Wadcutters for Defense! Ballistic Test - Magtech .38 Special VS .32 S&W Long
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2023
- Testing in my snub nose revolvers 148 gr .38 Special wadcutter VS 90 gr .32 S&W Long wadcutter in a 10% Clear Ballistics test. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
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Sir, from years of packing a Charter Arms Undercoverette .32 as a back-up to my duty revolver, the very fast 6-shot Charter Arms snubby served me well. When I purchased it in the mid-1970's, I was really looking for a .38 Special Undercover. None to be had, hot seller, along with that .44 Bulldog they marketed. Many of my brother officers used the Undercover .38 as a back-up. Reliable, not expensive, and a rugged design that took into account the hard wear and tear that anactive cop puts on his equipment. The Undercoverette .32 was available and dirt cheap brand new. I just did not want to put a high dollar Colt Detective Special, Colt Agent, or S&W Model 36 in my ankle holster, and it catch hell every day I was at work. Wet, hot Georgia summers, cold, wet winters was waiting on the ankle positive back-up snubby. During this time, through recommendations from some of my gun friends, I used the 90gr. wadcutter .32 Long as my duty ammo for this back-up. Qualified yearly with it, and after a long career ride on my ankle, when I retired in 2020, it was a far cry from the new Undercoverette that I first Putin my ankle holster. Well worn would be a generous description. I sent it back to Charter Arms for a refurbishment and I included a short note of my appreciation for the decades of service it had given me as my back-up. It came back a month later, with a new finish, new rubber factory grips, and a note of their appreciation for my service to the community I served. I cannot say enough good things about the fine Charter Arms people!
I carry 150 grain Underwood wadcutters in my 642 and LCR 38sp. They are loaded pretty hot and have good stats. On a side note I have my grandfather's S&W 32 long he bought around 1930...Still locks up tight and shoots well.
How's the recoil compared to a 148gr wsdcutter ?
I recently bought some of these Magtech 38 Special Wadcutters. They were relatively inexpensive (today's standards). They are soft & accurate shooting.
I would love to see Underwood 38 special 150 grain wadcutter with their proprietary black cherry coating. It’s one of the 38’s that are in my carry rotation.
I carry the Fiocchi 148 grain wadcutters in my LCR and Airweight and feel like they have enough stopping power, are easy to shoot one handed, and won't overpenetrate and hit innocents.
Filmed 7/26/23
I'm a old marksman and I greatly advocate soft lead hollow points with gas checks and hardcast full wadcutters of 16 to 18 percent brinnel hardness factor. if I remember correctly one company manufacturers a 38 wadcutter of 16or18 hardness factor they advertised anti personal ammunition around 900+ fps.ive not shot them but want to order some to reload and test on pork shoulders with the bones in for penetration and make me pork barbecue when do,so meat won't be wasted. I greatly enjoyed the video. Papa wishing you well 😊
I was glad to see that gel test. I just put a cylinder on an 1851 Navy that allows it to fire 38 special cartridges. Because the bore diameter of the .36 caliber cap and ball is .375 (not .358) you need the hollow base of a wadcutter to get any decent accuracy.
jim croce song ''bad bad leroy brown'' song about a big south side chicago guy who carried a 32
Nice demonstration! I've never carried wadcutters, but I've shot them out of my GP100 on a couple occasions. Very easy-shooting & lots of fun. Thanks for the video!
Always great information we know we can count on. Thanks!
I wait all day long every day waiting for tests like this to come out !!
GS. Good video. Interesting ammo. As always nice shooting. Thanks for sharing. Take care.
Long time revolver lover, new subscriber. Recently picked up an LCR 38 SP and came across your channel.
Really enjoy the format and down to earth take based on your experience.
Both did better than expected. Wouldn’t be my go to but isn’t a bad option either. Great video.
Thanks Gun Sam. I recently purchased these very wadcutters for my 38 and very much appreciate you putting them through your signature evaluation! I still haven't made it to the range to try them out in my.. ahem.. Chiappa 30ds (whispered cough). But hoping to soon! :)
Good to see you included trying to reload wadcutters w/a speedloader. Good shooting w/those little guns!
