Reading the dicussion about fortepiano vs piano. Fact is that Beethoven wrote this music on and for fortepiano, and he pushed the instrument to the limits of its possibilities. He might have been longing for, imagining the sound of the piano, and after all his music is one of the reasons for the piano's development. But I am convinced that if he had written for piano, his writing would have been different, exploring the boundaries of that instrument.
You gotta love TH-cam. The end of the first movement was interrupted by a video asking about what happens when you drink I don't know what before you poop... Great mood killer. I love Beethoven and Mozart in fortepiano, I might be wrong but to me some of it makes a lot more sense than what I'm used to hear. Awesome video.
I find this very interesting in part because everyone tries to play this piece like it's Clair de Lune, even though that romantic image of moonlight over lake lucerne make no sense when looking at Beethoven's life in any capacity
@@tyrekebonaparte Well, actually it would be an error of style to play it like Clair de lune. Even this piece of Beethoven should not be played like e.g. Chopin. One needs to stay much more sober, crescendos must be strait, rather linear, the rubato should be limited. This piece is all but “sweet”. Therefore, especially the first movement is very difficult to play from a stylistic point of view.
@@CodyHazelleMusic Whilst it is fair to say that music evolves over centuries, I don’t agree that you could just do anything to a 200 or 300 years old piece in terms of interpretation. If for instance one would play a Mozart sonata like Debussy it would be not be very respectful to the composition. If one listens to old recordings back to the 1920ies and 1930ies one would notice that musicians took a lot more liberties then nowadays, with e.g. a lot of rubato. This has disappeared today, fortunately. Whilst, to my understanding, nothing speaks against playing music on modern instruments, one must respect the particular style of each composer.
@@oliverpeters7485 To be fair, most people don't care about respecting the composition, they just want to listen to and play music in the style they like, and I do think it is very interesting to experiment with new styles of playing. Having said that, I do see your point of respecting the original composer, and playing the music with the context of the era.
This frickin rules man thanks for making this. This is like discovering we’ve been listening to Mendelssohn violin cto on saxophone by accident this whole time
I know I see an amazing video when I forget to upvote, and have to come back to do so.. Amazing, because I do love the clarity of the fortepiano, even though its sound is "thinner" and more "percussive", and, I guess, disliked by most pianists. However, it definitely helps following the contrapunctal aspect of the opus. The other remarkable thing here is the contextual thoughts given to the phrasé and speed, which adapts to the current part, its emotion state and its meaning to what was before and what will come after. I really loved it, because most, if not all, "modern" pianist will take these kinds of musical pieces as a contest for speed, showing-off of pianistic skills, first-to-the-arrival-line kind. Which ruins the piece most of the time. But not here, there is space, there is breathing, there is meaning. Congrats! And of course, the chords indications are just the icing on the Beethoven's cake. What's up with the Napolitan chord BTW? And references to future Chopin is kind of funny, when you think of it :) All in all, that was an entertaining, educational, but above anything else, a truly enriching musical experience. Thanks to all involved in this.
Thank you for your encouraging comments! For further clarification about Chopin, have a look at this earlier video: th-cam.com/video/HXBkrm-4M-w/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xtu1wKfzT5lN2POA&t=1214
Great video, I really appreciate the notes you added. Having more context is always helpful when trying to understand the classics! I hope you make more videos like this.
Loved the descriptions added! As a musical illiterate it is most helpful and helps me understand the music better, even if I don't retain it the first time I can come back to it. Thank you! 🙂
The 1st movement must be at the very top level of piano writing of all time. Sheer genius in melody and harmony. Thanks for the notes - I haven't really studied harmonically it so they were most interesting. 🙂
Beautiful interpretation. The nostalgic sound of the instrument made me hear the second movement as a "flashback" to a happy memory amid the tragedy of the first and third.
2:23 Beethoven lost hearing of the higher frequencies first. Perhaps the arpeggios are climbing up to touch the terrible silence there, before falling back down into despair.
Interesting idea. Brian Chapman draws attention to Beethoven's wierd notation of the melody entries at 0:21 and 2:55 - pp with the accompaniment also pp. Does he want it to be difficult to hear? It is not a mistake, we have the latter in his autograph and both are in the first edition. It must have troubled Schnabel, in his performing edition he decided the accompaniment must drop to ppp so the melody could enter cantabile.
