Always very moved by this finale. To me it is a metaphor of the inner quiet longing of the human being, our innate wish to be more than just a human body with ordinary lives, eventually dying, with no real meaning nor purpose in life. The “magic” and circus and fantasy that he is offered here is the “escape” from this mundane existence; and I love that in the end the protagonist chooses the only thing that is real in the story, his connection with the girl and his kid, and turns away from more “glorious” and extraordinary paths, because he knows that, in the end, they are fake and finite, while the love he feels for another human being is real, eternal, and his only link that connects him with god and love and purpose. It is the story of growing up, really, and becoming a man, by leaving the fantasy world. Or maybe it is just a joke by Bob Fosse, and it has no deeper meaning. Anyway, that s my take on this.
Paul Zenco did you know it originally ended like this with just ‘trapped’ and reviews were bad and then they added ‘but happy’ and then it was popular? Two little words changed the perception of it all. I don’t think those are needed however, because it’s saying the temptation of infinite possibilities is overwhelming and by trapping yourself in one existence you are also freeing yourself. We humans only have one life and that is what leads to an extraordinary existence. Your happiness isn’t really dependent on what you ultimately do but in being satisfied in whatever moment you find yourself in. In fact you may not always be happy, but it’s better than tormenting yourself with the grass on another hill. Pippin is really tough to contemplate. It’s not a feel good musical but it’s a necessary pill to swallow. I just hope I can learn this lesson easier than Pippin
@@k.m.186 Actually, "but happy" was in the Roger O. Hirson/Stephen Schwartz script for the play. Bob Fosse removed those words before the production opened, resulting in just ending with Pippin saying "Trapped!" before the curtain closes. This was in line with Fosse's darker take on the material. Schwartz ensured "but happy" was in the script licensed for theatre productions later.
It's kind of ironic Bob Fosse, who's legacy by now is being almost the deity of everything show/musical/theater-bizz - always remained firmly on the 'circus/carnival" side of life. All that Jazz is almost like the flip side of Pippin, where the character always tries to make connections with his wife/ex-wife/ child/ lover.....but in the end Show/Death is the more exciting siren call. I know a lot of theater/arts-people have learned to balance out their lives a lot better - living in the best of both worlds. Can be done. And maybe in some way they learned this trick thanx to shows/ movies like Pippin/ Cabaret/Sweet Charity/Chicago/All That Jazz/ Lenny / Star 80.....all of them have this theme running through it.
$25 a seat!!!!!!!! Those were the days. Pippin is indeed a very dark show, and fortunately Ben Vereen, Chita Rivera and William Katt knew to how to mine the seriousness of this piece, while making it all seem very light. I love this show.
I saw PIPPIN one year into its original run. Ben Vereen and John Rubinstein were still in it, but the cast now included Priscilla Lopez as Fastrada, Betty Buckley as Catherine and Dorothy Stickney as Berthe. Third row, smack center Orchestra. Seat (full price) $10. Okay, it was a Wednesday matinee. Still, a great show.
I saw John Rubinstein (I was 10), but I can't diss William Katt here. The silent work he does as we build toward the climax, and we can see Pippin starting to sell himself on the idea, taking a hit when he actually has the torch in his hand, then trying to regain his momentum, until he ultimately can't take that final step, is just excellent. MUCH better than whomever in the revival, who mostly looks scared he'll fall off of the set, thinks the Players are crazy, and never considers the idea for even a split-second. Well done, "Mr. H." I also think "the Theo ending' is just stupid. Who gaf about THEO, after all? This is Pippin's journey…and thus all of ours. Trying to pull sympathy to a one-dimensional "cute kid" loses all the momentum. And…not to be politically incorrect, but I have real problems with a female Leading Player. The LP is an avatar for Pippin, smooth and settled and confident, and I just don't think that works as well with a female. Too close to being another Fastrada…just a temptress, rather than the demon inside Pippin's own head. JMO.
@@buf4wil Very insightful. I saw the show with Paula Kelly as the Leading Player (in a touring production). That was the first time I saw the show live -- I loved her in the role -- and she nailed it. (Because I tend to be more like Ben Vereen, I have a great empathy for a male Leading Player though.) I've done the role 3 times, and I must admit that the older I have become, the more I see the darkness in the piece, and I like playing "bad guys." LOL!!!!. (One of my objections to the new show was that I felt that it lacked the seriousness I had come to expect from the show. )
@@buf4wil Thank you!!! So glad to find like minded people. May one day Schwartz wise up and allow the original version (what you see here) be available for licensing and I will be able to achieve my dream of playing Leading Player with the brilliant material Ben Vereen had.
I've seen this a million times and only recently noted that line. It seems to imply that the whole show was inside of Pippin's head and that he finally discovered that life isn't about being extraordinary if you're not. It's just about being happy.
Exactly. In many respects, "Pippin" is a modern version of a medieval morality play in which the protagonist who symbolizes humanity must resist the temptations offered to him by a demonic antagonist so that he will not be condemned to Hell. The Leading Player has all along encouraged Pippin to experiment with several of the Seven Deadly Sins -- Pride, Gluttony, Lust, Wrath, etc. -- ostensibly with the goal of helping him find the fulfillment he seeks but in reality with the intent of leaving Pippin unsatisfied and disillusioned so that he will be willing to provide the Leading Player with a Grand Finale by going out in a literal blaze of glory. Love saves him at the end.