Thank you very much for this video. I wanted to see a test like this about the magtech 38 spe :D
just watched the video we just mentioned wadcutters in the comment on another one of your videos I believe yesterday, so this popped up in my feed today. definitely looking forward to shooting my 38 special wadcutter ammo when I get an opportunity. hoping to buy land soon so I can set up my own range
I think the problem with the .38 Special at a distance is the quality of the ammo. Those 5 shots produce an SD of 16.08 or 2.59% - When I handload wadcutters, I know I have a good batch if it chronographs at 1.0% or less. I wonder of "Match quality" .38 Wadcutters would do better at 25 and 75 yards.
I have seen those Federal match wadcutters before. I don't recall the velocity variation on the wadcutters I used to handload except for my recent video with a few I did with Universal which weren't great but I really liked the Hornady bullets as they always shot clean.
I often carry my 38 lcr and wish I could get my hands on some good WC’s. Just a bit old school but they’ll do the job. Could be me that’s old school! Another great video sir.
I remember many years ago gun writers experimenting with hollow base wadcutters loaded backwards. Also, there was a company selling a two piece mold. The idea being you cast the base of the bullet with hard lead, the nose with soft lead and then glue the two together. They could then be loaded to higher velocity with less leading. All this in an effort to get expansion in a snubnose.
I'm gonna try to find some wad cutters for my 38. Thanks for the vids!
38 is such an awesome little cartridge, so versatile and very pleasant to shoot. Ive had several snub noses over the years in 38 and i even have an 1851 navy with a 7.5 inch barrel converted over to it. Its a fun plinker and actually one i use in the woods alot, i also have a rossi trapper lever action with 16 inch barrel in 357 but i pretty much only shoot 38s in it just because. Its basically the recoil of a 22 it seems.
Sam, I love your videos. I don't understand your desire to shoot handguns at 75 yards, but hey... it's your show and your ammo.
I like challenges. If I didn't have challenges, I would get bored fast. Shooting at like 21 feet like everyone else, is so boring.
Your videos alone made me switch my LCR carry load to the .32SWL JHP.
Much cheaper than .327 fed mag ammo, so more opportunity to practice.
Another good one, thanks.
Great info 38 wadcutters 148 grain will do the job🇺🇸🇺🇸
Great video. As with all things firearms, the combo of gun and round and load is key, and your other video on the Buffalo Bore hard cast wadcutter .32 S&W Long would seem proof of concept and bump up this round in this LCR as a good, if not GREAT, carry option for most people’s needs, all while mitigating overpenetration, which is a real concern for home defense and urban settings where most people experience defensive gun use. Also, having shot various rounds through a .327 LCR, there is something to be said for better sight acquisition w the aforementioned round.
I have been using Choice Ammunition 38 Special 105 grain cowboy action loads in my SP101 snub-nose. They are quite accurate, and are very low felt recoil. I haven’t been able to find any ballistic gel test data on them, so I think it would be great if you would do a similar test on them.
For all the people who think they want Wadcutters for thw low recoil , and good accuracy , the SASS style " Cowboy " .38 Special ( as a class ) are even more low recoil .
I don't think Sam has tested any , but the
38 Short Colt he has tested , are very similar ballistics .
Good video. I like 22lr for its low recoil. Now I'm rethinking 32 wadcutter. Nice to have options.
Thanks Mr Sam.
Great test! As you say quieter is good, with full power 327s and no hearing protection, a person's ears fall off on the ground...
The only .32 long that I would feel comfortable using for self defense is probably the buffalo bore .32 long hardcast 100 grain wadcutters. You've tested them several times so you know. But a close runner up would be the Sellier & bellot 100 grain wadcutters. S&B on their website says they get 735 fps, with 120 fpe and from what i've heard they get pretty close to that even out of a short barrel. I'm not sure if you have tested those, I can't recall, but as far as I know they come in 2nd place after buffalo bore's offerings for hottest .32 long load within saami specs. .32 long is one of those calibers that are probably best handloaded as there are only a couple factory loaded options that even come close to taking full advantage of the cartridge's potential. It seems like most ammo manufactuers underload this caliber to pathetically weak levels. And I'm pretty sure the reason behind that is the ancient top break .32 long revolvers that are still around that might not be able to handle the pressure of the higher end loads in the caliber and they are probably afraid of lawsuits. That's the only thing I can think of..
