I would say that the octopi would have long since developed writing at this stage mainly because you had them stay put in the same marsh for hundreds of thousands of years. They weren't just mastering agriculture during that time but also construction with hardened and treated mud and grown plants as the material. So it makes sense that they would initially use mud tablets initially before transitioning to parchment for longevity using their own ink as a writing tool. This means that by the time they encounter the alien artifacts they would already have a highly advanced literary system for the time and it is from that point they incorporate and modify the alien language for their own use. Though after this micro merge or rather cultural absorption the preferred writing material might be a bit of parchment with a thin layer of mud to better preserve the ink that the symbols are written in.
Writing is the first example of "off-site memory storage" as we begin to get words/thoughts out of our heads and saved somewhere that others can access them even if we are not there.
I've been watching these a bit out of order, so after watching the trade routes video I was having worries about whether my winged people always (or almost always?) getting their writing from copying it from the local sedentary humans would be valid, but then when I watched this, a lot of my questions were answered and raised a few helpful ones. These videos also help drive new ideas I wanted to find and explore (the desert video being a prime example) and I appreciate them so much. Thank you for making these!
I'm really glad to hear the series is helpful, and that you have been enjoying the videos! Writing definitely can be borrowed from other cultures, and there's lots of real-world examples of that happening. In English, a huge number of our words are borrowed!
@@WorldbuildingCorner Yeah, in real life only a few cultures developed writing independently. Most borrowed from another culture, and some created their own after being exposed to writing form other cultures.
I went through every single one of your videos in a playlist, and they are fantastic. I've dabbled in it a bit using Artifexian's videos, mostly on climate and biome placements, and have a pretty workable map, but the speculative biology and species emergence parts are fantastic, the set up for the galaxy and solarsystems were brill and the conlang stuff was infinitely clearer than other videos I've watched in the past. I look forward to your future releases and to stealing all of it like a good lil' Na'qwuil.
Thank you very much for the positive feedback! Artifexian is a huge inspiration, feels awesome even being in the same conversation as him. Glad you have enjoyed the series so far and found the content helpful. Stay tuned for more soon :)
A new video from this fantastic channel has arrived and about a truly fascinating theme. Matthew, words can't describe how much of a help your channel and you have been to me and my "Men before Men" project after i lose my inspiration for a couple of months. I love this channel and i think you deserve more followers.
You have given me an idea for the Drow writing system: The first Drow group, called the Silt Drows, have first developed a writing system that works in a way similar to heraldic, but with macramé knots made out of water-plant ropes. This was used as a way to avoid inbreeding and promote the supremacy of a family over others, as well as to remember which family did what treaty with what group for ressource access, to avoid unnecessary conflicts. The overall shape, the specific type of knot used and weather, the ornaments woven in the pattern or wither not the threads where ash-treated were imported symbols used to trace down family trees. For example, a family that would wear a net made in the way of a spider-web would symbolize a family line of medics or craftsmen. The reason why spider-related iconography have become prominent in most Drow cultures is because of how necessary spiders are to their civilisations. They need to make bandages that stops bleeding, and for settlements in which heating up metal or stone tools for cauterization is impractical, spider-silk is absolutely necessary for medicine as a way to slow down blood loss. Also, since spider-silk can become extremely solid once woven, it can also be used for certain types of armor, becoming highly useful in war-torn settlements. Also, the making of spider-silk products require a high degree of skill, which again, makes this commodity and the spiders that provide it extremely valuable. Not to mention, it's the only type of textile available in cave settings. As the Drow travelled inland and diversified, this system became quite inadequate, and thus was born a way to draw symbols for different things. The two surviving settlements, the city of Pyroxene and the city of Emeralds had developed quite far appart were very linguistically distinct. The city of Pyroxene have developed a writing system that is a syllabary, since they have quite the simple system, along side a few extra symbols that are kept silent to mark palletization while smiling on vowels. The city of Emerald uses an alphabet as it has so many vowels and consonant clusters that using most other writing systems would be impractical.
Extremely cool! It is nice to see drow given so much flavour, I love hearing about them in your world! It's also so satisfying when in-world worldbuilding contributes to languages and writing too. Makes the world feel really organic.
Almost a thousand subs, WoCo!! Congrats! And... y'know having not actually gone back to look at the earlier planet-building videos yet, I feel like I made that discovery at the same time as the Squidfolks. (Whose name I keep forgetting how to spell, which seems very on-brand for them.) What in tarnation. That thing about the Urakan having a formal and casual script gave me Ideas. One of my regions - set in a temperate rainforest with Big Honking Redwoods - now has a traditional runic script that's written top to bottom and a casual script that they borrowed from a neighboring empire at one point. Which handily solves a worldbuilding puzzle that I had written myself into during NaNoWriMo. :D These videos are swiftly becoming ones that I keep referring back to because I am SO not a conlanger by nature.
