Great information on the business side of the shop. Now, I jus need the skills to produce some product. As it stands now, I would have to charge $875 bucks for a bottle opener since it take me 28 hours to forge a craptastic version. Heh.
Daniel, The thing is is I have just started selling my blades and I am not a known maker yet so my thoughts behind the price was a hard one . even though it takes long hours to complete a blade I kind of feel that for now as long as I am making my money back from the purchase of the steal (that can produce up to 10 blades) and the cost of all the other materials after the sale of 1 or 2 blades I feel for now it is worth it. But that is subject to change as I get better known as a maker.. Thank you for the great reply and to mention I am not trying to sell myself short just trying to gain the knolidge to go farther in this industry..Martin M&S Blades
The fire pokers I turned out at the Pioneer Village were sold at a low price of $30 - $35 at the gift shop however they were not out to make money, just to pay for supplies. That's around 25 - 26 pounds I believe. They were worth more than that but that's what they did. And I could not make enough of them. I mostly forged out handles when folks were not around as that part is boring, maybe do a fire weld when folks were in the shop just for some picture moments. I'd tell the folks to get ready for the fireworks.
To keep costs lower for folks, I try to make as many of an Item as I can at the same time. Keeps costs lower but you make more in the long run. Small items are the easiest sellers and big ticket items are nice but they dont come along to often to consider them stable income.
I have always figured specialty things like this at $1/min or $60/hr. Not feasible with everything item but for things you are good at and can knock out quickly or for larger items that are of good quality, I think that as a standard rate + materials just so simplifies the math. What are your thoughts?
nice job Daniel when I make my blades unfortunately I do not have a belt grinder so all my work is done litteraly by hane with files and the like. When I forge a blade it saves very little time for the process is about the same length. For now I have benn charging around 200 US dollars for my pieces and this is also with a hand made leather sheath hand made mosaic pins and as good of a high polished finish along with a razor sharp edge thanks to my Wicked Edge sharpening system. I guess what I'm trying to say is everyone has a process and sometimes no matter how long it takes to make your product you should sell it for what you can get even if it took you as long to make said product as I have explained in a brief description of what I make here at my forge.. Right? Id like to here your input when you have a chance. Thank you and Cheers from across the pond... Martin M&S Blades..
Don't sell your self short is what i would say. A lot of the pricing i gave in this video is also subject to you situation. If your happy to spend 20 hour making a thing for $200 then thats cool. I know a guy not far from me that charge well over £3000 per knife. He sells lots as well. just what your happy to be payed. If i make sculpture i charge a lot more that what we talked about here cause i know people will pay.
Well put Daniel. I typically figure my prices off of what I earn from my day job. If I were to earn $18.00 an hour doing overtime, which I feel my hobby smithing is considered, and I basically void the material cost since a lot of the steel I use is recycled. I do add a little for my fuel cost though. The other thing that is a BIG factor, is my market. If I am selling to complete strangers, I set the price a bit over, and allow for discussion on price. On the other hand, at SCA events, I try to ask a fair price or even under cut a bit, since happy customs bring in more money. Sometimes I have taken it to far, but as said before, it is a hobby and not a career. Hope you had the chance to see my 'for Daniel Moss' video.
I think that its different if your running it as a hobby forge so well put. You make a fair point. I would suggest you put your prices up dude and see if you still sell. thank you for the great comment. loved the pins dude.
Nice one D'sun. Back to viewing. Get out of the nut house on Friday. Vehicle spelt this way in English just FYI, 🤣...great vid as usual, very helpful, well done. 😀
Simple answer is I don't want it to hit hard. I'm only making a small item in the video and I don't want to hit that hard with it. It's one of the great pleasures of owning a massey. You can do small work or big work.
Nice job Dan. I had my poker like that at $24 us but was thinking that was too cheap. I have a day job and have been doing blacksmithing and metal fabrication on the side for quite a few years. I've found you need to find the right people willing to pay for quality handmade items. I used to make trapping supplies but it got hard to compete with the items made overseas. (Asia)
I was one told that if its to cheep it won't see. I also only like the customers that say well its a little more than i wanted to pay but ill have it any way. hehe.