That’s been changed in the new version according to Schwartz. Now the players are actually real and they’re always looking to find the next Pippin. We may never see this show have the same “glory” as it did here because Schwartz refuses to let anyone do this version of the show.
@@re-huvane5622 no, the players aren't actually real in any version. the new ending means that the cycle will repeat for theo, and he will be enticed by the players in his head as well. the players have always been looking for new pippins, like in the finale here, they look through the audience. but they're still metaphorical in all versions :)
@@ella-gz4fj Stephen Schwartz himself said that the players are real. Also, ending is redundant and obscenely pretentious if you ask me. There’s nothing of importance brought to the show Theo repeating the same “mistakes” that pippin makes. And he doesn’t make mistakes, he just fails or doesn’t find satisfaction in whatever he tries to do. The one thing he succeeds is a normal life with a wife and step son. He has to accept where life brings him. The original ending is perfection and the new ending only exists because of a UK fringe production that because of strict child labor laws they got a 15 year old to play the role of Theo and the producers wanted to give him his little “moment” in the show and then some bullshit meaning is assigned to it and the whole show and what it had to say is now forever ruined. No production will be as be as good as the original if they are not able to use the original 1972 libretto. Hell, you could have the original cast with Ben Vereen and Irene Ryan but with the new libretto, it would no only be shit but also horrifically underwhelming leading to anger over what they could be performing.
I saw this show about four times and the staging was just incredible. I was stunned and awed by it each time. Thank you, Bob Fosse and thank you, Tony Walton for your wonderful set design. Something else altogether.
Also, I don’t know why, but I think I’d be really entertained if someone did a comparison video of the Leading Player performing that one line. Ben Vereen does a happy masked passive aggressive sort of walk and tone, Patina Miller and Sasha Ellen(from national tour of the 2013 revival) are just pissed and boiling like as if she would outright strangle the musical director(the aforementioned keyboardist) if he/she/they didn’t listen, Ciara Rene did her own spin on Vereen’s passive aggressiveness by being more “hey, what are doing there feller” with her mannerisms and smile, and so on and so forth. I myself imagine doing a performance where I initially was about to speak to Pippin, only to slowly stop and smile tightly before I head to keyboardist to say the line like Ciara does but almost boiling like Patina at the end, then dropping my “happy demeanor” and mouthing a “thank you” and look out at the audience with a plane dull frown before walking backwards to Pippin and continuing from there. I don’t know, just some things I’ve been thinking from the many ways that one line can be performed. Also, I’m not an actor, though I might consider becoming one when I do my own shows(as a composer/lyricist/playwright/orchestrator) someday, so there I guess. 😐
I love how Ben Vereen plays LP. It's incredible watching him fall apart in the end. When he starts "Think About the Sun" we see him glancing at Pippin between his lines just to see if he's getting a reaction. Then the short duet with Chita is fantastic. She sings slightly off key to add to the impression that these are just some amateur performers who aren't necessarily talented but have one great act, which is in jeopardy here. The revival seems so much more professional and I think that takes away from the atmosphere. The growing desperation that LP shows is really something. We see this building through the Catherine section and it just blows up at the end. I wish "I Guess I'll Miss the Man" was on here as it shows a couple more interactions between Catherine and LP. Strange that it's not, since this appears to take so much from the so-called "Fosse Cut" but then it leaves that song out.
"The revival seems so much more professional and I think that takes away from the atmosphere." YES. I agree 100%. There's something charming about this atmosphere and Ben Vereen's performance was spectacular.
It also suggests that this part of the act isn't as well-rehearsed as the rest of the show. Presumably, other extraordinary stars haven't needed this much coaxing and they're kinda winging it.
Love how the two strongest dancers-Rivera and Vereen-mirror each other; she moves in front, he moves behind, she moves out, he moves in, and vice-versa. Also how her voice overpowers his as they duet, slowly revealing they’re working together.
I LOVE the little duet. It shows the evilness of both characters, both so determined to get Pippin to kill himself and I’d argue they’re the most evil characters in the show. Unfortunately, in the new version, Fraustra is replaced with Lewis for this little duet.
Ben Vereen looks like he’s whispering something to Pippin - not just singing - when he hands him the torch at 12:35. Casting the spell. Such amazing acting.
The uptempo beat rocks the fuck out of this! How it should be done. It gets so frantic and crazy, just like they're trying to whip him into a frenzy. Also Ben Vereen's delivery of the monologue is revelatory. Talk about turning just-decent material into something transcendant.
I love the way in which there are echoes of "On The Right Track" in the choreographed interactions between Pippin and The Leading Player beginning at 12:02. During the entire show, Pippin has trusted and to at least some extent been dependent on the Leading Player and this is what makes it somewhat difficult for Pippin to resist the Leading Player despite the revelation of the Leading Player's betrayal and deception and treachery and the realization that the Leading Player wants him to take his own life.
I've got to say, after listening to the original soundtrack, it doesn't do justice for the stage version. The soundtracks are usually that way, but it REALLY didn't do justice for Ben's voice.
