disagree.. Gurney returning and knowing where to find weaponry was just part of the prophecy that Paul would be the messiah. Gurneu didn't trigger anything... it was simply steps in the prophecy
@@dzeniba5357 *Spoilers for future dune books* Taking the golden path into account he doesn’t even really do that either, he didn’t have the willpower to fully commit (becoming an immortal worm lol). But there’s not really a “prophesy” in the sense that there’s some supernatural or theistic force propelling Paul’s destiny like the Fremen believe. It’s more scientific than it is religious. Paul was bred to fulfill a role that the Bene Gesserit had been preparing, they even had other prospects that they could have used to fulfill that role in Paul’s place. Paul is able to see the future and into his genetic memory because of his DNA, which was carefully cultivated over thousands of years, not because of magical powers. Referring to the comment I was originally responding to, Paul at this point in the movie is trying to avoid his visions and has yet to take the Water of Life so his visions are not as clear (he refers to them as fragments). He’s surprised that Gurney is still alive, so I wouldn’t say he was “part of the prophesy” even if such a thing we’re real (which it isn’t) and his connection to House Atreides undoubtedly fuels his more colonial tendencies.
Nah, that's just the only expression Zandaya's capable of. Girls not good at acting and I really wish they got someone else to play Chani. By far the weakest thing in these movies.
@samcooper2474 she's incredible. But I get it. She did something you dont like and you got all butt hurt and you hate her. Now go get a life maga lover
Chani's character in the book was very different, but Denis used her as a foil to show the audience that Paul was a false Messiah with his own agenda. The Fremen were his tool to be wielded for that agenda. It was refreshing to see someone, anyone, challenge him.
This plot point makes no sense because given Denis's story the fremen had no choice. Spice is the most valuable substance in the universe, a substance that the rest of the universe would fight a never-ending war of attrition to try and get Arrakis back under control. The fremen were never safe to just reclaim their planet and be to themselves, Stilgar knew this from the start. They had to bring the inverse down to respect them as a peoples, and even then they would still constantly be in danger.
Honestly doesn’t make sense. Liet Kynes was the propagator of the Lisan al Gaib myth, and Chani was one of Paul’s most fervent supporters because Chani is Liet’s daughter. When Frank Herbert wrote the book, he intended it to be a trilogy, and the consequences shown in Messiah was the foil to Paul’s arc. He didn’t use Paul’s Jihad to remind the readers to doubt him all the time, but he used it to slap them across the face and shows the real consequences of ideological fervor
The thing that I found pretty messed up is the fact that Paul had pretty much no actual concern about her anger at him because he knew she’d eventually come around one day due to his visions. It’s pretty messed up to do something you know will hurt someone you love because “She’ll get over it. I’ve seen it.” It’s another point showing just how separated he is from everyone else. To him the pain and suffering he inflicts doesn’t matter as much to him because he can see the outcome of his choices. So it’s easier for him to cope with his atrocities because he’s the one person alive who can say “it’s all for the greater good” even though a “greater good” doesn’t make all the death and suffering okay.
@@AesirUnlimited Cinematically it was pretty cool. I liked the sandworms in the imax. But it really wrecked Frank Herbert's work just as badly as the previous iterations. You make a good point about the movie, just know that what you said is irrelevant to the book. Chani and the Fremen are totally different and thus so is Paul's relationship with Chani and the Fremen. Paul was used and controlled by the Fremen and Chani more than he controlled them. And Chani was training to become a reverend mother herself. She not only saw and understood Paul's vision, she actively co-created the Jihad with him.
@@mregskwach6037 Yeah but a movie doesn’t need to be like the book to be good. Look at the lord of the rings movies. They left out Gil-Galad fighting Sauron with Elendil, Glorfindel was replaced by Arwen, Tom Bombadil wasn’t there, Gandalf didn’t spend decades figuring out if Frodo actually had the one ring, Narsil wasn’t reforged before the fellowship left Rivendell, Merry and Pippin joined the quest willingly instead of by accident, The great eagles saved Gandalf from Orthanc, etc. The list could’ve kept going too, but the point is that people love those movies despite them changing a ton from the book, enough to piss off Tolkien if he lived to see them. But people don’t care because the LOTR movies are really good despite being different from the source material. The new Dune movies are in the same boat.
i dont think paul “died” but i think him drinking the water solidified that he was gonna play the role.. that his fathers revenge was more important than the fremen..
No one is saying he betrayed her, but she feels betrayed. They changed a role in this movie. In the book she stayed loyal to paul. In the movie however she has been rewritten to be an antithesis to paul's journey to become the messiah. She's an agnostic while paul walks the path of religion and power.
@@datruthslayaaa He absolutely died. His singular consciousness has been swallowed up by many others. The person he was died, because he has been changed completely.
After the slap scenes with Chani, has a lingering pissed off and lingering pissed-off look. Finally, she has the heartbroken scene, where I wished they had ended it. Instead, she calls an Uber SandWorm to pick her up
@@twittertwicewe will see if know what he is doing lol. So far I see either work of extremely talented egoistic guy who thought that he will make his own Dune or guy who doesn't understand what he is doing lol. So far he ruined not only Jessica who is at movie fanatic while at books she is one who was questioning Paul but also Chani and Paul arc. Book Chani is ground cable for Paul to humanity, without her he even forgets that he is at present, he is losing himself in his visions. Spoiler, Paul couldn't fulfill Golden Path cause Chani death, so we have a great Sandstorm size plot hole here. I didn't even mention that while at books Alia was 7 when battle for Arrakin started in movie she is not born yet. Denis made a masterpiece in many sense but his movie ended up having 0 depth which Herbert Dune had. I would be fine if he didn't not call himself Dune fan. You can't completely change whole characters and Paul's arc, this is changing core of books. As fan I see this movie as a spit on grave of Herbert and his work, visually movie as a masterpiece. Music, deserts, atmosphere guy made amazing
@@emilkhusainov8089I don’t think it’s fair to call this as a “spit” on someone’s work just because of a few changes. The main concept still seems to be here - Chani is Paul’s mental tether, so losing her plunges him into the darkness. It’s getting annoying with gatekeeping nerds who always complain about every adaptation to be 100% identical to the source material. It’s not some sacred text.
@@LilacSreya i would be okay if there would be FEW changes. Changing characters completely which also will eventually change whole plot are HUGE changes. Lol they is huge difference between losing someone because she died or when she just left, don't you think? You can't 100% stick to source, but as minimum all characters should be there and their personalities should be same as in books. Which is what is called to make movie BASED on book, not on your own pure imagination.
Chani: YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! IT WAS SAID THAT YOU WOULD FREE US FROM THE EMPIRE, NOT BECOME IT! BRING THE FREMEN TO PARADISE, NOT LEAD US TOWARDS GENOCIDE!!!
I think it’s hilarious they basically used 80% of Chani’s screen time to glower at Paul to make sure the audience recognizes what Paul is doing is bad… and it’s even more hilarious that it actually was a pretty effective choice.
I think this is a really poor choice. Obviously Paul is doing bad things, but the person were supposed to empathise with spends half the movie sulking and is just really uncompelling.
It doesn’t make sense at all to me. Even movie chani who doesn’t believe in the prophecy should be hyped about basically everything he’s doing. Who cares if it’s a real prophecy if everything he does works in favor of the fremen.
@@wingthomaux Chani is upset because she doesn’t want the Fremen to be people dependent on prophecy and religious fervor to better their lives. She rightly sees that idol worship and the crusade will make the Fremen people slaves to their religious idealism, and she’d rather see them free to self determine.
Chani's last line in Part One: "This is only the beginning..." Chani's last line in Part Two: "This isn't over yet." Chani's last line in Messiah, presumably: "Okay, it's over."
To me this is the best and worst part of the movie. The actors did such an incredible job and the score was perfect. I really felt how heartbroken Chani was in that moment, and Paul’s attempt at preemptive reassurance was expertly delivered and full of emotion. Just fantastic.
Paul knew that if Chani was with him she would be targeted and if she was pregnant his children they would be targeted. He made a wise decision bc he knew she would comeback to him. Remember his precognitive powers lets him see the past-present and future at the same time.
I think a lot of people are forgetting the change in Chani is likely because when the actual Dune books first came out, everybody missed the whole point in that Paul is not a hero. People thought he was. The reasoning behind these Chani choices accomplished multiple things. It gives Chani more agency in the narrative, makes it clear this isn’t a white savior movie and, related to that, makes it blindingly obvious Paul is not the good guy here. Like it really needs to drive that last point home for the messages to be impactful (and people do not analyze media like they used to) and this choice does multiple things at the same time. Hence, Chani movie changes.
It was dumb and unnecessary. Both movies were already punching us in the face with Paul's many nightmare visions of the future, Paul's dialogue with others where he directly states that gaining control is a bad thing and his mother's scheming in the background. Yes....we get it. Paul was not a hero. It was made VERY CLEAR that Paul taking over was bad and it would lead to horror and death. Having Chani constantly whine and cry and stating the obvious on top of all this just got annoying and was redundant. It ruined their chemistry as well.
in the books, paul would start the biggest cleansing of the universe! His fanatic Fremen would invade and conquer 1000 worlds! He would become death incarnate and dispised by his own people!
