I'll worry about that after I figure out how this video popped up on my notifications 30 minutes ago while your comment is posted 2 days ago. Wtf over?
if you were from the land of GRUNGE and RAIN youd be grumpy too... I would say i can see HOP moshing to SCREAMING TREES but i bet he prefers MINUTEMEN instead... ASSUMING he knows
Yes, but did you predict this comment would be about the Mercedes CLR GTR, a remarkable racing car celebrated for it's outstanding performance and sleek design?
Been saying this to my friends for years. “You have an eye catching etched reticle. Try actually training with that rather than worry about what the people on Reddit who don’t train say.”
Against the wisdom of this video I recently bought a P4XI w/ the P3TR reticle for $400. However in my defense, I bought it because of the glass clarity, weight, (and because I always wanted one). Funny enough the red dot brightness wasn’t a huge draw. I think there’s a space for great 1-4Xs to make a comeback (people still love the 3.5x ACOG)
I am a big fan of my credo 1-6 sfp. I like it because the circle around the reticle is large enough to draw my eye to the center of the reticle, but it doesn't get in the way of shooting at long ranges. Realistically in the ranges I typically shoot, I could use a red dot+magnifier combo, but I also occasionally reach out well beyond 400 yards. I also like how fine the reticle is at those ranges. I've taken it out to around 700, and while not easy, hits are obtainable. I only wish it had wind holds.
Been telling people SFP is where it’s at for LPVO’s for years. AND usually you get a much brighter reticle if you want 😉 Good thing about a simple dot illumination like the vortex gen 2E is that if you’re shooting in an awkward position, and you have bad scope shadow, you can still see the red center but not the cross hair, and get your hits.
I'm still using my Viper PST Gen II 1-6x. It's a little heavy, and every month or two I catch myself checking my budget and wondering about an upgrade to the PLX-C, but every time I actually go out and run the thing I come home thinking "That was just fine. I don't wanna change it." It's the Vanilla LPVO- boringly good, taken for granted, and people in the past would've seen it as a luxury. I bought the Viper because I had a Credo 1-4x with a straight duplex crosshair and basically was thinking "I want this, but with a little more mag and some BDC." The Credo got sold to a guy who said he had built a .50 Beowulf and needed a hunting scope. To each his own...
I've used a buddies PLXc even on a stage for a match... I honestly prefer my Razor 1-6 the 1x is noticeably better tge PLXc is only good relative to other FFPs .... I'd just keep your viper honestly
The only issue I had with mine was that the o-ring on the red dot tower worked it self out and would need Vortex to work on it, besides that was super clear
Viper pst gen 2 for me isnt clear enough. I have trijicon accupoint 1-4 and credo 1-6 ffp. The trijicon is crystal clear. Mag over 6, eyebox starts to be unforgiven.
After buying like 5-6 LPVO's, I finally realized I just really don't like them and am now sticking to my red dots and ACOGs. I'm probably not going to see targets at ranges beyond that in Appalachia anyway.
I found that prism sights were the answer to what I wanted in an optic. Cheaper than LPVOs, brighter BDC reticle with better battery life, less fragile, with the downsides of shitty eye relief and no variable magnification. Not perfect, but it works for me
Yeah my 5x prism scope is like a poor man's Acog. I got it because red dots looked blurry with astigmatism, like it for it's simplicity and ruggedness. Has illumination but rarely use it in daytime.
@@MAWA2024 same here, found out I cant use red dots when I finally bought one for my edc and the reticle looked like a giant smudge thanks to astigmatisms. Another W for prism sights
@@marcinzdunek2902 not true. I had contacts, they actually make astigmatism worse. Have since had cataract surgery but the astigmatism is still there. Just part of getting old, you'll see.
Great video! You and Brass Facts should definitely get into some discussions about optimum range for weapon systems and their scopes. So many folks think that just because a 16" AR can hit a target the size of a Subaru at 1k yards...that it is a 1,000 yard gun. You can have a 15 lbs precision bolt gun with a 5-25x in your hands, but if 3 Roblox bad guys jump you at 75 yards, maybe don't use the sniper rifle. And definitely don't jump up and spin before using it. Keep up the great work!
Pretty same as one older guy in local hunting club. Eyesight had worsened at point he lost his drivers license but still wanted to keep hunt and replaced his old scope with somekind of planet observation device. Well first time in hunt and he had scope cranked to Pluto level magnification and suddenly moose ran past of 50 meters of him. Lifted a gun but didnt shoot. Later asked why he didnt shoot and he replied i could count brown hair strands but did see moose itself anywhere so he was not sure where to shoot and didnt want to risk random gut shot.
The ATACR 1-8, NX-8 1-8, and the Vortex 1-10 all use similar reticles with similar daytime bright illumination. They are useable on 1x even without illumination. I just accidentally forgot to turn on the illumination in my 2-gun comp and had no issues. And I managed just fine on 10x, which most guntubers claim you will die if you try using it on the highest magnification.
The vcog sco might unironically be a heavy ass unicorn. It's truly bright for a reflector type, battery life is measured in weeks not hours, the reticle makes a good amount of sense, it's the whole package, it just weighs a ton and costs 2k.
