EDMUND FITZGERALD NEVER RELEASED INFO-Nephew of Victim RALPH WALTON. Steel and Shipping Business
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- The loss felt that day by families of crew resonates hauntingly to this day with those who knew the Edmund Fitzgerald, her limits, her Captain's drive and the Steel Industry. William Spangler Watchman of the Mighty Fitz tribute. Whitefish Bay in 75mph winds. The one crew member found and why he's allegedly still at the bottom. The unreal courage shown by the Captain Bernie Cooper and Crew of the Anderson who were instructed to turn to assist by Coast Guard who stated they could not get out there. More thoughts from Captain Darrell Walton who worked the industry along with his Dad, since 1939 whose Uncle Ralph G. Walton went down with the Fitz. His Dad never recovered from the loss. Plus a very special gift from Darrell to me toward the end. I reveal my own thoughts as to what I believe happened to the "Pride of the American Side." Thanks for your support! Please get in on the conversation, like, subscribe and share!
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I could listen to Capt Darrell talk for hours. A great orator of the great lakes shipping.
Ain't he the best?! I'm so glad I tracked him down...he made the video. Thanks for watching Daniel...HMM
I would love to hear what he thought of the sinking of the Morrell and other famous ships that have gone down. I'm sure he has alot of knowledge on those subjects. Maybe he can have himself and a panel of survivors on a video discussing their individual experiences.
Darryl is a great raconteur. Thanks for these videos!
You're welcome! Capt. D is the best! HMM
Very nice job, Don! Thanks for the ringing of the bell for my Dad, the 30th victim!
Thank you For taking part in these videos What you have told us make a lot sense
My father was a captain on the Reserve the final years of his career, small world.
@@picustchuck My father was Chief Engineer on the Reserve, the night the Fitz went down.
Greetings from SE Kentucky. Your Dad was a hero and was indeed the 30th victim. I hate that he had such a hard life buy I'm sure thanks to you and your fine family made sure that he had some moments of joy in between. Which is what life is all about. Thank you for the fascinating interview that you did. Could listen to y'all talk all day.
Captain Darrell is so much fun to listen to...cheers to his dad. Thanks for watching...HMM
RIP, Wade W. Walton. Thank you for your service.
Indeed...thanks Mr. Walton...HMM
Thank you for the kind words for my Dad...
I live in Duluth Minnesota. I grew up on Puget Sound. The power of Lake Superior has to truly be seen to be believed!
I'd love to take a trip north and spend some time around Superior...White Fish Point...do the whole deal. Thanks for watching...HMM
I remember going to college, Dad drove he was teaching me how to drive, and The Edmund Fitzgerald song cane on...I said I know this ship, what happened to her? And my Dad said, they don't know, but they think it might have been a freak wave.
At the time, rogue waves, were something you experienced but you never really talked about them...until the first one, the Draupner Wave, was recorded in the North Atlantic.
My Dad was a Sailor, he never talked about what he did, but when we were talking about the Fitzgerald, he did tell me one of his experiences, they were in rough seas, the hatches were all sealed, and he was lying in his bunk. The ship was forging through the waves, and then there's this one wave, she started driving into it. Said he was in his bunk, could feel the engines driving the ship down,, all the while saying come up ship, come up ship...then all of a sudden she popped up.
My brother said it best, The Great Lakes, aren't lakes, they're inland seas, and he's not wrong, Chesapeake Bay is another one, and you need to be experienced, before sailing her especially in summer when the thunderstorms hit in the afternoon.
Condolences to the families of this ship, Sailors were just doing their jobs, wanting to complete a task, get home, and tragedy struck, it's hard and something you never get over. Lived near the water my whole life and the water can be calm, soothing, and serenely unforgiving all in a day.
Wow...that's an awesome memory you share with your dad...learning about the Fitz. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and stories here...and thanks for remembering the Mighty Fitz and her crew. HMM
Born in Marquette in 1968 these stories always hit home for me thanks for sharing
There certainly come home for me too...thanks for watching...HMM
Thank you for posting. I remember very well the song from the mid 70's. Being from CT I've always had an interest in maritime history. Fascinating to learn about shipping on the Great Lakes and the story behind this iconic song.
Thanks Jay. Great Lakes shipping is sooo fascinating. I appreciate you taking the time to watch...HMM
Thanks man I appreciate your hard work.
You're welcome Joel...Thanks...HMM
I began my 42 year maritime career two years after the Fitz went down. I've collected a lot of nautical antiques and souvenirs over the years but if somebody gave me the smallest peice of anything from the Edmund Fitzgerald it would be cherished more than everything else I have combined. You're a lucky man.
Thanks; I appreciate you. And yes, I do feel fortunate! HMM
Excellent job!!!
Wow you have a piece of rope from the Fritz after she went down how cool is that!!!
Pretty damn cool! Thanks for watching Richard; I appreciate you...HMM
I spent 9 months on the USNS Maury back in the late 1989 and she was an oceanographic survey ship. We were surveying the west pacific and in January of 1990 we encountered a massive storm while surveying around the Aleutian Islands. The Maury (Now T.S Golden Bear) is 499 feet in length and we had 45 foot plus seas and when we were on the back side of the waves the oncoming wave would go over the wheelhouse and land midship. I used my survival suit as a pillow and would listen to the turbochargers on the mains load and unload to determine how big the waves were. Thank you for the great videos.
Your survival suit as a pillow...wow! Super-cool story, and thanks for sharing it here. No thanks on the 45' seas...Lord. HMM
I would like to thank you. I watched your first video, and learned so much that wasn't told before. This, this is heart wrenching. I do believe she went straight down, her bow pushed under. Perhaps the door was open because they realized she wasn't coming up, and was trying to reach the surface?