Guys, I"m new to blacksmithing, but NOT new to marketing. You. Sell. Art. Period. Want it cheaper? Go to Walmart and get some crap. I sell handcrafted (functional art work). Don't have money? Someone else DOES. MY work is dear. FIND your buyers. They're out there.
Daniel, No offence taken .. I was just simply explaining that I am uncertain I could sell a blade for 350 400 or so US at this point in my jurney that's all . To be honest.
Made a mistake there Dan, need to pay yourself when your doing run the business stuff that doesnt earn money. IE if you spend 2 hours a day quoting, maintaining gear etc, and 6 hours a day earning money - you still need to get paid for your time of 8 hours. It is part of the cost of running the business. SO while all the utilities etc get calculated on 6 hours, you need to have 8 hours of paying Dan!
You have to span it out over the hours that pay - ie instead of adding 10 pound per hour as your required wages, you know about 20% of your time running the business doesnt earn money directly, you add 20% to that 10 pounds in your hourly rate calculation, so the 12 pound earned for 80% of the time pays you for all your time. Your time running the business is just as much an overhead that should go in to the hourly rate as paying the power bill is!
Jack Dawg I understand what your getting at but that's why I doubled the amount per hour you should earn to cover the in consistency. You can't make money out of nothing. Also pretending that your getting paid for every hour you work isn't real. it's just not how it works. if you drop the ball and have to redo a load of work who pays for that.
Do you run a forge or some sort of business dude? I would like to say that this is what i charge for my hourly rate but i did work it out this way. I as uses this time of rate for working out pre made items. To inform me of where the price i charge should be. If you read some of the comments here lots think I'm over charging. I do see what your saying by the way I just don't feel that It works that way. If you only earn 60 hours in a month but you pay your self for a 120 hours where does the extra money come from??
I agree with Jack Dog. Suppose you got to the point where you have to work at the anvil more just to keep up what you have drummed up in work. What will happen is soon you will run out of anvil work because you didn't spend time making estimates. You have 2 choices. You stop and drum up more business, or you hire an estimator. You have to pay that estimator, correct? So, if the estimator earns a wage, why shouldn't you also? I had a commercial construction company in California, and I experienced this very same scenario, except I had 2 estimators plus myself and a superintendent and a secretary (35+ employees). I am showing something perhaps too extreme to fit you, but in any case, you should be paid for your estimating time etc. For without the estimating time, there will be no anvil time. No money can be made until, and unless somebody sells something first! Retired now, and spend my time watching great videos like yours! And a little anvil work. Thanks- Jerry
£220 for a Knife!!....a bushcraft centre in Ripon are selling the same sort of thing for £210, who buys this stuff for that price? I can't see the justification to pass that amount of cash for that object. I get the craftsmanship, hours, etc, I wouldn't be able to sell that up in Yorkshire. Top video Dan, keep up the good work.
I've seen smaller knifes go for a lot more and a local smith to me sells this size knife for £700-£1000 and sell very well. If you make it people will by it that's the way of thing sorry.
BOTH you guys are missing the point (thanks for the great vids Dan!). The "body" of your business is comprised of many different organs and appendages functionally as separate and different as you could imagine, right? "Selling" is only one of them. Cost vs. value. One is a number. The other is TOTALLY not a number. No, not even by comparison with items in a hardware or furniture store--ANY store. Why? Because buying shit is emotional. Ace Hardware... or even "Hoity Toity Hardware" on the corner is pure (narrow spectrum) baseline as value goes. YOU are the product. Like it or not. THAT'S why Dan sells the shit out of a hook at a craft fair. I met him, talked to him, saw "the very maker" of the thing which I paid for... that's why I paid for it. As the maker it is VERY hard for me to relate appropriately to selling vs. everything I put into creating/producing a piece. POINT: NEVER sell "any old hook". That's NOT the business you're in. "Buy a 3-d printer and be DONE with it already, Mr. Customer. Why are you bothering ME?" Because. I personally made this thing. With fire and a fucking HAMMER. Want it cheaper? Here's a match, now piss off. POINT: we gotta find the right buyers. They are out there. ESPECIALLY these days when blacksmithing is in major resurgence.