Okay but I still think the theo ending is better. It's a realistic dark twist that you don't expect. That's the reality of our generation's patterns. The temptation is always there. It shows that even though you can survive breaking out of your demons, the cycle still repeats. In the end, we know that theo will have to endure the same mental battle someday, but the musical shows that it's possible to come out on the other end. A fantastic improvement.
You know what………….. I’m not gonna lie, no matter how many times I repeat your marking, it REALLY DOES sound like he did! XD Seemingly VERY in character, still, I must say with how he performed it. 😂
After further looking up the early scripts of this show, I can confirm that the line is actually "Oh for Christ's sake......." But yeah, it still sounds like he dropped an f bomb here, regardless. xD
Pippin (at least Fosse’s version) is not a show for kids…at all. If you do a little searching you can find the Fosse cut and you’ll see other vulgar or outright sinister moments, especially the full version of Spread a Little Sunshine. I don’t wanna ruin it though.
Was watching the NEW revival, and was like, are you kidding me, this is a classic, nothing better then Ben and Chita, William Katt was amazing as well. There are times you can't remake classics...
Unfortunately, Schwartz refuses to allow this version of the show to be performed so we’re damn lucky to have this. Also, if you do a little searching you can find the “Fosse cut” which includes everything that was cut out of the official release.
The first of the three times I saw this, all with Ben Vereen, I was in the stage right box with a group of Little Theatre friends from Pennsylvania, and they tried to push me over the railing onto the stage when a cast member was hanging from the proscenium in our faces in this finale. I’m totally serious. “Cooler heads prevailed” ( mine). Oy.
This is how you end this show! Leading player is not able to present "the grand finale" he promised. In the process of trying to convince Pippin, he does achieves a musical finale or sorts, but in the end he still failed. When Leading Player takes away the world that he gave to Pippin, from the sets, to the costumes, to even the orchestra and the only thing left is Pippin and his family. He now has to face the of harsh reality of an ordinary life to which he acknowledges and accepts. The ending is great because it completes absurdist nature of the show and harkens back to the style of Samuel Beckett. The new "Theo ending" is too sensationalist, too melodramatic, too depressing, too sinister, and makes the players seem way too demonic. They become absolutely unlikable as they are going to try to convince a kid to kill himself for their own selfish desire for a grand finale. Nobody can tell me that this is an ending that leaves you coming out of the theater saying gee, what an uplifting ending! If it does, then you must REALLY hate kids, and have a cruel sense of happiness. The reason it exists is because there was a fringe production of the show in the 90's in the UK and because the child labor laws are really strict, they had to cast a teenager who was 15 years old. So they decided to make the character more edgy, giving him foul language, despite him still having the relationship with the duck that is similar to that of an 5 to 8 year old child. Mitch Sebastian decided to attempt to make Theo seem more relevant (I guess because of the actors age, they wanted to give him a "bigger role), so he gave him this horrible ending that has been overhyped to no end. Considering that there are many 15 year olds that look younger and haven't gone entirely through puberty, I think it would have been best to find a teenager like that and have him act like a little kid. Even though we know that he is not 8 years old, we can still suspend are disbelief in the same way we do for shows like Peter Pan, You're a Good Man Charlie Brown, and The 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee. If they can do it with Mary Martin, then they can do it with a 15 year old boy who has barely gone through puberty. Stephen Schwartz has made a huge deal out of this ridiculous ending because he thinks "the the old ending was boring". John Rubenstein (the original Pippin) was outraged when he saw it in 2012. From and interview from Broadway Box, when promoting the new 2013 revival, he said that "[he compares the old ending] to the end of the film The Graduate, where Dustin Hoffman and Katharine Ross are sitting there in the back of the bus after they've defeated the powers that worked against them throughout the whole movie; now they are finally together, they got what they wanted and they are staring vacantly ahead saying, ‘Now what?’ And that was sort of the end of Pippin-having gone through trials and tribulations and love affairs, he finally defeats those powers of darkness and looks ahead and says, ‘I don't know what’s coming but I’m ok with it because the three of us together have a strength and we can meet our future." But his opinion on this new ending was that "If [he] had seen it as an audience member [he'd] say, ‘Oh, that's what this show is about. No matter who does what in this world, who learns a lesson, there’s always another coming around the pike who is going to go for the brass ring and be corrupted. He confronted Stephen about it at a performance of Wicked asking him "what did you do to Pippin?", to which Stephen smugly respond to the man who originated the role, "‘Oh John, you’re so sentimental". He later says that he was told by Diane Paulus (the director of the 2013 Broadway revival) why this ending is "better" and he "bought it", yet he didn't say what he told her. I wonder if he's still angry about it, but the show is work, he enjoys it for the most part, and he doesn't want to burn any bridges. And I feel that nowadays on broadway, people are afraid to burn bridges. I also feel that Stephen Schwartz is still bitter about Fosse's changes. He released the 2000's revision of the show, which "restored" fosse lines, saying that the older he gets, the wiser he and more cynical he gets which makes him "appreciate" Fosse's changes to the origin script. But in the end this "revision" has barely any of fosse's lines, and revises way more of the original script than fosse ever did, and these new lines can be quite awkward if not down right cringe worthy. And he has even gone as far as to tell people, if they don't like the ending, then they shouldn't do the show at all. As if the ending is the most important part of the show. HE IS THE GEORGE LUCAS OF BROADWAY...but without all the awards :p
It should be noted that Stephen Schwartz actually mocked a women who wrote to him saying that she was horrified at the new ending and that she wished they could do the old one. Her daughter was playing Theo and the whole idea of the character killing himself was a shock to her as she had done the ending prior to the 2000's revision and when the script had the old ending. He told her that he thought the ending was uplifting, and said that she must have never consider suicide, but surely her daughter has (like he knows) as his children have too. What if this women's daughter had attempted suicide in the past who they were close to somebody who did? Sometimes, it's best not to respond to people who write angry letters.