This was moving, as was your last one. I don't know how many times I've wiped my eyes, but you bring the compassion, the heart, and the human aspect of this tragedy, not just the facts. You can feel your heart in your videos. Magnificent. Thank you for sharing with us. 😥
I believe that door open from the force of hitting the bottom and was jammed open forever to be a sign of God taken his good men to heaven
A few of my late friend's served on submarines in WW2, in the Mediterranean. She is known for violent heavy storms. In one case a sub was 90 feet underwater and suffered damage from the storms effect. For some reason the captain ordered the sub to surface. He and the first officer were washed overboard and the sub almost sank. The conning tower was full of water and it poured into the sub, one crewman closed the hatch in time. The sub was badly damaged with fittings torn from the sides, crewmen hurt and knocked unconscious.... 90 feet underwater. Never under estimate the fury of the sea.
My late uncle served on the arctic convoys, he saw ship's dissappear in 10-15 seconds, they would hit a huge wave bow on....... gone forever.
God bless all men who go to sea.
Interesting commentary; thanks for sharing it here, John. HMM
Or in the Air...
My girlfriend has lived in Northern Wisconsin her whole life. A number of the crew were from her rural community. Some of them were her classmates in high school. Her father worked on those ore boats as well. Lake Superior is a VERY treacherous lake. Her dad would tell her of waves up to fifty feet sometimes when he was sailing. When the wind starts to blow you want to get off that lake pronto!
Great stories, Frank! Thanks for sharing them here. I've worked the Great Lakes in the winter time...super scary place. HMM
Thank you, Don. This was a really great video! I've had a long-held fascination for the Edmund, and I'm watching it on this, the 47th Anniversary of the tragedy. We never forget.
In my most humble and unimportant opinion, I concur with your opinions entirely. I have always subscribed to Cptn. Bernie Cooper's thoughts & opinions on the matter - mostly because he was there. He said he could see the EF on his radar, & that sailing blind (with both radars out) and in whiteout conditions, the EF was right over Six Fathom Shoal. Also, Cptn. McSorley's charts were 100 years old, & later surveys had showed the Shoal to be situated 1 mile further to the East of Caribou Island than McSorley's charts showed them to be. I think there's quite some significance in that singular detail. Investigators said there was no evidence that the EF ever touched the shoals, but along with Cptn. Cooper I have no choice but to disagree that she bottomed out. Loaded with 26k tons, she didn't need to hit bottom very hard to have done a significant amount of damage. The fact that McSorley had reported his railings as being down is a good indication of major structural damage, and he reported this to Cptn. Cooper shortly after passing by Caribou Island & Six Fathom Shoal. I don't think it's any mere coincidence. The upturned stern section of the hull may not show any evidence that she bottomed out on the shoal - but that section consists of less than 200 feet of her overall length of 729 feet, and as it's impossible to see the bottom of the 500 feet of her forward section - so that theory just doesn't fly with me. Cptn. Cooper believed that the EF was sinking from that moment on, and McSorley's reports that they were taking on water though the pumps were working, and they'd had developed a steep list. He'd lost a couple of vent covers, but they led to the gangways - not to the hold. The EF was beginning to ride lower and lower in the water, so they were losing buoyancy and taking longer to recover every time the large seas pushed them down.
Based on much research I've formed a vivid mental visualisation of how this tragedy unfolded.... I can't even begin to imagine the sheer terror taking over on the bridge each time she went under, nor the sheer relief each time it popped back up..taking moments longer between each one as the EF settled lower..and lower into the water. They would have been existing between each submersion on pure hope - just 15 more miles of pure hope. Much less can I imagine the sheer terror they felt in that moment when they realised that they weren't coming up this time..... My God!
The wreck shows that the two hatch covers directly behind the pilothouse (#20 & #21) are INSIDE THE HOLD, beaten into 'V' shapes.. Now how in heck do you suppose THAT happened? Jusst ONE cubic metre of water weighs one metric ton! So In my mind's eye, when those two (or three?) big rollers that Cptn. Cooper described caught up to the EF a few minutes later and hit her from behind, they would have rolled right up on her spar deck, crushing the EF under the force of tens of thousands of tons of water, and slammed right into the back of the pilothouse with catastrophic force. It would have very likely smashed the hatch-covers numbers 20 & 21 down into the hold (as they are seen on the wreck), and pushed her whole bow nose-down - and with sufficient buoyancy lost, she was not coming up this time... and that pilothouse would never see daylight ever again. ride that experts have estimated that it would have taken just 10 seconds from the surface to the bottom, 530 feet below.
In the opinion of Cptn Cooper, the demise of the EF "was sudden and catastrophic".. He also believed that "she took a nose-dive", and the wreckage is proof of that. The damage to the ship's bow is indicative of a headlong nose-dive - straight into the rocky bottom of The Big Lake.
I've often ventured into contemplations of what went through the minds of those poor men in the pilothouse at this point....
Exactly when did they realise that all hope of safe harbour had run out for them? At what point did the realisation hit them that they really weren't coming back up this time? Certainly SOMEONE realised that they were going down, because SOMEONE made it to the pilothouse door and managed to open it and even dogged it down... There's no way that it was left open and dogged whilst they were under way! My minds eye ventures still further into those few split seconds as the EF took her final plunge into the icy depths... They KNEW that they were going down, and i imagine that some would have tried to run for the door..while others would have remained firmly rooted to the spot in fear, their faces lit only by the pilothouse lights and instrument panels - and with every foot deeper they drscended into darkness, the pressure inside the pilothouse would have instantly risen to an unbearable, unbreathable crush - as the outside water pressure built up against the glass windows, causing the freezing lake-water to come smashing on through the pilothouse and sweeping them all, except for one, into the path of least resistance - down, down the stairs into the corridor behind the pilothouse... It's just.. Incomprehensible. It haunts me wondering which came first - the crushing inside pressure as they nose-dived down through 100 feet, 200 feet, 300 feet and to the point far beyond all human endurance.... or did the frigid waters come smashing through the pilothouse windows first ...? It haunts me, and I can only hope and pray that it was mercifully quick for all of them....