Good post. I agree.
I agree 100 percent. I chronigraphed some new 98 gr lrn today and they averaged 540 fps. A vintage box of Westerns hit almost 700.
My mom would use a .22 pistol for a house gun until I got her a .32 long with wadcutters. Has the same recoil with more stopping power in my opinion.
I have Mag Tech wadcutters in my 1967 Charter Arms.
When it comes to combat handguns - shot placement is way important than every variable
.... Good ol 1.9" combat snub nose revolvers ...
Smh
My suggestion for the reload is to run the WC in the cylinder and SWC in the speed loader.
The interesting thing is that these are among the slower WC loads (IIRC the Winchesters are significantly faster). However at least in the 38 those are quite adequate even at the lower velocity. There are 98gr 32 loads which might handle the MDF better.
Thank you.
Tests reveal reality.
👍😊 the real world test they expanded.
I think wadcutters are very viable for self defense. Or flat nose jacketed rounds.
Sam did a vid that included some of his hand loaded fmj flat nose rounds, through some pretty stout frying pans & through a tightly bound stack of thick magazines. That round punched right through the pans, & out-damaged a .357 round through the magazines.
@@Grolock751ah yes, magazines and a soft metal pot - perfectly replicates the human body
@@nfaisnfgay The test was just for curiosity about penetration through different barriers. That was all. Snarky comments add nothing useful to the conversation, especially when they're coming from ignorance.
Glad you made a wadcutter video. They pretty much performed as expected and show they’re still a relevant option for at least the first-ups out of a 2-3 inch revolver. The gang that gets together for Tac-Con has highlighted the wadcutter as a viable option for self defense in snubbies for the past couple of years. 148/158:grain bullets generally shoot POA out of my Js out to 25 yards while popular 110 grain defensive loads don’t. The LEOSA qualification course for my state goes out to 25 yards regardless of which handgun one is shooting. During one such event I first expended 10-15 hollow points I’d been carrying and finished out the rest of the course with wadcutters. The instructor scoring the targets first thought I didn’t qualify because there were two different shapes of holes in the paper and further believed the guy on the next lane had shot my target. I was fine after explaining it to him. He grew up in a revolver-free world. Anyway, I wish the manufacturers would shift their lines to make more .38 Special wadcutters and semi wadcutters than the over priced 130 grain FMJ and 158 grain RNL we currently find on the shelves. A wadcutter with 800 fps average from a two inch would be ideal.
★ Good comparison. Also, interesting. Thanks.
Good video. You may need a .357/.44 mag session now to shock yourself back to reality
38 Special wad cutter loads in a revolver is what I recommend for people needing low recoil and ease of loading/unloading.
hay sam, i use 38 wads in my s&w 66 2 3/4 brl but i load 38+p in speed loader, faster and better reloads on the fly....also carry magtech 32 hollow pts in my lcrx and 32 hr magnum in speed loader... lcrx is pocket carry and s&w winter carry cross draw osw....both very nice and reliable....thanks for keeping us revolver guys in step....
Thanks for the. 32 test. I love my H&R 32
Nice Freehand shooting with the stubbies.
Both look very shootable due to low recoil and follow up shots are easier. The 32 has the edge here and has one more round compared to the 38. The 32 seems like a better choice for home defense because then we can use a revolver with a longer barrel and get a bit more velocity out of it while having less blast than a 38 inside the house. Having an extra round in a small gun appeals to me more than the 38's higher power loading. Wadcutter ammo is harder to find so both 32 and 38 have to be ordered online, so it is a toss up there. Thanks for another great video.
The HSM .38 is a 158 grain flat nose. They shoot great in my SP 101. They are cowboy action loads
Well. I load three Buffalo Bore Anti-Personel 200 grain .44 Special wad-cutters after two 200 grain Gold Dot Blasers in my Charter Bulldog Pug. So that tells you how i think.
Got some .358 cast wad-cutter slugs I load in .357 with a stiff charge of Unique, and they are very special. Yea.