I think there is beauty in the Theo ending. While yes, Theo is about to go down the same road, he also has the chance to make the same decision Pippin did. I view it as a message that there are some mistakes every generation makes, but every generation also has the potential to right them. You can’t always learn through the mistakes of others, sometimes you have to make them yourself.
@@QueenRedRosemary I disagree. The show is about expectations vs. reality. That things can't always turn the way you planned. Pippin doesn't make mistakes, he's just destined to fail. It was inevitable. But in end, Pippin accepts his fate of being an average Joe with a wife and child. But how does he feel about it? He's trapped! It is what is! Now how do YOU, the audience feel about that? You all might end up like Pippin or already are like Pippin. Some things are just not meant to be. Life's unfair! You came to escape musical comedy to escape having thinking about all this. Instead you enjoyed someone struggling with it. But guess what? The show's over ya schmucks! Time to go back to thinking about it! But hopefully you have a different perspective on it now. That's the original ending, I think it's brilliant and is, along with the whole, based of the estrangement effect from Brecht's Epic Theatre.
@@QueenRedRosemary The new ending is nothing than an overhyped, unnecessary, and ultimately destructive tableau. It's very eerie, and yes it's "thematic", but it misses the point and it does not work with the show at all, no matter how hard Schwartz may try to make it do so. THEO IS TOO YOUNG and Schwartz knows this! Making him 15 years old does not make him at ready for the journey. Pippin's journey is that of 18 year old. Some one who is going off to college/leaving the nest! The message that's put in there is just an excuse for it to be done. It does nothing for the story nor does it make sense! Pippin is NOT Theo's father and his barely stepfather! He's his mothers boyfriend! Theo's just starting to accept him. Also, you cannot make Theo 15 years olds by having him say "Bite Me" or other swears. KIDS OF ALL AGES SWEAR!!! Theo will always be 8 years old and should never be any age older! He was written to be a little boy, not a teen! He's there to be a challenge to Pippin because he has to get him to like him! Theo is irritating as hell at first, but when Pippin win's him over and then he really is cute and lovable, as Leading Player claimed prior. That's super important! That's one of a very victories in a sea of failures! Did you notice the minute Leading Player starts screaming that he's "gonna be whining 24 hours a day", Pippin immediately picks him up instinctually. Pippin is protecting him from that demonic song and dance man, and Theo is essentially protecting Pippin as well from that same lunatic, because he's helping Pippin find his true Corner of the Sky .This is Pippin growing up! Thinking about somebody other than himself. He loves this kid and his mother! That's Theo's purpose, giving Pippin a purpose to LIVE! HE AND HIS MOTHER STOP HIM FROM KILLING HIMSELF! If you go with that understanding of the character, whether he's 8 or 15 years old and theninclude then new ending...DEAR GOD!!! NO! NO! NO! NO! GET AWAY FROM HIM! NO! PIPPIN NEED'S HIM...AND HE'S JUST KID! YOU DEMONIC PERVERTS FROM HELL!!! Can somebody say PREDATORS? Now both Pippin and Cathrine have PURPOSE in KILLING THEMSELVES. So can they JOIN Theo IN THE SKY! Yeah there's no beauty in this ending! THIS IS HORRIFICALLY DARK!
Always very moved by this finale.
To me it is a metaphor of the inner quiet longing of the human being, our innate wish to be more than just a human body with ordinary lives, eventually dying, with no real meaning nor purpose in life.
The “magic” and circus and fantasy that he is offered here is the “escape” from this mundane existence; and I love that in the end the protagonist chooses the only thing that is real in the story, his connection with the girl and his kid, and turns away from more “glorious” and extraordinary paths, because he knows that, in the end, they are fake and finite, while the love he feels for another human being is real, eternal, and his only link that connects him with god and love and purpose.
It is the story of growing up, really, and becoming a man, by leaving the fantasy world.
Or maybe it is just a joke by Bob Fosse, and it has no deeper meaning.
Anyway, that s my take on this.
