Thanks for this video, Jenna. My biggest pet peeve is the clumsy "As You Know" exposition. It's clearly only for the audience's benefit. If the character already knows this information, then why even bother explaining? "Hello, George, my stepbrother since our parents got married four years ago."
In my "Sovereign Species" series, canonically the books are memory transcripts taken from the inside of the main character's memories (with 3rd person segments to fill in the gaps), and as they're making these records, they're not sure all of them are going to survive, so the sequels to the first one will summarize the events that happened in the series so far just in case one of the memory transcript records go extinct.
Sometimes it works in a speech: "May i remind you what brought us here together". Or ""We are not strangers, we are brothers. You can talk to me" or "Have you forgotten, what we've gone through? This and that? Why are you acting like this now?"
I keep trying to get somebody to say _anything_ about an obvious paradox here. If no one *ever* talks like this then how does anybody ever get arrested over evidence collected from a federal wiretap
"As you know" is basically every episode of Law & Order where cops stand around talking to other cops about the details of their jobs, which they already know, because they are cops.
Yeah; but, if it's done right, it comes across as professionals commiserating about their day, rather than as one person assuming the other doesn't know things. I have noticed, though, that it often seems as if crime shows are written entirely/nearly so for cops or navy members (esp. the super patriotic and/or blue vs you types). Likewise, there are the ones that are written for the larger audience, and yet sometimes act from an assumption that the larger audience has never encountered that genre or anything about the career field and, thus, needs something explained that is found in nearly every crime show. Then, there are the ones where the investigating officers leap to a specific conclusion that the rest of the episode then shows to be true, even though, in real life, there are multiple other possibilities. I still have a few favorite series, though. :)
I can forgive it for law and order because there is a lot of comparing notes and evidence. You share what you believe should be knowledge to everyone and if something is missing someone should catch it and add it in. Lots of back and forth going over the same evidence in law enforcement and actual legal work.
There is nothing quite like reading a paragraph, understanding what happened then realizing they didn't strictly say any of what I just understood to have happened. They definitely meant it, but they left it to me to put together.
That just speaks highly of the writer's skills bc they managed to successfully imply sth very specific while avoiding to put it bluntly. It's a between the lines kinda thing. They painted the image by avoiding to describe it.
yeah, the advice my husband got after writing a book is 'show don't tell'. no need to explain everything, throw your readers into the thick of it and let them figure out things as they read.
I think #10 is actually the hardest to avoid. It needs learning. For example, I was writing a scene describing how the characters heart is racing, everything’s spinning, a tight rope around his chest. Then I wrote: He couldn’t breathe, drowning in panic. Or something like that. After a bit of thought I deleted it. Readers should get that he’s having a panic attack or sth close to it. I mean, it’s kinda all there. The last sentence was not necessary, even though it wasn’t necessarily bad either. Just… redundant?
I show then tell a lot because I naturally overexplain. Not sure if it's the anxiety or the ADHD or just habit? I have absolutely written stuff I cut so I can show and not tell so much
Thank you Jenna...my problem is that I doubt that I am making sense so I feel tempted to add more detail 🤔 so thank you for this video. I don't want my future readers to think I am being patronizing or condescending.
When I wrote my first novel, I knew that having a character give a history lesson to another was info dumping, so I was somewhat cheeky about it, where the character warns the other that it's a bunch of boring details no one really cares about. My readers, in response, enjoyed that section even though it was info-dumping of a sort. This was certainly not what I expected.
I have committed the "as you know" mistake a few times. I even spoiled an otherwise solid short story with a long "as you know" dialogue between characters who knew, as well as adding info dumping in the narrative. When I have time I want to rewrite it, making the dialogue more natural and having the reader understand from the context who is who and what's happening.
About "as you know"... yesterday I've read a book, where the main character asks another women if she's gonna go to some celebration, and then she answers.... "you mean the celebration that happens every year in spring with all the (dancing, food list, guest list). It is the biggest celebration of the year! I never miss it." At this point a rolled my eyes as much as it was possible.....
Why would they do that and spoil the deets about the party? Wouldn’t it make more sense to reveal the details about the party, you know, at the party????
I mean, it could be that the second character was snarkily responding to a question with a stupidly obvious answer. Like, in real life, someone might ask me if I like D&D, and I might respond with something like “You’re asking if I, the person wearing a dice-print dress and a necklace with a D20 pendant, holding a phone with D&D-themed stickers all over the case and a picture of my D&D party as the wallpaper, and sitting in a bedroom with a massive pile of D&D books and two bulging bags of dice next to the bed, like D&D? Of course I like D&D!” I’m not trying to explain it to this person or a hypothetical audience; I’m pointing out why it’s obvious and asking about it makes them sound stupid. Of course, I haven’t actually read the book you’re talking about, so I don’t know whether that’s the case there.
Alternative way to write this if you MUST: A: You gonna do the celebration? B: have I ever missed it? A: I mean, no but like why? B: it's just the passion in the dance and the love poured into the (specific food) and just getting to see everyone again! It's too big a celebration to miss. Still sucks but it's slightly better
3:00 "As you know Bob, this technique is called As You Know, Bob, where a writer dumbs exposition onto the audience under the guise of educating a character that should slready know this since they live in the setting and stuff."
I try to avoid dialogue tags if I can. I prefer action tags as they're less intrusive and give you an idea of body language, tone of voice, facial expressions, etc instead. Sometimes I use dialogue tags too, of course. But just, in general, I try to avoid them. Also, not all the time.
Over the last year you really motivated me to sit down and finally start writing a story I had in my head for a long time, yesterday I finally surpassed the 400 pages, but there is still a lot to write!
An example I found interesting in subverting the ‘worldbuilding infodump’ was the foreword that Anne McCaffery put at the start of her novel Dragonflight. It gave the basic summary of the world’s existence in a separate context from the rest of the novel, which divorced the exposition from the actual story crafting in a way that made it skippable if you didn’t need it for the context, like for a person who had already read the book before.
I actually DNFed a murder mystery because they just kept repeating character traits over and over again. I read about 60% of the book because I was interested in the "who done it" but at around the 60% mark I decided I didn't want to know that much.
