Sign up for the new course with Dr's Bart Ehrman & Javad Hamshi which covers the historical problems with the Bible & Quran. mythvisionpodcast.com/bible&quran
@@bradmccoy7996 Yet atheism built O civilizations shows man needed God to send objective Iaws and signs to help recognize, & Islam is the preserved finaI faith predicted in major scriptures like bibIe and vedas. Humanity in whole proves Islam true, so we se Allah is Merciful, Just & All Wise. We learn more in Quran. This is just the past. As well as history signs like Quran corrects bibIe Josef spoke to a king, not firaun and rosetta agrees, many signs of the Iast day coming to fruition. Roam beat lran as Quran predicted. Umar beat Both predicted in hadith. PIague of Amwas. In Recent times competition of building tallest building by Arabs, this happenned suddenly due to oiI. Hadith said Arabia would green again, key word again as oil shows it was green before and it's greening now, a duaI sign. & so forth.
As someone who grew up Muslim, I’ve been screaming for this historical approach. I know it’s a tough pill to swallow but it’s so humbling and liberating and HUMANISING.Thank you so much!!!
@@Cassim125 Islam as it is destroyed my childhood. I used to play guitar and wanted to be a musician and I had a talent and passion for it. But then I was told music was haram and especially stringed instruments. Me being young, I just dropped it all. Now I’m forty and I just can’t forgive it for that. For taking something so beautiful away from me with its dogma.
@@MR_Money_Bags yeah that is quite sad especially coming from that type of conservative background where music is hated like that. But those are all hadith cultural issues of the people. From a purely quranic pov on its history a critical approach naturally cant accept miracles and people like moses abraham theres no evidence they existed. The quran is assumed to be perfect with no errors. So a historical approach causes alot of problems for that claim.
Bart said it's not to destroy the Bible it's so Christians can learn more about the Bible and have a better understanding of the Bible. I don't think a lot of Christians want to learn more because they're comfortable with the knowledge they think they have.
Yet atheism built O civilizations shows man needed God to send objective Iaws and signs to help recognize, & Islam is the preserved finaI faith predicted in major scriptures like bibIe and vedas. Humanity in whole proves Islam true, so we se Allah is Merciful, Just & All Wise. We learn more in Quran. This is just the past. As well as history signs like Quran corrects bibIe Josef spoke to a king, not firaun and rosetta agrees, many signs of the Iast day coming to fruition. Roam beat lran as Quran predicted. Umar would beat Both in hadith. PIague of Amwas. In Recent times competition of building tallest building by Arabs, this happenned suddenly due to oiI. Hadith said Arabia would green again, key word again as oil shows it was green before and it's greening now, a duaI sign.
Derek - can you get a critical historical scholar of Buddhist scripture on? What can we know about the historical Buddha? What teachings really go back to such a figure, and what are later interpolations? Within the modern school of Secular Buddhism, of which I am a part, it is generally argued that within the Pali Canon, the more mundane suttas/chapters are the earliest and most likely to derive from the real teachings of the historical Buddha, and that the suttas with heavier “supernatural” elements are later additions put in after the death of the Buddha as he was increasingly deified. But I’m not sure if this analysis is legit critical scholarship, or ideological argumentation. Hearing from legit scholars in the field would be great. Love your work - thanks man 🙏🏻
I think that's because Buddhism doesn't have a holy book that's why it is more appealing to people. Buddhism is a philosophy. However it doesn't take anything away from the fact that Buddha is possibly a myth.
I think another group who watches channels like Bart’s are non believers who simply love scholarship and exploring where the ideas that shaped and influenced human thinking and culture came from. It’s why I also like channels like Esoterica and am engrossed with the many books by Plato out there now being read by professional readers and actors. The internet may have its problems, but it definitely has its benefits as well.
I have a hard time getting Into esoterica. I know he has great topics but I can never get past the first 10 minutes of his videos without getting bored 😴
@@MuktiArno Another great channel is Centre Place, I just ran across. Right now I’m watching a series on the Canaanite religion and it’s impact on Yahweh
@@miltonbates6425not quite. He has to get to 250K for that, which means he needs 20K more. What’s so incredible remarkable, is that he just hit 100K last year!
When I was 4 years old and heard about a talking snake I knew it was a scam. Unless it told Eve not to eat the cheese cake 🍰. But I just heard the cheese cake part recently from a comedian. I'll find his name 😁 and give him credit sometime. Richard Black?
What is your epistemic standard to know that talking snakes can't exist? How could you _know_ a snake couldn't talk? You take this as a belief, not knowledge. You put your faith in the science of man, while I put my faith in the word of God. I'm kidding of course. 😉
Yet atheism built O civilizations shows man needed God to send objective Iaws and signs to help recognize, & Islam is the preserved finaI faith predicted in major scriptures like bibIe and vedas. Humanity in whole proves Islam true, so we se Allah is Merciful, Just & All Wise. We learn more in Quran. This is just the past. As well as history signs like Quran corrects bibIe Josef spoke to a king, not firaun and rosetta agrees, many signs of the Iast day coming to fruition. Roam beat lran as Quran predicted. Umar would beat Both in hadith. PIague of Amwas. In Recent times competition of building tallest building by Arabs, this happenned suddenly due to oiI. Hadith said Arabia would green again, key word again as oil shows it was green before and it's greening now, a duaI sign.
@@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9 again you don’t dictate this comment section…And you have left the exact same comment on a different post so maybe you should try to stay on topic and stop telling people what to do thank you have a good day
@@pragmaticcrystal I dictating to you before, you have the myths & I have evidence, so maybe you should listen to me, unless you know I'm right but don't want to expose it.
Sometimes I think why would God make us guilt trip like this man??😢 Having to justify each and every day about the morality of God and doubt ourselves. Does God really punish us for using our common sense?
@@CristianoRonaldo-li9guWhat I believe is religion is a man made construct to train / control the masses via a 3rd party (God). If something really bad happens then the masses can't blame the Priests / leaders who didn't see it coming while still maintaining their power. Man Gods and priest tended to die at the hands of their populations before that invention if such an event happened. It's pretty clever actually but deception none the less. For what ever reason truth doesn't work on 1/2 the population, they prefer feel good fiction instead. It's who we are as evolving primates. ✌️
It's man made for sure. But it's a complicated man made series of stories of which parts are true. Yet some parts are obscure. It's fun discovering it all
@@MuktiArno I love islam man. Can't leave it. Also Christianity makes sense as well except the trinity and original sin nonsense. If jesus was just a messenger I could accept Christianity. If it's all man made why do billions believe it tho??
Well in the Quran God says if you don’t believe that the verses in the Quran are from us than gather all of the humans and produce a verse like that of the Quran and you will never be able to do it than fear the hell fire Quran 2 verse 23
What an incredible job by such an intelligent young man. You deserve each one of the subscribers that you have. Congratulations! I find myself trying to save all your podcasts.
As an ex Muslim, im really glad that the issues of the Qur'an are becoming more mainstream The claims made for Islam in comparison with the reality are completely different
@@thenun1846 May - who understood the Heart / the Core of Qur’aan (Allaah’s creation / evolution) without a miss - YOU guide yourself into the ones who inherit everlasting this very earth!
@@afzalshahid3884 Why are you feeling sorry for someone who knowingly with pride declared his own enmity to himself as if he were the owner of his own body?!
Muslims who sincerely follow the teachings of the Quran don't lie. Lying is a sin unless it's a matter of life and death or it's to fool an enemy in war. However official treaty or covenant must be uphold unless the other party breaks it.
Wait if Javad believes the Quran contains legends and myths that’s fine but he’s literally not a Muslim anymore 😂. Just be a secular liberal “spiritualist” bro it will make life easier for you 🤷🏾♂️. I will definitely check the course that Bart and Javad are doing
I was about to ask, does he believe in the Quran...???? And then to say that the bible doesn't have problems?? Forget about what Christians says about the bible what about what the Quran say about the previous revelations????
@@Kassalawy56789 he confuses me a lot he says certain verses are borrowed from other scriptures, the Quran doesn’t really understand the trinity but at the same it does, like what? And he believes there are certain legends and myths in the Quran. I will have to watch his course with Bart Ehrman but Javad’s “scholarly expertise” is really overhyped, plus he hasn’t published anything yet. I even doubt he can quote the Quran in Arabic fluently and SUPER highly doubt he can access the hadith and scholarly traditions in Arabic only 🤷🏾♂️
Why would you bring a third rate scholar like Javad, who’s not even respected among Muslim academics and scholars to speak about Islam? Is Bart Ehrman regarded the same by Christians? Nope. He’s well respected for his criticisms whereas Javad is known for his dishonesty. Use common sense!
@PinkDevilFish - I am a happy Former Mormon, too. Though before I heard of Dr Ehrman. He probably would have been very helpful to me. As it was, I had to go it alone. But I made it. When I finally admitted atheism to my brother, he told me he had adopted atheism, too. We danced!
I'm happy to hear that you were able to get out of the Mormon Church. I always felt weird about that Church even as a child. To be honest Joseph Smith was a traveling salesman and a lot of people bought into his product. Joseph Smith failed the test of the prophet. He prophesied that he would build the Mormon Church in Missouri, within a year of announcing that prophecy the Mormons were ran out of Missouri, his prophecy never came to pass, this should have been a tell tale sign to all who were following him, if they truly believed in the Bible.
It is easy to write a profecy into a story, because you know the outcome. The Bible is the greatest story ever told. The Quran is the greatest song ever written. They are not lists of historical dates.
Dr. Ehrman makes a very good point related to plagiarism. Modern scholars specifically do NOT parrot everything that everyone else says, exactly because by doing so they open themselves up to huge lawsuits. Ancient scholars had different parameters, though I suspect a lot of them chose to explore things with their own twist in order to prove that they were actually putting their own thoughts into the material, without trying to invalidate anyone else's unique perspective. Of course this might cause some confusion, as it can even today, but since it's a consideration now why should it not have been a consideration thousands of years ago?
Yet atheism built O civilizations shows man needed God to send objective Iaws and signs to help recognize, & Islam is the preserved finaI faith predicted in major scriptures like bibIe and vedas. Humanity in whole proves Islam true, so we se Allah is Merciful, Just & All Wise. We learn more in Quran. This is just the past. As well as history signs like Quran corrects bibIe Josef spoke to a king, not firaun and rosetta agrees, many signs of the Iast day coming to fruition. Roam beat lran as Quran predicted. Umar would beat Both in hadith. PIague of Amwas. In Recent times competition of building tallest building by Arabs, this happenned suddenly due to oiI. Hadith said Arabia would green again, key word again as oil shows it was green before and it's greening now, a duaI sign.
@@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9 I agree brother. I am doing my best to preach Islam by giving out the Quran, thru my writings. One of my 1st book is under the way of publication. Plus, people should watch or listen to learned people such as the host of One Message Foundation. Second I congratulate all the atheists that they are HALF or partial Muslims by saying "There are no gods" which is the 1st portion of the Islamic testimony, all they need to know that Allah is only to be worshiped, who is the creator of all.
