NEC 725 classifies condenser control wires as Class II and only requires they be protected from damage by securing to other objects. If the condenser is part of a life support system such as might be the case for elderly, disabled or health care applications, then 725 calls out Class 1 with normal conduit and insulation requirements. NEC does allow discretion to upgrade normal Class II cables to Class I, which makes good sense and is often done for reliability and workmanship reasons. Sometimes logic escapes the code books. As you indicate, low cost thermostat wire used outside degrades from UV, is damaged by animals and is easily cut by weedeaters.
The yard guys cut the insulation from the thermostat wire at my house just enough to cause a problem last week. To be fair, the wire was already in pretty bad shape. I managed to find enough “good” wire to splice together for an immediate temporary fix. Luckily, it only blew the fuse so that I didn’t have to wait for a part to come in. I will be replacing the wire and protecting it as much as possible this week. It doesn’t take long at all for the sun to degrade the wire. My unit was installed in 2017, and the wire has been looking bad for a while. Thanks for sharing how to protect it!
Thanks for the video ur the man appreciate ur video. I'm a new home owner and just started taking interest in my home u no and I noticed that my low voltage wires have protctection but its falling apart and wires are exposed all exposed . So I was thinking u tube the proper way to insulate them and I literally put that in the search your video pop up thanks for the video I went to rsi in phx I did residential commercial ac and electri residential commercial. But I own a swimming pool company and im a residential concrete finisher new homes much respect for the knowledge and professionalism u bring to the industry.
G'day from Brisbane Australia we run all inter connect cable from the indoor unit to the outdoor unit in orange circular cable which is UV protected and is run along with the suction line and all communication cables are double insulated
Good morning, saw your video and completely agree. As a new homeowner I saw many many flaws in workmanship in a my newly built home and the thermostat wire being one. So I did see that the power wires and thermostat wires come out of the same hole and split from the fuse box, is this incorrect placement? And also I wanted to find out more if I can use the same fuse box to place a new conduit for the thermostat wire since it did come out the same hole in the wall. I’m no hvac technician nor an electrician so I do have many more questions.
Or, in an apartment complex where A/C units are lined up next to each other, people step all over them, or in my case when your neighbor replaces their A/C shorts yours out by simply handling it. Might be a good idea to have your regular maintenance check this cable and replace as in the video before it takes out your transformer(or the fuse if lucky).
When I did set finishes or retrofits we would tape/run stat wire below suction line and uv tape it. Reason was to protect it from the sun and if in the future someone had to cut the suction insulation with their knife, they would less than likely cut the stat wire...
Only one city here in Kansas (that I know of) does require low voltage to be protected in flexible conduit. I think the only way this will be enforced is if manufactures of HVAC equipment requires that in the installation manual. As Communicating Systems becomes more popular, I do feel that this will eventually take place,
That exact problem happened to me a couple days ago. The only difference is my low voltage thermostat wire goes underground! I had to splice it 2” above the ground which I’m Leary about. Do you have any suggestions on how I can keep the wire nuts safe from water that close to the ground? Thanks and great video!
I took apart the window unit and threw out a ground wire before checking the triped breaker. Now I don’t know where the ground wire goes. Not turning on
mower cut that wire when i had family visit!!! i was so mad at at that mad mower guy.i cant believe those wires are exposed like that.im thinking of using a piece of water hosing to encase those wires
I live in Arizona; and just found out that my low voltage wiring for Thermostat to the air conditioner on the roof has deteriorated. Last night nothing worked and the Nest Thermostat has lost charge. Won't even turn on. I was going to go on the roof and replace/splice the rotten part of the wiring. Can someone please tell me where to get this low voltage wire I need and what the correct name for it is? Thanks! Thanks!
