One thing I really love Blood and Iron teaching video is that they almost always show the counter measure, or a series of counters. Not just a simple move. Make it very different from others.
That "what if" is a funny question in a martial art. And fundamental the same time because always having more than one option is exactly what it is about.
Absolutely! It's a very important question because it really helps a student understand that this is a system, not a series of tricks. I love it when people want to know more. Where it becomes problematic is when people just throw out a "Well this technique is stupid, what if they just do this?"
Julian Schuetze I am a bit surprised students don't already know. Probably I watched so many youtube videos about HEMA by now that I start taking things for granted not everybody knows.
I love to hear 'what if' from a student because it means I won - the student understands the mechanism, is fully invested in it and is trying to relate it to other things they know and explore its possibilities. Before and after are both happening in their head.
This is a long exchange for actual combat, but stupidly short for spectacle. That's what makes real life sword fighting unfit for spectacle and dull for the unobservant. It's not overly energetic at a visual level and it gets someone hit FAST
As Skall said, there's no unbeatable techiniques, save ending him rightly of course... but we don't want to destroy the whole surrounding city do we?, and every technique has a counter which also has a counter. So instead of necessarily thinking this techinique is useless because it can be countered like this, you should instead think how can I make my opponent mess up and throw off their timing just long enough so that the time when they had the ability to counter passes by. There's only so many things you can do in one tempo and your goal should be to attack quick enough or disbalance your opponent enough so that they don't have enough time or ability to counter your techinique. Really good video, guys. Blood and Iron is one of the best clubs out there :) !
I believe there is a time to demonstrate techniques without interruption and a time to get into counter-arguments that are the basis of research. It is just a matter of your students knowing the right time for each.
As someone who has asked such questions: sometimes we're really trying to understand! I know that HEMA people have a lot of academic and practical knowledge, so if it seems like there's an obvious option left out of an example, then I probably missed something.
For sure. There's a fine line between "Oh, I see. And then if they do this, what do I do? What are the options?", and "Well that's dumb. What if they just do this?" Basically the difference between an individual wanting to further their understanding, and an internet smartass ;)
Honestly, from my experience the actual most common answer to "what if they do this?" is "they won't do that". And the answer to "why won't they do that?" generally is "because it's not a technique". Instructors that actually acknowledge that someone might do something unexpected or outside-of-style are the minority, which is unfortunate because they're the best instructors to have. I'm guessing this issue isn't nearly as common in HEMA since it's not as heavily competition-oriented, I've mostly seen it in "Olympic" versions of various eastern martial arts.
Well it is basically a play from Meyer (1.26r.1 if I recall correctly) the only difference is that they show it with a descending true edge cut after the wrench instead of a false edge cut like it is described in the play.
Wouldn't you keep moving all the way through the final cut? There is going to be another step with every block, parry, or cut just about right? Moving off the line, at a 45, circling etc.
I feel like I would never be able to react so fast.. to know what I am doing and what is doing my opponent and what should I do best.. Is that fear to do mistake?
I do have a question that is semi-related to this. I remember since my first lesson in German longsword my teacher telling me, "if your opponent is defending" which he later defined as "blocking the attack without presenting threat" then "you are winning". Assuming I described the idea right, is this idea correct in a HEMA context, or is there something we're misunderstanding? I ask because a couple of times I saw that Nicole was defending against Sean's attacks without really presenting any real threat to him.
TheSparda81 While I am not an expert on sword fighting, I wouldn't consider being on the defense to be a losing battle. I also wouldn't consider constantly pressing the attack to be winning. As long as no one is receiving a successful bit, it's a stalemate until someone manages to get a strike in. And being on the defensive could have benefits such as making a sudden attack be all the more surprising for the enemy.
I believe, it's better to consider on the offense/defense as more like "dictating the terms of engagement" and "responding to the terms of engagement." You CAN be defending and still dictating the terms, but it's rare. The idea is that you need to be the one controlling when/what/why things happen, not your opponent. Same idea as in chess! The moment you start purely responding to your opponent's moves without making attempts to force him to respond to yours, that's when your loss is guaranteed.