A really insightful traversal of the composition itself in this hugely famous piece. The last movement would have seen a few instruments to the menders as Beethoven would not have held back (reading Czerny and others describing his playing) hence piano evolved in his time including 2 thin to 3 thick strings and 5 to 6.5 octaves . A telling insight stood out in "Chopinesque" as a descriptive on a revolutionary passage - like a precursor to a few decades time. It certainly is. Loads more i could write but suffice to say Good stuff Prof , my students will benefit as much as me.
Answer:Yes! You made the menuet and 3rd mvt arpeggios and “quartet” theme sound like they really were written for fortepiano. (And of course the ability to play 1st mvt senza sordino) It was also nice to discover that some of my idiosyncratic interpretations aren’t idiosyncratic after all :)
Thank you for the informative video! 😊 It was really helpful and gave me a lot of new knowledge. I appreciate that you took the time to share this information. 💫
The first movement is the piece that drew me into playing the piano, and somehow this reveals something I wondered about at the age of 11 ... it is sad, and troubled, and heartbroken ... I played it for a friend recalled to serve in Iraq in the 2000s... it fit. This fits. This is also the piece that told me, at my wee age, that Beethoven as a young man had been through A LOT, so his life story was not as much a surprise to me as it might have been as I began to explore in my teens what he was going through at my age then and now. This performance answers questions I've had for a long time ... even how Beethoven felt about his relationship to the family of the young lady he dedicated this too ... the sadness of the first movement and the rage that still has room for tears of fire that seems nearly enough to almost destroy the instrument in the third movement is a LOT ... but the life Beethoven endured to be who he was really was a lot, and I think sometimes we are as deaf to him as he was to the world. Not today. Thank you.
listening again... the third movement, man, that's fire, excellent performance, despite some mistakes, the rubato amazing, the tempo... that's passion.
The thing I like about this piece on the fortepiano is that you get a sense of struggle as Beethoven and the pianist try to get maximum expression from a relatively inexpressive instrument. bee
Thank you, I only wish I could hear you play at the Cobbe collection but I live in Melbourne. I hope you will record audio even if you cannot post it. I never realised this was a dissonant piece until you said so and played it on the fortepiano.
That's just rubbish. Musicians were constantly unhappy with the state of the keyboard instruments in the 18th and 19th Century. That's why they evolved into the modern piano. If Beethoven had access to them he would have prefered them. Same as Bach. They just had to make due with what was available at the time.
@Quotenwagnerianer I disagree - it's the instrument Beethoven wrote for. It's anachronistic conjecture to assume that composers would have preferred the modern Steinway. Of course the Steinway is a magnificent instrument, but once you get used to the sonority of the fortepiano, it's a magical sound and much of its subtlety and richness of resonance is lost on modern instruments.
@@themusicprofessor Personally I prefer the Bösendorfer Imperial, but that is beside the point. Composers in Beethoven's time were always nagging the piano manfacturers to improve the instruments, to improve the mechanics, make them louder and less feeble in sound. So, no, I don't think it is conjecture to assume they would have prefered later pianos like the Erards of the 1850's. Playing Beethoven on the fortepiano does not give you a sound that is better, or how it is "supposed" to sound like. It just gives you the sound that was available to him at the time. That's of a certain interest and I would not part with any of my recordings of the Sonatas or concertos on these instruments. Same as I would not want to part with the Harpsichord recordings of Bach. But the ones on the modern instruments are simply superiour in sound.
@@themusicprofessor Well, I definitely join @Quotenwagenrianer’s comment. To me the sound of the fortepiano maybe be historically correct but it is all but so frustrating. I prefer playing this masterpiece of music on a modern piano.
I'm not for one moment denying the viability of playing Beethoven on modern pianos! I do it myself. I agree that the subsequent development of pianos in the 19th century was partly a response to the challenges that Beethoven's work presented to the technology of the instrument. However, I still think it's important, and interesting, to hear the sonority of the instrument for which the music was originally written.
not sure I like it that ferocious, but still thanks. Also ironic we need to call figurations chopinesque instead of calling Chopin fiorituras Beethovenian as it should - he really was the major figure foreshadowing all romantic composers no matter how much they wanted to call him rude or whatever...
Yes - there is an explanation of all this in the original video on the first movement: th-cam.com/video/HXBkrm-4M-w/w-d-xo.htmlsi=nJhmEazUoowzJZPT&t=1214
This was marvellous thankyou! How was the pedalling different to that you’d perform on a modern pianoforte? Did you perform as per the original pedalling marks?
