Hollow Knight - 6 Years Later.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2024
- Hollow Knight is an incredibly competent game on pretty much all fronts. In my opinion, Hollow Knight is a masterpiece and we will discuss all the things that make it so great in detail in this Hollow Knight retrospective. However - the one thing that I find most fascinating about Hollow Knight is an aspect of the game that is seldom discussed.
The most fascinating aspect of Hollow Knight is that it exists in the first place - because to put it mildly - Hollow Knight’s existence should not be possible.
Hollow Knight was developed by only three people, in roughly three years.
Three people managed to produce a game that looks this beautiful, features a combat system with a skill ceiling this high, crafted a beautiful world this big, wrote lore that deep, and crafted gameplay this fluid.
Three people did a job that puts most teams of 60 people that work for half a decade on a game to shame.
How did three pull this off?
In this Hollow Knight retrospective, we are going to investigate this question. We are going to find out how it is possible that Hollow Knight even exists!
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--------- Timestamps
00:00:00 - Intro
00:02:47 - Core Systems
00:15:31 - Pacing & Geo
00:27:03 - The Cannibals of the City of Tears (Lore Discussion)
00:36:04 - Deepnest
00:46:00 - Bosses
01:06:35 - The Hollow Knight’s Burden (Story Discussion)
01:14:35 - The Colosseum of Fools (Economical Game Design)
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-------------------Credits for the Music
Hollow Knight OST: “Truth, Beauty and Hatred”, “City of Tears”, “Kingdoms Edge”, “Nosk”, “Radiance”, “Broken Vessel”, “Mantis Lords”, “Grimm”, “Sealed Vessel”,
Duck Tales NES OST - “Title Theme”
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time OST - “Gerudo Valley”, “Song of Storms”
The Legend of Zelda OST - “Title Theme”
Paper Mario: Origami King OST - The Elastic Entertainer Enters
------Holfix
/ holfix
HolFix - Beyond The Kingdom
• [Free Music] HolFix - ...
Additionally, the video uses licensed tracks from productioncrate.com
Special thanks to the Hollow Knight title generator over at prashantmohta.github.io/Title... for generating a lot of titles over the last couple of weeks. - เกม
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"Hornet in general is amazing. So amazing that, y'know, I know it's never going to happen, but sometimes, I think about how cool it would be if she got her own game."
felt that
Me too
I wish hollow knight had a sequel that starred hornet called "silksong" or something like that
@@ronyrubinov7449funny, I had a really cool dream that feels exactly like that 4 years ago, I think it's called Roughvideo or something
@@shotgunz2008 3 dudes with billions of dollars (also the team is definitely way more than "3 dudes" now unlike Bleak Faith Forsaken which *is* impressively being developed by just 3 dudes.)
it's literally 3 guys. what are you talking about @@xQc_Enjoyer777
Fun Fact: You don't have to defeat False Knight in order to get the first ability. His boss room has a breakable wall that allows you to skip the fight, meaning that the city crest isn't just a lore item.
You also don't need to use the city crest to get into the City of Tears. So it is, in fact, just a lore item.
@@onyxiris6451 you need the city crest to enter that specific entrance of the city of tears, which is the only one accessible that early in the game without sequence breaking. its gameplay role may be minor but whether or not you obtain it early on does in fact change the possible routes through the game.
A Fun fact that everyone thinks everyone doesn’t know…
Incorrect. You can get the tram pass and go from the tram in deepnest to ancient basin or kingdom's edge. Leading to the right side of the city. Most players don't do this though XD.
@@nevermind3476 No. Deepnest -> Tram pass -> Take tram to Ancient basin -> go up to city.
another minor addition to how team cherry made hollow knight, is that they made the game in a way that they could stop production at any time and still have a full game. as in, starting with the areas that progress the "intended path" and then expanding areas until their money ran out
And aside from a few exceptions to make the game better, little to none assets were wasted, they made sure they reuse as much as possible to save time and money.
You know how people praise the 1st half of Dark Souls 1 being the best in the industry when it comes to open-ended and non-linear progression in that genre? I think Hollow Knight does it better, mainly since it's consistent across the board and keeps on to that quality all the way to the end. While Hollow Knight can be described more as a Metroidvania than a Souls-like, I feel like people don't praise this aspect of the game enough when it comes to its peers, as HK has a lot in common with those games when it comes to level-design.
The problem with that style is that they seem to basically be doing the same with Silksong, but they have approximately infinite money now.
That's why I don't know why people are worried about silksong. That style of developing only means that the longer the wait the best game we'll get. Is far from cancelled.
@@lhs305 Not necessarily. Sometimes projects get reset in the middle of development and steer towards a different direction, so you have to start over again. No one knows if Silksong was the same concept from the start and didn't need to reboot itself several times when being made.
Ceave and Hollow Knight, that's two of my favourite things on the internet at the same time
EXACTLY my thoughts. What did we do to deserve this
Same
SAME BRO!
