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What we re not considering is that still exists a higher power above kang. (It was done on purpose with the scene of the Infinity Stone in Season One so we get lost with power scales) Kang says that the two Loki (One "Canon Loki" and a "Non Canon Loki") is the only solution besides the TVA. Have we ever consider why? Why only 2 Gods of mischief with this specific setting of opposite sex and one being from a "Canon Timeline" and the other not? May be because they can fool the higher power overwatching "Canon"/"Nexus"/"Fixed Points in time". We've not seen an explanation for these yet.
If they put the beyond verse theory like DC x marvel Only people From beyond verse can save on another Multiverse as those beyond verse are totally different from one another and in those reality the don't exist but in bigger reality they exist but different from one another so any action come from beyond verse people in another Multiverse the not supposed to happen action can be changed as that doesn't exist but in reality they both exist Like xmen is coming in mcu So after secret war we can see dc x marvel to save each other verse I don't know what I'm talking about 😂
I think they should have introduced Kang in one of the post credits scenes to Multiverse of Madness. It should have shown him in his palace observing the events of the movie. He looks at an image of Doctor Strange and says "This is the second time he’s messed with the multiverse." He then looks over at images of America Chavez and Wanda and says "Perhaps she’ll be useful to me." as it cuts to black. Then when the new Avengers meet him he’ll bring up the events of No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness as to why he must conquer the multiverse.
Yeah but Disney's dumb, cuz that's a better plot than about everything they've done recently bro they should pay your ass for a paragraph bring better than 4 marvel movies lol
I love this arc for Loki. On the one hand he recognizes that pruning timelines is what prevents Kangs from popping up but also recognizes that means killing trillions.
But are they really killing trillions of people on those branches? Wouldn’t you just be pruning their alternate reality and their “prime” individual still be alive? That’s the way I see it trying to help me understand that trillions are dying. Please debate me on this. Cause I really wanna understand your point of view but it this moment I’m not understanding it. Thank you.
@@DarthDesoloussee thats how I saw it to. The person was pruned along with their changes they caused and individuals that interacted or spiders out of those changes caused. Because the branched timeline appears to create just a part of a world associated with the branch according to the cartoon in season 1. So the original guy sticks on the sacred timeline and the variant jeans the other way. There is a small version built around them but it is only the people and places touched in some way by the variant. Thats how I thought of it.
@@occheermommy thank you for commenting on my post. There for a minute I thought I was the only one that thought that. They’re not necessarily chilling people, but just erasing, not killing, the branch timeline. The original people are still alive on the sacred timeline.. I have an unrelated theory for you, and if you would comment on it, I would appreciate it. Season two episode three we see Rivona leave the TVA handbook on the windowsill of a young Kang. Which altered his life. I went back and re-watched episode one season one and at the end of it. I found this little nugget of information that might be relevant now here is my theory and if you could comment on it, I would appreciate it. At the end of season, one episode one the Minutemen go back to 1858 to Salina Oklahoma and they found a stick in the ground for oil. They said it was from the early third millennia. I don’t believe Loki, Sylvie, put that there. But rather Kang “He who remains” put that there as a contingency plan. According to what I just watched on season two episode three, where Judge Ravonna Renslayer put the TVA handbook on the window sill where a young Victor Timely could find it. Here is the exact quote from that scene from season one episode one. Do you think we will revisit this site again in season two? What are your thoughts on this? MINUTEMAN: Time signature is early third millennium. Definitely anachronistic. Oil. I think some jackass found himself a time machine, came back here to get rich.
I love the idea that although Kang is a “villain”, what he is doing is actually kind of a necessary evil. It’s the idea of the ‘Trolley Problem’. He’s not cutting off ALL of the branched timelines, simply ones that create a nexus event that could potentially be a threat to not only him, but also the Multiverse.
@@HigherKaiju Yes, free will should exist, but with that carries the consequence of a Multiversal War. Any Kang that won the war would obviously choose their timeline to be the sacred timeline. HWR is trying to stop the war which will lead to countless timelines and lives being erased anyways. Which is why I say what he is doing is kind of a necessary evil. Loki even realizes this, Ant-Man realized it. They understand that there needs to be someone and/or something to prevent this war from happening.
@@djodyssey99 There's a possibility the incursions are being caused by the Loom. After all, it's forcing them all together and only letting one remain.
@@ClockworkGearhead But there’s not only one timeline, there’s one sacred timeline, but there are other branched timelines. Incursions were happening because the variant Kangs would travel to different timelines and take over those universes. The TVA prunes timelines that are deemed a threat and branch off too far from the sacred timeline.
I like this. The fact that Spider-Man has his own specific group/department kind of places a perceived larger importance on him as a character...which if you read comics it makes sense. There are a lot of characters whose stories include and change a lot just from a Spider-Man existing
Spidey literally talked Franklin Richards out of doing some pretty bad stuff. Franklin even as a child is not only one of the smartest and most potentially powerful (Mr. Fantastic did make sure not to tell his son he’s basically god) characters in marvel, he also essentially lives beyond time
I think it’s wild how little ol’ Loki is actually achieving *GLORIOUS PURPOSE* .. the one who everyone doubted. The one who always lost in the worst of way especially when he thought he had a one up. The only person(besides Kang) that actually seen the future and lived to tell it. Might it be possible to say he possess a type of cosmic knowledge now?
I always thought there was something about Loki people didn't see when I realized he was right about Thor not being fit to be king in the 1st Thor movie. Thor even admitted this himself to Oden at the end of the movie.
I mean loki in every time line was ment to be evil to help make the unity of heroes like new York City he's destined to do bad the loki and slyvi who broke away and was on the run kinda endded up kkilling kang creating this havoc and mayhem lol loki will be loki even if they didn't mean too. Our loki we watching might end up doing worse by mistake kinda doing what loki does best
The problem with the "TVA is the only solution" narrative is that Kang could just prune other variants of himself (like Rick C137 on a mass murder spree to try to kill Rick Prime), but instead, he thinks the best option is to prune any timeline that has the potential of making a variant of him. The TVA tried to kill Sylvie, for example, when she has absolutely nothing to do with the Multiversal War.
Well that whole thing was because she ran away when she was arrested right. Also it could be part of HWR plan considering he knew she’d meet him at the end of time and said see you soon
@@CoryAndor They would have tried to kill her no matter what she or HWR did. They arrest people for crimes that don't exist and carry out executions for every sentence.
The reason is because variants are what cause other universes or timelines to pop up. Meaning thay all end up bring out another kang. It easier to deal with the variant when discovered then kang himself as a variant who is just as smart or conniving with all the technology at his disposal. Sure Sylvie has nothing to do with it, but her universe will bring out another kang making it have something to do with the multiversal war. Or even a another character which could cause an incursion that destroys both universes affected, or that the kang from the universe its affecting destroys hers before it happens. Also he cant just prune his own timeline cause then he ouldnt exist and there fore be able to prune variants of himself by erasing their timelines so that existence doesnt just collapse and end because of a war that would happen between his variants.
I think if the Loki teaming up with Kang theory is correct then dr strange will also be on team Kang because of Reed Richards saying Dr.Strange is the greatest threat to the multiverse. Would also be cool because Loki and Dr.Strange are both sorcerers.
The issue with heroes are they are selfish but can’t admit it. They will lay down their lives but only at a certain cost. Strange KNEW Tony wouldn’t die unless he didn’t know.. Spider-Man wanted to save everyone and lost everyone. Our heroes have this HUGE moral obligation… and unfortunately Kang doesn’t… and I think the MCU is going to be REALLY dark soon. It’s going to force heroes to pick a side and maybe fight friends or variants. And at the end you let the devil you know rule it all lol
Heroes having a moral obligation is part of what makes them not selfish. Kang is selfish, and will do anything to make sure *his* world survives according to *his* plan. He doesn't actually care about the people whose lives he's messing with.
The heros are selfish. We call it “the savior complex”. Kang is a mirror to all the heros hubris. Kang knows he’s evil and selfish, but he also recognizes that order cannot exist without chaos. Disrupting the fabric between life and death always leads to a an accelerated decay rate. We try to slow down entropy all the the time in chemistry, physics, and biology. There is always a cost, this is why informed consent is imperative. You have to know your odds before you throw the dice. Is it worth the cost? If it does, then roll the dice. The heros always only see the immediate reward, whereas the villains always see the end goal in sight before throwing the dice. Selfishness is a survival trait and So is altruism, but their must be a balance between extremes. Kang wasn’t always evil and neither was Thanos, but they became corrupted and choose to make “heroic” choices that lead to terrible outcomes. The difference between the hood guys and the bad guys is the bad ones must live with the devastating consequences all alone, with the weight of the fate of everyone and everything on their shoulders. Thanos was right to snap 1/3 the population because he knew that the Celestial would harvest Earth and beyond if he didn’t. He sacrificed his daughter that he truly loved in order to do it. You can’t say he didn’t love her because the immortality stone would have known. What did Thanos want after snapping? He wanted to be alone. HWR is what? Alone. What had Loki always been prior to his growth? Alone.