Paul Zenco did you know it originally ended like this with just ‘trapped’ and reviews were bad and then they added ‘but happy’ and then it was popular? Two little words changed the perception of it all. I don’t think those are needed however, because it’s saying the temptation of infinite possibilities is overwhelming and by trapping yourself in one existence you are also freeing yourself. We humans only have one life and that is what leads to an extraordinary existence. Your happiness isn’t really dependent on what you ultimately do but in being satisfied in whatever moment you find yourself in. In fact you may not always be happy, but it’s better than tormenting yourself with the grass on another hill. Pippin is really tough to contemplate. It’s not a feel good musical but it’s a necessary pill to swallow. I just hope I can learn this lesson easier than Pippin
@@k.m.186 Actually, "but happy" was in the Roger O. Hirson/Stephen Schwartz script for the play. Bob Fosse removed those words before the production opened, resulting in just ending with Pippin saying "Trapped!" before the curtain closes. This was in line with Fosse's darker take on the material. Schwartz ensured "but happy" was in the script licensed for theatre productions later.
It's kind of ironic Bob Fosse, who's legacy by now is being almost the deity of everything show/musical/theater-bizz - always remained firmly on the 'circus/carnival" side of life. All that Jazz is almost like the flip side of Pippin, where the character always tries to make connections with his wife/ex-wife/ child/ lover.....but in the end Show/Death is the more exciting siren call.
I know a lot of theater/arts-people have learned to balance out their lives a lot better - living in the best of both worlds. Can be done.
And maybe in some way they learned this trick thanx to shows/ movies like Pippin/ Cabaret/Sweet Charity/Chicago/All That Jazz/ Lenny / Star 80.....all of them have this theme running through it.
$25 a seat!!!!!!!! Those were the days. Pippin is indeed a very dark show, and fortunately Ben Vereen, Chita Rivera and William Katt knew to how to mine the seriousness of this piece, while making it all seem very light. I love this show.
I saw PIPPIN one year into its original run. Ben Vereen and John Rubinstein were still in it, but the cast now included Priscilla Lopez as Fastrada, Betty Buckley as Catherine and Dorothy Stickney as Berthe. Third row, smack center Orchestra. Seat (full price) $10. Okay, it was a Wednesday matinee. Still, a great show.
I saw John Rubinstein (I was 10), but I can't diss William Katt here. The silent work he does as we build toward the climax, and we can see Pippin starting to sell himself on the idea, taking a hit when he actually has the torch in his hand, then trying to regain his momentum, until he ultimately can't take that final step, is just excellent. MUCH better than whomever in the revival, who mostly looks scared he'll fall off of the set, thinks the Players are crazy, and never considers the idea for even a split-second. Well done, "Mr. H."
I also think "the Theo ending' is just stupid. Who gaf about THEO, after all? This is Pippin's journey…and thus all of ours. Trying to pull sympathy to a one-dimensional "cute kid" loses all the momentum.
And…not to be politically incorrect, but I have real problems with a female Leading Player. The LP is an avatar for Pippin, smooth and settled and confident, and I just don't think that works as well with a female. Too close to being another Fastrada…just a temptress, rather than the demon inside Pippin's own head. JMO.
@@buf4wil Very insightful. I saw the show with Paula Kelly as the Leading Player (in a touring production). That was the first time I saw the show live -- I loved her in the role -- and she nailed it. (Because I tend to be more like Ben Vereen, I have a great empathy for a male Leading Player though.) I've done the role 3 times, and I must admit that the older I have become, the more I see the darkness in the piece, and I like playing "bad guys." LOL!!!!. (One of my objections to the new show was that I felt that it lacked the seriousness I had come to expect from the show. )
@@MrReggieLew wow. I wish I coulda seen Paula Kelly as the LP.
@@buf4wil Thank you!!! So glad to find like minded people. May one day Schwartz wise up and allow the original version (what you see here) be available for licensing and I will be able to achieve my dream of playing Leading Player with the brilliant material Ben Vereen had.
Few people can write a song so happy and bouncy and at the same time so fucking creepy.
It’s one of the greatest finale’s in my opinion.
@@re-huvane5622I agree 💯
I have been living with the players for the past 50 years....
It never gets old 🙂
I love the way Ben's voice gets so cold when he says, " when you do it it'll be for real."
“We are right inside your head” . They are the voices in your head.
I've seen this a million times and only recently noted that line. It seems to imply that the whole show was inside of Pippin's head and that he finally discovered that life isn't about being extraordinary if you're not. It's just about being happy.
Exactly. In many respects, "Pippin" is a modern version of a medieval morality play in which the protagonist who symbolizes humanity must resist the temptations offered to him by a demonic antagonist so that he will not be condemned to Hell. The Leading Player has all along encouraged Pippin to experiment with several of the Seven Deadly Sins -- Pride, Gluttony, Lust, Wrath, etc. -- ostensibly with the goal of helping him find the fulfillment he seeks but in reality with the intent of leaving Pippin unsatisfied and disillusioned so that he will be willing to provide the Leading Player with a Grand Finale by going out in a literal blaze of glory. Love saves him at the end.
That’s been changed in the new version according to Schwartz. Now the players are actually real and they’re always looking to find the next Pippin. We may never see this show have the same “glory” as it did here because Schwartz refuses to let anyone do this version of the show.