Here I am still running a VCOG 1-6x24, and still completely love it. Tad heavy, but the battery life on a single AA is about 400 hours, great glass, enough zoomies for what I need, and a "combat" tough housing. I feel like I get my cake and eat it too with the VCOG. 😋
this is why i like the 1-8 atacr so much. the brightness is real nice sure - but the reticle is completely useable at 1x without the reticle on. my findings are quite different - i like that german style reticle because I played a lot of mohaa back in the day with the kar98 sniper
I got a few scopes to try out and settled on the atacr 1-8, myself. Like you said, it's what works best for you, that's the most important factor. The plxc is cool and all but I don't care about the scope body "dissappearing", especially since I generally run caps. On all other aspects. I feel the atacr or nx8 beats the plxc. I think Hop puts way too much weighting on the 1x performance when comparing these lpvo, and I feel 1x needs to have red dot bright illumination to really be a good 1x, so the plxc ain't for me, no matter how many TH-camrs say it's the best.
Honestly my 1-8 atacr is disappointing compared so some others I’ve tried. Sure it’s tough but 1x has fish eye. 8x is like looking through a toilet paper tube. Glass is clear. It’s bright af but as discussed that’s kind of a non factor
@aaa3d473 What scope is your preference? Why is brightness a non factor? A scope that isn't daylight bright will not pick up as easily or as fast, especially on bright days or on backgrounds that are reddish. At that point, you are better off turning the illumination off with those scopes, whereas red dot bright scopes can power through those tough spots, when needed.
@@SquallWulfhart because the reticle designs trump the brightness that as stated in the video is measured in a few hours. Even my atacr reticle was dog water without the brightness on. A good 1-6 sfp with a good reticle beats a 1-8 ffp where you can’t see the thing if the batteries die imo. I’m all aboard the credo 1-6 train as well I sold my atacr because of this.
@aaa3d473 I prefer FFP, but I'll have to look into the Credo, never hurts to have more options. I really like the FC-DMx reticle on the atacr for long range and the brightness makes the 1x very usable. But yeah, I keep 5 or so spare batteries in the foregrip and I'm good about turning off the illumination, so the battery factor doesn't bother me, but I can see how it could be a deal breaker to others.
Simulated TH-cam comment responses get a hearty chuckle from me. Enjoyable humor element. I also enjoy seeing brass facts without having to listen to what I assume is Mormon grammar.
It’s simple Two kinds of relevant lpvos: 1-6 SFP BDC for duty type weapons 1-8 FFP Mil based reticles for a more marksman type role You won’t need ffp on a 6x and 1-10 is too much strain on the optical system If you aren’t willing to not use a red dot on the gun then do not buy an lpvo that’s just dumb With an lpvo you either need bright illumination or good reticle design, both are not necessary but having both is nice The thick crosshairs of a fiber wire reticle are great for fast shooting plus you get the bright dot to draw your eye to the center The circle dot reticle styles with many SFP non fiber wire reticles are also great and the less bright illumination provides plenty of contrast when needed And an ffp reticle with a “T post” on 1X does really well without illumination But at the end of the day you don’t want a reticle that requires illumination to work well because batteries die and then you have to use whatever reticle you got That said, get a razor 1-6 for your AR (or something similar) and be happy Got an SPR or Recce gun? Snag an ATACR 1-8, won’t feel nearly as nice as the razor does but hey, you got your FFP grid reticle and daylight bright illumination so be happy Can’t afford those? Snag a Venom 1-6, absolutely wonderful optic, just be careful not to drop it or crank the throw lever too hard Or for a little more snag a PST 1-6 although it ain’t got the BDC reticle of the razor And if weight is the name of the game for you check out the PLx-C line as they seem to be very well rounded optics Thanks for attending my Ted talk!
@@BigJazzHands because at 8X your fov will be smaller than at 6x Most 556 BDC holds start at 300 yards You may end up too zoomed in at 300 yards on 8x compared to 6x But with an SFP you have to be all the way zoomed in to use holds so you don’t get a choice, so with a 6x you get more fov of the battle space while having your reticle be accurate Is it a debilitating difference? No, with with an SFP 8x you might find yourself zooming in and out between targets whereas with a 6x you probably gonna be just find leaving it at 6x for spotting and engaging targets
Your break down of brightness levels is pretty good. I had to chuckle about your comment on FFP being a flex thing, it’s very true and most reticles suck at 1x and are unusable. One of the few ones that can function without it are the Trijicon VCOG/credo models. The battery life thing was 100% true. I also agree 100% the 1-6 SFP credo is the scope guys should get. Bright enough but not a basic simple cross hair. You should’ve never sold it.
I purchased the Credo 1-6 sfp with red bdc semi circle today and have been reading a ton of things about people liking the credo hx with red bdc hunter reticle due to daytime bright illumination. All their info and criticisms of the other reticles starting giving me buyers remorse. This video makes me feel better about my original purchase and reaffirms my intent and usage with an LVPO and I can't wait to receive it!
I need to thank you for this video I was already starting to get past HAVING to have DLB since most of the time i was shooting without my illum on anyway After getting a plx i realized how much moreni appreciated a good reticle over a red mark in my optic I recently bought another LPVO with a real reticle over the simple Fiberwire thanks to a bit more critical thinking Appreciate it as always
LPVO’s just don’t do what everyone seems they think they do; naively they are seen as the universal optic, if that makes sense. Granted, in a lot of ways they are cool, I can’t deny that. However, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Folks expect these things to do exactly what they do on paper and on the flat range, in real life. If more people had to run around with these in an actual light infantry capacity, they would quickly find their LPVO’s back in the box and replaced with a red dot or irons, on a much more minimalistic carbine. I fear this optic has arisen to the popularity it’s attained solely based on uninformed theory crafting and leisurely shooting. Tight eye boxes and limited fields of view in an unwieldy tube just feel so suffocating under stress and tactical movements; and let’s not forget the weight of these things on top of that. JMHO
You forgot to mention the Razor 1-6 JM-1 which has a BDC reticle that can range 9 inch gongs and is calibrated to Jerry's 60 grain handloads from an 18" barrel!