Theory time for you. One of the big themes of this show is closed loops (Loki's life resembling a loop, the TVA itself potentially being a loop, and Ouroboros is a loop). They will travel back in time to kidnap Victor Timely. They will do this because they need his aura to open the blast doors. Once they bring him to the TVA, his eyes will be opened and he'll be inspired. When he gets back to his own time, he will be inspired to create the TVA we know and eventually become "He who Remains". Thus a closed loop....
I’ve got no doubt that Victor Timely will be used to open the blast doors protecting the TVA from the Temporal Loom… which is unfortunate, because it’s been implied through Loki’s - ahem, *reassembly* and from season one of Loki that one’s Temporal Aura is representative of a singular instance of a person or object and does not persist across timelines. A space-time serial number, if you will. Which would mean that Victor Timely technically shouldn’t be able to be used to open the blast doors unless he 1) is enlightened by his brief TVA visit, 2) somehow winds up a couple thousand years past when he belongs (the original He Who Remains was a 23rd-century-something scientist), 3) “discovers” the multiverse, despite already knowing it exists, and 4) initiates and/or wins the Multiversal War and creates the TVA he visited in the past, which would presumably already have been destroyed if he could “discover” the Multiverse in step three. This seems a little roundabout for series two to play out to me, but what do I know?
Personally I would love if Loki becomes the new He Who Remains. Right now in his personal arch, he's finally let go of the desire to rule and wouldn't it be a lovely ending for him to end up "ruling" it all, but this time with the wisdom Oden wanted him to have.
If you leave a universe alone to be and do its own thing, eventually it will give rise to an entity that will try to conquer or destroy your universe. Each Kang makes the assumption that they must strike first to be sure their universe survives. Kang doesn't win or lose the multiversal war. He just stops it. But how can we be sure that the multiverse would have fallen apart? Seems like it is Kang himself making that happen with their preemptive attacks.
I think in time a universe will give rise to a Kang. But judging from the friendships that were formed, I don't believe that each one is inherently malevolent. It would take a certain type of Kang to upset the order and cause the remaining Kangs to begin a war.
I don’t think this is the case, ‘Kang’ is the reason for the war itself, yes, but he’s not the reason for the Incursions, the incursions happen due to the breaking of ‘absolute points’ in time, which are broken by individuals who veer out of their universes - physically or even their general influence (and therefore ‘exit the script’) & reenter either a new ‘script’ or their own in a position that now allows them to change how it is supposed to be fundamentally Think about the ‘exiting the script’ as a character walking off the page of one story & into another one & then back: that’s essentially like your character going to another story that you didn’t create & coming back with new information that you didn’t even create them to have, an then they use it in your script changing events in ways that even you can’t conceive aswell as having just come back from doing it in another story script aswell 😂 That’s what’s happening here; - The Universe is the script itself: Ordered & moulded in a specific way that allows it to function [kinda like the code in the matrix] - The Characters & their specific stories are the canon events/absolute points in time that are essentially the spine [support system] that holds the reality/universe [i.e The script] in the form it was designed in - The Variants/variations/anomalies are the result of individuals/life forms ‘touching the multiverse’ (I.e influencing things outside of their own universes) creating new universes/scripts which if left unchecked undoubtedly leads to the creation of realities which tamper with canon events/absolute points in time aka the spine of the universe, unbalancing/collapsing the ‘spine’ bringing the story out of the ‘scripts’ (the universe’s) control & ultimately causing the universe to (just like the characters) steer into eachother as a result of the scripts trying to correct themselves by following the trajectory of the characters influence So essentially the answer is to either destroy every single universe except one that operates on a sacred timeline (orchestrated events) in order to stop their being a multiverse with variations (that will eventually just cause the breaking of canon events in those multiverses ultimate causing incursions that threaten all of reality) or fuse every single universe into one creating the multiverse in universal form - meaning free will truly exists with no possibility of creating variantions/anomalies to begin with & further more no possibility of incursions as their is only one universe to begin with
If there was another way, wouldn’t He Who Remains have seen it? He’s witnessed all possible outcomes so if there was, he would know. I feel this chaos unfolding in the whole new saga is the next step in his plan
Why would you think a fascist genocidal tyrant might have a good point? He made the world he can live with and then told people it was the only one that should exist.
he who remains never ended the multiversal war he only isolated the 616 universe timeline and protected his univer from the ongoing incursions that's been happening.
@@tottorkelvingeorge5228 Prolonging his survival, that’s why he who remains gave Loki a choice between taking over TVA or dealing with Kangs. Kang must be eradicated, Sylvie made the right choice.
I think that all the times we see Kang, we are going backwards in the timeline of He Who Remains. His death, the resolve of Kang the Conqueror in the Quantum Realm, the Kang Arena, Kang (Victor Timely) in Loki S2, the Kang Dynasty, etc… It’s an intriguing way of framing his story. I’m sure my mind will be blown by the end (or beginning?) of it all.
No but its the truth, doctor who did it great he was moving forward in time and the love of his life his wife was moving backwards. They had good writers in the day. @@HigherKaiju
I theorize that the only reason why there was only one possible outcome the avengers won against thanos was because in every other possibility the TVA showed up and pruned the timeline
i mean we may have already seen a small hint at the "other way" when it comes to preventing the destruction of whole timelines. In Loki S1 towards the end when HWR is explaining his backstory, he at one point shows us how exactly universes are "stacked" together. Maybe the way to allow these branches to thrive is to "prune" them, but then place them "on their own tier". Basically taking the branch reality and giving it it's own "pot". Makes a lot of sense if you also think of how they use a lot of horticulture terminology when it comes to the TVA
I wonder if it’s actually two factions of Kang variants. Individuals that come from a singular timeline and want stability versus Kang variants that are the direct result of time travel/incursion events and need multiversal chaos to even exist.
Finally is someone pointing out the similarities between Miss Minutes and Layla. I‘ve been noticing it the first time seeing Across the Spiderverse, but I was so sad that no one on TH-cam was picking up on that 😢
Too bad that Leya made an appearance in the post-credit scene of Into the Spider-Verse (2018) and that her character has existed since the 80s. Which makes the similarities just a coincidence.
The other way is to kill the kang variants before they discover the multiverse or ensure they aren't born in the first place without destroying a timeline. (Which would have ramifications into itself) kang is wrong. The "sacred timeline" is still a timeline where kang exists. It's like ricks central finite curve. The problem is Kang not Kang's solution to the problem of himself.
this guy gets it. kang presumes he must live as his baseline and then enacts a plan that best serves his own survival. the TVA has to stop Kings existence. Stop the one to save the many.
I think it strange to curtail someone's life when they've done nothing wrong yet. The Kangs were peaceful towards one another at first. Only certain Kangs saw others as threats. And there's no problem if there's just one existing Kang. He can't start a war against timelines and Kangs that don't exist.
That's why he needs erasing from existence, like all of him. But his ego would never allow all versions of him to die. But that would be the fairer way for all existence to just exist without him ruining everything.
I think a thing we're forgetting is about Infinity Ultron* from What If, he might be the biggest threat right now to reality, and pruning a timeline in which he might be running around, making sure he's there and not between multiverses like he was once, might be another way to save reality itself.
The fact that The Watcher exists and can see the multiverse, timelines and all, already means Kang failed and his failure isn't a consequence on the bigger picture.
I do think something like a problems with Kangs is that they are too afraid of themselves, and by the prisoner's dilemma don't trust each other not to turn on each other. There is going to have to be something like trust. Via comics I think a younger Kang can be the only thing to reign himself in.
Ok so hear me out on this one... what if the reason why we don't see X:Men running around every universe is that, Kang had WAY too much trouble with them than he should have so they simply would not fit the "Narrative". It could be that the X:Men at some point over powered and won vs Kang sending him further along his path, just as Scott Lang did in Quantum Mania.
I’ve had the same theory: the X-Men WERE in the MCU, but Kang pruned them. As a result, the MCU we know has been a lie all along and was a twisted timeline from beginning.
@jossmircruz how's he going to prune them only from the MCU? It's not selective. It would seem more plausible that he used Scarlet Witch to say "No more mutants".
@@Eireternal i think we’ve passed the time for them to use that bit from the comics. Unless they show that ir already happened in a previous version of the timeline.
The timelines being on repeat and slightly different makes me think of The Wheel of Time and how each cycle is a bit different but always set up the next cycle at the end.
And now the answer to it all is LOKI creating yggdrasil. He is now the anchor of the multiverse allowing free will (branching of new universes) without the risk of incursions.
I would think his way is probably the most efficient way to do it. So yes I would definitely think there might be another way. That way might be just to easy to mess up and Kang thinks it’s not worth the risk.
3 questions! 1. What is Alioth? like how did Kang make it or catch it? 2. Universe & Timelines the same thing? How? 3. How did Kang start? I see the Victor Timely scene but that doesn’t explain his tech or his position outside of time?