But I also give a substantial amount of headspace to the fact that the lake in that particular spot is 530 feet deep - whereas the EF was 729 feet long...so when her bow was smashing into the rocky lake bottom, at least 200 feet of her stern was still on the surface, whilst the weight of 26,000 tons of taconite (which now weighed thousands of tons more with the hold filled with water) would have driven the bow into the bottom faster than a speeding freight train, and begun tearing the superstructure apart. Added to this, the EF was still under full propulsion - driven by a 5,600kw Westinghouse powerplant tha was still spinning the shaft to its massive 19.5 foot propeller - that's a whopping 5.6 METERS! And I concur with you again here, Don - that with her bow on the bottom, and 200 feet of her stern still on the surface, that sheer weight (which was still under full propulsion) had to cause her superstructure to begin breaking up on the surface. I'm no engineer, but I believe that the massive amount of sheer torque to the still-spinning shaft under full steam would have caused the stern section to flip upside down as it ripped away from the nose-down bow section, and fully separating on it's way down and thereby dumping the 26k ton cargo in a massive pile between the two sections as the stern came to finally rest on the bottom.
Furthermore, it was no secret that EF "had issues". Cptn McSorley has been quoted as saying that it actually scared him when The Fitz "did this wriggling thing" in big seas when she would twist in a way that wasn't considered characteristic of being 'normal'. I also once found a statement that said the EF's maintenance records showed that every time she was laid up the keelsons had to be rewelded - "like as if her skin was too big for her"..which may very well explain that "wriggling thing" which Cptn. McSorley spoke of. She was repeatedly overloaded and several crewmen who'd worked on her later said that they were loathe to go below decks when she was underway. So yes, there were known 'issues' - but yet again I concur that had her summer load-lines not been enforced so late in the season, then The Mighty Fitz may very well still be plying her cargo across the Great Lakes - in which case we would not be having this discussion. But 'ifs, buts and maybes' are pointless.
Of course, these are just my opinion, based on everything that is possible to research on the subject, combined with my own vivid imagination and how I mentally visualise her demise. And as you say, how the EF came to be where she is doesn't really matter now. But I do think that the conclusions of the official investigation's were wrong. However, it is what it is and no amount of research or speculation can change the fact that 29 lives were lost under these tragic circumstances.
Their loss of the EF had a massive impact on the entire region and the industry itself, whilst the psychological effects were felt far and wide..The sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald is, and always will be cause for much deliberation and inevitable disagreement.
But on a personal and human level, each one of those 29 men all had families and friends who loved them, and who still mourn their loss. That's why it's so important to commemorate the Anniversary each year, to perpetuate their legacies, and to remember all of their devastated families in prayer.
May the 29 souls who were lost on the Edmund Fitzgerald Rest in Peace, and let those who loved them find comfort and solace in their grief. Amen.
Thankyou for a beautiful reply!
Excellent reply! However, the vents were for the 'Ballast Tanks". I feel that is where the breach occurred.
@@darrellwalton938
Hi Darrell, thank you - and thanks for the information and correction about the vents leading to the ballast tanks : ) It was explained to me that they had led to the gangways, and that they allow the sailors to traverse the length of the ship below decks, but perhaps that was incorrect? I was hoping that you might kindly explain how that works and why the ballast tanks require ventilation so that I can try to better understand it? That would be greatly appreciated - thank you! But I should say that anyway my main purpose for including this info about the vents was that so many people seem to be under the impression that the vents led to the hold, & therefore had contributed to flooding in the jog -
That is one of the best videos i have seen on the the fitzgerald and very powerful. Without a doubt mr walton is the 30th Victim of that awful tragedy. Dealing PTSD is a battle of its own. I live in northern ireland and due to the troubles having a father in the RUC i still im fighting against PTSD today. This video is a wonderful tribute to the walton family . My thoughts ans prayers are with you. RIP 30 men of the Big Fitz legend lives on .
Thanks for that Wayne. I hope you'll take the time to watch the first video I did on the Fitz...to complete the story. There is a lost Fitz crew member by the last name of Rafferty. Thanks for watching! HMM
Are we related. Rafferty here.
why do I watch these documentaries ...
my heart is broken for everyone
dear LORD
Have mercy on the crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald and their families
RIP
It is heartbreaking; but I want them to be remembered. Thanks for taking the time to watch. HMM
Thank U both Captain Don and Captain Darrel, 4 putting new "Insite" out on this most "Famous" Great Lakes shipwreck. May the lost crew and their families, never B forgotten. Amen
You're welcome Log Dog! Thanks for watching...HMM
I call him "the Harley guy" to my friends I've shared your two parts with. I'm big on history too but including the Civil War & WW II. But when the Harley guy (emblem on his T-shirt) gave you that piece of rope, I know that made your hard work all worthwhile! Another big Thank You! Well done! I subbed after your part one & hope my pals did too!
Thanks Bill; I appreciate your support...HMM
This follow up has been very bit as good as part one thanks for the work you’ve put into it
Thanks Alan..l appreciate you...HMM
Much respect for you giving a thirtieth ring.
Thanks...HMM
What a shame that money, it seems, is preventing an investigation from the structure of the boat itself. Thanks for independent investigation and the thoughtful analysis of the best facts that are available. And the courage to tell us your opinion.
You're welcome Sean; thanks for watching...HMM
I grew up in Michigan, and was always interested in this but could never find anything that told me what happened.( remember I was a punk kid back then) I find it very interesting that more and more keeps coming out about this. The never really stays hidden but it might take a long time to come out. Thanks for the time and effort you put into this, I know it takes a lot of time on the back side to get all this done.
You're welcome; thanks for taking the time to watch...HMM
Thanks Don!! Love your work. Keep em coming down here in Georgia.
Back in October 2021 I finally got to see the bell at Whitefish Point and what an eerie feeling I got. I'm going back again this October 2022 I'm going back there. I have to agree with Capt. Cooper, she was to close to six fathom shole and struck bottom and was sinking from there. Thank you for sharing this amazing video.