THE PROBLEM IS NOT WITH BIBLE OR QURAN, THE PROBLEM IS WITH HISTORY... HISTORY DEALS ONLY WITH SUPPOSEDLY FACTS...THOUGH IT FAILS AT THIS MANY TIMES... BUT BIBLE AND QURAN MAINLY DEAL WITH FANTASY.. FANTASIES... IN THE GUISE OF BEING HISTORY....
I remember early in my deconstruction journey I found myself in a college course about Islam and found the theological arguments against Christianity compelling. So, while I’ll probably never be a Christian again nor would I convert to Islam (because it has gotten its own set of problems), I do respect the religion a lot.
@@matthewkopp2391 True, but Islam is like that multiplied 100 fold. It's not just far more widespread among laymen and elites, but their reaction is often vicious, not just silencing people by threats but often actually killing them if they go too far. There hasnt been anything like that for Christianity, with perhaps a handful of exceptions, since what, the 17th or 18th century? And in Judaism perhaps for 2000 years (assuming the sanhedrin ever did that at all, i'm no expert)
@@isaamer194 Meir Kahane? I didnt say there werent Jewish terrorists or extremists I was talking specifically about reactions to criticism. As far as I know he didnt threaten or kill any scholars who studied Judaism or whp were digging ruins in the land who disagreed with vital claims for his particular interpretation of zionism ("Joshua our ancestor conquered the land more than 3000 years ago... David was a great king who ruled a large empire" etc... And he had plenty of opportunity to do so.
This course is a long time overdue. If you really want to stop the spread of a Abrahamic oppression, please make this material available for free. The people who need this information the most aren't going to pay. I know that you would still have support. Make the material into a book and sell that, but put videos on it out, in Arabic and English. Thanks for reading this.
I've concluded that Quran does not accept Jesus as prophet Esa. For example following verse clearly states قَالَ إِنِّي عَبْدُ اللَّهِ آتَانِيَ الْكِتَابَ وَجَعَلَنِي نَبِيًّا He said, 'Lo, I am God's servant; God has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet. 19-Maryam : 30 Jesus never claimed to be a prophet nor he claimed to receive any book from God. Moreover, old testament is not Torah. It never existed earlier than 350 BCE.
Both of them are the living proof of verses 11 & 12 of Surrat AlBaqarah وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لَا تُفْسِدُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ قَالُوا إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ (11) أَلَا إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ الْمُفْسِدُونَ وَلَٰكِن لَّا يَشْعُرُونَ (12) and verses 103 and 104 of Surrat AlKahf قُلْ هَلْ نُنَبِّئُكُم بِالْأَخْسَرِينَ أَعْمَالًا (103) الَّذِينَ ضَلَّ سَعْيُهُمْ فِي الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَهُمْ يَحْسَبُونَ أَنَّهُمْ يُحْسِنُونَ صُنْعًا (104) The original Arabic text is included for one of them to translate it to the other
We need more sceptics and people that refute religion. There are so many harmful things in religion. Without religion, life becomes so much more valuable. Less suicide bombers that love death more than life.
The following verse is often quoted with the remarks that there's nothing contradictory in Quran. But this verse is actually accepting that Quran has, not a lot of but, some contradictions in it. أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ ۚ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِنْدِ غَيْرِ اللَّهِ لَوَجَدُوا فِيهِ اخْتِلَافًا كَثِيرًا Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction. 4-An-Nisa : 82
It is disingenuous from Bart to compare myths about George Washington and Jesus. Jesus's myths would be better compared with unicorn myths as both, unlike George Washington, have never existed.
I've enjoyed listening to this channel. I am a Christian, but perhaps a more "nuanced" one. I think Derek's content is quite valuable. Discarding an overly simplistic worldview is paramount for personal growth. I've come to adopt a more esoteric view of things synthesized with aspects of Christianity. Putting too much emphasis on authority whether it be a historical book, ecclesiastical body, or some supposed "tradition" leads to more harm than good. People's worldviews are often shattered because of this over reliance.
This is the issue with the Quran. there were no non-Jewish prophets appointed by the God of Abraham. For Muhammed to claim to be an Old Testament prophet is nonsense! Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to FINISH TRANSGRESSION, TO PUT AN END TO SIN, TO ATONE FOR WICKEDNESS, TO BRING IN EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS, TO SEAL UP VISION AND PROPHECY and to anoint the Most Holy Place. The prophet Daniel chapter 9: 24-27 "In times gone by God spoke to our father through the prophets, but these days He has spoken to us by His Son," Hebrews chapter 1:1-4
All people are focusing on material things. No one talks about if we follow the teachings of bible or Quran. Moreover What's good or wrong with translations or understanding of Quran.
Great show Derek and great initiative. I've suggested to you before that you interview a muslim Quranist because they have been shocking the muslim world constantly with their critical approach to the traditionalist legacy that muslims have inherited over the ages and have not dared to question. But quranists are not a new phenomenon. Their position has been represented in many groups and individuals over the ages such as Ibn Rushd and Ibn Sina among others and groups such as the Mu'tazila. And they always ended up being called heretics and metaphorically crucified only to have their message revived by curious minds in later generstions and then accepted by the majority as being true. That in short is the parable of Jesus the Teacher, and applies to all thinkers who come up with new ideas to challenge the prevailing narrative. Like Socrates, Copernicus, Galelio, etc. Similarly Moses is the Researcher who seeks wisdom by realising that path is a fine balance between knowledge and experience, hence the parting of the metaphoric sea of wisdom. Most muslim normies don't realise that the Quran is an ancient scripture that is still preserved in archaic Arabic runes (not modern Arabic language) and that it expresses ideas, processes and natural laws by means of PARABLES. It literally says "We narrate to you the best of parables by means of which we reveal to you this Quran..." (12:3). In this sense, none of the prophets mentioned in these parables are real historic figures, not Mohamed, not Jesus and not Moses. These parables convey intellectual ARCHETYPES that apply to individuals as well as human society as a whole. So they are RECURRING archetypes that show up in every single generation. Great show! Keep going. A Muslim heretic.
The idea of an omnipotent God/Allah passing on essential information using a book is just plain stupid. He could have simply downloaded all the information directly into our brains..
@@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9 "We were given ability to recognize truth" To recognize truthes like that rivers flow downstream, that razor sharp teeth can rip flesh from you or that Earth is an oblate spheroid revolving around the sun got selected to surive. That invisible, immortal brain organ lacking thinkers called deities such as "Allah" shall exist is not part of any truth - it is an invention so that people can have the vague hope that their life is not mortal and finite, while it is.
@@MohamedShou Declaring an argument without addressing it "edgelordi" or any other slurterm is not making the argument disappear. You seem to be just emotionally annoyed that a more logical world where a deity is an actual competent info giver is not in accordance with the actual reality we experience. So you have the idea that the world must be as it is but it must also contain Allah by default/dogma and you just dismiss the argument with an insult try, so the valid argument a person brings up that takes the info efficiency into focus of discussion shall be dismissed in your opinion, because you might have the wrong feelings that the world just must be as it is with alllah it just must be must be must be in pure desperation cries. This type of acting is not going to work as the valid argument does not just magically disappear by being desperate behind a facade of arrogance or any fake emoticons. ;-) It is even double funny as Islam basically teaches that humans must have corrupted previous revelation texts like the indschil/injil book or the texts of the jewish people to set the true revelation "straight again" with the final Qur'an, while it also collapses yet again as there are in fact different Qur'an versions Muslims usually deny while they are in museums. Even when they also invented stories that some Qur'an verses like the stoning verse have been eaten by a goat as admitted info corruption once more is just nodded as well in those telltales.
@@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9 Lots of civilizations were built by worshipping many gods (indeed, much older civilizations than either Christendom or Islam - if we want to classify those as neatly labeled civilizations), like ancient Egypt and China. and even systematically sacrificing your own children like Carthage, Meso-American cultures, etc so what's your argument there?
As far as I know, Atheism and Theism are Speculative Philosophy , and Natural Philosophy and Science (Psychology ....History of Compared Religions) are Critic Philosophy.
Congratulations to Javad Hamshi on finding a path to acquire an income from going beyond his faith traditions and the Sunnah of the Prophet. I hope it garners all the fame and mammon, in this life, that he is striving so hard for. Keep looking for the liberal's truth.
*Truth Stands Out Clear From Falsehood* In full disclosure, Dr. Hashmi needs to make clear the distinction between the Quran (oral recitation) and a 'Mushaf' (i.e. physical book). Again, let's hope he does so. Thanks
The oral tradition is stronger than the use of the mushaf. The mushaf is just an additional tool for the preservation of the Quran. Even if you know modern Arabic you will not be able to recite it correctly without oral teaching of a teacher. We don't really know how an englishmen in the 10th century speaks unless there is an audio recording which we know does not exist.
Einstein was bad at math, Washington chopped down a cherry tree, Aliens crashed in the southwest in 1947 and their ship was reverse engineered in area 51, And thats how we got fiber optic cables and microchips and tr-3b unmanned dirigibles🖤♠️🖤♠️🖤♠️
You are comparing Apples and Oranges. The Bible is a written book transmitted exclusively on Hard copy ( manuscripts) while the Quran is a recited book transmitted by mass oral transmission with unbroken chain of narrators ( the manuscript are there to help). Hence if you transpose the critical approach you apply to the Bible to apply it to the Quran, you will come up with conclusions that does not explain the available Data. The Quran is recited in the same manner all over the World according to each KIRAA (i.e Mode of Recitation). A Muslim in Malaysia who memorized the Quran according to WARSH recitation will recite the Quran in the same way, WORD for WORD and VOWEL for VOWEL, as a Muslim from Morocco. and the same thing could be said for other KIRAAT. In consequence, the conclusions Jawad is presenting fells too much short in explaining the available DATA, hence void and null.
You get an award for mostly avoiding insults, and for avoiding character assassinations and threats. Congratulations, you already belong to a minority (sadly) of Muslims when it comes to reactions to things they find threatening.
Congrats for avoiding engaging with my arguments. Instead you go to adhominem attacks. Muslim are not afraid of discussing the transmission of the Quran. What is your take on my arguments???
@@AbouAdam-k2j I dont want to I dont know enough about that so I just grant the Qurans preservation for the sake of argument. The issue however is so much more important than that, its to be able to discuss this or any other topic without insults, innuendo or threats. And looking at most of your fellow Muslims in the comments here I was genuinely congratulating your comment for being civilized.
@@nonomnismoriar9051 I apologize for misunderstanding your comment. The reaction of fellow Muslims is a natural response when they feel their beliefs are threatened. However, such reactions often stem from a lack of understanding of the subject. I encourage my brothers and sisters to deepen their knowledge of our religion and refrain from engaging in topics they may not fully comprehend, as this can be detrimental both to themselves and to the image of Islam. I kindly invite you to read the Quran and form your own opinion on it. I would be happy to provide you with an English translation of the Quran if you're interested.