@@re-huvane5622 no, the players aren't actually real in any version. the new ending means that the cycle will repeat for theo, and he will be enticed by the players in his head as well. the players have always been looking for new pippins, like in the finale here, they look through the audience. but they're still metaphorical in all versions :)
@@ella-gz4fj Stephen Schwartz himself said that the players are real. Also, ending is redundant and obscenely pretentious if you ask me. There’s nothing of importance brought to the show Theo repeating the same “mistakes” that pippin makes. And he doesn’t make mistakes, he just fails or doesn’t find satisfaction in whatever he tries to do. The one thing he succeeds is a normal life with a wife and step son. He has to accept where life brings him. The original ending is perfection and the new ending only exists because of a UK fringe production that because of strict child labor laws they got a 15 year old to play the role of Theo and the producers wanted to give him his little “moment” in the show and then some bullshit meaning is assigned to it and the whole show and what it had to say is now forever ruined. No production will be as be as good as the original if they are not able to use the original 1972 libretto. Hell, you could have the original cast with Ben Vereen and Irene Ryan but with the new libretto, it would no only be shit but also horrifically underwhelming leading to anger over what they could be performing.
I saw this show about four times and the staging was just incredible. I was stunned and awed by it each time. Thank you, Bob Fosse and thank you, Tony Walton for your wonderful set design. Something else altogether.
Take your damn hands of the keyboard
“off”
17:18
Also, I don’t know why, but I think I’d be really entertained if someone did a comparison video of the Leading Player performing that one line.
Ben Vereen does a happy masked passive aggressive sort of walk and tone, Patina Miller and Sasha Ellen(from national tour of the 2013 revival) are just pissed and boiling like as if she would outright strangle the musical director(the aforementioned keyboardist) if he/she/they didn’t listen, Ciara Rene did her own spin on Vereen’s passive aggressiveness by being more “hey, what are doing there feller” with her mannerisms and smile, and so on and so forth.
I myself imagine doing a performance where I initially was about to speak to Pippin, only to slowly stop and smile tightly before I head to keyboardist to say the line like Ciara does but almost boiling like Patina at the end, then dropping my “happy demeanor” and mouthing a “thank you” and look out at the audience with a plane dull frown before walking backwards to Pippin and continuing from there.
I don’t know, just some things I’ve been thinking from the many ways that one line can be performed. Also, I’m not an actor, though I might consider becoming one when I do my own shows(as a composer/lyricist/playwright/orchestrator) someday, so there I guess. 😐
@@michaelwilliamybarra2409 One production I saw had the LP say, "Drums -- beat it," which was fun.
Oooh. I felt something when the Leading Player was talking about the kid and Pippin picked him up.
I love how Ben Vereen plays LP. It's incredible watching him fall apart in the end. When he starts "Think About the Sun" we see him glancing at Pippin between his lines just to see if he's getting a reaction. Then the short duet with Chita is fantastic. She sings slightly off key to add to the impression that these are just some amateur performers who aren't necessarily talented but have one great act, which is in jeopardy here. The revival seems so much more professional and I think that takes away from the atmosphere. The growing desperation that LP shows is really something. We see this building through the Catherine section and it just blows up at the end. I wish "I Guess I'll Miss the Man" was on here as it shows a couple more interactions between Catherine and LP. Strange that it's not, since this appears to take so much from the so-called "Fosse Cut" but then it leaves that song out.
"The revival seems so much more professional and I think that takes away from the atmosphere."
YES. I agree 100%. There's something charming about this atmosphere and Ben Vereen's performance was spectacular.
It also suggests that this part of the act isn't as well-rehearsed as the rest of the show. Presumably, other extraordinary stars haven't needed this much coaxing and they're kinda winging it.
Love how the two strongest dancers-Rivera and Vereen-mirror each other; she moves in front, he moves behind, she moves out, he moves in, and vice-versa. Also how her voice overpowers his as they duet, slowly revealing they’re working together.
Do you notice that she's slightly off key? It seems intentional and adds to the idea that they're just a traveling vaudeville show.
I LOVE the little duet. It shows the evilness of both characters, both so determined to get Pippin to kill himself and I’d argue they’re the most evil characters in the show. Unfortunately, in the new version, Fraustra is replaced with Lewis for this little duet.
Ben Vereen looks like he’s whispering something to Pippin - not just singing - when he hands him the torch at 12:35. Casting the spell. Such amazing acting.
The uptempo beat rocks the fuck out of this! How it should be done. It gets so frantic and crazy, just like they're trying to whip him into a frenzy. Also Ben Vereen's delivery of the monologue is revelatory. Talk about turning just-decent material into something transcendant.
I wish I could have seen this musical. I watch it everytime it comes on.
Chita Rivera high steppin' in those heels! I'd be on the stage in a heap haha. Love this show. Its been one of my favorites since debut!
I love this song. This makes me realize how love is so portamt.
I love the way in which there are echoes of "On The Right Track" in the choreographed interactions between Pippin and The Leading Player beginning at 12:02. During the entire show, Pippin has trusted and to at least some extent been dependent on the Leading Player and this is what makes it somewhat difficult for Pippin to resist the Leading Player despite the revelation of the Leading Player's betrayal and deception and treachery and the realization that the Leading Player wants him to take his own life.
I kind of love the “trapped” line but prefer the new ending
I’m just now learning what Pippin was trying to teach me. But I have plenty of time left 😉
I love this Play really worth it at orange county highs choir of the arts
Thank you for posting this.