I can't help feeling that this instrument sounds something between a toy piano and an upright suitably out of tune for honky tonk. Possibly a little unkind, but I i have to admit to preferring the sound of modern pianos.
I’m with you on that. I could never understand the preference that some people have for period instruments, which I find interesting only for historical purposes. Overall, to me the strings sound scratchy, the wind instruments nasal, and the keyboards tinny. I’ve spoken to a small number of people who prefer the period instruments, and when I mention my objections, they invariably say, “Well, this is how the actual composers and audiences heard the music originally,” to which I reply, “How unfortunate for them.” Really, when you consider it, why were changes made to instruments? They were made as improvements. Composers, instrumentalists, and instrument makers themselves were dissatisfied with how the instruments sounded and felt the sounds needed to be improved. We now have the fruits of their labors. Although I found listening to this piece interesting, I too would much prefer it played on a good modern piano. If to some that makes me a philistine, so be it. I’ve been called worse.
What instrument is this played on? That will give us a good idea of judging the tonality of the instrument. Is this a broadwood or other English instrument? It certainly does not sound Viennese
Not compulsory. Very much a performer's choice (as so many things are in music!) In this instance, I had use of the fortepiano for an hour and I had to get through it fast!
Thank you for this video, especially for the footage! Having said this, I don’t believe that Beethoven would be satisfied with the sound of a fortepiano whilst his music sounds so much better on a modern piano. To my ears a fortepiano sounds always a bit out of tune. On top of that its dynamic is very limited. A modern piano offers so much more possibilities to adequately play Beethoven’s music which was intended for the best instruments yet to come.
I might be misattributing but IIRC Professor may have mentioned in another video that Beethoven also wasn’t satisfied with the lack of lower bass keys. I agree with you Beethoven would have loved modern instruments, as suggested by Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure
The fortepiano is the instrument Beethoven wrote for. I understand why listeners who are used to the more uniform sound and tuning of the modern Steinway prefer it. But I think it's anachronistic conjecture to assume that composers would have preferred the modern Steinway. Beethoven would no doubt have been amazed by the modern piano but he would probably have been troubled by the fact that it irons out some of his compositional intentions (the instruction to play "without mutes" in the first movement - for example. Of course the Steinway is a magnificent instrument, but once you get used to the sonority of the fortepiano, it's a magical sound and much of its subtlety and richness of resonance is lost on modern instruments.
@@themusicprofessor Well, I doubt that Beethoven wrote for the fortepiano, he rather wrote for an instrument that did not exist yet and the closest he got was the fortepiano. What I definitely don’t like about these instruments: they always sound as if they were out of tune and the sound is too thin. I definitely prefer my Yamaha CF6.
@@oliverpeters7485what do you mean by "out of tune"? To Beethoven, hearing the tuning that you are used to hearing would sound "out of tune" to him, or at the very least, very unusual. So think of it not as being "out of tune", but as "played in a different accent"
@@charlesgaskell5899 Even if a fortepiano is tuned well tempered, the tuning varies with the intensity you hit the key. This is not the case with a modern piano. That’s why the fortepiano appears to be out of tune.
The "fortepiano" is an awful instrument. It always sounds out of tune, because it always is. Give me a modern, concert piano, Steinway, Fazioli, any time!
People can argue all they want about the tempo of this piece, and there's merit to both sides of the argument but for me personally when people play it like they're in a hurry to get somewhere like this, it always loses a little something.
@@themusicprofessor does that make Beethoven's technique aspirationally modern?😄 As for some of the comments, and as a non-performing non-professional music listener, I am a little irritated by those people of superior knowledge saying a particular performance is not correct, or, more blatantly, asserting their personal preference is more correct. There are musical fashions and performers change. To my mind the performer has a say in how they are going to interpret the composer's work and I get to hear the result. I don't see this as a business of right to wrong. The performer is not a slavish automaton of the composer required to render the music exactly as inscribed. We listeners get to appreciate the results of this collaboration of performer and composer. It is even more interesting when the performer explains what they intended to achieve. So, rant complete - thank you Professor (and Loki) for a very enjoyable and educational performance, please continue. I can't possibly follow everything done and said but I do very much enjoy your efforts.
@@themusicprofessor I like your work very much, and I have no doubt of your skill and understanding of music... but that was quite a foolish statement. Beethoven was an 18th century student and played on the clavichord in particular right until his death (see an anecdote from his nephew about tuning his clavichord in 1825). In this case, his playing would absolutely not be of a 'modern technique'. Also, I would imagine a deaf man would break a few strings in some effort to hear what he played, but this latter statement is totally a personal assumption.