@@AbouAdam-k2janother Moslems who cannot handle truth, most part of world recite same Qur'an because current Qur'an was cannoinsed in 1924 in Cairo Egypt, before that there were fights among moslems because of different recitation, coz of multiple Qur'an found throughout the world, Qur'an was never "perfectly preserved" as Moslems brags about, after finalisation of current Qur'an it was given printed in Saudi at time of king fahd and was distributed to all the pilgrims comming to Mecca, still there are more then 30 versions of Quran which are found with which doesn't even matches each other
So he is going to dismantle the Quran in this corse huh ? I would be surprised if he speaks Arabic because they all say the same things and it’s going to be embarrassing for him(from a knowledgeable person in Arabic and Quran).
Why do you all seem so fragile? Do you have any idea how that looks from someone on the outside? It sounds like "I will character-assassinate (not to mention approve of/justify/ignore his actual assassination if he goes too far) this guy to no end because I am SOOO convinced of the traditonal narrative and apparatus my scholars who have had a vested interested in this from the beginning have told me". If you want to stick to your traditionalist guns, that's fine, but just say "I disagree with Dr Hashmi's approach and conclusions and if necessary say reason X Y Z". This is not normal behavior for anyone. This is some of the most extreme cult behavior out there, and 99,9% of Muslims do it, from the most fanatical Salafis to Sufi dancers, if confronted with this situation.
Without being an adhominem attack against Jawad, in a debate with Daniel haqiatju, he was asked by daniel to recite a short chapter of the Quran and Jawad refused to do so. This denounces an issue with his arabic. To be able to practrice Textual criticism or study from a historical point of view of the Quran, it requires to have an advanced knowledge of Arabic.
@@AbouAdam-k2j agreed, as any other scholars of religion. In example, in Christianity and Judaism scholars should have that amount of knowledge in Hebrew and the old greek language to understand the biblical texts. Honestly it was my first time to see this Jawad and nothing new.
@@AbouAdam-k2jI have hardly seen Javad recite the Quran, the hadiths or any classical Islamic scholarly traditions in Arabic. In traditional Islamic scholarship YOU BETTER know the Arabic language AMAZINGLY WELL to be at least considered a "student of knowledge" not even Scholar yet haha. So I highly doubt Javad knows Arabic fluently let alone reciting the Quran correctly
Buddha existed ,mahaveera existed , Jesus existed ,zoroaster is doubtful ,muhammad has existed but Moses himself is very highly legendary , Abraham obviously legendary completely etc. but as u said everything about them and their later interpretations is legendary
What about the magic man called mini me ? Or the other god called the wrath of khan ? Or gay jesu esu , the charlatan ? What about charlamagne tha god ? What about prophet stallion of the cimmarron ? What about them. Please talk
Muslims love to reference Barts excellent work until the point where he talks about the fallacy of eternal torture and hellfire. A clear New Testament corruption which found it's way into the Quran in a huge way.
I am confidant i saw 0ld testament verses on heI. Also Quran corrects not copies bibIe. Josef spoke to a king, not a firaun like bible says and rosetta Iost for tjousands of years agrees with Quran.
@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543 I found only one very ambiguous verse in the Old Testament that mentioned corpses with maggots and an unquenchable inner fire. Something that could be interpreted so many different ways. No mention of Subterranean torture Chambers or lakes of fire. Those come from very questionable New Testament bible books such as Revelations. These corruptions found their way into the Quran to serve the same purpose by terrifying people into conversion.
@@DHOP-tm2ch You didn't reply to point verified by history. Quran fixes bibIe not copies as Quran says Josef spoke to a King not firaun like bibIe says and Rosetta confirms.
*Truth Stands Out Clear From Falsehood* In full disclosure, Dr. Hashmi needs to make clear the distinction between the Quran (oral recitation) and a 'Mushaf' (i.e. physical book).
8:07 Our dear doctor, you should learn Arabic. The Quran states to follow the books and also mentions that the books are corrupted. Both of these, you have chosen without attempting to reconcile between the texts. Which books does the Quran talk about and why does it oppose them so openly? Either you claim that the Quran contradicts itself in its presentation of Jews and Christians, or you simply did not understand the Quran's intended meaning at all.
Finding fault with the Qur'an (a supremely easy task for anyone who has actually read it) can put you on the slippery slope of recognising the ridiculousness of similar supernatural happenings in your own religion. Irremediable atheism lurks!
The problems start with why those books are important, and what has happened to the story, "Telephone"d out of comprehension, sequence, and significance. Why do we keep it, several millennia after the events it describes? We know it contains the "mysteries" men have wondered about for those same millennia, without divining the answers. The stories we treasure are "survivor" stories, now bowdlerized and emasculated for modern audiences, but still describing events we know were titanic. Just not God doing the damage, however much they try to sell it.
@@redx11x Or, you don't know as much as you think. It is the definition of arrogance to assume things about someone you never met, have had no interaction with, and cannot know anything about. I do not claim to be any kind of religious expert, but the stories are not about "God", they are about the events mankind endured, and survived. Stories about the events are told to children, but adults shy away, without understanding, or even considering, why. I read the Koran first in 1965, when I was trying to teach myself Arabic, trying to associate the English translation with the written Arabic. I gave it up, in the end, because there were no such things as "language tapes". Arabic was too different from everything I knew to surmount not being able to hear the words. I went on to learn seven languages, though, from Spanish and Latin, to French, German, Italian, and VietNamese (English makes it seven) I read enough, and, it doesn't matter, because many, if not most, of the same books used in the Old Testament of Christian Bibles, are found in the Koran, making the story they present far more significant than currently believed. It was this utility that attracted me, a set of stories common to three divergent "belief" systems. It's almost as if God is SMARTER than Man, and realized His creation was so wrong-headed, not everyone would accept the SAME set of guidelines. The Koran was created last, of the great religions (their terms, not mine), almost 1,500 years AFTER the last of the sequence of events outlined in the Jewish Bible, the Tanakh, and used in Christian Bibles as the Old Testament, and in the Koran. That is history, agreed upon by almost everybody, but no one has "heard" from, or seen, God, in the three millennia since the last example cited in those "Bible stories", probably II Isaiah, although not identified as such. When stripped of religiosity, they tell a dramatic story, one we are intimately familiar with, because these wildly unbelievable events were also the basis for ALL mythology, legendary feats, and whispered lore passed down by initiates who passed on important information to groups of survivors. The stories are survivor tales, deserving of respect and admiration, for their rigors. That's the truth you won't find in any of those books, because religion, regardless of what name you call God, is Big Business. Where else can the uneducated get a job with no experience, simply by "interpreting" the Word of God. Where else can someone be an "expert" in what an "invisible friend" says, or means by saying, without having any contact with that being? God said to tell you that, by the way. I don't think He's very impressed with any humans, regardless of how, or when, they claim to "worship" Him. More ugliness, killing, and destruction has been done "in the name of God", than all other reasons! It's hard to imagine any God being happy with the state of the world, and Muslims are as guilty of that as anyone. Christians have a long history of evil, on their own, and, truly, as it says, "Man is born of sin", we cannot escape it, except by hard effort and constant reminding. At any rate, SOMETHING happened, mostly in the 2nd Millennium BC, that CONVINCED humans an "extraterrestrial" being had it in for human beings. ALL "modern" religions got their start in the 12th Century BC, when Zoroaster (Zarathrustra) started his religion, and the Jews became monotheistic, leading, inevitably, to Christians and Muslims. Akhenaten probably lived in that time, too, out-of-place by Egyptologists, who've done worse. Our common ancient past is a chaotic mess, mostly due to the inabilities and misunderstandings of the earliest investigators, a problem that has only intensified over the centuries since those naive diggers first turned a spade.
I watched alot of Javads content while I was into my more “quranist phase” (rejecting certain Hadith which make Islam look awful). I feel he also is slightly quranist and will reject certain hadiths, etc. this was all before I left the faith completely. So I do wonder how Javad can give a truly critical view of the Quran’s history while at the same time believing it comes from a God he believes in… I can already see in this interview he keeps kinda covering his own belief. It’s exhausting listening to these Quranist style Muslims because everything is “mistranslated” “misunderstood” etc while their only agenda is to prove Islam to be true, and defend it against criticism. Javad probably wants to come up with his own version of Islam. The Quran centric route.
I was an agnostic until it hit me that God is real and I better start learning Islam. Being a scientist I verify everything. And reading just the Quran I am 200% convinced God is real, the prophet received the revelations and society is at a loss for not following the Quran. I would like to know what prompted you to leave Islam? Hadiths are man made. And because of that, it should not be considered as a complete source of truth in understanding Islam.
@@0786AHA the concept of hell and eternal torture, 4.34, the self serving verses (such as Mohammad being allowed to marry whom he wanted and that any women could give herself to him), right hand possessions etc
@@Roxan926 The multiple marriages occuring in society was a accepted event in pre Islamic Arabia. And a widowed women at that time was having a hard time getting remarried and support. The prophet married widows to support them and provide an example to the community to take care of them. Prophet Solomon in the Bible had 600 wives.
@@DrazenPerkovic-p8jIt hasn't been changed, you're just spreading nonsense, yes we all know about Uthman, but that's not what you and other Islamophobes described, it hasn't been corrupted and changed like the Bible
Wow this is absolutely sensational! I was a Christian and always saw similarities between the Qur'an and the Bible having read both. Muslims would often actually agree whilst Christians wouldn't. However the myth of the resurrection is dismissed in the Qur'an but apparently their belief is that Jesus is still alive. How!? I absolutely don't know. Apparently he would raise Muhammad from the dead to judge the world. Surprisingly Christians simply say Jesus will. Paul of Tarsus is Saint Paul in the Bible. Christians see him as a prophet. Catholics always have an epistle. In Islam Paul is a sham. Interestingly the Qur'an has similar traits to apocryphal scripture which the church rejected. So in a nutshell if the Bible is a myth which it is then so is the Qur'an. In a couple of decades I hope we'll be talking about Christian and Islam mythology.
Javad Hashmi credentials are close to non, while Bart Eherman has a long successful academic carrier and the former is trying to benefit from the latter!
Historical truth can't be the measure because it is not stable information. Much of historical data changes with time or changes depending on who finances the research. I Advise learning arabic first... it will save you a lot of embarrasing nonsenses...
They already discovered tezts in Birmingham library in England that went back 1340 years ago, which is exactly the same as today's Quran. Very low-level arguments This guy needs to go back to school
Yet atheism built O civilizations shows man needed God to send objective Iaws and signs to help recognize, & Islam is the preserved finaI faith predicted in major scriptures like bibIe and vedas. Humanity in whole proves Islam true, so we se Allah is Merciful, Just & All Wise. We learn more in Quran. This is just the past. As well as history signs like Quran corrects bibIe Josef spoke to a king, not firaun and rosetta agrees, many signs of the Iast day coming to fruition. Roam beat lran as Quran predicted. Umar would beat Both in hadith. PIague of Amwas. In Recent times competition of building tallest building by Arabs, this happenned suddenly due to oiI. Hadith said Arabia would green again, key word again as oil shows it was green before and it's greening now, a duaI sign.
