I love how the shadow around the fan error window was HUGE.... like all the error windows were literally stacked on top of each other, casting a dark shadow on your desktop, which slowly lightened up as you closed more of them.
No it doesn't. GPUs can handle tens of millions of triangles. The overhead for windows is the abstraction, it's not the 2 triangles it takes to make them that makes them slow, it's the program they represent being run thousands of times that is slow, and maybe the windows graphics API also struggles, but in terms of raw compute the amount of polygons in a fork bombed 2D desktop scenario does not explain the performance issues. @@TheCustomFHD
LOVE seeing those Arctic fans being used in any capacity. I have an 11-fan rig and every single one of them is a P12 PWM. Total cost was around $55 USD for all the fans and it is quiet and efficient as hell.
I only recommend two fans. Arctic P for regular people, and Noctua Industrials for insane people who don't care if their fans are running at 2000 or 3000rpm and don't want RGB.
I'm impressed with your ingenuity as always on how you approach and figure out solutions to challenges. This is pretty cool tech and nice to see how it can run, but I am much more impressed with your 13900k results with power limits, that is the route I will go now that you showed it.
This pushes me back to my Celeron 300A days, peltier and heatsink ripped from an electric cooler strapped to a slocketed 300A with dual ATX power supplies...
I’m quite happy to watch you play with this hardware. It’s great to know what’s possible. For my part, even if I came up with the money for such a rig, I have no workloads to justify it. I expect the same is true for most of your viewers. That makes bleeding-edge video like this very worthwhile to watch.
There are no workloads that justify it. You're still only getting a couple 100 extra Mhz out of the CPU for a 500$ pricetag. If you need performance, that 500$ together with a slight toning down of the initial pricetag of a 13900, buys you extra hardware that provides direct performance without the cooling. Like a whole second system. With multithreading finally being a mainstream thing, practically every task can be split up among multiple systems. So when it comes to workhorse systems, this is never worth it. Even if you have this specific task where the time it takes to queue up a spread task takes longer than running it locally, your workflow either needs improvement or the few 100Mhz together with the 500$ pricetag isn't anywhere near a speedup enough to make much of a real difference. But not everything has to have a clear price/performance advantage, buying something just for having it is perfectly OK. And who knows, by people buying this, the usage of this kind of tech may seep into the general market improving performance across the board.
@@enlightendbel you are wrong, sir. fallout new vegas, in 2022, with applied care and curation, is a rock-solid experience more stable than your average AAA release. the only problem is that it's still single thread limited.
I am spending $1000 on a Sub Zero beer chiller. It has four channels with four pumps. Each channel is capable of cooling up to 780 watts. It has an 8 gallon tank capacity for a Propylene Glycol mix. It will send solution out at minus 5C. This is for my X3D CPU and my 7900XT. Cheers. Thanks for sharing your OC experience.
I used to have a beer chiller that I made that used nitrous oxide (laughing gas) cylinders (which I got easily from a dentist friend), want a COLD beer? pop it in, crack a whippet (... take the whippet too should you be inclined) and super cold beer was had in an instant :) I loved that thing but for the life of me I can't remember what ever happened to it, probably lost during a move :( (along with access to dentist friend.. so no reason to build another subsequently)
Can it hang being run constantly? Most refrigeration solutions are designed to cool something down for a while and then cycle on only periodically to control temperatures. They're not usually designed to run flat-out all the time to cool an active heat source.
@@ganthrithor It can run 24/7 its a commercial unit. It takes as much juice as a mini-fridge and makes about the same noise. It will only run as long as I am on the computer.
@@ganthrithor It's basically a water chiller, and yes, it will work if it is indeed designed to cool up to 780 watts like some are. Though I'm not sure why a beer chiller would bother to mention it can handle 780 watts unless it's sold as a multi-purpose kind of thing. Some water chillers will mention a "watt value" of cooling power because they are designed to cool machines and that's what people usually buy for custom loop chillers. You can buy nice machine chillers for less than $1,000 though that work great.
Would love to see this solution on the new am5 CPUs considering their interesting boost behaviour where it will basically continue boosting higher until it hits 95°C.
Agree. But it is too expensive. Intel made their 13600k to boost until they pass 100°C to have +5°C more auto-overclock head room than AMD. So on low perf Air cooling, Intel will get hotter and faster.
Thanks for that previous 13900k power limit video. I used it as a baseline to look at tweaking mine, I ended up sticking to 280w for a short PL2, and then down to 220w for PL1 if there's a sustained load, with a core clock offset of -0.040v. The 280w setting loses less than 4% performance but isn't hitting 100c any more, and the 220w setting is only about 8% less performance but practically halved power usage at load.
Tuning is key really. I recommend just finding the lowest voltage you can use while having the least amount of power consumption possible. I have my 13900KF OCed to 5.8Ghz P-Cores, 4.5 E-Cores, and 5.1Ghz cache, and DDR5 7600. My max power consumption in R23 is 260 watts peak after 30 minutes still scoring over 43,000. Let that sink in for a second. It’s crazy. Yes my chip is amazing for one. But still, the auto voltages are a bit heavy honestly. If I ram my CPU stock with auto voltages it’s like 311 watts in R23. It doesn’t make sense that I can overclock it with a fixed voltage and consume 50 less watts while Running faster. Leave it stock set a fixed V-Core and start knocking off voltage slowly bit by bit. I can squeeze out a full bore 13900K performance inside of about 220+ watts. No need to take away frequency at all.
@@videocardzrule354 That's a huge result. This chip is insane, it can go down deep low power, stay in the mid-range, or with things like this video's cooler can get massive scores.
@@videocardzrule354 Curious what Voltage you run for 5.8ghz with the cache so high? Still tuning mine. But even 50x on cache is a no go with 5.8 all core and 4.5 E-core.