I'm pretty sure this is the same set of recordings you've posted before, so I'll skip it. The background noise is just too disruptive. I'm not even bothered by the honest mistakes, it's the entirely avoidable mic placement that just makes it unlistenable. Really very disappointing, and I dearly hope you get another chance to perform this again with a better recording.
Fine. NB all of our videos take time and effort to make outside of our busy schedules. They are distributed to viewers free of charge and made on a very low budget which does not currently extend to expensive recording equipment, studios etc. However, generous donations are always welcome!
I'd argue that the tempo should be taken a tad faster. The first movement is clearly an operatic aria. (alla mozart's death of the commendatore from Don Giovanni) The triplets must be treated as an accompaniment figure, not the foreground.
@@gammafoxlore2981 It is played at about 66 bpm, which is right at the upper end of adagio, the marking given by Beethoven. But it is not the tempo per se that bugs me so much as the incessent rhubato, which to me is too melodramatic. A steady beat would have improved this performance no matter what the tempo.
@@ronrice1931 It shouldn't be any slower than this. 66bpm is probably the slowest you'd want to go considering this is 66bpm to the QUARTER note… meanwhile the time signature is CLEARLY marked "alla breve," so the HALF note is getting the count, so it should instead be felt as 33bpm to the half note. Furthermore, Beethoven actually wanted this to be played with the pedal down the entire time, as the Italian is clearly states right under the tempo marking.
Thanks god piano evolve... I don't like this sound that much, I mean, compared to modern pianos. In a spacious place sounds a lot better. However I enjoyed the performance, it has a unusual passion, the mistakes are not serious and the passion and musicality was there
Much of the problem with sound is simply that we used a single quite primitive microphone for this recording. But I'm glad some musicality comes through!
![ละลาย (LALALYE) - DAOU PITTAYA ต้าห์อู๋ พิทยา [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wo6r9TgausI/mqdefault.jpg)
Reading the dicussion about fortepiano vs piano.
Fact is that Beethoven wrote this music on and for fortepiano, and he pushed the instrument to the limits of its possibilities. He might have been longing for, imagining the sound of the piano, and after all his music is one of the reasons for the piano's development.
But I am convinced that if he had written for piano, his writing would have been different, exploring the boundaries of that instrument.
You gotta love TH-cam. The end of the first movement was interrupted by a video asking about what happens when you drink I don't know what before you poop... Great mood killer.
I love Beethoven and Mozart in fortepiano, I might be wrong but to me some of it makes a lot more sense than what I'm used to hear. Awesome video.
I find this very interesting in part because everyone tries to play this piece like it's Clair de Lune, even though that romantic image of moonlight over lake lucerne make no sense when looking at Beethoven's life in any capacity
@@tyrekebonaparte Well, actually it would be an error of style to play it like Clair de lune. Even this piece of Beethoven should not be played like e.g. Chopin. One needs to stay much more sober, crescendos must be strait, rather linear, the rubato should be limited. This piece is all but “sweet”. Therefore, especially the first movement is very difficult to play from a stylistic point of view.
Music evolves over centuries. It's okay to not play it how it might have been played 200 years ago
@@CodyHazelleMusic Whilst it is fair to say that music evolves over centuries, I don’t agree that you could just do anything to a 200 or 300 years old piece in terms of interpretation. If for instance one would play a Mozart sonata like Debussy it would be not be very respectful to the composition. If one listens to old recordings back to the 1920ies and 1930ies one would notice that musicians took a lot more liberties then nowadays, with e.g. a lot of rubato. This has disappeared today, fortunately. Whilst, to my understanding, nothing speaks against playing music on modern instruments, one must respect the particular style of each composer.
@@oliverpeters7485 To be fair, most people don't care about respecting the composition, they just want to listen to and play music in the style they like, and I do think it is very interesting to experiment with new styles of playing. Having said that, I do see your point of respecting the original composer, and playing the music with the context of the era.
It's common but there are plenty of exceptions. Kempff and Schnabel of course. Pletnev in the last few years, Schiff and Giltburg for example.
This frickin rules man thanks for making this. This is like discovering we’ve been listening to Mendelssohn violin cto on saxophone by accident this whole time
I know I see an amazing video when I forget to upvote, and have to come back to do so..