How so? From the Christian side, yeah, from the Muslim side, he'll probably use some of the critical material. Besides, he deals with traditionalist Islam, in at least quite a few vital points, very well. Not because he's a genius, but he's just dug up good arguments in some cases, this is undeniable. So you're saying that if more Muslims take a nuanced view on stuff like the credibility of Aisha's age ahadith and so on this will make DW's counterapologetics/polemics less successful? I mean yeah, but his main target is traditionalist Islam, and one could argue that the concessions on the unreliability of ahadith is already somewhat of a problem of its own for "critical" Islam/liberal Islam, whatever you want to call it. Certainly of a lesser magnitude than the problems traditionalist Islam is faced with, but still.
@@nonomnismoriar9051 DW main arguments against Islam are stuff like "legends in the Quran" and "variants of the Quran" "the Quran confirms but contradicts the bible" while ignoring that the Bible does contain legends, variants, interpolations (quran doesnt have) and that the bible itself contradicts itself ... like so what if the Quran contradicts it if the main "source" is already in contradiction ? And just like he has a theological justification for them the Muslims also do. For the Aisha thing DW himself admitted in the debate he had with Uthman ibn Farooq that it doesn't discredit the veracity of Islam, so he doesn't use it as an argument he is just trolling Muslims with.
Till this day the biblical prophecies are coming to pass look at the nation of Israel and the nations of Islam it tells it all. Keep rejecting the word of God the day will come when God will reject you.
@@matthewkopp2391 Even the ancients could very well differentiate true stories from fantastical tales of fiction, however, even when the tales weren't presented as such, as is the case here. Just read Lucian.
Ask any Chief and he will tell snakes don't talk..... Only man speaks with forked tongue...... Maybe that's why we of Red Nation don't write...... They speak as caretakers of Gods things..... Start by following your written commandments .....NOW MAN WRITES IN FORKED TONGUE..... MAYBE SOMEDAY YOU WILL ASK SOMEONE WHO ALWAYS FOLLOWED THE LIVING WORD STILL LIVING ONLY BY THE SPOKEN WORD FROM THE HEART OF THE PEOPLE......KID..... There is still so much to be said however till then A-ho.
Most people think even the Muslims themselves, that "Allah" of Islam, their God is also the God of Abraham. The God of Abraham said He doesn't change His mind, Numbers 23:19, and He had declared in the past what He will do, Isaiah 46:9-11. God said through "the offspring" of Isaac and ------>Jacob/Israel, A JEW, will ALL NATIONS ON EARTH BE BLESSED, Genesis 26:4, 28:14, and NOT through Ishmael, Genesis 21:12. Fast forward, when the identity of "the offspring", The Jew, became apparent, Jesus Christ, for though the Romans tried to stop Christianity for two hundred years by pers*cuting and kil*ng the early Christians, they were used instead to spread CHRISTianity faster and farther TO THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD. And "Allah" established Islam, overshadowed The Jew Jesus, and commanded instead for people to follow Muhammad, an Ishmaelite, "to be blessed", **CONTRARY** to what God said. Logically, one of this two idea could be true: 1, God is a boastful liar, claiming to know the future when He doesn't that He needed to change His mind. 2. "Allah" of Islam is not the God of Abraham. Who would have been there to have known God's instructions? Who deceived Adam and Eve to obey him rather than God?, Yes more likely "Allah" of Islam is the Serpent, who is doing to us what he did before, misleading people to not follow God's instructions. The God of Abraham Himself made an "everlasting" covenant with Abraham that He will be the God of his descendants through Isaac, Genesis 17:7,19, reaffirmed that though Israel will sin He will never reject them, Jeremiah 31:35-37, and fulfilled His promise that His exiled people Israel will be returned to their homeland and never to be uprooted again, Amos 9:14-15. And "Allah" of Islam, instructs his Islamic worshippers to execute "his" judgement to Israel because of their sin, to k*ll the Jews.
@@isaamer194 The descendants of Jacob/Israel, were called Jews from their "religion" that was called Judaism, after the "people " who practiced them, generally more known as Judeans. Probably they started to be shortly called the "Juds". And most people today know that Jews are Israelites, descendants of Jacob/Israel.
Yea... Jews also agree that the God of Abraham is who Muslims worship. In fact Kaba is the legacy of prophet Abraham. He and his son built it. And Jewish sources claim that prophet Moses made a pilgrimage to Kaba. 💯☑️☑️☑️
@@0786AHA The succeeding generations after David seemed to have doubted that their God is the only true God, for they were manipulated and convinced to worship other gods which caused God to allow His people to be overcome by her enemies and be exiled from the land He gave them. And Jesus/Yeshua's name and His miracles must have already been known among the Arab nations that they cannot do away with Him. Not sure though if the idea that Jesus was not crucified was an intended lie, or the fact that many saw Him alive and ascended to heaven (the resurrected) seemed to contradict that He died. And it seemed some Jews themselves misinterpreted their Torah regarding Jesus who regarded Jesus as nothing more than just a blasphemer, but the Arabs regarded as a prophet. Which should have more weight then? God's word?, or the understanding of the Jews?
@@0786AHA Just a sudden thought, I wonder how can there be a "reliable" source of information for the Jews about the Kaaba being a legacy of Abraham, considering the Israelites who entered the "promised land" were in Egypt for 400 years, Genesis 15:13.
And I wanted to ask if you have any good critical position on the Quran to recommend? I mean one that on the one hand tries to understand the message, show the historical background and links to the realities of Muhammad's time, show the problems and difficulties, but which doesn't sell it in some anti-Islamic venom. Critical understanding, not hatred
@@HardHardMasterand what was his ambitions? To reject the riches of this world and to give to the poor. To look after the orphan and the destitute. To free the slave and forgive his enemies. What exactly was his Misson according to you
@@PKowalski2009take the Quran and get a copy of something called the Seerah. The Seerah is the life of vProphet Muhammed. As the Quran was revealed throughout his life, it is reflected in the seerah There are few out there just type up seerah. You can pick it up for free or listen to any youtube video. Its detailed.
6:30 Honestly, as a Muslim, I don't really care if someone converts to Islam. I'm just looking for the truth, you know? I follow Bart Ehrman as he criticizes the Bible, and I'm not saying it's completely distorted, but my book is the absolute truth. I'm just trying my best to understand more simply.
![PURPEECH - นี่ฉันเองคนที่... (It's me) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NuhHd0hOOg8/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TH] JFT vs RLF - VCT Ascension Pacific - Day 2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PuIH7w_jO6c/mqdefault.jpg)
Sign up for the new course with Dr's Bart Ehrman & Javad Hamshi which covers the historical problems with the Bible & Quran.
mythvisionpodcast.com/bible&quran
As a former Christian and former Muslim - twice fooled! 😆 - I am signing up! ♥️
@@SethHdkyeah there's alot of people on the road to destruction
@@bradmccoy7996
Proselytize, bro proselytize! 😆
@@bradmccoy7996 Yet atheism built O civilizations shows man needed God to send objective Iaws and signs to help recognize, & Islam is the preserved finaI faith predicted in major scriptures like bibIe and vedas. Humanity in whole proves Islam true, so we se Allah is Merciful, Just & All Wise. We learn more in Quran. This is just the past. As well as history signs like Quran corrects bibIe Josef spoke to a king, not firaun and rosetta agrees, many signs of the Iast day coming to fruition.
Roam beat lran as Quran predicted.
Umar beat Both predicted in hadith.
PIague of Amwas.
In Recent times competition of building tallest building by Arabs, this happenned suddenly due to oiI.
Hadith said Arabia would green again, key word again as oil shows it was green before and it's greening now, a duaI sign.
& so forth.
@@SethHdk
With marxism? atheism buiIt least and maimed in the moraI vacum most guys.
As someone who grew up Muslim, I’ve been screaming for this historical approach. I know it’s a tough pill to swallow but it’s so humbling and liberating and HUMANISING.Thank you so much!!!
It will destroy the faith. That doesnt happen with the bible because it doesnt have to be perfect
@@Cassim125 Islam as it is destroyed my childhood. I used to play guitar and wanted to be a musician and I had a talent and passion for it. But then I was told music was haram and especially stringed instruments. Me being young, I just dropped it all. Now I’m forty and I just can’t forgive it for that. For taking something so beautiful away from me with its dogma.
@@MR_Money_Bags yeah that is quite sad especially coming from that type of conservative background where music is hated like that. But those are all hadith cultural issues of the people. From a purely quranic pov on its history a critical approach naturally cant accept miracles and people like moses abraham theres no evidence they existed. The quran is assumed to be perfect with no errors. So a historical approach causes alot of problems for that claim.
How sure you being destroy ??@@MR_Money_Bags
@@eijakhajat8782 i don't understand
Bart said it's not to destroy the Bible it's so Christians can learn more about the Bible and have a better understanding of the Bible. I don't think a lot of Christians want to learn more because they're comfortable with the knowledge they think they have.
Also, actual knowledge destroys religion.
He is not being honest
Yet atheism built O civilizations shows man needed God to send objective Iaws and signs to help recognize, & Islam is the preserved finaI faith predicted in major scriptures like bibIe and vedas. Humanity in whole proves Islam true, so we se Allah is Merciful, Just & All Wise. We learn more in Quran. This is just the past. As well as history signs like Quran corrects bibIe Josef spoke to a king, not firaun and rosetta agrees, many signs of the Iast day coming to fruition.
Roam beat lran as Quran predicted.
Umar would beat Both in hadith.
PIague of Amwas.
In Recent times competition of building tallest building by Arabs, this happenned suddenly due to oiI.
Hadith said Arabia would green again, key word again as oil shows it was green before and it's greening now, a duaI sign.
Keep replies on topic.
@@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9 you don’t dictate this comment section and also you keep leaving the exact same comment 💆🏽♀️
Bart Ehrman laughs all the time like someone's tickling him lol
😂
The Bible tickles him silly
he laughs at the absurdity of the bible and the quran
He fears for his life with every word.
@MuftiMasala - He is a happy, easy-going person. ^_^
Derek - can you get a critical historical scholar of Buddhist scripture on? What can we know about the historical Buddha? What teachings really go back to such a figure, and what are later interpolations? Within the modern school of Secular Buddhism, of which I am a part, it is generally argued that within the Pali Canon, the more mundane suttas/chapters are the earliest and most likely to derive from the real teachings of the historical Buddha, and that the suttas with heavier “supernatural” elements are later additions put in after the death of the Buddha as he was increasingly deified. But I’m not sure if this analysis is legit critical scholarship, or ideological argumentation. Hearing from legit scholars in the field would be great. Love your work - thanks man 🙏🏻
Great suggestion! 👍
I think that's because Buddhism doesn't have a holy book that's why it is more appealing to people. Buddhism is a philosophy. However it doesn't take anything away from the fact that Buddha is possibly a myth.