.32 on the Docken drill was impressive
I just got a CSX for ccw (wonderful gun!) But now you're making me want a 6 shot 327 federal again...
I remember as a kid, my father and uncle were putting a 55 gallon drum in the ground for my grandmother's washing machine. They had her short barrelled 32.revolver, mabe 3 inches, and bullets wouldn't penetrate the bottom of the barrel, making holes for drainage.
.32 caliber bullets way back in the day, were often pure lead. They flattened rather than penetrated hard objects.
Thanks for the suggestion, just watched Death Wish (1974), great movie👍
Hard to believe it was made almost a half a century ago.
@@MrLanternland Ain't that the truth!
I use standard press 38spl wadcutters in my RIA m206.Because hollowpoints won't expand. I use 38+p Hollowpoints in my SP101. They'll expand.
I'd like to see the 32 H&R Magnum in the mix.
My “car carry” 686 plus is loaded with Buffalo bore .38 WC atm! It’s a 5 inch so I get like 1050-1100 fps would love to see a test on car doors.
*maybe even more fps now that I watched more of your vids just going by the site 🤷🏻♂️
The S&W Long impressed me but the 32 Mag is the goldilocks cartridge in the 32 caliber line IMO.
Very nice video, wadcutters generally used in sports shooting in General sports pistol,I recently purchased 1911.45:acp pistol I have only s&b ppu,geco rounds If every tested these ammo plz send me the link
Precision One makes 38Spl wad cutters using the Berry plated bullets. So no leading. I haven't had a chance to test them for accuracy or consistency. I'm not sure what to expect from them as I've got no familiarity with that brand.
Your cylinder dump of the 32s up close was pretty cool. I'm sure they are better than 22s, but not by much.
With lead round nose its a lot better than .22lr
Manyz years ago when I was qualifying with a SW31-1, on the last stage my earpro fell out. I shot anyway and my ears did not ring. I'm not saying they are hearing safe, but they aren't ear blasters. I was using just run of the mill lead roundnose ammo. I carried some custom 115gr hard cast lead flat points usually in the cylinder.
I know what you mean. The typical charge in a 148 gr wadcutter is what I had behind some 200 gr .38 Special "SuperPolice" rounds I had made as the seating depth put the bullet to a wadcutter depth so I went with it. Was getting like 650 FPS in the 2" snub, and I shot some with no ear pro. Was like shooting a .22 with just a little loud snapping, wasn't uncomfortable at all, never had ringing ears after that.
Ordered the new S&W 632UC and should have it within a few weeks. Planning on using WADCUTTERS instead of HP's.
Better than a sharp stick .
more evidence than the .32 is allegedly the best self defense handgun for most people
I carry 148 HBWC in my LCR but they are a bit hotter than the Magtech. My reload is Gold Dot 135 gr JHP+P short barrel.
This is a good test . I was how the 38 splec. would be with the 327 mag . In WC.Also how it work in a 32 H&R Mag .
It is common for slow wadcutters to tumble at extended ranges. Yours are tumbling.
Magtech wadcutters show comet tails on paper and evidence of instability at 25 yards through my 3 inch H and R 832 32 Long.
Fiocchi brand chrono faster typically and show less yaw.
At sedate velocities wadcutters of this sort are range limited for stability reasons alone.
327 Federal Magnum is the Most Versatile Revolver Chambering. Full power loads are as powerful as 10mm or 357 magnum. Also chambers the soft shooting 32 S&W Long.
And has 6 rounds!
For self defense, I would use a hard cast wadcutter. JMHO.
Nice
I've got .32 S&W long wadcutters in my 2" barrel S&W model 30 as I watch this.
Hi Sam sure hope you are feeling better. How do you feel about 148 gr. cast semi wad cutter vs the same weight cast full wad cutter. Is the semi as good as the full for self defense 38 cal with the same power charge and primers. Regards John.
Now you'll have to test the Remington .38 special 158 grain lead semi-wadcutters which used to be advocated 50 years ago. Are they better than wadcutters?
i like wadcutters. I've seen wadcutters for 44 special and 44 magnum light loaded.