I had an ah ha! moment, I worked out where you are going wrong; You know who has nearly a million subscribers uses more exclamation marks than you do, you need at least three on every title.:-)
Its was a little of the top of my head but i did check today the cost for a 3 meter length from underwoods (which i do not buy from) but if that is your only option is £12.50 making 600mm £2.40. so i wasn't far off. the truth is i brought the bar in bolk for a lock stock holder at trade almost costing about £10.30+vat for a full length. That made the bar £1.20 ish. I also had to collect it call that 10p ish so let say £1.30ish. But a fair point dude. thank you for the comment.
Also the power, fuel and bees wax is in the hourly rate dude but if you think i was low thats cool each to there own its just a rough idea sort of thing. thank you for the comment dude.
Great video there Dan! And thank you very much sir for the shout out hope you are doing well. God bless
Well you know more thank me when it comes to that stuff. Thank for the great comment dude.
Love watching both of your channels!!
I really appreciate your videos. You are one of the few that talk about stuff like this and it's extremely helpful. Thanks from East Tennessee!
Took my first blacksmithing lesson last Saturday, and loved learning and making the wall hook it was great.
Thats so cool dude. who was the class with??
Caitlyn Morris in Frederick, MD
It all makes complete sense Dan. You have to have a business plan and it is the right way to price items up taking everything into account. Excellent.
Great information on the business side of the shop. Now, I jus need the skills to produce some product. As it stands now, I would have to charge $875 bucks for a bottle opener since it take me 28 hours to forge a craptastic version. Heh.
I thought that was really funny dude you made me smill. thank you fro the great comment.
Daniel,
The thing is is I have just started selling my blades and I am not a known maker yet so my thoughts behind the price was a hard one . even though it takes long hours to complete a blade I kind of feel that for now as long as I am making my money back from the purchase of the steal (that can produce up to 10 blades) and the cost of all the other materials after the sale of 1 or 2 blades I feel for now it is worth it. But that is subject to change as I get better known as a maker.. Thank you for the great reply and to mention I am not trying to sell myself short just trying to gain the knolidge to go farther in this industry..Martin M&S Blades
martin and shan Moldovan not a dig just keep that in mind. you git to do what feels right.
The fire pokers I turned out at the Pioneer Village were sold at a low price of $30 - $35 at the gift shop however they were not out to make money, just to pay for supplies. That's around 25 - 26 pounds I believe. They were worth more than that but that's what they did. And I could not make enough of them. I mostly forged out handles when folks were not around as that part is boring, maybe do a fire weld when folks were in the shop just for some picture moments. I'd tell the folks to get ready for the fireworks.
To keep costs lower for folks, I try to make as many of an Item as I can at the same time. Keeps costs lower but you make more in the long run. Small items are the easiest sellers and big ticket items are nice but they dont come along to often to consider them stable income.
You make a fair point i would do the same. Its hard to cover every thing in the videos some times.
I have always figured specialty things like this at $1/min or $60/hr. Not feasible with everything item but for things you are good at and can knock out quickly or for larger items that are of good quality, I think that as a standard rate + materials just so simplifies the math. What are your thoughts?
Nice video, i'm envious of your power hammer.
Simple poker my a**! It's bloody awesome. I can't WAIT til i can do cool stuff like that.
nice job Daniel when I make my blades unfortunately I do not have a belt grinder so all my work is done litteraly by hane with files and the like. When I forge a blade it saves very little time for the process is about the same length. For now I have benn charging around 200 US dollars for my pieces and this is also with a hand made leather sheath hand made mosaic pins and as good of a high polished finish along with a razor sharp edge thanks to my Wicked Edge sharpening system. I guess what I'm trying to say is everyone has a process and sometimes no matter how long it takes to make your product you should sell it for what you can get even if it took you as long to make said product as I have explained in a brief description of what I make here at my forge.. Right? Id like to here your input when you have a chance. Thank you and Cheers from across the pond... Martin M&S Blades..