Otherwise, I really enjoy this video and it is very well made. Thank you for considering english speakers, especially even with a smaller demographic in your channels. I really enjoy your content, video ideas, and general attitude/commmentary in front of the camera!!!😅😁
Running multiple peltier modules in an adjacent ("parallel") configuration like that is actually a really good idea, because TEC efficiency goes up (quite substantially in fact) as its load goes down (with a peak at 15-40% depending on your temperature delta). Running multiple higher-rated units in tandem at lighter load will result in less wasted power operating the TECs (and less excess heat to get rid of) with the only downside being the extra cost of buying more modules and the physical space they take up. In fact, a TEC running at its optimum point at a temperature delta of say 10c can actually have a coefficient of performance over 3:1, comaparable with compressor-driven heat pumps like air conditioners. For something that achieves a CoP of 0.5:1 or worse in "typical" use-cases, this is quite notable!
The great thing about this type of cooler, in my opinion, is that the hot side of the Peltier element can get hotter than the CPU, heating the coolant to a higher temperature than the CPU would at a given load. This makes the coolant more efficient at cooling, and the cold side of the Peltier only gets proportionally colder. So you can have liquid cooling efficiency normally given by a 60-degree delta, even when your CPU is below room temperature. It's almost like a heat pump for computers, without the noise!
Ok this looks absolutely gorgeous. I don’t mind burning insane energy for a baller machine lol. Hope they sell enough that my next build 2-3 years down the line can be built around this ;)
This does seem like a really smart TEC implementation. With a couple more improvements (software, fitment) I'd be tempted to try one eventually. Loved the brave little pump. 🤣
It's wild that an entire software package is required to enable a mode that could be a dipswitch on the controller. It adds a lot of bugs and complexity for extremely little gain.
I remember back in the day using a Peltier cooler ... it was amazing just turning it on and holding it between two fingers and one getting hot, and one cold, really really fast. It was just the cooler, get it upside down when putting it in and your cpu was potentially toast as you applied the hot side ! I got some good results but my cooling was not good enough even in those days to take away the wattage of the cooler and the cpu. And it was a lot less watts in those days. This is a good cooler !
Would love to see you try to make the "ultimate" peltier cooler, by having 2 water loops one cold and one hot, allowing you to have more peltiers and either getting even more cooling or having each being at its most efficient point. Cold loop: cpu water block, pump, and peltier cold side block. the hardest part would be making a pair of custom water blocks for the peltiers. hot side: peltier hot side block, pump and radiators.
Would it not be easier and much more efficient to use an off-the-shelf water chiller to cool the loop? LTT did a video with a bunch of peltiers as you describe, but that seemed more for the novelty.
@@BravoCharleses their setup was horrible, made with cheap peltiers, on chinese coolers and blocks. but yes its still for the novelty than being a good cooling method
AlN ceramic TEC modules are usually used for power generation or for extreme mission critical cooling applications. Remember salvaging about 50 of them from a 48V solid state natural gas generator that was originally for backup power at a cell site. It made 48V at up to 120A iirc. The modules were a bit big for cpu cooling though they made awome stand alone water to air chillers.
“Luckily we are loving in 2022 and you can be whatever you you want to be…whoever you want to be…and also our Intel boxed cooler identifies now as a pump.” 😂
I think with even a fraction of that aggravation that you had to endure, I would just simply port a nozzle of a portable AC unit into a case. 17° C (~63° F) is in range of one of those portable units and as a side benefit it has enough cooling capacity to remove all the heat from both the PC and room.
@@sayacee5813 that's not how condensation forms. The concern would be the outside of the case if you over cooled it. Condensation forms when warmer humid air contacts a cool surface. The only time you could get that condition in an AC'd PC case is if you over cooled the PC (say down to 35deg), and then shut off the AC and opened the case... then it would be like bringing a cold item inside in the winter. It would get a small amount of condensation It doesn't happen in reverse (blowing chilled air inside).
Water chillers are available for under $400 which are more power efficient than peltier systems and can easily supply water at temperatures in the 0 C range or for more $s even lower. You may have to worry about condensation on the tubing, but a little insulation provides an easy fix. Adding a chiller to a loop does require a little DIY but is not a complicated build.
Back when we were trying to oc another hot CPU, the dual-cored Pentium-D, I slapped a 100w pelt on top of a copper waterblock and cooled that with a Thermaltake SLK800. The advantages being that it allowed the watercooling to function normally, did not require the peltier to be running all the time, and allowed a lower power tec to assist in cooling without running into that wattage cooling wall. Others did similar things with pelts as inline waterchillers, which can be a simple as a second waterblock paired to a tec and cooled by a second watercooling/radiator setup or just large hsf/block of alluminium. It's funny to remember that the Pentium-D was only like 130w and got all that bad press anyways.
I just need to say this. Your videos are already great and a useful resource of information... but something about your cat just laying on your desk, just chilling there, makes the video twice as good. I mean, not only do I get to see cool tech stuffs, learning stuffs, but I also get to see cat be adorable in background? Yes.
For enthusiasts chasing overclocking performance a Peltier device could be a worthwhile option, however, for everyday regular use I perceive only inconveniences.
I don't understand why they would put the Peltier cooler directly on the CPU and not simply use it to chill the water. There are a couple of advantages to chilling the water, the first is that you can pre-chill a volume of water for prolonged thermal stability, more thermal mass gives you more constant temperatures. Direct application also has the terrible disadvantage of forcing the Peltier cooler to mitigate all of the heat at the cost of equivalent energy to that heat. Then the water only moves the heat away from the chiller at additional expense. If the water is chilled most of the heat is dissipated by the normal heat loss at the rate of a room temperature water cooler, with the additional level of cooling only, being powered by the chiller providing a significant power saving. The only advantage to direct application of the Peltier cooler is sub zero cooling which would be a condensation problem. The choices selected were for a novelty item. The practical application has been completely ignored here. Move the chiller to the water tank. Put thermal sensors on the CPU, water tank and tubing. The Peltier can be used as a chiller, a dehumidifier, and an evaporator cyclically, since the thermal mass would provide stable duration. This would lower the dew point inside the chassis, the heat could then be used to evaporate the moisture and pump it back out into the room and keep the water tank topped off.
wow, total 2001 flashbacks, way cleaner than I had with a Danger Den Maze 2, 2 of them, atop a "buddy milled" cold plate and 4 15.8V pelts @12v for efficiency.... Yay AMD Athlon Barton Core @ 2.95GHZ!