I prefer wadcutters and hard cast
A .32 S&W Long WC Hammerli semi and .38 S&W WC semi used in international target pistol were both considered the "gold" standard olympic competition as well as the "22" in biathlon...
Accuracy...no doubt...i gotta get me a 32...
So for self defence lead round nose would be better for .32 long. Strange that the denim and board cut the penetration in half.
FMJ's in .32 Long also do well if I recall.
I disagree. I would try better WCs or SWC over the LRN or worse FMJ. You can get heavier and faster .32 WCs from other manufacturers.
@@mkshffr4936 Yes he also tested Fiocchi wadcutters. They made 650fps and had 11 inches of penetration with mdf and 16 without. This would be ok.
And….match wadcutters have issues at 75 yards as well. The match part don’t help.
The low velocity lends fewer rpm’s and the square front of the bullet produces turbulence to the aerodynamics that play off each other to eventually destabilize the bullet.
Common knowledge among long time Bullseye competitors, of which I am one.
There is a reason flat fronted hollowbase wadcutters are not used beyond 50 yards in competition. In addition the longer barrels obtain closer to stated averages of 775 fps which helps delay stability issues….but fifty yards is all that is reliably obtained most of the time.
Colts were thought to have some effect on delaying instability due to their 1-14 twist versus the Smith and likely Taurus 1-18.75” twist.
If speeds were adequate the Smiths will shoot hollowbase wadcutters very accurately at 50.
Due to limitations of safety (skirt separation lodging in barrel) hollowbase wadcutters should not exceed 800 fps or so from 4 inch barrels and proportionately less from snubbies.
For 38 hollowbase wadcutters about 710 fps is a good upper limit of velocity from 1.875-2” barrels. These will shoot well to 50 with such
speeds.
Wrong
32 Long is outrageously accurate. 90 Percent of shooters will hit more accurately with 32 Long than any other revolver cartridge. Especially from a Snub Nose.
Oh stop
@@DinoNucci Facts don’t care about your feelings
Just noticed something in rewatching this. In the slo-mo it looked like the 32 through the MDF actually penetrated a few inches more and snapped back. Was that an illusion.
Have you done a testing with wadcutters/simi wadcutters via the 45 ACP Auto? If not, that will be interesting.
No, I generally don't see ammo like that other than maybe SWC ammo online from time to time.
Have you ever tried the Buffalo Bore 38 wadcutters? They are advised as full power.
Good test , but it shows that neither of these are up to the task. .38 shooters should stick with the proven performing hollow points .
🙂👍
H&R Magnum handload 100 grain with 3.0 grain BE gives me an average of 870 fps and an ES of 18 in my LCR. X ring accuracy at 10 yards. Clueless of accuracy at distance, as I do not have your amazing skill set with snubbies. I think a muzzleloader would be faster and less frustrating to reload than a speedloader full of wadcutters!
I saw a test for CCI 22 LR Velocitors , out of a 3.5" ruger auto SR22 = 96 ft Lbs VS the 32 you have for this test = 75 ft lbs . Don't dis 22 Velocitors .
Ft lbs though, isn't necessarily everything. The bullet weight at 98 gr is something especially when it's rare to get a .22 LR expanded to .312" and still penetrate beyond 8" in plain gel.
@@GunSam Velocitors are rare 22Lr Bullets & out shoot most all the rest . BTW even a Ruger LCP 22 2.75" ( never owned or shot one ) can do that & are 10+1 & can reload 10 Fast .
I found an old H&R 32 S&W revolver, and re-bored the cyl to take the S&W long cartridge. The only rounds that fit are wad cutters. It is the most accurate gun I have at 40 feet or less. Go figure.
Not terrible with 38. Not my choice if better options are available. But 38 should be effective.
I know you handload like I do. Can you conduct a test of the 327 Federal with 1:01 Speer 98 wadcutters over 2.8 grains of Bullseye powder my 327 Federal is a Ruger Single Seven with 4.62" barrel. I'd like to get the Taurus 327 Federal revolver with a 2" barrel.