I’m surprised by all the criticism here towards Zendaya. I just saw the film for the second time, and I think she’s one heck of an actress. As for the ‘it won’t make sense when Chani gets back together with Paul’ thing, I haven’t read the books, but it makes sense to me. She loves him and follows him, even though she doesn’t want to intellectually and knows that she shouldn’t. A loving partnership corrupts into a parasitic relationship. So her love would then be unconditional after all, and that is not a good thing.
They are but puppets made to dance to the tune of others. The Bene Gesserit made Paul the way he is and opened the path for his ascension on Dune, while also imbuing the Fremen with their fanaticism and belief in the Messiah. What follows is a play that's starts as a means to an end and ends with the realization that once the first step is taken there is no more way back. Paul knew at the final moment of confrontation that there was but one possible outcome for things and he was in too deep to back out and had to accept it, even with great regret. Also the profound truth is that the old system was stale and stagnant and Paul would become the catalyst for something fresh, just like the Butlerian Jihad.
In the books she knows he marries her only for to throne and they remain lovers. Paul never loves or lays with Irulan. Rejecting to bear children from her.
@@EdexTheBear Without spoilers, Paul's love for Chani is part of his genetic memory, and it will endure thousands of years until the very end of the story. Even after dead, Paul will still love Chani through his genetic memory.
@bondrewdthenovel3598 can u explain like what happens after chani feels betrayed and walked away? i don't seem to understand, if you're free to explain of course
@@mahaa992 Her reaction is much like that player who no longer wants to be part of the game. She's pretty much done with everyone. - Even if the marriage between Paul and Irulan is for political reasons, she doesn't have to go along with it. - Her people, the Fremen, are now bloodthirsty fanatics, blinded by faith in the Lisan al Gaib, a faith she recognizes as a BG invention. - She has lost Paul, or at least the man she fell in love with. So she walk away, heartbroken, trying to escape her fate.
Saying Zendaya can’t act when she’s a 2x Emmy winner is something. I noticed a pattern with people who hate female characters who don’t bow to every whim of the “male hero.” 🙄
🙄Another indoctrinated pleb quoting a DEI approved script. Care to elaborate exactly what she won those Emmy's for? Not that it matters since Emmy's always go to talentless hacks.
There is some of that going on. But at least for me I just hate that Jessica got removed from the story to such a great degree while Chani got such a greater role. Jessica was a much more intersting character.
I personally would love to see Chani and Paul NOT ending up together in the movie. I think Chani's fate to become Paul's concubine in the books is so humiliating. Love is mutual respect and reciprocacy, a man shouldn't ask the woman he 'loves' to share him. It's interesting how most books in fantasy that involve the concept of concubines are written by men, while all women dream about is having one companion who is faithful and loyal (see how popular is the concept of 'fae mating' in nowadays fantasy). As a woman, it's really sad to realise there are representation of love so different in the minds of men and women. I hope it's not that common as i fear, because it would furthermore compromise the trust in men.
As a man myself... Yeah, I never got the appeal. I DO have an odd fascination for the "I love you deeply, but there are more important things happening, so I can't" typr of tragic love. Mostly because it feels less contrived than other options (in a duty vs. want sort of way).
Paul was utterly in love and devoted to chani in the books, his marriage with the princess was purely political and he never had any actual relationship with her.
I love the subtle suggestion that Paul might not be on a good path by showing Chani doing a grumpy face 10 times close up to the camera, Denis is truly a genius- Bravo bravo!
That's the downside of making Chani an opponent of the prophecy. In the books she accepts Paul as the Messiah. The filmmakers wanted to make it more clear that Paul isnt a good guy by adding Fremen disbelievers, but they didnt add an alternative that could challenge Pauls plan
@@dankeykang868Chani was opposed to her people being used and manipulated by some made up prophecy. She wanted Paul to lead the Fremen as Usul, the man she loved. Not some made up figurehead that was orchestrated generations ago. She wanted a leader who cared about the Fremen people, and inspired them with his actual merits and not by manipulating them with a prophecy he had no hand in making himself. He exploited the Fremen just line the Harkonnen’s did.
@@wingthomaux Because it’s orchestrated, not actually forseen. Let’s say for example a fortune teller prophesied that you’ll meet the love of your life in Reno, while wearing a red jacket, and then you’ll have two kids with them, and die uneventfully later on. So the next day you buy a red jacket, go to reno and wear that jacket every day for the rest of your life. Then one day in Reno you meet the love of your life, have two kids because that’s what the fortune teller said you’d do, then you die eventually. Did the fortune teller’s prophecy come true? Or did you make it come true by doing what it said you should do? Paul’s situation is the same. It’s not a real prophecy, just a well laid out scheme for a predetermined purpose. Prophecies see the future, not orchestrate it.
Chani takes off her blue headband/scarf because she does not longer love Paul? real question cuz when she starts noticing that Paul is getting Messiah complex she no longer wears the headband.
@@andrewomahony9260actually Denis used Chani’s character as a vehicle for the audience to understand Herbert’s actual point - Paul is not someone to root for. Denis did this masterfully!!!
@@tiah1927 Gonna have to disagree with you here. In the source material they were absolutely the love of each other's lives and none of what happened threatened that during the events of THIS part of the story. What he did is pit them against each other, and that's needless, silly, bratty, and very disappointing to see after waiting so long for a good adaptation. It reeks of "Yeah but I really want this to be MY version." Too much of that kind of crap happening with adaptations as it is.
@@NightRunner417 And whats actually suprising is it came from Villeneuve whom i absolutely revere and respect tf out of with his incredible BR 2049, that i didn't expect this kind of deviation at all. Its like, it'll be rude to say this but to rationalise his own ego of doing his take. I mean Paul & Chani is supposed to be together in Messiah now how tf he does that? If you ask me i bet Villeneuve does even more drastic changes to Messiah story I'm afraid. And also how he got rid of major factions and players like Mentats, Count Hasimir & also Navigators is just... 😑🤦🏻. I'm sorry Villeneuve but this ain't it for me. And also for me Rebecca as Jessica isn't it for me. She's like a weirdo wizard hippie talking to her fetus in a weird way when in the book her character is very composed.
@@albhem_eh All that... I can't disagree with you at all. And I really liked 2049 too, it was a truly brilliant step forward in the Blade Runner universe. Beautiful imagery, beautiful story, just all around very well done. But... it wasn't based on any existing book, am I right? So he was free to just run his own show unless he went way outside of any established rules of canon, which would have been hard to do given no hard rules to follow except the content of the first movie. His mistake here is that he basically threw a curtain over the source material and said, "Don't look at this book... keep your eyes on ME." That's fine for all the kiddies that know nothing of the books, but it's never going to work for the real fans of Herbert's work. Even myself as a lover of Lynch's movie way back then, I had to concede that it was VERY flawed and ultimately had to acknowledge that SyFy's attempt had a greater degree of faithfulness to the book. If you're going to honor the original works, then you can't go around raving about something that ursurps it for basically likes and subs.
It was not important to create a counterpart to paul in the old sci fi series. It was obvious even admitted by jessica that she and paul used the myths of the fremen to survive. And his desire to see more to see all also. No one saw paul as a good guy in the series. It was and is only a storie of revenge. Revenge of the harkonnen on leto atreides and than pauls revenge on them and the emperor who supported the harkonnen. In the sci fi series jessica makes chani understand that paul can't marry her because a political alliance between atriedes and another house must be possible. So at the end when paul marrys irulan she knows its only political and that paul has no interest in irulan.
I mean, in the context of the movie alone, she sort of brought it on herself. She made it clear that, while she felt for Paul, she didn't trust him fully and never would because "he's a foreigner" and then she showed she would rather let him die than help him live if it meant "proving" a prophecy "true." I feel like, if someone basically proves they'd rather let you die, they shouldn't be shocked or feel betrayed if you choose someone else over them. (Even though Paul really didn't, because he'd never love Irulan and would only ever actually love Chani, and he kept choosing her pretty much the entire movie and doing what he could to prove himself to her, etc). And yes, I've read the books, I know Paul is the warning not the hero and Chani was used to show that danger
"and then she showed she would rather let him die than help him live if it meant "proving" a prophecy "true."" And she was right for it, considering that fremen are now just slaves to their religion, and the holy war. It's also a bit dumb to say she brought it, considering that Jessica forced her with the voice to obey the prophecy. Your comment also frames it as though if Chani obeyed the prophecy, he wouldn't start the holy war?
@@Mish844 No, no, I meant brought it on herself as in, if you would rather choose letting the person you love die...you can't really be surprised if they "choose" someone else over you as you (to them) would have kind of betrayed them first sort of thing. (I know Paul didn't really choose Irulan as "her over Chani" but more politics like his father not marrying Jessica for the same reason). In the context of the movie, I agree, if he'd died the Freman might have been able to move past it and go on, maybe succeed against their enemies without the religious beliefs hanging over them or influencing them. (In the book they make it a little clearer that even if Paul died earlier, the jihad would still happen in his name, there would be no stopping it with or without him there.). I also don't meant it as if Chani obeyed the prophecy the holy war would be stopped, I meant that part as if you genuinely and truly love someone, I think you would want them to live, and if you could help them live you'd do whatever you could to save them. If I saw the person I loved lying there nearly dead and I could save them, in that moment I wouldn't care if there was a prophecy attached, I wouldn't care about the outcome after, i'd just want them back and alive. For Chani to refuse to help Paul, to have to be forced by Jessica to save him, it means she would have rather let him die, which poses a question of how much did she actually love him? If she never really trusted him, then the love likely wasn't as genuine or true, and then the viewer might sort of feel even more empathetic to Paul as the movie would seem to lean towards him loving her more than she did him. Their love was such a key part of the book, to me it was a little hard to reconcile Book Chani with Movie Chani because she was willing to let him die when in the movie, when in the books, she would love him so much she'd risk her own life to be able to have children with him. Just my interpreation of some moments from the movie ;)
@@DfyGrvt21 Few major problems with this interpretation - Paul's marriage has absolutely nothing to do with Shani abandoning him, temporarily or otherwise, cuse it was a necessary point to ascend to the throne that had been mentioned back in part 1. He even reaffirms his love for Chani before the fight. "I meant that part as if you genuinely and truly love someone, I think you would want them to live" That's a bit much. She did say at some point smth along the lines of "as long as you remain yourself". At the point of drinking worm piss he actively embraced his role as Lisan al-gaib, we saw his speech/show for southern tribes, he became the prophet that Shani was wary of since beginning. This wasn't unconditional love and was never supposed to be, and if I may add my bit to the equation - that's a very healthy approach.