Allioth was created from the remnants of millions of incursions happening all at once. He Who Remains has no direct relation to Allioth, it just uses it to destroy what remains of pruned timelines. Universes and timelines, despite the MCU seeming to use the terms interchangeably, are not the same. As an example, say that I decide to go to Best Buy on Sunday to buy a video game. There is a possibility that a branching timeline (Timeline B) can spawn, and in this timeline has me go to Gamestop instead of Best Buy. If Timeline B diverges enough from Timeline A to form its own universal properties, then another universe is born. So, in essence, all universes are different timelines, but not all timelines are different universes. Endgame is another example. The Quantum Tunnel moved the Avengers across timelines within the same universe, and because Cap returned all of the stones, those timelines did not diverge too much. It's possible that universes did spawn, but either way, the changes weren't a threat to the TVA, unlike 2012 Loki's escape from New York.
I'm not sure if this has been pointed out yet. But, throughout S1, Loki was shown to recognize deception since Loki himself is a master of deceit. By the end of S1, when Loki meets He Who Remains, it seems that Loki is really scared of what He Who Remains was saying. It's as if Loki himself cannot find a single deception in He Who Remains' words. So now, in S2, Loki is doing everything to put a stop on He Who Remains (once he emerges again).
This hidden message of season 2 seems to be order and chaos. Chaos being loki. Mobius being order. I think he had no reason to doubt kang because he saw what he did to infinity stones and how he predicted everything. While sylie was rage enduced
@@HigherKaiju He didn't do anything to the Infinity Stones. It's a quality of the stones they only work in their own universe. They simply didn't explain it.
I think I understood all of that. The one sticking point for me is not really seeing a reason why (or even how) all those Kang variants could arrive at any sort of common goal. Multiversal branches left unmonitored result in incursions, so surely everyone one of them is in pursuit of their own interests? They should all want/need to kill each other on sight. 🤔
That's the entire point. They do want to do that, but they also recognize that killing each other is risky. It's mutually assured destruction. If the Kang's start fighting each other, they all could die. This is where we are at right now in the story. They have an uneasy truce. But, the truce falls apart and results in a war between the Kang's that if not stopped would destroy everything. This is what He Who Remains stopped in the past and Kang the conqueror in Antman foresees and wants to do, which is why there is speculation that the Kang variant in Antman is a younger He Who Remains who hasn't yet created the TVA and stopped the war yet (remember timey whimey stuff, could be same person, just a different point in his own life, even though living at the same "time". This is also possibly why Kang says "see you soon" right before dying. Not simply that they will see his variants, but that if Sylvie kills him, a younger version of himself will just end up right back at the end point in time and "reset" everything. That him becoming He Who Remains is part of a loop in time that keeps repeating itself.
It is a possibility, but something to consider with this theory of yours. As you stated Kang is a multiversal "traveler," meaning he just passes through like a tourist, as opposed to The Watcher who observes everything within the multiverse. He has seen everything that has happened, will happen, and ever could. So I'd say yeah Kang is aware of The Watchers existence, but since The Watcher is just an observer, Kang doesn't see him as any type of threat.
I think Kang travels within the multiverse, while the Watcher is on the outside looking in. Maybe he could become aware if the layers between were worn down.
You’re asking because in what if we see ultron who seems less powerful than kang find the watcher. Here’s my theory. Kangs found the watcher also and won against him or is preparing to fight him but isn’t ready to without a strategy. His palace where he remains looks a lot like the watchers space he fights ultron in. It’s very purple and magic is usable there. I could be wrong and totally mistaken but I came to your question as well when thinking about what if. what if also comes after lokis show in the timeline so maybe Kang when he notices something new and mentions they passed the threshold was when in what if the watcher is discovered. Maybe Kang was looking for him or trying to see what would happen if he found the watcher without doing it himself allowing ultron to be a crash dummy to know what avengers he’d be up against when facing the watcher himself. The watcher can be animated like the spider verse but I’ve heard with the watcher he’s connected to his versions all at once. So again Kang could be coming after the watcher in the upcoming movies. That’s my theory and would make Kang a better story later on. Watcher broke his oath like doctor strange and we don’t really know what’s right from wrong. I’d like to see a human being from earth fight all these crazy entities marvel has because why not. It’s all totally unhinged and we don’t even know evil is just like in the real world we live in now. It’d be nice to see Kang end up destroying everything and seeing some humility in his own quest for power and knowledge.
Bro, your theories/ way you explain it, is the only reason i keep watching and hooked on the MCU content because you make it more interesting than the content itself
It’s possible Kang may have missed something. In Loki season 2 finale, Kang for the first time couldn’t tell what’s going happen next. I’m thinking somehow someone or something broke the time loop. I’m guessing instead of time going in loop it’ll keep on moving forward. Until the ultimate end.
What if Quantumania's Kang The Conqueror wasn't killed in the end of the movie, he's been sent to the end of time instead (that's why TVA can't detect his temporal aura, it's out of their reach and they assume he's dead), Renslayer sees its arrival on that purple light by the end of Loki season 2 and he will convince her to be his army's general on the war. That is the part of his story when he will use Alioth to consume all the other universes and stablish the Sacred Timeline, take back the TVA and get back to prune possible branches. Nothing has ever been out of his plans. Ouroboros, the cicle starts again...
I honestly consider the archno verse a hidden sun network under the existing multiverse. Like an unintended Tor network, hence they can ride their own protocols without trending on the path of standard multiverse avoiding Kangs immediate path.
Maybe I’m overlooking some obvious flaw in this logic but why can’t the TVA’s mission be to hunt ONLY Kang variants to prevent the multiversal war without destroying entire universes?
If Loki is able to prevent Ravonna from giving Victor Timely the TVA handbook in the 1890s, I'm pretty sure he never actually becomes Kang. He Who Remains creates himself (and all of his variants) by trying to ensure that he can save the multiverse from himself. So the first and best solution to stopping any and all versions of Kang is to prevent that TVA handbook from going through that window. Loki can now timeslip both outside and inside the TVA at will. He has the equivalent power of season 1 finale HWR, except it's naturally occurring, not preprogrammed tech. I think he can rewrite the story so that HWR's failsafe never happens, but the TVA still exists, with him and the squad in charge. In my POV, OB would be able to create whatever tech is necessary to prevent another Kang from ever coming into existence, particularly with Loki's power to essentially rewrite time by experiencing all possible pasts and futures and ensuring victory through trial and error (which I think is what we'll see him do in the finale to prevent the end of everything--except it will actually result in simply rebooting the TVA with Kang in charge). (I don't think it's going to go down this way for obvious storytelling reasons... hard to have a Kang Dynasty movie if Kang doesn't exist anymore. But this is a theory I think is *possible* within the constraints of the story as it is being told.)
Babbel is genius! Selling the idea of learning a new language that you could otherwise do for free, and then making you do the work of actually learning it. Then charging you for the work you've done. Genius!
Every time I see He Who Remains I get shivers. Johnathan Majors is plays this so perfectly with such emotion. I can feel the pain that he has gone through. 16:38
Has anybody reviewed that Mobius said to Loki in S1 about the the TVA something like "that side over there is like a bunch of nightmares." And now... in S2, Agent 10 said to Mobius, "wake up, this isn't real, WAKE UP! None of this is real!" Is the TVA place more like a Matrix realm? Where real and created cannot be distinguished unless the Temporal Aura picture is taken, to determine if the person is real or sort-of-generated?
No he isn’t. Why does the multiverse have to “over load” or “collide into each other”. The hero’s need to find a way they exist independently. And Loki will lead a new variation of the TVA ensuring that it stays in order. Fulfilling his “you are made to be ruled”… a happy ending for Loki
At 17:30 the chain of logic for the absolute point in time had nothing to do with Dormammu consuming the universe... it had to do with the creation of a paradox in which he would never have sought to master the mystic arts if not for her death (the same way in 616 he wouldn't have sought the mystic arts if not for losing function in his hands), thus he would never have become keeper of the time stone and been able to go back in time. It's the paradox that destroys the universe, not dormmamu... That was made pretty clear in the episode, but just thought you should know!
i feel like the Victor Timely coming in loki is the same Kang we also saw in Ant-man. He mentions seeing a broken timeline. We know, loki needs a Kang to save the timeline. Maybe they'll pull timely into the tva that he hadnt created yet, then he gets so scared that it actually makes him become the Kang and he who remains that we know.
"A TVA that he hasn't created yet" doesn't exist and can not exisit in MCU though. TVA is in the Quantum Realm, and it is Independent of all time line. There is only 1 TVA total, not 1 TVA per universe. When Loki was Time Slipping, he isn't traveling to TVA of another Time line, he was merely traveling into the Past and Future of the Same TVA.
I’ve been watching your videos for years, and this is a first: you finally broke my brain! 🤯 Lol! The connection to the spiderverse, and the TVA….whew! 👏
The sad thing is, the Marvel multiverse (and DC film universe) may have (I think has) done the concept a disservice. Man I loved those early Flash comics in which Barry Allen meets Jay Garrick. No universe ending danger. Just the fun of these 2 heroes meeting each other.
Do you think this series, and Loki's story as a whole. is going towards Loki taking over the TVA, or a TVA like entity, to fulfill his first ambitions of becoming the god/ruler of something, but now he understand the weight of his title because of the unorthodox heroes journey he's been on.
Actually Miles' equivalent to Uncle Ben dying was Uncle Aaron dying. His dad dying would be the equivalent to Captain Stacy dying in the Amazing Spider-Man.