Thank you! Haha the Na'qwuil are kind of like my 'local aliens' on Locus, they're cool but mysterious and very strange. Glad the Urakan were able to inspire you! Imagine how awe inspiring seeing a giant redwood covered in ancient script would be... They can live for thousands of years. I'm not sure writing would survive on surface bark that long, but even across shorter timespans that concept is so cool to me. Very awesome!
I am loving this series so far, and I appreciate the impressive pace you keep with your upload schedule. I sure hope though that humans will be a bit more interesting and diverse than just all speaking modern English unchanging throughout the entire history of civilization. I understand the need for a 'common' lingua franca in your fiction to be your local real world language, but I always look at it as an assumed translation. In fact it doesn't really make sense otherwise. I love everything else, can't wait for what kind of Lovecraftian horror crawls out of this combination of brain-parasites and ancient aliens. That reminds me, there is one language on this planet that's expected to have loanwords from all kinds of languages non-existent on this planet but no influence from any of the actual local ones. One that might influence some of the local languages but is not expected to change over time. It's not any local human language but you do have one believable candidate. If you really want to physically pin English into your world... Just saying.
The languages across the board will evolve over time, what I've presented is their usable foundations circa dawn of civilisation. Regarding humans speaking and writing "English", your assumption of translation for our convenience is absolutely correct. They certainly would have their own unique languages that are not English that will evolve and diversify across time, which I have not presented in this video to keep things simplified (and keep video length manageable). What we see is simply the 'translation'. I perhaps did not make this clear in the video, but it is interesting how polarizing this point has been. I am glad you are enjoying the content 😊
@@WorldbuildingCorner I guess you reached the point where things get messy. With orbits and luminosities and whatnot you're either correct or not (and if not there's still a magic system in place to handwave stuff) But with culture we'll all have our opinions. Thanks for clarifying anyways, and keep up the great work.
3:10 One small correction. In abugidas, the base characters to which the diacritics and other modifying characters are added, have an inherent vowel attached. for example, in hiragana, ka is か and ga is が. They look the same, but が (ga) has a modifying diacritic to chance the consonant the vowel is inherently attached to. Of course, there are exceptions when it comes to abugidas, but hiragana and katakana are one such examples.
4:00 - this claim is incorrect. The alphabetic Ogham script of Ireland and Scotland arose independently (unlike, say, Germanic runes which ultimately came from Egyptian hieroglyphs via Phoenician, Greek and Latin)
another great video! ive been working in my own world on a non-linear writing system, originating from military strategy diagrams scratched into the dirt (my peoples have a long history of war between tribes and nations). one of the parts that's always felt the least natural in its transition from a visual aid to a proper writing system has been entry points; im thinking i may borrow the ananatgrian idea of what is functionally a punctuation mark that states where a page of text begins. one thing i'll mention that isn't coming up in your world but might be helpful to others, is the links between writing and tone. since most natural tonal languages are east and southeast asian, there's definitely a stronger correlation for tonal languages to be logographies; however, Cherokee uses a syllabary and chooses to leave tone unmarked, and Igbo uses an alphabet and marks tones with diacritics. I do wanna shout out Ńdébé as an absolutely gorgeous syllabary (self described; it functions amazingly similarly to Hangul in the its elegance of interrelatedness with its syllables, featurally marking onset, vowel and tone) based on Nsibidi, and everyone who has even a passing interest in linguistics I highly recommend to go check it out!
Yet another great video! I have no idea how you keep up such high quality videos on such a frequent release schedule. The Urakan's use of two scripts has given me some inspiration, I wonder what conditions would lead to more than two scripts being in use? Maybe a highly culturally diverse city which has to use so many scripts for all of its inhabitants?
Thank you for the positive feedback! I enjoy making the videos, it's become somewhat of a passion now! I actually wonder whether a highly multicultural city might make more pressure for a single universal script. City officials and traders would likely use a single language and script for simplicity, and those wanting to successfully integrate would need to learn. Especially in the earlier days of civilisation. I think the best precedent we have for multiple languages and scripts developing is cultural divide, especially a divide of class or education, or both. One for the 'masses', one for the 'elite' kind of thing. Or a professional script, kind of like how French was used in legal proceedings for a period of time, even in English speaking countries.