Good Afternoon, What would be the going price to replace the stat wiring, I have recently had this problem happen, my AC systems are Kenmore Comfort upstairs and down stairs unit. The downstairs unit just stopped suddenly after if buzzed when turned on and then nothing. Units were installed 11-1-2019 not even 2 yrs old. The AC repairman came out as per Home Warranty and said this was the issue, of course the warranty does not cover because they said it was cut and that was not normal wear and tear. The AC company sent their report as being cut, maybe the word cut caused the denial. Needless to say I had no idea about this wire but did look when shown and it appears the units were installed and the same wires from the old units since the house was built 1996 were kept in place. I didn't know enough at the time to ask about this while they were installing. So, please if you can give me about an idea of what I am looking at to pay for a lesson well learned now. thank you--Out of my lane home owner
I do not think the low voltage wire is going to be dangerous at all. Hence why there are no codes. A repair on this wire would be extremely easy so that isn't an issue. I assume for cost they don't do any further protection. Maybe needed protection if you have a critical application that cannot have any issues. I think any shock you (or an animal), may receive from the wire would not be an issue at all. Technically with the remaining lines in the stat wire that are unused. Those extra wires should be connected to common (grounded). The reason for this is because they essentially become antennas and can pick up random signals from other sources. This being extremely close to the wires in use can send this signals down the wire and interrupt communication. We have had an issue with this when we had a large switch board with many dampers.
Sorry for my ignorance but I have this question. What is a proper glove to work with refrigerant I see a lot videos of burning hand but I still didn’t see anyone user glove so can you tell me wish one is a good proper gloves to prevent burn? thanks
some thicker rubber gloves would be suggested. Even if they have cloth on the back side of the glove, fine. Yellow jacket makes a grat shut off valve for the liquid line I would invest in. No spray off if you do a diminimus detachment
@@foxfamilyhvac That's because he didn't know any better. I'm sure you helped him. Keep up the great work you're doing for your business! I wish I could have had a boss like you when I first started.
@@zack9912000 if you're in any of the 50 US states, it's against NEC. it would need a divider, so it was all in a seperate compartment and or be 600v rated building/appliance wire, as inside the units themselves. NEC 2005, Article 800.133 (A.1.c) Communication conductors shall not be placed in any raceway, compartment, outlet box, junction box, or similar fitting with conductors of electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire alarm, or medium power network powered broadband communications circuits. Exception No. 1: Where all of the conductors of electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire alarm, and medium power network-powered broadband communications circuits are separated from all of the conductors of communications circuits by a permanent barrier or listed divider.
You just caused me to go out and look at mine since I never paid any attention to it before. It turns out they used a separate conduit of the same type that they used for the HV wiring from the box. Very impressed. Thank you for the awareness. Now a question. How critical is the foam "pool noodle" around the line set that always deteriorates where it is exposed to the elements? Should I be looking at replacing it when it is in that condition and how much difference does it make? Thanks as always.
Yeah that suction line insulation should be on your line all the way to the AC. Is it going to make a big efficiency issue with your AC. No. But it's nice to keep things like that looking sharp, so update it every five years or so. Sac City is now requiring us to put a "removable vapor barrier" over the suction line insulation #E-Flex. Just more crap. Lol 😀
all needs happen is to install the wire in tight manner using lots of zip ties (every 8 "- 12"), more ties at the bends keeping the wire snug and tight, that much will keep the dogs away... Also it its bundled up tight, the sun and weather wont bother it over the course of the life of the system... 1/2" seal tight wont stop a weed-eater, might slow it down...
@@steveshort1425 It sounds like either you didn't understand the question or I didn't understand the reply. I don't know which. It sounded like you said the wiring is better protected if left exposed and zip tied than if it is fully encased in a conduit of the type used for 240vac. I'm pretty sure you didn't intend to say that but...unless you were talking about the foam cover. In my case some of it is missing.
if your bored and don't mind shiny wrinkles, wrap it in aluminum foil tape. just be mindful it's not toughing any of the copper anywhere, including the small "high side/liquid line" dont want any silly electrolysis happening
right, that would be against code being inside the disconnect, without being in an isolated compartment. that's also why condensers have a small splice/termination area for low voltage wiring, even though the wires jump over into same shared space as high voltage and are often touching, the wire changes to higher voltage/temperature rating, etc.
NEC 725 classifies condenser control wires as Class II and only requires they be protected from damage by securing to other objects. If the condenser is part of a life support system such as might be the case for elderly, disabled or health care applications, then 725 calls out Class 1 with normal conduit and insulation requirements. NEC does allow discretion to upgrade normal Class II cables to Class I, which makes good sense and is often done for reliability and workmanship reasons. Sometimes logic escapes the code books. As you indicate, low cost thermostat wire used outside degrades from UV, is damaged by animals and is easily cut by weedeaters.
Best comment yet!