But Miles’ future isn’t written yet. In the meta sense and the metaphorical. His spider bite came from another reality. And when Mumbaihattan started falling apart, that wasn’t an incursion. It was spot attacking.
@@Bman32xThat's beside the point. The death of Uncle Aaron is his major cannon event that pushed him to become Spiderman. Every Spiderman has a captain die. The only thing Miles has the others don't is being bit by a spider from an alternate universe and seeing the Peter Parker of his world die just like Gwen
@@DEEliot-ky9cl Well technically, Uncle Aaron didn't push Miles to become Spiderman. Peter's death gave him that push, and it was only after hearing his father's speech that Miles gained control over his powers.
What I don't understand is how Hunter X-5 is found on the Sacred Timeline as an Actor Brad Wolf. I would not be as confused if they found him on another timeline, but it clearly stated the Sacred Time line which is the time line that the TVA was working to save. So why was X-5 there and able to just exist as a person? Wouldn't that then make it a non Sacred timeline branch?
He was on the sacred timeline because he knew of the mass attack on the branches by the splinter group of the TVA. He stayed on the sacred timeline insuring he wouldn't be pruned. before any MCU stuff happened so he could be "normal".
He's on the sacred timeline because that modified temped allowed it. He didn't set off a smoke flare, because time is not yet written as time is released. So he can go on it without it creating a branch or nexus due to his existence.
@@ked49 no... Brad is a varient of someone on the sacred timeline. Him living on the sacred timeline doesn't mean he has to kill anyone. Since his branch exists now, the timeline he's on doesn't matter. So if he's on the sacred timeline, he's creating branches every choice he makes. Yet without pruning, he can live without the fear of his specific timline getting crushed
Am I the only one that doesn't see the destruction of a whole universe as something "bad"? Like, if you kill one person, his family and etc., will be sad and will remember him, but if you destroy the whole universe nobody will even be alive to remember or suffer😂
Ryan. He was absolutely right. This is the deepest and best explanation I have heard. I wish I could give two thumbs up. Thank you. Now this solidifies the fact that they have to keep Jonathan Majors. MCU can bring in Doom if they want, but they have to complete this saga. I think pivoting will kill them.
another reason why kang and he who remains is the same variant: In the most recent ant man film Kang said that he will leave our universe alone, and what did he who remains do? He made it the main universe.
Its not that Kang's way is the only way...its just...it actually IS the only way. Every single possibility is inevitable and will always follow its correct path. So it's not really "Kang's Way" it actually just is "The Only Way". There is only 1 option.
I love the idea that spider-man is has a major impact on the multiverse and because of that secretly “he who remains “ task Miguel O’Hara with structuring out the multiverse
I honestly love how Spider-Verse straight goes. "This blue line here the Multiverse. But these other universes are the Spider-Verse." The idea to have Multi Layered Multiverses is extremely amazing idea and lets u have MCU have two designations. 199999 for everyone one else but in their Multiverse, 616.
These marvel movies and shows like loki are such a turn in this whole franchise. Every marvel movie before was great. It was fun and had a pretty straight foward event. Villains. Heroes defeat villains. Pretty cut clear. But after thanos and wandavision and now LOKI. These are such great steps I dont think marvel will ever top these moments ever again
I'm starting to wonder why Kang just didn't prune his counterparts rather than just nuking every alternate reality he was in from existing, and then I started to think... maybe that's his Canon Event.
16:55 This makes perfect sense after Loki episode 3, she could be a version of Miss Minutes who managed to get herself a real body it’s like she wanted
What if "He Who Remains" was actually that Kang that Ant-Man defeated? And it was just before "He Who Remains" (HWR) became that person? He did say he was dubbed many names, one being "conqueror". They both had the same vision and seemed like they went about it the same way. What if Sylvie killing HWR allowed Ant-Man to do what he did or allowed the Kangs to do what they did and banish him altering his timeline? It's just very strange they are so similar in motive and method.
Everyone gets so caught up on all the lives destroyed when the branch realities are destroyed, but i mean technically there is a timeline where these problems didn't happen and timelines where they didn't get killed. So even though they were destroyed, they aren't ever really destroyed. It's just that their ability to interact with our current timeline has been eliminated.
Yesss at least you get it Ryan, bro over at newrockstars thinks dox just pruned earth on all those branches and everyone in the comments is like no bro, she deleted a timeline, that’s an entire universe deleted, multiple times, quadrillions of lives lost
Superpowers don't just mean you can shoot laser with super strength. A super power is someone or something with the power to make a difference, wether its war, intellect, or resources. Captain America is just a super strong man and he put the fists on Kang too
I think this all leads to Loki as Avenger Prime. He will replace Kang, have multiversal Avengers, and use the TVA, with the help of his TVA friends, for good so as to not trigger another Kang event.
This is actually how miles morales is going to transcend into the live action movies. Im excited for all thats coming from marvel. Especially with the changes that are being made
He wasn't right. He created a path through a universe that HE could live with. That suited HIS goals. That necessitated HIS governance. HE is the problem. ALL of him. Only one creature ever need be 'pruned' from any timeline and that is KANG himself. You can't be the cause and solution of the problem
Being a hero is not about sacrifice it's about effort trying to save everything and everyone is the point, sometimes failing is the story that keeps us coming back.
I recall in Doctor Who, the Doctor (10th or 11th) mentions fixed moments in time, things he cannot change, where other events can be changed as they dont make a strong impact in the timeline.
The multiverse is basically made out of threads which are various timelines. In order to strengthen them they need to be woven together into a textile of some sort.
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Bro can you explain loki ep using dark web series
hi ryan
hey Ryan where does Doctor Doom fit in all of this?
What we re not considering is that still exists a higher power above kang. (It was done on purpose with the scene of the Infinity Stone in Season One so we get lost with power scales)
Kang says that the two Loki (One "Canon Loki" and a "Non Canon Loki") is the only solution besides the TVA. Have we ever consider why? Why only 2 Gods of mischief with this specific setting of opposite sex and one being from a "Canon Timeline" and the other not?
May be because they can fool the higher power overwatching "Canon"/"Nexus"/"Fixed Points in time".
We've not seen an explanation for these yet.
Duolingo is angry
This is the best part of the story, when you have no clue how the heroes can save the day.
you know what's even better. They didn't save the day.
Amen
I’ll give you a hint. The writers don’t either
Deadpool 3?
If they put the beyond verse theory like DC x marvel
Only people From beyond verse can save on another Multiverse as those beyond verse are totally different from one another and in those reality the don't exist but in bigger reality they exist but different from one another so any action come from beyond verse people in another Multiverse the not supposed to happen action can be changed as that doesn't exist but in reality they both exist
Like xmen is coming in mcu
So after secret war we can see dc x marvel to save each other verse
I don't know what I'm talking about 😂
I think they should have introduced Kang in one of the post credits scenes to Multiverse of Madness. It should have shown him in his palace observing the events of the movie. He looks at an image of Doctor Strange and says "This is the second time he’s messed with the multiverse." He then looks over at images of America Chavez and Wanda and says "Perhaps she’ll be useful to me." as it cuts to black. Then when the new Avengers meet him he’ll bring up the events of No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness as to why he must conquer the multiverse.
Yeah but Disney's dumb, cuz that's a better plot than about everything they've done recently bro they should pay your ass for a paragraph bring better than 4 marvel movies lol
Depends which Kang, since Kevin said that the death of He Who remains allowed SpiderMan no way home and Multiverse of madness to happen
This plot Kinda reminds me of the thanos post credit scenes
That would change the loki show or delete it all together
Kang ain’t that kind of multiverse. And dr strange never touched that type of multiverse
Kang and Thanos are the protagonists in MCU, they're trying their best to stop MCU to destroyoing itself
The only way to save the MCU is to cast a black Brie Larson in every role
@@BarryBerryBarrythat was a good chuckle lol
@Drumnedwin7 Not the hero the people asked for but the one they deserve
Even Thanos will try to stop Kang but he'll fail to stop him ending up dusting.
@@BarryBerryBarryyou do know she wasn’t carol Danvers in DSMOM in that timeline Maria rambeau turned into captain marvel instead of Danvers
I love this arc for Loki. On the one hand he recognizes that pruning timelines is what prevents Kangs from popping up but also recognizes that means killing trillions.
which means people are going to die anyway and that's a regular weekday
But are they really killing trillions of people on those branches? Wouldn’t you just be pruning their alternate reality and their “prime” individual still be alive? That’s the way I see it trying to help me understand that trillions are dying. Please debate me on this. Cause I really wanna understand your point of view but it this moment I’m not understanding it. Thank you.
@@DarthDesolouswhat if some people only exist in one timeline?
@@DarthDesoloussee thats how I saw it to. The person was pruned along with their changes they caused and individuals that interacted or spiders out of those changes caused. Because the branched timeline appears to create just a part of a world associated with the branch according to the cartoon in season 1. So the original guy sticks on the sacred timeline and the variant jeans the other way. There is a small version built around them but it is only the people and places touched in some way by the variant. Thats how I thought of it.