I read the title of this video and knew I was going to love it. Not even having watched this yet, this will be about the " must be daylight bright" gang.
Something that this video reminded me of is that one of the neat new features of the XM157 LPVO's for the NGSW program is that it gives you the benefit of both worlds via using a transparent digital display in addition to the etched reticle. Thus the XM157 gives you red dot brightness in any color while also allowing it to display any information you need such as range, directions via the scopes digital compass, wind, temperature, and your current holds, etc.
Daylight visible is enough for me on everything but a red dot. I only need just enough light to see my reticle. I’m a HUGE fan of both-eyes-open shooting. When I have a magnified optic, I keep my front scope cap closed for close-range occluded shooting with both eyes open. When the range opens up, I use the scope traditionally, and I only need just enough brightness for some contrast.
I ended up buying my first Aimpoint T2 (20+ year EOTech user) and Romeo 4T Pro (3x) because of you. Currently running a Razor HD Gen-II e w/ Romeo 4TP @ 12o'clock, on a Reptilia AUS/ROF mount on my 16" MCX Spear 308. Was already planning on switching out the LPVO to a PLxC Mil Griffin in FDE for weight savings and the extra features! This combo just seems like the best of both worlds! Less than zero interest in the NOVA unless maybe I wanted to run it on something with no secondary Red Dot, but I have T2's, RMR HRS's and P2's on all my LPVO's anyway!
I straight up forgot my vortex LPVO even has an illuminated reticle because it ran out of battery a long time ago. Still using it well in competitions every month or two
I have never felt so vindicated with a purchase as I do with my 1-6 Credo 😂 I think between you and Brass Facts there’s now like 4 videos reminding people of how awesome that scope is
I agree with this mostly because I am too poor for SFP and have just always used FFP. I also use the “you are either all the way zoomed in or all the way zoomed out” mentality which is why on my main rifle I ended up landing on a 4XT pro and Juliet 5x that i’ve been using for the past year and love.
This one might set a new record of how many times I agree with Hop per minute, including the sponsor message because the hybrid EDC belt is great and I also bought a second one to have one tan and one black. Although from a user standpoint it's mostly irrelevant, some (higher-end) scopes illuminate the etched reticle with a diffraction grating instead of reflective elements, which should have way less light emitted out the front. No, I don't know which scopes, no one really seems to be publishing that info.
I agree with this video and found it to be good food for thought. Thanks. My intuition told me the trijicon was probably worth. My concerns are generally battery life and durability.
@@Kremit_the_ForgI’m with him on it. That seems to be a silly thing to be that concerned about. That being said, I’ve never been in a gun fight and hope I NEVER have to.
Went to a class with a unused Romeo 4t pro, batteries died at the end of the day. Had batteries on body. As close as that drills targets where just nailed then thru body of optic then swapped batteries from the line. As long as battery compartments are tooless and batteries on rifle or body, think it's overblown in most scenarios.
This video encapsulates some of why i just cant get behind an LPVO. They has too little useable magnification for good range (PID and all that), small objectives, and worst of all either usually a poor 1x reticle or force me to shoot everything on 6x or 8x to be accurate on the BDC. Im glad that everyone else likes them, i just cant bring myself to be all too interested.
The Norden bomb sight famously used in the second World War high altitude strategic bombing campaigns supposedly used actual human hairs for its crosshairs. The donor was a individual woman who donated her hair to the war effort. And yeah LPVOs are cool I guess.
Agreed on the trijicon credo 1-6x. It's pretty much the ideal of an lvpo. Anything more than 6× has such a tiny eyebox that a traditional scope is far more practical
I love the reticle on my PA Nova. For my preferences and uses the red dot bright center dot and simple clean reticle with minimal information is perfect for me
Counter-counter-counter-point (ackshually): a thicker reticle that's "RDS bright" is only a *marginal* drawback *within the distances at which the 5.56 round can still effectively hit*, and considering that most encounters IRL (cough RITTENHOUSE cough cough, or just police encounters with long guns) happen within 100 yards, having something with red dot-ish capabilities outweighs that drawback. I am a master-debater. You can admit my spectacular disputational victory in your next video, no attribution necessary.
Good points Hop. The way I see it... the most important part of a LPVO by far is the 1x. If you don't need the optic to work well at 1x, then why are you bothering with a LPVO? And if that take isn't hot enough, I believe balance is more important that overall weight for carbines.
I know that a lot of people with less then daylight bright LPVOs can shoot close by using the reticle brackets, having said that there are some daylight bright scopes. My current favorite is the Primary Arms PLX-c with the Nova reticle and is SFP. At 1 power it is a daylight bright dot, at 8 power it significantly helps with target identification and hit probability out past 300 yards. I know it is new on the market but I think the best comparable is probably the Vortex 1-6 but the PA is lighter, shorter, more magnification, better reticle, a tad brighter on the dot.
I have the Nikon p-223 lpvo yes its not the best but i have had it for years and it has never lost zero the glass is clean as hell!!! Its 1.5 to 4.5 magnification and has a BDC reticle!!!! I live in a flat commie state called Illinois and that optic works for me!!!!