I am kind of facing this conundrum right now. I am writing in a whole new fantasy universe (independent magic system, whole new races and lore, terms and languages, etc.), and writing for an audience of a younger demographic (i.e., probably middle school). However, info dumps and exposition would absolutely kill any interest in the story, as it is comparatively short so far (hopefully longer in the future). It is a very tough rope to balance on. I am trying to give enough in-character exposition, like "Ah-ha, so you're doing THAT thing!" stuff, while keeping the rest kind of mysterious intentionally, hoping that maintains interest for future work. Not sure if it will work, though.
Exposition is neither good nor bad, it's how you do it that counts. Think of *the big twinkie* from Ghostbusters. That was a great way for the writers to explain the situation, without pulling the audience out of the moment.
Regarding the theme, I think the writer may not know or be conscious about them. My editor found themes in my book I had no idea were there, but rereading it, they now seem not only obvious, but central to the plot.
I feel like this is a generalized concept that is usually untrue. Most of the time this happens because we lack confidence in our own ability to write in a way that people will understand, not that we think they're too stupid to understand. That's a big difference. This is especially the case with the themes.
It doesn't matter why you're doing it. You still treating your audience as if they're dumb by over explaining. If you can't write a story without letting go of the idea that everyone will read it as you want them to, then you have to work on yourself, not project that on your readers.
One of Sarah J Mass's books has a 3-chapters info dump, I thought I was gonna d i e trying to get through it. And that was the first book of hers I had ever picked up. 😳
I also think another exception to the showing and telling guideline is if you're trying to set stuff up, although in this case it would be telling and showing. Say for example you want to set up a villain introduction. A great tactic can be to have characters tell us about physical and personality characteristics, as that builds anticipation. The only thing then is that you have to make sure to pay that setup off later.
My favorite fix for "as you know" is inner monologue. It doesn't always work, of course, but when it does... *chef's kiss* You don't just get the exposition but you also get character information. Like, alaser gun importanttothe plot. You can do "as you know" or you can have the person wax poetically in his head over the gun like people do cars. It says a lot about him while giving you needed info. However, if there's no emotion, it doesn't work. Like, if I got it, my inner thought would be "It's a laser gun." Lol
I feel like having a character being passionate about a subject helps a great deal to give info, as they will think about said subject and explain it more naturally. Like in your example, a weapon nerd would be perfect to give details about the laser gun without it feeling forced, as long as you don't overdo it
I once wrote an info dump that was also for the two protagonists, who were freaking out for very valid reasons, while the third character, explanation aside, was shocked that they didn't know what to her was very basic knowledge and practically called them idiots. So I hope that it was also a good first interaction.
One thing I love is when a line of dialogue is just sitting in the context of the scene (or opens it. That can be funny), and we can infer who said it without attribution. I think it boosts context/immersion and definitely helps define characters.
Thanks for this video. I wound up DNF'ing a book because the authoring was lecturing the reader through the characters and it got to the point where it felt like she was hitting us over the head with the book repeatedly. I know that was technically her point because she wrote it in response to another author. but i had wished she went about it in a different way.
I've partially done #1. It's a character using a non-English word and the person they're talking to going "What?" which prompts a short explanation. It's never more than a line or two and I feel it works because it's how conversations go. I also don't really do it cause I think people can't look things up (I already fight with myself to keep semi-obscure words in my book on that basis). At least I hope I don't.
Imo, I think it's fine to explain something if it's apart of the plot. Or something that relates to said plot. Like how Iroh in ATLA explains, in great detail, how lightningbending works because it's important to Zuko, another character, and thus important to his plot. But if you stop the entire flow because you think the readers don't know what an ohm is, then yeah, I'm gonna be annoyed.
That one makes sense. You’re not pausing to explain things because you think the audience doesn’t know; you’re explaining them because there’s a character who doesn’t know. A character who needs things explained can definitely come in handy, though the character should of course serve a bigger purpose to the plot than needing explanations.The Disney movie Wreck-It Ralph actually does this really well: Sergeant Calhoun is new to the arcade where the story is set, so the audience gets to learn some important information about the setting when Felix, who’s been there much longer, explains things to her. She also gets to provide some exposition of her own, since she’s familiar with the antagonistic Cy-Bugs, having fought them for her whole life, while the other characters have never encountered them before. And of course, this exposition is delivered naturally, not as long, boring infodumps. (Sorry for the essay; I tend to ramble a lot.)
Sometimes authors completely disrespect their readers. I still remembering picking up one of Heinlein's later novels. The protagonist was an author who procedes to tell another character (paraphrased) "I don't worry about ideas. I file off the serial numbers, rinse and repeat. They never notice." It was clear from anyone reading his later novels that Heinlein was doing that to his actual novels. I never expected a publisher to let that snippet through. Will never forget it. I already had problems with Heinlein. That sealed the deal.
I'm constantly struggling with 'showing enough'. Some complain there's not enough information to figure out the world, others complain there's too much. Finding that 'just enough' zone is going to take practice. Another good video. Loved Shut Up and Write the Book. I've been recommending it to my writer friends.
I'm actually amazed this video didn't feel like a personal attack. I am very very guilty of info dumping but from what I can tell I'm not even entirely certain I'm guilty of two others on this list. I'll probably never publish a damn thing let's be honest but I've improved leaps and bounds over the years just listening to Jenna and remembering where my worst weaknesses are. I wish more mentors in general had Jenna's 'cut the crap' attitude and knew how to soften it with humor like she does. Before I started watching Jenna's videos I wouldn't be surprised one little bit if I could find a singular work of mine get a blackout bingo board of this list. So thank you again Jenna, keep up the good work.
Your snarky quips are the absolute best XD A college teacher was the one that told me that every piece of dialogue needed to have a dialogue tag. Which is silly because i was writing a back and forth conversation. XD So it's not just an elementary school thing apparently. Thank goodness that lady was wrong because its just as annoying to write as it is to read XD Thank you for all your tips! Could you do a video talking about what classifies and how to write Dark Fantasy Elements! Please!!!! ❤️❤️❤️
7: A creative writing assignment in high school had the opposite view and they said please add more than I/he/she/they said and more of all the other ones too. 8: I had that more with tie-in novels for The X Files, where the second or third chapter just dumped all the lore and backstory a few paragraphs in. Might help if you hadn't seen the show maybe but 90s me after the second or third time reading it just skipped over it.