Same
me too i am literally hyperfixating on hollow knight rn this is the most pleasant surprise ever
I had a purple mushroom moment but I was lucky that it didn't stop me from progressing, it just altered it heavily. So you know the city crest? Well I forgot about it. I just didn't remember obtaining it and assumed I didn't have access to the city of tears. What did I do instead? I beat the mantis sisters and explored the deepnest, ancient basin, crystal peak, resting grounds, the hive and the kingdoms edge and then finally reached the city from the east, all without upgrading my nail. The single largest area in the game was the second to last one I discovered. And I absolutely love that the game allowed me to be stupid enough to do that. It objectively made a large portion of the game way harder than intended, but the fact that I had an extremely different adventure than the vast majority of players is extremely cool, and not something you can expect to be possible from almost every other game.
I had a fairly similar experience, and tbh that was amazing.
I beat most of the game before finding out there's a nailsmith that upgrades your weapon. I think I even beat the Hollow Knight and got the bad ending with the vanilla nail unless I'm missremembering.
For people who don’t realize how hard this is, without upgrading your nail once you do 4 damage for each swing, and gain 5 damage every upgrade, so even if you were like me and went through the entire game on my first play through with only the geo upgrade to my nail because I forgot about upgrading nail strength. You would still be doing twice the damage this guy is doing, congrats on this for your first play through.
I think it was when I looked stuff up after beating the game I realized how stupid I was but ended up only adding to the game and now I’ve ended up beating every boss without getting hit once and even have started taking on ridiculous modded challenges like the pale court and is without a doubt my favourite game of all time.
@@pmahcgop6693you got it backward, starts at 5 and adds 4 pure nail deals 21
@@pmahcgop6693 you do 5 dmg with base nail and each upgrade adds 4
Hollow “Work Smarter Not Harder” Knight. I never even noticed so many of the things you pointed out here. Hollow Knight is genuinely a masterpiece
Yes
If I may, I would like to recommend you other metroidvanias in case you would like to try them out in the future, ot you wait for Silksong:
- Iconoclasts
- Metroid Dread / Metroid Prime Remastered
- 9 Years of Shadows (a metroidvania developed in my country - Mexico)
- Unsighted
- Blasphemous 1 & 2
- Axiom Verge 1 & 2
- Crownsworn (still in development)
- The Last Faith (launches in October)
- Toki Tori 1& 2
- Teslagrad 1 & 2
- Rain World
- Ori and The Blind Forest & Ori and the Will of The Wisps
- Ender Lilies: Quietus of the Knights
Yeah it’s insane. I had absolutely no idea that the game was leading me to sit on a bench at the bottom of deepnest. It’s so genius. I felt like I was so dumb to just sit on that bench but the design completely intended it. Soothing calm hot spring with a place to rest after all of the stress of deepnest, I had no idea that was the game design till I watched this video
5:58 small nitpick: The False Knight can't be reached by taking the path to the right until the player hits a lever after following the left path
I noticed that too, I was like "wait, you're not supposed to reach the false knight from the right side",
there's only really lore, a geo rock, and grubs there
I also thought about that but i just tought that maybe i misunderstood and he meant that the left path had both
I was yelling at the screen when Ceave said that
actually if you go left, there is a lever wall blocking you, and you need to go to the right, then down and around to the left
Yup. I spent a long time lost to the right trying to open the doors ahahaha
All three videos on this channel so far are the kind of thing I'd expect to see after a six-month wait from any other channel. In-depth yet concise and focused, while still feeling loose and personal. Outstanding stuff.
He has another channel (which was his original channel) which has the same very indepth stuff but all about Mario games (specifically Mario Maker 1 and 2). I'm glad to see him branching out his content coz he really make these videos really interesting
Something I would like to mention is that after entering the dirtmouth well for the first time, only the left path is mandatory, because the right path is eventually blocked by a gate that can only be opened after travelling around the bottom of the Forgotten Crossroads after taking the left path.
The False Knight is kept behind this gate.
EDIT:
I've just checked out the path in-game, and the right path just leads back to the left path (with extra steps ofc) so I'm frankly not sure what to believe lol. Gonna pretend I'm still half right.
Yeah, the right path is a shortcut
I'd say you're right.
Wow, I never noticed that Deepnest is just a collection of phobias, so no matter who you are you are almost definitely going to be scared! For me, the small areas where the floor breaks under you were the worst, they made me jump every time (and I don't like jumpscares)
I spoiled myself on the game before playing it and I was kind of worried about Deepnest because I'm an arachnophobe but I played anyway and the only thing that made me super uncomfortable in Deepnest was the foreground bugs and when you walked and just a ton of spiders crawled out in certain spots, surprisingly
Reminds me of Subnautica, "This biome meets 7 of the 9 conditions for instilling fear in humans."
You say having the monarch wings in front of Nosks lair is a 50-50, but curious players who looove exploring can end up in Deepnest before even getting the first nail upgrade or the lamp. Which is what happened to me on my first playthrough. It was indeed, very memorable.
Quite..
LOL that's what happened to me too, and I actually dodged the pitfall! …Before jumping in anyways. Fun times.
Sometimes I have wings to get there and other times I have cdash but no wings. Totally depends on the progression. But I'd for sure say having wings is close to 50/50. Having cdash may be something like 40/60. Having either one and being able to access nose in general though, I'd honestly estimate higher like 60% would have one of those abilities for nosk.
Saaaaame dude, but I also grinded early for Lumafly Lantern. Ended up making my way all the way to Beast's Den before I got dream nail and was VERY confused.
@@targetbuddy5
This, i reached Herrah before dream nail.
