I sympathize with your position, but I would like to have seen how John Huston would have done, if he were alive for the role. He was masterful in the Rankin & Bass cartoon adaptation.
I loved Sean Connery, but I can't think of almost any other actors as fully qualified and naturally Gandalf-ish as Sir Ian. Ser Patrick Stewart would have been able to pull it off, and I also thought the actor who played Ser Barristan Selmy would've been a good possibility. The Actor playing "The Stranger" in RoP, killed it at capturing some of Sir Ian's mannerisms". I thought his pained looks, joyful smiles, tone of voice, especially in Quenya really remind me of Ian Mckellen.
Gandalf the Grey, only because he seemed more approachable, more like a kindly uncle or grandfather, rather than Gandalf the White who seemed more kingly and majestic.
My sentiment exactly. I feel it would be a good time to sit and have an idle chat with Gandalf the Grey, whereas dining with Gandalf the White would be more of a formal occasion.
Feel like watching the movie again! Still remember the first time I saw him go against the Balrog on the big screen had me on the edge of my seat! A year later I saw the EPIC conclusion of that battle. Yep, going to watch it again!
Difficult to choose grey or white! I like Gandalf because of this character arc and transformation. But if i were made to choose I would go Grey simply because this is the amicable and quirky underdog we first meet in the main stories, whose magic is tantalizingly sparing and leaves most to the imagination and wonder.
Perhaps one of the reasons an empowered Gandalf doesn't engage directly with Sauron, is that perhaps the people had to earn and learn their freedoms. If given to them, they may not guard it so carefully themselves un the future.
Gandalf the Gray is my preferred version, he was able to inspire and give hope to all he confronted. He'll give you a nudge in the right direction and ignite the courage in your heart to do the right thing. Gandalf the white, in my opinion, did the same but to a lesser degree because he had the power which he lacked in the gray version to take actions into his own hands.
I like what you said about Gandalf, my only problem with him was he kept a lot of information from the fellowship which helped caused his demise. Like he knew what was in the mines in the first movie but didn’t say anything about it. In the hobbit the first movie, Gandalf knew about the orc Thorin thought was dead and didn’t say anything. I don’t know why he did that but if you have an answer I would love to hear it because I’ve always been curious about that.
What-if video idea for you to do: What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?
don't forget the part from the hobbit with the trolls around the campfire. Gandalf suddenly appears out of the shadows just perfectly as the sun rose (which seemed to take the trolls by surprise, they thought it was rising much too early), and thusly turned the trolls to stone, saving Bilbo and the dwarves.
Found this channel by accident but I also just finished Rings of Power. This is unbelievably well made and I shall be binging the rest of your content! Thank you!!
Gandalf the Grey, from just a comparison, he was much more focused on the smaller parts of life. The fall of Gandalf the Grey was a metaphor for what happens to some soldiers going through a tense battle and losing themselves. Much like PTS, Gandalf the White is less gentle with the world around him and not as playful as he had been. Gandalf the Grey was a warmer presence.
His impeccable timing? Well he is never early nor late. I recall he was initially reluctant to go to middle earth, still his desire to return and fulfill his charge, paired with his reluctance to use power, he seemed more like a longer leash and more brevity to flex when he needed
Gandalf the Grey is unaware of his own nature. After fighting the Balrog and subsequently being resurrected, Gandalf the White remembers his own history as a Maia of Nienna. That seems to be the main difference as far as I can tell.
Dagor Dagoroth please! As always fantastic job. You guys have fantastic lore perspectives and knowledge and gave an extremely fair and honest review on the Rings of Power series. Thank you for all your hard work, it is thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated!
I don't recall Gandalf using magic as a direct weapon - perhaps on Weathertop but otherwise it's fire or light which strike fear into his foes rather than directly injuring them. At the same time, the light or fire inspires his friends and allies. Perhaps the fire he used in the Hobbit to drive off the Wargs was a direct attack, but still it was to drive them away, not kill them. So Gandalf's main role was to be an inspiration (which was supposed to be the role of the Istari) more than an attacker. Even with the Balrog he broke the bridge rather than attacking the Balrog with magic, then he used the sword rather than magic against the foe.
Personally, I like Gandalf the gray. I love the wise but snippy and sarcastic old man with the hint of worry and fear but resolute, strong and determined in the face of it. cunning and loyal but enjoys a good laugh from time to time. Great character. Maybe the greatest character? He’s very fatherly.
As Gandalf the White, he possessed greater charisma and a limited degree of clairvoyance, although he was unable to peer into the land of Mordor to see the progress of Frodo and Sam. His power and authority had increased so that he could break Saruman's staff with a spoken command, showing his authority to throw the treacherous wizard out of the order. He also was successful in preventing Sauron's Eye from locating Frodo.
@@lufka3267 end of the fellowship. Frodo is on the seat of seeing and has the ring on and he sees Sauron and Sauron senses him and starts to look for him. Gandalf prevents it and tells frodo to remove the ring from a great distance.