Enjoyed it, one question though when you mention the TEK of 210W can't cool the 300W CPU. The way I understand it, the power consumption of a TEK is proportional to the deltaT across the element and not directly the heat load. So it's not just the capacity of the TEK power consumption, it's also related to the capacity of the heatsink to transfer the total load, not just TEK Power = Load Power. So if 210W can generate a delta T of 30°C across the TEK, and your goal is 15°C on the cold side, then as long as your waterblock can hold the hot side to
Thing about TEC I learned from astronomy is that they can freeze surrounding air to -40 and if this air dispates are the case it might cause frost and even freeze the coolant
What I do and have done for a while is I have the radiator outside, soldered the fans onto a few ethernet cat 6 S/FTP cables, and pump the liquid straight from the blocks and out. But I really should delid the CPU, as that's my largest limitation, as well as a quite mid-tier motherboard. Never been able to thermal-throttle my GPU, have yet to shunt-mod it. The components are quite aged by now though. But since ambient outside during winter is subzero, and during summer quite high, there's quite some variance. Thanks to very loud fans and the fact I only have two of them, I can power them from the mobo, set the fan curve appropriate to the temperature of the CPU and it's all fine. But recently I pushed voltage up and now my CPU can sit at 99°C while my GPU is only at 20~30°C - both being loaded nearly to the limit. I hope delidding w/ LM will help better transfer heat from the CPU to the block. But that's just one way to solve it. A very budget oriented one to get the most out of a unbalanced 2016-era setup.
If you want to tighten the posts with no room just thread in the screws into the top, that will let you tighten the posts, then use something to hold the post while you loosen the screw.
I use Thermoelectric Coolers in elemental analysis to condense out moisture. They’re horribly inefficient and not meant for continuous and sustained loads. They will cool continuously up to a point, but you’re just wasting a ton of power.
I used a TEC cooler for a while in the early 2000s on a AMD FX processor. At the time it was pretty cool but SUPER inefficient and constantly tripping my power supply. Ahh memories
Seriously, didn't you report the TEC power consumption in the 13900k 6.2Ghz result?! The actual power draw is double the amount you wrote. This device is literally obscene efficiency wise, 5% more performance for while using double the energy.
I believe the first commercial CPU peltier cooler was used in the early 1990s to cool a PowerMac 8100 CPU. That design was short lived as the flaw was the formation of condensation. Apple's solution at the time was to swap out the peltier with a traditional heatsink and fan.
i bought my CPU frame, Lapping kit and 13900k to play PUBG. I am going to run 1080 until i get a 4090. i think i am going to get 2- 360ml rads and this cooler. Ty again, love your videos!
This brings me back to cooling my Q6600 with a Cool-It peltier water cooler. TEC cooling back when CPUs were under 100W was fun but with the higher power consumption today I wouldn't risk it.
David Miller (aka mllrkllr88) removed an inductor from the control unit and that could do the TEC to work at 100% all the time (with its PROs and Cons). Could be useful if you don't want to mess with software or try AM4/AM5. Regards
Nice video to compare to my 13900k. Running 5.7ghz all core and 6.1ghz for best 2 cores at stock voltages. Cinebench r20 single scoring 915 here. I have a custom loop with 2x 480mm rads and a rtx 390 in the loop.
Noice. Which case are you using that houses 480mm rads? I'm personally om the look out for a case that can x3 420mm/480mm rads but that's also not too gigantic.
The power consumption of a TEC is a value internal to the operation of the TEC itself and does not relate in a limiting way to the heat drawn through the devise. For instance, if the efficiency of the TEC was such that its power consumption was only 30 Watts, that would NOT mean that the TEC would only be useful on a 30 Watt CPU load.
Great video! Thank You! As of the problem of the CPU recognition, using Wireshark and sniffing USB (if not encrypted) a small C code can fake and inject the right CPU type. Unfortunately I dont have EK Tec on my hands yet to check it.
Your screen looks similar to mine.. LOL in a good way. You have an steam acc and also OBS Studio. So you play games and make music to.. hehe awesome!!!
Did i miss vid or You never played around with Peltiers ?? Had one back at start of 200's runnin on my DIY water cooling lop with car radiator aquarium pump and old pickles jar as res :D
@@lordzed83 I messed with peltier cooling on a 4790K. I still have the modules but haven't used them for anything in ages because they're a hassle to setup.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking yeah but they dont have to be. The 12 and 13th series seem to be configured solely to have more core count on the box than amd and higher frequency on the box than amd. If that nonsense obsession was thrown out a very sensible and very high performance sku is possible. They release gazillion sku's anyway, they even already have p-core only skus in xeon lineup offering nice efficiency. They just wall it off from us which is nonsense cause consumer market is perfect for p-cores. Most home stuff either doesn't scale with gazyllion cores or even if it could scale the code is not written to allow so. Cool they can have higher blender score than amd but rendering belongs to render farms. People play CoD with home PCs not simulate chemical reactions. At most some use Adobe software which loves strong threads too. 6 cores seem to be sweetspot nowdays, 8 cores gives little spare room for future developments. There are workstations and rent by the hour cloud solutions for professional work, this is consumer platform. I know they're powerhungry as configured right now. My bet is if you disabled everything but 8 p-cores (gpu,e-cores) then finetuned the power draw you could get cpu second only to 13900k in non pro scenarios but at half powerdraw or less. One thinks e-cores draw little power (50-70w for 16c?) but thats 50% of powerbudget of 125w SKU, and around 100W is what you want them configured for great performance without turning room into sauna. You could try that for video, "can stock 7950X/12900K be beaten with fine tuned eight 13th gen p-cores in games at less power draw" and/or lets say adobe pudget tests.
how much power is the TEC pulling during these tests? Is this safe to run in cryo mode 24/7 on a workstation or is this just a fancy XOC thing to get the benchmarks?
I'm guessing the old design might actually have a thermometer for the hot side as well, but it doesn't need to be wired externally as the controller is directly on top of it already.
This is the way to go. I've been using a Frankensteined tec cooler for the last 15 years but it's only now that I'll splash out and get this product. The unfortunate thing is that it will only be compatible with socket 1700.