One thing I’d like to add about your discussion of corpse runs: they can be more bearable if they help teach you something about the boss you’re running to. The enemies along the way to the Soul Master have some of his attacks - teleportation, rotating magic orb, and tracking magic orb. So as you fight them, it’s like a miniature version of fighting him.
The Soul Sanctum in general is there to teach you to use spells. There's containers of soul all over the place, as well as weak one hit enemies that provide you with constant soul refills. Then there are the teleporting enemies - they stay a distance away from you and teleport away when you hit them, making them a huge pain to fight with the nail. If you're having trouble with them, it's because you're not learning what the game is trying to teach you: You have a ranged attack option.
The issue is that by the time you reach the Sanctum, using the nail for combat and Soul purely to heal is probably already pretty ingrained in the player, and by this point it's pretty difficult to adjust your way of thinking. I had the exact same problem with the run to Soul Master as Ceave, having to try it over and over again. It would be a lot better if this was something the game taught the player earlier.
Maybe, but the soul master's corpse run is far too tough and long to be enjoyable. and also, the soul master is far more predictable than the soul twisters
I actually ran into the Dung Defender pretty early into the game, basically as soon as the waterways were opened. really goes to show how many directions you can go with this game, how many different orders you can discover everything.
I only encountered him after getting the first ending. I can't remember how I got to Monomon but I know for sure I reached it via another route.
@@ZorotheGallade I also didn't see him until after first ending, the shade cloak was my method of getting to Monomon.
Dung defender was the first boss I fought after getting the mantis claw!
Ceave complaining about the ghosts in the lost kin fight
me chilling with defenders crest that kills them before they can get to me, bc i did dung defender quite early as well
Lost Kin was literally the last boss I fought. Pretty sure I did the speedrun skips to get the last dreamer and killed Hollow Knight first, even. Didn't even _know_ there was a double jump until postgame.
I cannot physically comprehend how it is humanly possible to put out 3 videos of the highest quality possible, all over an hour long, within the span of only 2 months. Watching this makes me want to go back to Hollow Knight (I haven't defeated Hornet 2 yet).
What no silksong does to a hollow knight player
@@esdeathTheEternalthis has been in the works for a long time it's not been entirely made in the last 2 months
new to video essays, huh?
There's a second hornet fight?!?!
@@treemaster8135 Yup
59:10 in defence of the infection balloons : they aren't exactly like other boss hazards, since they have one major difference : they give soul. This may not seem like a big deal, but this makes lost kin with a level 0 nail and the upgraded vengeful spirit my favourite boss in the game : since you get a lot of soul from these guys, you get a lot of opportunities to cast spells. And this is especially great for this boss, who has a lot of knockback when hit : if you time it correctly, you're able to hit them twice with a single shade soul, which does a lot of damage and is very satisfying to pull off. The balloons don't pose much of a threat either : you can get rid of them with just one nail swing while focusing on the boss, or you can use the soul you get from them to cast a shade soul, which, if you position yourself correctly, can hit the boss and get rid of a balloon simultaneously. This fight with this sort of equipment is extremely satisfying and is the main reason why I tried learning the true ending speedrun at some point.
Yeah, I didn't really get what he said about them being bullshit, all they do is make you pay attention to more than just the boss itself.
And if you don't want to deal with them, equip Defender's Crest. It kills them with one hit when they get close to you.
@@nediacheese9989 Ceaves doesn't seem the most skilled at the game so to me it genuinely does seem... like a skill issue.
Yeah, the balloons are far from "artificial difficulty" as he says
I think they're also there so you cant just go full ham on lost kin unlike its real world variant, or at the very least not to the extent you can in the real world variant
I still think that the City of Tears is one of the *most* beautiful and stunning places in *any* video game I've played. And I've played a ton of games. First time walking into the City of Tears remain one of the best memories and feelings ever, and is something that I will never forget.
I distinctly remember my first time playing through Hollow Knight and, instead of experiencing that "what the-" moment at the final boss, it was in the City of Tears at the memorial to the Hollow Knight that I realized that my perception of who the player character was had been entirely wrong. I think me and many other players just stared at the plaque after the beautiful cutscene trying to wrap our heads around it. 6 years later and still waiting for Silksong, but still a masterpiece.
I think your editing is actually genius.
That section with the difference inspirations of Hollow Knight’s core mechanics with the timer ticking was mindblowing-ly good
The deepnest section coming out of nowhere was absolutely perfect too
I love how Ceave showed his frustration on silksong never coming out, while still acting cool and collected.
Still, Silksong did have a trailer. It's still kind of 'game code' to release a game after it's published trailer. The one thing I don't hope is Team Cherry going bankrupt or something like that. Alpha Dream got bankrupt (only example I know)
@@rukeyburg1084Please no more ! After Alphadream, Vanpool I don't want Team Cherry too 😅
@@rukeyburg1084there's no way they are going bankrupt... They made hollow knight on a shoe string budget.... They are about to get a massive pay day with silksong.... They are simply making damn well sure they are releasing the game they want to make.... They want to create something amazing and I don't blame them.... Think how easy it would have been for them to capitalize on they hype train and release anything they wanted to...