I think another group who watches channels like Bart’s are non believers who simply love scholarship and exploring where the ideas that shaped and influenced human thinking and culture came from. It’s why I also like channels like Esoterica and am engrossed with the many books by Plato out there now being read by professional readers and actors. The internet may have its problems, but it definitely has its benefits as well.
I have a hard time getting Into esoterica. I know he has great topics but I can never get past the first 10 minutes of his videos without getting bored 😴
@@MuktiArno Another great channel is Centre Place, I just ran across. Right now I’m watching a series on the Canaanite religion and it’s impact on Yahweh
Damn, I didn’t realize Mythvision has nearly a quarter million followers. What a voice!
Over a quarter million.
lambo life
@@miltonbates6425not quite. He has to get to 250K for that, which means he needs 20K more.
What’s so incredible remarkable, is that he just hit 100K last year!
@@CharlesPayet He was at 250k this morning. Very odd.
TH-cam stats are weird. You can have a vid that is showing hundreds of thousands of views, and then an hour later it will show thousands less
When I was 4 years old and heard about a talking snake I knew it was a scam. Unless it told Eve not to eat the cheese cake 🍰. But I just heard the cheese cake part recently from a comedian. I'll find his name 😁 and give him credit sometime. Richard Black?
Look, it was a special snake.
Bless your heart
Lol
Not difficult for a God that can create from nothing
What is your epistemic standard to know that talking snakes can't exist? How could you _know_ a snake couldn't talk? You take this as a belief, not knowledge. You put your faith in the science of man, while I put my faith in the word of God.
I'm kidding of course. 😉
We Are MythVision!
We are farmers!
Yet atheism built O civilizations shows man needed God to send objective Iaws and signs to help recognize, & Islam is the preserved finaI faith predicted in major scriptures like bibIe and vedas. Humanity in whole proves Islam true, so we se Allah is Merciful, Just & All Wise. We learn more in Quran. This is just the past. As well as history signs like Quran corrects bibIe Josef spoke to a king, not firaun and rosetta agrees, many signs of the Iast day coming to fruition.
Roam beat lran as Quran predicted.
Umar would beat Both in hadith.
PIague of Amwas.
In Recent times competition of building tallest building by Arabs, this happenned suddenly due to oiI.
Hadith said Arabia would green again, key word again as oil shows it was green before and it's greening now, a duaI sign.
Reply to points, not personal posts.
@@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9 again you don’t dictate this comment section…And you have left the exact same comment on a different post so maybe you should try to stay on topic and stop telling people what to do thank you have a good day
@@pragmaticcrystal
I dictating to you before, you have the myths & I have evidence, so maybe you should listen to me, unless you know I'm right but don't want to expose it.
Would a all knowing and powerful Creator leave so much up in the air for interpretation? It all appears very man-made to me.
Sometimes I think why would God make us guilt trip like this man??😢 Having to justify each and every day about the morality of God and doubt ourselves. Does God really punish us for using our common sense?
@@CristianoRonaldo-li9guWhat I believe is religion is a man made construct to train / control the masses via a 3rd party (God).
If something really bad happens then the masses can't blame the Priests / leaders who didn't see it coming while still maintaining their power.
Man Gods and priest tended to die at the hands of their populations before that invention if such an event happened. It's pretty clever actually but deception none the less.
For what ever reason truth doesn't work on 1/2 the population, they prefer feel good fiction instead. It's who we are as evolving primates. ✌️
It's man made for sure. But it's a complicated man made series of stories of which parts are true. Yet some parts are obscure. It's fun discovering it all
@@MuktiArno I love islam man. Can't leave it. Also Christianity makes sense as well except the trinity and original sin nonsense. If jesus was just a messenger I could accept Christianity. If it's all man made why do billions believe it tho??
Well in the Quran God says if you don’t believe that the verses in the Quran are from us than gather all of the humans and produce a verse like that of the Quran and you will never be able to do it than fear the hell fire Quran 2 verse 23
The quality of your contents is unique and unmatched. 🎉 Chapeau.
What an incredible job by such an intelligent young man. You deserve each one of the subscribers that you have. Congratulations! I find myself trying to save all your podcasts.
As an ex Muslim, im really glad that the issues of the Qur'an are becoming more mainstream
The claims made for Islam in comparison with the reality are completely different
Ex Muslim? That's a tragedy! Feel sorry for u. May Allah guide u.
@@afzalshahid3884 may Allah misguide you habibi 🤲
@@afzalshahid3884he's the smart one.
@@thenun1846
May - who understood the Heart / the Core of Qur’aan (Allaah’s creation / evolution) without a miss - YOU guide yourself into the ones who inherit everlasting this very earth!
@@afzalshahid3884
Why are you feeling sorry for someone who knowingly with pride declared his own enmity to himself as if he were the owner of his own body?!
Hashmi says the mulsim apologists/polemicists "kinda exaggerated the claims about the koran"
Hashmi, they did not exaggerate, *they lied.*
Well said
Well put
Well fed
Muslims who sincerely follow the teachings of the Quran don't lie. Lying is a sin unless it's a matter of life and death or it's to fool an enemy in war. However official treaty or covenant must be uphold unless the other party breaks it.
@@mohamadromzee7394 it's always war
Wait if Javad believes the Quran contains legends and myths that’s fine but he’s literally not a Muslim anymore 😂. Just be a secular liberal “spiritualist” bro it will make life easier for you 🤷🏾♂️. I will definitely check the course that Bart and Javad are doing
I was about to ask, does he believe in the Quran...???? And then to say that the bible doesn't have problems?? Forget about what Christians says about the bible what about what the Quran say about the previous revelations????
@@Kassalawy56789 he confuses me a lot he says certain verses are borrowed from other scriptures, the Quran doesn’t really understand the trinity but at the same it does, like what? And he believes there are certain legends and myths in the Quran. I will have to watch his course with Bart Ehrman but Javad’s “scholarly expertise” is really overhyped, plus he hasn’t published anything yet. I even doubt he can quote the Quran in Arabic fluently and SUPER highly doubt he can access the hadith and scholarly traditions in Arabic only 🤷🏾♂️
Ooooh I like the new name tag!
Why would you bring a third rate scholar like Javad, who’s not even respected among Muslim academics and scholars to speak about Islam? Is Bart Ehrman regarded the same by Christians? Nope. He’s well respected for his criticisms whereas Javad is known for his dishonesty. Use common sense!
It’s ok to be open minded, research and investigate. God gave you intelligence, use it.
@@Natalie-fj7fs hence my comment.
As a former Mormon Barts's channel was instrumental to me as I deconstructed the fiction of Mormonism and Christianity.
@PinkDevilFish - I am a happy Former Mormon, too. Though before I heard of Dr Ehrman. He probably would have been very helpful to me. As it was, I had to go it alone. But I made it. When I finally admitted atheism to my brother, he told me he had adopted atheism, too. We danced!
@@MossyMozart congrats! I love hearing when others were able to get out.
You may find Dan McClelland channel useful also
I'm happy to hear that you were able to get out of the Mormon Church. I always felt weird about that Church even as a child. To be honest Joseph Smith was a traveling salesman and a lot of people bought into his product. Joseph Smith failed the test of the prophet. He prophesied that he would build the Mormon Church in Missouri, within a year of announcing that prophecy the Mormons were ran out of Missouri, his prophecy never came to pass, this should have been a tell tale sign to all who were following him, if they truly believed in the Bible.
@@Rbee2469
Abu Zachariah criticized mormons very well too.
Islam and christianity can't stand the scrutiny of modern scholarship and historical analysis.
Amazing and important!
Good luck!!
It is easy to write a profecy into a story, because you know the outcome. The Bible is the greatest story ever told. The Quran is the greatest song ever written. They are not lists of historical dates.
Gracias Derek, excellent job. Keep up the good work. Bendiciones 🎉
Very brave.
Why does Derek have a picture of Kevin de Bruyne on his t-shirt?
Dr. Ehrman makes a very good point related to plagiarism. Modern scholars specifically do NOT parrot everything that everyone else says, exactly because by doing so they open themselves up to huge lawsuits. Ancient scholars had different parameters, though I suspect a lot of them chose to explore things with their own twist in order to prove that they were actually putting their own thoughts into the material, without trying to invalidate anyone else's unique perspective. Of course this might cause some confusion, as it can even today, but since it's a consideration now why should it not have been a consideration thousands of years ago?
Methodist here - loving your work.
what these guys are missing is that India is the source of all these legends
This is good. Let’s have people be able to come together. In honesty without dogma. Within the abrahamic faiths.
When money is involved, there will be little sincerity.
That's what Qur'an says "come to the common terms "
Yet atheism built O civilizations shows man needed God to send objective Iaws and signs to help recognize, & Islam is the preserved finaI faith predicted in major scriptures like bibIe and vedas. Humanity in whole proves Islam true, so we se Allah is Merciful, Just & All Wise. We learn more in Quran. This is just the past. As well as history signs like Quran corrects bibIe Josef spoke to a king, not firaun and rosetta agrees, many signs of the Iast day coming to fruition.
Roam beat lran as Quran predicted.
Umar would beat Both in hadith.
PIague of Amwas.
In Recent times competition of building tallest building by Arabs, this happenned suddenly due to oiI.
Hadith said Arabia would green again, key word again as oil shows it was green before and it's greening now, a duaI sign.
@@afzalshahid3884
That is starting point. Then teach truth of Islam as others contradict.
Quran 4.82.
@@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9 I agree brother. I am doing my best to preach Islam by giving out the Quran, thru my writings. One of my 1st book is under the way of publication. Plus, people should watch or listen to learned people such as the host of One Message Foundation.
Second I congratulate all the atheists that they are HALF or partial Muslims by saying "There are no gods" which is the 1st portion of the Islamic testimony, all they need to know that Allah is only to be worshiped, who is the creator of all.
THE PROBLEM IS NOT WITH BIBLE OR QURAN, THE PROBLEM IS WITH HISTORY... HISTORY DEALS ONLY WITH SUPPOSEDLY FACTS...THOUGH IT FAILS AT THIS MANY TIMES... BUT BIBLE AND QURAN MAINLY DEAL WITH FANTASY.. FANTASIES... IN THE GUISE OF BEING HISTORY....
I remember early in my deconstruction journey I found myself in a college course about Islam and found the theological arguments against Christianity compelling. So, while I’ll probably never be a Christian again nor would I convert to Islam (because it has gotten its own set of problems), I do respect the religion a lot.
If you hear the like of this javid, no wonder.... Thanks God for Islam
@@Kassalawy56789were you born into a Muslim family?
Surely Surah 33, Verse 36 would prohibit any Muslim from taking a historical approach to Islam?
It has finally come to the forefront. Scholars have stopped being terrified by Islam.