@@WorldbuildingCorner Yeah, that makes more sense, I imagine this new universal script would spread beyond the city as a sort of lingua franca, as it would likely be designed to be easily learned.
I reckon you can get a pretty good mileage out of an abjad, or certainly an abugida even with a decent amount vowels if you have a strict vowel harmony.
I am by no means an abjad and abugida 'expert' but my research has shown no abjad with more vowel sounds than 7, with 5 or 6 seeming to be the most common amount. Devanagari however is an abugida with 14 vowel sounds, which is reasonably high, so you're right it's certainly plausible! Most abugidas tend to sit around the 7-10 vowel sounds range though.
@@WorldbuildingCorner Oh yes this is certainly on the edge of plausible, and you're right an abjad is probably pushing it. I was actually thinking 8-10 so now I'm pleased your research is so close to my wild guesstimate.
@@WorldbuildingCorner I actually wrote a book but it was completely awful. Poor Descriptive imagery, a lot of spelling and grammar errors, and the book was over 820 pages long. Yeah so I am trying to get better.
I have a species that is capable of releasing powerful pheromones with different meanings, which is how they communicated before spoken language allowed them to express more complex thoughts. Even after that, pheromones play a big part of how they 'speak' to each other. So a writing system would have to keep that in mind, with different symbols symbolizing the different emotions expressed that way. Kinda like how people on the internet now use things at the end of their sentences to indicate tone, like /j for joking or /lh for lighthearted, lol. Though I'd rather have not have them wait until the end of the sentence- perhaps something similar to how Abugida conlangs have markings for vowels? In that case, it doesn't make sense for them to develop an abugida script as it would be seen as too cluttered. As for what they write on- it probably /would/ be something like papyrus, as they live in a marsh-like area where extremely tall grasses grow abundantly, and most of the things they have are either made of it or made to remove/collect it. Plus, even before they come up with a writing system they already had 'paint' they used to draw on their bodies and tents, so they wouldn't have trouble finding something to write with. . ..Sorry for the long comment, it's just that this video gave me a ton of inspiration that I'm so excited about I wished to share it. Now I just have to figure out what kind of spoken language they would have in the first place! What sort of sounds would a species with a snake-like jaw and throat be able to make?!
Conveying emotions is a really interesting concept for script actually. We as humans irl convey much of our emotion visually, so even with our scripts, it is far easier to convey emotions through pictograms, which in modern terms is emojis! 👀😄🤯🙌 A species that conveys emotions through another means though may use a different method. Pheromones for example might have coloured association, so different colored text may signify a particular pheromone for example. Emotion is very nuanced, and even after thousands of years conveying it accurately with writing is still hard for us as humans. Even if I write the word 'happy' in front of a sentence, it doesn't give a complete picture. A snake-like jaw can likely make a similar range of sounds to humans, though their vocal range would focus more on palatal sounds as their palate is far larger. I imagine that if the species have a thin snake-like tongue that would lead any sound involving the tongue (like 'l', 'n', 't' etc) to be higher pitched. Snakes also don't have pronounced enough lips for labial sounds, so likely wouldn't make those sounds at all. Glad this has been inspiring to you!
What kind of hosts do the octopus people use? How does their involvement affect the evolution of their host species? How does this affect their culture? Will you go more in depth about the culture of each species later?
The Na'qwuil's ability to interface with the neurology of other creatures is reasonably universal, though it would be easier with simpler creatures. A creature with higher brain power like a human would require far more effort on the Na'qwuil's behalf. I plan on going into all of the questions you've asked progressively throughout this series!
You are correct haha, I caught my mistake after I had posted the video. The red moon of Locus is called Malus, good catch! Paying more attention to my content than I am apparently 😂
I was not sure, but I also thought that Rufus was the smaller star, so I was Looking through the comments to see if someone had noticed the same thing. If not, I was about to go back to the older video to confirm and not appear completely ignorant. Glad I found this comment, because it means I'm still a bit "uncrazy."
Quick thought. Dwarves enter their mining area from the base of a mountain, and rather than digging down, they tend to dig upward. So now the Dwarves mark where they are, then dig upward and mark again, making their script go bottom up. Any opinions are MORE than welcome.