If I may, I would like to recommend you other metroidvanias in case you would like to try them out in the future, ot you wait for Silksong:
- Iconoclasts
- Metroid Dread / Metroid Prime Remastered
- 9 Years of Shadows (a metroidvania developed in my country - Mexico)
- Unsighted
- Blasphemous 1 & 2
- Axiom Verge 1 & 2
- Crownsworn (still in development)
- The Last Faith (launches in October)
- Toki Tori 1& 2
- Teslagrad 1 & 2
- Rain World
- Ori and The Blind Forest & Ori and the Will of The Wisps
- Ender Lilies: Quietus of the Knights
@@fernandozavaletabustos205 I played ender Lillie's... It was really good...
I personally didn't have that map grind problem since I just continued on and bought stuff when I could afford it. So instead, I dealt with having to learn to read the map like an actual real map and memorize stuff. It was actually more fun than you'd think, at least for me.
Same. I was having enough trouble progressing that I would just return to Dirtmouth any time I was low on health (I didn't find a second bench for a while), so I ended up doing a lot of that grinding along the way back down each time. It didn't take long to get the quill and charm, and that's really all you need to start out. The other automatic pins are nice to have, but nowhere near as critical.
I started Hollow Knight blind last month and it absolutely blew me away. Now that I'm almost done (only missing a few charms, grubs and Radiance), Ceave pulls out ANOTHER banger analysis? This summer can't get can't get any better!
I was really looking forward to this video when you announced it and it did not disappoint. Hollow knight is my favorite game of all time and you have a very interesting perspective on a lot of it that I haven’t really seen anywhere else. The writing in this episode was also incredible with smart ways to explain why things work using other games and banger jokes and I believe you have really outdone yourself even in comparison to you other, already great, videos.
I would like to mention that there are sloped hitboxes in Hollow Knight, they are just all on the ceiling. The community knows this because of hitbox tooling, and there is even a glitch (stallball) that requires sloped surfaces to work
That's proving Ceave's point: all those slopes are extremely buggy, but those bugs don't matter 99.999% of the time because they're on the ceiling.
The mods that have slopes on the ground are extremely janky and funny
This is one of the best video I've ever watched quality and production wise. I enjoyed it so much, the writing, the analysis, the pace, the comparisons to other games and transitions were so good. (Especially the transition for Deepnest). Awesome video, this channel (and the other one) would definitely need more visibility (sadly youtube rewards quantity way more than quality...)
Thats so true what you say!
TH-cam however does love long form content as these videos get lots of views from people watching it over multiple sessions and so it gets pushed to more people but it isn't enough to combat the views you get from sheer quantity
I wish he had talked about the music as well! (Albeit that'd have taken another hour or 2 of video lol).
@@Ciruelatron yeah that's the only thing that was missing imo but since he used the ost throughout the video (corresponding to what is shown on the screen) I guess people were able to understand that the music is indeed a masterpiece
To defend HK on some of the points you’ve made:
1: pogo-ing is something you can figure out by reading the controls, and some charms are even locked behind it. Plus true ending and such. Simply reading the controls or having an open mind makes this not an issue.
2: Geo. Geo isn’t as bad as you make it seem. My friend on his playthrough didn’t need to buy any of the map pins beside the quill and compass. He was walking around with 500-1k geo by then and just didn’t need them.
3: Fungal isn’t the third area. There is no third area. You can get to crystal peak and resting grounds hours before this.Also you can get to city from that side instead of fungal.
4: You got most of the lore right, so good job. But the Soul Sanctum didn’t want to stop the infection, they just wanted immortality.
5: The denizens of Deepnest aren’t *all* weavers. Just the… weavers were. There are the carver things and such that are also there.
6: The Mantis Lords are female, Traitor is the only male.
7: You only killed Soul Master, not Tyrant. You don’t have Dreamnail on your journey yet.
7.5: Same with Lost Kin, you didn’t have DN yet.
8: You were walking around with no map and a lantern in Deepnest. But never mentioned you can get the crystal using lantern. Also the map was extremely easy to reach, you somehow missed it.
9: Nosk my beloved
10: Th Soul Master corpse run is actually fine. There is a lot of jars of soul before the fight, giving you some healing if you got hit. To my knowledge this is the only time there is something like this.
11: I remember seeing the Sisters of Battle for the first time and my face just lit up. Watching the three sisters all fight at once was amazing.
12: The Infected Balloons and spikes from Hornet never spawn on top of you. You are just hitting them yourself.
13:Grimm is my favorite fight up with Sisters.
14: My boy Ceave doing acid skips, nice.
15: The Hollow Knight isn’t ever given a gender, so isn’t technically a brother.
16: Aaannnd that’s all I have to say! Thank you for covering such an amazing game such as Hollow Knight, and showing it to new people. (I mean no hate by writing this list)
💀when reading the controls spoils the abilities in the game tho
some of the things u corrected are really pedantic tho
🤓 lore details
One thing that i should mention, in lost kin or hornet 2 or any of those bosses with random air projectiles, there is NEVER, and i repeat, NEVER a configuration that is impossible to dodge without you misplaying. I realized this and i noticed so many times i was putting myself in awful positions and prioritizing damage over getting rid of the balloons or spike balls, and i instantly became much better at those bossfights by shifting the blame on my positioning.
Yes it amazes me how fair all of hk bosses are. From my experience of no hitting them literally no boss in HK can be considered unfair. Personally lost kin is one of my favourite bosses, the ghosts that spawn every few seconds add so much to the fight imo, you just need to remember to destroy all of them onscreen before you can find an opportunity to heal
@@chobnar977Markoth...