@@Mish844 Ah, but WE know his marriage to Irulan had nothing to do with Chani and everything to do with the throne/politics, Chani might not ;) She didn't strike me as a person (in the movie) who was very keen to hear all about the Great Houses or their politics, nor did she seem close enough to Jessica to have a discussion about why exactly she never married Leto. The movie also never made the connection that she was Liet's daughter and would have had a little more awareness for how the Empire worked so we have to assume she has a complete Freman upbringing with little understanding of other cultures and how they operate. As far as she might know, here's a guy who JUST said he loved her, then turned around and married someone else, how dare he? :) She wasn't there during the discussion with Jessica where he said he saw that she would eventually understand his choice and bore her no ill will, so as far as she knows, having barely spoken to him since the water of life, from her POV, I just meant it shouldn't be as shocking or seem like the biggest betrayal to her that he turned around and married Irulan when, from what she knows, the last real interaction they had was her being willing to let him die. Yes, he did say he'd love her as long as he breathed first, but she never said anything back. So, again, from her POV, it could be a he loves her and doesn't think she loves him in return, because she was willing to let him die. I got stuck on the "as long as you remain yourself" too, because...how would she really know? Yes, she saw his speech, but she didn't (from what we saw in the movie) try to talk to him about WHY he did it. Before the water of life, she knows he's a good battle strategist, she knows he did NOT want to assume this role, she knows he was avoiding going South because he didn't want to be the messiah to her people, she knows he rejected it at every turn, she knows he was trying to find literally any other way to liberate Arrakis without becoming the messiah...and yet she never stopped to question WHY he suddenly took up the mantle or let him explain? We the audience know it was a strategic move, that it was a way to gain him a larger army, to give him fire power to finally crush the Harkkonnes and the Emperor, but to Chani it's him becoming the Lisan-al-gaib, that it was a powerplay born of corruption and selfishness and not the possibility that, after drinking the water and being able to see more than anyone else, more than a Reverand Mother even, it was literally the only way to defeat the Harkkonnes to free her people from their rule, not trusting that his own rule (IF he even went that route, she didn't know at the time) would be better for her people? She had to know that he COULD see the future, unclearly before but he DID, and she knows that the water of life is more potent than any spice and allow the Reverend Mothers to see the past of other Reverend Mothers, but she doesn't know how that would affect a MAN because it's never happened before. I just think there was room for her to question what he saw when he drank the water that led to that point, whether it was a necessity "this is the ONLY way to defeat the Harkkonnes" or if it was just greed and lust for power. But she never tried to speak to him to find out. So DOES she know he's not still himself? He was living among her people, adapting to their way of life, but he had a life before them where he was set to become the next Duke and rule and be authoritative. This could have just been a more authoritative version of himself, who he would be as a duke instead of just a Freman. Idk, just rambling lol :) I'm just curious, if he saw her coming to understand his decision, if she would have sooner if she just confronted him about it and heard his reasonings rather than storm out and not speak to him for so long.
I dont really get the ending, it makes it seem like paul breaks up with chani, but the audience knows its just a political marriage right? Chani is the same as pauls mother a concubine and his father leto atreides only married for political gain. He even says, "I should have married you"
It's not Paul breaking up with Chani, so much as Paul choosing power over what he promised (equality). Paul, by continuing to feed into the stories about him until he turned the Fremen into a fanatical army serving him instead of a people protecting their home, slowly eroded away at Chani's trust in him. When he names himself Duke of Arrakis and later deposes the emperor so he can rule, he is fully betraying what he promised.
@@morganlefey8631 Paul needs to follow the golden path. Otherwise, humanity would perish (explained in the books). This version of Chani is not cut out for international.. umm.. I mean intergalactic affairs..
@@SvenSchackl Right. I understand, as a member of the audience, that Paul feels the need to follow this path. However, looking at it from Chani's perspective, and without access to Paul's well of knowledge, it clearly feels like a betrayal of everything they've tried to build together.
Their relationship was quiet different in the books. She was merely a reference point for a character against the jihad in the film. Hard book to adapt but I much preferred the books. First four books.
People seem to think Paul is the villain for the killing that happens as an extension of what he started . Yhey seem to forget even without the war, they would be obliterated by Feyd Rautha or some other power hungry individual with a moral compass more non existent than that of Paul
What's interesting is After Paul tells Chani , "Inwill love you for as long as I breathe. Then within Minutes tells the Emperor he will marry his daughter and they will rule together.... the absolute banger that most people miss is the Emperor tells Paul that he killed His fsther Leto be he believed in the interests of the heart and because of that he was a weak man. Paul was I'm the midst of betraying his heart for power. There in no doubt Paul loves Chani and thinks he can save the Fremen from the Houses ruling the desert and the Freman if he becomes Emperor!
yeah i’m not too intuned with Dune lore so why did he choose the princess over chani? like you have the emperor at your feet, you’re the son of leto. what more do you need to be legit? chani helped him get to where he is, literally helped him survive.
In the book …. Gurney -unknownigly- had sardukars hiding among his men, Paul didn’t kill them but sent them back to the emperor as a warning… if i remember well
Denis uses Chani as a vehicle to ground the audience in the fact that Paul is wrong - manipulative and power hungry. He’s getting the point across that Herbert wanted to convey all along, and ultimately the reason Herbert fell the need to write Dune Messiah - that Paul is not the good guy. It’s actually smart filmmaking and story telling because now the third movie doesn’t have to do a titanic shift in tone. The counter view and plot is set and we can ride this out through the third installment of Dune: Messiah.
@@tiah1927Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune gets this across really well when he has a conversation with his son over the prophecy that his son is so desperate to align himself with.
@@tiah1927 No, hes changing the story. This stupid director thinks he will make people dislike Paul by changing the story but hes only making people dislike the director.
@@drakemordred2982 Rest assured that what will be remembered is "WOW THAT VILLENEUVE MOVIE!" because its suuuuuuper cooooooool, lol. It might push _some_ people to read the books, hopefully it will, but most will be content to just run around the Earth telling other people what Dune is all about when it's really just another director trying to make a name for himself. Funny part is... fanboys are all like "His point was Paul isn't the good guy!!!" because Paul was being manipulative in order to see his agenda through. So what does that make Villeneuve? 🤣 It's a beautiful pair of movies, and I really liked the first one. It's just not lore accurate, and that irritates me, A LOT.
@tiah1927 not true at all. In dune Messiah he wishes he didn't have to do any of it. He is trying to find a way out. They changed it for women like you because we can't have a young girl be a wife and mother. She has to be a girl boss. Hope this helps
She knew it was coming..... But she didn't know how soon it would happen...... Btw he did warn her and also tried to avoid it. If she seeks revenge, then she is stupid
Here my only issue with Chani in the movie. I liked how she was made a character that did not believe in the prophecy of the Lisan Al geib I admire her integrity 2 know that the benne gresserit made up that ruse in order 2 away her people, she was the character that kept Paul grounded 2 reality and didn’t allow him 2 lose himself. HOWEVER towards the end it got rlly stale 4 me she has no SYMPATHY. Paul did everything in his power 2 avoid this path 2 avoid going south even going as far as telling stilgar he is “NOT theyre messiah” but the circumstances forced Paul 2 take the water of life Chani knows this but instead of showing compassion or understanding she’s just scornful and dismissive, in my opinion her anger should more be pointed toward the bene gesserit and not paul. U can argue all day abt Paul’s decision but at the end of the day can u rlly blame him 4 making the choices he did in part 2? Paul was coerced into this path and forced 2 against his will 2 walk down it no matter wat he did, his fate was sealed the moment he landed on arrakis. I just wish Chani coulda been more understanding instead of flat out hating paul 4 something he couldn’t control.
On top of that, she's arguably the ultimate catalyst that caused Paul to head south and drink the Water of Life and take on the mantle of Lisan al Gaib. He shared his premonitions of heading south with her while she's the one that finally persuaded him. Chani: the world has made choices for us. Paul: If I go South, I might lose you. Chani: You will never lose me, Paul Atreides... not as long as you stay who you are. I just got mixed messages from her and especially towards the final parts of the film. I think we were supposed to find her character extremely conflicted internally, but I don't think her inner turmoil translated very well in a sympathetic way to the screen.