If the vowel symbols separate abugidas from abjads, does that mean that Hebrew is a semi abjad(no diacritics in formal, religious and normal usage, but they are present for those who are learning)?
after this im gonna have to revisit the "creating language" part again, it was a bit to complicated for me (as english is not my native language) to understand, and i phase out. Now im regretting that :D
8:30 uhhh no, if you look south the moon that rises in the east would rise to your left. If you're in the northern hemisphere, just look outside your window lol
It certainly was! However, the important point is that it wasn't established out of 'nothing', but rather was deliberately created by those who spoke and wrote other languages. Therefore it was not subject to the evolutionary process that shapes languages organically over time. Therefore, it isn't considered a naturalistic language, but is in fact an actual conlang that is used in real life!
If your species is advanced enough to do space colonization I have severe doubts there are enough bits of its script left to form a language out of, given most things would be in a digital format.
Although using English as a standard for naturally evolved languages is highly problematic. English is a very young and synthetic language, which couldn't exist without at least four or five languages from neighboring places as well as at least two very old lanugages from very far away places, using the script of one of those, but only because it was a global imperial superpower, while the other old language only came to the isles because of other hostile global powers, adding to it classicism and colonialisation when England itself became a, if not the largest global superpower and keeping in mind that modern english is highly altered from yesterdays english already because of globalisation with its advances in economics, politics and media. That's where my automatic translation idea from last video comes back in. Using english not as the real language in the world but the one we as the observer get to experience as automatically translated from the actual language that's being spoken
And he used german again. This time ge used it as a example for writing (who would have guessed) and he didn't use modern german but old german letters.
Well its not for a lack of trying, since every time somebody like Teddy Roosevelt gets the idea to simplify English spelling to how it sounds, it never catches on even if it make sense. Kind of similar to how qwerty isn't the optimal keyboard layout but the inefficient system is already established.
Wouldn't the humans developing so far away from each other so early in their history soeak different languages? I get u don't want as many languages n writing systems as IRL but wouldn't it have made more sense for 1 of those 2 groups to lead to english n then other having some other language u either know or that can be easily translated to from English. Like if I were in ur shoes I'd have used French cuz I'm fairly fluent n can proof read any google translations. Then I'd have just made there in world writing a completely new alphabet to represent each of the sounds French has in those wiki pages u talked about in the languages video. Cuz here u say they each developed their own writing but they end up writing n speaking the same language from across the continent? Breaks my immersion a lil. Ur videos r very informative but some of the choices u make confuse me :/
In reality, neither would use English and would have their own unique languages. However, I've used humans on Locus as the 'control' species here, and their speaking and writing in English isn't just for convenience or laziness, but allows for a connecting language for viewers, readers, and players. Like 'galactic basic' in Star Wars or 'common' in DnD. I talk about this more in the video on spoken languages. Imagine that whatever language they speak/write is translated immediately into English for the benefit of the viewer, reader, or player. Thanks for the feedback!
@@WorldbuildingCorner Hmm, why not have humans develop their own languages and then have English come about further down the line as a common trade tongue the various civilizations developed to easier communicate among each other? Looking back at fictionalized English languages like Commonspeech or Galactic Basic, they're all trade languages.
In you azk me i wouldnt just drop out the coda. I would find a way that the deleted coda still marked its trace onto the previous syllable. For example, tones, vowel quality, phonation, vowel length, something cool like that. Heck, even you could do something as weird as this: /tat , tak/ > /tʼa , ɡǁɔ/
I would say that the octopi would have long since developed writing at this stage mainly because you had them stay put in the same marsh for hundreds of thousands of years. They weren't just mastering agriculture during that time but also construction with hardened and treated mud and grown plants as the material. So it makes sense that they would initially use mud tablets initially before transitioning to parchment for longevity using their own ink as a writing tool. This means that by the time they encounter the alien artifacts they would already have a highly advanced literary system for the time and it is from that point they incorporate and modify the alien language for their own use. Though after this micro merge or rather cultural absorption the preferred writing material might be a bit of parchment with a thin layer of mud to better preserve the ink that the symbols are written in.
Writing is the first example of "off-site memory storage" as we begin to get words/thoughts out of our heads and saved somewhere that others can access them even if we are not there.
Traditional versus casual writing is such an important and I feel easily overlooked detail.
I've been watching these a bit out of order, so after watching the trade routes video I was having worries about whether my winged people always (or almost always?) getting their writing from copying it from the local sedentary humans would be valid, but then when I watched this, a lot of my questions were answered and raised a few helpful ones. These videos also help drive new ideas I wanted to find and explore (the desert video being a prime example) and I appreciate them so much. Thank you for making these!
I'm really glad to hear the series is helpful, and that you have been enjoying the videos!
Writing definitely can be borrowed from other cultures, and there's lots of real-world examples of that happening. In English, a huge number of our words are borrowed!