I scratched the first two drafts of my current project because of "as you know" over and over. It's first person retrospective an written as if it were a real memoir in the imaginary universe so its been a struggle to make my exposition make sense. Trying a bunch of "I remember when" followed by a personal anecdote from the narrator that ties into the imagined world events being explained. idk how much better that is but it's what I can manage so far lol
I dunno if this will help, but as a reader I really, really do prefer exposition paragraphs or even explaining a thing about the world to someone who has reason not to know. Even though I know that the fish out of water/new in town/child character is sometimes explicitly there to have the world explained to for *my* benefit, it feels infinitely less condescending than having "as you know" said out loud. Exposition paragraphs, I think, just need to come in at the appropriate time. Is the moon pink? Set a scene at night, let the character look out the window and observe that the pink moon is hanging high in the sky. Has it just been revealed the dark lord has returned? Now's the time to talk about how he kidnapped all the puppies 1000 years ago and no puppy is safe until he's defeated again.
Even at the beginning of the story, "as you know" is a lazy form of exposition. A character shouldn't explain to another character what that character already knows. _Maybe_ a brief reminder if it's important.
Perfect vehicle for exposition: the archive machine is malfunctioning, irritating the main character by reciting historical events that she already knows. Then, just as the archive machine is about to explain something potentially provocative, it gets fixed, to the characters relief. Leaving the audience hanging.
When I don’t treat them like they don’t know anything they complain it’s not enough information lol. If I go over their heads they throw jabs. Oh well. The ones with imaginations and minds of their own love my works ❤
Sometimes you gotta step back and wonder if you’re being pretentious, buddy. ‘Only readers with a mind of their own love my works’. Maybe your work just isn’t good, or only catches a small audience. Either is valid, but don’t be weird about it
My biggest pet peeves is definetly: "Dialogue tags": I can manage a few conversation type (most notably if it's rapid back and forth where the characters say one sentence then the other replied) but if I have a character say a sentence, then do an action, then talk again, I usually add "he/she added" at the end of the second just so I feel like I've conveyed that it was that character that said the last part. "World Building": This one isn't as big in my writing. I'll add a "first glance" description of the area once the characters get there, but longer Tolkien-like explenations isn't my cuppa tea. But I have a hibt of repeating myself a little bit in the descriptions because in my mind, the world is mostly copy paste from location to location with smaller changes if I see it. But my biggest problem in writing is that I often find myself looping the story. They discover the same type of areas, the conversations can feel repetative and the characters either feel too boring or too generic (at least that's what I think when I'm writing them). I often struggle with balancing all the things that makes a book readable.
I also once read a book where the character wrote a song and that song was first hyped up beyond measure as genius and deep and raw etc but when the lyrics were revealed, well... I was not just disappointed, I was mad, and then I laughed, and then I sped up my reading of that book like three times, that's how bad they were. Dunno if it's the same book but I feel like it might have been 0_0 if you know you know
Thank God I did none of this mistakes! I'm improving! Woooo! My only problem is trying to balance the show and tell. But I'll work that out with experience
I immediately noticed that I repeated some info. Thank goodness for editing, beta readers, and critique partners. Super essential things to include before sending off for professional edits!
This has got be my favorite of your videos so far! All the examples were especially helpful. I had honestly never even thought of the "As you know" thing, but now I'm going to be on the lookout for it.
For number 2, in one of my WIPs I have two parts (or prechapters) that already explain my world's history and my female lead character's background. (Too bad people are too lazy to read them and are always confused why this, that, and the other thing is happening.)
I'm glad you mentioned what i like to call "telling as showing" (you "tell" the audience something but what you're really doing is showing your narrator's assumptions/worldview, the REAL telling would be to say "Bob thought X" which "Alice was totally X" is not). I love employing that as a rhetorical device paired closely with a scene of Alice definitely not being X - probably its own trope at this point, but I chuckle every time.
That was an interesting opening: 'well here is a video about how writers insult their audience's intelligence and how to avoid these. but first if you want to be notified of my uploads, _you know what to do_ [proceeds explaining what to do]' insulting both those who do know what to do (by explaining it) and those who don't (by asserting they should have known)
#5 reminds me of Haunting Adeline and how often Adeline's hair was described from her own POV waaaayyy too many times. I DNF'd that book for so many reasons, and none of it was for the triggers.
Thank you for this video Jenna. Readers are more capable of understanding what people think. It's not "As you know" but I've accidentally used something similar. I agree that themes should be subtle and not stated outright. Recaps I also agree aren't necessary. I'm sure the readers will get it the first time. I've learned not to use too many dialogue tags. Thank you for the humor and knowledge you add to our lives.
Jenna, you forgot to mention context clues in the first point. There is nothing wrong with explaining terraforming, because its a scifi term that readers new to the genre may not know. But the better way to do this is to add a bit of description that gives context to the actions in relations to the characters or story. This helps people pick up on ideas amd concepts without spelling it out as much. Adding details can also be used to add characterization or show how the thing being described is perceived or affected those around it.
The "As you know..." issue also happens in movies for some odd reason. And it's So unnatural. Nobody explains to others something they already both know.
I think my favorite subversion in stating themes was Homer Badman. Marge: Hasn't this whole experience taught you not to believe everything you see on TV? Homer: Marge, my dear, I haven't learned a thing.
Point# 3!! Yes, please. Can we just send this message to Hollywood? Some of these shows got me annoyed regularly because of this. And what's sad is usually I'm right there with them and have the same views but it gets to be too much.
I just read a book that committed so many of these sins. Of particular annoyance were the embarrassingly obviously stated theme, and the author patting herself on the back with excerpts from the novel the protagonist was writing receiving raving praise from every other character. Uggggggh.