I found it so frustrating that the movie spent so much time making chani always fighting against the prophecy. I don’t remember reading that Chani had any problems with Paul being the lisan al gaib. At the end of the book paul comfort3d chani by saying that the princess would have no touch or anything from him. It's a good movie but i still feel they spent too much time in the movie off story just for angst
the biggest, and only, sin of that movie was that they altered the fact that Chani knew he would take Irulans hand and that she "stayed" a concubine. (guess it doesnt fit with modern audiences) None the less Paul gave nothing to Irulan, no love or affection in any way and Chani also knew that.
I don't think they've altered it to fit with modern audience. Menage a trois, mistresses and poliamory are not taboo topics. I believe they've used Chani to show Paul is not the hero, in case someone missed. Probably quite a lot of people have.
I don't know how they move on to part three. Chani needs to be one good enough terms with Paul to have kids with him but that looks to be out the window with this story. I know they used her so the audience could see the "heroes aren't good-guys" bit, but they seem to have painted themselves into a corner and I don't see how they correct the mistake.
This isnt chani, this is zendaya with the same character she always play. I call her mary jane chani. Worst part of the movie by far, every time she scowl she deserved a slap. Guy is freeing your people and saving the universe and you get mad because he takes a wife (by name only to avoid diplomatic crisis) and run into the desert with his son (a major character in the future) without following any of the books? I hate zendaya and i hate this character, when she scream in the prayer room is so cringe
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. I guess Dune 2 took us away a different path in the end than the book. That could be interesting. In the next movie I would like to see Chani leading remaining Fremen that didn't follow Paul against him.
The eyes of Chani, the eyes of Ibad, Chani in bangla language, a type of disease in Eyes. I don't know how this is so coincidental. These eyes expressed everything without so many dialogues.
All love is conditional, the only difference is if it's fair or unfair. Not loving someone if they turn out to be a religious monster who leads your people to fanaticism and death is a totally fair condition.
@@user-re6xt2xf3kyou beat me by a minute mate.. unconditional love is a myth and knowing all love is conditional is how you don't lose yourself or your self respect.
@@user-re6xt2xf3k isn't he actually this chosen one they believe he is? I've been looking up like crazy if he really is this chosen one, or if there even is such a thing in Dune. (They heavily imply it's just a religious fable). She's willing to die and fight, along with her people for the freedom of Arrakis. If he's able to lead them(Paul) , and achieve the same goal she wants, it really is her personal feelings about him. Which is fair, considering he asked another woman to be his bride right in front of her😂😂. She feels she lost the humble young fighter she met, but if he's offering to bring the result that she wants for her people, it really is just about her. Also from what I've looked up, and again, there is never one clear answer because different sources say the same thing, Paul is actually the chosen one. (According to the books, and the belief of the Bene Gesserit)
@@isaacdelvalle2027 I mean, he's the chosen one insofar as he's the final product of the Bene Gesserit's breeding program, albeit a generation or two early. Chosen one or not, he uses the superstitions planted by the Bene Gesserit to make the Fremen _believe_ he's the chosen one. He's not liberating them, he's wielding them as a weapon in order to rule the known universe. There's a huge gulf between freeing Arrakis from oppression and waging a genocidal galactic holy war. As far as Chani's love goes, she feels betrayed because Paul isn't really Paul anymore after taking the Water of Life. He's 90% Kwisatz Haderach now. With all of the other voices in his head, he has essentially become a different person.
@@disastergoblin65 ah okay thank you for that answer, I've been researching and too many different sources say different things. So Paul is the chosen one, but the Chosen one turns out to be really bad news. Dayum.
All the weirdos attacking zendaya are just insecure boys who never met a real wife. If not they would never talk like that about one. And please, if you don't know anything about acting don't say that she is bad it's straight up false.
read the books chani never disapproved of Paul. I always support and accept being your concubine. The film eliminated something so structural, the construction of both personalities, the death of Leto, the first son of Paul and Chani, at the hands of the emperor's agent. This creates a union between them that explains what Paul becomes and later regrets.
so you like the idea of a man asking the woman he should 'love' to share him witb another. What kind of love is that? Paul is chosing power and control over love and loyalty. Like 'yeah chani I love you, but wait let me sleep for tonight with my wife to keep up the legacy'. Funny how most of the people who are unhappy with Chani's character changes are men while women are pretty satisfied with ber not accepting humiliation. Personally i don't want to see them back together like in the books.
@@veronika.hans2578 But he never loved Irulan and refused to sleep with her. “You play a part, no more. We both know who my wife is.” That's how he views his relationship with the princess purely political mind you in the same conversation Irulan threatened to Cuck him but Paul simply didn't care. I don't mind the change in Chani because in time she will understand.
@@veronika.hans2578 Paul never loved Irulan nor slept with her, their relationship is a purely political move to legitimize Paul’s rule. “You play a part, no more. We both know who my wife is.” These are the words Paul said to her after she tried to threaten to Cuckold him but he didn't care. Channi understood Paul’s move in the book she didn't find it embarrassing because she knew their bond of love was strong.
Paul: I can't go South because of my visions and the fundamentalists Chani: No Paul you have to come South to save my people from the Harkonnen. Paul goes south. Chani: You betrayed me
In the books Chani knows that He marries Irulan only for the legitimacy of his ascension and is cool with it. Irulan is his wife in title only. He only engages and confides with Chani. In the movies Chani is a stupid idiot. But I guess they needed a “headstrong independent” female lead to pass as a woke holywood movie.
Ok, so she wants him to go to the South, knowing what would happen and complains afterwards? Storms out, like a little girl, while others face affairs on a galactic scale? I think the original Chani was stronger..
Paul: I will love you for as long as I breathe
Also Paul: Stops breathing
It’s funny too because without the future sight he has only known her for a couple months at this point lol
@@Alex-nr4xb, 5 ог 6 years. Book!
@@NiVinny well that's the book, tho. Movie time line is different. However it doesn't diminish the love they have for each other.
Paul reuniting with Gurney really fueled the fire.
disagree.. Gurney returning and knowing where to find weaponry was just part of the prophecy that Paul would be the messiah. Gurneu didn't trigger anything... it was simply steps in the prophecy
@@twittertwiceI hope this is sarcasm and you don’t really believe that lol, cuz the prophesy is a fabrication.
@steelnation5110 Yes and No, Paul is Kwisatz Haderach, and he has really seen "Paradise" AKA the golden path.
@@dzeniba5357his son will be the uh... Whatever you spell that. Paul had the potential, but did not follow through in his life.
@@dzeniba5357 *Spoilers for future dune books*
Taking the golden path into account he doesn’t even really do that either, he didn’t have the willpower to fully commit (becoming an immortal worm lol). But there’s not really a “prophesy” in the sense that there’s some supernatural or theistic force propelling Paul’s destiny like the Fremen believe. It’s more scientific than it is religious. Paul was bred to fulfill a role that the Bene Gesserit had been preparing, they even had other prospects that they could have used to fulfill that role in Paul’s place. Paul is able to see the future and into his genetic memory because of his DNA, which was carefully cultivated over thousands of years, not because of magical powers. Referring to the comment I was originally responding to, Paul at this point in the movie is trying to avoid his visions and has yet to take the Water of Life so his visions are not as clear (he refers to them as fragments). He’s surprised that Gurney is still alive, so I wouldn’t say he was “part of the prophesy” even if such a thing we’re real (which it isn’t) and his connection to House Atreides undoubtedly fuels his more colonial tendencies.
In his defense, he did warn her that if he went South then it would start something he couldn't stop
Yeah, she literally asked him to go..
I mean everyone wanted green paradise so bad so I'm with them
My man Gurney has no filter lol.
Haha😂
He doesn’t give 2 shits!
He is Thanos after all 🤣
@@Bx-pbg oh ye i forgot😹
Gurney: 🦅🦅
The look of despair and anger on Chani's face when Paul announces he will marry the princess..😢
I smile every time I see watch that
Ok psycho@@Jocelyn_Herrick
Nah, that's just the only expression Zandaya's capable of. Girls not good at acting and I really wish they got someone else to play Chani. By far the weakest thing in these movies.
FR. You can literally pinpoint the exact moment where her heart breaks.
@samcooper2474 she's incredible. But I get it. She did something you dont like and you got all butt hurt and you hate her. Now go get a life maga lover
Chani's character in the book was very different, but Denis used her as a foil to show the audience that Paul was a false Messiah with his own agenda. The Fremen were his tool to be wielded for that agenda. It was refreshing to see someone, anyone, challenge him.
It was Paul in the book who challenged himself, he was very unwilling to take up the mantel but everyone got swept up in it, including him
This plot point makes no sense because given Denis's story the fremen had no choice. Spice is the most valuable substance in the universe, a substance that the rest of the universe would fight a never-ending war of attrition to try and get Arrakis back under control. The fremen were never safe to just reclaim their planet and be to themselves, Stilgar knew this from the start. They had to bring the inverse down to respect them as a peoples, and even then they would still constantly be in danger.
Honestly doesn’t make sense. Liet Kynes was the propagator of the Lisan al Gaib myth, and Chani was one of Paul’s most fervent supporters because Chani is Liet’s daughter.
When Frank Herbert wrote the book, he intended it to be a trilogy, and the consequences shown in Messiah was the foil to Paul’s arc. He didn’t use Paul’s Jihad to remind the readers to doubt him all the time, but he used it to slap them across the face and shows the real consequences of ideological fervor
Except in the book Paul isn't that at all.
Not really came across as an immature idealist
Paul did know better than Robb Stark, lol.