Amazing, because I do love the clarity of the fortepiano, even though its sound is "thinner" and more "percussive", and, I guess, disliked by most pianists. However, it definitely helps following the contrapunctal aspect of the opus.
The other remarkable thing here is the contextual thoughts given to the phrasé and speed, which adapts to the current part, its emotion state and its meaning to what was before and what will come after. I really loved it, because most, if not all, "modern" pianist will take these kinds of musical pieces as a contest for speed, showing-off of pianistic skills, first-to-the-arrival-line kind. Which ruins the piece most of the time. But not here, there is space, there is breathing, there is meaning. Congrats!
And of course, the chords indications are just the icing on the Beethoven's cake. What's up with the Napolitan chord BTW? And references to future Chopin is kind of funny, when you think of it :)
All in all, that was an entertaining, educational, but above anything else, a truly enriching musical experience. Thanks to all involved in this.
Thank you for your encouraging comments! For further clarification about Chopin, have a look at this earlier video: th-cam.com/video/HXBkrm-4M-w/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xtu1wKfzT5lN2POA&t=1214
Great video, I really appreciate the notes you added. Having more context is always helpful when trying to understand the classics! I hope you make more videos like this.
Loved the descriptions added! As a musical illiterate it is most helpful and helps me understand the music better, even if I don't retain it the first time I can come back to it. Thank you! 🙂
The 1st movement must be at the very top level of piano writing of all time. Sheer genius in melody and harmony. Thanks for the notes - I haven't really studied harmonically it so they were most interesting. 🙂
I would watch videos like this all night long. Always something more to learn....
Beautiful interpretation. The nostalgic sound of the instrument made me hear the second movement as a "flashback" to a happy memory amid the tragedy of the first and third.
😊p😊p😊pp😊pppopp😊ppppppp
2:23 Beethoven lost hearing of the higher frequencies first. Perhaps the arpeggios are climbing up to touch the terrible silence there, before falling back down into despair.
Interesting thought.
Interesting idea. Brian Chapman draws attention to Beethoven's wierd notation of the melody entries at 0:21 and 2:55 - pp with the accompaniment also pp. Does he want it to be difficult to hear? It is not a mistake, we have the latter in his autograph and both are in the first edition.
It must have troubled Schnabel, in his performing edition he decided the accompaniment must drop to ppp so the melody could enter cantabile.
Thank you so very much. That was a beautiful performance, and the fortepiano really fits this composition. I am moved.
Thank you.
I likes me Neapolitan ice cream, the Neapolitan 6th and 7th seem to go down nicely as well !
È sempre bello riascoltàre questi capolavòri inimitàbili con l'aggiùnta di indicaziòni tecnico/compositìve.
A really insightful traversal of the composition itself in this hugely famous piece. The last movement would have seen a few instruments to the menders as Beethoven would not have held back (reading Czerny and others describing his playing) hence piano evolved in his time including 2 thin to 3 thick strings and 5 to 6.5 octaves . A telling insight stood out in "Chopinesque" as a descriptive on a revolutionary passage - like a precursor to a few decades time. It certainly is. Loads more i could write but suffice to say Good stuff Prof , my students will benefit as much as me.
@simondavis8300 Thank you for your encouraging and insightful comment.
Answer:Yes! You made the menuet and 3rd mvt arpeggios and “quartet” theme sound like they really were written for fortepiano. (And of course the ability to play 1st mvt senza sordino) It was also nice to discover that some of my idiosyncratic interpretations aren’t idiosyncratic after all :)
Most excellent! Thank you, sir.
Thank you for the informative video! 😊 It was really helpful and gave me a lot of new knowledge. I appreciate that you took the time to share this information. 💫
Simply marvellous: instrument, performance and the illuminating analysis! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This was exciting, and I quickly got used to the different sound, as compared to a modern piano.
I've heard this wrong my entire life! Always one of my favorite pieces - even more so now.
The first movement is the piece that drew me into playing the piano, and somehow this reveals something I wondered about at the age of 11 ... it is sad, and troubled, and heartbroken ... I played it for a friend recalled to serve in Iraq in the 2000s... it fit. This fits. This is also the piece that told me, at my wee age, that Beethoven as a young man had been through A LOT, so his life story was not as much a surprise to me as it might have been as I began to explore in my teens what he was going through at my age then and now. This performance answers questions I've had for a long time ... even how Beethoven felt about his relationship to the family of the young lady he dedicated this too ... the sadness of the first movement and the rage that still has room for tears of fire that seems nearly enough to almost destroy the instrument in the third movement is a LOT ... but the life Beethoven endured to be who he was really was a lot, and I think sometimes we are as deaf to him as he was to the world. Not today. Thank you.