Don't you guys know Islam doesn't handle critique very well?
Fundie Christianity is a rebellion against the historical critical method. So I don’t think it is unique to Islam.
@@matthewkopp2391 True, but Islam is like that multiplied 100 fold. It's not just far more widespread among laymen and elites, but their reaction is often vicious, not just silencing people by threats but often actually killing them if they go too far. There hasnt been anything like that for Christianity, with perhaps a handful of exceptions, since what, the 17th or 18th century? And in Judaism perhaps for 2000 years (assuming the sanhedrin ever did that at all, i'm no expert)
@@nonomnismoriar9051 Emir Kahane disagrees ...
@@isaamer194 Meir Kahane? I didnt say there werent Jewish terrorists or extremists I was talking specifically about reactions to criticism. As far as I know he didnt threaten or kill any scholars who studied Judaism or whp were digging ruins in the land who disagreed with vital claims for his particular interpretation of zionism ("Joshua our ancestor conquered the land more than 3000 years ago... David was a great king who ruled a large empire" etc... And he had plenty of opportunity to do so.
@@nonomnismoriar9051
Iearn who Ernst Zundel is
Or allow me to intro me.
This course is a long time overdue. If you really want to stop the spread of a Abrahamic oppression, please make this material available for free.
The people who need this information the most aren't going to pay.
I know that you would still have support.
Make the material into a book and sell that, but put videos on it out, in Arabic and English.
Thanks for reading this.
I've concluded that Quran does not accept Jesus as prophet Esa. For example following verse clearly states
قَالَ إِنِّي عَبْدُ اللَّهِ آتَانِيَ الْكِتَابَ وَجَعَلَنِي نَبِيًّا
He said, 'Lo, I am God's servant; God has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet.
19-Maryam : 30
Jesus never claimed to be a prophet nor he claimed to receive any book from God.
Moreover, old testament is not Torah. It never existed earlier than 350 BCE.
John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent
Lmao by that verse Jesus is a prophet and received a book 🤦🏾♂️😂. I swear I don't know if you are trolling or not
Both of them are the living proof of verses 11 & 12 of Surrat AlBaqarah وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لَا تُفْسِدُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ قَالُوا إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ (11) أَلَا إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ الْمُفْسِدُونَ وَلَٰكِن لَّا يَشْعُرُونَ (12) and verses 103 and 104 of Surrat AlKahf قُلْ هَلْ نُنَبِّئُكُم بِالْأَخْسَرِينَ أَعْمَالًا (103) الَّذِينَ ضَلَّ سَعْيُهُمْ فِي الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَهُمْ يَحْسَبُونَ أَنَّهُمْ يُحْسِنُونَ صُنْعًا (104) The original Arabic text is included for one of them to translate it to the other
We need more sceptics and people that refute religion. There are so many harmful things in religion. Without religion, life becomes so much more valuable. Less suicide bombers that love death more than life.
The following verse is often quoted with the remarks that there's nothing contradictory in Quran. But this verse is actually accepting that Quran has, not a lot of but, some contradictions in it.
أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ ۚ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِنْدِ غَيْرِ اللَّهِ لَوَجَدُوا فِيهِ اخْتِلَافًا كَثِيرًا
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction.
4-An-Nisa : 82
It is disingenuous from Bart to compare myths about George Washington and Jesus. Jesus's myths would be better compared with unicorn myths as both, unlike George Washington, have never existed.
The title seems to be misleading.
I've enjoyed listening to this channel. I am a Christian, but perhaps a more "nuanced" one. I think Derek's content is quite valuable. Discarding an overly simplistic worldview is paramount for personal growth. I've come to adopt a more esoteric view of things synthesized with aspects of Christianity. Putting too much emphasis on authority whether it be a historical book, ecclesiastical body, or some supposed "tradition" leads to more harm than good. People's worldviews are often shattered because of this over reliance.
This is the issue with the Quran. there were no non-Jewish prophets appointed by the God of Abraham.
For Muhammed to claim to be an Old Testament prophet is nonsense!
Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to
FINISH TRANSGRESSION,
TO PUT AN END TO SIN,
TO ATONE FOR WICKEDNESS,
TO BRING IN EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS,
TO SEAL UP VISION AND PROPHECY
and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
The prophet Daniel chapter 9: 24-27
"In times gone by God spoke to our father through the prophets, but these days He has spoken to us by His Son," Hebrews chapter 1:1-4
All people are focusing on material things. No one talks about if we follow the teachings of bible or Quran. Moreover What's good or wrong with translations or understanding of Quran.
Repeated topics with repeated approach
Great show Derek and great initiative. I've suggested to you before that you interview a muslim Quranist because they have been shocking the muslim world constantly with their critical approach to the traditionalist legacy that muslims have inherited over the ages and have not dared to question.
But quranists are not a new phenomenon. Their position has been represented in many groups and individuals over the ages such as Ibn Rushd and Ibn Sina among others and groups such as the Mu'tazila. And they always ended up being called heretics and metaphorically crucified only to have their message revived by curious minds in later generstions and then accepted by the majority as being true.
That in short is the parable of Jesus the Teacher, and applies to all thinkers who come up with new ideas to challenge the prevailing narrative. Like Socrates, Copernicus, Galelio, etc. Similarly Moses is the Researcher who seeks wisdom by realising that path is a fine balance between knowledge and experience, hence the parting of the metaphoric sea of wisdom.
Most muslim normies don't realise that the Quran is an ancient scripture that is still preserved in archaic Arabic runes (not modern Arabic language) and that it expresses ideas, processes and natural laws by means of PARABLES. It literally says "We narrate to you the best of parables by means of which we reveal to you this Quran..." (12:3).
In this sense, none of the prophets mentioned in these parables are real historic figures, not Mohamed, not Jesus and not Moses. These parables convey intellectual ARCHETYPES that apply to individuals as well as human society as a whole. So they are RECURRING archetypes that show up in every single generation.
Great show!
Keep going.
A Muslim heretic.
Its complete generosity on the part of Ehrman to share forum with an unknown wanna-be scholar Hashmi.
brilliant need to be done
So far i have not heard anything criticism of the Quran other than a sales pitch.
Jafed was exposed as very dishonest in his debates going after his opponents kids.
If you need some hard stuff about the origin of the quran read Lüling: A Challenge to Islam for Reformation.
The idea of an omnipotent God/Allah passing on essential information using a book is just plain stupid.
He could have simply downloaded all the information directly into our brains..
We were given ability to recognize truth. Atheism buiIt O civilizations and truth buiIds. Gr0w up.
@@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9 "We were given ability to recognize truth" To recognize truthes like that rivers flow downstream, that razor sharp teeth can rip flesh from you or that Earth is an oblate spheroid revolving around the sun got selected to surive. That invisible, immortal brain organ lacking thinkers called deities such as "Allah" shall exist is not part of any truth - it is an invention so that people can have the vague hope that their life is not mortal and finite, while it is.
Lmao typical edge lord internet atheist argument 😂. I thought we were done with 15 year old edge lord atheist arguments 😂
@@MohamedShou Declaring an argument without addressing it "edgelordi" or any other slurterm is not making the argument disappear. You seem to be just emotionally annoyed that a more logical world where a deity is an actual competent info giver is not in accordance with the actual reality we experience. So you have the idea that the world must be as it is but it must also contain Allah by default/dogma and you just dismiss the argument with an insult try, so the valid argument a person brings up that takes the info efficiency into focus of discussion shall be dismissed in your opinion, because you might have the wrong feelings that the world just must be as it is with alllah it just must be must be must be in pure desperation cries.
This type of acting is not going to work as the valid argument does not just magically disappear by being desperate behind a facade of arrogance or any fake emoticons. ;-)
It is even double funny as Islam basically teaches that humans must have corrupted previous revelation texts like the indschil/injil book or the texts of the jewish people to set the true revelation "straight again" with the final Qur'an, while it also collapses yet again as there are in fact different Qur'an versions Muslims usually deny while they are in museums. Even when they also invented stories that some Qur'an verses like the stoning verse have been eaten by a goat as admitted info corruption once more is just nodded as well in those telltales.
@@911amossadvanbomberplotaip9 Lots of civilizations were built by worshipping many gods (indeed, much older civilizations than either Christendom or Islam - if we want to classify those as neatly labeled civilizations), like ancient Egypt and China. and even systematically sacrificing your own children like Carthage, Meso-American cultures, etc so what's your argument there?
Great talk
Thank you.
Daniel already destroyed that javas dude
no he didn't, he ran away from him all the debate
Don't compare the quran and Bible, Chalk and cheese.
Bart do research on mathematical information given in the quran.
As far as I know, Atheism and Theism are Speculative Philosophy , and Natural Philosophy and Science (Psychology ....History of Compared Religions) are Critic Philosophy.
What about the literature and language of 3rd century Greeks ?
Congratulations to Javad Hamshi on finding a path to acquire an income from going beyond his faith traditions and the Sunnah of the Prophet. I hope it garners all the fame and mammon, in this life, that he is striving so hard for. Keep looking for the liberal's truth.
*Truth Stands Out Clear From Falsehood*
In full disclosure, Dr. Hashmi needs to make clear the distinction between the Quran (oral recitation) and a 'Mushaf' (i.e. physical book). Again, let's hope he does so. Thanks
The oral tradition is stronger than the use of the mushaf. The mushaf is just an additional tool for the preservation of the Quran. Even if you know modern Arabic you will not be able to recite it correctly without oral teaching of a teacher. We don't really know how an englishmen in the 10th century speaks unless there is an audio recording which we know does not exist.
@@mohamadromzee7394 we do know that actually.
@@mohamadromzee7394orientalists don't give any credence to oral history.
@@HardHardMaster Do we? From the writings and documents right?
Einstein was bad at math,
Washington chopped down a cherry tree,
Aliens crashed in the southwest in 1947 and their ship was reverse engineered in area 51,
And thats how we got fiber optic cables and microchips and tr-3b unmanned dirigibles🖤♠️🖤♠️🖤♠️
Watch Javad get disowned and disrespected by Muslims
Je suis Charlie Hebdo!
Is that the guy who questioned w vv 2?
Is that allowed now?
You are comparing Apples and Oranges. The Bible is a written book transmitted exclusively on Hard copy ( manuscripts) while the Quran is a recited book transmitted by mass oral transmission with unbroken chain of narrators ( the manuscript are there to help).
Hence if you transpose the critical approach you apply to the Bible to apply it to the Quran, you will come up with conclusions that does not explain the available Data. The Quran is recited in the same manner all over the World according to each KIRAA (i.e Mode of Recitation).
A Muslim in Malaysia who memorized the Quran according to WARSH recitation will recite the Quran in the same way, WORD for WORD and VOWEL for VOWEL, as a Muslim from Morocco. and the same thing could be said for other KIRAAT.
In consequence, the conclusions Jawad is presenting fells too much short in explaining the available DATA, hence void and null.