The thing that I found pretty messed up is the fact that Paul had pretty much no actual concern about her anger at him because he knew she’d eventually come around one day due to his visions. It’s pretty messed up to do something you know will hurt someone you love because “She’ll get over it. I’ve seen it.”
It’s another point showing just how separated he is from everyone else. To him the pain and suffering he inflicts doesn’t matter as much to him because he can see the outcome of his choices. So it’s easier for him to cope with his atrocities because he’s the one person alive who can say “it’s all for the greater good” even though a “greater good” doesn’t make all the death and suffering okay.
good point, which is why this movie is dumb, and has little to do with F.H. writing.
@@mregskwach6037 I don’t think it’s dumb. I really liked the movie.
Great point
@@AesirUnlimited Cinematically it was pretty cool. I liked the sandworms in the imax. But it really wrecked Frank Herbert's work just as badly as the previous iterations. You make a good point about the movie, just know that what you said is irrelevant to the book. Chani and the Fremen are totally different and thus so is Paul's relationship with Chani and the Fremen. Paul was used and controlled by the Fremen and Chani more than he controlled them. And Chani was training to become a reverend mother herself. She not only saw and understood Paul's vision, she actively co-created the Jihad with him.
@@mregskwach6037 Yeah but a movie doesn’t need to be like the book to be good. Look at the lord of the rings movies. They left out Gil-Galad fighting Sauron with Elendil, Glorfindel was replaced by Arwen, Tom Bombadil wasn’t there, Gandalf didn’t spend decades figuring out if Frodo actually had the one ring, Narsil wasn’t reforged before the fellowship left Rivendell, Merry and Pippin joined the quest willingly instead of by accident, The great eagles saved Gandalf from Orthanc, etc. The list could’ve kept going too, but the point is that people love those movies despite them changing a ton from the book, enough to piss off Tolkien if he lived to see them. But people don’t care because the LOTR movies are really good despite being different from the source material. The new Dune movies are in the same boat.
"There, you can see the exact moment her heart breaks."
... and there... and there... and there..."
May thy heart chip and shatter
Paul didn’t betray her. Paul died the second he drank the water of life. The Kwisatz Haderach is who betrayed her.
i dont think paul “died” but i think him drinking the water solidified that he was gonna play the role.. that his fathers revenge was more important than the fremen..
@datruthslayaaa I don't even think it's about his father. It's like the one in 14 million future thing from Endgame. He just knows it all too well
No one is saying he betrayed her, but she feels betrayed. They changed a role in this movie. In the book she stayed loyal to paul. In the movie however she has been rewritten to be an antithesis to paul's journey to become the messiah. She's an agnostic while paul walks the path of religion and power.
@@datruthslayaaa
He absolutely died. His singular consciousness has been swallowed up by many others. The person he was died, because he has been changed completely.
@@Sierraone1 Which doesn’t seem to work considering she will end up being with him and bearing his children.
After the slap scenes with Chani, has a lingering pissed off and lingering pissed-off look. Finally, she has the heartbroken scene, where I wished they had ended it. Instead, she calls an Uber SandWorm to pick her up
This is Denis' film and his vision. I think he ended it brilliantly! There is a third Dune. Denis knows what he is doing
@@twittertwicewe will see if know what he is doing lol. So far I see either work of extremely talented egoistic guy who thought that he will make his own Dune or guy who doesn't understand what he is doing lol. So far he ruined not only Jessica who is at movie fanatic while at books she is one who was questioning Paul but also Chani and Paul arc. Book Chani is ground cable for Paul to humanity, without her he even forgets that he is at present, he is losing himself in his visions. Spoiler, Paul couldn't fulfill Golden Path cause Chani death, so we have a great Sandstorm size plot hole here. I didn't even mention that while at books Alia was 7 when battle for Arrakin started in movie she is not born yet. Denis made a masterpiece in many sense but his movie ended up having 0 depth which Herbert Dune had. I would be fine if he didn't not call himself Dune fan. You can't completely change whole characters and Paul's arc, this is changing core of books. As fan I see this movie as a spit on grave of Herbert and his work, visually movie as a masterpiece. Music, deserts, atmosphere guy made amazing
Always running away
@@emilkhusainov8089I don’t think it’s fair to call this as a “spit” on someone’s work just because of a few changes. The main concept still seems to be here - Chani is Paul’s mental tether, so losing her plunges him into the darkness.
It’s getting annoying with gatekeeping nerds who always complain about every adaptation to be 100% identical to the source material. It’s not some sacred text.
@@LilacSreya i would be okay if there would be FEW changes. Changing characters completely which also will eventually change whole plot are HUGE changes. Lol they is huge difference between losing someone because she died or when she just left, don't you think? You can't 100% stick to source, but as minimum all characters should be there and their personalities should be same as in books. Which is what is called to make movie BASED on book, not on your own pure imagination.
Chani: YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! IT WAS SAID THAT YOU WOULD FREE US FROM THE EMPIRE, NOT BECOME IT! BRING THE FREMEN TO PARADISE, NOT LEAD US TOWARDS GENOCIDE!!!
I think it’s hilarious they basically used 80% of Chani’s screen time to glower at Paul to make sure the audience recognizes what Paul is doing is bad… and it’s even more hilarious that it actually was a pretty effective choice.
It's only wrong if you're not Jewish.
I think this is a really poor choice. Obviously Paul is doing bad things, but the person were supposed to empathise with spends half the movie sulking and is just really uncompelling.
It doesn’t make sense at all to me. Even movie chani who doesn’t believe in the prophecy should be hyped about basically everything he’s doing. Who cares if it’s a real prophecy if everything he does works in favor of the fremen.
Nah it was the better choice. She was an upgrade lmao@@zack4915
@@wingthomaux Chani is upset because she doesn’t want the Fremen to be people dependent on prophecy and religious fervor to better their lives. She rightly sees that idol worship and the crusade will make the Fremen people slaves to their religious idealism, and she’d rather see them free to self determine.
When Chani walked out. We can all hear Peter Parker cheering silently.
Chani's last line in Part One: "This is only the beginning..."
Chani's last line in Part Two: "This isn't over yet."
Chani's last line in Messiah, presumably: "Okay, it's over."
That last scene between Paul and Chani was nothing short of epic ❤👌🏽✨️ Brilliant acting from both
she didn't bow to him once
Okay and? Sorry why should she bow? I don’t really understand.
@@urfav_nicolee she was the only fremen who wasn't
"I will love you as long as i breathe", looks at another girl accross the room "let's get married".
I love this Chani.
paul betraydes
lol
BAHAHAH 💀💀💀
HA! I see what you did there, it’s because his name is Paul! Funny guy here
ahhahahahha so funny!!!!
When he slaps her and then the music goes HAAIAAAAA- and cuts off suddenly it’s so fucking funny
there's nothing funny about a woman slapping a man, it's incredibly b*tchy!
I just commented the same thing lol shit had me laughing my ass off
Can we talk about the slap lol
Stilgar: Lisan Al-Gaib
He was slapped, as it was written!
She looked like she was going to tear his head off in all these scenes!
That’s the only emotion she can show is frumpy mad girl
To me this is the best and worst part of the movie. The actors did such an incredible job and the score was perfect. I really felt how heartbroken Chani was in that moment, and Paul’s attempt at preemptive reassurance was expertly delivered and full of emotion. Just fantastic.
Paul knew that if Chani was with him she would be targeted and if she was pregnant his children they would be targeted. He made a wise decision bc he knew she would comeback to him. Remember his precognitive powers lets him see the past-present and future at the same time.
See? you can pinpoint the exact moment her heart rips in half!!! 4:02
I think a lot of people are forgetting the change in Chani is likely because when the actual Dune books first came out, everybody missed the whole point in that Paul is not a hero. People thought he was. The reasoning behind these Chani choices accomplished multiple things. It gives Chani more agency in the narrative, makes it clear this isn’t a white savior movie and, related to that, makes it blindingly obvious Paul is not the good guy here. Like it really needs to drive that last point home for the messages to be impactful (and people do not analyze media like they used to) and this choice does multiple things at the same time. Hence, Chani movie changes.
what you mean to say is that the director changed the story and that the book is different.
It was dumb and unnecessary. Both movies were already punching us in the face with Paul's many nightmare visions of the future, Paul's dialogue with others where he directly states that gaining control is a bad thing and his mother's scheming in the background. Yes....we get it. Paul was not a hero. It was made VERY CLEAR that Paul taking over was bad and it would lead to horror and death.
Having Chani constantly whine and cry and stating the obvious on top of all this just got annoying and was redundant. It ruined their chemistry as well.
@@Gunnar001 His loving wife and soulmate pulled a knife on him during his speech. Completely changed the book.
Who the fuck thought to themselves "ah yes dune my white savior movie" people just want sci fi and space worms lol
That's not the reason. They want to make chani a strong and independent girlboss
Ohhhhh boy......another part. We'll all be in our fifties barely reaching the end of Dune.
😂😂😂 I said the same damn thing
in the books, paul would start the biggest cleansing of the universe! His fanatic Fremen would invade and conquer 1000 worlds! He would become death incarnate and dispised by his own people!
I hate how subtle they did the melange blue within blue eyes.