His 'power' being almost non existent and only portrayed by vague debatable theories is what ultimately ruins the character for me (at least the part of him being a wizard). Don't get me wrong Ian played the character really well in the movies and the fact that he is shrouded in mystery does make him interesting for a lot of people. But I can't be the only one who is just so tired of wizards and magic in general being downplayed every time (for the good guys at least). The reason that is given for Gandalf lack of showing his power is arguably a bit better than the "I''m out of mana" trope but it is still such an annoying cop-out imo.
@@blaat44 Why shouldn't magic be subtle? Why should it be hurling fireballs and lightning bolts about, when it can instead be a subtle, quiet thing that leaves the viewer mystified as to whether it really was some kind of supernatural power.
While I love the original trilogy in its entirely, there is one scene in the extended version that I do not like at all and I think you all know which I'm talking about--the Witch-King would have never been able to break Gandalf's staff and quite honestly Gandalf in his full power would have annihilated the Witch-King, so that scene went against all that we know about the both of them
I agree with you 100%. If Gandalf the Grey could bring down a Balrog, then Gandalf the White would absolutely destroy the Witch King. I do sometimes wish that Tolkien had written of a straight fight between Gandalf the White and say Khamul at the Black Gate. Seeing a Nazgul being dismembered by Gandalf would have raised a cheer from me. It would probably have left Sauron even more assailed by doubt. With the Witch King and Khamul gone, his remaining Nazgul would be left feeling vulnerable. It would have raised the spirits of the army of Gondor and weakened the resolve of Sauron's.
It's interesting that Gandalf, like Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam, lived a life of restricted power. The theme of "some powers should never be used" seems to echo in Gandalf's character.
My assumption, at least since reading the Silmarilion, was that Gandalf the white had far less, though still very severe, restrictions on his inherent Maiar abilities. I know many read it as he gets an "upgrade" from Manwë or Varda, even both, and I don't find that a silly or strange way to interpret it at all. The former feels right to me, and it seems like "well why would you augment something hobbled already, just free it to a degree", if that makes sense?
When the Istari were sent to Middle-earth, it wasn't known Sauron was still around. The Valar just knew a Shadow was growing yet again in Middle-earth and the Istari were sent as Agents of the Valar to contest this Shadow but not to command or rule the Free Peoples. It was only fully know that Sauron, Enemy of Old, was the Shadow that had been growing when Gandalf ventured into Dol-Guldur a second time in 2850 of the Third Age. Sauron openly declared himself in Third Age 2951. Gandalf the White was not akin in Power to Sauron even with Sauron without the One Ring. Only with the One Ring could Gandalf be sure of victory against Sauron but as Gandalf & the Three Hunters talked, Gandalf looked East and saw the One Ring was too far away to be an option. "I have spoken words of hope. But only of hope. Hope is not victory. War is upon us and all our friends, a war in which only the use of the Ring could give us surety of victory. It fills me with great sorrow and great fear: for much shall be destroyed and all may be lost. I am Gandalf, Gandalf the White, but Black is mightier still." - Gandalf the White, The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 5, The White Rider
There were still limitations on what GtW could accomplish. I immediately recalled the "...Black is mightier still," line from the book while watching this video.
@@jggimi I do believe he was alluding to the entire situation not just between himself and Sauron. Sauron still had the 9 which nobody, save himself, could match. He also had a massive army of orcs, trolls , etc. headed to fight against a beleaguered Gondor while Saruman was trying to take down Rohan. So at that very moment when he met the hunters black was very much mightier still. He knew that he alone without the ring could not assure victory against all that. Now if Elrond, Galadriel and himself decided to wield the three it might have been enough as long as Sauron didn't have the one, but they were kinda busy with their own fights in the north at the time.
Gandalf literally admitted that he's more powerful than anyone, unless brought before Sauron himself. That was in The Two Towers. Right when he met the three hunters. There was never any question that Sauron was more powerful.
When the wizards were sent to middle-earth, they were without much of their native power, and even when Gandalf was sent back he still did not possess all of his native powers though they were increased so that he could assume the duties that Saruman betrayed. Sauron entered middle-earth without these restrictions. The Valar learned from prior experience that great damage was done when direct force was used against Morgoth, Sauron’s master in the First Age, so the Istari were sent to inspire the inhabitants of middle-earth to resist rather than direct confrontation.
I dunno. It always comes with the cop out caveat "if suaron has the ring," which I mean... if Gandalf had the ring he'd be even more powerful... This is like saying I could win a fight with Mike Tyson, if I had a shotgun. Guess what would happen if Mike had the shotgun...