The most important aspect of any scope used for survival, self-defense, or military use is always how robust it is. Longevity and toughness eclipses illumination in the real world.
My first lpvo and second scope I own is a 1-4x credo with the duplex reticle for my .350 legend ar upper, and so far, it's pretty nice. It's my first higher end scope, and the first time I have ever been able to pull up the turret and set my zero to zero, which is quite awesome to be able to do ngl. Honestly, it does the job just fine as far as i can tell, and it should be great for hunting deer and hogs down here in Texas.
Idk I definitely agree that if you’re shooting in that close up 15 yards and in you want 1x, and at 100 yard ranges I want 6x but I’ve shot at other ranges in between and I don’t like picking up the target at 6x but I could still use a little magnification.
You mentioned "horse hair or whatever" for early cross hairs and I can tell you that as a former zookeeper doing presentations on southeastern Louisiana wildlife, the Golden Silk spider's webbing was used for making those early reticles.
You said it. 2nd focal plane is better! Thanks Hop. When was the last time someone ranged on anything less than full magnification? (except L.E. tactical marksman). How many people even know how range with a reticle.
Purpose is the operating word. I mainly run a Primary Arms Nova 1-6 SFP (with some upgrades) for local sort of friendly/hard on gear two gun training/competition which is mainly 200 yards and in. Agree with Hop that something like the PA PLxC is a better scope for most other purposes.
Thank you for explaining the LPVO in an easy-to-understand way. I now definitely don't want one! By the way, Hop, you made it to 200,000 subscribers! Congratulations, man! :D
It doesn't matter what you say, every comment on every LPVO video ever:
"but is it red dot bright"?
Fix them with hammers
Every.... Single.... One.
@@JetorgXIIIor lasers?!
I'll worry about that after I figure out how this video popped up on my notifications 30 minutes ago while your comment is posted 2 days ago. Wtf over?
People have yet to discover the offset/piggyback
No Hop doesn't hate everything (just most things). But even when he's talking about something he loves he still manages to sound grumpy.
By grumpy do you mean no bull shit??
if you were from the land of GRUNGE and RAIN youd be grumpy too... I would say i can see HOP moshing to SCREAMING TREES but i bet he prefers MINUTEMEN instead... ASSUMING he knows
Being from Houston, i dig Primary Arms 1-6 acss lpvo at about 300$...
Except his cat
@@tireballastserviceofflorid7771people aren't allowed to be no bullshit anymore, not sure when it happened but i hate it
@5:21 "This fucking Halo nerd!" - Me, a fucking Halo nerd.
RIP Echo 419 :(
😂😂😂
You know our motto, we deliver!
A review of a handgun from the '90s will be an excellent, nostalgia-bait return to classic-era Hop
A s&w 5906 with an rmr and an x300 on a rail adapter would be vibes.
He needs to get his hands on a Beretta cougar. About the only 90s Beretta he hasn't reviewed
SARCO is selling a bunch of jerichos rn
Megastar 10mm review pls
@@JeremyJones-nt4ks if they are the real 90s ones awesome. the 2022 and later ones were downgraded.
Hop is really holding onto the BUIS slight at Thunder Ranch.
😂😂
Yes, but did you predict this comment would be about the Mercedes CLR GTR, a remarkable racing car celebrated for it's outstanding performance and sleek design?
clK gtr. Get it right
Are those the ones that would do the spontaneous backflips?
CLK*
CLK won gt1
The CLR is the mercedes that did backflips at lemon but not the mercedes lemon flip that killed 81 people
Is it red dot bright?
Been saying this to my friends for years. “You have an eye catching etched reticle. Try actually training with that rather than worry about what the people on Reddit who don’t train say.”
Against the wisdom of this video I recently bought a P4XI w/ the P3TR reticle for $400. However in my defense, I bought it because of the glass clarity, weight, (and because I always wanted one). Funny enough the red dot brightness wasn’t a huge draw. I think there’s a space for great 1-4Xs to make a comeback (people still love the 3.5x ACOG)
That's still one of the best lpvos ever, especially if you don't have to pay 800 bucks for it.
400 was a no brainer for this one. I did the same thing.
@@Hoplopfheilwhat if it has the other PX4i reticle?
But where, tho?
Same , on sale at Euro optic for $499, best $500 scope on the market
I am a big fan of my credo 1-6 sfp. I like it because the circle around the reticle is large enough to draw my eye to the center of the reticle, but it doesn't get in the way of shooting at long ranges. Realistically in the ranges I typically shoot, I could use a red dot+magnifier combo, but I also occasionally reach out well beyond 400 yards. I also like how fine the reticle is at those ranges. I've taken it out to around 700, and while not easy, hits are obtainable. I only wish it had wind holds.
I was looking through my 30-160x100mm binoculars while watching this video.
Foehammer was carrying a perfect 1 - 10 LPVO on The Maw
And then she died...
@@DrygdorDradgvork Right in the damn feels
Been telling people SFP is where it’s at for LPVO’s for years. AND usually you get a much brighter reticle if you want 😉
Good thing about a simple dot illumination like the vortex gen 2E is that if you’re shooting in an awkward position, and you have bad scope shadow, you can still see the red center but not the cross hair, and get your hits.
Reticle design > Gimmick brightness
Zero retention > everything
Depends on what you're using it for.