Thank you for this lovely comment.
Definitely going to save and listen often. Thanks!
Thanks for listening (often)!
That was great! Love the commentary!❤
The analysis was awesome to see in real time!
listening again... the third movement, man, that's fire, excellent performance, despite some mistakes, the rubato amazing, the tempo... that's passion.
Thank you!
I heard it in a completely different way on this instrument and with this video. Thanks, Matthew!
Thank you James!
The thing I like about this piece on the fortepiano is that you get a sense of struggle as Beethoven and the pianist try to get maximum expression from a relatively inexpressive instrument.
bee
When I went back in time I was so shocked to hear how different the pianos sounded compared to the acoustic piano now. I still remember the
First movement sounds far more serious on fortepiano opposed to the romantic version on normal piano. Here you can really here the struggle.
Amazing.
Brings back memories of winning a sonata competition when I was 11 with this sonata. 😅
Wow, how big were your hands at the time?
@@stewartmair3995 they spanned a tweltfh
Thank you, I only wish I could hear you play at the Cobbe collection but I live in Melbourne. I hope you will record audio even if you cannot post it. I never realised this was a dissonant piece until you said so and played it on the fortepiano.
Best first movement i've ever heard.
very nice!
This sonata sound as schould be , on fortepiano. This amazing sound that you can't get on modern piano.
That's just rubbish. Musicians were constantly unhappy with the state of the keyboard instruments in the 18th and 19th Century. That's why they evolved into the modern piano.
If Beethoven had access to them he would have prefered them. Same as Bach. They just had to make due with what was available at the time.
@Quotenwagnerianer I disagree - it's the instrument Beethoven wrote for. It's anachronistic conjecture to assume that composers would have preferred the modern Steinway. Of course the Steinway is a magnificent instrument, but once you get used to the sonority of the fortepiano, it's a magical sound and much of its subtlety and richness of resonance is lost on modern instruments.
@@themusicprofessor Personally I prefer the Bösendorfer Imperial, but that is beside the point.
Composers in Beethoven's time were always nagging the piano manfacturers to improve the instruments, to improve the mechanics, make them louder and less feeble in sound.
So, no, I don't think it is conjecture to assume they would have prefered later pianos like the Erards of the 1850's.
Playing Beethoven on the fortepiano does not give you a sound that is better, or how it is "supposed" to sound like. It just gives you the sound that was available to him at the time.
That's of a certain interest and I would not part with any of my recordings of the Sonatas or concertos on these instruments. Same as I would not want to part with the Harpsichord recordings of Bach.
But the ones on the modern instruments are simply superiour in sound.
@@themusicprofessor Well, I definitely join @Quotenwagenrianer’s comment. To me the sound of the fortepiano maybe be historically correct but it is all but so frustrating. I prefer playing this masterpiece of music on a modern piano.
I'm not for one moment denying the viability of playing Beethoven on modern pianos! I do it myself. I agree that the subsequent development of pianos in the 19th century was partly a response to the challenges that Beethoven's work presented to the technology of the instrument. However, I still think it's important, and interesting, to hear the sonority of the instrument for which the music was originally written.
Awesome performance ❤
I put this on to listen to, but the pawnotes Loki put in mean I have to watch it as well. Several times.
THANK you! ❤
not sure I like it that ferocious, but still thanks. Also ironic we need to call figurations chopinesque instead of calling Chopin fiorituras Beethovenian as it should - he really was the major figure foreshadowing all romantic composers no matter how much they wanted to call him rude or whatever...
Yes - there is an explanation of all this in the original video on the first movement: th-cam.com/video/HXBkrm-4M-w/w-d-xo.htmlsi=nJhmEazUoowzJZPT&t=1214
This was marvellous thankyou! How was the pedalling different to that you’d perform on a modern pianoforte? Did you perform as per the original pedalling marks?
Yes - there is an explanation in the original video on the first movement: th-cam.com/video/Ejsh-NZCWm8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=G9xx0E_AyhT_SBu1
I like the 3rd movement on the piano better
Me too. Beethoven would have loved the advances and power of today's pianos.
That's the reason why we shouldn't play Blavet's flute music on a Boehm-like flute but on a copy of a one-keyed wooden flute from 18th century.