Thanks Toby. I'm planning a trip to Whitefish Point this summer...if gas isn't $29.99 a gallon by then. Thanks for your support...HMM
I hate the fact the U.S. and Canadian Coast Guard had no response at 3pm to check on Hull damage of Edmund Fitzgerald near Caribou Island but yet asked Bernie Cooper to take the Arthur Anderson back out in to those horrible conditions to check for survivors…30✝
Yeah...sounds like the USCG was not prepared, yet had no issues with asking someone else to risk her ship and crew. Thanks for watching...HMM
What a great video. Thank you! They need to make a movie about this!
Major league motion picture! Thanks Jeff...HMM
You have produced a very well done video! Thank you. Thanks to Captain D. Walton for sharing his detailed insights on the Fitz tragedy. And to all of the Edmund Fitzgerald seaman who perished that fateful day: R. I. P.
Thanks...and especially for remembering the Mighty Fitz and her crew. HMM
Heartbreaking what happened to these men and their families. Great video!
I've been to Whitefish Point. It is beautiful! Bittersweet!
I haven't been to Whitefish Point yet, but I absolutely have to go soon. Thanks for your kind words, Bret...so appreciated. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan
Thank you for bringing history alive and honoring the fallen that were husbands, fathers, brothers uncles and more. There's a neat great lakes museum at Whitefish Point. I've subscribed!
@@bretaschleman8289 Thanks again, Bret...so grateful for your support and subscription! HMM
I could listen to this man tell the same story over and over again. Great content HMM
Thanks John...so appreciated. HMM
Excellent Work!! You have a great persona for these most interesting videos.. Thanks.
Thanks Loren...super nice compliment. #Grateful...HMM
Sailed on the SS RESERVE as my first ship for Columbia. 1979 Nice seeing her again.
Awesome. Didn't the Reserve become the American Valor? Reason I'm asking is because the Valor is tied up right here in Toledo...thanks. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan The American Valor was originally the ARMCO, ARMCO and RESERVE were sister ships.
Got it...thanks.@@Old_Sailor85
A thanks to Capt Walton for sharing his knowledge and views. Those of us who have never been there can argue until the day is done, but those who have been there have that intuition, the experience in time and place, to really feel the moment. Most of them know, in their heart like his father did, what the truth may be, because they truly understand it. The Fitz was built to be a legend, and in that she succeeded beyond what anyone ever believed it could be. God bless the 29 aboard and those left behind.
Thanks again Chris. No doubt, Captain Walton really made the video...so interesting, insightful and colorful. Thanks for watching...HMM
I wish they made a movie of the Edmund Fitzgerald with a story line with the Anderson.
That would be awesome. And we could actually use the Anderson for the movie, since she's still afloat. Thanks for sharing that...HMM
I went to grade school with a William (Billy Spengler) in my hometown of Toledo, Ohio, and have often wondered over all these years if the W. Spengler that died on the EF could have been his grandfather. There seems to be little to no information on the surviving family members.
Good chance they're related...and you're right, it's hard to find info on surviving family members; but I keep trying! I do know where the house is that Spengler lived in here in Toledo during the time of the tragedy. Toledo is also my hometown! Thanks for watching...HMM
I don’t know anything about sailing, but I really enjoy these videos. I love listening to Captain Darrell. I love the pictures.
Thanks Danni...so appreciated. More on the way! HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan I’m looking forward to it! ❤️
This was truly the best video I ever saw... Explaining this story that lives in a song we all Kno.. The truth is this story lives in the ppl who's family was lost that cold Winters night in a horrific gale.. She sunk to her watery grave taking many good men with her... I honor each one an there families as well!! I honor you for all you do to never forget... Thank you!! DK✌🏼💗😊🤙🏼
You're welcome Donna. Thanks for watching...and thanks for remembering the Mighty Fitz and her crew. HMM
I highly recommend reading the NTSB report on the Edmund Fitzgerald. Read it twice. Then watch the the DVD "The Fitzgerald Tragedy Looking Back and Beyond". Mr. Holden in the video gives the best explanation of what probably happened to the Fitz. I have been intrigued by this event for years. After reviewing the report and DVD along with numerous other videos and accounts I was able to conclude my curiosity as to what happened within reason. I have tons of respect for the men who sail, or have sailed, these great lakes in these incredible ships. In this particular event, a terrible tragedy.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts...greatly appreciated...HMM
ntsb a racket of lies many times just ask those people on pam am flightin 1996 shot down by errant navy missile covered up completely by fbi hallstrom and ntsb
Great video, sir. Thank you. Absolutely that gentleman is the 30th person lost.
Sadly, I imagine many people who lived long after the sinking were "lost." Lives irreparably changed due to the tragic loss of a loved one. These events affect so many.
I didn't know the Fitzgerald had so many structural issues. This and the Coast Guards allowance of running summer loads in November frustrates me.
Great history. Please keep producing!
Good point on all the relatives and the lifelong pain they have endured. Thanks for your support...and thanks for watching. HMM
Great video. Thanks for sharing. What an awesome fella to share that piece of history with you.
Thanks...greatly appreciated. Capt. Darrell really is awesome. Thanks for watching...HMM
Just subscribed really liked the story, R. I. P to all on the fitzgerald.
Thanks for your subscription Barbara...and thanks for watching! HMM
We love your work.....we love Captain Walton....You are the real goods! finnster
Thanks! I really appreciate you! Happy New Year from the History Mystery Man!
This is ABSOLUTELY fascinating. I am proud to subscribe. Thank you for caring enough to keep the memory of the 29+1 souls alive from the Big Fitz.
Thanks! I appreciate your subscription...and thanks for taking the time to watch...HMM
I used to work at Youngstown steel, at the Indiana harbor works. Then it was changed to Jones and Laughlin steel. When I first got hired in I worked in the labor gang. We used to have to go on those big ships, and clean out the hull's. If you've never been in one they're huge. We would lower bulldozers down into them with the sky cranes. To push the iron taconite in the piles. Then one day I went to work and everybody was standing on the edge of the dock watching a ship. As it turned out the name of the ship was the Mesabi Miner my dad was a superintendent in the steel mill. He says that was the biggest ship on the lakes. If you never seen one up close you're missing something. They are amazingly huge. When I was working on one of the taconite ships. They asked me if I wanted a tour. Of course I said yes. They took me down below, and you can hear the noise inside the ship. It scared me it sound like it was going to break in half, the hair on the back your neck will stand up when you go down there. It was just a ship releasing stress as they unloaded it. I miss those days. Then my dad told me about the song of the Edmunds Fitzgerald. And I listen to it several times. I always thought about the Edmonds Fitzgerald. While I was cleaning those ships.
