Mike, your letter writer sounds like me. I am 75 years old and drove a 1965 Ford 5000 around the farm for about 18 years. Slowly but surely it started nickel and diming me to death so I decided what the heck, I am going to buy a new tractor. I ended up getting a new John Deere Open Station 4066R and I love it. Their 0% financing was definitely a draw. I added a canopy and a few other whistles and bells. Primarily I pull a flail mower around my pastures. It is so nice to work in the shade, have push-button cruise control, the same horsepower as my old 5000 and, most important of all, a cup holder. As we get older, the creature comforts are a necessity, IMHO.
That was not the answer I expected but the supporting argument was very convincing. I have a 5 year old Kubota M7060 and a 50 year old Ford 3000. The Kubota does everything perfectly and a lot of tasks the Ford can't do. But the Ford puts a smile on my face. So I guess I'm glad to have them both.
As a retired farmer and heavy diesel mechanic and I owned that CASE that long; you know what the old girl is. My personal opinion on these new compact and subcompack tractors are not what they tell you they are. Personally I'd keep the old CASE and keep a jingle in my jeans.
1975 Massey Ferguson 265 here. We rebuilt the motor this past winter and expect this to last the rest of our lifetime (Hoping +30 years). We paid 10% what a new tractor with that horsepower would cost, and that's including all the repairs and engine rebuild we have done to it over the last 6 years.
Well Mike I was in Dale’s position in 2006 although much younger. I had an old 1958 Oliver 880 that I pulled a pull type mower. Yes I had a tractor and it mowed but it was not fun to use. I shopped all the dealers in my area and settled on a Kubota Grand L3830HST and a 72” Bush Hog Squealer like you have. It is 4WD with a loader and QA bucket and pallet forks. I really love this little tractor and my wife likes to drive it too I’ve had it since June of 2006 it currently has 933 hours and has been 100% trouble free. Just meticulous maintenance and cleaning. Still looks and runs like new. The original battery lasted 13 years. It is truly a pleasure to operate so my advice to Dale, go for it. Being the richest man in the cemetery gets no prize. Buy the new one and take care of it, enjoy your money while your here.
Great advice and video Mike! I'm only 35 and grew up on older farm tractors. Well built work horses but the comfort and ease of use on a modern compact will rock your world 🌎!!! I would recommend he go with a A/C and heated cab. 😀
Hi Mike!! Thank you for the lesson in tractor economics. My Kubota dealer definitely didn’t give me a fair trade in value for my B2950. I didn’t know exactly the numbers but will be better equipped next time and definitely shop a 75 Mike radius. I am very appreciative of this discussion…Tom
Great video Mike. Great information to know on dealer cost and the yearly price increase in percentages. I think you made all good points. If he can afford to pay the difference in the old and new tractor that he wants, he should do it. He is not getting any younger. The peace of mind of having a new tractor that is easier to operate and get off and on is worth something. Thanks for the video Mike. LinemanG
Lots of different opinions. Bottom line is ease of use and a warranty that will last out Dale’s “needs”. I happen to like old tractors, but don’t actually farm. I own many (probably too many). I am Dale’s age as well. I am awaiting delivery on my new one that I am buying because of want. Yep easier to get off and on, skid steer quick attach, power steering, long warranty, etc. Even going with the backhoe option (sorry Mike). Why, because it will make it easier for my kids to sell someday. Might help the squirrels look for acorns? It’s only money as they say, closer to 80 than 70 so indulge. You have earned that right.
Mike, when this video started I was pretty convinced that he should just keep the old Case and use it. However, your have a very compelling argument there and if all of the "assumptions" hold true, I believe he would be good to get the new one.
I am also 76, still farming. Things don't always go to plan. Just over 2 years ago I bought a new Massey Ferguson 1755M. A couple weeks ago I accedently. knocked out my windshield. The dealer won't touch it and I can't find anyone who will put a new glass in. Doubt it is worth more than a new one now.. My big farm tractors are from the 70s and 80s. The glass is gasketed in rather than glued. I have replaced a number of that type in both vehicles and machines and can get them cheap from salvage. Do not know anything about the silicon glued ones though. As far as mechanical repairs, anything major goes and I can buy another running tractor like it for less than the cost of new parts.
I’d love a new (slightly larger) tractor, but they’re expensive. My 40 year old Ford 1700 is worth about what my grandfather paid for it new in 1982. Parts are hard to find and it’s a little tired, but when push comes to shove, a $2000 repair to keep going a few more years is more economical than a $30,000 new tractor. I just spent $2k on the Ford this year to fix the steering - I changed it over to hydrostatic power. What an amazing upgrade! Totally different driving experience and has increased my satisfaction with the tractor greatly, especially for loader work. I’m young and wrench on it myself though. In the position of the gentleman who wrote, a new tractor is probably the way to go just for comfort and convenience. If it’s running well, the tractor you have is generally the most economical one!
There is an argument that you can use it as an inflation hedge. The value of physical "stuff" will grow over time with inflation. Besides that, poster John below said it best "the comfort and ease of use". Hope the guy enjoys his new tractor. Thanks Mike
Is that $30K in 2029 really comparable to the $30K spent in 2022? The value of our money drops just as inflation goes up. That why you see comparisons of cost to build large infrastructures in the 1930-1960s (roads, dams, reactors, military gear, etc.) as being equated to today's dollars...and your jaw drops open!! I think 8 years, in this crappy economy, is a great way to see your "today's" dollars take a real crap by 2029. Dale will not win if he counts too many beans. He just needs to decide if he WANTS a new tractor or not, and can he foot the bill? Then go with that.