@@lyingriotman2220 yeah I will say abs rad and markoth are def the worst
Wait, what? You have only 3 videos on the channel? And they are all of THIS PERFECT quality? Man... You are truly the KING! Hope to see more of your vids
He also has another channel, so he definitely knows how to make a good video 👌
6:00 Actually you have to go to the left to get to False knight as the way to it from the right is locked behind a shortcut have to hit coming from the left, so while the right leads to Myla and all, it doesn't lead to progression in terms of boss fights and upgrades
Wanted to say the same. Glad there are still some nerds on the watch.
Going to the right only leads to this weired passage that funnels back into this grubfather shaft on the left.
But to be fair I only learned in like my 3rd playthrough that the linearity in the beginning is quite well hidden.
Uhm okay but he has more subsribbers than you so I tihnk I'm gona listen to hmi not yoy
@captainfordo556 okay fordo, you can go back to #lore (ew) now
@@Sapeidra The curse of having way too much hk trivia knowledge is that you notice every inaccuracy lol
Your experience with the purple mushrooms is very similar to what happened to me when I first played Super Metroid. I had no idea, that there was a run-button. Because I was playing on emulator at the time, I didn't have a handbook, and it never occurred to me, that I already had all the tools I needed. I got stuck there for about half an hour, and then moved on to other games. It almost seems silly in hindsight - but as irritating and annoying as it is, there's a reason why most mainstream games feature heavy tutorials at the start. I just wish more games would handle the tutorialization like Escape Goat 2, or The Messenger, instead of being annoying for more experienced players
To give credit where credit is due, super metroid does lock you in that room where you need to run, indirectly telling you that you already have the tools you need. I also needed outside help to get past that room though.
@@Desticler Very true - although I was still in the mindset from older games, that let you get stuck with no way out without reloading saves at times
get Noob Bridge'd idiot, that specific bridge in Super Metroid is the name TV Tropes uses to describe that exact problem
When I played super Meteroid a decade ago, I legit believed I had soft locked myself and reloaded a prior save and ultimately all paths led to that room. Which I really didn't like because I had no clue what the heck they wanted from me.
Being trapped with not even a real hint as to what to do other than messing with the buttons really only had me frustrated as I had up to that point no reason to think I needed to fuck with the controls.
I thought I needed a powerup cuz the game had gotten me too comfortable with the idea that powerups were the path forward in all prior situations.
It didn't feel like a tutorial, it just felt like a badly thought out soft-lock
OK, this is what gets me to start Patreon.
I would love to see a video on the level building genre since there's several indie devs attempting a Zelda Maker lately. Ceave was the only high-profile channel that visited entries like Megaman Maker and Levelhead and discussed features and what they could mean for other entries in the genre.
the whole bit at 6:00 is wrong. Right is a dead end, it doesn't lead to the boss because the is a gate that is closed until you go left down and back up to unlock it. and a nitpick on my part i would certainly argue the tutorial section isn't over till you have claw because that's when is goes from a very linear game to an actual open world. (yes im aware taking the lantern path instead of dash and claw but is 1800 geo grind isn't fun)
Damn this video is great. Awesome editing, all sections flow great into one another, you know when to get super deep in mechanics and when to dive into the lore, can't praise this video enough.
The amount of effort you put into these videos is actually surprisingly unbeliable
Your Mario Maker videos brought me a great deal of joy and comfort during some tough times a few years back. I’m thrilled to see you making content again, and about my favorite game, no less! Can’t wait to see what else is in store:D
This is an incredible celebration of hollow knight. It feels deeply inspiring to watch. Amazing work on this.
5:58 this is actually wrong, the path to the right doesn't lead to false knight until after you have already been to him, as the path down is locked off until you hit a switch.
Hollow knight's freedom of exploration philosophy that Ceave is talking about here is still true though.
@@noxxity True, but I think the path to the right serves more as a lesson for experienced platformer-players that right isn't always right. Gamers are programed to always check the right first, which in this case would lead to a dead end. Though the path won't let you progress further, you still run into the black egg, giving you lore and an introduction to Quirrel. So in that respect, the rigth path learn the players both that right isn't always the right direction, BUT if you do go in the wrong direction, you will still find interesting stuff. One of the many reasons why I love Hollow Knight
Yeah, that was a weird mistake he made. The right path will simply loop around and lead you to the same room that the left path would ensuring that you cannot miss the map guy.
Wow! I'm speachless at how skillfully this masterpiece of a video-essay was created! I legitimately found some real valuable and profound appilication of the info in this video! When you talked about deepnest and the fear and discomfort of it contrasted with the relief of escaping, it made me think of difficult circumstances in life that you come out of on the other side with great relief and reasuring peace! I loved it great work dude!! 🎉
The ghosts in the Lost Kin fight are well implemented in my opinion. You get soul when slashing them, they can be very quickly killed, they are clearly telegraphed, and they spawn in at a fixed rate. Yes they obviously make the fight a lot harder, but they also make it all the more satisfying to gain mastery over the fight.