Interesting. Have you considered another test with some "liquid metal" instead of thermal paste as the CPU die/heatsink mating compound? Tests elsewhere on YT have reported notable thermal improvements with this change alone. I wonder if perhaps "liquid metal" would have any positive/negative/neutral impact on power consumption/CPU performance bump ratio?
Liquid metal would be a very bad match for sub ambient cooling. Thermal grizzly actually gives a lower temp spec of 10°C minimum to use conductonaut. The TEC cooler could solidify the liquid metal under some circumstances.. Sub ambient, high performance thermal paste is the way to go.
Very neato. The whole liquid nitrogen competitions are the equivlant of gun shooting competitions where they have you try to shoot a target 2 miles out but the catch is that the target is something like 10 meters by 10 meters in size, and these shooters shoot so many bullets that they're essentially able to eventually walk a bullet onto the target. Very insulting to those who're in Olympic clay or rapid-fire, or something like black powder/muzzle loader shooting competitions.
I don't get the 9 computer fan setup used by some TH-camrs. Almost any car radiator + car fan bought in a scrapyard would yield better thermals for a fraction of the price. Am I missing something here? Also, the Peltier could be used in a liquid-to-liquid heat exchanger instead of direct mount to the CPU. It would cool down the liquid (not water) just before entering the CPU's waterblock, and have its hot side cooled down by the water exhausted by the CPU's waterblock. Thermal conductivity of the Peltier wouldn't be an issue anymore.
One of the coolest things involving Tec is it can be used to create electricity. If you're camping in the Winter, & face the cold side to the cold air, & the hot side towards your fire it will produce electricity.
Any idea how much power the tec is using? That's really impressive if it's a reasonable amount considering it's only 1 pcie connector. I remember tec/hybrid coolers before just not being efficient enough to justify the difference
A Peltier device is quite inefficient for lowering CPU temps: it must AT LEAST use the CPU wattage to maintain the temperature, otherwise it will overheat. It kind of acts like a very inefficient heat pump! I don't remember the numbers exactly, but you must add around 30% to the CPU wattage. So the total power consumption will be : CPU_wattage + (CPU_wattage x 1.3)... and even more if you want to have very low CPU temps. (I've used a 54W and 72W peltier to cool a Celeron 300A, which is rated 20W, but can go up to 40W when overclocked). What is special in this setup is the controller board! It will keep the Peltier operating power in sync with the CPU power, which is really interesting (otherwise the CPU would freeze when idle).
These coolers have been interesting to me since I saw them roughly 17-18 or so years ago…….. although they were much more fiddly, cumbersome and required much more technical knowledge. I got myself one of those Cooler Master Intel 11th Gen peltier coolers (for roughly $120USD BRAND NEW & SEALED) with a built in 360mm radiator and looking to mod it fro my AMD AM4 rig. I would love to get that going as a starting point 💪🥳🥰
Love how the boxed cooler can become a pump if it believes in itself hard enough
The Little Boxed Cooler That Could!
@@MD2389 Underrated comment!!
Welcome to 2022. The fan identifies as a pump.
You dropped your crown, king
@@owenbar5055 I wish my GPU would identify as a 4090
I love how the shadow around the fan error window was HUGE.... like all the error windows were literally stacked on top of each other, casting a dark shadow on your desktop, which slowly lightened up as you closed more of them.
Its like your vision closing in when you pass out as the computer starts to die
And the amount of poligons on it explains why it runs so bad.
No it doesn't. GPUs can handle tens of millions of triangles. The overhead for windows is the abstraction, it's not the 2 triangles it takes to make them that makes them slow, it's the program they represent being run thousands of times that is slow, and maybe the windows graphics API also struggles, but in terms of raw compute the amount of polygons in a fork bombed 2D desktop scenario does not explain the performance issues. @@TheCustomFHD
This man is wildin.
He's a professional loophole/bypass finder
👍 Great video
LOVE seeing those Arctic fans being used in any capacity. I have an 11-fan rig and every single one of them is a P12 PWM. Total cost was around $55 USD for all the fans and it is quiet and efficient as hell.
agree, top tier performance, bargain price
2 out of 5 of my P12s have this weird whining. So they aren’t perfect.
@Kadd enjoyer noctua fans are 5x the price for 0.5% extra performance... you got scammed bruh
I only recommend two fans. Arctic P for regular people, and Noctua Industrials for insane people who don't care if their fans are running at 2000 or 3000rpm and don't want RGB.
@@holobolo1661 you pay 5x the price? sounds like you got scammed
I'm impressed with your ingenuity as always on how you approach and figure out solutions to challenges. This is pretty cool tech and nice to see how it can run, but I am much more impressed with your 13900k results with power limits, that is the route I will go now that you showed it.
Yea the thing is great, but can you just make a video where you just pet your cat for like 30 minutes?
He can't put up KitTeh pr0n!
ToS violation!
Seeing this cpu block reminds me of my old Prescott P4 Vapochill LS setup. Crazy how we're back to those temps again.
This pushes me back to my Celeron 300A days, peltier and heatsink ripped from an electric cooler strapped to a slocketed 300A with dual ATX power supplies...
I’m quite happy to watch you play with this hardware. It’s great to know what’s possible. For my part, even if I came up with the money for such a rig, I have no workloads to justify it. I expect the same is true for most of your viewers. That makes bleeding-edge video like this very worthwhile to watch.
There are no workloads that justify it.
You're still only getting a couple 100 extra Mhz out of the CPU for a 500$ pricetag.
If you need performance, that 500$ together with a slight toning down of the initial pricetag of a 13900, buys you extra hardware that provides direct performance without the cooling.
Like a whole second system.
With multithreading finally being a mainstream thing, practically every task can be split up among multiple systems.
So when it comes to workhorse systems, this is never worth it.
Even if you have this specific task where the time it takes to queue up a spread task takes longer than running it locally, your workflow either needs improvement or the few 100Mhz together with the 500$ pricetag isn't anywhere near a speedup enough to make much of a real difference.
But not everything has to have a clear price/performance advantage, buying something just for having it is perfectly OK.
And who knows, by people buying this, the usage of this kind of tech may seep into the general market improving performance across the board.