The yard guys cut the insulation from the thermostat wire at my house just enough to cause a problem last week. To be fair, the wire was already in pretty bad shape. I managed to find enough “good” wire to splice together for an immediate temporary fix. Luckily, it only blew the fuse so that I didn’t have to wait for a part to come in. I will be replacing the wire and protecting it as much as possible this week. It doesn’t take long at all for the sun to degrade the wire. My unit was installed in 2017, and the wire has been looking bad for a while. Thanks for sharing how to protect it!
Thanks for the video ur the man appreciate ur video. I'm a new home owner and just started taking interest in my home u no and I noticed that my low voltage wires have protctection but its falling apart and wires are exposed all exposed . So I was thinking u tube the proper way to insulate them and I literally put that in the search your video pop up thanks for the video I went to rsi in phx I did residential commercial ac and electri residential commercial. But I own a swimming pool company and im a residential concrete finisher new homes much respect for the knowledge and professionalism u bring to the industry.
G'day from Brisbane Australia we run all inter connect cable from the indoor unit to the outdoor unit in orange circular cable which is UV protected and is run along with the suction line and all communication cables are double insulated
awesome! thanks for sharing
Good morning, saw your video and completely agree. As a new homeowner I saw many many flaws in workmanship in a my newly built home and the thermostat wire being one. So I did see that the power wires and thermostat wires come out of the same hole and split from the fuse box, is this incorrect placement? And also I wanted to find out more if I can use the same fuse box to place a new conduit for the thermostat wire since it did come out the same hole in the wall. I’m no hvac technician nor an electrician so I do have many more questions.
Or, in an apartment complex where A/C units are lined up next to each other, people step all over them, or in my case when your neighbor replaces their A/C shorts yours out by simply handling it. Might be a good idea to have your regular maintenance check this cable and replace as in the video before it takes out your transformer(or the fuse if lucky).
When I did set finishes or retrofits we would tape/run stat wire below suction line and uv tape it. Reason was to protect it from the sun and if in the future someone had to cut the suction insulation with their knife, they would less than likely cut the stat wire...
if your worried about UV and weather, just use a section of sprinkler system wire, from indoors to outdoors, the jacket is pretty tough also.
Only one city here in Kansas (that I know of) does require low voltage to be protected in flexible conduit. I think the only way this will be enforced is if manufactures of HVAC equipment requires that in the installation manual. As Communicating Systems becomes more popular, I do feel that this will eventually take place,
That is a very good point. Well said
Makes sense to put a conduit over it. My rental has it exposed and was loose. Could be shorting too
That exact problem happened to me a couple days ago. The only difference is my low voltage thermostat wire goes underground! I had to splice it 2” above the ground which I’m Leary about. Do you have any suggestions on how I can keep the wire nuts safe from water that close to the ground? Thanks and great video!
I took apart the window unit and threw out a ground wire before checking the triped breaker. Now I don’t know where the ground wire goes. Not turning on
mower cut that wire when i had family visit!!! i was so mad at at that mad mower guy.i cant believe those wires are exposed like that.im thinking of using a piece of water hosing to encase those wires
Code for 24v would affect who can work on sprinklers and low voltage lighting.....I’m sure some lobbyists have/are battling over it;-)
I live in Arizona; and just found out that my low voltage wiring for Thermostat to the air conditioner on the roof has deteriorated. Last night nothing worked and the Nest Thermostat has lost charge. Won't even turn on.
I was going to go on the roof and replace/splice the rotten part of the wiring. Can someone please tell me where to get this low voltage wire I need and what the correct name for it is?
Thanks!
Thanks!
I was told not to run low volt stat wire next to high voltage wire if you are using a communicating stat. Digital zeros and ones will get messed up.
Good Afternoon, What would be the going price to replace the stat wiring, I have recently had this problem happen, my AC systems are Kenmore Comfort upstairs and down stairs unit. The downstairs unit just stopped suddenly after if buzzed when turned on and then nothing. Units were installed 11-1-2019 not even 2 yrs old. The AC repairman came out as per Home Warranty and said this was the issue, of course the warranty does not cover because they said it was cut and that was not normal wear and tear. The AC company sent their report as being cut, maybe the word cut caused the denial. Needless to say I had no idea about this wire but did look when shown and it appears the units were installed and the same wires from the old units since the house was built 1996 were kept in place. I didn't know enough at the time to ask about this while they were installing. So, please if you can give me about an idea of what I am looking at to pay for a lesson well learned now. thank you--Out of my lane home owner
I do not think the low voltage wire is going to be dangerous at all. Hence why there are no codes. A repair on this wire would be extremely easy so that isn't an issue. I assume for cost they don't do any further protection. Maybe needed protection if you have a critical application that cannot have any issues. I think any shock you (or an animal), may receive from the wire would not be an issue at all.