I can't help feeling that this instrument sounds something between a toy piano and an upright suitably out of tune for honky tonk. Possibly a little unkind, but I i have to admit to preferring the sound of modern pianos.
I’m with you on that. I could never understand the preference that some people have for period instruments, which I find interesting only for historical purposes. Overall, to me the strings sound scratchy, the wind instruments nasal, and the keyboards tinny. I’ve spoken to a small number of people who prefer the period instruments, and when I mention my objections, they invariably say, “Well, this is how the actual composers and audiences heard the music originally,” to which I reply, “How unfortunate for them.” Really, when you consider it, why were changes made to instruments? They were made as improvements. Composers, instrumentalists, and instrument makers themselves were dissatisfied with how the instruments sounded and felt the sounds needed to be improved. We now have the fruits of their labors. Although I found listening to this piece interesting, I too would much prefer it played on a good modern piano. If to some that makes me a philistine, so be it. I’ve been called worse.
it feels like Beethoven performed it himself
That haunting second theme in B major…
Yes. It is haunting. It's really E minor - the B major chord is V of Em.
Agh, that first movement needs much more delicacy.
thats what we’re used to hearing lol
@@platedpen that's what beethoven explicitly instructed.
Yes, too fast and too loud here
@@peter5.056 beethoven is dead. you can play however you want
@@Tuco-js there ya go finally a sensible person
Two unskippable ads two measures before the end of the 1st movement. Thanks TH-cam!
I could use less rubato and delayed downbeats.
This opened with 2 commercials, then 1 minute 59 seconds in, broke for another commercial. Indefensible, @TH-cam.
...I'm so sorry.
Get an ad blocker. Not rocket science.
I recorded it on a fortepiano!
13:07 Chopinesque!
Yes!! See original video: th-cam.com/video/HXBkrm-4M-w/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1i24rKcyRivG2YmB&t=1216
What instrument is this played on? That will give us a good idea of judging the tonality of the instrument. Is this a broadwood or other English instrument? It certainly does not sound Viennese
Broadwood? Erard? Year?
Any details of the forte piano?
Wait I thought the repeat in sonata form was compulsory ?? Anyway very nice playing
Not compulsory. Very much a performer's choice (as so many things are in music!) In this instance, I had use of the fortepiano for an hour and I had to get through it fast!
@@themusicprofessor oh I see thanks
😊
A thought just came to my mind - could Schubert have been thinking of this when writing the Impromptu Op 90 No 3? In terms of the texture?
Beethoven influenced Schubert profoundly. However, the texture in Op. 90 no. 3 reminds me more of Schubert's own song accompaniments.
❤
Is that piano in tune?
It's a fortepiano (a piano from Beethoven's era). The tuning is different from modern tuning (not equal temperament).
@@themusicprofessor sure! Thanks. But between the same strings it seems to me that some are reverbing (like out of tune).
Ce tempo e asta? Allegro????? Asta e o luna nebuna, nu e ceva normal!
Thank you for this video, especially for the footage! Having said this, I don’t believe that Beethoven would be satisfied with the sound of a fortepiano whilst his music sounds so much better on a modern piano. To my ears a fortepiano sounds always a bit out of tune. On top of that its dynamic is very limited. A modern piano offers so much more possibilities to adequately play Beethoven’s music which was intended for the best instruments yet to come.
I might be misattributing but IIRC Professor may have mentioned in another video that Beethoven also wasn’t satisfied with the lack of lower bass keys. I agree with you Beethoven would have loved modern instruments, as suggested by Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure
The fortepiano is the instrument Beethoven wrote for. I understand why listeners who are used to the more uniform sound and tuning of the modern Steinway prefer it. But I think it's anachronistic conjecture to assume that composers would have preferred the modern Steinway. Beethoven would no doubt have been amazed by the modern piano but he would probably have been troubled by the fact that it irons out some of his compositional intentions (the instruction to play "without mutes" in the first movement - for example. Of course the Steinway is a magnificent instrument, but once you get used to the sonority of the fortepiano, it's a magical sound and much of its subtlety and richness of resonance is lost on modern instruments.
@@themusicprofessor Well, I doubt that Beethoven wrote for the fortepiano, he rather wrote for an instrument that did not exist yet and the closest he got was the fortepiano. What I definitely don’t like about these instruments: they always sound as if they were out of tune and the sound is too thin. I definitely prefer my Yamaha CF6.