Have you had any issues with light strikes with the magtech wadcutters? I ran about half a box worth thru my model 640 and had 2 lighter strikes, considering changing to a longer firing pin to avoid it since I haven't had that issue with any other brand yet
No problems
@GunSam ran my other box that I bought thru today with the extended firing pin and still had issues with light strikes or even just not firing rounds, would give up after 3 primer strikes, happened to 4 of the wadcutters out of the 50, but other brands of 38/357 I ran 150 rounds no issues. Very sad since I like this ammo and would carry it but will not due to these inconsistencies. I even tried other types of magtech 38 and the 125 fmj and 158 sjhp had no issues at all.
Where did you find magtec awesome stuff be safe Peace
I think it was on Lucky Gunner website. I buy so much ammo I forget where I get everything.
Buffalo bore makes a .32 long wadcutter, and I'd be interested in seeing if they perform any better. Think you could aquire some and do a video about them?
No reason I would as I am pretty sure I already tested them.
RoaR
I got a 32 gun in my pocket for fun, I got a razor in my shoe.
At 10:19, when you shot that last round of the 32, wonder if it was a dude or something because the sound of it was way different than the rest, almost muffled .
Honest question, will a sub-700 fps round have any effective lethality?
That's the actual entire point of the video
With all the fantastic defence bullets out there today only a fool or a Fudd would use those, your just going to get a rathole wound just like a unexpanded hp so better stick with slow hp at least it has a chance of expanding.Of coursexthey could still work but rathole bullets that do not hit cns or heart are not going to stop fast especially those weakling rounds, in fact a assailant may not even know they have been hit.
I'm not underestimating either of those cartridges with any bullet they have sent thousands to the promised land as popular as they were decades back with civilian and police, but those are target rounds now those wadcutters to say anything other is not correct and with all the testing you do you know.
While id rather have an unexpanded hollow point due to it's more robust design, the issue is some people really have an issue with recoil, and a 148 GR wadcutter can deliver as much energy and wounding power with less powder due to less bore friction. The recoil is closer to .22 mag, so if someone can only handle about .22 mag recoil, a .32 or .38 wadcutter makes more sense. It's not really a .38 JHP vs .38 wadcutter discussion, it's more of a discussion that a wadcutter is better than nothing or a .22.
We really should come up with a new name for the "Dickens Drill," because Eli Dickens only took four shots at forty yards before moving closer to the shooter, and he missed two of them, then hit all four shots taken at twenty yards and both shots taken at twenty to twenty-five feet.
It's like trying to tell people the 100% truth that the Vikings discovered the new world, but people will still automatically be like "Christopher Columbus".
Plus it's burned into the minds of people that 10 shots at 40 yards is where it's at, and to be honest it's a decent drill. If I was a mass shooter in the works and I knew every mall was full of people who focused on 40 yard precision rather than other worthless tactics, i'd not want to go there.
Try not to put the man down,.. He’s no doubt saved more people than you have …Give the young man credit.
@@mikeseier4449 I'm sorry if I came off critical of Dickens - he's a hero, plain and simple. My beef is with calling a drill consisting of ten shots from forty yards a "Dickens Drill," because it doesn't reflect his actions on that fateful day.
@@MartinVenerosoNo problem,.. I guess it’s a bit incorrect to assume all shots were at that distance, But as Sam says; It’s still a challenging drill. All cool👍
Why can’t you just do velocity at same time as shooting gel?
One, when I have tried it only 50% of the time I get a read, which becomes useless information. Two, often times the way I use 3" of gel on the front, will fall off, knock over my chronograph and damage my tripod. Three - getting chronograph reads is hard, you have to go over the sensors exactly - so it takes 5 minutes of setup time and adjustment to have the right angle PER SHOT to get it right in front of the gel, when I can do it once in front of a target. If you want to ask how I know all these things....well, don't.
Algorithm
I just loaded a box of 148gr. WC bullets. The manual said 900+ fps but they don't specify barrel length. If SWC beats LRN for terminal performance, a WC will chop thru. From a snub, it is hard to get expansion in a controllable load, I guess. So the WC has to equal or better a lighter bullet that still does not expand reliably. I would be surprised if a standard velocity WC in a snub would have excessive over penetration but I will watch the test,..........