That's a cool story; thanks for sharing it here. I can relate as to how creepy those ships can be when they creak and grown while they move...pretty scary. Thanks for remembering the Mighty Fitz and her crew. HMM
I work at the the Toledo coal dock! I’ve worked here for 20+years! Still amazes me the size of these ships, especially the 1000 footers! It’s a completely different world on them ships
@@keebz75 Awesome! You have a front row seat to the industry...so cool. Thanks for watching...HMM
Excellent presentation. I had a nephew that worked on the Lakers at that time. He knew the Fitzgerald and was shocked at her disappearance.
Thank you...I appreciate that. The story of the Mighty Fitz is captivating...HMM
Thanks for helping to keep the story of the Fitzgerald alive. The lives of those brave men taken on that day shall not be forgotten.
WORD's mean things! I don't get the "Brave" moniker hung on ordinary people just doing their job! BRAVE is, knowingly risking one's life or profession to save lives! Like firemen who rush into burning buildings, or [non groupthink] doctors who prescribe lifesaving ivermectin or HCQ & don't warship at the altar of Big Fraudulent, [leading cause of death]/ Pharma! i.e. risking their license to practice! But if you can call boys girls, baby killing a right, deviant sex, a life style! It's your problem! John 15-13 tell us, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." !!! I.e. Not kill 70 million babies and call it a [cough] "Right."
@@stevemitz4740 so you are implying there is no risk involved working on an ore boat in the Great Lakes in all types of weather. Well ok then.
being a mariner there's no doubt she bounced off the bottom at caribou shoal, especially with the wind direction all that water is being driven forward into the vessel putting her nose down. The two waves that cooper reported imo definately picep the stern up and submarined the fitz causing her to accordion in on herself, terrible tragedy , rip to all
Interesting perspective, Craig; thanks for sharing it here...and thanks for watching! HMM
I listen to the song daily for several months,watching different doc . Thank you for this. Today is my dad's birthday and he fought ww2 on Navy Merchant ships
Thanks for watching...and thanks to your dad for his service in WWII. Is your father sill alive? Thanks...HMM
I accidentally bumped the screen on my phone and somehow got this video. Nice! Subscribed. 👍
So grateful you bumped your screen...bump on over anytime. Thanks for your subscription! HMM
Thanks for more of the story!
You're welcome...thanks! HMM
i was 20 yrs old i just purchase my first 1975 continental mark iv,, i heard on the news about the edmund ,, i was sadden to hear that god bless all of them
It's a memory that stays with you forever. Thanks for remembering the Mighty Fitz and her crew. HMM
5:40 The only other scenario I could conceive is if the bridge was completely smashed by a particularly heavy sea that also broke the ship in two, thus no ability to send any kind of signal. It is still very hard to explain that heavy sea downforce damage to the front of the bridge, unless the bow half ended up being pushed down nose first. It's possible she broke in half and quickly went down, but I still think a massive nose dive did it.
Excellent 👍
I saw the Arthur B. Anderson this past summer going through the soo locks.
I love the Anderson! Thanks for watching...HMM
I’m from/reside in Kentucky and have always been interested in the Edmund Fitzgerald ever since I saw how my Dad reacted when a documentary about it came on television when I was a kid. He wasn’t a big tv watcher, but when he did it was either a documentary on an event or some sitcom like Mash or Barney Miller. I say all that to say I know zero about sailing but have read about it in history books and I could listen to this man talk about it all night. It’s easy to see he’s been there, done that, got the t-shirt, so to speak. It’s like listening to certain veterans, you can just tell when it’s real.
Now here is some seriously interesting perspective. I'm with you...I could listen to Capt. Darrell all day and night. Because like you say, it's real. Thanks again! HMM
I've learned more from you on the Edmund Fitzgerald wreck than I have from all others that I've watched and I pay attention I had no idea about the bulkheads thanks for the info
You're welcome! Thanks for watching...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan I was 14 when she went down and I wound up working with a guy by the name of Jerry who was a cook on the big fits he was sick and called off the night of the tragedy his friend replaced him, you understand why I don't want to use their full names.
@@t.j.s8477 Do you have any idea if this person is still alive? Thanks...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan I'm sure he is but the shop has closed up years ago and I really would not know how to get in contact with him, I'll try to make a few calls...
I've looked at pics from the dives and always wondered why the door was open. My theory - and hear me out- was the captain knew the ship was going down and had the crew out on the deck trying to get the lifeboats off and the helmsman was still steering the ship through the waves to keep them from knocking the crew overboard when a rouge wave hit her from the side and knocked the door in and crashed in the front window then sucked the helmsman out. I think it broke over the wheelhouse. That's why the awning is bent down.They were on deck trying to get the lifeboats off and a wave came over and took them all into the water. At that temp nobody could have survived. McSorley knew the ship was getting lower in the water and she wouldn't make it to Whitefish Bay. So he started to abandon ship. Maybe he couldn't get a distress signal off or couldn't call the Anderson because he knew he had but a few minutes to get the lifeboats off before she went down.
Super interesting perspective, and I appreciate you sharing it here. I can definitely see the sense in what you're saying. One thing I would contest would be that if the crew (out on deck trying to release lifeboats) was washed overboard, we would have found some of them floating...because they most certainly would have been wearing lifejackets. No men were ever found, except one. The fact that only one crewman was ever found (lying on the lake floor next to the Fitz) tells me that the rest of the crew are still on the ship. Thanks for watching! HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan Granted. But remember it was at the end of the season and not many ships were on the lakes after that. And maybe they weren't wearing life jackets because there was no time to put them on? And all were on the stern getting the lifeboats off when a big wave hit? A body only floats for so long until it disappears under the waves. The fact it was November and many ships were either already in port or heading to port, less ships to spot the bodies. Plus with the weather as it was nobody would have seen them anyway even if they came up on them floating. It's just a theory based on what I have seen and heard. Divers say they have looked all through the ship and no bodies were found anywhere in the ship or bridge. So unless they all ran inside the stern then that's really the only logical explanation I can come up with. Thank you for replying.