@@occheermommy thank you for commenting on my post. There for a minute I thought I was the only one that thought that. They’re not necessarily chilling people, but just erasing, not killing, the branch timeline. The original people are still alive on the sacred timeline.. I have an unrelated theory for you, and if you would comment on it, I would appreciate it. Season two episode three we see Rivona leave the TVA handbook on the windowsill of a young Kang. Which altered his life. I went back and re-watched episode one season one and at the end of it. I found this little nugget of information that might be relevant now here is my theory and if you could comment on it, I would appreciate it.
At the end of season, one episode one the Minutemen go back to 1858 to Salina Oklahoma and they found a stick in the ground for oil. They said it was from the early third millennia. I don’t believe Loki, Sylvie, put that there. But rather Kang “He who remains” put that there as a contingency plan. According to what I just watched on season two episode three, where Judge Ravonna Renslayer put the TVA handbook on the window sill where a young Victor Timely could find it. Here is the exact quote from that scene from season one episode one. Do you think we will revisit this site again in season two? What are your thoughts on this?
MINUTEMAN: Time signature is early third millennium. Definitely anachronistic. Oil. I think some jackass found himself a time machine, came back here to get rich.
I love the idea that although Kang is a “villain”, what he is doing is actually kind of a necessary evil. It’s the idea of the ‘Trolley Problem’. He’s not cutting off ALL of the branched timelines, simply ones that create a nexus event that could potentially be a threat to not only him, but also the Multiverse.
It’s not necessary free will should exist he just favored his timeline so it seems like the right thing
@@HigherKaiju Yes, free will should exist, but with that carries the consequence of a Multiversal War. Any Kang that won the war would obviously choose their timeline to be the sacred timeline. HWR is trying to stop the war which will lead to countless timelines and lives being erased anyways. Which is why I say what he is doing is kind of a necessary evil. Loki even realizes this, Ant-Man realized it. They understand that there needs to be someone and/or something to prevent this war from happening.
Well, that's what _he_ says and that's the system _he_ put into place, anyway.
@@djodyssey99 There's a possibility the incursions are being caused by the Loom. After all, it's forcing them all together and only letting one remain.
@@ClockworkGearhead But there’s not only one timeline, there’s one sacred timeline, but there are other branched timelines. Incursions were happening because the variant Kangs would travel to different timelines and take over those universes. The TVA prunes timelines that are deemed a threat and branch off too far from the sacred timeline.
I like this. The fact that Spider-Man has his own specific group/department kind of places a perceived larger importance on him as a character...which if you read comics it makes sense. There are a lot of characters whose stories include and change a lot just from a Spider-Man existing
Doesn't loki eat a hotdog with spiderman. He is just the most down to earth guy ever.
Spidey literally talked Franklin Richards out of doing some pretty bad stuff. Franklin even as a child is not only one of the smartest and most potentially powerful (Mr. Fantastic did make sure not to tell his son he’s basically god) characters in marvel, he also essentially lives beyond time
I think it’s wild how little ol’ Loki is actually achieving *GLORIOUS PURPOSE* .. the one who everyone doubted. The one who always lost in the worst of way especially when he thought he had a one up. The only person(besides Kang) that actually seen the future and lived to tell it. Might it be possible to say he possess a type of cosmic knowledge now?
I always thought there was something about Loki people didn't see when I realized he was right about Thor not being fit to be king in the 1st Thor movie. Thor even admitted this himself to Oden at the end of the movie.
I mean loki in every time line was ment to be evil to help make the unity of heroes like new York City he's destined to do bad the loki and slyvi who broke away and was on the run kinda endded up kkilling kang creating this havoc and mayhem lol loki will be loki even if they didn't mean too. Our loki we watching might end up doing worse by mistake kinda doing what loki does best
@@deveous8629 sylvi was so anoying like it was not loki who messed up it was sylvi
I love that Loki got an upgrade in the MCU, he's a great character that deserves to be more than the butt of every joke.
I love that Loki got an upgrade in the MCU, he's a great character that deserves to be more than the butt of every joke.
The problem with the "TVA is the only solution" narrative is that Kang could just prune other variants of himself (like Rick C137 on a mass murder spree to try to kill Rick Prime), but instead, he thinks the best option is to prune any timeline that has the potential of making a variant of him. The TVA tried to kill Sylvie, for example, when she has absolutely nothing to do with the Multiversal War.
Well that whole thing was because she ran away when she was arrested right. Also it could be part of HWR plan considering he knew she’d meet him at the end of time and said see you soon
Still doesn't stop the incursions that occur with or without Kang variants, right?
@@CoryAndor They would have tried to kill her no matter what she or HWR did. They arrest people for crimes that don't exist and carry out executions for every sentence.
@@vishnutej.n.k2241 That's true, but Incursions unrelated to Kang are also unrelated to the Multiversal War, which the TVA was created to stop.
The reason is because variants are what cause other universes or timelines to pop up. Meaning thay all end up bring out another kang. It easier to deal with the variant when discovered then kang himself as a variant who is just as smart or conniving with all the technology at his disposal. Sure Sylvie has nothing to do with it, but her universe will bring out another kang making it have something to do with the multiversal war. Or even a another character which could cause an incursion that destroys both universes affected, or that the kang from the universe its affecting destroys hers before it happens. Also he cant just prune his own timeline cause then he ouldnt exist and there fore be able to prune variants of himself by erasing their timelines so that existence doesnt just collapse and end because of a war that would happen between his variants.
I think if the Loki teaming up with Kang theory is correct then dr strange will also be on team Kang because of Reed Richards saying Dr.Strange is the greatest threat to the multiverse. Would also be cool because Loki and Dr.Strange are both sorcerers.
The issue with heroes are they are selfish but can’t admit it. They will lay down their lives but only at a certain cost. Strange KNEW Tony wouldn’t die unless he didn’t know.. Spider-Man wanted to save everyone and lost everyone. Our heroes have this HUGE moral obligation… and unfortunately Kang doesn’t… and I think the MCU is going to be REALLY dark soon. It’s going to force heroes to pick a side and maybe fight friends or variants. And at the end you let the devil you know rule it all lol
Heroes having a moral obligation is part of what makes them not selfish. Kang is selfish, and will do anything to make sure *his* world survives according to *his* plan. He doesn't actually care about the people whose lives he's messing with.
The heros are selfish. We call it “the savior complex”. Kang is a mirror to all the heros hubris. Kang knows he’s evil and selfish, but he also recognizes that order cannot exist without chaos. Disrupting the fabric between life and death always leads to a an accelerated decay rate. We try to slow down entropy all the the time in chemistry, physics, and biology. There is always a cost, this is why informed consent is imperative. You have to know your odds before you throw the dice. Is it worth the cost? If it does, then roll the dice. The heros always only see the immediate reward, whereas the villains always see the end goal in sight before throwing the dice. Selfishness is a survival trait and So is altruism, but their must be a balance between extremes. Kang wasn’t always evil and neither was Thanos, but they became corrupted and choose to make “heroic” choices that lead to terrible outcomes. The difference between the hood guys and the bad guys is the bad ones must live with the devastating consequences all alone, with the weight of the fate of everyone and everything on their shoulders. Thanos was right to snap 1/3 the population because he knew that the Celestial would harvest Earth and beyond if he didn’t. He sacrificed his daughter that he truly loved in order to do it. You can’t say he didn’t love her because the immortality stone would have known. What did Thanos want after snapping? He wanted to be alone. HWR is what? Alone. What had Loki always been prior to his growth? Alone.
Theory time for you. One of the big themes of this show is closed loops (Loki's life resembling a loop, the TVA itself potentially being a loop, and Ouroboros is a loop). They will travel back in time to kidnap Victor Timely. They will do this because they need his aura to open the blast doors. Once they bring him to the TVA, his eyes will be opened and he'll be inspired. When he gets back to his own time, he will be inspired to create the TVA we know and eventually become "He who Remains". Thus a closed loop....
Loki's closed loop is a character failure in Season 1. Breaking closed loops and doing things differently is the point of his arc.
@@MrBazBake explain Ouroboros being a character... You do know what an Ouroboros is correct?
I could see the show going in that direction
Don’t forget Mobious means a loop also
I’ve got no doubt that Victor Timely will be used to open the blast doors protecting the TVA from the Temporal Loom… which is unfortunate, because it’s been implied through Loki’s - ahem, *reassembly* and from season one of Loki that one’s Temporal Aura is representative of a singular instance of a person or object and does not persist across timelines. A space-time serial number, if you will. Which would mean that Victor Timely technically shouldn’t be able to be used to open the blast doors unless he 1) is enlightened by his brief TVA visit, 2) somehow winds up a couple thousand years past when he belongs (the original He Who Remains was a 23rd-century-something scientist), 3) “discovers” the multiverse, despite already knowing it exists, and 4) initiates and/or wins the Multiversal War and creates the TVA he visited in the past, which would presumably already have been destroyed if he could “discover” the Multiverse in step three.
This seems a little roundabout for series two to play out to me, but what do I know?
Personally I would love if Loki becomes the new He Who Remains. Right now in his personal arch, he's finally let go of the desire to rule and wouldn't it be a lovely ending for him to end up "ruling" it all, but this time with the wisdom Oden wanted him to have.