Yes please on the Dagor Dagorath! I’ve heard it told that when Morgoth finally escapes from the chain Angainor and is free of the Void, in the final battle it was either Beren, Turin, or Feanor that eventually defeated him (depending on when in building his legendarium and the source). Firstly I doubt it would be Beren ( the Lay of Beren and Luthien is more Tolkien writing he and his love for Edith into the mythology, and I can’t see him being so proud as to make himself the vanquisher of the ultimate corruption in Ea). If it were to be Feanor it would make for a fantastic character’s redemption arc if it weren’t for the fact he wrote Feanor so fiercely proud it would defy any logic. And if it were Turin, it would be befitting for the greatest tragic hero (IMO) of the mythology to have endured the worst of Morgoth to bring about his undoing. But I think the most important question would be why Christopher Tolkien thought his father might have abandoned the idea? How strong is the evidence he had, or simply hadn’t found a way to write it?
There is also a version where Melkor finally repents and instead of a Final Battle, there is the Final Music of the Ainur plus the Elves and Men, and "the themes of Illuvatar are played aright" This is from either the Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales.
Love this one. Interesting thought at the end when it is stated Gandalf the white could have defeated Sauron. Knowing the art of war, we all gave a part to play, a burden to carry. There is no sandbagging in life.
Dagor Daggorath, please! I love how many things it brings full circle, including Feanor being at last released from Mandos to break open a silmaril to restore light to the Trees.
Thanks for the video, I found it very interesting. I never thought about it before, but the examples you gave of the connections between Gandalf and the sun remained me of how he defeated the trolls that were planning to cook Thorin and company in The Hobbit.
It's Mithrandir! The White Rider!! Good 1 on 1 for sure..Yeah, a hell in a cell setting would be amazing..Keep up the great work Mellon!! Ecthelion! DAGOR DAGORATH PLEASE SIR!
Grey or White matters little to me. Gandalf is the pinnacle of Tolkien's writings. He's the reason that I fell in love with Middle Earth. I'm fond of most of Tolkien's characters, but Gandalf glues everything together. Without him, so many of the outcomes needed to bring about the downfall of Sauron would not have come to pass. When as a ten year old, I first read of Gandalf's fall to the Balrog (which at first left me quite distraught), I told myself that Gandalf would want me to be brave and continue reading. I did, mainly in the hope that he wasn't actually dead. At that point, Tolkien hadn't written of Gandalf's actual death, so my hope was that at some point, Gandalf would return. Even today, 45 years later, the White Rider chapter is one of my favourites. ❤❤❤❤❤❤
Knowing somewhat of the scope & the full arc that is Gandalf - if I’m putting that correctly? I’d say the Grey & White are not to be separated and are one in the same. As both hold the all important common trait of putting the greater good, and even the good of a single friend ahead of that of his own. As you mentioned the power in both the grey & white is borrowed. But it is this trait that has these powers bestowed upon him. Despite the color, Gandalf always rose the occasion to the best of his ability with what had been given to him at any particular time of need. So my answer is there is just one Gandalf. It’s not his cloaks, focus of purpose, but his love & respect of all living things that makes him what he is :) Just Gandalf.
"Gandalf the grey, and gandalf the white and monty python and the holy grail's black knight, benito musolini, and the blue meanie, cowbay curtis and jambi the genie, robocop, the terminator, captain kirk and darth vader, lo-pan, superman, and every single power ranger, bill S preston and Theodore Logan, spock, the rock, dock ock, and hulk hogan all came out of nowhere lightning fast, and they kicked chuck norris in his cowboy ass it was the bloodiest battle that the world ever saw, with civillians looking on in total awe"
Gandalf the grey. For me i think that is when he is at his wisest and and could be curious about middle earth. But when he becomes the white he has to be serious to get the job done.
🎶And Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White and Monty Python and the Holy Grail's Black Knight... 🎶 My favorite version is Gandalf the Grey. He seems warmer and more personable. However, I think it's probably good that even though Gandalf literally returns from the dead, there is still a sense of loss because the character is not the same.
I would assume that the reason why Gandalf didnt flatten Sauron's forces is because, well, thats not really his job. If he did everything for the mortal races, they wouldnt learn anything, would have no achievements and would live in a peace gifted to them. By having them work for it, that achievement is far more impressive. That being said, I do now have an image in my head of Gandalf facing down Sauron and pull a Yamamoto by summoning a flaming sword that literally scorches everything to ashes.
I had to repeat the first bit to see what you were saying, turns out you were saying sun.. I was wondering who San was for abit. Thanks for the quality vid!
I think the reason why Gandalf did not go on to fight Sauron directly is because his original quest was to inspire men to conquer their foe. The Ring Narya probably helped inspire the men to accomplish this.
Oh, without a doubt, they Grey is my favorite. The White is vastly more intimidating (not that the Grey isn't intimidating), but there is such a humorous and loving quality to the Grey that I have always enjoyed much more.
What I like is how Gandalf moves through in the book that was way more powerful than most all of the others in the book actually went through his own hero quest and grew as needed to help his mission move forward. It just reminds me why I love the Lord of the Rings.