@@WorldbuildingCorner Yeah, in real life only a few cultures developed writing independently. Most borrowed from another culture, and some created their own after being exposed to writing form other cultures.
7:55 Let's not forget the Ogham writing system that's read from bottom to top.
I went through every single one of your videos in a playlist, and they are fantastic. I've dabbled in it a bit using Artifexian's videos, mostly on climate and biome placements, and have a pretty workable map, but the speculative biology and species emergence parts are fantastic, the set up for the galaxy and solarsystems were brill and the conlang stuff was infinitely clearer than other videos I've watched in the past.
I look forward to your future releases and to stealing all of it like a good lil' Na'qwuil.
Thank you very much for the positive feedback! Artifexian is a huge inspiration, feels awesome even being in the same conversation as him. Glad you have enjoyed the series so far and found the content helpful. Stay tuned for more soon :)
A new video from this fantastic channel has arrived and about a truly fascinating theme.
Matthew, words can't describe how much of a help your channel and you have been to me and my "Men before Men" project after i lose my inspiration for a couple of months.
I love this channel and i think you deserve more followers.
Thank you for the positive feedback!
I'm glad you are enjoying the content so much, and that it has helped to inspire your project! 😊
Nearly 1k subs, congrats dude! This channel deserves WAAAAY more though
Thank you! Even the tallest trees take time to grow, or at least that's what I'm telling myself!
I'm glad you are enjoying the content 😊
@@WorldbuildingCorner yours is truly a hidden gem, keep up the great work!
@@scrvaa01 Thank you!
You have given me an idea for the Drow writing system:
The first Drow group, called the Silt Drows, have first developed a writing system that works in a way similar to heraldic, but with macramé knots made out of water-plant ropes. This was used as a way to avoid inbreeding and promote the supremacy of a family over others, as well as to remember which family did what treaty with what group for ressource access, to avoid unnecessary conflicts. The overall shape, the specific type of knot used and weather, the ornaments woven in the pattern or wither not the threads where ash-treated were imported symbols used to trace down family trees. For example, a family that would wear a net made in the way of a spider-web would symbolize a family line of medics or craftsmen. The reason why spider-related iconography have become prominent in most Drow cultures is because of how necessary spiders are to their civilisations. They need to make bandages that stops bleeding, and for settlements in which heating up metal or stone tools for cauterization is impractical, spider-silk is absolutely necessary for medicine as a way to slow down blood loss. Also, since spider-silk can become extremely solid once woven, it can also be used for certain types of armor, becoming highly useful in war-torn settlements. Also, the making of spider-silk products require a high degree of skill, which again, makes this commodity and the spiders that provide it extremely valuable. Not to mention, it's the only type of textile available in cave settings.
As the Drow travelled inland and diversified, this system became quite inadequate, and thus was born a way to draw symbols for different things. The two surviving settlements, the city of Pyroxene and the city of Emeralds had developed quite far appart were very linguistically distinct. The city of Pyroxene have developed a writing system that is a syllabary, since they have quite the simple system, along side a few extra symbols that are kept silent to mark palletization while smiling on vowels. The city of Emerald uses an alphabet as it has so many vowels and consonant clusters that using most other writing systems would be impractical.
Extremely cool! It is nice to see drow given so much flavour, I love hearing about them in your world!
It's also so satisfying when in-world worldbuilding contributes to languages and writing too. Makes the world feel really organic.
@@WorldbuildingCorner Thanks.
Just found this channel today, and I've already watched like 8-10 videos definitely subscribing.
Almost a thousand subs, WoCo!! Congrats! And... y'know having not actually gone back to look at the earlier planet-building videos yet, I feel like I made that discovery at the same time as the Squidfolks. (Whose name I keep forgetting how to spell, which seems very on-brand for them.) What in tarnation.
That thing about the Urakan having a formal and casual script gave me Ideas. One of my regions - set in a temperate rainforest with Big Honking Redwoods - now has a traditional runic script that's written top to bottom and a casual script that they borrowed from a neighboring empire at one point. Which handily solves a worldbuilding puzzle that I had written myself into during NaNoWriMo. :D These videos are swiftly becoming ones that I keep referring back to because I am SO not a conlanger by nature.
Thank you! Haha the Na'qwuil are kind of like my 'local aliens' on Locus, they're cool but mysterious and very strange.
Glad the Urakan were able to inspire you! Imagine how awe inspiring seeing a giant redwood covered in ancient script would be... They can live for thousands of years. I'm not sure writing would survive on surface bark that long, but even across shorter timespans that concept is so cool to me. Very awesome!