This comment aged well
This aged like fine wine 😂
If you leave a universe alone to be and do its own thing, eventually it will give rise to an entity that will try to conquer or destroy your universe. Each Kang makes the assumption that they must strike first to be sure their universe survives. Kang doesn't win or lose the multiversal war. He just stops it. But how can we be sure that the multiverse would have fallen apart? Seems like it is Kang himself making that happen with their preemptive attacks.
I think in time a universe will give rise to a Kang. But judging from the friendships that were formed, I don't believe that each one is inherently malevolent. It would take a certain type of Kang to upset the order and cause the remaining Kangs to begin a war.
I don’t think this is the case, ‘Kang’ is the reason for the war itself, yes, but he’s not the reason for the Incursions, the incursions happen due to the breaking of ‘absolute points’ in time, which are broken by individuals who veer out of their universes - physically or even their general influence (and therefore ‘exit the script’) & reenter either a new ‘script’ or their own in a position that now allows them to change how it is supposed to be fundamentally
Think about the ‘exiting the script’ as a character walking off the page of one story & into another one & then back: that’s essentially like your character going to another story that you didn’t create & coming back with new information that you didn’t even create them to have, an then they use it in your script changing events in ways that even you can’t conceive aswell as having just come back from doing it in another story script aswell 😂
That’s what’s happening here;
- The Universe is the script itself: Ordered & moulded in a specific way that allows it to function [kinda like the code in the matrix]
- The Characters & their specific stories are the canon events/absolute points in time that are essentially the spine [support system] that holds the reality/universe [i.e The script] in the form it was designed in
- The Variants/variations/anomalies are the result of individuals/life forms ‘touching the multiverse’ (I.e influencing things outside of their own universes) creating new universes/scripts which if left unchecked undoubtedly leads to the creation of realities which tamper with canon events/absolute points in time aka the spine of the universe, unbalancing/collapsing the ‘spine’ bringing the story out of the ‘scripts’ (the universe’s) control & ultimately causing the universe to (just like the characters) steer into eachother as a result of the scripts trying to correct themselves by following the trajectory of the characters influence
So essentially the answer is to either destroy every single universe except one that operates on a sacred timeline (orchestrated events) in order to stop their being a multiverse with variations (that will eventually just cause the breaking of canon events in those multiverses ultimate causing incursions that threaten all of reality) or fuse every single universe into one creating the multiverse in universal form - meaning free will truly exists with no possibility of creating variantions/anomalies to begin with & further more no possibility of incursions as their is only one universe to begin with
If there was another way, wouldn’t He Who Remains have seen it? He’s witnessed all possible outcomes so if there was, he would know. I feel this chaos unfolding in the whole new saga is the next step in his plan
He also wants to survive so his only resolution for his survival is to remain in charge.
Why would you think a fascist genocidal tyrant might have a good point?
He made the world he can live with and then told people it was the only one that should exist.
he who remains never ended the multiversal war he only isolated the 616 universe timeline and protected his univer from the ongoing incursions that's been happening.
@@tottorkelvingeorge5228 Prolonging his survival, that’s why he who remains gave Loki a choice between taking over TVA or dealing with Kangs. Kang must be eradicated, Sylvie made the right choice.
I think its because he is part of the problem...
I think that all the times we see Kang, we are going backwards in the timeline of He Who Remains. His death, the resolve of Kang the Conqueror in the Quantum Realm, the Kang Arena, Kang (Victor Timely) in Loki S2, the Kang Dynasty, etc…
It’s an intriguing way of framing his story. I’m sure my mind will be blown by the end (or beginning?) of it all.
True! This could be kind like Tenet!
They copied that from doctor who
@@jwoods9659supernatural did it first. It’s not a hard thing to come up though it’s dumb to say x did it first
I think he who remains is also conquerer they hint at it
No but its the truth, doctor who did it great he was moving forward in time and the love of his life his wife was moving backwards. They had good writers in the day. @@HigherKaiju
Doug’s “Yeah, I miss the days when Grimace was collecting rainbow rocks” might be the best line ever! 😂🤪
I theorize that the only reason why there was only one possible outcome the avengers won against thanos was because in every other possibility the TVA showed up and pruned the timeline
U rightttt
Because what the avenger said I'm endgame was supposed to happen according to revonna so yea u right they didnt want them to beat thanos that way
i mean we may have already seen a small hint at the "other way" when it comes to preventing the destruction of whole timelines. In Loki S1 towards the end when HWR is explaining his backstory, he at one point shows us how exactly universes are "stacked" together. Maybe the way to allow these branches to thrive is to "prune" them, but then place them "on their own tier". Basically taking the branch reality and giving it it's own "pot". Makes a lot of sense if you also think of how they use a lot of horticulture terminology when it comes to the TVA
I like this idea!
This is the correct answer and how a "Multiverse" evolves into an "Omniverse".
I wonder if it’s actually two factions of Kang variants. Individuals that come from a singular timeline and want stability versus Kang variants that are the direct result of time travel/incursion events and need multiversal chaos to even exist.
Finally is someone pointing out the similarities between Miss Minutes and Layla. I‘ve been noticing it the first time seeing Across the Spiderverse, but I was so sad that no one on TH-cam was picking up on that 😢
Too bad that Leya made an appearance in the post-credit scene of Into the Spider-Verse (2018) and that her character has existed since the 80s.
Which makes the similarities just a coincidence.
The other way is to kill the kang variants before they discover the multiverse or ensure they aren't born in the first place without destroying a timeline. (Which would have ramifications into itself)
kang is wrong. The "sacred timeline" is still a timeline where kang exists. It's like ricks central finite curve. The problem is Kang not Kang's solution to the problem of himself.
this guy gets it. kang presumes he must live as his baseline and then enacts a plan that best serves his own survival. the TVA has to stop Kings existence. Stop the one to save the many.
I think it strange to curtail someone's life when they've done nothing wrong yet. The Kangs were peaceful towards one another at first. Only certain Kangs saw others as threats.
And there's no problem if there's just one existing Kang. He can't start a war against timelines and Kangs that don't exist.
That's why he needs erasing from existence, like all of him. But his ego would never allow all versions of him to die. But that would be the fairer way for all existence to just exist without him ruining everything.
@@FutureDeep if there is one, there is an infinite amount of them
Hence why iron man died
I think a thing we're forgetting is about Infinity Ultron* from What If, he might be the biggest threat right now to reality, and pruning a timeline in which he might be running around, making sure he's there and not between multiverses like he was once, might be another way to save reality itself.
Infinity stones don't work in the TVA
The fact that The Watcher exists and can see the multiverse, timelines and all, already means Kang failed and his failure isn't a consequence on the bigger picture.
I do think something like a problems with Kangs is that they are too afraid of themselves, and by the prisoner's dilemma don't trust each other not to turn on each other.
There is going to have to be something like trust. Via comics I think a younger Kang can be the only thing to reign himself in.
It's weird for me to watch "people" root for the bad guys
What other villains were right?
Magneto but he goes too far
Me
Killmonger
Kaecilius
Killmonger, Kang (He Who Remians), Magneto & Wanda
Ok so hear me out on this one... what if the reason why we don't see X:Men running around every universe is that, Kang had WAY too much trouble with them than he should have so they simply would not fit the "Narrative". It could be that the X:Men at some point over powered and won vs Kang sending him further along his path, just as Scott Lang did in Quantum Mania.
Hmmm... interesting theory
I’ve had the same theory: the X-Men WERE in the MCU, but Kang pruned them. As a result, the MCU we know has been a lie all along and was a twisted timeline from beginning.
@jossmircruz how's he going to prune them only from the MCU? It's not selective. It would seem more plausible that he used Scarlet Witch to say "No more mutants".
@@Eireternal i think we’ve passed the time for them to use that bit from the comics. Unless they show that ir already happened in a previous version of the timeline.
@@iLLiCiT_XL ya that's ehat I was thinking. Like they'd show he's done it in the past...and that the 616 used to be different.
The timelines being on repeat and slightly different makes me think of The Wheel of Time and how each cycle is a bit different but always set up the next cycle at the end.
Loki season 2 is keeping the threat of Kang Alive! It's doing such a phenomenal job this season so far!
The spider-verse being a separate part of the multiverse and Kang starting the TVA and the Spider Society is such a deep/dope concept. Love it
And now the answer to it all is LOKI creating yggdrasil. He is now the anchor of the multiverse allowing free will (branching of new universes) without the risk of incursions.
He just prevents the TVA from blowing up,but does he stop incursions?
Watching this after Loki Finale
I would think his way is probably the most efficient way to do it. So yes I would definitely think there might be another way. That way might be just to easy to mess up and Kang thinks it’s not worth the risk.
I’m sure someone else has already said it but today is the date that Tony Stark died in the MCU. (10-17-23)
3 questions!
1. What is Alioth? like how did Kang make it or catch it?
2. Universe & Timelines the same thing? How?
3. How did Kang start? I see the Victor Timely scene but that doesn’t explain his tech or his position outside of time?
Allioth was created from the remnants of millions of incursions happening all at once. He Who Remains has no direct relation to Allioth, it just uses it to destroy what remains of pruned timelines.