I'm still using my Viper PST Gen II 1-6x. It's a little heavy, and every month or two I catch myself checking my budget and wondering about an upgrade to the PLX-C, but every time I actually go out and run the thing I come home thinking "That was just fine. I don't wanna change it." It's the Vanilla LPVO- boringly good, taken for granted, and people in the past would've seen it as a luxury.
I bought the Viper because I had a Credo 1-4x with a straight duplex crosshair and basically was thinking "I want this, but with a little more mag and some BDC." The Credo got sold to a guy who said he had built a .50 Beowulf and needed a hunting scope. To each his own...
I've used a buddies PLXc even on a stage for a match... I honestly prefer my Razor 1-6 the 1x is noticeably better tge PLXc is only good relative to other FFPs .... I'd just keep your viper honestly
Viper and the razor 1-6 are still awesome. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise
The only issue I had with mine was that the o-ring on the red dot tower worked it self out and would need Vortex to work on it, besides that was super clear
Viper pst gen 2 for me isnt clear enough. I have trijicon accupoint 1-4 and credo 1-6 ffp. The trijicon is crystal clear. Mag over 6, eyebox starts to be unforgiven.
Leave me and my overly bright glorified “red dot” alone. It mates with my astigmatism perfectly.
Totally--my Razor 1-6 is the best red dot I own for my fucked-up eyes.
After buying like 5-6 LPVO's, I finally realized I just really don't like them and am now sticking to my red dots and ACOGs. I'm probably not going to see targets at ranges beyond that in Appalachia anyway.
I found that prism sights were the answer to what I wanted in an optic. Cheaper than LPVOs, brighter BDC reticle with better battery life, less fragile, with the downsides of shitty eye relief and no variable magnification. Not perfect, but it works for me
Yeah my 5x prism scope is like a poor man's Acog. I got it because red dots looked blurry with astigmatism, like it for it's simplicity and ruggedness. Has illumination but rarely use it in daytime.
@@MAWA2024 same here, found out I cant use red dots when I finally bought one for my edc and the reticle looked like a giant smudge thanks to astigmatisms. Another W for prism sights
@@skibadibapmbapdap you can have contact lenses or glasses for astigmatism
@@marcinzdunek2902 not true. I had contacts, they actually make astigmatism worse. Have since had cataract surgery but the astigmatism is still there. Just part of getting old, you'll see.
@marcinzdunek2902 yeah I don't see many people doing that just for a clearer red dot.
5:22 You know our motto: We deliver!
RIP Foehammer. o7
Great video!
You and Brass Facts should definitely get into some discussions about optimum range for weapon systems and their scopes.
So many folks think that just because a 16" AR can hit a target the size of a Subaru at 1k yards...that it is a 1,000 yard gun.
You can have a 15 lbs precision bolt gun with a 5-25x in your hands, but if 3 Roblox bad guys jump you at 75 yards, maybe don't use the sniper rifle.
And definitely don't jump up and spin before using it.
Keep up the great work!
Pretty same as one older guy in local hunting club. Eyesight had worsened at point he lost
his drivers license but still wanted to keep hunt and replaced his old scope with
somekind of planet observation device.
Well first time in hunt and he had scope cranked to Pluto level magnification
and suddenly moose ran past of 50 meters of him. Lifted a gun but
didnt shoot. Later asked why he didnt shoot and he replied i could count brown hair strands
but did see moose itself anywhere so he was not sure where to shoot and didnt want to risk
random gut shot.
Bet you didn’t predict this comment,
Amazingly thorough video thank you for a clear, concise, compact video.
Great vid. cool that blue alpha is sponsoring you. I love their stuff
We've been long time viewers to Hops rants😅
@@BlueAlphaBelts that’s awesome! Keep up the good work🤌🏽🤌🏽
The ATACR 1-8, NX-8 1-8, and the Vortex 1-10 all use similar reticles with similar daytime bright illumination. They are useable on 1x even without illumination. I just accidentally forgot to turn on the illumination in my 2-gun comp and had no issues. And I managed just fine on 10x, which most guntubers claim you will die if you try using it on the highest magnification.
Love the extra snark this go around and yes preemptive updated recommended is always appropriate especially as fast as new scopes come out
The vcog sco might unironically be a heavy ass unicorn. It's truly bright for a reflector type, battery life is measured in weeks not hours, the reticle makes a good amount of sense, it's the whole package, it just weighs a ton and costs 2k.
Here I am still running a VCOG 1-6x24, and still completely love it. Tad heavy, but the battery life on a single AA is about 400 hours, great glass, enough zoomies for what I need, and a "combat" tough housing. I feel like I get my cake and eat it too with the VCOG. 😋
If I’d had Hop’s approval, my life would be complete and I’d stop waiting for my Dad to get back from the store.
20 seconds in and you’ve already won my heart and mind
HOP AGAIN WITH HIS COMMON SENSE TO TRAINING AND LIVING! sing it again brother! Semper Fi from the woods of Maine !
this is why i like the 1-8 atacr so much. the brightness is real nice sure - but the reticle is completely useable at 1x without the reticle on. my findings are quite different - i like that german style reticle because I played a lot of mohaa back in the day with the kar98 sniper
Good content and useful opinions.
I'll stay with my Nightforce NX8 and ATACR 1-8x LPVOs. For ME they work the best, and that is what actually matters.
I got a few scopes to try out and settled on the atacr 1-8, myself. Like you said, it's what works best for you, that's the most important factor.