I also second this, lost kin's dream fight is one of the harder dream rematchs but it is improved by the addition of the new ghost mechanic, both as a way of forcing you to be more careful with your positioning and rewarding it when you are with extra soul. The main danger of the ghosts is how they limit healing so you have less time to do so but I'll defend even that as a way of upping the stakes of the fight and forcing you to truyely master the openings. I like how to pulls your attention so you're not just hyper focused on the boss and instead of have to manage two different things.
It was really interesting listening to your experience because of how different mine was- I didn't spend much time being frustrated by the map, but I also didn't buy accessories to it until after I'd gotten through the first third or so of the game. I assumed the map thing wasn't a money barrier at all- I thought it was designed to make you explore more by leaving you blind for a while before you got indicators of where things you missed were. The Boss run to the Soul Tyrant was tension to me because I only wound up doing it twice, but I didn't FIND him until I had a really tricked out nail that let me beat him in two tries (which I had because I blew any money I had on upgrade seals the second I saw one for sale- hilariously the design didn't make me value money at all, I rarely thought about it beyond impulse buying items). I would've hated that boss run if I'd gone after him earlier. The shroom thing I discovered completely by accident because I liked attacking enemies from the air by swiping down and accidentally bounced while killing one- I could have easily missed that and gotten stuck like you. Makes me realize how much blind luck I had on my playthrough, because I think all of your criticisms are solid even though I didn't even notice any of that.
The mushrooms also got me stuck for awhile until I figured out there is a small spot on the mushroom you can stand on and jump off of
I think the lesson about cutting out the fluff is something that's just universally applicable as life advice, and I'm taking it as such.
Thanks for the wonderful review on a wonderful game Ceave
Absolutely love the section where you go over different games and it gets shorter and shorter each time. Totally creative, very informative, and definitely your style.
I really appreciate your section on Deepnest - the secret drop from the Fungal Wastes happened to me on my second playthrough and totally blew my mind - not only the experience you document here, but also the fact that this resulted in me playing through a large portion of the game backwards from my original playthrough.
The map system actually made the map pins a lot more valuable to me. What this told me as a first time player is that these systems WEREN'T necessary. I bought the quill first, and then I actually bought something from Sly next, I think Gathering Swarm. I was able to use the shape of the map rooms to find my way mostly, before getting the compass, bench, and then two kinds of player placeable. I liked that unlocking the map stuff gave me very concrete goals, but didn't stop me exploring. I only unlocked all of the remaining pins very late in my playthrough.
I think this section actually makes you choose between spending geo on the map or on Sly's shop, or even on Salubra. If you get lost too easily, the map shop is your first priority; but if you have problems with other aspects of the game, like combat, you can choose a shop suited to those needs early.
Spending some time without the Compass also meant I was more confident in removing the charm for boss runs so I could fill up on combat charms. The map is one of my favourite things about Hollow Knight.
Totally agreed there should have been some kind of pogo tutorial though.
clearly haven’t finished this one yet, but i just have to express how happy i am that this channel exists. ceave and perspective/retrospectives-such a brilliant match.
I am so happy you started this channel! Your style perfectly suits this kind of content and I cannot wait for more. Hollow Knight is one of my favorite games and I can really tell this video is crafted with the love it deserves.
-If I may suggest, I would love to see you cover Outer Wilds (my other favorite game) if you have played it!-
-If you haven't, it is similar to Hollow Knight in how impressive it is for an indie game!! In Hollow Knight, like you explained, the lore is super interconnected and integrated into the gameplay/items, but not neccessary to understand to beat the game. In Outer Wilds, the gameplay -*-is-*- the lore, as beating the game is purely based on figuring out the lore/story. It is a 20ish hour game if you aren't spoiled, but can be beaten in 10 minutes if you know what to do, which is why it actually can only be played once, which is also baked into the main theme/message of the story.-
-Based on this video, I think you would love Outer Wilds and I would love to see you cover it in the future!-
Omg, i wrote this comment before finishing the video, I guess I totally called it! Can't wait!
WHAT AN AMAZING VIDEO!
I've already been watching your videos for years, and I love Hollow Knight, so I was sure I was going to love this video for certain. But, the quality of the scripting and editing blew me away! This is better than anything I could have hoped for!
Yessss, I love when people talk about Supraland. I found it at random from Steam recs and it's so much fun
This is one of my favourite games I’ve ever played! It’s so masterfully crafted that I still can’t believe only 3 people created it!
If you need to release more videos, maybe you could release these long retrospectives in parts. This video is already structured like that so it wouldn’t be too hard to do so, and you could even release the full thing once all of the parts are out
Hoo-ray! Great call with the Patreon too! I know even some small channels that've built up hearty patreon support over time, and you definitely deserve a lot more than TH-cam will help with haha.
I shared the shoutout to the Discord as well
I had the same experience of nearly giving up on the game. A lot of people I've talked to also had the same experience and some _did_ give up on the game during the first act before or shortly after getting the Mantis Claw. I put the game down for months after clearing greenpath before I got back into it on a new playthrough, and it became easily one of my favorite games of all time after I gave it that second chance.
Hollow Knight is one of my top three favorite games of all time. I don’t usually 100% games but I had so much fun with this one that I 112% completed the game and got all the achievements, including the infamous Pantheon of Hallownest.
What a brilliant video and a tribute to one of the greatest games ever. I had never, ever noticed that there are no slopes in Hollow Knight!
Thanks for all the work you put into this, it has paid off big time.