@@enlightendbel Plus the rest how much will the fans and rad cost. I would like to see what that can do with a 360mm rad.
modded fallout new vegas
@@rawhide_kobayashi That'll never run long enough without crashing to need this kind of cooling.
@@enlightendbel you are wrong, sir. fallout new vegas, in 2022, with applied care and curation, is a rock-solid experience more stable than your average AAA release.
the only problem is that it's still single thread limited.
I am spending $1000 on a Sub Zero beer chiller. It has four channels with four pumps. Each channel is capable of cooling up to 780 watts. It has an 8 gallon tank capacity for a Propylene Glycol mix. It will send solution out at minus 5C. This is for my X3D CPU and my 7900XT. Cheers.
Thanks for sharing your OC experience.
I used to have a beer chiller that I made that used nitrous oxide (laughing gas) cylinders (which I got easily from a dentist friend), want a COLD beer? pop it in, crack a whippet (... take the whippet too should you be inclined) and super cold beer was had in an instant :) I loved that thing but for the life of me I can't remember what ever happened to it, probably lost during a move :( (along with access to dentist friend.. so no reason to build another subsequently)
@@nrabbit300 a whippet is a small airgun sized nitrous cylinder with a valve.
Can it hang being run constantly? Most refrigeration solutions are designed to cool something down for a while and then cycle on only periodically to control temperatures. They're not usually designed to run flat-out all the time to cool an active heat source.
@@ganthrithor It can run 24/7 its a commercial unit. It takes as much juice as a mini-fridge and makes about the same noise. It will only run as long as I am on the computer.
@@ganthrithor It's basically a water chiller, and yes, it will work if it is indeed designed to cool up to 780 watts like some are. Though I'm not sure why a beer chiller would bother to mention it can handle 780 watts unless it's sold as a multi-purpose kind of thing. Some water chillers will mention a "watt value" of cooling power because they are designed to cool machines and that's what people usually buy for custom loop chillers. You can buy nice machine chillers for less than $1,000 though that work great.
Would love to see this solution on the new am5 CPUs considering their interesting boost behaviour where it will basically continue boosting higher until it hits 95°C.
Man if this could go on AMD, that would be awesome
Agree. But it is too expensive. Intel made their 13600k to boost until they pass 100°C to have +5°C more auto-overclock head room than AMD. So on low perf Air cooling, Intel will get hotter and faster.
AMD CPUs still have a hard power cap. Once they hit that limit, they will not increase power further.
Still they have a power limit that they will throttle at.
it is better to delid the amd cpu and go for direct die cooling. you would get much better results than going with this.
Thanks for that previous 13900k power limit video. I used it as a baseline to look at tweaking mine, I ended up sticking to 280w for a short PL2, and then down to 220w for PL1 if there's a sustained load, with a core clock offset of -0.040v. The 280w setting loses less than 4% performance but isn't hitting 100c any more, and the 220w setting is only about 8% less performance but practically halved power usage at load.
Tuning is key really. I recommend just finding the lowest voltage you can use while having the least amount of power consumption possible. I have my 13900KF OCed to 5.8Ghz P-Cores, 4.5 E-Cores, and 5.1Ghz cache, and DDR5 7600. My max power consumption in R23 is 260 watts peak after 30 minutes still scoring over 43,000. Let that sink in for a second. It’s crazy. Yes my chip is amazing for one. But still, the auto voltages are a bit heavy honestly. If I ram my CPU stock with auto voltages it’s like 311 watts in R23. It doesn’t make sense that I can overclock it with a fixed voltage and consume 50 less watts while
Running faster. Leave it stock set a fixed V-Core and start knocking off voltage slowly bit by bit. I can squeeze out a full bore 13900K performance inside of about 220+ watts. No need to take away frequency at all.
@@videocardzrule354 That's a huge result. This chip is insane, it can go down deep low power, stay in the mid-range, or with things like this video's cooler can get massive scores.
@@videocardzrule354 what kind of crazy ram is this
@@videocardzrule354 Curious what Voltage you run for 5.8ghz with the cache so high? Still tuning mine. But even 50x on cache is a no go with 5.8 all core and 4.5 E-core.
Otherwise, I really enjoy this video and it is very well made. Thank you for considering english speakers, especially even with a smaller demographic in your channels. I really enjoy your content, video ideas, and general attitude/commmentary in front of the camera!!!😅😁
Running multiple peltier modules in an adjacent ("parallel") configuration like that is actually a really good idea, because TEC efficiency goes up (quite substantially in fact) as its load goes down (with a peak at 15-40% depending on your temperature delta). Running multiple higher-rated units in tandem at lighter load will result in less wasted power operating the TECs (and less excess heat to get rid of) with the only downside being the extra cost of buying more modules and the physical space they take up.
In fact, a TEC running at its optimum point at a temperature delta of say 10c can actually have a coefficient of performance over 3:1, comaparable with compressor-driven heat pumps like air conditioners. For something that achieves a CoP of 0.5:1 or worse in "typical" use-cases, this is quite notable!
The great thing about this type of cooler, in my opinion, is that the hot side of the Peltier element can get hotter than the CPU, heating the coolant to a higher temperature than the CPU would at a given load. This makes the coolant more efficient at cooling, and the cold side of the Peltier only gets proportionally colder.
So you can have liquid cooling efficiency normally given by a 60-degree delta, even when your CPU is below room temperature.
It's almost like a heat pump for computers, without the noise!
you should include the additional power consumption of the tec itself
Ok this looks absolutely gorgeous. I don’t mind burning insane energy for a baller machine lol. Hope they sell enough that my next build 2-3 years down the line can be built around this ;)
This does seem like a really smart TEC implementation. With a couple more improvements (software, fitment) I'd be tempted to try one eventually.
Loved the brave little pump. 🤣
The fact that running the cryo cooler required a secondary 12900K system and a total of three Intel stock coolers made me chuckle quite a bit :'D
It's wild that an entire software package is required to enable a mode that could be a dipswitch on the controller. It adds a lot of bugs and complexity for extremely little gain.