Universes and timelines, despite the MCU seeming to use the terms interchangeably, are not the same. As an example, say that I decide to go to Best Buy on Sunday to buy a video game. There is a possibility that a branching timeline (Timeline B) can spawn, and in this timeline has me go to Gamestop instead of Best Buy. If Timeline B diverges enough from Timeline A to form its own universal properties, then another universe is born. So, in essence, all universes are different timelines, but not all timelines are different universes.
Endgame is another example. The Quantum Tunnel moved the Avengers across timelines within the same universe, and because Cap returned all of the stones, those timelines did not diverge too much. It's possible that universes did spawn, but either way, the changes weren't a threat to the TVA, unlike 2012 Loki's escape from New York.
2 they are different things, none of the TH-camrs acknowledges this,
3 time loop
@@stormichow5325 that helped a lot thank you !
@@ked49 ayy you noticed that too
@@stormichow5325 thanks so much mate that cleared up a lot
i’ve had the miguel working for kang and lyla being ms. minutes theory since the movie came out and it’s cool to see you post this theory
I'm not sure if this has been pointed out yet. But, throughout S1, Loki was shown to recognize deception since Loki himself is a master of deceit.
By the end of S1, when Loki meets He Who Remains, it seems that Loki is really scared of what He Who Remains was saying.
It's as if Loki himself cannot find a single deception in He Who Remains' words.
So now, in S2, Loki is doing everything to put a stop on He Who Remains (once he emerges again).
This hidden message of season 2 seems to be order and chaos. Chaos being loki. Mobius being order. I think he had no reason to doubt kang because he saw what he did to infinity stones and how he predicted everything. While sylie was rage enduced
@@HigherKaiju He didn't do anything to the Infinity Stones. It's a quality of the stones they only work in their own universe. They simply didn't explain it.
Oh great the plot ..
16:50 its crazy how ms minutes is a animated ai and lyla is a human ai for the spider verse
I think I understood all of that. The one sticking point for me is not really seeing a reason why (or even how) all those Kang variants could arrive at any sort of common goal. Multiversal branches left unmonitored result in incursions, so surely everyone one of them is in pursuit of their own interests? They should all want/need to kill each other on sight. 🤔
That's the entire point. They do want to do that, but they also recognize that killing each other is risky. It's mutually assured destruction. If the Kang's start fighting each other, they all could die. This is where we are at right now in the story. They have an uneasy truce. But, the truce falls apart and results in a war between the Kang's that if not stopped would destroy everything. This is what He Who Remains stopped in the past and Kang the conqueror in Antman foresees and wants to do, which is why there is speculation that the Kang variant in Antman is a younger He Who Remains who hasn't yet created the TVA and stopped the war yet (remember timey whimey stuff, could be same person, just a different point in his own life, even though living at the same "time". This is also possibly why Kang says "see you soon" right before dying. Not simply that they will see his variants, but that if Sylvie kills him, a younger version of himself will just end up right back at the end point in time and "reset" everything. That him becoming He Who Remains is part of a loop in time that keeps repeating itself.
I love how you accurately predicted some stuff that will happen, kudos! Great video!
Quick question for anyone who can answer. Since Kang is a crazy multiversal traveler, does he know about the watcher?
It is a possibility, but something to consider with this theory of yours. As you stated Kang is a multiversal "traveler," meaning he just passes through like a tourist, as opposed to The Watcher who observes everything within the multiverse. He has seen everything that has happened, will happen, and ever could. So I'd say yeah Kang is aware of The Watchers existence, but since The Watcher is just an observer, Kang doesn't see him as any type of threat.
I think Kang travels within the multiverse, while the Watcher is on the outside looking in. Maybe he could become aware if the layers between were worn down.
No, wrong multiverse
You’re asking because in what if we see ultron who seems less powerful than kang find the watcher. Here’s my theory. Kangs found the watcher also and won against him or is preparing to fight him but isn’t ready to without a strategy. His palace where he remains looks a lot like the watchers space he fights ultron in. It’s very purple and magic is usable there. I could be wrong and totally mistaken but I came to your question as well when thinking about what if. what if also comes after lokis show in the timeline so maybe Kang when he notices something new and mentions they passed the threshold was when in what if the watcher is discovered. Maybe Kang was looking for him or trying to see what would happen if he found the watcher without doing it himself allowing ultron to be a crash dummy to know what avengers he’d be up against when facing the watcher himself. The watcher can be animated like the spider verse but I’ve heard with the watcher he’s connected to his versions all at once. So again Kang could be coming after the watcher in the upcoming movies. That’s my theory and would make Kang a better story later on. Watcher broke his oath like doctor strange and we don’t really know what’s right from wrong. I’d like to see a human being from earth fight all these crazy entities marvel has because why not. It’s all totally unhinged and we don’t even know evil is just like in the real world we live in now. It’d be nice to see Kang end up destroying everything and seeing some humility in his own quest for power and knowledge.
@@jayyy4491 great theory 👏🏾😮💨🔥🔥
I never TRULY understood the sacred timeline and wtf he who remains was talking about until this video. Bless your heart.
A lot of villains are misunderstood. They have the right ideas but just go about them all wrong.
Bro, your theories/ way you explain it, is the only reason i keep watching and hooked on the MCU content because you make it more interesting than the content itself
Also one other thing to mention is that I really like the parts that plays character dialogue over different scenes that correspond to it.
We already know Kang failed (and it didn't matter), simply because Dr. Strange even jumped dimensions to begin with.
It’s possible Kang may have missed something. In Loki season 2 finale, Kang for the first time couldn’t tell what’s going happen next. I’m thinking somehow someone or something broke the time loop. I’m guessing instead of time going in loop it’ll keep on moving forward. Until the ultimate end.
What if Quantumania's Kang The Conqueror wasn't killed in the end of the movie, he's been sent to the end of time instead (that's why TVA can't detect his temporal aura, it's out of their reach and they assume he's dead), Renslayer sees its arrival on that purple light by the end of Loki season 2 and he will convince her to be his army's general on the war. That is the part of his story when he will use Alioth to consume all the other universes and stablish the Sacred Timeline, take back the TVA and get back to prune possible branches. Nothing has ever been out of his plans. Ouroboros, the cicle starts again...
I honestly consider the archno verse a hidden sun network under the existing multiverse. Like an unintended Tor network, hence they can ride their own protocols without trending on the path of standard multiverse avoiding Kangs immediate path.
Maybe I’m overlooking some obvious flaw in this logic but why can’t the TVA’s mission be to hunt ONLY Kang variants to prevent the multiversal war without destroying entire universes?
As soon as one Kang pops up it’s already over so they’re preventing kang by pruning every universe that goes too far from 616
Because I mean.. Kang is very powerful. Anything that He Who Remains can do, another Kang could do with infinitely more power and danger.
How can they monitor branches if they leave the ones that aren’t kang? Lol
How would they do it, they have problems with Loki variants. They try to prevent Kangs from appearing.
If Loki is able to prevent Ravonna from giving Victor Timely the TVA handbook in the 1890s, I'm pretty sure he never actually becomes Kang. He Who Remains creates himself (and all of his variants) by trying to ensure that he can save the multiverse from himself. So the first and best solution to stopping any and all versions of Kang is to prevent that TVA handbook from going through that window.
Loki can now timeslip both outside and inside the TVA at will. He has the equivalent power of season 1 finale HWR, except it's naturally occurring, not preprogrammed tech. I think he can rewrite the story so that HWR's failsafe never happens, but the TVA still exists, with him and the squad in charge. In my POV, OB would be able to create whatever tech is necessary to prevent another Kang from ever coming into existence, particularly with Loki's power to essentially rewrite time by experiencing all possible pasts and futures and ensuring victory through trial and error (which I think is what we'll see him do in the finale to prevent the end of everything--except it will actually result in simply rebooting the TVA with Kang in charge).
(I don't think it's going to go down this way for obvious storytelling reasons... hard to have a Kang Dynasty movie if Kang doesn't exist anymore. But this is a theory I think is *possible* within the constraints of the story as it is being told.)
Babbel is genius! Selling the idea of learning a new language that you could otherwise do for free, and then making you do the work of actually learning it. Then charging you for the work you've done. Genius!
Every time I see He Who Remains I get shivers. Johnathan Majors is plays this so perfectly with such emotion. I can feel the pain that he has gone through. 16:38
Has anybody reviewed that Mobius said to Loki in S1 about the the TVA something like "that side over there is like a bunch of nightmares." And now... in S2, Agent 10 said to Mobius, "wake up, this isn't real, WAKE UP! None of this is real!" Is the TVA place more like a Matrix realm? Where real and created cannot be distinguished unless the Temporal Aura picture is taken, to determine if the person is real or sort-of-generated?
Was Kang Right?
Most likely yes
No.
YES
Yes
No he isn’t. Why does the multiverse have to “over load” or “collide into each other”. The hero’s need to find a way they exist independently. And Loki will lead a new variation of the TVA ensuring that it stays in order. Fulfilling his “you are made to be ruled”… a happy ending for Loki
Gosh I freaking love this channel!!!!