You get an award for mostly avoiding insults, and for avoiding character assassinations and threats. Congratulations, you already belong to a minority (sadly) of Muslims when it comes to reactions to things they find threatening.
Congrats for avoiding engaging with my arguments. Instead you go to adhominem attacks.
Muslim are not afraid of discussing the transmission of the Quran.
What is your take on my arguments???
@@AbouAdam-k2j I dont want to I dont know enough about that so I just grant the Qurans preservation for the sake of argument. The issue however is so much more important than that, its to be able to discuss this or any other topic without insults, innuendo or threats. And looking at most of your fellow Muslims in the comments here I was genuinely congratulating your comment for being civilized.
@@nonomnismoriar9051 I apologize for misunderstanding your comment.
The reaction of fellow Muslims is a natural response when they feel their beliefs are threatened. However, such reactions often stem from a lack of understanding of the subject. I encourage my brothers and sisters to deepen their knowledge of our religion and refrain from engaging in topics they may not fully comprehend, as this can be detrimental both to themselves and to the image of Islam.
I kindly invite you to read the Quran and form your own opinion on it. I would be happy to provide you with an English translation of the Quran if you're interested.
@@AbouAdam-k2janother Moslems who cannot handle truth, most part of world recite same Qur'an because current Qur'an was cannoinsed in 1924 in Cairo Egypt, before that there were fights among moslems because of different recitation, coz of multiple Qur'an found throughout the world, Qur'an was never "perfectly preserved" as Moslems brags about, after finalisation of current Qur'an it was given printed in Saudi at time of king fahd and was distributed to all the pilgrims comming to Mecca, still there are more then 30 versions of Quran which are found with which doesn't even matches each other
So he is going to dismantle the Quran in this corse huh ? I would be surprised if he speaks Arabic because they all say the same things and it’s going to be embarrassing for him(from a knowledgeable person in Arabic and Quran).
Why do you all seem so fragile? Do you have any idea how that looks from someone on the outside? It sounds like "I will character-assassinate (not to mention approve of/justify/ignore his actual assassination if he goes too far) this guy to no end because I am SOOO convinced of the traditonal narrative and apparatus my scholars who have had a vested interested in this from the beginning have told me". If you want to stick to your traditionalist guns, that's fine, but just say "I disagree with Dr Hashmi's approach and conclusions and if necessary say reason X Y Z". This is not normal behavior for anyone. This is some of the most extreme cult behavior out there, and 99,9% of Muslims do it, from the most fanatical Salafis to Sufi dancers, if confronted with this situation.
Without being an adhominem attack against Jawad, in a debate with Daniel haqiatju, he was asked by daniel to recite a short chapter of the Quran and Jawad refused to do so. This denounces an issue with his arabic. To be able to practrice Textual criticism or study from a historical point of view of the Quran, it requires to have an advanced knowledge of Arabic.
@@AbouAdam-k2j agreed, as any other scholars of religion. In example, in Christianity and Judaism scholars should have that amount of knowledge in Hebrew and the old greek language to understand the biblical texts. Honestly it was my first time to see this Jawad and nothing new.
@@AbouAdam-k2j Read G. Lüling "A Challenge to Islam for Reformation" for christian source material for early meccan surahs.
@@AbouAdam-k2jI have hardly seen Javad recite the Quran, the hadiths or any classical Islamic scholarly traditions in Arabic. In traditional Islamic scholarship YOU BETTER know the Arabic language AMAZINGLY WELL to be at least considered a "student of knowledge" not even Scholar yet haha. So I highly doubt Javad knows Arabic fluently let alone reciting the Quran correctly
CHRIST,ABHRAHAM,MOSES,BUDDHA,MAHAVIR,ZOORASTER,LAO ARE ALL PROVED AS LEGENDS AND MYTHS WHICH THE BLIND BELIVERS DO NOT WANT TO AGREE
Buddha existed ,mahaveera existed , Jesus existed ,zoroaster is doubtful ,muhammad has existed but Moses himself is very highly legendary , Abraham obviously legendary completely etc. but as u said everything about them and their later interpretations is legendary
nice
What about the magic man called mini me ? Or the other god called the wrath of khan ? Or gay jesu esu , the charlatan ? What about charlamagne tha god ?
What about prophet stallion of the cimmarron ?
What about them. Please talk
Fakers can only bark if truth is unknown in darkness, imagine what will happen to them once the light comes out.
5:50 Muslims and Mormons and ... um another group starting with "M"
Who
@@Randomuuzv Probably mythicists
Moravians? Mennonites? Mongolian shamanism? Manx paganism? Magic?
Minions
Methodist?
The original language of New Testament was Greek while Jesus was speaking Aramaic.
Muslims love to reference Barts excellent work until the point where he talks about the fallacy of eternal torture and hellfire. A clear New Testament corruption which found it's way into the Quran in a huge way.
virgin birth is a perfect example too.
@@nonomnismoriar9051
Oregen said Abbysinian xtns follow virgin birth. Its similar to Adam & Eve.
I am confidant i saw 0ld testament verses on heI.
Also Quran corrects not copies bibIe. Josef spoke to a king, not a firaun like bible says and rosetta Iost for tjousands of years agrees with Quran.
@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543 I found only one very ambiguous verse in the Old Testament that mentioned corpses with maggots and an unquenchable inner fire. Something that could be interpreted so many different ways. No mention of Subterranean torture Chambers or lakes of fire. Those come from very questionable New Testament bible books such as Revelations. These corruptions found their way into the Quran to serve the same purpose by terrifying people into conversion.
@@DHOP-tm2ch
You didn't reply to point verified by history.
Quran fixes bibIe not copies as Quran says Josef spoke to a King not firaun like bibIe says and Rosetta confirms.
*Truth Stands Out Clear From Falsehood*
In full disclosure, Dr. Hashmi needs to make clear the distinction between the Quran (oral recitation) and a 'Mushaf' (i.e. physical book).
Why
Bart Ehrman's name is pronounced 'Erman' not 'Airman'
In what language
8:07
Our dear doctor, you should learn Arabic. The Quran states to follow the books and also mentions that the books are corrupted. Both of these, you have chosen without attempting to reconcile between the texts. Which books does the Quran talk about and why does it oppose them so openly? Either you claim that the Quran contradicts itself in its presentation of Jews and Christians, or you simply did not understand the Quran's intended meaning at all.
Finding fault with the Qur'an (a supremely easy task for anyone who has actually read it) can put you on the slippery slope of recognising the ridiculousness of similar supernatural happenings in your own religion. Irremediable atheism lurks!
The problems start with why those books are important, and what has happened to the story, "Telephone"d out of comprehension, sequence, and significance. Why do we keep it, several millennia after the events it describes? We know it contains the "mysteries" men have wondered about for those same millennia, without divining the answers. The stories we treasure are "survivor" stories, now bowdlerized and emasculated for modern audiences, but still describing events we know were titanic. Just not God doing the damage, however much they try to sell it.
I guarentee you have never read the Quran.
@@redx11x Or, you don't know as much as you think. It is the definition of arrogance to assume things about someone you never met, have had no interaction with, and cannot know anything about. I do not claim to be any kind of religious expert, but the stories are not about "God", they are about the events mankind endured, and survived. Stories about the events are told to children, but adults shy away, without understanding, or even considering, why.
I read the Koran first in 1965, when I was trying to teach myself Arabic, trying to associate the English translation with the written Arabic. I gave it up, in the end, because there were no such things as "language tapes". Arabic was too different from everything I knew to surmount not being able to hear the words. I went on to learn seven languages, though, from Spanish and Latin, to French, German, Italian, and VietNamese (English makes it seven)
I read enough, and, it doesn't matter, because many, if not most, of the same books used in the Old Testament of Christian Bibles, are found in the Koran, making the story they present far more significant than currently believed. It was this utility that attracted me, a set of stories common to three divergent "belief" systems. It's almost as if God is SMARTER than Man, and realized His creation was so wrong-headed, not everyone would accept the SAME set of guidelines.
The Koran was created last, of the great religions (their terms, not mine), almost 1,500 years AFTER the last of the sequence of events outlined in the Jewish Bible, the Tanakh, and used in Christian Bibles as the Old Testament, and in the Koran. That is history, agreed upon by almost everybody, but no one has "heard" from, or seen, God, in the three millennia since the last example cited in those "Bible stories", probably II Isaiah, although not identified as such.
When stripped of religiosity, they tell a dramatic story, one we are intimately familiar with, because these wildly unbelievable events were also the basis for ALL mythology, legendary feats, and whispered lore passed down by initiates who passed on important information to groups of survivors. The stories are survivor tales, deserving of respect and admiration, for their rigors.
That's the truth you won't find in any of those books, because religion, regardless of what name you call God, is Big Business. Where else can the uneducated get a job with no experience, simply by "interpreting" the Word of God. Where else can someone be an "expert" in what an "invisible friend" says, or means by saying, without having any contact with that being?
God said to tell you that, by the way. I don't think He's very impressed with any humans, regardless of how, or when, they claim to "worship" Him. More ugliness, killing, and destruction has been done "in the name of God", than all other reasons! It's hard to imagine any God being happy with the state of the world, and Muslims are as guilty of that as anyone. Christians have a long history of evil, on their own, and, truly, as it says, "Man is born of sin", we cannot escape it, except by hard effort and constant reminding.
At any rate, SOMETHING happened, mostly in the 2nd Millennium BC, that CONVINCED humans an "extraterrestrial" being had it in for human beings. ALL "modern" religions got their start in the 12th Century BC, when Zoroaster (Zarathrustra) started his religion, and the Jews became monotheistic, leading, inevitably, to Christians and Muslims. Akhenaten probably lived in that time, too, out-of-place by Egyptologists, who've done worse. Our common ancient past is a chaotic mess, mostly due to the inabilities and misunderstandings of the earliest investigators, a problem that has only intensified over the centuries since those naive diggers first turned a spade.
@@TheAnarchitek as i stated, i guarentee you have never read the Quran.
@@redx11x Got any money to lose?
@@TheAnarchitek not much, I'm in a very tight situation right now.
So Bart, you were so exposed to the truth, but you rejected it. You are truly fallen.
I watched alot of Javads content while I was into my more “quranist phase” (rejecting certain Hadith which make Islam look awful). I feel he also is slightly quranist and will reject certain hadiths, etc. this was all before I left the faith completely. So I do wonder how Javad can give a truly critical view of the Quran’s history while at the same time believing it comes from a God he believes in… I can already see in this interview he keeps kinda covering his own belief. It’s exhausting listening to these Quranist style Muslims because everything is “mistranslated” “misunderstood” etc while their only agenda is to prove Islam to be true, and defend it against criticism. Javad probably wants to come up with his own version of Islam. The Quran centric route.
Well put. Excellent insight. And that's just the moderates. Islam doesn't allow criticism, even scholars have to be careful.