2:42 lmao in the trailer sounds cool but here is Chani making comedy
Really hate dumb people who post dumb statements. Go watch Sesame street
I thought the same in the theater 😅
So cringe
I’m surprised by all the criticism here towards Zendaya. I just saw the film for the second time, and I think she’s one heck of an actress. As for the ‘it won’t make sense when Chani gets back together with Paul’ thing, I haven’t read the books, but it makes sense to me. She loves him and follows him, even though she doesn’t want to intellectually and knows that she shouldn’t. A loving partnership corrupts into a parasitic relationship. So her love would then be unconditional after all, and that is not a good thing.
One note miserable face is all she has got. Boss girling it to close to the sun. She is a waster
They are but puppets made to dance to the tune of others. The Bene Gesserit made Paul the way he is and opened the path for his ascension on Dune, while also imbuing the Fremen with their fanaticism and belief in the Messiah. What follows is a play that's starts as a means to an end and ends with the realization that once the first step is taken there is no more way back. Paul knew at the final moment of confrontation that there was but one possible outcome for things and he was in too deep to back out and had to accept it, even with great regret. Also the profound truth is that the old system was stale and stagnant and Paul would become the catalyst for something fresh, just like the Butlerian Jihad.
agree!
Best scene in the movie was the ending scene when Paul takes the hand of the emperors daughter and Chani feels the betrayal!
In the books she knows he marries her only for to throne and they remain lovers. Paul never loves or lays with Irulan. Rejecting to bear children from her.
03:35 If you have read the books you know that Paul kept his promise until the very, very end.
Now you peaked my interest, explain
@@EdexTheBear Without spoilers, Paul's love for Chani is part of his genetic memory, and it will endure thousands of years until the very end of the story.
Even after dead, Paul will still love Chani through his genetic memory.
@bondrewdthenovel3598 can u explain like what happens after chani feels betrayed and walked away? i don't seem to understand, if you're free to explain of course
@@mahaa992 Her reaction is much like that player who no longer wants to be part of the game. She's pretty much done with everyone.
- Even if the marriage between Paul and Irulan is for political reasons, she doesn't have to go along with it.
- Her people, the Fremen, are now bloodthirsty fanatics, blinded by faith in the Lisan al Gaib, a faith she recognizes as a BG invention.
- She has lost Paul, or at least the man she fell in love with.
So she walk away, heartbroken, trying to escape her fate.
@bondrewdthenovel3598 omg thanks so much kind soul ♡
Saying Zendaya can’t act when she’s a 2x Emmy winner is something. I noticed a pattern with people who hate female characters who don’t bow to every whim of the “male hero.” 🙄
🙄Another indoctrinated pleb quoting a DEI approved script. Care to elaborate exactly what she won those Emmy's for? Not that it matters since Emmy's always go to talentless hacks.
Exactly! That's what the misogynistic people do in every Fandom.
There is some of that going on. But at least for me I just hate that Jessica got removed from the story to such a great degree while Chani got such a greater role. Jessica was a much more intersting character.
I personally would love to see Chani and Paul NOT ending up together in the movie. I think Chani's fate to become Paul's concubine in the books is so humiliating. Love is mutual respect and reciprocacy, a man shouldn't ask the woman he 'loves' to share him. It's interesting how most books in fantasy that involve the concept of concubines are written by men, while all women dream about is having one companion who is faithful and loyal (see how popular is the concept of 'fae mating' in nowadays fantasy). As a woman, it's really sad to realise there are representation of love so different in the minds of men and women. I hope it's not that common as i fear, because it would furthermore compromise the trust in men.
Yeah, but it’s kinda hot
As a man myself... Yeah, I never got the appeal. I DO have an odd fascination for the "I love you deeply, but there are more important things happening, so I can't" typr of tragic love. Mostly because it feels less contrived than other options (in a duty vs. want sort of way).
Paul never stopped loving chani though. She was a concubine in name only, just like jessica was to the duke.
Paul was utterly in love and devoted to chani in the books, his marriage with the princess was purely political and he never had any actual relationship with her.
@@dickgrayson7928 Exactly what I wanted to say
I love the subtle suggestion that Paul might not be on a good path by showing Chani doing a grumpy face 10 times close up to the camera, Denis is truly a genius-
Bravo bravo!
Chani seemingly wants her people free but has no clear plan of her own and is blind to her own role in the prophecy.
That's the downside of making Chani an opponent of the prophecy. In the books she accepts Paul as the Messiah. The filmmakers wanted to make it more clear that Paul isnt a good guy by adding Fremen disbelievers, but they didnt add an alternative that could challenge Pauls plan
@@dankeykang868Chani was opposed to her people being used and manipulated by some made up prophecy. She wanted Paul to lead the Fremen as Usul, the man she loved. Not some made up figurehead that was orchestrated generations ago. She wanted a leader who cared about the Fremen people, and inspired them with his actual merits and not by manipulating them with a prophecy he had no hand in making himself. He exploited the Fremen just line the Harkonnen’s did.
There is no prophecy.
@@AesirUnlimitedwhen everything the prophecy says does happen how can someone claim it is false. The bene geserit themselves could be wrong.
@@wingthomaux Because it’s orchestrated, not actually forseen. Let’s say for example a fortune teller prophesied that you’ll meet the love of your life in Reno, while wearing a red jacket, and then you’ll have two kids with them, and die uneventfully later on. So the next day you buy a red jacket, go to reno and wear that jacket every day for the rest of your life. Then one day in Reno you meet the love of your life, have two kids because that’s what the fortune teller said you’d do, then you die eventually. Did the fortune teller’s prophecy come true? Or did you make it come true by doing what it said you should do? Paul’s situation is the same. It’s not a real prophecy, just a well laid out scheme for a predetermined purpose. Prophecies see the future, not orchestrate it.
Chani takes off her blue headband/scarf because she does not longer love Paul? real question cuz when she starts noticing that Paul is getting Messiah complex she no longer wears the headband.
i wonder why chani feels betrayed in the movie when in the books she is by pauls side, he loves only her a bullies the prince
Because Villenueve clearly didn't read the book as part 2 was occupied with meaningless filler.
@@andrewomahony9260actually Denis used Chani’s character as a vehicle for the audience to understand Herbert’s actual point - Paul is not someone to root for.
Denis did this masterfully!!!
@@tiah1927 Gonna have to disagree with you here. In the source material they were absolutely the love of each other's lives and none of what happened threatened that during the events of THIS part of the story. What he did is pit them against each other, and that's needless, silly, bratty, and very disappointing to see after waiting so long for a good adaptation. It reeks of "Yeah but I really want this to be MY version." Too much of that kind of crap happening with adaptations as it is.
@@NightRunner417 And whats actually suprising is it came from Villeneuve whom i absolutely revere and respect tf out of with his incredible BR 2049, that i didn't expect this kind of deviation at all.
Its like, it'll be rude to say this but to rationalise his own ego of doing his take. I mean Paul & Chani is supposed to be together in Messiah now how tf he does that?
If you ask me i bet Villeneuve does even more drastic changes to Messiah story I'm afraid.
And also how he got rid of major factions and players like Mentats, Count Hasimir & also Navigators is just... 😑🤦🏻.
I'm sorry Villeneuve but this ain't it for me. And also for me Rebecca as Jessica isn't it for me. She's like a weirdo wizard hippie talking to her fetus in a weird way when in the book her character is very composed.
@@albhem_eh All that... I can't disagree with you at all. And I really liked 2049 too, it was a truly brilliant step forward in the Blade Runner universe. Beautiful imagery, beautiful story, just all around very well done. But... it wasn't based on any existing book, am I right? So he was free to just run his own show unless he went way outside of any established rules of canon, which would have been hard to do given no hard rules to follow except the content of the first movie.
His mistake here is that he basically threw a curtain over the source material and said, "Don't look at this book... keep your eyes on ME." That's fine for all the kiddies that know nothing of the books, but it's never going to work for the real fans of Herbert's work. Even myself as a lover of Lynch's movie way back then, I had to concede that it was VERY flawed and ultimately had to acknowledge that SyFy's attempt had a greater degree of faithfulness to the book. If you're going to honor the original works, then you can't go around raving about something that ursurps it for basically likes and subs.
Can’t wait to see how it turns out in 10 years when I’ve forgotten what’s going on
Sad enough I think chani wanted to be more like his wife and not a concubine like lady Jessica.
It was not important to create a counterpart to paul in the old sci fi series. It was obvious even admitted by jessica that she and paul used the myths of the fremen to survive. And his desire to see more to see all also. No one saw paul as a good guy in the series. It was and is only a storie of revenge. Revenge of the harkonnen on leto atreides and than pauls revenge on them and the emperor who supported the harkonnen. In the sci fi series jessica makes chani understand that paul can't marry her because a political alliance between atriedes and another house must be possible. So at the end when paul marrys irulan she knows its only political and that paul has no interest in irulan.
Humans...we are never satisfied with what we have
Paul having an Eren Yaeger moment.
Real
I wish there were more comparisons to them both 😭
I mean, in the context of the movie alone, she sort of brought it on herself. She made it clear that, while she felt for Paul, she didn't trust him fully and never would because "he's a foreigner" and then she showed she would rather let him die than help him live if it meant "proving" a prophecy "true." I feel like, if someone basically proves they'd rather let you die, they shouldn't be shocked or feel betrayed if you choose someone else over them. (Even though Paul really didn't, because he'd never love Irulan and would only ever actually love Chani, and he kept choosing her pretty much the entire movie and doing what he could to prove himself to her, etc). And yes, I've read the books, I know Paul is the warning not the hero and Chani was used to show that danger
"and then she showed she would rather let him die than help him live if it meant "proving" a prophecy "true.""