Technically with the remaining lines in the stat wire that are unused. Those extra wires should be connected to common (grounded). The reason for this is because they essentially become antennas and can pick up random signals from other sources. This being extremely close to the wires in use can send this signals down the wire and interrupt communication. We have had an issue with this when we had a large switch board with many dampers.
Oh the dreaded landscaper weed whacker strike!
Lol!
Sorry for my ignorance but I have this question. What is a proper glove to work with refrigerant I see a lot videos of burning hand but I still didn’t see anyone user glove so can you tell me wish one is a good proper gloves to prevent burn? thanks
some thicker rubber gloves would be suggested. Even if they have cloth on the back side of the glove, fine. Yellow jacket makes a grat shut off valve for the liquid line I would invest in. No spray off if you do a diminimus detachment
Fox Family Heating, Air Conditioning and Solar thanks!
Thanks Greg
Thank you!
Then what are the dogs going to chew on Greg ?!
One owner asked us to wrap the suction line and stat wire in a wire mesh screen to keep it protected from the dogs. Wild.
@@foxfamilyhvac That's because he didn't know any better. I'm sure you helped him. Keep up the great work you're doing for your business! I wish I could have had a boss like you when I first started.
The Air Conditioning Guy ss
I always run them inside the high voltage whip
that's against code inside the disconnect, unless it has an isolated compartment just for low voltage wiring.
@@throttlebottle5906 not a issue where I am
@@zack9912000 if you're in any of the 50 US states, it's against NEC. it would need a divider, so it was all in a seperate compartment and or be 600v rated building/appliance wire, as inside the units themselves.
NEC 2005, Article 800.133 (A.1.c)
Communication conductors shall not be placed in any raceway, compartment, outlet box, junction box, or similar
fitting with conductors of electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire alarm, or medium power network powered broadband communications circuits.
Exception No. 1: Where all of the conductors of electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire alarm, and
medium power network-powered broadband communications circuits are separated from all of the conductors of
communications circuits by a permanent barrier or listed divider.
You just caused me to go out and look at mine since I never paid any attention to it before. It turns out they used a separate conduit of the same type that they used for the HV wiring from the box. Very impressed. Thank you for the awareness. Now a question. How critical is the foam "pool noodle" around the line set that always deteriorates where it is exposed to the elements? Should I be looking at replacing it when it is in that condition and how much difference does it make? Thanks as always.
Yeah that suction line insulation should be on your line all the way to the AC. Is it going to make a big efficiency issue with your AC. No. But it's nice to keep things like that looking sharp, so update it every five years or so. Sac City is now requiring us to put a "removable vapor barrier" over the suction line insulation #E-Flex. Just more crap. Lol 😀
all needs happen is to install the wire in tight manner using lots of zip ties (every 8 "- 12"), more ties at the bends keeping the wire snug and tight, that much will keep the dogs away... Also it its bundled up tight, the sun and weather wont bother it over the course of the life of the system... 1/2" seal tight wont stop a weed-eater, might slow it down...
@@steveshort1425 It sounds like either you didn't understand the question or I didn't understand the reply. I don't know which.
It sounded like you said the wiring is better protected if left exposed and zip tied than if it is fully encased in a conduit of the type used for 240vac. I'm pretty sure you didn't intend to say that but...unless you were talking about the foam cover. In my case some of it is missing.
if your bored and don't mind shiny wrinkles, wrap it in aluminum foil tape. just be mindful it's not toughing any of the copper anywhere, including the small "high side/liquid line" dont want any silly electrolysis happening
Was running it through the whip until I was told not to by my manager.
right, that would be against code being inside the disconnect, without being in an isolated compartment. that's also why condensers have a small splice/termination area for low voltage wiring, even though the wires jump over into same shared space as high voltage and are often touching, the wire changes to higher voltage/temperature rating, etc.