Gods I love this channel!! It’s really helpful for my world that has a race of anthro praying mantises
Glad you are enjoying and that the content has been helpful! :)
Great video as always! Can't wait for the magic systems to be introduced!
Thanks! Glad you are enjoying :)
I enjoyed this - you organize your videos well - I am glad I discovered this channel
I am loving this series so far, and I appreciate the impressive pace you keep with your upload schedule. I sure hope though that humans will be a bit more interesting and diverse than just all speaking modern English unchanging throughout the entire history of civilization. I understand the need for a 'common' lingua franca in your fiction to be your local real world language, but I always look at it as an assumed translation. In fact it doesn't really make sense otherwise.
I love everything else, can't wait for what kind of Lovecraftian horror crawls out of this combination of brain-parasites and ancient aliens.
That reminds me, there is one language on this planet that's expected to have loanwords from all kinds of languages non-existent on this planet but no influence from any of the actual local ones. One that might influence some of the local languages but is not expected to change over time. It's not any local human language but you do have one believable candidate. If you really want to physically pin English into your world... Just saying.
The languages across the board will evolve over time, what I've presented is their usable foundations circa dawn of civilisation.
Regarding humans speaking and writing "English", your assumption of translation for our convenience is absolutely correct. They certainly would have their own unique languages that are not English that will evolve and diversify across time, which I have not presented in this video to keep things simplified (and keep video length manageable). What we see is simply the 'translation'. I perhaps did not make this clear in the video, but it is interesting how polarizing this point has been.
I am glad you are enjoying the content 😊
@@WorldbuildingCorner I guess you reached the point where things get messy. With orbits and luminosities and whatnot you're either correct or not (and if not there's still a magic system in place to handwave stuff) But with culture we'll all have our opinions.
Thanks for clarifying anyways, and keep up the great work.
3:10
One small correction. In abugidas, the base characters to which the diacritics and other modifying characters are added, have an inherent vowel attached. for example, in hiragana, ka is か and ga is が. They look the same, but が (ga) has a modifying diacritic to chance the consonant the vowel is inherently attached to. Of course, there are exceptions when it comes to abugidas, but hiragana and katakana are one such examples.
Congrats getting over 1K!
Thank you! Been an exciting journey so far, thank you for joining me on it :)
4:00 - this claim is incorrect. The alphabetic Ogham script of Ireland and Scotland arose independently (unlike, say, Germanic runes which ultimately came from Egyptian hieroglyphs via Phoenician, Greek and Latin)
apart from the engineered ones, all writing systems evolved from logographies
Oh my lord, the Nakwquil are really becoming Mind Flayers.
another great video! ive been working in my own world on a non-linear writing system, originating from military strategy diagrams scratched into the dirt (my peoples have a long history of war between tribes and nations). one of the parts that's always felt the least natural in its transition from a visual aid to a proper writing system has been entry points; im thinking i may borrow the ananatgrian idea of what is functionally a punctuation mark that states where a page of text begins.
one thing i'll mention that isn't coming up in your world but might be helpful to others, is the links between writing and tone. since most natural tonal languages are east and southeast asian, there's definitely a stronger correlation for tonal languages to be logographies; however, Cherokee uses a syllabary and chooses to leave tone unmarked, and Igbo uses an alphabet and marks tones with diacritics. I do wanna shout out Ńdébé as an absolutely gorgeous syllabary (self described; it functions amazingly similarly to Hangul in the its elegance of interrelatedness with its syllables, featurally marking onset, vowel and tone) based on Nsibidi, and everyone who has even a passing interest in linguistics I highly recommend to go check it out!
Yet another great video! I have no idea how you keep up such high quality videos on such a frequent release schedule. The Urakan's use of two scripts has given me some inspiration, I wonder what conditions would lead to more than two scripts being in use? Maybe a highly culturally diverse city which has to use so many scripts for all of its inhabitants?
Thank you for the positive feedback! I enjoy making the videos, it's become somewhat of a passion now!
I actually wonder whether a highly multicultural city might make more pressure for a single universal script. City officials and traders would likely use a single language and script for simplicity, and those wanting to successfully integrate would need to learn. Especially in the earlier days of civilisation.
I think the best precedent we have for multiple languages and scripts developing is cultural divide, especially a divide of class or education, or both. One for the 'masses', one for the 'elite' kind of thing.
Or a professional script, kind of like how French was used in legal proceedings for a period of time, even in English speaking countries.