I remember back in the day using a Peltier cooler ... it was amazing just turning it on and holding it between two fingers and one getting hot, and one cold, really really fast.
It was just the cooler, get it upside down when putting it in and your cpu was potentially toast as you applied the hot side !
I got some good results but my cooling was not good enough even in those days to take away the wattage of the cooler and the cpu. And it was a lot less watts in those days.
This is a good cooler !
These power consumption graphs in the FPS graph are so insane helpful.
Would love to see you try to make the "ultimate" peltier cooler, by having 2 water loops one cold and one hot,
allowing you to have more peltiers and either getting even more cooling or having each being at its most efficient point.
Cold loop: cpu water block, pump, and peltier cold side block.
the hardest part would be making a pair of custom water blocks for the peltiers.
hot side: peltier hot side block, pump and radiators.
if i am not mistaking Alex from ltt made something similar.
I think he did this in a past video. It doesn't work very well
Would it not be easier and much more efficient to use an off-the-shelf water chiller to cool the loop? LTT did a video with a bunch of peltiers as you describe, but that seemed more for the novelty.
@@BravoCharleses They also have a chiller cooling video, man, LTT got everything ahaha
@@BravoCharleses their setup was horrible, made with cheap peltiers, on chinese coolers and blocks.
but yes its still for the novelty than being a good cooling method
The "we live in 2022 and you can be whatever you want to be" cracked me up! 🤣
AlN ceramic TEC modules are usually used for power generation or for extreme mission critical cooling applications. Remember salvaging about 50 of them from a 48V solid state natural gas generator that was originally for backup power at a cell site. It made 48V at up to 120A iirc. The modules were a bit big for cpu cooling though they made awome stand alone water to air chillers.
“Luckily we are loving in 2022 and you can be whatever you you want to be…whoever you want to be…and also our Intel boxed cooler identifies now as a pump.” 😂
Seeing that you can run second system for the app, be cool to see test with amd cpu
I think with even a fraction of that aggravation that you had to endure, I would just simply port a nozzle of a portable AC unit into a case. 17° C (~63° F) is in range of one of those portable units and as a side benefit it has enough cooling capacity to remove all the heat from both the PC and room.
It's heading into that direction....maybe like a little mini freezer dedicated condenser
humidity
@@sayacee5813 ACs remove humidity
@@sayacee5813 inside the case will be dry and cold, water will condense all over the outside though :)
@@sayacee5813 that's not how condensation forms. The concern would be the outside of the case if you over cooled it.
Condensation forms when warmer humid air contacts a cool surface. The only time you could get that condition in an AC'd PC case is if you over cooled the PC (say down to 35deg), and then shut off the AC and opened the case... then it would be like bringing a cold item inside in the winter. It would get a small amount of condensation
It doesn't happen in reverse (blowing chilled air inside).
What about after a delid? I'd love to see that.
I have been wanting to see a video on this block for months and finally
Water chillers are available for under $400 which are more power efficient than peltier systems and can easily supply water at temperatures in the 0 C range or for more $s even lower. You may have to worry about condensation on the tubing, but a little insulation provides an easy fix. Adding a chiller to a loop does require a little DIY but is not a complicated build.
Finally, a use for your stockpile of stock box coolers.
Our box cooler now identifies as a pump... I love this channel!
4:24 "cats are known for dropping things." Linus is a cat confirmed 8/11/2022
You need to know the relative humidity to calculate dew point as well, so that brain box must have a hydrometer in there as well. Very slick!
15:03 der8auer you can't make jokes like that, i spit out my water through my nose haha.
15:04 love it mate, crazy times hey.
Very good cat video, liked.
Back when we were trying to oc another hot CPU, the dual-cored Pentium-D, I slapped a 100w pelt on top of a copper waterblock and cooled that with a Thermaltake SLK800.
The advantages being that it allowed the watercooling to function normally, did not require the peltier to be running all the time, and allowed a lower power tec to assist in cooling without running into that wattage cooling wall.
Others did similar things with pelts as inline waterchillers, which can be a simple as a second waterblock paired to a tec and cooled by a second watercooling/radiator setup or just large hsf/block of alluminium.
It's funny to remember that the Pentium-D was only like 130w and got all that bad press anyways.
Sounds very adventurous. What's a pelt though?
@@Ben-ld1qi it's that thing the waterblock in the vid is using for additional cooling
@@molochi thanks
I just need to say this. Your videos are already great and a useful resource of information... but something about your cat just laying on your desk, just chilling there, makes the video twice as good. I mean, not only do I get to see cool tech stuffs, learning stuffs, but I also get to see cat be adorable in background? Yes.
15:02 Brilliant, you had me laughing so hard my cat came over to see what was going on...
😂😂
I was waiting so long for someone making a video about the new cryo. Finaly and thank you!
sweet but how would the CPU handle City Skylines with 30 Mods, 2000 Assets, High sim settings TM:PE and a pop over 100,000 Cims
Roman you are absolutely incredible. Thanks EK and Intel 6.2Ghz is amazing
For enthusiasts chasing overclocking performance a Peltier device could be a worthwhile option, however, for everyday regular use I perceive only inconveniences.
Unreal how high that 13900K is clocking with that TEC! Good stuff, Roman! Keep it coming!
I don't understand why they would put the Peltier cooler directly on the CPU and not simply use it to chill the water. There are a couple of advantages to chilling the water, the first is that you can pre-chill a volume of water for prolonged thermal stability, more thermal mass gives you more constant temperatures. Direct application also has the terrible disadvantage of forcing the Peltier cooler to mitigate all of the heat at the cost of equivalent energy to that heat. Then the water only moves the heat away from the chiller at additional expense.
If the water is chilled most of the heat is dissipated by the normal heat loss at the rate of a room temperature water cooler, with the additional level of cooling only, being powered by the chiller providing a significant power saving. The only advantage to direct application of the Peltier cooler is sub zero cooling which would be a condensation problem. The choices selected were for a novelty item. The practical application has been completely ignored here. Move the chiller to the water tank.
Put thermal sensors on the CPU, water tank and tubing. The Peltier can be used as a chiller, a dehumidifier, and an evaporator cyclically, since the thermal mass would provide stable duration. This would lower the dew point inside the chassis, the heat could then be used to evaporate the moisture and pump it back out into the room and keep the water tank topped off.