Directly from the book, The Two Towers; Gandalf The White addresses Saruman "of many colours": “Behold, I am not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed. I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death. You have no colour now, and I cast you from the order and from the Council.’
If Gandalf the White was so powerful, even showing more power than Sauron, like you said. How come he had no impact on the Witch King when he broke his staff?
Fake news. That confrontation never happened in the books. Unfortunately the movies take a little bit of freedom to change the plot line. It all seriousness gandalf would have wiped the floor with the witch King if you remember when the white council confronted them. They easily defeated the nazgul.
The reason for that is because the Witch King also had a power boost. All the Nazgul's power was relative to Sauron's. In other words, when Sauron became weak, so too did the Nazgul. But as Sauron's power increases, their power also increases.
The Grey. More approachable. More humble. More loving & caring. Which translates into a better man, and all around person, for he never Lords any of it over another. Even when he runs into Sauraman after the war upon the road. Wish that all could be as he.......
Could it be possible also that he was able to be assisted by the sun through it being a Maiar itself? And Gandalf, fighting for all peoples and beings alike on Arda meant that “Men” specifically who rose with the sun would continue to thrive upon Middle Earth.
Gandalf the Grey saw more of him and he made me laugh with his exasperation with Dwarfs. The Hobbit Trilogy are my favourite films and I care not what people say about them. 😁
i feel like gandalf is almost a child or spark of manwhe since he knows so much and patience with the mortal race's still must be so hard to see the world change so fast and see his friends of men die time and time again , he must have kept the hope to see them again in the halls of mandos when he gone back to the undying lands of valinor
I enjoyed Sir Ian McKellen's portrayal of Gandalf to some degree. But... not at all what I envisioned Gandalf to be. Peter Jackson made him a goofball, along with many characters throughout Jackson's movies. Couldn't help but be disappointed. Just my two cents as a fan of Tolkien's work for 35 years.
Gandalf the Grey seemed more human than his reincarnation as the White. The Gandalf that went to the shire and created fireworks was not threatening. However, I think that as the White he easily could've frightened the hobbits not intentionally, but because his power was more obvious. I wonder if Iluvatar intentionally sent both Gandalf and Sauruman knowing that Sauruman had the potential to turn dark and also knowing that Gandalf would never turn dark.
Shoutout to Sir Ian McKellen. The best wandering wizard
“The Ring’s location was coming closer to the Dark Lord”. Literally just a little north 😂
The legend that is that man!!
Here Here 🥂
I sympathize with your position, but I would like to have seen how John Huston would have done, if he were alive for the role. He was masterful in the Rankin & Bass cartoon adaptation.
I loved Sean Connery, but I can't think of almost any other actors as fully qualified and naturally Gandalf-ish as Sir Ian. Ser Patrick Stewart would have been able to pull it off, and I also thought the actor who played Ser Barristan Selmy would've been a good possibility. The Actor playing "The Stranger" in RoP, killed it at capturing some of Sir Ian's mannerisms". I thought his pained looks, joyful smiles, tone of voice, especially in Quenya really remind me of Ian Mckellen.
Gandalf the Grey, only because he seemed more approachable, more like a kindly uncle or grandfather, rather than Gandalf the White who seemed more kingly and majestic.
My sentiment exactly. I feel it would be a good time to sit and have an idle chat with Gandalf the Grey, whereas dining with Gandalf the White would be more of a formal occasion.
"It doesn't matter how many times you kill me, I'll just keep coming back in different colours..."
- Parody Gandalf
LOL!
Feel like watching the movie again! Still remember the first time I saw him go against the Balrog on the big screen had me on the edge of my seat! A year later I saw the EPIC conclusion of that battle. Yep, going to watch it again!
Difficult to choose grey or white! I like Gandalf because of this character arc and transformation. But if i were made to choose I would go Grey simply because this is the amicable and quirky underdog we first meet in the main stories, whose magic is tantalizingly sparing and leaves most to the imagination and wonder.
Dagor Dagoroth please! (throwing in a little personal creativity on how it would unfold would be sick too since it has been an abandoned idea)
Oh yes!! 😁
That would be pretty awesome!
I support this
I second this request. Always enjoy your content.
I've always wondered if Gandalf eventually left his mortal form and became spirit again.
Perhaps one of the reasons an empowered Gandalf doesn't engage directly with Sauron, is that perhaps the people had to earn and learn their freedoms. If given to them, they may not guard it so carefully themselves un the future.
Prophetic words to the future
Gandalf the Gray is my preferred version, he was able to inspire and give hope to all he confronted. He'll give you a nudge in the right direction and ignite the courage in your heart to do the right thing. Gandalf the white, in my opinion, did the same but to a lesser degree because he had the power which he lacked in the gray version to take actions into his own hands.