@@HistoryMysteryMan The one body found outside the wreck on the bottom had an old style kapok life jacket on. As proven during WWII Kapok will absorb water if very dry. Also with heavy waves, it will drive the air out of the lungs like crashing into a wall, so, bodies will loose that boyancy(sp). If a free floating body is on the bottom next to the ship, could other bodies, also be on the bottom else where if they had been on deck? I think so. Also, were life lines used on ships like the 'Fitz so deck work was done tethered? As to the wreck being a restricted zone to diving, why and who says so. The answers to those questions will say a lot about the restriction.And B.S. about desecrating graves by taking trophies is no answer. Outlaw taking anything. We have better tech now that could find explanations. Everything will never be known or understood because we lost all the human witnesses, but we owe THEM and their bravery an explanation.
@@348Tobico The Canadian government has restricted diving on the Fitz. Capt. McSorley was overheard in a radio transmission to say, "Don't let nobody out on deck." I'm not sure on the life preserver stuff...don't know enough about it. Thanks...HMM
I believe some of the damage happened after went below the waves and before it reached bottom. There is a lot of water pressure as a ship sinks. 😃
I lived in Milwaukee at this time. I remember hearing this on the news. I remember how quiet it was in the house. I remember the sadness we all felt. And we didn't even know them. Still to this day it still saddens me when I think of them.
I can relate. Thanks for remembering the Mighty Fitz and her crew. HMM
Gordon's song hasta be one of the greatest song-trbutes ever.
I could not agree more. One of the most beautiful and most powerful ballads I'll ever hear...and it always stops me in my tracks when I hear it. Thanks for watching...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan It's a good thing it came out when it did. In another few years a story song like that would never have had airplay.
@@karenryder6317 Great point. Radio stations wouldn't touch it today...what a shame. Thanks...HMM
Wow. That rope! Amazing.
I know, right? When I look at it, knowing it was there...wow! HMM
Fascinating!!
Thanks...so appreciated. HMM
I believe the waves were so high and she went over the shoals and the waves pushed her up and dropped her on the bottom. Cracked her in half and as she was moving off the shoals and she went down. So sad.
Interesting. Thanks for your thoughts, John. HMM
Thank you so much for your video. I love these great big ships and I DIDN'T know a lot of information on the Edmund Fitzgerald. May all her crew be blessed and R.I.P.
You're welcome, and thanks for remembering the Mighty Fitz and her crew...HMM
In the 50s and 60s I grew up in NW Ohio. The Best of Times was going perch fishing as a 10-12 year old with my grandparents off Anchor Point (near Toledo) about five or six miles into Lake Erie near the City of Toledo Water Inlet. From time to time we'd see the Big Fitz go by.... Remember being impressed by its enormity. It seemed to take forever to go by and disappear. And remember as a 25 year old feeling the shock of its disappearance and loss.
We had our boat in Anchor Point. I lived about 1/2 mile from there.
@@darrellwalton938 There used to be, every summer, a few tomato stands along the road that intersected with the really long road back to Anchor Point. Also a few places where they would filet fish. After a good day of fishing we would stop, sort out the largest perch, have those fileted, buy a few tomatoes and have a great, great dinner that night. Pleasant memories of +50 years past. No tomatoes like NW Ohio tomatoes!
Thanks for watching...hoping Darrell reads your message! HMM
Excellent work.
Thanks! HMM
Gobsmacked 🤔 Thank you and dually noted your dedication is unequaled for me 🤝🏻
Thanks kindly...so appreciated. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan ⚓ 🚢
@@HistoryMysteryMan You remind me of someone.
Good morning.
@@HistoryMysteryMan Hi again🙂 Planes Trains & Automobiles almost. Good movie too. Motorcycles?
Fantastic video. Outstanding. Thanks
Thanks again, Jim...always appreciated. HMM
Wow! This story gave me nightmares! I have to flush this from my mind!😮
Well get ready...new videos on the Fitz on the way. Thanks Elder! HMM
"Nightmares" and "Fear of the Lord" can be a Life saver, IF used properly! (If you catch my drift)
Appreciate your vids on this fascinating and sobering story.
Thanks...greatly appreciated. HMM
Very nice video. What is that amazing music? I love it. Thanks!
Thanks...greatly appreciated. Music is just generic stuff off the internet. HMM
Nice interview. Fascinating person.
Thanks! I agree! HMM
The great lakes are brutal. No swells, all chop in bad weather. Beats the bottom of the boats like dropping from 10 feet in the air every 20sec.
Well said. Great Lakes are unforgiving...and they don't care who they gobble up. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan I grew up on ocean (NY) and have seen it rough, but what I have read about Great Lakes CREEPS me out.
@@allencollins6031 Thanks for sharing, Allen. HMM
Wow. November 9th is my birthday and I can remember hearing the news on television and radio about the sinking. Extremely sad event for the victims and their families. I believe God was there to guide them home and may God be there to comfort all of the families. Great Interview and presentation/pictures and informative. Well done.
Thanks Richard...so appreciated. And thanks for taking the time to watch! HMM
It's so sad, no one knows for sure what someones breaking point will be until they've reached it (the straw that broke the camels back). RIP Wade William Walton🕊
So true on our breaking points; thanks for your feedback. HMM
Very much appreciated and enjoyed Don , thank you for your efforts , on both of these historical videos ! Sure would be nice if it could be researched , on the bottom to find out for sure what happened ! I still to this day get a tear in my eyes when I hear the EF song , always has had a special meaning !
Yeah...that song is sooo powerful. Thanks for your kind words, Dave...so appreciated. HMM
may all beings be free of suffering.