I've got to say, after listening to the original soundtrack, it doesn't do justice for the stage version. The soundtracks are usually that way, but it REALLY didn't do justice for Ben's voice.
Yeah Ben sounds why too tame on the recording, here he’s brilliant and giving it his 200%. In general, the soundtrack is too mellow.
“$25 a seat!”
Cries in inflation
AND NO MAGIC
Fuckin love this show
Okay but I still think the theo ending is better. It's a realistic dark twist that you don't expect. That's the reality of our generation's patterns. The temptation is always there. It shows that even though you can survive breaking out of your demons, the cycle still repeats. In the end, we know that theo will have to endure the same mental battle someday, but the musical shows that it's possible to come out on the other end. A fantastic improvement.
This version of the performancrs combined with the new ending would be ideal
Now I am biased because I was Theo in my production but I do agree
10:44 does he say "oh for fucks sake pippin" lol
You know what…………..
I’m not gonna lie, no matter how many times I repeat your marking, it REALLY DOES sound like he did! XD
Seemingly VERY in character, still, I must say with how he performed it. 😂
After further looking up the early scripts of this show, I can confirm that the line is actually "Oh for Christ's sake......."
But yeah, it still sounds like he dropped an f bomb here, regardless. xD
Pippin (at least Fosse’s version) is not a show for kids…at all. If you do a little searching you can find the Fosse cut and you’ll see other vulgar or outright sinister moments, especially the full version of Spread a Little Sunshine. I don’t wanna ruin it though.
It's "for Christ's sake."
Was watching the NEW revival, and was like, are you kidding me, this is a classic, nothing better then Ben and Chita, William Katt was amazing as well. There are times you can't remake classics...
Unfortunately, Schwartz refuses to allow this version of the show to be performed so we’re damn lucky to have this. Also, if you do a little searching you can find the “Fosse cut” which includes everything that was cut out of the official release.
The first of the three times I saw this, all with Ben Vereen, I was in the stage right box with a group of Little Theatre friends from Pennsylvania, and they tried to push me over the railing onto the stage when a cast member was hanging from the proscenium in our faces in this finale. I’m totally serious. “Cooler heads prevailed” ( mine). Oy.
Fuckin Fosse, man.
This is how you end this show! Leading player is not able to present "the grand finale" he promised. In the process of trying to convince Pippin, he does achieves a musical finale or sorts, but in the end he still failed. When Leading Player takes away the world that he gave to Pippin, from the sets, to the costumes, to even the orchestra and the only thing left is Pippin and his family. He now has to face the of harsh reality of an ordinary life to which he acknowledges and accepts. The ending is great because it completes absurdist nature of the show and harkens back to the style of Samuel Beckett. The new "Theo ending" is too sensationalist, too melodramatic, too depressing, too sinister, and makes the players seem way too demonic. They become absolutely unlikable as they are going to try to convince a kid to kill himself for their own selfish desire for a grand finale. Nobody can tell me that this is an ending that leaves you coming out of the theater saying gee, what an uplifting ending! If it does, then you must REALLY hate kids, and have a cruel sense of happiness.
The reason it exists is because there was a fringe production of the show in the 90's in the UK and because the child labor laws are really strict, they had to cast a teenager who was 15 years old. So they decided to make the character more edgy, giving him foul language, despite him still having the relationship with the duck that is similar to that of an 5 to 8 year old child. Mitch Sebastian decided to attempt to make Theo seem more relevant (I guess because of the actors age, they wanted to give him a "bigger role), so he gave him this horrible ending that has been overhyped to no end. Considering that there are many 15 year olds that look younger and haven't gone entirely through puberty, I think it would have been best to find a teenager like that and have him act like a little kid. Even though we know that he is not 8 years old, we can still suspend are disbelief in the same way we do for shows like Peter Pan, You're a Good Man Charlie Brown, and The 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee. If they can do it with Mary Martin, then they can do it with a 15 year old boy who has barely gone through puberty.