I used a Peltier on a Celeron II many years ago. I exceeded 50% on the overclock.
wow, total 2001 flashbacks, way cleaner than I had with a Danger Den Maze 2, 2 of them, atop a "buddy milled" cold plate and 4 15.8V pelts @12v for efficiency.... Yay AMD Athlon Barton Core @ 2.95GHZ!
Enjoyed it, one question though when you mention the TEK of 210W can't cool the 300W CPU.
The way I understand it, the power consumption of a TEK is proportional to the deltaT across the element and not directly the heat load. So it's not just the capacity of the TEK power consumption, it's also related to the capacity of the heatsink to transfer the total load, not just TEK Power = Load Power. So if 210W can generate a delta T of 30°C across the TEK, and your goal is 15°C on the cold side, then as long as your waterblock can hold the hot side to
15:14 The fan that identifies as a pump 😂
15:03 This is fucking golden 💀
4:23 they're also known for their exceptional electrostatic potential
Thing about TEC I learned from astronomy is that they can freeze surrounding air to -40 and if this air dispates are the case it might cause frost and even freeze the coolant
Us seeing 6.2Ghz: Wow! Just Wow!
Our grandkids in a distant future: 8GHz?! I can fart at a higher clock rate.
What I do and have done for a while is I have the radiator outside, soldered the fans onto a few ethernet cat 6 S/FTP cables, and pump the liquid straight from the blocks and out.
But I really should delid the CPU, as that's my largest limitation, as well as a quite mid-tier motherboard. Never been able to thermal-throttle my GPU, have yet to shunt-mod it.
The components are quite aged by now though. But since ambient outside during winter is subzero, and during summer quite high, there's quite some variance. Thanks to very loud fans and the fact I only have two of them, I can power them from the mobo, set the fan curve appropriate to the temperature of the CPU and it's all fine.
But recently I pushed voltage up and now my CPU can sit at 99°C while my GPU is only at 20~30°C - both being loaded nearly to the limit. I hope delidding w/ LM will help better transfer heat from the CPU to the block.
But that's just one way to solve it. A very budget oriented one to get the most out of a unbalanced 2016-era setup.
If you want to tighten the posts with no room just thread in the screws into the top, that will let you tighten the posts, then use something to hold the post while you loosen the screw.
I use Thermoelectric Coolers in elemental analysis to condense out moisture. They’re horribly inefficient and not meant for continuous and sustained loads. They will cool continuously up to a point, but you’re just wasting a ton of power.
I used a TEC cooler for a while in the early 2000s on a AMD FX processor. At the time it was pretty cool but SUPER inefficient and constantly tripping my power supply. Ahh memories
Seriously, didn't you report the TEC power consumption in the 13900k 6.2Ghz result?!
The actual power draw is double the amount you wrote.
This device is literally obscene efficiency wise, 5% more performance for while using double the energy.
10:05 literally looks like a radiator out of a 90s Honda Civic 😂
I believe the first commercial CPU peltier cooler was used in the early 1990s to cool a PowerMac 8100 CPU. That design was short lived as the flaw was the formation of condensation. Apple's solution at the time was to swap out the peltier with a traditional heatsink and fan.
OOO I see You finally gotten proper size Radiator. Iw been using Phobya nova extreme for last 8 years or so :D
As a software developer the communication from Intel and functioning of this software for a $500 product hurts so much LOL.
I love your content, thx for taking the time to make it in English.
nice video! loved it, i actually use an cooler master ml360 sub zero which use the tec technology, on an 9900k
i bought my CPU frame, Lapping kit and 13900k to play PUBG. I am going to run 1080 until i get a 4090. i think i am going to get 2- 360ml rads and this cooler. Ty again, love your videos!
This brings me back to cooling my Q6600 with a Cool-It peltier water cooler. TEC cooling back when CPUs were under 100W was fun but with the higher power consumption today I wouldn't risk it.
David Miller (aka mllrkllr88) removed an inductor from the control unit and that could do the TEC to work at 100% all the time (with its PROs and Cons). Could be useful if you don't want to mess with software or try AM4/AM5. Regards
"Cat's are always known for dropping things." Good point, It's official. I'm calling my next cat Linus.
Nice video to compare to my 13900k. Running 5.7ghz all core and 6.1ghz for best 2 cores at stock voltages. Cinebench r20 single scoring 915 here. I have a custom loop with 2x 480mm rads and a rtx 390 in the loop.
Noice. Which case are you using that houses 480mm rads? I'm personally om the look out for a case that can x3 420mm/480mm rads but that's also not too gigantic.
All that for 100mhz? I'm on an LFII 420 at 5.6ghz all core
@@jayr8282 i love the arctic lf2 line up
@@Ben-ld1qi Hey Ben, Running it on a Thermaltake P5.
@@jayr8282 I can probably do 5.8 all core with a little more voltage my temps settled in around 85c all core 5.7
I'm impressed by the insane numbers before even watching the video^^
wtf?
Did you measure power draw? How is a 210W TEC getting sufficient power from a 150W 8 pin PCI-E connector?
The power consumption of a TEC is a value internal to the operation of the TEC itself and does not relate in a limiting way to the heat drawn through the devise. For instance, if the efficiency of the TEC was such that its power consumption was only 30 Watts, that would NOT mean that the TEC would only be useful on a 30 Watt CPU load.
beautiful video with lots of great information, im waiting on your updated 13900k software to make my purchase. waiting for the final software
Great video! Thank You!
As of the problem of the CPU recognition, using Wireshark and sniffing USB (if not encrypted) a small C code can fake and inject the right CPU type. Unfortunately I dont have EK Tec on my hands yet to check it.
Your screen looks similar to mine.. LOL in a good way. You have an steam acc and also OBS Studio. So you play games and make music to.. hehe awesome!!!
this would work a lot better if intel wasn't putting out 300W+ CPUs. This would be perfect for a 7700X.
Throw out e-cores make 8 p-core high frequency bin CPU. Everyone is asking but they're not willing to listen.