Dacino Hoihe I disagree. Going on the defensive could potentially lull the opponent into being countered. As for your analogy, while I do not play chess, I have played checkers that has similar scenarios. A lot of times, my adversary or I won being on the defense after making wise moves (I know checkers and chess aren't the same. I'm just using checkers as an example). Another analogy I would use is that armies falling back or retreating can sometimes help them win the day. Don't get me wrong, it is an uphill battle and there is a good chance of losing. But a guaranteed loss? I disagree. Mind you, fights can go in various ways as par for the course of the chatoic nature of combat.
What happens when the opponent dose not know HEMA? Did you know that each and every move that could ever be made with a sword is available to anyone who puts the time in. When it comes to the sword, I understand I know just nothing!
wow that looks exhausting to be the aggressor. So much movement on his part and stopped easily, but of course you can't win a duel without attacking and their wasn't much countering.
Years of training historical German pronunciation: 0 ;) Though there is certainly wrong ways to pronounce, given the number of dialects and different spellings we see for the techniques I will venture that no one can nail down an exactly 'right' way to say them.
Sean Franklin Yep, you're right. Of course different manuals were written in different dialects. Middle Low German, Middle High German (Mittelhochdeutsch), Early New High German (Frühneuhochdeutsch) et cetera, so nailing the pronunciation for someone who's not native german speaker is hard... BUT I'm pretty sure that "w" in german was always pronunced like "v" and "z" like "ts" :)
![ประสบการณ์ จ้าง Developer ที่ผมจะไม่มีวันลืม [ภาค1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bzivN4KDg-k/mqdefault.jpg)
One thing I really love Blood and Iron teaching video is that they almost always show the counter measure, or a series of counters. Not just a simple move. Make it very different from others.
That "what if" is a funny question in a martial art. And fundamental the same time because always having more than one option is exactly what it is about.
Absolutely! It's a very important question because it really helps a student understand that this is a system, not a series of tricks. I love it when people want to know more.
Where it becomes problematic is when people just throw out a "Well this technique is stupid, what if they just do this?"
Julian Schuetze I am a bit surprised students don't already know. Probably I watched so many youtube videos about HEMA by now that I start taking things for granted not everybody knows.
I love to hear 'what if' from a student because it means I won - the student understands the mechanism, is fully invested in it and is trying to relate it to other things they know and explore its possibilities. Before and after are both happening in their head.
And people say realistic sword fighting doesn't look cool
This is a long exchange for actual combat, but stupidly short for spectacle. That's what makes real life sword fighting unfit for spectacle and dull for the unobservant. It's not overly energetic at a visual level and it gets someone hit FAST
well since you can script it,make the HEMA fight scene longer,I dont see how this is even an issue to begin with
@@scissorman44 Bruh you are so annoying
Super-charged 4-dimensional turbo chess :), so complicated yet elegant in its simplicity. A paradox that hums and shimmers softly,
Yeknodathon I like that picture :)
As Skall said, there's no unbeatable techiniques, save ending him rightly of course... but we don't want to destroy the whole surrounding city do we?, and every technique has a counter which also has a counter. So instead of necessarily thinking this techinique is useless because it can be countered like this, you should instead think how can I make my opponent mess up and throw off their timing just long enough so that the time when they had the ability to counter passes by. There's only so many things you can do in one tempo and your goal should be to attack quick enough or disbalance your opponent enough so that they don't have enough time or ability to counter your techinique. Really good video, guys. Blood and Iron is one of the best clubs out there :) !
Vor and Nach concepts flowing between Sean and Nicole, beautiful demonstration.
I believe there is a time to demonstrate techniques without interruption and a time to get into counter-arguments that are the basis of research. It is just a matter of your students knowing the right time for each.
This would take a lot of trust in the other person, because they don't have any protection on or anything.
What I like about the Swole Nerd Duo is that they look very well practiced, as if their moves are familiar to them.
I love the word and letter analogy.
As someone who has asked such questions: sometimes we're really trying to understand! I know that HEMA people have a lot of academic and practical knowledge, so if it seems like there's an obvious option left out of an example, then I probably missed something.
For sure. There's a fine line between "Oh, I see. And then if they do this, what do I do? What are the options?", and "Well that's dumb. What if they just do this?"