I like what you said about Gandalf, my only problem with him was he kept a lot of information from the fellowship which helped caused his demise. Like he knew what was in the mines in the first movie but didn’t say anything about it. In the hobbit the first movie, Gandalf knew about the orc Thorin thought was dead and didn’t say anything. I don’t know why he did that but if you have an answer I would love to hear it because I’ve always been curious about that.
@@quintbakerjr2786 Forget the movies. They are Jackson's stories, not Tolkien's.
@@MrKbonez
Oh ok so the movies are written in a different way, ok thank you for the info. I was always curious about that.
*grey
It’s gray or grey depending on USA vs British English
What-if video idea for you to do:
What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?
don't forget the part from the hobbit with the trolls around the campfire. Gandalf suddenly appears out of the shadows just perfectly as the sun rose (which seemed to take the trolls by surprise, they thought it was rising much too early), and thusly turned the trolls to stone, saving Bilbo and the dwarves.
Found this channel by accident but I also just finished Rings of Power. This is unbelievably well made and I shall be binging the rest of your content! Thank you!!
Hope you enjoy! :)
Gandalf the Grey, from just a comparison, he was much more focused on the smaller parts of life. The fall of Gandalf the Grey was a metaphor for what happens to some soldiers going through a tense battle and losing themselves. Much like PTS, Gandalf the White is less gentle with the world around him and not as playful as he had been. Gandalf the Grey was a warmer presence.
Dagor Dagorath please !! I love the way you tell the story like a real storyteller ❤
Noone can tell that story. It has not yet happened lol
His impeccable timing? Well he is never early nor late. I recall he was initially reluctant to go to middle earth, still his desire to return and fulfill his charge, paired with his reluctance to use power, he seemed more like a longer leash and more brevity to flex when he needed
Gandalf the Grey is unaware of his own nature. After fighting the Balrog and subsequently being resurrected, Gandalf the White remembers his own history as a Maia of Nienna. That seems to be the main difference as far as I can tell.
Is that stated, or are you inferring it?
@@stevenschnepp576 When he meets Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas in Fangorn he states that he remembers much that he had forgotten. It kind of implies it.
@@stevenschnepp576 It is implied in Gandalf's statements throughout the books.
Gandalf was very aware of how the use of power could corrupt. Thus he used his powers sparingly, only when absolutely necessary.
That was more about how the valar didnt want them to use their powers
Dagor Dagoroth please! As always fantastic job. You guys have fantastic lore perspectives and knowledge and gave an extremely fair and honest review on the Rings of Power series.
Thank you for all your hard work, it is thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated!
I don't recall Gandalf using magic as a direct weapon - perhaps on Weathertop but otherwise it's fire or light which strike fear into his foes rather than directly injuring them. At the same time, the light or fire inspires his friends and allies. Perhaps the fire he used in the Hobbit to drive off the Wargs was a direct attack, but still it was to drive them away, not kill them. So Gandalf's main role was to be an inspiration (which was supposed to be the role of the Istari) more than an attacker. Even with the Balrog he broke the bridge rather than attacking the Balrog with magic, then he used the sword rather than magic against the foe.
Personally, I like Gandalf the gray. I love the wise but snippy and sarcastic old man with the hint of worry and fear but resolute, strong and determined in the face of it. cunning and loyal but enjoys a good laugh from time to time. Great character. Maybe the greatest character? He’s very fatherly.
As Gandalf the White, he possessed greater charisma and a limited degree of clairvoyance, although he was unable to peer into the land of Mordor to see the progress of Frodo and Sam. His power and authority had increased so that he could break Saruman's staff with a spoken command, showing his authority to throw the treacherous wizard out of the order. He also was successful in preventing Sauron's Eye from locating Frodo.
How did he prevent Sauron's eye from frodo? I didiny ready any books unfortunately
@@lufka3267 end of the fellowship. Frodo is on the seat of seeing and has the ring on and he sees Sauron and Sauron senses him and starts to look for him. Gandalf prevents it and tells frodo to remove the ring from a great distance.
@@kaiserwilli thank you!
His 'power' being almost non existent and only portrayed by vague debatable theories is what ultimately ruins the character for me (at least the part of him being a wizard). Don't get me wrong Ian played the character really well in the movies and the fact that he is shrouded in mystery does make him interesting for a lot of people. But I can't be the only one who is just so tired of wizards and magic in general being downplayed every time (for the good guys at least). The reason that is given for Gandalf lack of showing his power is arguably a bit better than the "I''m out of mana" trope but it is still such an annoying cop-out imo.
@@blaat44 Why shouldn't magic be subtle? Why should it be hurling fireballs and lightning bolts about, when it can instead be a subtle, quiet thing that leaves the viewer mystified as to whether it really was some kind of supernatural power.