Don't sell your self short is what i would say. A lot of the pricing i gave in this video is also subject to you situation. If your happy to spend 20 hour making a thing for $200 then thats cool. I know a guy not far from me that charge well over £3000 per knife. He sells lots as well. just what your happy to be payed. If i make sculpture i charge a lot more that what we talked about here cause i know people will pay.
Great hammer control and precision!
Well put Daniel. I typically figure my prices off of what I earn from my day job. If I were to earn $18.00 an hour doing overtime, which I feel my hobby smithing is considered, and I basically void the material cost since a lot of the steel I use is recycled. I do add a little for my fuel cost though. The other thing that is a BIG factor, is my market. If I am selling to complete strangers, I set the price a bit over, and allow for discussion on price. On the other hand, at SCA events, I try to ask a fair price or even under cut a bit, since happy customs bring in more money. Sometimes I have taken it to far, but as said before, it is a hobby and not a career. Hope you had the chance to see my 'for Daniel Moss' video.
I think that its different if your running it as a hobby forge so well put. You make a fair point. I would suggest you put your prices up dude and see if you still sell. thank you for the great comment. loved the pins dude.
Daniel Moss always good to leave room to haggle, right? :)
Should be running into Roy at SOFA at the end of this month. You should come set around the fire and have a coffee with us. :)
Nice one D'sun. Back to viewing. Get out of the nut house on Friday. Vehicle spelt this way in English just FYI, 🤣...great vid as usual, very helpful, well done. 😀
good to have you bk dude. your getting a shout out in the next hammer time. Also blacksmith not English teacher hehe. thank you for the comment dude.
that a lot of fire pokers you gotta sell in a day.
nice info but i have to ask you why dont use power hammer that much you dont hit that hard can you tell me why
Simple answer is I don't want it to hit hard. I'm only making a small item in the video and I don't want to hit that hard with it. It's one of the great pleasures of owning a massey. You can do small work or big work.
@@danielmoss2089 thanks for replying keep up the good work i love your work
Nice job Dan. I had my poker like that at $24 us but was thinking that was too cheap. I have a day job and have been doing blacksmithing and metal fabrication on the side for quite a few years. I've found you need to find the right people willing to pay for quality handmade items. I used to make trapping supplies but it got hard to compete with the items made overseas. (Asia)
You feel my pain, lol. I posted a similar comment to yours. Thanks!
I was one told that if its to cheep it won't see. I also only like the customers that say well its a little more than i wanted to pay but ill have it any way. hehe.
Guys, I"m new to blacksmithing, but NOT new to marketing. You. Sell. Art. Period. Want it cheaper? Go to Walmart and get some crap. I sell handcrafted (functional art work). Don't have money? Someone else DOES. MY work is dear. FIND your buyers. They're out there.
Daniel,
No offence taken .. I was just simply explaining that I am uncertain I could sell a blade for 350 400 or so US at this point in my jurney that's all . To be honest.
Made a mistake there Dan, need to pay yourself when your doing run the business stuff that doesnt earn money. IE if you spend 2 hours a day quoting, maintaining gear etc, and 6 hours a day earning money - you still need to get paid for your time of 8 hours. It is part of the cost of running the business. SO while all the utilities etc get calculated on 6 hours, you need to have 8 hours of paying Dan!
Jack Dawg so who pays you for that if you do a quote and you don't get the job?
You have to span it out over the hours that pay - ie instead of adding 10 pound per hour as your required wages, you know about 20% of your time running the business doesnt earn money directly, you add 20% to that 10 pounds in your hourly rate calculation, so the 12 pound earned for 80% of the time pays you for all your time. Your time running the business is just as much an overhead that should go in to the hourly rate as paying the power bill is!