Why not prune every Kang since he’s the one that starts the multiversal war? Would that create a branching timeline?
It could
At 17:30 the chain of logic for the absolute point in time had nothing to do with Dormammu consuming the universe... it had to do with the creation of a paradox in which he would never have sought to master the mystic arts if not for her death (the same way in 616 he wouldn't have sought the mystic arts if not for losing function in his hands), thus he would never have become keeper of the time stone and been able to go back in time. It's the paradox that destroys the universe, not dormmamu... That was made pretty clear in the episode, but just thought you should know!
i feel like the Victor Timely coming in loki is the same Kang we also saw in Ant-man. He mentions seeing a broken timeline. We know, loki needs a Kang to save the timeline. Maybe they'll pull timely into the tva that he hadnt created yet, then he gets so scared that it actually makes him become the Kang and he who remains that we know.
"A TVA that he hasn't created yet" doesn't exist and can not exisit in MCU though. TVA is in the Quantum Realm, and it is Independent of all time line. There is only 1 TVA total, not 1 TVA per universe.
When Loki was Time Slipping, he isn't traveling to TVA of another Time line, he was merely traveling into the Past and Future of the Same TVA.
I’ve been watching your videos for years, and this is a first: you finally broke my brain! 🤯 Lol! The connection to the spiderverse, and the TVA….whew! 👏
The sad thing is, the Marvel multiverse (and DC film universe) may have (I think has) done the concept a disservice. Man I loved those early Flash comics in which Barry Allen meets Jay Garrick. No universe ending danger. Just the fun of these 2 heroes meeting each other.
How can Miles have a canon event if the spider that bit him wasn’t meant to bite him…unless it was🤔
Do you think this series, and Loki's story as a whole. is going towards Loki taking over the TVA, or a TVA like entity, to fulfill his first ambitions of becoming the god/ruler of something, but now he understand the weight of his title because of the unorthodox heroes journey he's been on.
Loki: My first decree! Jetskis for everyone!
Loki God of Stories
Loki is sitting down right now, thinking about it! ;)
Actually Miles' equivalent to Uncle Ben dying was Uncle Aaron dying. His dad dying would be the equivalent to Captain Stacy dying in the Amazing Spider-Man.
But Miles’ future isn’t written yet. In the meta sense and the metaphorical. His spider bite came from another reality. And when Mumbaihattan started falling apart, that wasn’t an incursion. It was spot attacking.
@@Bman32xThat's beside the point. The death of Uncle Aaron is his major cannon event that pushed him to become Spiderman. Every Spiderman has a captain die. The only thing Miles has the others don't is being bit by a spider from an alternate universe and seeing the Peter Parker of his world die just like Gwen
@@DEEliot-ky9cl Well technically, Uncle Aaron didn't push Miles to become Spiderman. Peter's death gave him that push, and it was only after hearing his father's speech that Miles gained control over his powers.
THANKS for this, Doug and Ryan!!!!
What I don't understand is how Hunter X-5 is found on the Sacred Timeline as an Actor Brad Wolf. I would not be as confused if they found him on another timeline, but it clearly stated the Sacred Time line which is the time line that the TVA was working to save. So why was X-5 there and able to just exist as a person? Wouldn't that then make it a non Sacred timeline branch?
Maybe that was his original life
He was on the sacred timeline because he knew of the mass attack on the branches by the splinter group of the TVA. He stayed on the sacred timeline insuring he wouldn't be pruned. before any MCU stuff happened so he could be "normal".
He's on the sacred timeline because that modified temped allowed it. He didn't set off a smoke flare, because time is not yet written as time is released. So he can go on it without it creating a branch or nexus due to his existence.
He killed the real brad
@@ked49 no... Brad is a varient of someone on the sacred timeline. Him living on the sacred timeline doesn't mean he has to kill anyone. Since his branch exists now, the timeline he's on doesn't matter. So if he's on the sacred timeline, he's creating branches every choice he makes. Yet without pruning, he can live without the fear of his specific timline getting crushed
Am I the only one that doesn't see the destruction of a whole universe as something "bad"? Like, if you kill one person, his family and etc., will be sad and will remember him, but if you destroy the whole universe nobody will even be alive to remember or suffer😂
What I want to know is does Kang/He who remains know which of these new time lines will create an "evil" variant
Maybe eliminating the timeline of an "evil" variant is the very spark that causes other Kangs to become scared and begin their own multiversal war.
Ryan. He was absolutely right. This is the deepest and best explanation I have heard. I wish I could give two thumbs up. Thank you. Now this solidifies the fact that they have to keep Jonathan Majors. MCU can bring in Doom if they want, but they have to complete this saga. I think pivoting will kill them.
Great breakdown. Basically explains the whole story so far. Thanks
If kang was right the avengers would never defeat kang in the comics.
another reason why kang and he who remains is the same variant: In the most recent ant man film Kang said that he will leave our universe alone, and what did he who remains do? He made it the main universe.
Its not that Kang's way is the only way...its just...it actually IS the only way. Every single possibility is inevitable and will always follow its correct path. So it's not really "Kang's Way" it actually just is "The Only Way". There is only 1 option.
This explained everything so well thank you
I love the idea that spider-man is has a major impact on the multiverse and because of that secretly “he who remains “ task Miguel O’Hara with structuring out the multiverse
He Who Remains is one the best villains. Once you realize his Sacred Timeline is keeping the rest of the Kangs away, you kind of want him to win.
Everybody feeling like the dog at the end lol
I honestly love how Spider-Verse straight goes.
"This blue line here the Multiverse. But these other universes are the Spider-Verse."
The idea to have Multi Layered Multiverses is extremely amazing idea and lets u have MCU have two designations.
199999 for everyone one else but in their Multiverse, 616.
My guess is Ouroboros can modify the loom so that it can organize all the timelines into parallel lines instead of random branches.
These marvel movies and shows like loki are such a turn in this whole franchise. Every marvel movie before was great. It was fun and had a pretty straight foward event. Villains. Heroes defeat villains. Pretty cut clear. But after thanos and wandavision and now LOKI. These are such great steps I dont think marvel will ever top these moments ever again
I'm starting to wonder why Kang just didn't prune his counterparts rather than just nuking every alternate reality he was in from existing, and then I started to think... maybe that's his Canon Event.
You explained everything so well. I love your videos.
16:55 This makes perfect sense after Loki episode 3, she could be a version of Miss Minutes who managed to get herself a real body it’s like she wanted
Your editor deserves a freaking award.
I can watch 1000's of Theories on Marvel Multiverse because the Story is so Interesting.❤
What if "He Who Remains" was actually that Kang that Ant-Man defeated? And it was just before "He Who Remains" (HWR) became that person? He did say he was dubbed many names, one being "conqueror". They both had the same vision and seemed like they went about it the same way. What if Sylvie killing HWR allowed Ant-Man to do what he did or allowed the Kangs to do what they did and banish him altering his timeline? It's just very strange they are so similar in motive and method.
Everyone gets so caught up on all the lives destroyed when the branch realities are destroyed, but i mean technically there is a timeline where these problems didn't happen and timelines where they didn't get killed. So even though they were destroyed, they aren't ever really destroyed. It's just that their ability to interact with our current timeline has been eliminated.
Yesss at least you get it Ryan, bro over at newrockstars thinks dox just pruned earth on all those branches and everyone in the comments is like no bro, she deleted a timeline, that’s an entire universe deleted, multiple times, quadrillions of lives lost
I feel like we're stuck in a time loop where every week there is a "VILLAIN WAS RIGHT" video
Superpowers don't just mean you can shoot laser with super strength. A super power is someone or something with the power to make a difference, wether its war, intellect, or resources. Captain America is just a super strong man and he put the fists on Kang too
I think this all leads to Loki as Avenger Prime. He will replace Kang, have multiversal Avengers, and use the TVA, with the help of his TVA friends, for good so as to not trigger another Kang event.
This is absolutely BRILLIANT, easily the best video that you've ever made. Thank you thank you thank you
I'm starting to think Loki never getting killed and always being able to escape is because he timetravels all the time
This is actually how miles morales is going to transcend into the live action movies. Im excited for all thats coming from marvel. Especially with the changes that are being made
Feels weird to connect the MCU to the Spiderverse after Kemp Powers confirmed that they're not connected in any way
He wasn't right. He created a path through a universe that HE could live with. That suited HIS goals. That necessitated HIS governance. HE is the problem. ALL of him. Only one creature ever need be 'pruned' from any timeline and that is KANG himself.
You can't be the cause and solution of the problem
Being a hero is not about sacrifice it's about effort trying to save everything and everyone is the point, sometimes failing is the story that keeps us coming back.
I recall in Doctor Who, the Doctor (10th or 11th) mentions fixed moments in time, things he cannot change, where other events can be changed as they dont make a strong impact in the timeline.
Infinite number of representative of multiverse will make it more chaotic
Cant lie, imma sucker for either Wilson brother but this detective loki aspect is a good look for his live action iteration
The multiverse is basically made out of threads which are various timelines. In order to strengthen them they need to be woven together into a textile of some sort.
The story following Kang would be so good. I feel like it has SOOOO much potential. I'm a little scared to see how this is going to be handled now. :(