The plxc is cool and all but I don't care about the scope body "dissappearing", especially since I generally run caps. On all other aspects. I feel the atacr or nx8 beats the plxc. I think Hop puts way too much weighting on the 1x performance when comparing these lpvo, and I feel 1x needs to have red dot bright illumination to really be a good 1x, so the plxc ain't for me, no matter how many TH-camrs say it's the best.
Honestly my 1-8 atacr is disappointing compared so some others I’ve tried. Sure it’s tough but 1x has fish eye. 8x is like looking through a toilet paper tube. Glass is clear. It’s bright af but as discussed that’s kind of a non factor
@aaa3d473 What scope is your preference? Why is brightness a non factor? A scope that isn't daylight bright will not pick up as easily or as fast, especially on bright days or on backgrounds that are reddish. At that point, you are better off turning the illumination off with those scopes, whereas red dot bright scopes can power through those tough spots, when needed.
@@SquallWulfhart because the reticle designs trump the brightness that as stated in the video is measured in a few hours. Even my atacr reticle was dog water without the brightness on. A good 1-6 sfp with a good reticle beats a 1-8 ffp where you can’t see the thing if the batteries die imo. I’m all aboard the credo 1-6 train as well I sold my atacr because of this.
@aaa3d473 I prefer FFP, but I'll have to look into the Credo, never hurts to have more options. I really like the FC-DMx reticle on the atacr for long range and the brightness makes the 1x very usable. But yeah, I keep 5 or so spare batteries in the foregrip and I'm good about turning off the illumination, so the battery factor doesn't bother me, but I can see how it could be a deal breaker to others.
Simulated TH-cam comment responses get a hearty chuckle from me. Enjoyable humor element. I also enjoy seeing brass facts without having to listen to what I assume is Mormon grammar.
It’s simple
Two kinds of relevant lpvos:
1-6 SFP BDC for duty type weapons
1-8 FFP Mil based reticles for a more marksman type role
You won’t need ffp on a 6x and
1-10 is too much strain on the optical system
If you aren’t willing to not use a red dot on the gun then do not buy an lpvo that’s just dumb
With an lpvo you either need bright illumination or good reticle design, both are not necessary but having both is nice
The thick crosshairs of a fiber wire reticle are great for fast shooting plus you get the bright dot to draw your eye to the center
The circle dot reticle styles with many SFP non fiber wire reticles are also great and the less bright illumination provides plenty of contrast when needed
And an ffp reticle with a “T post” on 1X does really well without illumination
But at the end of the day you don’t want a reticle that requires illumination to work well because batteries die and then you have to use whatever reticle you got
That said, get a razor 1-6 for your AR (or something similar) and be happy
Got an SPR or Recce gun? Snag an ATACR 1-8, won’t feel nearly as nice as the razor does but hey, you got your FFP grid reticle and daylight bright illumination so be happy
Can’t afford those? Snag a Venom 1-6, absolutely wonderful optic, just be careful not to drop it or crank the throw lever too hard
Or for a little more snag a PST 1-6 although it ain’t got the BDC reticle of the razor
And if weight is the name of the game for you check out the PLx-C line as they seem to be very well rounded optics
Thanks for attending my Ted talk!
Your comment about the red dot bright covering for a bad reticle (on 1x) is definitely on the money.
The one piece of info you and the video said that stuck out to me is to go sfp for 1-6 but ffp for 1-8. Why not go sfp on a 1-8 as well?
@@BigJazzHands because at 8X your fov will be smaller than at 6x
Most 556 BDC holds start at 300 yards
You may end up too zoomed in at 300 yards on 8x compared to 6x
But with an SFP you have to be all the way zoomed in to use holds so you don’t get a choice, so with a 6x you get more fov of the battle space while having your reticle be accurate
Is it a debilitating difference? No, with with an SFP 8x you might find yourself zooming in and out between targets whereas with a 6x you probably gonna be just find leaving it at 6x for spotting and engaging targets
@@MatthewC176 Awesome explanation, may God bless you with a giant sausage
Oh awesome, more 90's hand gun content. Been awhile man
Your break down of brightness levels is pretty good. I had to chuckle about your comment on FFP being a flex thing, it’s very true and most reticles suck at 1x and are unusable. One of the few ones that can function without it are the Trijicon VCOG/credo models. The battery life thing was 100% true. I also agree 100% the 1-6 SFP credo is the scope guys should get. Bright enough but not a basic simple cross hair. You should’ve never sold it.
I purchased the Credo 1-6 sfp with red bdc semi circle today and have been reading a ton of things about people liking the credo hx with red bdc hunter reticle due to daytime bright illumination. All their info and criticisms of the other reticles starting giving me buyers remorse. This video makes me feel better about my original purchase and reaffirms my intent and usage with an LVPO and I can't wait to receive it!
I need to thank you for this video
I was already starting to get past HAVING to have DLB since most of the time i was shooting without my illum on anyway
After getting a plx i realized how much moreni appreciated a good reticle over a red mark in my optic
I recently bought another LPVO with a real reticle over the simple Fiberwire thanks to a bit more critical thinking
Appreciate it as always
LPVO’s just don’t do what everyone seems they think they do; naively they are seen as the universal optic, if that makes sense. Granted, in a lot of ways they are cool, I can’t deny that.
However, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Folks expect these things to do exactly what they do on paper and on the flat range, in real life. If more people had to run around with these in an actual light infantry capacity, they would quickly find their LPVO’s back in the box and replaced with a red dot or irons, on a much more minimalistic carbine. I fear this optic has arisen to the popularity it’s attained solely based on uninformed theory crafting and leisurely shooting. Tight eye boxes and limited fields of view in an unwieldy tube just feel so suffocating under stress and tactical movements; and let’s not forget the weight of these things on top of that. JMHO
I cant agree more.
"...Tie fighter targeting computer..." best reference I have heard
200k sub channel doing diagrams in comic sans and then handdrawn on cardboard. I love it
When I posted this video I only had 199k 😎👍
You forgot to mention the Razor 1-6 JM-1 which has a BDC reticle that can range 9 inch gongs and is calibrated to Jerry's 60 grain handloads from an 18" barrel!
Oops my bad!
I read the title of this video and knew I was going to love it. Not even having watched this yet, this will be about the " must be daylight bright" gang.
Something that this video reminded me of is that one of the neat new features of the XM157 LPVO's for the NGSW program is that it gives you the benefit of both worlds via using a transparent digital display in addition to the etched reticle. Thus the XM157 gives you red dot brightness in any color while also allowing it to display any information you need such as range, directions via the scopes digital compass, wind, temperature, and your current holds, etc.
Daylight visible is enough for me on everything but a red dot. I only need just enough light to see my reticle. I’m a HUGE fan of both-eyes-open shooting. When I have a magnified optic, I keep my front scope cap closed for close-range occluded shooting with both eyes open. When the range opens up, I use the scope traditionally, and I only need just enough brightness for some contrast.
I ended up buying my first Aimpoint T2 (20+ year EOTech user) and Romeo 4T Pro (3x) because of you. Currently running a Razor HD Gen-II e w/ Romeo 4TP @ 12o'clock, on a Reptilia AUS/ROF mount on my 16" MCX Spear 308. Was already planning on switching out the LPVO to a PLxC Mil Griffin in FDE for weight savings and the extra features! This combo just seems like the best of both worlds! Less than zero interest in the NOVA unless maybe I wanted to run it on something with no secondary Red Dot, but I have T2's, RMR HRS's and P2's on all my LPVO's anyway!
I love this dive into things I’m not as familiar with the advantages/disadvantages of, especially with hops dry wit
I straight up forgot my vortex LPVO even has an illuminated reticle because it ran out of battery a long time ago. Still using it well in competitions every month or two
Oh Lord I agree with your opening statements.
Love my BlackHound 2-12×44 FFP MOA scope, fun to use, good glass, not overkill in any manner, fair illumination too
I have never felt so vindicated with a purchase as I do with my 1-6 Credo 😂 I think between you and Brass Facts there’s now like 4 videos reminding people of how awesome that scope is
I agree with this mostly because I am too poor for SFP and have just always used FFP.
I also use the “you are either all the way zoomed in or all the way zoomed out” mentality which is why on my main rifle I ended up landing on a 4XT pro and Juliet 5x that i’ve been using for the past year and love.
This one might set a new record of how many times I agree with Hop per minute, including the sponsor message because the hybrid EDC belt is great and I also bought a second one to have one tan and one black. Although from a user standpoint it's mostly irrelevant, some (higher-end) scopes illuminate the etched reticle with a diffraction grating instead of reflective elements, which should have way less light emitted out the front. No, I don't know which scopes, no one really seems to be publishing that info.
Sweet! 🍻
On break at work: Ooo a hop upload, time for lunch
I agree with this video and found it to be good food for thought. Thanks. My intuition told me the trijicon was probably worth. My concerns are generally battery life and durability.
7:33 throwing shade at thunder ranch😂
He's gonna be bitter about that forever 😅 (rightfully so)
@@Kremit_the_ForgI’m with him on it. That seems to be a silly thing to be that concerned about. That being said, I’ve never been in a gun fight and hope I NEVER have to.
@@Kremit_the_Forg lol for sure
@@LFDNC batteries spontaneously die all the time. Thunder ranch and US army doctrine is correct about buis
Went to a class with a unused Romeo 4t pro, batteries died at the end of the day. Had batteries on body. As close as that drills targets where just nailed then thru body of optic then swapped batteries from the line. As long as battery compartments are tooless and batteries on rifle or body, think it's overblown in most scenarios.
This video encapsulates some of why i just cant get behind an LPVO. They has too little useable magnification for good range (PID and all that), small objectives, and worst of all either usually a poor 1x reticle or force me to shoot everything on 6x or 8x to be accurate on the BDC. Im glad that everyone else likes them, i just cant bring myself to be all too interested.
There is no target, there is only Zuul.
I came here for the snarky preemptive comments retorts.🤣 The LPVO stuff was good too. Keep 'em coming!
Congrats on 200k bro 👍👍👍
"Jk, we're probably gonna talk about a handgun from the 90's" 🤣 ...AND WE WILL LOVE IT! Great video 👌
The Norden bomb sight famously used in the second World War high altitude strategic bombing campaigns supposedly used actual human hairs for its crosshairs. The donor was a individual woman who donated her hair to the war effort. And yeah LPVOs are cool I guess.
I went with the PLXc FFP after seeing it at Shotshow. Plenty bright.
Agreed on the trijicon credo 1-6x. It's pretty much the ideal of an lvpo. Anything more than 6× has such a tiny eyebox that a traditional scope is far more practical
Thank you Hop! God bless! Be safe!