One time I finished my story with an act I didn't explain how it did but one reader told me they wanted to know how even though it was not exactly part of the story
Number 4: I will continue to bring up the soccer game from chapter three throughout the rest of my novel, it was a turning point for multiple characters and I’m taking my time bringing it back up for each of them. Does this still count as a violation of number 4? Number 9: I actually don’t like to use character descriptions at all. If I want to depict a character as beautiful, I usually focus on another character’s reaction to seeing them rather than their actual physical appearance because I want my readers to picture whatever they find beautiful for themselves as they read it. If they can relate to the character that’s reacting to another character’s beauty without needing to read specific physical traits, then I think I did my job right. For example; Character One entered the cafe, and Character Two is seeing it in slow motion as One smiled at them, the sun shining all around, and Two losing their breath at the sight and needing to pause for a moment just to soak it in.
My flaw on this list is #5 REPETITION. Examples: I used the word "smirk" countless times and needlessly. I sometimes describe the same action in different scenes with the exact same wording.
The mentality I take for the story I am writing is that if you don't get it, then fine, that's actually partially what I wanted. I want to write a story that makes you think and try to figure things out, so i expect some people to not get it.
I'd love your guide, but the lynx below looks angry *and* sick, so maybe I won't stick my hand in to get the guide that's in the lynx! I sure hope I can find it somewhere else!
3 things, i agree with all said here, these are just side along of things i personally like that coincide with points made 1) stating your theme explicitly without making it obvious you stating your theme explicitly. i love books when they have a character essentially say the theme but they writer docent draw attention to it and you don't relies it until you go back for a re-read and than it's just like "Wait a minute.' 2) recapping details but adding a new perspective or twist to it each time. "He had beautiful sea green eyes" says the character in love with him "eyes the color of a poisoned sea" says the character that hates him. 3) telling is great for a dry wit, and fast paced scenes.
I did the as you know thing with my draft once, but it’s sarcastic, and coming from a character who is pretentious, and in a specialized field. Thanks for reminding me to go back and check that’s clear
Regarding dictionary. I read historical romances which often include time period accurate terminology that is not necessarily familiar to average reader. How the author handles those words is one of my "good book/bad book" criteria. In a good book the author is able to slip enough information nearby to make naturally clear what is meant without resorting to "she picked up xyz, which is ..."
Yeah, that's my pet peeve! And it's so easy to fix, instead of "she picked up houpelande, which is such-and-such garment" author can use better verb - even "she put on houpelande" gives reader information that whatever houpelande looks like it is in fact some kind of garment :)
@@miramari732 exactly. And then add some character POV how they love the voluminous surplus of fabric or how they never believed being able to afford something like that. I don't mind author going in details. I read for the historical as well as the romance. If the author wants to spend 5 pages for how paper was produced, I'm in for it as long as it's well tied in to the story.
@@ulla7378 Yeah, like if MC is working as papermaker and that's description of their day in life, then go on, but wikipedia page about it for no reason - no thank you!
The Nightwatch by Sergej Lukyanenko is definitely guilty of the first. He overexplained the concept of his parallel dimension and how it affects mages and their society into oblivion.
Regarding theme - I think it is fair to say that regardless of what the writer was aiming for, it resides in the mind of the individual reader… and mileage may vary.
Congrats on the new book 'Shut Up and Write the Book'. Love the channel. You make this tough skill fun at the best of times. Now, I am looking for recommendations for a good developmental editor. Since you are not doing that, do you or anyone reading this have suggestions? Thanks in advance and be safe but Have Fun! Life's too flippin' short not to. 🥳
Thanks for this video, Jenna. My biggest pet peeve is the clumsy "As You Know" exposition. It's clearly only for the audience's benefit. If the character already knows this information, then why even bother explaining? "Hello, George, my stepbrother since our parents got married four years ago."
Yes it’s so rare for that “as you know” explanation to work that I can count the times it does on one hand
In my "Sovereign Species" series, canonically the books are memory transcripts taken from the inside of the main character's memories (with 3rd person segments to fill in the gaps), and as they're making these records, they're not sure all of them are going to survive, so the sequels to the first one will summarize the events that happened in the series so far just in case one of the memory transcript records go extinct.
Lol that was cringy 😆
Sometimes it works in a speech: "May i remind you what brought us here together". Or ""We are not strangers, we are brothers. You can talk to me" or "Have you forgotten, what we've gone through? This and that? Why are you acting like this now?"
I keep trying to get somebody to say _anything_ about an obvious paradox here. If no one *ever* talks like this then how does anybody ever get arrested over evidence collected from a federal wiretap
"As you know" is basically every episode of Law & Order where cops stand around talking to other cops about the details of their jobs, which they already know, because they are cops.
Yeah; but, if it's done right, it comes across as professionals commiserating about their day, rather than as one person assuming the other doesn't know things. I have noticed, though, that it often seems as if crime shows are written entirely/nearly so for cops or navy members (esp. the super patriotic and/or blue vs you types). Likewise, there are the ones that are written for the larger audience, and yet sometimes act from an assumption that the larger audience has never encountered that genre or anything about the career field and, thus, needs something explained that is found in nearly every crime show. Then, there are the ones where the investigating officers leap to a specific conclusion that the rest of the episode then shows to be true, even though, in real life, there are multiple other possibilities. I still have a few favorite series, though. :)
I can forgive it for law and order because there is a lot of comparing notes and evidence. You share what you believe should be knowledge to everyone and if something is missing someone should catch it and add it in. Lots of back and forth going over the same evidence in law enforcement and actual legal work.
There is nothing quite like reading a paragraph, understanding what happened then realizing they didn't strictly say any of what I just understood to have happened. They definitely meant it, but they left it to me to put together.
That just speaks highly of the writer's skills bc they managed to successfully imply sth very specific while avoiding to put it bluntly. It's a between the lines kinda thing. They painted the image by avoiding to describe it.
@@nocte.animam If it's not clear I meant that as a good thing. I worded it funny for some reason.
@@kelliker9165 Oh, ik hahaha I was just agreeing with you uwu it's pretty cool when writers do that
yeah, the advice my husband got after writing a book is 'show don't tell'. no need to explain everything, throw your readers into the thick of it and let them figure out things as they read.