The TRUE cost, including inflation, pales in comparison to the choking off of fossil fuels and their subsequent doubling in prices......you may have NO market value with a gas/diesel powered machine of ANY kind in the future, so they can force you into their EV money-makers......that's the plan.
I’ve been contemplating the same thing. I could sell my Massey 253 and get close to paying down at least half of a new tractor with a little less horsepower. The only thing is, every time I turn the key, it cranks and runs just fine. Even if I ever had to get the engine rebuilt, it would only cost me about $2k. Plus it’s got new tires on it! 😁
I enjoy your videos! In my experience and my area that 30% trade-in is a stretch, best trade in our dealer would do on the 2yo tractor we bought from them is 45%. Basically throw away all the payments made so far and start over on new tractor. No way I would buy anything now unless we HAD to have it. Atvs, trucks, tractors are starting to show up on craigslist. Almost time for everyone to tighten their belts. As a side note, we paid $42k, same tractor now 2yrs later is almost $50k new from dealer.
This is want versus need. I would stick with what he is familiar with. The intangibles are really important.. Does he do repairs himself? Is he happy on the tractor or is this like getting a new car every 3 years. He does not need it based on the information. You assumed he may have trouble getting g on and off. Small tractors can be more difficult depending on the mobility issue. They are cramped and a bad knee would be happier with more room and a level floor pan. No information on loader use but letter suggests that may be important. Small tractors don't lift much. Only one implement or attachment mentioned for light bush hogging so would a Ventrac with the wide head be a better option? Take a field trip and see what he has, wants, needs because he is so close. Could be a good episode. Your spreadsheets are better suited to a younger person who will have an ongoing business rather than a man likely looking at selling everything in 5 years. Right now tractors are not selling well in my area. He may not get a good price. 6 months ago it would have sold quickly. Money is not the only consideration.
I agree. If you're76 years old, get the new tractor and enjoy yourself. When you're ready to move to town, you will get all your money back on the internet without involving a dealer trade.
Mike I like your analysis of the tractor value in 8 years. What is not consider is if Dale doesn't buy the new tractor what could that $30k invested in a CD or Index fund be worth in 8 years. Historical returns on the S&P 500 index funds have doubled in 8 years. Maybe this isn't about the $$ but more about if Dale wants the tractor and can afford it to go for it?
I would tend to agree with you on the $30k price. I have a 2000 New Holland TC29D that new sold for $16,500, add a $4,000 loader and you have a $20,500 investment new. Today, similar tractors are selling for $15,000 with a loader so about 73% of new and they have in excess of 1000 hours on them. A brand new version of my tractor today is right at $30,000 so if that tractor is purchased new now in 20 years it would be worth $21,900. All in all a really good investment considering the utility that you will be gaining.
I agree. I recently sold a 5 year old Kubota L3301 for the same price I bought it for. Basically I had a free tractor for all that time and I got a $25000 cash payday at the end. It was like a nice savings account with the zero percent financing.
I’m like Dale, 72 years old, looking for 4 wheel drive 75 hp tractor with loader. New John Deere is close to $75,000. New Holland is approx. $60,000. Mahindra.is approximately $58,000. Kubota is approximately $55,000. These prices come from web site and not from a dealer. I’ll probably only put 50-100 hours per year at most. We have wooded property, I need to use the tractor to drag trees & so forth. I can get a good used tractor with low hours an loader for $35,000-40-000. New or used.
I just sold my 1979 JD 850. Paid $5800 14 years ago. Sold it for $5000. No front end loader with a manual transmission 2WD. Don’t know if I did good or not. Always wanted a JD with a front loader and 4WD so I got a 2038. Did I need it-No. But at my age, I just wanted it. New tractors are so much easier to get on and off. A difference like night and day.
Massey Ferguson 282 bought new Two outlets 1450 hrs runs good as everybody gives me hard time made in mexico that is old mexico what is resale value thanks
Hi Mike my new Holland Tc25d was $16k brand new in 2000 (base model, no Fel) I paid 24k in 2020 (deluxe model with a fel, and front mount blower) I couldn't agree more that the retail price of tractors follows the machine though it's life. It may deprecate in the first few years, assuming normal inflation, but on average inflation maintains the retail price of the machine though it's lifespan. An equivalent model new would likely be 30k now, but in 20 years that tractor used will likely sell for around 30k. Now how do I convince my wife that I should buy new because tractors don't loose value.
Not sure I agree with Mike’s conclusion based upon the limited information presented. While Dale may be able to recoup close or perhaps even more than he pays for a tractor, he also buys in my opinion a load of potential DPF headaches on a 35 hp tractor. Other than size and age, we are not told of reasons for changing tractors. While Mike talks about repair cost, we are not aware of even hours on the case. Basically there are lots of factors, I would want to include in this evaluation other than just purchase price and potential resell value (which is in my opinion a shot in the dark whole blindfolded in a biden/Democrat driven economy.). Not saying I would not recommend a new tractor, but the 2 factors Mike focused on are only 2 of about a dozen or more factors I would be considering. When Dale says he thinks 5-10 years remaining on the property, I have to assume that current health factors and mobility are not major concerns at present.
The tractor companies seem to have ironed out the DPF problems on new tractors. The ones to be a little wary of are the 1st gen Tier IV 2014-2017 versions of just about every brand.