While I love the original trilogy in its entirely, there is one scene in the extended version that I do not like at all and I think you all know which I'm talking about--the Witch-King would have never been able to break Gandalf's staff and quite honestly Gandalf in his full power would have annihilated the Witch-King, so that scene went against all that we know about the both of them
I agree with you 100%. If Gandalf the Grey could bring down a Balrog, then Gandalf the White would absolutely destroy the Witch King. I do sometimes wish that Tolkien had written of a straight fight between Gandalf the White and say Khamul at the Black Gate. Seeing a Nazgul being dismembered by Gandalf would have raised a cheer from me. It would probably have left Sauron even more assailed by doubt. With the Witch King and Khamul gone, his remaining Nazgul would be left feeling vulnerable. It would have raised the spirits of the army of Gondor and weakened the resolve of Sauron's.
The best documentary of any character in LoTR or most of any other character.
🙌 Amazing and thank you!
Dagor Dagoroth please!
It's interesting that Gandalf, like Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam, lived a life of restricted power. The theme of "some powers should never be used" seems to echo in Gandalf's character.
My assumption, at least since reading the Silmarilion, was that Gandalf the white had far less, though still very severe, restrictions on his inherent Maiar abilities. I know many read it as he gets an "upgrade" from Manwë or Varda, even both, and I don't find that a silly or strange way to interpret it at all. The former feels right to me, and it seems like "well why would you augment something hobbled already, just free it to a degree", if that makes sense?
When the Istari were sent to Middle-earth, it wasn't known Sauron was still around. The Valar just knew a Shadow was growing yet again in Middle-earth and the Istari were sent as Agents of the Valar to contest this Shadow but not to command or rule the Free Peoples. It was only fully know that Sauron, Enemy of Old, was the Shadow that had been growing when Gandalf ventured into Dol-Guldur a second time in 2850 of the Third Age. Sauron openly declared himself in Third Age 2951.
Gandalf the White was not akin in Power to Sauron even with Sauron without the One Ring. Only with the One Ring could Gandalf be sure of victory against Sauron but as Gandalf & the Three Hunters talked, Gandalf looked East and saw the One Ring was too far away to be an option.
"I have spoken words of hope. But only of hope. Hope is not victory. War is upon us and all our friends, a war in which only the use of the Ring could give us surety of victory. It fills me with great sorrow and great fear: for much shall be destroyed and all may be lost. I am Gandalf, Gandalf the White, but Black is mightier still." - Gandalf the White, The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 5, The White Rider
There were still limitations on what GtW could accomplish. I immediately recalled the "...Black is mightier still," line from the book while watching this video.
@@jggimi I do believe he was alluding to the entire situation not just between himself and Sauron. Sauron still had the 9 which nobody, save himself, could match. He also had a massive army of orcs, trolls , etc. headed to fight against a beleaguered Gondor while Saruman was trying to take down Rohan. So at that very moment when he met the hunters black was very much mightier still. He knew that he alone without the ring could not assure victory against all that. Now if Elrond, Galadriel and himself decided to wield the three it might have been enough as long as Sauron didn't have the one, but they were kinda busy with their own fights in the north at the time.
@@JD-kl8hz Thank you for the explanation!
Gandalf literally admitted that he's more powerful than anyone, unless brought before Sauron himself. That was in The Two Towers. Right when he met the three hunters. There was never any question that Sauron was more powerful.
When the wizards were sent to middle-earth, they were without much of their native power, and even when Gandalf was sent back he still did not possess all of his native powers though they were increased so that he could assume the duties that Saruman betrayed. Sauron entered middle-earth without these restrictions. The Valar learned from prior experience that great damage was done when direct force was used against Morgoth, Sauron’s master in the First Age, so the Istari were sent to inspire the inhabitants of middle-earth to resist rather than direct confrontation.
I dunno. It always comes with the cop out caveat "if suaron has the ring," which I mean... if Gandalf had the ring he'd be even more powerful...
This is like saying I could win a fight with Mike Tyson, if I had a shotgun.
Guess what would happen if Mike had the shotgun...
This was really well done, James!
Yes please on the Dagor Dagorath!
I’ve heard it told that when Morgoth finally escapes from the chain Angainor and is free of the Void, in the final battle it was either Beren, Turin, or Feanor that eventually defeated him (depending on when in building his legendarium and the source).
Firstly I doubt it would be Beren ( the Lay of Beren and Luthien is more Tolkien writing he and his love for Edith into the mythology, and I can’t see him being so proud as to make himself the vanquisher of the ultimate corruption in Ea).
If it were to be Feanor it would make for a fantastic character’s redemption arc if it weren’t for the fact he wrote Feanor so fiercely proud it would defy any logic.
And if it were Turin, it would be befitting for the greatest tragic hero (IMO) of the mythology to have endured the worst of Morgoth to bring about his undoing.
But I think the most important question would be why Christopher Tolkien thought his father might have abandoned the idea?
How strong is the evidence he had, or simply hadn’t found a way to write it?