Something ive only just realized while Ceave talked about HK's secrets is that, technically, there is a guaranteed way to find Nosk's lair.
If someone is decicated to 100% the game, they will eventually find the collector's map, which highlights every grub's location on the map. Thus, if you originally missed the secret wall, this map will lead you back there.
While this does technically break the idea of HK's secrets, i think the alternative is so late game that it doesnt diminish the coolness of stumbling upon the lair earlier on.
Also, the map allows completionists to finish the game without having to swing their nail at every wall in the game, kind of.
HK is great, but its not flawless, especially with small details like completing the hunter's journal (Goam entry)
Hollow Knight is incredibly good at this very specific thing where it hides stuff well, but keeps telling you that you're probably missing something, so you look harder for it. Your grub example is really good. Other examples include locked doors (there must be a key), missing charms (there must be a shop or area), missing shards/fragments/pale ore needed to complete a set or upgrade-price etc.
HK tricks you into believing you're really clever, observant and lucky. And it works. Because **sometimes** you are. Not every secret is designed like this.
Anyhow, I agree with you more than with the video. It's not that it "breaks the idea of HK's secrets", it's that it explains them better. OP just wasn't too holistic in his analysis.
interestingly, if you watch or read interviews with early game devs, artist and, composers about how they were able to do so much and make such amazing games with so little resources, they touch on a lot of what you talk about here. a dedicated, creative, and passionate team of even a few people can do some truly incredible work and often the end result is grounbreaking and beautiful in a really unique way.
Thank you for this, I think I will try to play through Hollow Knight again. The first time around, a few years ago, I adored the look and feel of the game, while really struggling with and disliking the bench mechanic and the corpse runs it causes (I ended up quitting at Uumuu as a result). This video has definitely reminded me of the things I loved about it.
UPDATE: I have now beaten the final both and gotten both the good and bad endings. This game rules out loud, thank you for getting me back into it!
This is an incredible video essay, an Hollow Knight is one of my favorite games of all time. One thing I'd like to note is that the vessels including the player and the Hollow Knight are genderless as they are made of void. This is referenced in game when Hornet is referred to as the "gendered child" because she is the only child of the Pale King to have a gender.
Edit: I didn't notice until looking back at the video but if you pause at 1:16:37 you can see the white lady refer to the player as 'it' and Hornet as 'the gendered child' and with she/her pronouns.
at 5:57 there's a mistake, going right won't take you anywhere, the way to the false knight is blocked and can only be opened from the left
I never had the mushroom problem myself since I figured out about the "pogo-slash" in the forgotten crossroads since I was just swing my sword around as much as I could and thought "can I swing this up and down?" and after I found out that I could I then proceeded to experiment on what could the down slash do and once I started bouncing off of enemies, I knew that I could bounce off of hazards when I found the PillBug jar after the spikey platforms. But I get the problem since I have a friend who played Hollow Knight alongside me and he ran into this exact same problem.
17:08 I feel so validated whenever I hear someone also not know about pogoing when they reach purple mushrooms that i just had to pause the video and say it
HOLLOW KNIGHT
seriously loving this new channel of yours, i could watch these types of videos for hours!
This was such a well done video. I love the part at the end where he discusses future video plans we can look forward to-- right after discussing the best way to ensure the long term survival of the channel is by donating. Perfect!
This reminded me that I still need to get around to playing Hollow Knight, and wow, that intro made me want to play it a LOT more than I already did. Not only because he sold it really well, but also because playing the game would make me able to watch another Ceave video
It's soooooooooooo good. Can't wait for Silksong.
I remember when I got my hands on Hollow Knight for the first time, I did everything "as intended" until right after Greenpath, where I got the dash. I had no clue where the next clear-cut objective was, so I thoroughly combed through Greenpath and the Forgotten Crossroads to look for exits that led further within the kingdom.
During this excursion, I found...
A. A dark set of rooms to the east of the forgotten crossroads. I couldn't afford the expensive lantern, which was probably necessary to traverse this late-game looking area. Nope.
B. A couple of strange areas in Southern Greenpath. There are some new enemies that can walk in acid and there's an area with dangerous jellyfish called "Fog Canyon", but since I can't seem to find the map guy, I feel hesitant to go through...
C. A weird area with totally different enemies in a secluded area of the Forgotten Crossroads. There's this giant shaft that seems to be part of the "Fungal Wastes", but it's a royal pain in the butt to descend.
Since I was so scared of traversing the powerful Fog Canyon completely blind, I never found out that the path through it from Greenpath led directly to the intended entrance of the Fungal Wastes, the intended 3rd area of the game. Instead, I found the entrance there in the Forgotten Crossroads. This was pretty cool; I never got a steady introduction to the area's enemies, so I was thrust into this strange environment with zero priming. I remember working my way to the left, passing the arbitrary gates meant to restrict players who had come from the left instead of the right like I had. Soon I even discovered the Queen's station and the banker, which were meant to be the first things I had seen in this strange land. It felt good working my way through a living hell to reach the easy part.
Incredible video. I used to watch your other channel's videos years ago when you were just getting started, and I have to say this is on a whole nother level. Im very much so looking forward to that Zelda series, keep up the great work.
Why does this sound like it was narrated by Tiso?
Are you going to be reviewing older games here, or will you also post about new game series?
check the end of last video for the plan on how things will work here
The segment about the bouncy mushrooms really makes me want to see Ceave Gaming try to play Rain World.