Keep the Case and your $30k Dale. If you're not planning on putting more than 100 more hours on it over 5-10 years, you won't even put a dent in that $30k for maintenance and repairs.
Good question, I don't really know. Haven't had enough experience with an excavator. They seem to be in high demand, so there's a chance it would hold true.
Rusty, yeah, we like eating out down there and boating on Table Rock and going to Silver Dollar City. I'm not a big fan of the shows, if someone is visiting and wants to go we'll take them. I feel like some of them make us look like toothless hillbillies with fiddles.
You're way off base here, Mike. In the intervening years between buying and selling the tractor, Dale could invest the $30k. Investments are never certain, but if he can find something that grows at a rate faster than the 2-3% in your calculations he will end up way ahead by investing the money instead of buying the tractor. That doesn't mean that buying the new tractor is necessarily wrong-- peace of mind from a warranty, greater ease of operation, etc. may all be real, and could justify the cost. My point is that there is a cost, and in fact it will grow the longer Dale keeps the tractor.
Another point here, a smaller tractor uses less fuel, and a more modern tractor uses less fuel. Even if you're a climate-denier, diesel fuel ain't gonna be any cheaper, quite the contrary. Before I watched this, I was in team "Keep the old one", but if the projected sale price is that close to the original purchase price, you could even make a little profit if you factor in fuel costs. The importnt thing to look for, is total life cycle cost.
There's a big wild card you mentioned at the end, the gentleman is retired and looking at his last tractor. He's earned some creature comforts I'll say. However, if he isn't concerned about creature comforts then this doesn't make a lot of sense. In 8 years he will be 84. How long will he have to enjoy that 30k? And this assumes we continue the strange economic times we're in. The recent EPA ruling could roll back the odious emission regulations and make tractors of this era plummet in value. Conversely they could go even harder on emissions and make us happy to have a tier 5 engine. Lots of uncertainty. Get a nice tractor if you want one, don't worry about the resale.
Lots of good arguments for buying a new tractor. Allow me to show the other side of the ledger. First, let's assume that the old Case 570 does everything that Dale wants out of a tractor. If so, what does he get out of the new tractor that he wouldn't get from his old one? It sounds like he'd be getting increased reliability and more comfort. Mike's argument is that these benefits would 'cost' Dale nothing because he could resell the tractor in eight years for what he paid for it today. What this ignores is that Dale would have to give up the use of $30,000 for those eight years. If we assume that Dale could invest the $30,000 at 5% per year, it would grow to be worth over $44,000 at the end of year eight -- an increase of $14,000. If Dale only uses the tractor for 100 hours during that time, he would be paying over $140/hour for those increased creature comforts. Even if, as Mike suggests, the old Case might need an expensive (say $4,000) repair, Dale would still be $10,000 to the good by NOT buying a new tractor. Of course, if I were in Dale's shoes, I'd probably buy a new tractor. I'm sure I could convince myself that the new tractor would allow me to do things the old one wouldn't and that increased capability would 'pay' for the upgrade.
Great points, I don't disagree. I've just seen folks that get by with older stuff and dread using it and have heard too many customers marvel at how much they love their compact tractors and how many tasks they find to do with them. That's probably the salesman in me. If a customer is worried about having enough money to live in retirement then I'd definitely lean toward your logic. In Dale's situation, I sensed that if he keeps the Case he'll never use it (which adds to mechanical issues), but if he had the compact, he'd be out moving stuff around and brush hogging.
But the new tractor warranty will end someday. The repairs will be higher. Which will possibly negate the value of the tractor. Have you noticed the value of the 1990s and older tractor? They simple and more reliable that's why farmers love them. Oh yea the right to repair turns off buyers too!
Mike, I would say that you gave some pretty sound advice. I think that I would say for him to buy new also. I would not want to deal with a tractor that may need repairs (time, $$ or willingness) in my Golden years.
If you are reading this buy a new holland! They are slightly better than the case in a few areas a workmaster or boomer would be perfect for you as well!
Of course what was not mentioned was inflation which wil certainly be about 3% or more over the next 6-8 years…so when Dale sells it for what he paid for it…. he actually took a 3% times 8 -years loss in real dollars.
Yeah hobby farming and a bush hog and about 5 years left of it. I’d say keep the case retired fix it up and sell it or drive it in parades and such. Saying nobody wants old tractors is a lie. Only problem is it ain’t diesel. But it ain’t doing much it paid for and he’s retiring. Who would buy a new one in that scenario, especially if it doesn’t make you any money farming. 🤷♀️
I get the possibility of recouping the investment in a few years. But one must count $30k tied up. If the current tractor is in good shape with no major issues and little abuse foreseen (lots of facts not shared in the video), then 30k stays and a portion set aside for some potential repairs. But for that figure, an aweful lot can be repaired and still have a portion of those unspent dollars left. History shows the world is not in a stable condition and things like a pandemic can very quickly changes situations, not typically in a positive fashion. I would be cautious spending that figure if the current tractor is serving the need well.
I was thinking tractors depreciate over time. Your reasoning is the opposite. Also, if he finances the tractor at say 4% interest, he will pay more than the original price with interest. I do see a value in a loader for an older man to save his back and wear and tear as a person ages.
Came here to say that. I was trying to decide between a new Kubota B series and an old MF 255. The latter was cheaper, but a bit bigger than what I needed and used 4 to 5 times as much diesel per hour!