@@WorldbuildingCorner Yeah, that makes more sense, I imagine this new universal script would spread beyond the city as a sort of lingua franca, as it would likely be designed to be easily learned.
Excellent!
I reckon you can get a pretty good mileage out of an abjad, or certainly an abugida even with a decent amount vowels if you have a strict vowel harmony.
I am by no means an abjad and abugida 'expert' but my research has shown no abjad with more vowel sounds than 7, with 5 or 6 seeming to be the most common amount.
Devanagari however is an abugida with 14 vowel sounds, which is reasonably high, so you're right it's certainly plausible! Most abugidas tend to sit around the 7-10 vowel sounds range though.
@@WorldbuildingCorner Oh yes this is certainly on the edge of plausible, and you're right an abjad is probably pushing it. I was actually thinking 8-10 so now I'm pleased your research is so close to my wild guesstimate.
@@ludvercz Part of the fun of worldbuilding is dancing with the boundaries of plausible!
Thank you!. I am newbie writer and your stuff has helped me,
You are very welcome! Every writer starts where you are. Perhaps one day we will all be reading your works 😊
@@WorldbuildingCorner I actually wrote a book but it was completely awful. Poor Descriptive imagery, a lot of spelling and grammar errors, and the book was over 820 pages long. Yeah so I am trying to get better.
I have a species that is capable of releasing powerful pheromones with different meanings, which is how they communicated before spoken language allowed them to express more complex thoughts. Even after that, pheromones play a big part of how they 'speak' to each other. So a writing system would have to keep that in mind, with different symbols symbolizing the different emotions expressed that way. Kinda like how people on the internet now use things at the end of their sentences to indicate tone, like /j for joking or /lh for lighthearted, lol. Though I'd rather have not have them wait until the end of the sentence- perhaps something similar to how Abugida conlangs have markings for vowels? In that case, it doesn't make sense for them to develop an abugida script as it would be seen as too cluttered.
As for what they write on- it probably /would/ be something like papyrus, as they live in a marsh-like area where extremely tall grasses grow abundantly, and most of the things they have are either made of it or made to remove/collect it. Plus, even before they come up with a writing system they already had 'paint' they used to draw on their bodies and tents, so they wouldn't have trouble finding something to write with.
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..Sorry for the long comment, it's just that this video gave me a ton of inspiration that I'm so excited about I wished to share it. Now I just have to figure out what kind of spoken language they would have in the first place! What sort of sounds would a species with a snake-like jaw and throat be able to make?!
Conveying emotions is a really interesting concept for script actually. We as humans irl convey much of our emotion visually, so even with our scripts, it is far easier to convey emotions through pictograms, which in modern terms is emojis! 👀😄🤯🙌
A species that conveys emotions through another means though may use a different method. Pheromones for example might have coloured association, so different colored text may signify a particular pheromone for example. Emotion is very nuanced, and even after thousands of years conveying it accurately with writing is still hard for us as humans. Even if I write the word 'happy' in front of a sentence, it doesn't give a complete picture.
A snake-like jaw can likely make a similar range of sounds to humans, though their vocal range would focus more on palatal sounds as their palate is far larger. I imagine that if the species have a thin snake-like tongue that would lead any sound involving the tongue (like 'l', 'n', 't' etc) to be higher pitched. Snakes also don't have pronounced enough lips for labial sounds, so likely wouldn't make those sounds at all.
Glad this has been inspiring to you!
nobody worth talking to uses tone indicators
@@siyacer you can pry my tone indicators from my cold dead hands. /j /lh
What kind of hosts do the octopus people use? How does their involvement affect the evolution of their host species? How does this affect their culture? Will you go more in depth about the culture of each species later?
The Na'qwuil's ability to interface with the neurology of other creatures is reasonably universal, though it would be easier with simpler creatures. A creature with higher brain power like a human would require far more effort on the Na'qwuil's behalf.
I plan on going into all of the questions you've asked progressively throughout this series!
I though Rufus was the second smaller star of the binary and the moon was called malus?
You are correct haha, I caught my mistake after I had posted the video. The red moon of Locus is called Malus, good catch! Paying more attention to my content than I am apparently 😂
I was not sure, but I also thought that Rufus was the smaller star, so I was Looking through the comments to see if someone had noticed the same thing. If not, I was about to go back to the older video to confirm and not appear completely ignorant.
Glad I found this comment, because it means I'm still a bit "uncrazy."
Quick thought.
Dwarves enter their mining area from the base of a mountain, and rather than digging down, they tend to dig upward. So now the Dwarves mark where they are, then dig upward and mark again, making their script go bottom up.