@@oliverpeters7485what do you mean by "out of tune"? To Beethoven, hearing the tuning that you are used to hearing would sound "out of tune" to him, or at the very least, very unusual. So think of it not as being "out of tune", but as "played in a different accent"
@@charlesgaskell5899 Even if a fortepiano is tuned well tempered, the tuning varies with the intensity you hit the key. This is not the case with a modern piano. That’s why the fortepiano appears to be out of tune.
beethoven 2025 = ( )
The "fortepiano" is an awful instrument. It always sounds out of tune, because it always is. Give me a modern, concert piano, Steinway, Fazioli, any time!
People can argue all they want about the tempo of this piece, and there's merit to both sides of the argument but for me personally when people play it like they're in a hurry to get somewhere like this, it always loses a little something.
He had Adhd and Bipolar(couldn't sit still) and he wrote this🤔
This contraption sounds like a joke, but then some car buffs get a kick out of driving a model T.
He plays it with a modern technique; and as such it sounds a shambles.
The fortepiano is being treated like a modern instrument... a much lighter touch must be used.
Beethoven broke quite a few strings on his fortepianos. No doubt he was playing with "a modern technique".
@@themusicprofessor does that make Beethoven's technique aspirationally modern?😄
As for some of the comments, and as a non-performing non-professional music listener, I am a little irritated by those people of superior knowledge saying a particular performance is not correct, or, more blatantly, asserting their personal preference is more correct. There are musical fashions and performers change. To my mind the performer has a say in how they are going to interpret the composer's work and I get to hear the result. I don't see this as a business of right to wrong. The performer is not a slavish automaton of the composer required to render the music exactly as inscribed. We listeners get to appreciate the results of this collaboration of performer and composer. It is even more interesting when the performer explains what they intended to achieve.
So, rant complete - thank you Professor (and Loki) for a very enjoyable and educational performance, please continue. I can't possibly follow everything done and said but I do very much enjoy your efforts.
@@themusicprofessor I like your work very much, and I have no doubt of your skill and understanding of music... but that was quite a foolish statement. Beethoven was an 18th century student and played on the clavichord in particular right until his death (see an anecdote from his nephew about tuning his clavichord in 1825). In this case, his playing would absolutely not be of a 'modern technique'. Also, I would imagine a deaf man would break a few strings in some effort to hear what he played, but this latter statement is totally a personal assumption.
interesting, but sloppy performance, especially third part
@@gerritmalego3116 thanks!
👎👎👎 Tempo tres rapid! Pas possible!
Uh...nah fam
I'm pretty sure this is the same set of recordings you've posted before, so I'll skip it. The background noise is just too disruptive. I'm not even bothered by the honest mistakes, it's the entirely avoidable mic placement that just makes it unlistenable. Really very disappointing, and I dearly hope you get another chance to perform this again with a better recording.
Fine. NB all of our videos take time and effort to make outside of our busy schedules. They are distributed to viewers free of charge and made on a very low budget which does not currently extend to expensive recording equipment, studios etc. However, generous donations are always welcome!
It should played slower and much drier than that.
I'd argue that the tempo should be taken a tad faster.
The first movement is clearly an operatic aria. (alla mozart's death of the commendatore from Don Giovanni)
The triplets must be treated as an accompaniment figure, not the foreground.
@@gammafoxlore2981 It is played at about 66 bpm, which is right at the upper end of adagio, the marking given by Beethoven. But it is not the tempo per se that bugs me so much as the incessent rhubato, which to me is too melodramatic. A steady beat would have improved this performance no matter what the tempo.
@@ronrice1931 It shouldn't be any slower than this. 66bpm is probably the slowest you'd want to go considering this is 66bpm to the QUARTER note… meanwhile the time signature is CLEARLY marked "alla breve," so the HALF note is getting the count, so it should instead be felt as 33bpm to the half note.
Furthermore, Beethoven actually wanted this to be played with the pedal down the entire time, as the Italian is clearly states right under the tempo marking.
@@PianistTanooki Well I guess I disagree with Beethoven. In any case, it's not the sustain pedal I object to, it's the rubato, as I say.
Sounds like shroders playing it on his toy piano. Also, too fast.
Thanks god piano evolve... I don't like this sound that much, I mean, compared to modern pianos. In a spacious place sounds a lot better. However I enjoyed the performance, it has a unusual passion, the mistakes are not serious and the passion and musicality was there
Much of the problem with sound is simply that we used a single quite primitive microphone for this recording. But I'm glad some musicality comes through!