@@sznikers the Pcores alone are over 200W.
Did i miss vid or You never played around with Peltiers ?? Had one back at start of 200's runnin on my DIY water cooling lop with car radiator aquarium pump and old pickles jar as res :D
@@lordzed83 I messed with peltier cooling on a 4790K. I still have the modules but haven't used them for anything in ages because they're a hassle to setup.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking yeah but they dont have to be. The 12 and 13th series seem to be configured solely to have more core count on the box than amd and higher frequency on the box than amd. If that nonsense obsession was thrown out a very sensible and very high performance sku is possible. They release gazillion sku's anyway, they even already have p-core only skus in xeon lineup offering nice efficiency. They just wall it off from us which is nonsense cause consumer market is perfect for p-cores. Most home stuff either doesn't scale with gazyllion cores or even if it could scale the code is not written to allow so. Cool they can have higher blender score than amd but rendering belongs to render farms. People play CoD with home PCs not simulate chemical reactions. At most some use Adobe software which loves strong threads too. 6 cores seem to be sweetspot nowdays, 8 cores gives little spare room for future developments. There are workstations and rent by the hour cloud solutions for professional work, this is consumer platform.
I know they're powerhungry as configured right now.
My bet is if you disabled everything but 8 p-cores (gpu,e-cores) then finetuned the power draw you could get cpu second only to 13900k in non pro scenarios but at half powerdraw or less. One thinks e-cores draw little power (50-70w for 16c?) but thats 50% of powerbudget of 125w SKU, and around 100W is what you want them configured for great performance without turning room into sauna. You could try that for video, "can stock 7950X/12900K be beaten with fine tuned eight 13th gen p-cores in games at less power draw" and/or lets say adobe pudget tests.
Just to make sure I am getting the setup: A 5000 Watt external cooler is used to cool a part that can generate 300 Watt of heat ?
Thank you for the video. I bought it but not yet installed. I think i will soon after watching your video !!!
how much power is the TEC pulling during these tests? Is this safe to run in cryo mode 24/7 on a workstation or is this just a fancy XOC thing to get the benchmarks?
cats are 4 pawns Linus, always dropping something
Cats don't drop things. They push things that are in their way, and they just happen to fall on the ground. :)
came here for the tech, stayed for the cat
I'm guessing the old design might actually have a thermometer for the hot side as well, but it doesn't need to be wired externally as the controller is directly on top of it already.
This is the way to go. I've been using a Frankensteined tec cooler for the last 15 years but it's only now that I'll splash out and get this product. The unfortunate thing is that it will only be compatible with socket 1700.
Interesting. Have you considered another test with some "liquid metal" instead of thermal paste as the CPU die/heatsink mating compound?
Tests elsewhere on YT have reported notable thermal improvements with this change alone. I wonder if perhaps "liquid metal" would have any positive/negative/neutral impact on power consumption/CPU performance bump ratio?
Liquid metal would be a very bad match for sub ambient cooling. Thermal grizzly actually gives a lower temp spec of 10°C minimum to use conductonaut.
The TEC cooler could solidify the liquid metal under some circumstances..
Sub ambient, high performance thermal paste is the way to go.
Very neato. The whole liquid nitrogen competitions are the equivlant of gun shooting competitions where they have you try to shoot a target 2 miles out but the catch is that the target is something like 10 meters by 10 meters in size, and these shooters shoot so many bullets that they're essentially able to eventually walk a bullet onto the target. Very insulting to those who're in Olympic clay or rapid-fire, or something like black powder/muzzle loader shooting competitions.
I don't get the 9 computer fan setup used by some TH-camrs.
Almost any car radiator + car fan bought in a scrapyard would yield better thermals for a fraction of the price. Am I missing something here?
Also, the Peltier could be used in a liquid-to-liquid heat exchanger instead of direct mount to the CPU. It would cool down the liquid (not water) just before entering the CPU's waterblock, and have its hot side cooled down by the water exhausted by the CPU's waterblock. Thermal conductivity of the Peltier wouldn't be an issue anymore.
One of the coolest things involving Tec is it can be used to create electricity. If you're camping in the Winter, & face the cold side to the cold air, & the hot side towards your fire it will produce electricity.
4:24 , after all these years I just found out Linus is a cat.
Any idea how much power the tec is using? That's really impressive if it's a reasonable amount considering it's only 1 pcie connector.
I remember tec/hybrid coolers before just not being efficient enough to justify the difference
A Peltier device is quite inefficient for lowering CPU temps: it must AT LEAST use the CPU wattage to maintain the temperature, otherwise it will overheat. It kind of acts like a very inefficient heat pump! I don't remember the numbers exactly, but you must add around 30% to the CPU wattage. So the total power consumption will be : CPU_wattage + (CPU_wattage x 1.3)... and even more if you want to have very low CPU temps. (I've used a 54W and 72W peltier to cool a Celeron 300A, which is rated 20W, but can go up to 40W when overclocked).
What is special in this setup is the controller board! It will keep the Peltier operating power in sync with the CPU power, which is really interesting (otherwise the CPU would freeze when idle).
These coolers have been interesting to me since I saw them roughly 17-18 or so years ago…….. although they were much more fiddly, cumbersome and required much more technical knowledge. I got myself one of those Cooler Master Intel 11th Gen peltier coolers (for roughly $120USD BRAND NEW & SEALED) with a built in 360mm radiator and looking to mod it fro my AMD AM4 rig. I would love to get that going as a starting point 💪🥳🥰
What if they made tec coolers of graphene and carbon nano tubes huh?
Heat and power transfer would be so much more efficient.
22:00 that 4090 still looks unreal
that single core score is absolutely insane for ambient cooling , just 2.5years ago a 10900k at 5.3GHz did 530~, so the 13900k here is 77% faster!
the cat is pretty chill
9:52 - that's an ASUS problem. For some reason, they've decided to crowd the socket on all of their LGA 1700 boards.
15:09 so offensive! Don't stop! 😂😂😂😂
Wow. Since power efficency is already out the windows, I wonder if putting a chiller on the water side would help even more.
Crazy hardware setup, hilarious software setup 🤣
I ordered one of these. Hope that patch releases soon