And she was right for it, considering that fremen are now just slaves to their religion, and the holy war. It's also a bit dumb to say she brought it, considering that Jessica forced her with the voice to obey the prophecy.
Your comment also frames it as though if Chani obeyed the prophecy, he wouldn't start the holy war?
@@Mish844 No, no, I meant brought it on herself as in, if you would rather choose letting the person you love die...you can't really be surprised if they "choose" someone else over you as you (to them) would have kind of betrayed them first sort of thing. (I know Paul didn't really choose Irulan as "her over Chani" but more politics like his father not marrying Jessica for the same reason).
In the context of the movie, I agree, if he'd died the Freman might have been able to move past it and go on, maybe succeed against their enemies without the religious beliefs hanging over them or influencing them. (In the book they make it a little clearer that even if Paul died earlier, the jihad would still happen in his name, there would be no stopping it with or without him there.).
I also don't meant it as if Chani obeyed the prophecy the holy war would be stopped, I meant that part as if you genuinely and truly love someone, I think you would want them to live, and if you could help them live you'd do whatever you could to save them. If I saw the person I loved lying there nearly dead and I could save them, in that moment I wouldn't care if there was a prophecy attached, I wouldn't care about the outcome after, i'd just want them back and alive.
For Chani to refuse to help Paul, to have to be forced by Jessica to save him, it means she would have rather let him die, which poses a question of how much did she actually love him? If she never really trusted him, then the love likely wasn't as genuine or true, and then the viewer might sort of feel even more empathetic to Paul as the movie would seem to lean towards him loving her more than she did him. Their love was such a key part of the book, to me it was a little hard to reconcile Book Chani with Movie Chani because she was willing to let him die when in the movie, when in the books, she would love him so much she'd risk her own life to be able to have children with him.
Just my interpreation of some moments from the movie ;)
@@DfyGrvt21 Few major problems with this interpretation - Paul's marriage has absolutely nothing to do with Shani abandoning him, temporarily or otherwise, cuse it was a necessary point to ascend to the throne that had been mentioned back in part 1. He even reaffirms his love for Chani before the fight.
"I meant that part as if you genuinely and truly love someone, I think you would want them to live"
That's a bit much. She did say at some point smth along the lines of "as long as you remain yourself". At the point of drinking worm piss he actively embraced his role as Lisan al-gaib, we saw his speech/show for southern tribes, he became the prophet that Shani was wary of since beginning. This wasn't unconditional love and was never supposed to be, and if I may add my bit to the equation - that's a very healthy approach.
@@Mish844 Ah, but WE know his marriage to Irulan had nothing to do with Chani and everything to do with the throne/politics, Chani might not ;) She didn't strike me as a person (in the movie) who was very keen to hear all about the Great Houses or their politics, nor did she seem close enough to Jessica to have a discussion about why exactly she never married Leto. The movie also never made the connection that she was Liet's daughter and would have had a little more awareness for how the Empire worked so we have to assume she has a complete Freman upbringing with little understanding of other cultures and how they operate. As far as she might know, here's a guy who JUST said he loved her, then turned around and married someone else, how dare he? :) She wasn't there during the discussion with Jessica where he said he saw that she would eventually understand his choice and bore her no ill will, so as far as she knows, having barely spoken to him since the water of life, from her POV, I just meant it shouldn't be as shocking or seem like the biggest betrayal to her that he turned around and married Irulan when, from what she knows, the last real interaction they had was her being willing to let him die.
Yes, he did say he'd love her as long as he breathed first, but she never said anything back. So, again, from her POV, it could be a he loves her and doesn't think she loves him in return, because she was willing to let him die.
I got stuck on the "as long as you remain yourself" too, because...how would she really know? Yes, she saw his speech, but she didn't (from what we saw in the movie) try to talk to him about WHY he did it. Before the water of life, she knows he's a good battle strategist, she knows he did NOT want to assume this role, she knows he was avoiding going South because he didn't want to be the messiah to her people, she knows he rejected it at every turn, she knows he was trying to find literally any other way to liberate Arrakis without becoming the messiah...and yet she never stopped to question WHY he suddenly took up the mantle or let him explain?
We the audience know it was a strategic move, that it was a way to gain him a larger army, to give him fire power to finally crush the Harkkonnes and the Emperor, but to Chani it's him becoming the Lisan-al-gaib, that it was a powerplay born of corruption and selfishness and not the possibility that, after drinking the water and being able to see more than anyone else, more than a Reverand Mother even, it was literally the only way to defeat the Harkkonnes to free her people from their rule, not trusting that his own rule (IF he even went that route, she didn't know at the time) would be better for her people? She had to know that he COULD see the future, unclearly before but he DID, and she knows that the water of life is more potent than any spice and allow the Reverend Mothers to see the past of other Reverend Mothers, but she doesn't know how that would affect a MAN because it's never happened before. I just think there was room for her to question what he saw when he drank the water that led to that point, whether it was a necessity "this is the ONLY way to defeat the Harkkonnes" or if it was just greed and lust for power. But she never tried to speak to him to find out. So DOES she know he's not still himself? He was living among her people, adapting to their way of life, but he had a life before them where he was set to become the next Duke and rule and be authoritative. This could have just been a more authoritative version of himself, who he would be as a duke instead of just a Freman. Idk, just rambling lol :)
I'm just curious, if he saw her coming to understand his decision, if she would have sooner if she just confronted him about it and heard his reasonings rather than storm out and not speak to him for so long.
2:07 ¿what this is?
Please upload scene when he’s staring at chani
I dont really get the ending, it makes it seem like paul breaks up with chani, but the audience knows its just a political marriage right? Chani is the same as pauls mother a concubine and his father leto atreides only married for political gain. He even says, "I should have married you"
It's not Paul breaking up with Chani, so much as Paul choosing power over what he promised (equality). Paul, by continuing to feed into the stories about him until he turned the Fremen into a fanatical army serving him instead of a people protecting their home, slowly eroded away at Chani's trust in him. When he names himself Duke of Arrakis and later deposes the emperor so he can rule, he is fully betraying what he promised.
@@morganlefey8631 Paul needs to follow the golden path. Otherwise, humanity would perish (explained in the books). This version of Chani is not cut out for international.. umm.. I mean intergalactic affairs..
@@SvenSchackl Right. I understand, as a member of the audience, that Paul feels the need to follow this path. However, looking at it from Chani's perspective, and without access to Paul's well of knowledge, it clearly feels like a betrayal of everything they've tried to build together.
I always thought about his powers when he saw multiple realities. Of his future.
Their relationship was quiet different in the books. She was merely a reference point for a character against the jihad in the film. Hard book to adapt but I much preferred the books. First four books.
This scene make that one song called "little dark age" hits differently 😮
People seem to think Paul is the villain for the killing that happens as an extension of what he started .
Yhey seem to forget even without the war, they would be obliterated by Feyd Rautha or some other power hungry individual with a moral compass more non existent than that of Paul
No Paul is a villain for what happens after, the unnecessary holy war and all that
@@davidthewhale7556how is it unnecessary?
if it was a woman, nobody would've complain
What's interesting is After Paul tells Chani , "Inwill love you for as long as I breathe. Then within Minutes tells the Emperor he will marry his daughter and they will rule together.... the absolute banger that most people miss is the Emperor tells Paul that he killed His fsther Leto be he believed in the interests of the heart and because of that he was a weak man. Paul was I'm the midst of betraying his heart for power. There in no doubt Paul loves Chani and thinks he can save the Fremen from the Houses ruling the desert and the Freman if he becomes Emperor!
yeah i’m not too intuned with Dune lore so why did he choose the princess over chani? like you have the emperor at your feet, you’re the son of leto. what more do you need to be legit? chani helped him get to where he is, literally helped him survive.
In the book …. Gurney -unknownigly- had sardukars hiding among his men, Paul didn’t kill them but sent them back to the emperor as a warning… if i remember well
What you mean to say is that another Hollywood director changed the story. Chani was not like this in the book.
Denis uses Chani as a vehicle to ground the audience in the fact that Paul is wrong - manipulative and power hungry. He’s getting the point across that Herbert wanted to convey all along, and ultimately the reason Herbert fell the need to write Dune Messiah - that Paul is not the good guy.
It’s actually smart filmmaking and story telling because now the third movie doesn’t have to do a titanic shift in tone. The counter view and plot is set and we can ride this out through the third installment of Dune: Messiah.
@@tiah1927Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune gets this across really well when he has a conversation with his son over the prophecy that his son is so desperate to align himself with.
@@tiah1927 No, hes changing the story. This stupid director thinks he will make people dislike Paul by changing the story but hes only making people dislike the director.
@@drakemordred2982 Rest assured that what will be remembered is "WOW THAT VILLENEUVE MOVIE!" because its suuuuuuper cooooooool, lol. It might push _some_ people to read the books, hopefully it will, but most will be content to just run around the Earth telling other people what Dune is all about when it's really just another director trying to make a name for himself. Funny part is... fanboys are all like "His point was Paul isn't the good guy!!!" because Paul was being manipulative in order to see his agenda through. So what does that make Villeneuve? 🤣
It's a beautiful pair of movies, and I really liked the first one. It's just not lore accurate, and that irritates me, A LOT.