There is also a version where Melkor finally repents and instead of a Final Battle, there is the Final Music of the Ainur plus the Elves and Men, and "the themes of Illuvatar are played aright"
This is from either the Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales.
Dagor Dagorath please!
I love both Gandalf equally as he always held a purpose and served it diligently
I have watch these movie multiple times and always find something new little things! I finally noticed he's carries his pipe on his staff!
Fantastic video! Keep up the good work 👍
Love this one. Interesting thought at the end when it is stated Gandalf the white could have defeated Sauron.
Knowing the art of war, we all gave a part to play, a burden to carry. There is no sandbagging in life.
Dagor dagorath please
Dagor Daggorath, please! I love how many things it brings full circle, including Feanor being at last released from Mandos to break open a silmaril to restore light to the Trees.
very nice,
nice to get all the differents and buffs all in one video
White had more style but Grey had more vibe...
I can't imagine him as The White shooting up fireworks
Man, excellent video. Thank you 🧡🤠
Both are amazing. We all love Gandalf in any form:)
Amazing video btw and channel..... good luck in future content
Thanks for the video, I found it very interesting. I never thought about it before, but the examples you gave of the connections between Gandalf and the sun remained me of how he defeated the trolls that were planning to cook Thorin and company in The Hobbit.
It's Mithrandir! The White Rider!! Good 1 on 1 for sure..Yeah, a hell in a cell setting would be amazing..Keep up the great work Mellon!!
Ecthelion!
DAGOR DAGORATH PLEASE SIR!
Dagor Dagoroth please! Also just how funny could Frodo and Bilbo's reactions be to Gandalf suddenly turning into Olorin.
Dagor Dagorath Please!! Always love listening while at work!
Grey or White matters little to me. Gandalf is the pinnacle of Tolkien's writings. He's the reason that I fell in love with Middle Earth. I'm fond of most of Tolkien's characters, but Gandalf glues everything together. Without him, so many of the outcomes needed to bring about the downfall of Sauron would not have come to pass.
When as a ten year old, I first read of Gandalf's fall to the Balrog (which at first left me quite distraught), I told myself that Gandalf would want me to be brave and continue reading. I did, mainly in the hope that he wasn't actually dead. At that point, Tolkien hadn't written of Gandalf's actual death, so my hope was that at some point, Gandalf would return. Even today, 45 years later, the White Rider chapter is one of my favourites. ❤❤❤❤❤❤
This one got DEEP.
Amazingly done more !
Knowing somewhat of the scope & the full arc that is Gandalf - if I’m putting that correctly? I’d say the Grey & White are not to be separated and are one in the same. As both hold the all important common trait of putting the greater good, and even the good of a single friend ahead of that of his own. As you mentioned the power in both the grey & white is borrowed. But it is this trait that has these powers bestowed upon him. Despite the color, Gandalf always rose the occasion to the best of his ability with what had been given to him at any particular time of need. So my answer is there is just one Gandalf. It’s not his cloaks, focus of purpose, but his love & respect of all living things that makes him what he is :) Just Gandalf.
"Gandalf the grey, and gandalf the white and monty python and the holy grail's black knight, benito musolini, and the blue meanie, cowbay curtis and jambi the genie,
robocop, the terminator, captain kirk and darth vader, lo-pan, superman, and every single power ranger, bill S preston and Theodore Logan, spock, the rock, dock ock, and hulk hogan all came out of nowhere lightning fast, and they kicked chuck norris in his cowboy ass
it was the bloodiest battle that the world ever saw, with civillians looking on in total awe"
4:00 Oh I love that artwork! Gandalf v Balrog as seen by Gollum!
Dagor Dagorath please
Can u do a video on, if the balrog of Moria ceased the One Ring. That would be very very interesting 🙏
Gandalf the grey. For me i think that is when he is at his wisest and and could be curious about middle earth. But when he becomes the white he has to be serious to get the job done.
🎶And Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White and Monty Python and the Holy Grail's Black Knight... 🎶
My favorite version is Gandalf the Grey. He seems warmer and more personable. However, I think it's probably good that even though Gandalf literally returns from the dead, there is still a sense of loss because the character is not the same.
Gandalf the Grey, if I'm throwing a party.
Gandalf the White, if I'm going to war.
I would assume that the reason why Gandalf didnt flatten Sauron's forces is because, well, thats not really his job. If he did everything for the mortal races, they wouldnt learn anything, would have no achievements and would live in a peace gifted to them. By having them work for it, that achievement is far more impressive.
That being said, I do now have an image in my head of Gandalf facing down Sauron and pull a Yamamoto by summoning a flaming sword that literally scorches everything to ashes.