Any opinions are MORE than welcome.
Good
If the vowel symbols separate abugidas from abjads, does that mean that Hebrew is a semi abjad(no diacritics in formal, religious and normal usage, but they are present for those who are learning)?
after this im gonna have to revisit the "creating language" part again, it was a bit to complicated for me (as english is not my native language) to understand, and i phase out. Now im regretting that :D
Almost at a thousand subscribers!
Growing slowly but surely 😊🥳
8:30 uhhh no, if you look south the moon that rises in the east would rise to your left. If you're in the northern hemisphere, just look outside your window lol
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🙌😊
Hey when new video come out
Wasn't the red moon named Malus?
Haha, at first I thought you said finding alien stuff is a common occurrence on Earth :D
If you ask me, Matthew, only three writing systems are expected to naturally descend from a logography: alphabets, abjads, and syllabary.
I did want to ask, I thought the Korean writing script was independently created and didn’t start as a logography
It certainly was! However, the important point is that it wasn't established out of 'nothing', but rather was deliberately created by those who spoke and wrote other languages. Therefore it was not subject to the evolutionary process that shapes languages organically over time.
Therefore, it isn't considered a naturalistic language, but is in fact an actual conlang that is used in real life!
@@WorldbuildingCorneryou mean conscript?
If your species is advanced enough to do space colonization I have severe doubts there are enough bits of its script left to form a language out of, given most things would be in a digital format.
I also have conlang letter
Romanised? As in Latin?
Rufus? I thought Rufus was the star, and the moon was called Malus.
Although using English as a standard for naturally evolved languages is highly problematic. English is a very young and synthetic language, which couldn't exist without at least four or five languages from neighboring places as well as at least two very old lanugages from very far away places, using the script of one of those, but only because it was a global imperial superpower, while the other old language only came to the isles because of other hostile global powers, adding to it classicism and colonialisation when England itself became a, if not the largest global superpower and keeping in mind that modern english is highly altered from yesterdays english already because of globalisation with its advances in economics, politics and media.
That's where my automatic translation idea from last video comes back in. Using english not as the real language in the world but the one we as the observer get to experience as automatically translated from the actual language that's being spoken
10:40 looks like horned kangaroo
Mr. Santoro
Not the worst internet personality I've been compared to haha 👀
I prefer pictographs
And he used german again. This time ge used it as a example for writing (who would have guessed) and he didn't use modern german but old german letters.
13:24
Sus amogus
18:45 "Romanized text should be written as close to it's pronounciation as possile."
Says the english guy with the inconsistent writing system. :D
I'm sorry what country are you from again? Hungary is it?
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
@@Madhattersinjeans Our writing system is consistent, thank you.
Well its not for a lack of trying, since every time somebody like Teddy Roosevelt gets the idea to simplify English spelling to how it sounds, it never catches on even if it make sense. Kind of similar to how qwerty isn't the optimal keyboard layout but the inefficient system is already established.
Wouldn't the humans developing so far away from each other so early in their history soeak different languages? I get u don't want as many languages n writing systems as IRL but wouldn't it have made more sense for 1 of those 2 groups to lead to english n then other having some other language u either know or that can be easily translated to from English. Like if I were in ur shoes I'd have used French cuz I'm fairly fluent n can proof read any google translations. Then I'd have just made there in world writing a completely new alphabet to represent each of the sounds French has in those wiki pages u talked about in the languages video. Cuz here u say they each developed their own writing but they end up writing n speaking the same language from across the continent? Breaks my immersion a lil. Ur videos r very informative but some of the choices u make confuse me :/
In reality, neither would use English and would have their own unique languages.
However, I've used humans on Locus as the 'control' species here, and their speaking and writing in English isn't just for convenience or laziness, but allows for a connecting language for viewers, readers, and players. Like 'galactic basic' in Star Wars or 'common' in DnD. I talk about this more in the video on spoken languages.
Imagine that whatever language they speak/write is translated immediately into English for the benefit of the viewer, reader, or player.
Thanks for the feedback!
@@WorldbuildingCorner Hmm, why not have humans develop their own languages and then have English come about further down the line as a common trade tongue the various civilizations developed to easier communicate among each other? Looking back at fictionalized English languages like Commonspeech or Galactic Basic, they're all trade languages.
In you azk me i wouldnt just drop out the coda. I would find a way that the deleted coda still marked its trace onto the previous syllable. For example, tones, vowel quality, phonation, vowel length, something cool like that. Heck, even you could do something as weird as this: /tat , tak/ > /tʼa , ɡǁɔ/