🤙🪖👮🙏🇺🇲
lmao the trijicon punchline at the end
great info - thanks Hop! Now I hate my PA ACSS Raptor reticle....
Did you predict my disappointment in no Socko content at the end of this video? Answer me that Mr. LPVO! 😂😼
@@AndyCigars He's just salty because I kept using SponsorBlock to put the "highlight" of the video at the end when Socko normally shows up 😼😼😼
@@Tarburz truly the hero we deserve
I love the reticle on my PA Nova. For my preferences and uses the red dot bright center dot and simple clean reticle with minimal information is perfect for me
So much information and wisdom in one video I love it!
Hop, your autism is amazing. Thank you for this in depth content.
more excited about the 90s handgun video tbh
Tism levels of information from this guy. Always.
Yes please, more videos about forgotten .40S&W pistols from the 90s
My new favorite channel no bullshit straight to the point!
Handguns from the 90s!
I just bought a S&W 5906!
S&W 59 series are awesome I have a 5903 love it
Counter-counter-counter-point (ackshually): a thicker reticle that's "RDS bright" is only a *marginal* drawback *within the distances at which the 5.56 round can still effectively hit*, and considering that most encounters IRL (cough RITTENHOUSE cough cough, or just police encounters with long guns) happen within 100 yards, having something with red dot-ish capabilities outweighs that drawback.
I am a master-debater. You can admit my spectacular disputational victory in your next video, no attribution necessary.
Sweet, looking forward to the S&W 915 review.
Gold standard: Primary Arms 1-6 ACSS Raptor/ Predator SFP regular illuminated reticle. It's also a bargain at about $300 with a warranty.
GIMME DAT EYEBOXXXXXXXXX
YEAHHHHH CDOES
Thanks my brother
Good points Hop. The way I see it... the most important part of a LPVO by far is the 1x. If you don't need the optic to work well at 1x, then why are you bothering with a LPVO?
And if that take isn't hot enough, I believe balance is more important that overall weight for carbines.
I recently picked up a Leupold MK4 CQ/T and as dated as it is, still rocks for a 1-3x. Had my share of LPVO's over the years, but this one is staying.
I have a VX-3 1-4 probably almost 15 years old I wouldn't hardly trade it for anything has no illumination but it's straight quality
Great video! Very apt considerations on LPVOs….
I know that a lot of people with less then daylight bright LPVOs can shoot close by using the reticle brackets, having said that there are some daylight bright scopes. My current favorite is the Primary Arms PLX-c with the Nova reticle and is SFP. At 1 power it is a daylight bright dot, at 8 power it significantly helps with target identification and hit probability out past 300 yards. I know it is new on the market but I think the best comparable is probably the Vortex 1-6 but the PA is lighter, shorter, more magnification, better reticle, a tad brighter on the dot.
Just saw it... Congrats for your 200K sub!
Excellent and well thought-out video. But since there *must* be criticism, here goes: no doggo or kitteh at the end
I don't want him to overstay his welcome.
🐱
@@Hoplopfheil but it’s HIS house
I have the Nikon p-223 lpvo yes its not the best but i have had it for years and it has never lost zero the glass is clean as hell!!! Its 1.5 to 4.5 magnification and has a BDC reticle!!!! I live in a flat commie state called Illinois and that optic works for me!!!!
The most important aspect of any scope used for survival, self-defense, or military use is always how robust it is. Longevity and toughness eclipses illumination in the real world.
Then variable magnification optics probably shouldn't even be allowed into the conversation.
This is a great video and, again shows you that you don't truly need a FFP 1-6 otlr 1-8a
You and hop are my favorite guntubers but I swear every time I read y’all’s titles I think goddamn these girls are hard to please hahahaha
Who's you and hop if this channel is just hop
My first lpvo and second scope I own is a 1-4x credo with the duplex reticle for my .350 legend ar upper, and so far, it's pretty nice. It's my first higher end scope, and the first time I have ever been able to pull up the turret and set my zero to zero, which is quite awesome to be able to do ngl. Honestly, it does the job just fine as far as i can tell, and it should be great for hunting deer and hogs down here in Texas.
The razor and credo are really hard to beat.
Px4i for $500 is the g spot
Idk I definitely agree that if you’re shooting in that close up 15 yards and in you want 1x, and at 100 yard ranges I want 6x but I’ve shot at other ranges in between and I don’t like picking up the target at 6x but I could still use a little magnification.
You mentioned "horse hair or whatever" for early cross hairs and I can tell you that as a former zookeeper doing presentations on southeastern Louisiana wildlife, the Golden Silk spider's webbing was used for making those early reticles.
You can tell him? or was it Google , lmfao
You and Brass Facts are the best.
You said it. 2nd focal plane is better! Thanks Hop. When was the last time someone ranged on anything less than full magnification? (except L.E. tactical marksman). How many people even know how range with a reticle.
Purpose is the operating word. I mainly run a Primary Arms Nova 1-6 SFP (with some upgrades) for local sort of friendly/hard on gear two gun training/competition which is mainly 200 yards and in. Agree with Hop that something like the PA PLxC is a better scope for most other purposes.
I have the fiberwire lpvo. Dot and magnifier is still my favorite
I hope the Dual Focal Plane scopes get some love on your channel eventually
Blue Alpha is a nice sponsor pick up. They make excellent gear.
Thank you for explaining the LPVO in an easy-to-understand way. I now definitely don't want one! By the way, Hop, you made it to 200,000 subscribers! Congratulations, man! :D