Hello from Michigans Upper Peninsula , keep’em coming
Man I so want to visit the UP, Whitefish Bay...the whole thing...thanks. HMM
Just because those are lakes, does NOT mean that their power should be underestimated. Those ships, and the sailors who crew them, are another breed of special.
Also,
1.) You should be paid for bringing these stories to life for us newer generations.
And 2.) What's the Fitzgerald's freeboard? (Trying to draw a laker, just curious on her freeboard.)
Thanks...I appreciate you. I'll see what I can find out on the freeboard...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan
Any luck on her freeboard?
@@_R-R Unfortunately, no. I"ve this one aside for now to focus on future videos...my honest answer here.
Outstanding video!
Thanks Brad...so appreciated. HMM
Fred Shanon did a very intense dive to the wreckage ..he's a retire police officer that did accident investigations..in his words the boat infact broke apart on top of the water before it went under ...the boat had mechanical issues that had not been addressed before departure..the captain was known as , pushing the limits with mother nature ..the boat was fueled with minimum fuel to add more payload...5 x more than was designed to carry... many things added up to the ships distruction ...to this day, the owners of the Ship have never officially acknowledged to the relatives that the boat has sunk or been lost . Fred has recently past away but if you google him , you'll be impressed with his findings..
Well, it's certainly not 'infact' it broke apart on the surface because nobody knows for sure. I lean toward Captain Cooper's assessment; he's been there and done that, and was in the same sea.
The Coast Guard , US government and Canada have all accepted his findings ..your just story telling to everyone with what people have guessed at for over 50 years .. guessing is over ..thanks and have a wonderful night ...
@@stevepolenpole6127 We will NEVER know exactly what happened...period. And just because the USCG, the US Government and Canada say so doesn't make it so. The only definitive proof of what happened would be a video recording of the sinking. Let me know when the "government" produces such evidence.
@@deanladue5367 Your thoughts make a lot of sense to me; thanks for sharing them here. HMM
With all due respect Steve, the last time a boat snapped in half on the surface, they found the stern miles *ahead* of the bow, as it was still under independent propulsion at the time of the accident...
Too much points to the dive theory.
My cousin's husband was scheduled to be on that run, luckily he got sick on did not go.
Wow...another amazing story. Thanks for sharing it here. HMM
Great job with this. I have over two decades working on the water. Thanks for the video. I grew up in Dayton
Thanks! I've spent my share of time in Dayton...love the Wright Brothers! Where did you work when you worked on the water? Thanks for watching...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan Clearwater Florida
@@HistoryMysteryMan In my early teens I lived about 10 min from Wright bros museum. Kettering/ oakwood area
@@grouperkng1 Love it there...one of the world's biggest Wright Bros fans...thanks! HMM
I had a friend (now deceased) whose grandfather was on the EF. He was Robert Rafferty.
Interesting. I believe Rafferty lived in Toledo? Thanks for watching...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan yes, Toledo. His daughter, Pam, is in Kansas.
the Ships Steward
Fascinating stuff.
Thanks Life! HMM
Saw the Arthur M Anderson about 6 weeks ago unloading coal on the Fox River in Green Bay!
Awesome! Love that boat! Thanks again, Dave...HMM
From how decomposed the photographed body is, Frederick Stonehouse proposed that the body probably wasn't from the Fitzgerald. At the time of the photo, the body had spent 19 years on the bottom, yet most of the lifejacket and clothing material had disintegrated. Yards away, blankets and curtains are hardly damaged. Plus, the body is near the bow, when it should have been blown back. "Whitey", in the Kamloops is in better condition, yet spent 50 years longer on the bottom, in shallower water. I tend to agree.
Interesting perspective; thanks for sharing your views here. I hear you on the body free-floating near the bow of the Fitz. If it's not one of the Fitz's crew members, it sure would be an odd coincidence that the body made its way right next to the Fitz. Thanks again...HMM
Really enjoyed this....great job!
Thanks Leroy...more videos on the Fitz on the way. HMM
A nosedive by the bow sounds like the only way this could have happened. Another documentary I watched spoke about how taconite ore is dangerously absorbent to water, absorbing 8 to 9 times its weight in water volume. It makes no sense that any Great Lakes mariners or captain that routinely transported taconite ore during that time of year, which was notorious for ship-sinking storms, would risk leaving hatches open upon departure- especially because Capts. McSorley and Cooper already knew they were headed into heavy storms at the time they left. There's a reason "batten down the hatches" is an expression.
I don't discount the 'running aground' theory entirely, but I'm skeptical, especially since in Cooper's sworn testimony he said that the Fitz had cleared the shoals. Unless the ship's hull was in really bad condition and there was water leakage more rapid than what was initially described, I don't see how that could have been the only cause.
I don't know how the Three Sisters ended up being discounted so quickly in some theories. It wouldn't take flooding the hatches for a rogue wave, especially a series of them, to sink a ship. It's also the only thing that explains why all 29 sailors were trapped on the ship and they never issued a distress call. Nothing else can take a ship down that quickly.
The only alternative is that water got into the cargo hold another way, the taconite increased in volume rapidly as it all shifted forward or to one side, and the Fitz didn't stand a chance. If she caught one or more rogue waves from the front, that would have been enough to shift all the iron to the bow by itself. It's notable, however, that divers to the wreck report that two of the hatches were buckled inward, implying a huge downward force onto them at some point, and resultant leakage. Mike TenEyk said in an interview that it wouldn't take rogue-sized waves to cause that buckling or leakage, just the 30-ft waves constantly battering the ship may have been enough.
It may be my cynicism about corporate oligarchy and the lengths they will go to for profit, but I've privately wondered if the Fitz wasn't deployed in rough conditions, with dangerous cargo, after years of possibly poor maintenance (according to some accounts), with the hope for a big insurance payout on a ship whose bankers and corporate backers knew was likely to sink. It wouldn't be the first time something like this was done. If the ship was indeed getting older and in need of more moneyed repairs, I think it's highly plausible.