Great video! I don’t know if anyone else pointed this out yet, but at 5:45, you say that it’s okay to go in either direction at the start of Forgotten Crossroads. However, you need to go left to get access to the first boss and ability since the boss room is inaccessible from the right due to a lever that must be pulled from below. This game is so huge that you probably overlooked the lever after doing everything else, but it makes going left the “correct” choice. Just wanted to say this in case you’re a stickler for accuracy!
I’d say the first point at which the game gives you a choice between two important paths is the stag station in crossroads, as you can continue to explore the bottom to find Gruz Mother/Sly, or you can explore upwards to find the first boss.
Ceave, you should play ULTRAKILL
CEAVE and HOLLOW KNIGHT? We don’t DESERVE this level of content.
About pacing and geo, I personally had a very different experience. Once I bought the map from cornifer, I could easily figure out where I was without the quill or compass, and the map pointed me towards the false knight. So I got to the stag right before, warped to dirtmouth, didn't have enough geo to buy everything, continued forward and beat the false knight which gave me the geo I needed. It established the importance of defeating bosses for rewards and upgrades and introduced me to the fast travel system.
You can also get 1000 geo without leaving crossroads or grinding
I just discovered this channel and it's such a nostalgic feeling for me to hear you ramble about stuff again. Great work!
Also, the ghosts in the Lost Kin are the *worst*
You do not understand how excited I got when I saw this
omg same lol
AND it’s not just any game… it’s hollow knight
commenting for algorithm
I owe you and this channel a huge amount as it was one of your videos that mentioned hollow knight that got me into playing it. 😊
Ngl, I had almost the same problem with the mushrooms. When i got to them, i knew about pogoing but didnt know you could pogo off them, and was stuck for awhile.
Same for me. I ended up getting dreamnail before mantis claw because of this lol.
46:28 "Most of them are fantastic" Looking at you, Markoth. And you, too, No Eyes.
what an absolutely perfect video essay, great job! you have a very good skill to story tell
I love that you are making these videos. I always knew you had a great eye for game design but wished you delved further into games when I watched your main channel, and now we are getting that. Glad that you are back and good luck with your future endeavors!
You described exactly how I feel about the game better than I ever could, along with educating me on the things I never knew!
This is kinda the only 1h+ long video I have actually watched and not having in the background while doing other stuff. Great video, thanks.
Amazing video! This is my favourite game of all time and you explained things so well and even talked about stuff i never really noticed before, all this content and you never even managed to cover all bosses or the god home (pantheons) which just shows how massive and incredible this game is. Thank you for the amazing work you do as a creator.
I had zero clue about the lore even though I've literally beaten pantheon 5 and have done absolute radiance radiant it was so cool to learn about all those cool little details
th-cam.com/video/0XDiWYFGGqY/w-d-xo.html
@@the_legendary_fire sent you a link for mossbag lore video, good watch and he does his research on hollow knight lore.
The explanation as to how Hollow Knight exists at the end of the video was absolutely FASCINATING. It never occurred to me while playing (I played some 10 hours of the game before dropping it) that there were no slopes, how repetitive the background elements were, the lack of a real lighting engine, none of these minor things impacted the game experience at all (except maybe slopes but w/e). I remember being absolutely dumbfounded at how the background and gameplay looked, and I never thought about the lack of a lighting engine or anything stupid like that. That segment opened my eyes as to how Team Cherry was able to create this absolute masterpiece of a game (that really wasn't for me), and I only hope more small game developers can learn from this in the future.
So glad i found this channel. Watched your main channel for a long time, even though im not much of a mario fan. You have such an ability to tell a story. Im so excited to see you talk about other games too!
was really missing your content and am so happy to have you back - especially with bangers like this. More than happy to support channels like yours on Patreon!
amazingwork
The only reason I played this game was, because you mentioned it once in one of your old videos and then it became one of my favorite games of all time and really got me into so many other indie games, so thank you so much. Did not expect to ever see you talk about this game again.
16:45 While I figured out after a bit that you could pogo off of mushrooms, I didn't learn you could pogo off of spikes/blades until after I 112%'d the game and looked up Path of Pain.
46:09 I've never cared for boss fights in games before Hollow Knight. They usually felt like annoying diversions from the main game, but it was the exact opposite for Hollow Knight. I actually looked forward to the bosses. And Godhome took that to another level of appreciation.
loved your angles, great stuff man
this was spot on, ceave - been a fan for years, glad to see you spreading your wings with this channel
Your experience in Deepnest was very simmilar to mine, but I realize the checkpoint trap before satting, so I didnt, I then, when I found Nosk , died, so it become a personal quest of mine to became stronger and come back to fight this boss
One of my favorite youtubers praising my favorite game. Just awsome. The video was great and very in depth.
I did miss a mention of how you can just pogo a background object to skip wings simularly to how you can do an acidskip to skip ismas.
As someone with thousands of hoursin this game I found it very enjoyable to get a reminder of why I initially fell in love with this game.
Love your work, your editing style and narration is so good and works so well
Yes another video from my favorite new channel. Love your content. ❤ keep it up!
That's a very informative nice video. Love the long format.
This channel is amazing. Thank you so much for this in depth analysis of my favourite game!
57:56 HOLY FUZZY