Stephen Schwartz has made a huge deal out of this ridiculous ending because he thinks "the the old ending was boring". John Rubenstein (the original Pippin) was outraged when he saw it in 2012. From and interview from Broadway Box, when promoting the new 2013 revival, he said that "[he compares the old ending] to the end of the film The Graduate, where Dustin Hoffman and Katharine Ross are sitting there in the back of the bus after they've defeated the powers that worked against them throughout the whole movie; now they are finally together, they got what they wanted and they are staring vacantly ahead saying, ‘Now what?’ And that was sort of the end of Pippin-having gone through trials and tribulations and love affairs, he finally defeats those powers of darkness and looks ahead and says, ‘I don't know what’s coming but I’m ok with it because the three of us together have a strength and we can meet our future." But his opinion on this new ending was that "If [he] had seen it as an audience member [he'd] say, ‘Oh, that's what this show is about. No matter who does what in this world, who learns a lesson, there’s always another coming around the pike who is going to go for the brass ring and be corrupted. He confronted Stephen about it at a performance of Wicked asking him "what did you do to Pippin?", to which Stephen smugly respond to the man who originated the role, "‘Oh John, you’re so sentimental". He later says that he was told by Diane Paulus (the director of the 2013 Broadway revival) why this ending is "better" and he "bought it", yet he didn't say what he told her. I wonder if he's still angry about it, but the show is work, he enjoys it for the most part, and he doesn't want to burn any bridges. And I feel that nowadays on broadway, people are afraid to burn bridges. I also feel that Stephen Schwartz is still bitter about Fosse's changes. He released the 2000's revision of the show, which "restored" fosse lines, saying that the older he gets, the wiser he and more cynical he gets which makes him "appreciate" Fosse's changes to the origin script. But in the end this "revision" has barely any of fosse's lines, and revises way more of the original script than fosse ever did, and these new lines can be quite awkward if not down right cringe worthy. And he has even gone as far as to tell people, if they don't like the ending, then they shouldn't do the show at all. As if the ending is the most important part of the show. HE IS THE GEORGE LUCAS OF BROADWAY...but without all the awards :p
It should be noted that Stephen Schwartz actually mocked a women who wrote to him saying that she was horrified at the new ending and that she wished they could do the old one. Her daughter was playing Theo and the whole idea of the character killing himself was a shock to her as she had done the ending prior to the 2000's revision and when the script had the old ending. He told her that he thought the ending was uplifting, and said that she must have never consider suicide, but surely her daughter has (like he knows) as his children have too. What if this women's daughter had attempted suicide in the past who they were close to somebody who did? Sometimes, it's best not to respond to people who write angry letters.
Re-hu Vane Has
I think there is beauty in the Theo ending. While yes, Theo is about to go down the same road, he also has the chance to make the same decision Pippin did. I view it as a message that there are some mistakes every generation makes, but every generation also has the potential to right them. You can’t always learn through the mistakes of others, sometimes you have to make them yourself.
@@QueenRedRosemary I disagree. The show is about expectations vs. reality. That things can't always turn the way you planned. Pippin doesn't make mistakes, he's just destined to fail. It was inevitable. But in end, Pippin accepts his fate of being an average Joe with a wife and child. But how does he feel about it? He's trapped! It is what is! Now how do YOU, the audience feel about that? You all might end up like Pippin or already are like Pippin. Some things are just not meant to be. Life's unfair! You came to escape musical comedy to escape having thinking about all this. Instead you enjoyed someone struggling with it. But guess what? The show's over ya schmucks! Time to go back to thinking about it! But hopefully you have a different perspective on it now. That's the original ending, I think it's brilliant and is, along with the whole, based of the estrangement effect from Brecht's Epic Theatre.
@@QueenRedRosemary The new ending is nothing than an overhyped, unnecessary, and ultimately destructive tableau. It's very eerie, and yes it's "thematic", but it misses the point and it does not work with the show at all, no matter how hard Schwartz may try to make it do so. THEO IS TOO YOUNG and Schwartz knows this! Making him 15 years old does not make him at ready for the journey. Pippin's journey is that of 18 year old. Some one who is going off to college/leaving the nest! The message that's put in there is just an excuse for it to be done. It does nothing for the story nor does it make sense! Pippin is NOT Theo's father and his barely stepfather! He's his mothers boyfriend! Theo's just starting to accept him. Also, you cannot make Theo 15 years olds by having him say "Bite Me" or other swears. KIDS OF ALL AGES SWEAR!!! Theo will always be 8 years old and should never be any age older! He was written to be a little boy, not a teen!
He's there to be a challenge to Pippin because he has to get him to like him! Theo is irritating as hell at first, but when Pippin win's him over and then he really is cute and lovable, as Leading Player claimed prior. That's super important! That's one of a very victories in a sea of failures! Did you notice the minute Leading Player starts screaming that he's "gonna be whining 24 hours a day", Pippin immediately picks him up instinctually. Pippin is protecting him from that demonic song and dance man, and Theo is essentially protecting Pippin as well from that same lunatic, because he's helping Pippin find his true Corner of the Sky .This is Pippin growing up! Thinking about somebody other than himself. He loves this kid and his mother! That's Theo's purpose, giving Pippin a purpose to LIVE! HE AND HIS MOTHER STOP HIM FROM KILLING HIMSELF! If you go with that understanding of the character, whether he's 8 or 15 years old and theninclude then new ending...DEAR GOD!!! NO! NO! NO! NO! GET AWAY FROM HIM! NO! PIPPIN NEED'S HIM...AND HE'S JUST KID! YOU DEMONIC PERVERTS FROM HELL!!! Can somebody say PREDATORS? Now both Pippin and Cathrine have PURPOSE in KILLING THEMSELVES. So can they JOIN Theo IN THE SKY! Yeah there's no beauty in this ending! THIS IS HORRIFICALLY DARK!
Are the Leading Player and the troupe supposed to represent the devil and his angels?
What does pippin mean he feels trapped?
Izzy C Trapped by marriage/monogamy.
In the actually licensed version though, the line is "trapped, but happy." Schwartz himself has expressed his dislike at this recorded version.
The NEW new ending is far more thematic.
Izzy C Having to settle for the ordinary blessings of life. Acceptance of what is LIFE.
If Fosse hadn't banned Schwartz this show would have failed in a week. Fosse's genius make it real and magical