God I really need to know what you guys use as background music. It fits perfectly with y'alls calm voices
Dagor dagorath please. I would certainly like to hear about this.
very well done
Durin's Bane came back too as Bane the Black... LOL
I likw the idea of the loaning of power, makes sense to me 😃
Now this i will enjoy when i get a wee chance to watch🧙🏾♂️
And I hope you do enjoy it 💚
I love the Honest Trailers covering of this movie.
thanks beautifull vid about Gandalf
And his timing with the sun when he busts the Light on 3 trolls-| Blip!
I had to repeat the first bit to see what you were saying, turns out you were saying sun.. I was wondering who San was for abit. Thanks for the quality vid!
9:28 Erkenrand, I swear I thought you made a Skyrim reference 😂 (Irkngthrand)
One of my favorite characters in fiction!
And monty python and the holy grails black Knight...
Deep reference there. Good luck everyone
I remember that song!
@@AzraelAlpha I wondered how long it would take someone to notice haha
I will say the power of the wizards came both from their nature, live experiences, and knowledge, the last one being very important.
I think the reason why Gandalf did not go on to fight Sauron directly is because his original quest was to inspire men to conquer their foe. The Ring Narya probably helped inspire the men to accomplish this.
He leveled up, that is where the concept in role playing games like D&D came from the rest of it was from table top war gaming.
Dagor Dagorath please!
Excellent work!
*"They call me Gandalf The Grey but when you see me I'm white."*
- Gandalf Grey the mixtape
Oh, without a doubt, they Grey is my favorite. The White is vastly more intimidating (not that the Grey isn't intimidating), but there is such a humorous and loving quality to the Grey that I have always enjoyed much more.
What I like is how Gandalf moves through in the book that was way more powerful than most all of the others in the book actually went through his own hero quest and grew as needed to help his mission move forward. It just reminds me why I love the Lord of the Rings.
Dagor Dagoroth please!!
Gandalf was the first character I ever liked.
Gandalf the Grey clearly, he is a wanderer who protects the people of Middle Earth and is a caring soul.
Did anyone else keep having the ultimate showdown start playing in there head? Just me? 😂
Directly from the book, The Two Towers; Gandalf The White addresses Saruman "of many colours": “Behold, I am not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed. I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death. You have no colour now, and I cast you from the order and from the Council.’
Gandalf "Fool you haven't even seen my final form"
If Gandalf the White was so powerful, even showing more power than Sauron, like you said. How come he had no impact on the Witch King when he broke his staff?
Fake news. That confrontation never happened in the books. Unfortunately the movies take a little bit of freedom to change the plot line. It all seriousness gandalf would have wiped the floor with the witch King if you remember when the white council confronted them. They easily defeated the nazgul.
The reason for that is because the Witch King also had a power boost. All the Nazgul's power was relative to Sauron's. In other words, when Sauron became weak, so too did the Nazgul. But as Sauron's power increases, their power also increases.
I really liked this one! Also Dagor Dagoroth! ;)
Dagor Dagorath Please! Love your videos
The Grey.
More approachable.
More humble.
More loving & caring.
Which translates into a better man, and all around person, for he never Lords any of it over another.
Even when he runs into Sauraman after the war upon the road.
Wish that all could be as he.......
Could it be possible also that he was able to be assisted by the sun through it being a Maiar itself? And Gandalf, fighting for all peoples and beings alike on Arda meant that “Men” specifically who rose with the sun would continue to thrive upon Middle Earth.
Gandalf the Grey saw more of him and he made me laugh with his exasperation with Dwarfs. The Hobbit Trilogy are my favourite films and I care not what people say about them. 😁
I also liked The Hobbit Trilogy.
Up next, a video about monty python and the holy grail's black night
I always found The Gray to be more humorous and endearing.
Dagor Dagoroth
Please
i feel like gandalf is almost a child or spark of manwhe since he knows so much and patience with the mortal race's still must be so hard to see the world change so fast and see his friends of men die time and time again , he must have kept the hope to see them again in the halls of mandos when he gone back to the undying lands of valinor
Dagor Dagorlad Please!
Dagor dagorath please
Very interested in discussion of morgoths return from the walls of night
Here's hoping we all live long enough to see someone else get a shot at making a 2cd age adaptation
That one is white, and the other one is grey duh😉❤love your channel
Dagor Dagoroth! Please make it as long and detailed as possible!
I enjoyed Sir Ian McKellen's portrayal of Gandalf to some degree. But... not at all what I envisioned Gandalf to be. Peter Jackson made him a goofball, along with many characters throughout Jackson's movies. Couldn't help but be disappointed. Just my two cents as a fan of Tolkien's work for 35 years.
Gandalf the Grey seemed more human than his reincarnation as the White. The Gandalf that went to the shire and created fireworks was not threatening. However, I think that as the White he easily could've frightened the hobbits not intentionally, but because his power was more obvious. I wonder if Iluvatar intentionally sent both Gandalf and Sauruman knowing that Sauruman had the potential to turn dark and also knowing that Gandalf would never turn dark.
Love your videos! Do you still make “what if” videos?