The extra $30,000 will buy a lot of fuel. The current tractor owes him nothing. If it dies and parts aren't readily available, bury it and then buy a new or used one. Only exception would be if there are impediments to using the old tractor.
He said he would only put a few hours on the tractor a year. The difference in fuel cost would be so small and insignificant. Also have to figure in DEF cost, which cuts into any fuel savings.
Whole lot of "ifs" and assumptions in those figures. I will submit that the current market isn't sustainable long term. I tend to think it is a risky assumption to think that you can buy a new tractor, keep it a few years, and sell it for the original purchase price. Even if the figures are correct, you also leave out the fact that you are tying up $30k for several years, and you likely could invest that money and make a return if you didn't have it tied up in a tractor. Also, if you can't pay cash for the tractor, you'll have to figure in interest on the loan, and that rate is going up almost daily. I agree that a new tractor would be nice, but you're going to have to pay for that luxury. Nothing wrong with it, but you can tell Mike comes from a tractor salesman background.
Put the 30K into an investment and earn 6-7% per year on it. Keep using what works. No chips, No DEF, no DPF, no sitting burning fuel while the exhaust regenerates. Just simple functionality. Keep the tried and true.
He’s looking at a defined period of time where the 30k isn’t needed somewhere else. He’s just tying the money up for 8 years and will get his all of his money back. He gets to drive a new tractor for free for 8 years if he’s willing to tie up 30k for that period of time. The only thing he’s loosing is the opportunity cost on the money, i.e. 8% average annual growth in an investment market. If you don’t have 30k that you can tie up for that period of time, keep driving the old tractor.
70 year old man here. Been operating a 1952 JD60 for the past 40years. Cold in the winter, hard to start and operate, 2 wheel drive, lots of maintenance, but I still operate it. But I bought a Massey Ferguson 2860M 60 hp tractor that has a air conditioned cab, 2 rear hydraulic remotes, a good loader with 3rd function, 4 wheel drive, radio, auto throttle, hydrostatic, diesel powered that burns way less fuel. As much as I love that old JD, the new tractor is way more fun and comfy to drive. And like Mike is saying, in current market conditions I can sell it for nearly what I paid for it. It isn’t costing me much to have it. No regrets at all about buying new.
Another area to consider is Safety. I had 1959 Case and there are virtually no safety features on those old tractors. No ROPs, No seat belt, no seat switch, PTO locked to the transmission (the brush hog is spinning if the clutch is engaged), Exhaust pipe and muffler up where it can get caught and fly back at you, Old brakes that barely stopped, Gear drive can’t go slow and careful compared to a hydrostatic transmission, Old 6 volt battery so you can not stop and start when you need to, High hood so you cannot see compared to a lower hood, Old tires that might not have good traction, Not safe enough for the wife and older kids to mow. I agree with Mike, get a new or newer tractor! You’ve made it into you seventies don’t die on an old tractor. :)
With the effects of price inflation, $30k today is worth alot more than $30k in 8 years time. By your price inflation number numbers between $4,461 and £6,896 less. So he might get $30k for it in 8 years time but the spending power of the $30k is only between $23,104 and $25,539.
He clearly wants a new tractor but does not need it. And why is every decision made on an investment point of view - you either need it or you don't. I think he wants a new toy with all the bells and whistles.
I own a 1975 Cass 870 agri king that I bought for 3 grand and have $4300 in after an engine rebuild and a front end loader. As far as a new one I would not even consider as all the trouble I read and heard about the computer crap the would cost the price and major head aches that they have!!
Old tractor is very likely to win. Just NO to DEF. Just no to over-electronics equipped ready to break down crap. If he gets new... go 25 hp. Minimal extraneous crap. LACK OF THE CRAP IS WHY THE OLD ONES ARE WORTH SO MUCH! Don't want to have to pay the dealer to reset the computer because you needed to change a light bulb.
BTW... I put 500 hr on my 2020 Branson 2515H in less than 2 years. No DEF No extraneous garbage. (no used that I could find that still had wheels at the time) Mostly... digging with the bucket. I moved appx 3 ACRE FT of dirt. (over 5,000 cubic yards)
![ประสบการณ์ จ้าง Developer ที่ผมจะไม่มีวันลืม [ภาค2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pZbsSDRrmXA/mqdefault.jpg)
I still use my 1939 Ford 9N
Mike, your letter writer sounds like me. I am 75 years old and drove a 1965 Ford 5000 around the farm for about 18 years. Slowly but surely it started nickel and diming me to death so I decided what the heck, I am going to buy a new tractor. I ended up getting a new John Deere Open Station 4066R and I love it. Their 0% financing was definitely a draw. I added a canopy and a few other whistles and bells. Primarily I pull a flail mower around my pastures. It is so nice to work in the shade, have push-button cruise control, the same horsepower as my old 5000 and, most important of all, a cup holder. As we get older, the creature comforts are a necessity, IMHO.
I agree with Joe, if you can afford it buy it! Get a cab with air and heat, all the bells and whistles, you'll never regret it. Enjoy it, good luck.
That was not the answer I expected but the supporting argument was very convincing. I have a 5 year old Kubota M7060 and a 50 year old Ford 3000. The Kubota does everything perfectly and a lot of tasks the Ford can't do. But the Ford puts a smile on my face. So I guess I'm glad to have them both.
Good advice. Good luck Dale with your new tractor!
As a retired farmer and heavy diesel mechanic and I owned that CASE that long; you know what the old girl is.