Sadly, I also think it's plausible that McSorley's "We're holding our own" might have been due to knowing they were utterly screwed and didn't want Cooper to take the risk of the Anderson and its crew coming back for them when he knew there was nothing anyone could do to save the Fitz.
As an aside, it drives me crazy that everyone in that region insists on pronouncing Sault Sainte Marie wrong. It's not hard to say "Saul," and it is a French name, after all.
The shoals were found later to run another mile past what the outdated chart (1919) showed.
Super interesting commentary; thanks for sharing it here. A lot to think about here, and your thoughts have me wondering more. Thanks for watching...HMM
Nice job Don! LOVE the video! I’m very glad I found your channel. Is this what you’re doing now? Been a long time from our ARCA days!
Yes sir...this is what I'm doing now...this and taking care of my mom full-time. Good to hear from you again, Thomas. #5
(Inspired by "The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot)
'Neath the wind and waves
Are many mariners' graves
Where lost souls forever are buried
On board that great ship
Till the sea loosed each man's grip
Not one of them even seemed worried
But November's tempest
That great vessel did test
None of its crew were survivors
By waves men were tossed
And all hands on deck lost
Their graves found by deep sea divers
Not many prevail
'gainst a furious gale
That keeps all the sailors a fearing
Save for a sturdy cape
There could be no escape
From sailors and ships disappearing
She listed to port
And then she came up short
As the lake sought right then to claim her
The crew fought all night
To set the ship right
From the unwelcome waters to drain her
But no matter how they fought
Their efforts were for naught
As there could be only one winner
The bow soon was full
Drawn down by gravity's pull
That spared neither saint nor sinner
It was already too late
When The Anderson's first mate
Phoned the captain of the vessel now sinking
"We're holding our own"
But his fate was unknown
As his ship the sea water was drinking
Brave men met their doom
With their great ship now entombed
On the cruel lake's rocky bottom
Sailors nine and one score
Suddenly were no more
For the witch of November had got 'em
I'm not sure if they prayed
Or what price they would have paid
To see another day dawning
But for them the bell did toll
As they sank in the shoal
While the angry sea was still yawning
It's been forty-six years
And an ocean of tears
Since that stormy night in November
To those brave men who are gone
We sing this mournful song
But in our hearts we shall always remember
© 2017 - 2021
Wow! Beautiful words. Who wrote this! Thanks for sharing it here! HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan Thank you very much. I myself wrote this take on Gordon Lightfoot's "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald." Thank you for presenting this very informative video.
@@serdip You're welcome; thanks for watching...HMM
Fascinating…thank you.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching...HMM
I always wondered why no one ever dove the six fathom shoal to look for evidence of grounding. It would seem to me that if the ship were to have dragged its hull across the rocks that there would be evidence of that such as scrapped rocks or something?
I believe divers have now since dived on that shoal. Thanks David...HMM
Maybe because it was winter and the weather not conducive to boating much less diving. By the next spring, the water would have moved lots of whatever was on the bottom of a shoal area.
@@scottwhitcher265 Interesting thoughts Scott; thanks for sharing them here...HMM
I remember when I was a kid I went to the museum in a boat called the valley camp. Ill always remember they had a lifeboat from the Fitz and I was so mangled it was crazy. It was made of some thick steel and the frontt was crushed.
Those memories stay with you always. Once the story of the Fitz grabs hold, it never goes away. Thanks for watching...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan if you grow up around the lakes the Fitz is kinda apart of your life even many years after it happened.
@@nb7466 Absolutely. Thanks...HMM
May they all rest in peace God bless them all🙏
Holy wow
You know with the twisting and turning and the water coming over the bow he describes, maybe the ship broke apart like a twig from a hit to the aft, as between the hits, the water and the straight and the bend, it split and capsized the stern from an impact and flipped, while the bow with its the lack of weight and the engines, absorbed the hit and just went in front first and kept level
as we dont know how the thing was balanced between everything that was going on, and if the water got in and held to the opposite side by the impacts, if that got enough rotation going, it could cause a counter twist to tear the ship apart, as the back would be sitting the lowest between the cargo, the weight and the engines, while the front would be relatively level
and while the other captain lost sight of it for three minutes, if the ship was giving way and splitting even when he saw it, it wouldnt have taken that long to break apart, and if the thing bottomed out and was sinking he would have radio'd for help and looked to ditch, not kept going to where the ship is now
as no captain besides the guy helming the costa concordia would be that wreckless
Interesting thoughts; thanks for sharing them here. Your ideas are certainly worth considering. Thanks for taking the time to watch. HMM
Very well done ! I Absolutely love Maritime History . I subscribed and look forward to seeing more of your work . Be well sir , and how bout those Mudhens....
I grew up just south of Jackson and have been wanting to visit Toledo. I'm west of kalamazoo now. It's nice...
Thanks Donald. Mudhens rock! I did a video on the old Jackson Motor Speedway...searched it out and found it HMM
Wow. I never went there but when I was in grade school I had a babysitter whose husband raced there. Downey was their name.
Early or mid sixty's
@@donaldlyons537 Thanks for that info, Donald! HMM
I'll have to look at your video on the Jackson Motor Speedway...
@9:19. I agree the CG should not have lowered the seasonal load standards. But I'll even go back further. The companies should be called out for lobbying change. I can bet the CG didn't get up one morning and say "Hey, let's allow unsafe adjustments" out of the blue. I guess putting much trust into the captains of these vessels to keep their ship and crew safe has a much bigger picture, but if at any time it was deemed unsafe, the capt could have or should have refused to sail and his company should have enough faith in the skipper to wait it out. Just my opinion.
Interesting thoughts...thanks for sharing them here. HMM
Great but sad video.
So sad...thanks for thinking about the Mighty Fitz and her crew. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan ... I think about that ship every now and then and share the story with people and surprisingly a lot of people do not even know about it. Then I tell them hang on and listen to this song, it's a true story about the ship. Most people are just amazed after hearing the song.
@@Bikerguy5845 Yeah that song really grabs ahold...one of the most powerful ballads ever written. Thanks for sharing the story of the Mighty Fitz and her crew with your people...HMM