@@katrinschirmer8018 I'm in the Thick of It everybody knows!
Sry
My textbook treated me like an idiot once. They made a footnote for Cinderella. As if I, an English literature major, would not know what that was.
I think #10 is actually the hardest to avoid. It needs learning.
For example, I was writing a scene describing how the characters heart is racing, everything’s spinning, a tight rope around his chest. Then I wrote: He couldn’t breathe, drowning in panic. Or something like that.
After a bit of thought I deleted it. Readers should get that he’s having a panic attack or sth close to it. I mean, it’s kinda all there. The last sentence was not necessary, even though it wasn’t necessarily bad either. Just… redundant?
I show then tell a lot because I naturally overexplain. Not sure if it's the anxiety or the ADHD or just habit? I have absolutely written stuff I cut so I can show and not tell so much
I thought the character was having a heart attack
Thank you Jenna...my problem is that I doubt that I am making sense so I feel tempted to add more detail 🤔 so thank you for this video. I don't want my future readers to think I am being patronizing or condescending.
Same here.
Same!
Every time I read/hear "as you know", I think of the film adaptation of The Last Airbender. 🤣
This needs more likes. That’s the first place my brain went…then it plays the stupid scene….
When I wrote my first novel, I knew that having a character give a history lesson to another was info dumping, so I was somewhat cheeky about it, where the character warns the other that it's a bunch of boring details no one really cares about. My readers, in response, enjoyed that section even though it was info-dumping of a sort. This was certainly not what I expected.
Brandon sanderson does this alot. He has a character give an info dump to another and the character/s react like "whoa man that was alot"
@@queerqueen098 when you're Sanderson, you can get away with it. 😂😂
@@BlaizeStewart true lol. that man is an incredible atoryteller, info dumping or not.
I have committed the "as you know" mistake a few times. I even spoiled an otherwise solid short story with a long "as you know" dialogue between characters who knew, as well as adding info dumping in the narrative. When I have time I want to rewrite it, making the dialogue more natural and having the reader understand from the context who is who and what's happening.
About "as you know"... yesterday I've read a book, where the main character asks another women if she's gonna go to some celebration, and then she answers.... "you mean the celebration that happens every year in spring with all the (dancing, food list, guest list). It is the biggest celebration of the year! I never miss it." At this point a rolled my eyes as much as it was possible.....
Why would they do that and spoil the deets about the party? Wouldn’t it make more sense to reveal the details about the party, you know, at the party????
I mean, it could be that the second character was snarkily responding to a question with a stupidly obvious answer. Like, in real life, someone might ask me if I like D&D, and I might respond with something like “You’re asking if I, the person wearing a dice-print dress and a necklace with a D20 pendant, holding a phone with D&D-themed stickers all over the case and a picture of my D&D party as the wallpaper, and sitting in a bedroom with a massive pile of D&D books and two bulging bags of dice next to the bed, like D&D? Of course I like D&D!” I’m not trying to explain it to this person or a hypothetical audience; I’m pointing out why it’s obvious and asking about it makes them sound stupid. Of course, I haven’t actually read the book you’re talking about, so I don’t know whether that’s the case there.
Alternative way to write this if you MUST:
A: You gonna do the celebration?
B: have I ever missed it?
A: I mean, no but like why?
B: it's just the passion in the dance and the love poured into the (specific food) and just getting to see everyone again! It's too big a celebration to miss.
Still sucks but it's slightly better
THIS IS SOMETHING I HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING WITH SO MUCH BUT ABOUT 6 MONTHS AGO I HAD THIS EPIPHANY AND MY WRITING IMPROVED SO MUCH SO FAST
3:00
"As you know Bob, this technique is called As You Know, Bob, where a writer dumbs exposition onto the audience under the guise of educating a character that should slready know this since they live in the setting and stuff."
'As you know, the concept of the suction-pump is centuries old. Really, that's all this is; except: Instead of sucking water, I'm sucking life.'
I try to avoid dialogue tags if I can. I prefer action tags as they're less intrusive and give you an idea of body language, tone of voice, facial expressions, etc instead. Sometimes I use dialogue tags too, of course. But just, in general, I try to avoid them. Also, not all the time.
Over the last year you really motivated me to sit down and finally start writing a story I had in my head for a long time, yesterday I finally surpassed the 400 pages, but there is still a lot to write!
Good luck with your process. I'm sure it'll turn out wonderfully.
@@bhsprinkle Thanks!
An example I found interesting in subverting the ‘worldbuilding infodump’ was the foreword that Anne McCaffery put at the start of her novel Dragonflight. It gave the basic summary of the world’s existence in a separate context from the rest of the novel, which divorced the exposition from the actual story crafting in a way that made it skippable if you didn’t need it for the context, like for a person who had already read the book before.
I actually DNFed a murder mystery because they just kept repeating character traits over and over again. I read about 60% of the book because I was interested in the "who done it" but at around the 60% mark I decided I didn't want to know that much.
I am kind of facing this conundrum right now. I am writing in a whole new fantasy universe (independent magic system, whole new races and lore, terms and languages, etc.), and writing for an audience of a younger demographic (i.e., probably middle school). However, info dumps and exposition would absolutely kill any interest in the story, as it is comparatively short so far (hopefully longer in the future). It is a very tough rope to balance on. I am trying to give enough in-character exposition, like "Ah-ha, so you're doing THAT thing!" stuff, while keeping the rest kind of mysterious intentionally, hoping that maintains interest for future work. Not sure if it will work, though.
Exposition is neither good nor bad, it's how you do it that counts.
Think of *the big twinkie* from Ghostbusters.
That was a great way for the writers to explain the situation, without pulling the audience out of the moment.
I'm sure you'll find a way to make things work. Writing for a younger audience is difficult and I applaud anyone who does. Let your hard work prevail.
Regarding the theme, I think the writer may not know or be conscious about them. My editor found themes in my book I had no idea were there, but rereading it, they now seem not only obvious, but central to the plot.
I feel like this is a generalized concept that is usually untrue. Most of the time this happens because we lack confidence in our own ability to write in a way that people will understand, not that we think they're too stupid to understand. That's a big difference. This is especially the case with the themes.