@tiah1927 not true at all. In dune Messiah he wishes he didn't have to do any of it. He is trying to find a way out. They changed it for women like you because we can't have a young girl be a wife and mother. She has to be a girl boss. Hope this helps
Well...bye!
She knew it was coming..... But she didn't know how soon it would happen...... Btw he did warn her and also tried to avoid it. If she seeks revenge, then she is stupid
As the great Ser Bronn of the Blackwater from GOT said… wed one and bed the other…
The book ends differently. I've read it many times since the 80's
3 hours of Zendaya scowling
Honestly man this whole movie just felt like a really long perfume ad
Paul is the qwisat haderact
Here my only issue with Chani in the movie. I liked how she was made a character that did not believe in the prophecy of the Lisan Al geib I admire her integrity 2 know that the benne gresserit made up that ruse in order 2 away her people, she was the character that kept Paul grounded 2 reality and didn’t allow him 2 lose himself. HOWEVER towards the end it got rlly stale 4 me she has no SYMPATHY. Paul did everything in his power 2 avoid this path 2 avoid going south even going as far as telling stilgar he is “NOT theyre messiah” but the circumstances forced Paul 2 take the water of life Chani knows this but instead of showing compassion or understanding she’s just scornful and dismissive, in my opinion her anger should more be pointed toward the bene gesserit and not paul. U can argue all day abt Paul’s decision but at the end of the day can u rlly blame him 4 making the choices he did in part 2? Paul was coerced into this path and forced 2 against his will 2 walk down it no matter wat he did, his fate was sealed the moment he landed on arrakis. I just wish Chani coulda been more understanding instead of flat out hating paul 4 something he couldn’t control.
On top of that, she's arguably the ultimate catalyst that caused Paul to head south and drink the Water of Life and take on the mantle of Lisan al Gaib. He shared his premonitions of heading south with her while she's the one that finally persuaded him.
Chani: the world has made choices for us.
Paul: If I go South, I might lose you.
Chani: You will never lose me, Paul Atreides... not as long as you stay who you are.
I just got mixed messages from her and especially towards the final parts of the film. I think we were supposed to find her character extremely conflicted internally, but I don't think her inner turmoil translated very well in a sympathetic way to the screen.
@@darkengine5931 I agree
wtf was that weird lip thing she did after he says he'll marry her?
I found it so frustrating that the movie spent so much time making chani always fighting against the prophecy. I don’t remember reading that Chani had any problems with Paul being the lisan al gaib. At the end of the book paul comfort3d chani by saying that the princess would have no touch or anything from him. It's a good movie but i still feel they spent too much time in the movie off story just for angst
please, read the book, Pauls marriage with Irulan is only a political act.
Chain definitely watched Attack on Titan
I’d be worried too
Arwen and Aragorn lived happily ever after.
Ginny and Harry lived happily ever after.
Chani and Paul lived tragically never after.
well Aragorn didn't betray or cheated on Arwen plus he's a goo leader who don't sacrifice people, unlike paul..
Its his choice 😂😂
the biggest, and only, sin of that movie was that they altered the fact that Chani knew he would take Irulans hand and that she "stayed" a concubine. (guess it doesnt fit with modern audiences)
None the less Paul gave nothing to Irulan, no love or affection in any way and Chani also knew that.
I don't think they've altered it to fit with modern audience. Menage a trois, mistresses and poliamory are not taboo topics. I believe they've used Chani to show Paul is not the hero, in case someone missed. Probably quite a lot of people have.
she didnt go with the flow
She really just had 1 facial expression for 90% of the movie
I don't know how they move on to part three. Chani needs to be one good enough terms with Paul to have kids with him but that looks to be out the window with this story. I know they used her so the audience could see the "heroes aren't good-guys" bit, but they seem to have painted themselves into a corner and I don't see how they correct the mistake.
Modern audience Chani.
Simon is NOT Moschiac
This isnt chani, this is zendaya with the same character she always play. I call her mary jane chani.
Worst part of the movie by far, every time she scowl she deserved a slap. Guy is freeing your people and saving the universe and you get mad because he takes a wife (by name only to avoid diplomatic crisis) and run into the desert with his son (a major character in the future) without following any of the books?
I hate zendaya and i hate this character, when she scream in the prayer room is so cringe
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. I guess Dune 2 took us away a different path in the end than the book. That could be interesting. In the next movie I would like to see Chani leading remaining Fremen that didn't follow Paul against him.
so hold on... he always had blue eyes? i am confused by this.
It looks like a brighter than usual color, but most notably is affecting the entire eye rather than just the iris
The eyes of Chani, the eyes of Ibad, Chani in bangla language, a type of disease in Eyes. I don't know how this is so coincidental. These eyes expressed everything without so many dialogues.
She straight up loves him only conditionally. I believe she tells him as long as he stays as he is.
All love is conditional, the only difference is if it's fair or unfair.
Not loving someone if they turn out to be a religious monster who leads your people to fanaticism and death is a totally fair condition.
@@user-re6xt2xf3kyou beat me by a minute mate..
unconditional love is a myth and knowing all love is conditional is how you don't lose yourself or your self respect.
@@user-re6xt2xf3k isn't he actually this chosen one they believe he is? I've been looking up like crazy if he really is this chosen one, or if there even is such a thing in Dune. (They heavily imply it's just a religious fable). She's willing to die and fight, along with her people for the freedom of Arrakis. If he's able to lead them(Paul) , and achieve the same goal she wants, it really is her personal feelings about him. Which is fair, considering he asked another woman to be his bride right in front of her😂😂. She feels she lost the humble young fighter she met, but if he's offering to bring the result that she wants for her people, it really is just about her. Also from what I've looked up, and again, there is never one clear answer because different sources say the same thing, Paul is actually the chosen one. (According to the books, and the belief of the Bene Gesserit)
@@isaacdelvalle2027 I mean, he's the chosen one insofar as he's the final product of the Bene Gesserit's breeding program, albeit a generation or two early. Chosen one or not, he uses the superstitions planted by the Bene Gesserit to make the Fremen _believe_ he's the chosen one. He's not liberating them, he's wielding them as a weapon in order to rule the known universe. There's a huge gulf between freeing Arrakis from oppression and waging a genocidal galactic holy war.
As far as Chani's love goes, she feels betrayed because Paul isn't really Paul anymore after taking the Water of Life. He's 90% Kwisatz Haderach now. With all of the other voices in his head, he has essentially become a different person.
@@disastergoblin65 ah okay thank you for that answer, I've been researching and too many different sources say different things. So Paul is the chosen one, but the Chosen one turns out to be really bad news. Dayum.
bro why does zendaya have the same annoyed expression throught out the movie
I did not like that part at all - chani and Paul’s relationship was one reason I liked the book so much
All the weirdos attacking zendaya are just insecure boys who never met a real wife. If not they would never talk like that about one.
And please, if you don't know anything about acting don't say that she is bad it's straight up false.
read the books chani never disapproved of Paul. I always support and accept being your concubine. The film eliminated something so structural, the construction of both personalities, the death of Leto, the first son of Paul and Chani, at the hands of the emperor's agent. This creates a union between them that explains what Paul becomes and later regrets.
so you like the idea of a man asking the woman he should 'love' to share him witb another. What kind of love is that? Paul is chosing power and control over love and loyalty. Like 'yeah chani I love you, but wait let me sleep for tonight with my wife to keep up the legacy'. Funny how most of the people who are unhappy with Chani's character changes are men while women are pretty satisfied with ber not accepting humiliation. Personally i don't want to see them back together like in the books.
@@veronika.hans2578 But he never loved Irulan and refused to sleep with her.
“You play a part, no more. We both know who my wife is.”
That's how he views his relationship with the princess purely political mind you in the same conversation Irulan threatened to Cuck him but Paul simply didn't care. I don't mind the change in Chani because in time she will understand.
@@veronika.hans2578 Paul never loved Irulan nor slept with her, their relationship is a purely political move to legitimize Paul’s rule.
“You play a part, no more. We both know who my wife is.”
These are the words Paul said to her after she tried to threaten to Cuckold him but he didn't care. Channi understood Paul’s move in the book she didn't find it embarrassing because she knew their bond of love was strong.
@@veronika.hans2578paul NEVER slept with irulan. She was merely a wife in name only. Even Paul's subjects knew that he loved Chani only.
She still has an option to chose among lower rank men.
What they did to chani is bunk
Paul: I can't go South because of my visions and the fundamentalists
Chani: No Paul you have to come South to save my people from the Harkonnen.
Paul goes south.
Chani: You betrayed me
Why tf do people keep casting her in sh-t...
She Cant Act!!
Maybe that’s your opinion, I love her acting
Paul already beg her he can't go south and drink the blue juice. Their love story ended when he go south
Obviously they did not read the books.
But you have, which makes you so cool.
@@Andre_77cognitively superior, yes.
Eh, Chani kinda mid tho, I think the new Emperor made the right call.....
3:26 😑🔱
And then you remember that she has only two facial expressions (other one being smug).
She looked like she had sand in there the whole movie. Tedious!
Idk, to me it felt overdone.
In the books Chani knows that He marries Irulan only for the legitimacy of his ascension and is cool with it. Irulan is his wife in title only. He only engages and confides with Chani. In the movies Chani is a stupid idiot. But I guess they needed a “headstrong independent” female lead to pass as a woke holywood movie.
Ok, so she wants him to go to the South, knowing what would happen and complains afterwards? Storms out, like a little girl, while others face affairs on a galactic scale? I think the original Chani was stronger..