Jack Dawg I understand what your getting at but that's why I doubled the amount per hour you should earn to cover the in consistency. You can't make money out of nothing. Also pretending that your getting paid for every hour you work isn't real. it's just not how it works. if you drop the ball and have to redo a load of work who pays for that.
Do you run a forge or some sort of business dude? I would like to say that this is what i charge for my hourly rate but i did work it out this way. I as uses this time of rate for working out pre made items. To inform me of where the price i charge should be. If you read some of the comments here lots think I'm over charging. I do see what your saying by the way I just don't feel that It works that way. If you only earn 60 hours in a month but you pay your self for a 120 hours where does the extra money come from??
I agree with Jack Dog. Suppose you got to the point where you have to work at the anvil more just to keep up what you have drummed up in work. What will happen is soon you will run out of anvil work because you didn't spend time making estimates. You have 2 choices. You stop and drum up more business, or you hire an estimator. You have to pay that estimator, correct? So, if the estimator earns a wage, why shouldn't you also? I had a commercial construction company in California, and I experienced this very same scenario, except I had 2 estimators plus myself and a superintendent and a secretary (35+ employees). I am showing something perhaps too extreme to fit you, but in any case, you should be paid for your estimating time etc. For without the estimating time, there will be no anvil time. No money can be made until, and unless somebody sells something first! Retired now, and spend my time watching great videos like yours! And a little anvil work. Thanks- Jerry
£220 for a Knife!!....a bushcraft centre in Ripon are selling the same sort of thing for £210, who buys this stuff for that price? I can't see the justification to pass that amount of cash for that object. I get the craftsmanship, hours, etc, I wouldn't be able to sell that up in Yorkshire. Top video Dan, keep up the good work.
I've seen smaller knifes go for a lot more and a local smith to me sells this size knife for £700-£1000 and sell very well. If you make it people will by it that's the way of thing sorry.
BOTH you guys are missing the point (thanks for the great vids Dan!). The "body" of your business is comprised of many different organs and appendages functionally as separate and different as you could imagine, right? "Selling" is only one of them. Cost vs. value. One is a number. The other is TOTALLY not a number. No, not even by comparison with items in a hardware or furniture store--ANY store. Why? Because buying shit is emotional. Ace Hardware... or even "Hoity Toity Hardware" on the corner is pure (narrow spectrum) baseline as value goes. YOU are the product. Like it or not. THAT'S why Dan sells the shit out of a hook at a craft fair. I met him, talked to him, saw "the very maker" of the thing which I paid for... that's why I paid for it. As the maker it is VERY hard for me to relate appropriately to selling vs. everything I put into creating/producing a piece. POINT: NEVER sell "any old hook". That's NOT the business you're in. "Buy a 3-d printer and be DONE with it already, Mr. Customer. Why are you bothering ME?" Because. I personally made this thing. With fire and a fucking HAMMER. Want it cheaper? Here's a match, now piss off. POINT: we gotta find the right buyers. They are out there. ESPECIALLY these days when blacksmithing is in major resurgence.
I had an ah ha! moment, I worked out where you are going wrong; You know who has nearly a million subscribers uses more exclamation marks than you do, you need at least three on every title.:-)
£3 of material?! where are you buying you steel?
Tobias Forbes Gower You could try www.fhbrundle.co.uk
well you have the steel, then to coal/coke the power for the fan and the finish material like bees wax. So thats low balling it to me.
I don't struggle buying steel, it just seems expensive for a meter of 12 square
Its was a little of the top of my head but i did check today the cost for a 3 meter length from underwoods (which i do not buy from) but if that is your only option is £12.50 making 600mm £2.40. so i wasn't far off. the truth is i brought the bar in bolk for a lock stock holder at trade almost costing about £10.30+vat for a full length. That made the bar £1.20 ish. I also had to collect it call that 10p ish so let say £1.30ish. But a fair point dude. thank you for the comment.
Also the power, fuel and bees wax is in the hourly rate dude but if you think i was low thats cool each to there own its just a rough idea sort of thing. thank you for the comment dude.