My personal opinion on these new compact and subcompack tractors are not what they tell you they are. Personally I'd keep the old CASE and keep a jingle in my jeans.
1975 Massey Ferguson 265 here. We rebuilt the motor this past winter and expect this to last the rest of our lifetime (Hoping +30 years).
We paid 10% what a new tractor with that horsepower would cost, and that's including all the repairs and engine rebuild we have done to it over the last 6 years.
Well Mike I was in Dale’s position in 2006 although much younger. I had an old 1958 Oliver 880 that I pulled a pull type mower. Yes I had a tractor and it mowed but it was not fun to use. I shopped all the dealers in my area and settled on a Kubota Grand L3830HST and a 72” Bush Hog Squealer like you have. It is 4WD with a loader and QA bucket and pallet forks. I really love this little tractor and my wife likes to drive it too I’ve had it since June of 2006 it currently has 933 hours and has been 100% trouble free. Just meticulous maintenance and cleaning. Still looks and runs like new. The original battery lasted 13 years. It is truly a pleasure to operate so my advice to Dale, go for it. Being the richest man in the cemetery gets no prize. Buy the new one and take care of it, enjoy your money while your here.
I may use that quote "being the richest man in the cemetery gets no prize." Great wisdom that.
Great advice and video Mike! I'm only 35 and grew up on older farm tractors. Well built work horses but the comfort and ease of use on a modern compact will rock your world 🌎!!! I would recommend he go with a A/C and heated cab. 😀
Hi Mike!! Thank you for the lesson in tractor economics. My Kubota dealer definitely didn’t give me a fair trade in value for my B2950. I didn’t know exactly the numbers but will be better equipped next time and definitely shop a 75 Mike radius. I am very appreciative of this discussion…Tom
Great video Mike. Great information to know on dealer cost and the yearly price increase in percentages. I think you made all good points. If he can afford to pay the difference in the old and new tractor that he wants, he should do it. He is not getting any younger. The peace of mind of having a new tractor that is easier to operate and get off and on is worth something. Thanks for the video Mike.
LinemanG
Great information Mike, it puts things into perspective
Very good information and analysis. I am sure it will be helpful to many.
Judt another video, why I am glad Iam a subscriber. Thanks Mike keep them coming.
Lots of different opinions. Bottom line is ease of use and a warranty that will last out Dale’s “needs”. I happen to like old tractors, but don’t actually farm. I own many (probably too many). I am Dale’s age as well. I am awaiting delivery on my new one that I am buying because of want. Yep easier to get off and on, skid steer quick attach, power steering, long warranty, etc. Even going with the backhoe option (sorry Mike). Why, because it will make it easier for my kids to sell someday. Might help the squirrels look for acorns? It’s only money as they say, closer to 80 than 70 so indulge. You have earned that right.
Mike, when this video started I was pretty convinced that he should just keep the old Case and use it. However, your have a very compelling argument there and if all of the "assumptions" hold true, I believe he would be good to get the new one.
I would have to agree, if anything else dependably and ease of operation. Just my two cents but been there done that!!
I am also 76, still farming. Things don't always go to plan. Just over 2 years ago I bought a new Massey Ferguson 1755M. A couple weeks ago I accedently. knocked out my windshield. The dealer won't touch it and I can't find anyone who will put a new glass in. Doubt it is worth more than a new one now.. My big farm tractors are from the 70s and 80s. The glass is gasketed in rather than glued. I have replaced a number of that type in both vehicles and machines and can get them cheap from salvage. Do not know anything about the silicon glued ones though. As far as mechanical repairs, anything major goes and I can buy another running tractor like it for less than the cost of new parts.
I’d love a new (slightly larger) tractor, but they’re expensive. My 40 year old Ford 1700 is worth about what my grandfather paid for it new in 1982. Parts are hard to find and it’s a little tired, but when push comes to shove, a $2000 repair to keep going a few more years is more economical than a $30,000 new tractor. I just spent $2k on the Ford this year to fix the steering - I changed it over to hydrostatic power. What an amazing upgrade! Totally different driving experience and has increased my satisfaction with the tractor greatly, especially for loader work. I’m young and wrench on it myself though. In the position of the gentleman who wrote, a new tractor is probably the way to go just for comfort and convenience. If it’s running well, the tractor you have is generally the most economical one!
Very informative! Thank you!
There is an argument that you can use it as an inflation hedge. The value of physical "stuff" will grow over time with inflation. Besides that, poster John below said it best "the comfort and ease of use". Hope the guy enjoys his new tractor. Thanks Mike
Is that $30K in 2029 really comparable to the $30K spent in 2022? The value of our money drops just as inflation goes up. That why you see comparisons of cost to build large infrastructures in the 1930-1960s (roads, dams, reactors, military gear, etc.) as being equated to today's dollars...and your jaw drops open!!
I think 8 years, in this crappy economy, is a great way to see your "today's" dollars take a real crap by 2029. Dale will not win if he counts too many beans. He just needs to decide if he WANTS a new tractor or not, and can he foot the bill? Then go with that.
The TRUE cost, including inflation, pales in comparison to the choking off of fossil fuels and their subsequent doubling in prices......you may have NO market value with a gas/diesel powered machine of ANY kind in the future, so they can force you into their EV money-makers......that's the plan.