Basically the difference between an individual wanting to further their understanding, and an internet smartass ;)
Honestly, from my experience the actual most common answer to "what if they do this?" is "they won't do that". And the answer to "why won't they do that?" generally is "because it's not a technique". Instructors that actually acknowledge that someone might do something unexpected or outside-of-style are the minority, which is unfortunate because they're the best instructors to have.
I'm guessing this issue isn't nearly as common in HEMA since it's not as heavily competition-oriented, I've mostly seen it in "Olympic" versions of various eastern martial arts.
One of the worst things an opponent could do in a sword fight is pull out a hidden knife when you least expect it.
Worse yet is if they pull out a pommel
Braden Vande Plasse You got that right. About lost a tooth, because of that.
Very Meyer-y exchange there.
Needs moar winden
Well it is basically a play from Meyer (1.26r.1 if I recall correctly) the only difference is that they show it with a descending true edge cut after the wrench instead of a false edge cut like it is described in the play.
Wouldn't you keep moving all the way through the final cut? There is going to be another step with every block, parry, or cut just about right? Moving off the line, at a 45, circling etc.
They were moving... And you don't always move your feet.
I feel like I would never be able to react so fast.. to know what I am doing and what is doing my opponent and what should I do best.. Is that fear to do mistake?
I train- for my own- for sth I am actually scared of..
I do have a question that is semi-related to this. I remember since my first lesson in German longsword my teacher telling me, "if your opponent is defending" which he later defined as "blocking the attack without presenting threat" then "you are winning". Assuming I described the idea right, is this idea correct in a HEMA context, or is there something we're misunderstanding? I ask because a couple of times I saw that Nicole was defending against Sean's attacks without really presenting any real threat to him.
TheSparda81 While I am not an expert on sword fighting, I wouldn't consider being on the defense to be a losing battle. I also wouldn't consider constantly pressing the attack to be winning. As long as no one is receiving a successful bit, it's a stalemate until someone manages to get a strike in. And being on the defensive could have benefits such as making a sudden attack be all the more surprising for the enemy.
I believe, it's better to consider on the offense/defense as more like "dictating the terms of engagement" and "responding to the terms of engagement." You CAN be defending and still dictating the terms, but it's rare. The idea is that you need to be the one controlling when/what/why things happen, not your opponent. Same idea as in chess! The moment you start purely responding to your opponent's moves without making attempts to force him to respond to yours, that's when your loss is guaranteed.
Dacino Hoihe I disagree. Going on the defensive could potentially lull the opponent into being countered. As for your analogy, while I do not play chess, I have played checkers that has similar scenarios. A lot of times, my adversary or I won being on the defense after making wise moves (I know checkers and chess aren't the same. I'm just using checkers as an example). Another analogy I would use is that armies falling back or retreating can sometimes help them win the day. Don't get me wrong, it is an uphill battle and there is a good chance of losing. But a guaranteed loss? I disagree. Mind you, fights can go in various ways as par for the course of the chatoic nature of combat.
It´s hard to suprice when your aponent has studied the same books workt with the same theatchers.
Use attacks that they don't teach lol.
Do they teach pommel throwing?
What happens when the opponent dose not know HEMA? Did you know that each and every move that could ever be made with a sword is available to anyone who puts the time in. When it comes to the sword, I understand I know just nothing!
wow that looks exhausting to be the aggressor. So much movement on his part and stopped easily, but of course you can't win a duel without attacking and their wasn't much countering.
Years of training HEMA... and they still can't pronounce names of techniques ;)
Years of training historical German pronunciation: 0 ;)
Though there is certainly wrong ways to pronounce, given the number of dialects and different spellings we see for the techniques I will venture that no one can nail down an exactly 'right' way to say them.
Sean Franklin Yep, you're right. Of course different manuals were written in different dialects. Middle Low German, Middle High German (Mittelhochdeutsch), Early New High German (Frühneuhochdeutsch) et cetera, so nailing the pronunciation for someone who's not native german speaker is hard...
BUT I'm pretty sure that "w" in german was always pronunced like "v" and "z" like "ts" :)