It doesn't matter why you're doing it. You still treating your audience as if they're dumb by over explaining. If you can't write a story without letting go of the idea that everyone will read it as you want them to, then you have to work on yourself, not project that on your readers.
One of Sarah J Mass's books has a 3-chapters info dump, I thought I was gonna d i e trying to get through it. And that was the first book of hers I had ever picked up. 😳
I have learned more about writing by watching your channel than I ever learned in writing classes. Truth.
I also think another exception to the showing and telling guideline is if you're trying to set stuff up, although in this case it would be telling and showing. Say for example you want to set up a villain introduction. A great tactic can be to have characters tell us about physical and personality characteristics, as that builds anticipation. The only thing then is that you have to make sure to pay that setup off later.
Watching these videos is making me realize just how far I have to go as an author, it's truly a humbling experience that I'm genuinely grateful for🙏
Love these tips. Even as a Webtoon author/artist, these tips are extremely helpful when writing scripts for chapters.
My favorite fix for "as you know" is inner monologue. It doesn't always work, of course, but when it does... *chef's kiss* You don't just get the exposition but you also get character information.
Like, alaser gun importanttothe plot. You can do "as you know" or you can have the person wax poetically in his head over the gun like people do cars. It says a lot about him while giving you needed info.
However, if there's no emotion, it doesn't work. Like, if I got it, my inner thought would be "It's a laser gun." Lol
I feel like having a character being passionate about a subject helps a great deal to give info, as they will think about said subject and explain it more naturally. Like in your example, a weapon nerd would be perfect to give details about the laser gun without it feeling forced, as long as you don't overdo it
This is why I enjoy reading some of my books on kindle, as I can highlight a word I don't know and it will give me a definition straight away.
That's actually a really amazing advantage of ebooks. I prefer physical books but find that feature to be extremely useful.
I once wrote an info dump that was also for the two protagonists, who were freaking out for very valid reasons, while the third character, explanation aside, was shocked that they didn't know what to her was very basic knowledge and practically called them idiots. So I hope that it was also a good first interaction.
One thing I love is when a line of dialogue is just sitting in the context of the scene (or opens it. That can be funny), and we can infer who said it without attribution. I think it boosts context/immersion and definitely helps define characters.
Thanks for this video. I wound up DNF'ing a book because the authoring was lecturing the reader through the characters and it got to the point where it felt like she was hitting us over the head with the book repeatedly. I know that was technically her point because she wrote it in response to another author. but i had wished she went about it in a different way.
I've partially done #1. It's a character using a non-English word and the person they're talking to going "What?" which prompts a short explanation. It's never more than a line or two and I feel it works because it's how conversations go. I also don't really do it cause I think people can't look things up (I already fight with myself to keep semi-obscure words in my book on that basis). At least I hope I don't.
Imo, I think it's fine to explain something if it's apart of the plot. Or something that relates to said plot.
Like how Iroh in ATLA explains, in great detail, how lightningbending works because it's important to Zuko, another character, and thus important to his plot.
But if you stop the entire flow because you think the readers don't know what an ohm is, then yeah, I'm gonna be annoyed.
That one makes sense. You’re not pausing to explain things because you think the audience doesn’t know; you’re explaining them because there’s a character who doesn’t know. A character who needs things explained can definitely come in handy, though the character should of course serve a bigger purpose to the plot than needing explanations.The Disney movie Wreck-It Ralph actually does this really well: Sergeant Calhoun is new to the arcade where the story is set, so the audience gets to learn some important information about the setting when Felix, who’s been there much longer, explains things to her. She also gets to provide some exposition of her own, since she’s familiar with the antagonistic Cy-Bugs, having fought them for her whole life, while the other characters have never encountered them before. And of course, this exposition is delivered naturally, not as long, boring infodumps. (Sorry for the essay; I tend to ramble a lot.)
@@tsifirakiehl4250 We're writers, rambling is what we do. We just do it with structure and purpose. :)
And yes you make a good point.
Sometimes authors completely disrespect their readers. I still remembering picking up one of Heinlein's later novels. The protagonist was an author who procedes to tell another character (paraphrased) "I don't worry about ideas. I file off the serial numbers, rinse and repeat. They never notice." It was clear from anyone reading his later novels that Heinlein was doing that to his actual novels. I never expected a publisher to let that snippet through. Will never forget it. I already had problems with Heinlein. That sealed the deal.
I'm constantly struggling with 'showing enough'. Some complain there's not enough information to figure out the world, others complain there's too much. Finding that 'just enough' zone is going to take practice.
Another good video. Loved Shut Up and Write the Book. I've been recommending it to my writer friends.
This is handy as I'm writing a stage play and working in a new literary form makes it easy to fall back into bad patterns. Thank you, Jenna!
You deserve more recognition, you help me a lot, I love your videos!
I'm actually amazed this video didn't feel like a personal attack. I am very very guilty of info dumping but from what I can tell I'm not even entirely certain I'm guilty of two others on this list. I'll probably never publish a damn thing let's be honest but I've improved leaps and bounds over the years just listening to Jenna and remembering where my worst weaknesses are.
I wish more mentors in general had Jenna's 'cut the crap' attitude and knew how to soften it with humor like she does. Before I started watching Jenna's videos I wouldn't be surprised one little bit if I could find a singular work of mine get a blackout bingo board of this list.
So thank you again Jenna, keep up the good work.
Imagining a race of aliens who feel the need to define every word in a sentence so that "hello, how are you today" becomes an essay.
Congratulations Jenna on Shut up and write and book you make most amazing incredible beautiful creations ! ❤
Your snarky quips are the absolute best XD
A college teacher was the one that told me that every piece of dialogue needed to have a dialogue tag. Which is silly because i was writing a back and forth conversation. XD So it's not just an elementary school thing apparently. Thank goodness that lady was wrong because its just as annoying to write as it is to read XD
Thank you for all your tips! Could you do a video talking about what classifies and how to write Dark Fantasy Elements! Please!!!! ❤️❤️❤️
7: A creative writing assignment in high school had the opposite view and they said please add more than I/he/she/they said and more of all the other ones too.