I’ve been contemplating the same thing. I could sell my Massey 253 and get close to paying down at least half of a new tractor with a little less horsepower. The only thing is, every time I turn the key, it cranks and runs just fine. Even if I ever had to get the engine rebuilt, it would only cost me about $2k. Plus it’s got new tires on it! 😁
I enjoy your videos! In my experience and my area that 30% trade-in is a stretch, best trade in our dealer would do on the 2yo tractor we bought from them is 45%. Basically throw away all the payments made so far and start over on new tractor. No way I would buy anything now unless we HAD to have it. Atvs, trucks, tractors are starting to show up on craigslist. Almost time for everyone to tighten their belts. As a side note, we paid $42k, same tractor now 2yrs later is almost $50k new from dealer.
This is want versus need. I would stick with what he is familiar with. The intangibles are really important.. Does he do repairs himself? Is he happy on the tractor or is this like getting a new car every 3 years. He does not need it based on the information. You assumed he may have trouble getting g on and off. Small tractors can be more difficult depending on the mobility issue. They are cramped and a bad knee would be happier with more room and a level floor pan. No information on loader use but letter suggests that may be important. Small tractors don't lift much. Only one implement or attachment mentioned for light bush hogging so would a Ventrac with the wide head be a better option? Take a field trip and see what he has, wants, needs because he is so close. Could be a good episode. Your spreadsheets are better suited to a younger person who will have an ongoing business rather than a man likely looking at selling everything in 5 years. Right now tractors are not selling well in my area. He may not get a good price. 6 months ago it would have sold quickly. Money is not the only consideration.
Good advice.
I agree. If you're76 years old, get the new tractor and enjoy yourself. When you're ready to move to town, you will get all your money back on the internet without involving a dealer trade.
Really good advice
First and foremost I'd think it would greatly depend on the condition of the old tractor.
Mike I like your analysis of the tractor value in 8 years. What is not consider is if Dale doesn't buy the new tractor what could that $30k invested in a CD or Index fund be worth in 8 years. Historical returns on the S&P 500 index funds have doubled in 8 years. Maybe this isn't about the $$ but more about if Dale wants the tractor and can afford it to go for it?
I would tend to agree with you on the $30k price. I have a 2000 New Holland TC29D that new sold for $16,500, add a $4,000 loader and you have a $20,500 investment new. Today, similar tractors are selling for $15,000 with a loader so about 73% of new and they have in excess of 1000 hours on them. A brand new version of my tractor today is right at $30,000 so if that tractor is purchased new now in 20 years it would be worth $21,900. All in all a really good investment considering the utility that you will be gaining.
I agree. I recently sold a 5 year old Kubota L3301 for the same price I bought it for. Basically I had a free tractor for all that time and I got a $25000 cash payday at the end. It was like a nice savings account with the zero percent financing.
I’m like Dale, 72 years old, looking for 4 wheel drive 75 hp tractor with loader. New John Deere is close to $75,000. New Holland is approx. $60,000. Mahindra.is approximately $58,000. Kubota is approximately $55,000. These prices come from web site and not from a dealer. I’ll probably only put 50-100 hours per year at most. We have wooded property, I need to use the tractor to drag trees & so forth. I can get a good used tractor with low hours an loader for $35,000-40-000. New or used.
At that age I would go new for the ergonomics / comfort . He won’t use it much so worrying about all the electronics DPF etc shouldn’t be a concern
I just sold my 1979 JD 850. Paid $5800 14 years ago. Sold it for $5000. No front end loader with a manual transmission 2WD. Don’t know if I did good or not. Always wanted a JD with a front loader and 4WD so I got a 2038. Did I need it-No. But at my age, I just wanted it. New tractors are so much easier to get on and off. A difference like night and day.
Massey Ferguson 282 bought new Two outlets 1450 hrs runs good as everybody gives me hard time made in mexico that is old mexico what is resale value thanks
Hi Mike my new Holland Tc25d was $16k brand new in 2000 (base model, no Fel) I paid 24k in 2020 (deluxe model with a fel, and front mount blower) I couldn't agree more that the retail price of tractors follows the machine though it's life. It may deprecate in the first few years, assuming normal inflation, but on average inflation maintains the retail price of the machine though it's lifespan. An equivalent model new would likely be 30k now, but in 20 years that tractor used will likely sell for around 30k. Now how do I convince my wife that I should buy new because tractors don't loose value.
How much for the 570 case I’d love to have that
my 1959 Oliver 37 Minneapolis Moline. and a 36 Farmall F20. work just fine for me. typical salesman pitch!
Not sure I agree with Mike’s conclusion based upon the limited information presented. While Dale may be able to recoup close or perhaps even more than he pays for a tractor, he also buys in my opinion a load of potential DPF headaches on a 35 hp tractor.
Other than size and age, we are not told of reasons for changing tractors.
While Mike talks about repair cost, we are not aware of even hours on the case.
Basically there are lots of factors, I would want to include in this evaluation other than just purchase price and potential resell value (which is in my opinion a shot in the dark whole blindfolded in a biden/Democrat driven economy.).
Not saying I would not recommend a new tractor, but the 2 factors Mike focused on are only 2 of about a dozen or more factors I would be considering.
When Dale says he thinks 5-10 years remaining on the property, I have to assume that current health factors and mobility are not major concerns at present.
The tractor companies seem to have ironed out the DPF problems on new tractors. The ones to be a little wary of are the 1st gen Tier IV 2014-2017 versions of just about every brand.
Keep the Case and your $30k Dale. If you're not planning on putting more than 100 more hours on it over 5-10 years, you won't even put a dent in that $30k for maintenance and repairs.
Does the same logic hold for a 12,000 lb excavator not used commercially?
Good question, I don't really know. Haven't had enough experience with an excavator. They seem to be in high demand, so there's a chance it would hold true.
keep the old! No payments! i use stuff from the 30s to 60s. its all i use!
Mike do you enjoy visiting the Branson area?
Rusty, yeah, we like eating out down there and boating on Table Rock and going to Silver Dollar City. I'm not a big fan of the shows, if someone is visiting and wants to go we'll take them. I feel like some of them make us look like toothless hillbillies with fiddles.
You're way off base here, Mike. In the intervening years between buying and selling the tractor, Dale could invest the $30k. Investments are never certain, but if he can find something that grows at a rate faster than the 2-3% in your calculations he will end up way ahead by investing the money instead of buying the tractor.
That doesn't mean that buying the new tractor is necessarily wrong-- peace of mind from a warranty, greater ease of operation, etc. may all be real, and could justify the cost. My point is that there is a cost, and in fact it will grow the longer Dale keeps the tractor.
Another point here, a smaller tractor uses less fuel, and a more modern tractor uses less fuel. Even if you're a climate-denier, diesel fuel ain't gonna be any cheaper, quite the contrary. Before I watched this, I was in team "Keep the old one", but if the projected sale price is that close to the original purchase price, you could even make a little profit if you factor in fuel costs. The importnt thing to look for, is total life cycle cost.
The case is a better tractor then any new one yes its old yes its worn but it will still be running in 25 years the new 30grand tractor probably not
There's a big wild card you mentioned at the end, the gentleman is retired and looking at his last tractor. He's earned some creature comforts I'll say. However, if he isn't concerned about creature comforts then this doesn't make a lot of sense. In 8 years he will be 84. How long will he have to enjoy that 30k? And this assumes we continue the strange economic times we're in. The recent EPA ruling could roll back the odious emission regulations and make tractors of this era plummet in value. Conversely they could go even harder on emissions and make us happy to have a tier 5 engine. Lots of uncertainty. Get a nice tractor if you want one, don't worry about the resale.
Lots of good arguments for buying a new tractor. Allow me to show the other side of the ledger. First, let's assume that the old Case 570 does everything that Dale wants out of a tractor. If so, what does he get out of the new tractor that he wouldn't get from his old one? It sounds like he'd be getting increased reliability and more comfort. Mike's argument is that these benefits would 'cost' Dale nothing because he could resell the tractor in eight years for what he paid for it today.
What this ignores is that Dale would have to give up the use of $30,000 for those eight years. If we assume that Dale could invest the $30,000 at 5% per year, it would grow to be worth over $44,000 at the end of year eight -- an increase of $14,000. If Dale only uses the tractor for 100 hours during that time, he would be paying over $140/hour for those increased creature comforts. Even if, as Mike suggests, the old Case might need an expensive (say $4,000) repair, Dale would still be $10,000 to the good by NOT buying a new tractor.
Of course, if I were in Dale's shoes, I'd probably buy a new tractor. I'm sure I could convince myself that the new tractor would allow me to do things the old one wouldn't and that increased capability would 'pay' for the upgrade.
Great points, I don't disagree. I've just seen folks that get by with older stuff and dread using it and have heard too many customers marvel at how much they love their compact tractors and how many tasks they find to do with them. That's probably the salesman in me. If a customer is worried about having enough money to live in retirement then I'd definitely lean toward your logic. In Dale's situation, I sensed that if he keeps the Case he'll never use it (which adds to mechanical issues), but if he had the compact, he'd be out moving stuff around and brush hogging.
How old is the case? Is it pre emmissions?
From the mechanic stand point. He won't spend 30k in repairs in the next few years. So it comes back to his comfort. AC heat etc etc.
He should keep his tractor
But the new tractor warranty will end someday. The repairs will be higher. Which will possibly negate the value of the tractor.
Have you noticed the value of the 1990s and older tractor? They simple and more reliable that's why farmers love them. Oh yea the right to repair turns off buyers too!
What years would you say are the best to look for a 38-45 hp tractor?
I kinda like the John Deere 4044 and Kubota L4310.
@@E.P.7131 good luck finding one for what they are selling for you might as well buy new!
Mike, I would say that you gave some pretty sound advice. I think that I would say for him to buy new also. I would not want to deal with a tractor that may need repairs (time, $$ or willingness) in my Golden years.
If you are reading this buy a new holland! They are slightly better than the case in a few areas a workmaster or boomer would be perfect for you as well!
Keep the Case
Of course what was not mentioned was inflation which wil certainly be about 3% or more over the next 6-8 years…so when Dale sells it for what he paid for it…. he actually took a 3% times 8 -years loss in real dollars.
Yeah hobby farming and a bush hog and about 5 years left of it.
I’d say keep the case retired fix it up and sell it or drive it in parades and such.
Saying nobody wants old tractors is a lie.
Only problem is it ain’t diesel.
But it ain’t doing much it paid for and he’s retiring.
Who would buy a new one in that scenario, especially if it doesn’t make you any money farming. 🤷♀️
I get the possibility of recouping the investment in a few years. But one must count $30k tied up. If the current tractor is in good shape with no major issues and little abuse foreseen (lots of facts not shared in the video), then 30k stays and a portion set aside for some potential repairs. But for that figure, an aweful lot can be repaired and still have a portion of those unspent dollars left. History shows the world is not in a stable condition and things like a pandemic can very quickly changes situations, not typically in a positive fashion. I would be cautious spending that figure if the current tractor is serving the need well.
the trade will almost pay for the new tractor you people do not get it!