8: I had that more with tie-in novels for The X Files, where the second or third chapter just dumped all the lore and backstory a few paragraphs in. Might help if you hadn't seen the show maybe but 90s me after the second or third time reading it just skipped over it.
I scratched the first two drafts of my current project because of "as you know" over and over. It's first person retrospective an written as if it were a real memoir in the imaginary universe so its been a struggle to make my exposition make sense. Trying a bunch of "I remember when" followed by a personal anecdote from the narrator that ties into the imagined world events being explained. idk how much better that is but it's what I can manage so far lol
I dunno if this will help, but as a reader I really, really do prefer exposition paragraphs or even explaining a thing about the world to someone who has reason not to know. Even though I know that the fish out of water/new in town/child character is sometimes explicitly there to have the world explained to for *my* benefit, it feels infinitely less condescending than having "as you know" said out loud.
Exposition paragraphs, I think, just need to come in at the appropriate time. Is the moon pink? Set a scene at night, let the character look out the window and observe that the pink moon is hanging high in the sky. Has it just been revealed the dark lord has returned? Now's the time to talk about how he kidnapped all the puppies 1000 years ago and no puppy is safe until he's defeated again.
Number 5….guilty as hell. 😬😬😬 Yeap gonna have to edit that.
Even at the beginning of the story, "as you know" is a lazy form of exposition. A character shouldn't explain to another character what that character already knows. _Maybe_ a brief reminder if it's important.
Perfect vehicle for exposition: the archive machine is malfunctioning, irritating the main character by reciting historical events that she already knows. Then, just as the archive machine is about to explain something potentially provocative, it gets fixed, to the characters relief. Leaving the audience hanging.
I like it!
When I don’t treat them like they don’t know anything they complain it’s not enough information lol. If I go over their heads they throw jabs. Oh well. The ones with imaginations and minds of their own love my works ❤
As writers, we are often between a rock and a hard place.
Sometimes you gotta step back and wonder if you’re being pretentious, buddy. ‘Only readers with a mind of their own love my works’. Maybe your work just isn’t good, or only catches a small audience. Either is valid, but don’t be weird about it
are you srsly saying readers who can’t understand your writing don’t have a mind of their own?
You can’t please everyone you just have to be okay with it.
I recently got Shut Up and Write The Book and its AMAZING. Everytime I read "But Jenna..."
I can hear it 😂😂😂😂
My biggest pet peeves is definetly:
"Dialogue tags": I can manage a few conversation type (most notably if it's rapid back and forth where the characters say one sentence then the other replied) but if I have a character say a sentence, then do an action, then talk again, I usually add "he/she added" at the end of the second just so I feel like I've conveyed that it was that character that said the last part.
"World Building": This one isn't as big in my writing. I'll add a "first glance" description of the area once the characters get there, but longer Tolkien-like explenations isn't my cuppa tea. But I have a hibt of repeating myself a little bit in the descriptions because in my mind, the world is mostly copy paste from location to location with smaller changes if I see it.
But my biggest problem in writing is that I often find myself looping the story. They discover the same type of areas, the conversations can feel repetative and the characters either feel too boring or too generic (at least that's what I think when I'm writing them). I often struggle with balancing all the things that makes a book readable.
I also once read a book where the character wrote a song and that song was first hyped up beyond measure as genius and deep and raw etc but when the lyrics were revealed, well... I was not just disappointed, I was mad, and then I laughed, and then I sped up my reading of that book like three times, that's how bad they were. Dunno if it's the same book but I feel like it might have been 0_0 if you know you know
"As you know . . ." is one of my big pet peeves. I see it so often on TV, in movies and in prose. It really irks me and I'm so glad you included it.
Thank God I did none of this mistakes! I'm improving! Woooo! My only problem is trying to balance the show and tell. But I'll work that out with experience
That whole "like and subscribe" bit at the end was intense.
I immediately noticed that I repeated some info. Thank goodness for editing, beta readers, and critique partners. Super essential things to include before sending off for professional edits!
Oh no. I’m remembering the first chapter of an unfinished book I began a while ago. Paragraphs upon paragraphs of history and world building. 😭
This has got be my favorite of your videos so far! All the examples were especially helpful. I had honestly never even thought of the "As you know" thing, but now I'm going to be on the lookout for it.
Well damn. Guess who's taking a vacation to Editing Village 🙍🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Not gonna lie, themes are the last thing I think about when crafting a story 😅
In my first novel I did a lot of world building info dumps. Yeah. It's part of the learning process.
Thanks so much Jenna! ❤❤❤❤
For number 2, in one of my WIPs I have two parts (or prechapters) that already explain my world's history and my female lead character's background. (Too bad people are too lazy to read them and are always confused why this, that, and the other thing is happening.)
I know. It's a shame that epilogues and pre-chapter 1 material are dying out. I still read that info.
I'm glad you mentioned what i like to call "telling as showing" (you "tell" the audience something but what you're really doing is showing your narrator's assumptions/worldview, the REAL telling would be to say "Bob thought X" which "Alice was totally X" is not). I love employing that as a rhetorical device paired closely with a scene of Alice definitely not being X - probably its own trope at this point, but I chuckle every time.
Jennaaaa, dialogue tags are soo important 😭 I need it to understand the flow of it.....
That was an interesting opening:
'well here is a video about how writers insult their audience's intelligence and how to avoid these.
but first if you want to be notified of my uploads, _you know what to do_ [proceeds explaining what to do]'
insulting both those who do know what to do (by explaining it)
and those who don't (by asserting they should have known)
The show then tell, or tell then show is a very common issue I point out to my clients. Harder to spot in my own work.
#5 reminds me of Haunting Adeline and how often Adeline's hair was described from her own POV waaaayyy too many times. I DNF'd that book for so many reasons, and none of it was for the triggers.
Like the haircut!
Ot: I'm glad to see that you are showing examples of when the rules can be bent or broken.
Thank you for this video Jenna. Readers are more capable of understanding what people think. It's not "As you know" but I've accidentally used something similar. I agree that themes should be subtle and not stated outright. Recaps I also agree aren't necessary. I'm sure the readers will get it the first time. I've learned not to use too many dialogue tags. Thank you for the humor and knowledge you add to our lives.
Jenna, you forgot to mention context clues in the first point. There is nothing wrong with explaining terraforming, because its a scifi term that readers new to the genre may not know.
But the better way to do this is to add a bit of description that gives context to the actions in relations to the characters or story. This helps people pick up on ideas amd concepts without spelling it out as much. Adding details can also be used to add characterization or show how the thing being described is perceived or affected those around it.
The "As you know..." issue also happens in movies for some odd reason. And it's So unnatural. Nobody explains to others something they already both know.
Oh someone actually remembered freeze when mentioning fight or flight... That is so rare.
BRB, reducing my word count by a quarter by deleting unnecessary speech tags.
Exceptionally good video Jenna! I immediately searched my WIP for "as you know" 🤣🤣🤣
If I find the need for a recap, then I find an opportunity to foreshadow.
Omg an intro that was almost below 02:00 minutes ?? That's incredible, keep up the good work
I think my favorite subversion in stating themes was Homer Badman.
Marge: Hasn't this whole experience taught you not to believe everything you see on TV?
Homer: Marge, my dear, I haven't learned a thing.
Point# 3!! Yes, please. Can we just send this message to Hollywood? Some of these shows got me annoyed regularly because of this. And what's sad is usually I'm right there with them and have the same views but it gets to be too much.
I disagree with you on dialogue tags. They are not only necessary to show who is speaking, but also to convey subtext and subtext is very important.
I just read a book that committed so many of these sins. Of particular annoyance were the embarrassingly obviously stated theme, and the author patting herself on the back with excerpts from the novel the protagonist was writing receiving raving praise from every other character. Uggggggh.
One time I finished my story with an act I didn't explain how it did but one reader told me they wanted to know how even though it was not exactly part of the story
Number 4: I will continue to bring up the soccer game from chapter three throughout the rest of my novel, it was a turning point for multiple characters and I’m taking my time bringing it back up for each of them. Does this still count as a violation of number 4?
Number 9: I actually don’t like to use character descriptions at all. If I want to depict a character as beautiful, I usually focus on another character’s reaction to seeing them rather than their actual physical appearance because I want my readers to picture whatever they find beautiful for themselves as they read it. If they can relate to the character that’s reacting to another character’s beauty without needing to read specific physical traits, then I think I did my job right. For example; Character One entered the cafe, and Character Two is seeing it in slow motion as One smiled at them, the sun shining all around, and Two losing their breath at the sight and needing to pause for a moment just to soak it in.
Do you have any other info or good sources on dealing with dialog tags. I have major issues with these.
I think I shall pee on that sacred tree. 🤣🤣
Heard from Reddit. Some people think it's a good idea to condensend thier readers like children.
My flaw on this list is #5 REPETITION. Examples: I used the word "smirk" countless times and needlessly. I sometimes describe the same action in different scenes with the exact same wording.
The mentality I take for the story I am writing is that if you don't get it, then fine, that's actually partially what I wanted. I want to write a story that makes you think and try to figure things out, so i expect some people to not get it.
I'd love your guide, but the lynx below looks angry *and* sick, so maybe I won't stick my hand in to get the guide that's in the lynx! I sure hope I can find it somewhere else!
3 things, i agree with all said here, these are just side along of things i personally like that coincide with points made
1) stating your theme explicitly without making it obvious you stating your theme explicitly. i love books when they have a character essentially say the theme but they writer docent draw attention to it and you don't relies it until you go back for a re-read and than it's just like "Wait a minute.'
2) recapping details but adding a new perspective or twist to it each time.
"He had beautiful sea green eyes" says the character in love with him
"eyes the color of a poisoned sea" says the character that hates him.
3) telling is great for a dry wit, and fast paced scenes.
It's funny to say "To be perfectly frank.." AFTER saying "Not everybody has graduated past Dr. Seuss."
I did the as you know thing with my draft once, but it’s sarcastic, and coming from a character who is pretentious, and in a specialized field. Thanks for reminding me to go back and check that’s clear
#2 always makes me laugh when I see it in a story.
Regarding dictionary. I read historical romances which often include time period accurate terminology that is not necessarily familiar to average reader. How the author handles those words is one of my "good book/bad book" criteria. In a good book the author is able to slip enough information nearby to make naturally clear what is meant without resorting to "she picked up xyz, which is ..."
Yeah, that's my pet peeve! And it's so easy to fix, instead of "she picked up houpelande, which is such-and-such garment" author can use better verb - even "she put on houpelande" gives reader information that whatever houpelande looks like it is in fact some kind of garment :)
@@miramari732 exactly. And then add some character POV how they love the voluminous surplus of fabric or how they never believed being able to afford something like that.
I don't mind author going in details. I read for the historical as well as the romance. If the author wants to spend 5 pages for how paper was produced, I'm in for it as long as it's well tied in to the story.
@@ulla7378 Yeah, like if MC is working as papermaker and that's description of their day in life, then go on, but wikipedia page about it for no reason - no thank you!
The Nightwatch by Sergej Lukyanenko is definitely guilty of the first. He overexplained the concept of his parallel dimension and how it affects mages and their society into oblivion.
Could you give more examples of number six?
Yes yes, excellent video as usual, thank you so much Jenna, but... No one is going to talk about the dialogue tag example? 😂 (Around 8:03 or so)
What is the background song?
Regarding theme - I think it is fair to say that regardless of what the writer was aiming for, it resides in the mind of the individual reader… and mileage may vary.
Congrats on the new book 'Shut Up and Write the Book'. Love the channel. You make this tough skill fun at the best of times. Now, I am looking for recommendations for a good developmental editor. Since you are not doing that, do you or anyone reading this have suggestions? Thanks in advance and be safe but Have Fun! Life's too flippin' short not to. 🥳
I am not explaining what rituals is but I do explain how rituals are working in my story hope that ok lol.
I tend to state the theme at the opening. Lol... guilty.
There's not a singles dialog tag in the novel I'm writing.
Every time I see "as you know", I wanna to shake the neck of whoever wrote that line, honestly.