Even a 70+ year old 8N is worth more than it was new. 1950 dollars were a lot stronger, though.
I was thinking tractors depreciate over time. Your reasoning is the opposite. Also, if he finances the tractor at say 4% interest, he will pay more than the original price with interest. I do see a value in a loader for an older man to save his back and wear and tear as a person ages.
JD wanted to give me 7-8k for my 4210 with low hrs it has the backhoe and loader.
i was going to pay the rest in cash but 7k is just too low for me to let it go
Hopefully the new tractor is more fuel efficient as well 😉
Came here to say that. I was trying to decide between a new Kubota B series and an old MF 255. The latter was cheaper, but a bit bigger than what I needed and used 4 to 5 times as much diesel per hour!
The extra $30,000 will buy a lot of fuel. The current tractor owes him nothing. If it dies and parts aren't readily available, bury it and then buy a new or used one.
Only exception would be if there are impediments to using the old tractor.
He said he would only put a few hours on the tractor a year. The difference in fuel cost would be so small and insignificant. Also have to figure in DEF cost, which cuts into any fuel savings.
Whole lot of "ifs" and assumptions in those figures. I will submit that the current market isn't sustainable long term. I tend to think it is a risky assumption to think that you can buy a new tractor, keep it a few years, and sell it for the original purchase price. Even if the figures are correct, you also leave out the fact that you are tying up $30k for several years, and you likely could invest that money and make a return if you didn't have it tied up in a tractor. Also, if you can't pay cash for the tractor, you'll have to figure in interest on the loan, and that rate is going up almost daily.
I agree that a new tractor would be nice, but you're going to have to pay for that luxury.
Nothing wrong with it, but you can tell Mike comes from a tractor salesman background.
Yup!
Spoken like a good tractor salesman. Spend 30k or continue to use what you have and keep the 30k. Yes it is a no brainer.
Put the 30K into an investment and earn 6-7% per year on it. Keep using what works. No chips, No DEF, no DPF, no sitting burning fuel while the exhaust regenerates. Just simple functionality. Keep the tried and true.
He’s looking at a defined period of time where the 30k isn’t needed somewhere else. He’s just tying the money up for 8 years and will get his all of his money back. He gets to drive a new tractor for free for 8 years if he’s willing to tie up 30k for that period of time. The only thing he’s loosing is the opportunity cost on the money, i.e. 8% average annual growth in an investment market. If you don’t have 30k that you can tie up for that period of time, keep driving the old tractor.
Exactly. 'Salesman'. Convincing a 76yo man to buy a new tractor, when the one he has is working fine. :(
The guy asking the question indicated he was in his mid 70s and the Case was too big for him.
70 year old man here. Been operating a 1952 JD60 for the past 40years. Cold in the winter, hard to start and operate, 2 wheel drive, lots of maintenance, but I still operate it. But I bought a Massey Ferguson 2860M 60 hp tractor that has a air conditioned cab, 2 rear hydraulic remotes, a good loader with 3rd function, 4 wheel drive, radio, auto throttle, hydrostatic, diesel powered that burns way less fuel. As much as I love that old JD, the new tractor is way more fun and comfy to drive. And like Mike is saying, in current market conditions I can sell it for nearly what I paid for it. It isn’t costing me much to have it. No regrets at all about buying new.
Another area to consider is Safety.
I had 1959 Case and there are virtually no safety features on those old tractors.
No ROPs,
No seat belt,
no seat switch,
PTO locked to the transmission (the brush hog is spinning if the clutch is engaged),
Exhaust pipe and muffler up where it can get caught and fly back at you,
Old brakes that barely stopped,
Gear drive can’t go slow and careful compared to a hydrostatic transmission,
Old 6 volt battery so you can not stop and start when you need to,
High hood so you cannot see compared to a lower hood,
Old tires that might not have good traction,
Not safe enough for the wife and older kids to mow.
I agree with Mike, get a new or newer tractor!
You’ve made it into you seventies don’t die on an old tractor.
:)
With the effects of price inflation, $30k today is worth alot more than $30k in 8 years time. By your price inflation number numbers between $4,461 and £6,896 less. So he might get $30k for it in 8 years time but the spending power of the $30k is only between $23,104 and $25,539.
He clearly wants a new tractor but does not need it. And why is every decision made on an investment point of view - you either need it or you don't. I think he wants a new toy with all the bells and whistles.
I own a 1975 Cass 870 agri king that I bought for 3 grand and have $4300 in after an engine rebuild and a front end loader. As far as a new one I would not even consider as all the trouble I read and heard about the computer crap the would cost the price and major head aches that they have!!
yep you are wrong no way they would give me a decent price for my tractor
id keep the old if its in good shape ... newer tractors are as much junk as new trucks
First
Old tractor is very likely to win.
Just NO to DEF.
Just no to over-electronics equipped ready to break down crap.
If he gets new... go 25 hp. Minimal extraneous crap.
LACK OF THE CRAP IS WHY THE OLD ONES ARE WORTH SO MUCH!
Don't want to have to pay the dealer to reset the computer because you needed to change a light bulb.
BTW... I put 500 hr on my 2020 Branson 2515H in less than 2 years.
No DEF
No extraneous garbage. (no used that I could find that still had wheels at the time)
Mostly... digging with the bucket. I moved appx 3 ACRE FT of dirt. (over 5,000 cubic yards)