I was an agnostic until it hit me that God is real and I better start learning Islam. Being a scientist I verify everything. And reading just the Quran I am 200% convinced God is real, the prophet received the revelations and society is at a loss for not following the Quran. I would like to know what prompted you to leave Islam?
Hadiths are man made. And because of that, it should not be considered as a complete source of truth in understanding Islam.
@@0786AHA the concept of hell and eternal torture, 4.34, the self serving verses (such as Mohammad being allowed to marry whom he wanted and that any women could give herself to him), right hand possessions etc
@@Roxan926 The multiple marriages occuring in society was a accepted event in pre Islamic Arabia. And a widowed women at that time was having a hard time getting remarried and support. The prophet married widows to support them and provide an example to the community to take care of them. Prophet Solomon in the Bible had 600 wives.
@@Roxan926 doesn't Christianity have internal domination for crimes?
Very low-level arguments
The Quran has never been different
How did this guy get his PhD??
The Quran has been changed a lot
@@DrazenPerkovic-p8j never, it's God's last and final and only preserved scripture
Share your facts
@@lilanc4303 The Quran was changed many times, the 7 ahruf and qiraat show it.
@@DrazenPerkovic-p8jIt hasn't been changed, you're just spreading nonsense, yes we all know about Uthman, but that's not what you and other Islamophobes described, it hasn't been corrupted and changed like the Bible
@@gogurma7609 The Quran was changed many times and it can be shown when you compare two different Qurans like hafs and warsh.
Wow this is absolutely sensational! I was a Christian and always saw similarities between the Qur'an and the Bible having read both. Muslims would often actually agree whilst Christians wouldn't. However the myth of the resurrection is dismissed in the Qur'an but apparently their belief is that Jesus is still alive. How!? I absolutely don't know. Apparently he would raise Muhammad from the dead to judge the world. Surprisingly Christians simply say Jesus will. Paul of Tarsus is Saint Paul in the Bible. Christians see him as a prophet. Catholics always have an epistle. In Islam Paul is a sham. Interestingly the Qur'an has similar traits to apocryphal scripture which the church rejected. So in a nutshell if the Bible is a myth which it is then so is the Qur'an. In a couple of decades I hope we'll be talking about Christian and Islam mythology.
Javad Hashmi credentials are close to non, while Bart Eherman has a long successful academic carrier and the former is trying to benefit from the latter!
I think Bart is smarter than to choose someone unfit for the job…
@@muwahh1d1 it's hard to find Muslims that want to listen to or subscribe to criticism of the Quran.
@@muwahh1d1
As bart said i know nothing of the Quran, he may have no choice.
He want make a name for himself by debating Bart....!!!!
Cheap shot
It is almost as if books are a fruit from a tree with their own knowledge of good and evil, replacing GOD's communication..
So God is against knowledge and independent thinking. Got it.
Serpent used telepathy to talk to Eve I focused on a female friend ince and next day at work she said i appeared to her in her dream I was busted
The god of the abrahamic religions is an IMPOSSIBILITY. Don't believe the hype.
Historical truth can't be the measure because it is not stable information. Much of historical data changes with time or changes depending on who finances the research. I Advise learning arabic first... it will save you a lot of embarrasing nonsenses...
This is absolutely wonderful!!!🌹💯🔥
A story of a guy with a beard riding on the back of a flying horse should be a clear sign that people are making stuff up ;-)
The flying horse is a rather typical shamanic motive.
@@amuthi1 People will make up similar stuff, true....
There are more than that in your book....!!!
@@Kassalawy56789 I don't believe in the bible.
Both are fairy tales
Complete rubbish
They already discovered tezts in Birmingham library in England that went back 1340 years ago, which is exactly the same as today's Quran.
Very low-level arguments
This guy needs to go back to school
Narcissistic much? Name tat’s and face T Shirt.. I wish you luck and equilibrium.. Keep up the good work..
Dr Hashmi is single handedly saving islam from the sinking ship its on.
How's that
You might as well say the grass eater saved the grass.
Yet atheism built O civilizations shows man needed God to send objective Iaws and signs to help recognize, & Islam is the preserved finaI faith predicted in major scriptures like bibIe and vedas. Humanity in whole proves Islam true, so we se Allah is Merciful, Just & All Wise. We learn more in Quran. This is just the past. As well as history signs like Quran corrects bibIe Josef spoke to a king, not firaun and rosetta agrees, many signs of the Iast day coming to fruition.
Roam beat lran as Quran predicted.
Umar would beat Both in hadith.
PIague of Amwas.
In Recent times competition of building tallest building by Arabs, this happenned suddenly due to oiI.
Hadith said Arabia would green again, key word again as oil shows it was green before and it's greening now, a duaI sign.
I think more Methodists like your stuff than you think, Bart. Do you just not get along with Duke because you're at UNC?
Does one need another reason? GO HEELS! 😎😁
Bart and Judaism???
Libera tradução em português
Seguimos o Canal Antônio Miranda
And both are wrong in the same way.
This is David Wood's greatest nightmare
How so? From the Christian side, yeah, from the Muslim side, he'll probably use some of the critical material. Besides, he deals with traditionalist Islam, in at least quite a few vital points, very well. Not because he's a genius, but he's just dug up good arguments in some cases, this is undeniable. So you're saying that if more Muslims take a nuanced view on stuff like the credibility of Aisha's age ahadith and so on this will make DW's counterapologetics/polemics less successful? I mean yeah, but his main target is traditionalist Islam, and one could argue that the concessions on the unreliability of ahadith is already somewhat of a problem of its own for "critical" Islam/liberal Islam, whatever you want to call it. Certainly of a lesser magnitude than the problems traditionalist Islam is faced with, but still.
@@nonomnismoriar9051 DW main arguments against Islam are stuff like "legends in the Quran" and "variants of the Quran" "the Quran confirms but contradicts the bible" while ignoring that the Bible does contain legends, variants, interpolations (quran doesnt have) and that the bible itself contradicts itself ... like so what if the Quran contradicts it if the main "source" is already in contradiction ?
And just like he has a theological justification for them the Muslims also do.
For the Aisha thing DW himself admitted in the debate he had with Uthman ibn Farooq that it doesn't discredit the veracity of Islam, so he doesn't use it as an argument he is just trolling Muslims with.
Till this day the biblical prophecies are coming to pass look at the nation of Israel and the nations of Islam it tells it all. Keep rejecting the word of God the day will come when God will reject you.
@@angelgoindoo4518
Tel aveev represents rev 2.9 & 3.9, & they Iost the sanai. Only one rejecting God is you.
Dude, Ehrman is not pronounced airman. It's like ur-man.
Or, they both have _myths_
Myth at one time simply meant traditional stories, it later took on the meaning of “lie” or “untrue story” but that was relatively recent around 1840.
@@matthewkopp2391 Even the ancients could very well differentiate true stories from fantastical tales of fiction, however, even when the tales weren't presented as such, as is the case here.
Just read Lucian.
Neville Goddard still champ so at least your funny.
Ask any Chief and he will tell snakes don't talk..... Only man speaks with forked tongue...... Maybe that's why we of Red Nation don't write...... They speak as caretakers of Gods things..... Start by following your written commandments .....NOW MAN WRITES IN FORKED TONGUE..... MAYBE SOMEDAY YOU WILL ASK SOMEONE WHO ALWAYS FOLLOWED THE LIVING WORD STILL LIVING ONLY BY THE SPOKEN WORD FROM THE HEART OF THE PEOPLE......KID..... There is still so much to be said however till then A-ho.
Most people think even the Muslims themselves, that "Allah" of Islam, their God is also the God of Abraham.
The God of Abraham said He doesn't change His mind, Numbers 23:19, and He had declared in the past what He will do, Isaiah 46:9-11. God said through "the offspring" of Isaac and ------>Jacob/Israel, A JEW, will ALL NATIONS ON EARTH BE BLESSED, Genesis 26:4, 28:14, and NOT through Ishmael, Genesis 21:12.
Fast forward, when the identity of "the offspring", The Jew, became apparent, Jesus Christ, for though the Romans tried to stop Christianity for two hundred years by pers*cuting and kil*ng the early Christians, they were used instead to spread CHRISTianity faster and farther TO THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD. And "Allah" established Islam, overshadowed The Jew Jesus, and commanded instead for people to follow Muhammad, an Ishmaelite, "to be blessed", **CONTRARY** to what God said. Logically, one of this two idea could be true:
1, God is a boastful liar, claiming to know the future when He doesn't that He needed to change His mind.
2. "Allah" of Islam is not the God of Abraham. Who would have been there to have known God's instructions? Who deceived Adam and Eve to obey him rather than God?, Yes more likely "Allah" of Islam is the Serpent, who is doing to us what he did before, misleading people to not follow God's instructions.
The God of Abraham Himself made an "everlasting" covenant with Abraham that He will be the God of his descendants through Isaac, Genesis 17:7,19, reaffirmed that though Israel will sin He will never reject them, Jeremiah 31:35-37, and fulfilled His promise that His exiled people Israel will be returned to their homeland and never to be uprooted again, Amos 9:14-15. And "Allah" of Islam, instructs his Islamic worshippers to execute "his" judgement to Israel because of their sin, to k*ll the Jews.
Jacob was not a jew ... the name JEW was a much later invention...
@@isaamer194 The descendants of Jacob/Israel, were called Jews from their "religion" that was called Judaism, after the "people " who practiced them, generally more known as Judeans. Probably they started to be shortly called the "Juds". And most people today know that Jews are Israelites, descendants of Jacob/Israel.
Yea... Jews also agree that the God of Abraham is who Muslims worship. In fact Kaba is the legacy of prophet Abraham. He and his son built it. And Jewish sources claim that prophet Moses made a pilgrimage to Kaba. 💯☑️☑️☑️
@@0786AHA The succeeding generations after David seemed to have doubted that their God is the only true God, for they were manipulated and convinced to worship other gods which caused God to allow His people to be overcome by her enemies and be exiled from the land He gave them. And Jesus/Yeshua's name and His miracles must have already been known among the Arab nations that they cannot do away with Him. Not sure though if the idea that Jesus was not crucified was an intended lie, or the fact that many saw Him alive and ascended to heaven (the resurrected) seemed to contradict that He died. And it seemed some Jews themselves misinterpreted their Torah regarding Jesus who regarded Jesus as nothing more than just a blasphemer, but the Arabs regarded as a prophet. Which should have more weight then? God's word?, or the understanding of the Jews?
@@0786AHA Just a sudden thought, I wonder how can there be a "reliable" source of information for the Jews about the Kaaba being a legacy of Abraham, considering the Israelites who entered the "promised land" were in Egypt for 400 years, Genesis 15:13.
And I wanted to ask if you have any good critical position on the Quran to recommend? I mean one that on the one hand tries to understand the message, show the historical background and links to the realities of Muhammad's time, show the problems and difficulties, but which doesn't sell it in some anti-Islamic venom. Critical understanding, not hatred
You're contradicting yourself. Do You want to hear valid criticism or do you want to hear pro Islamic apologetics?
@@HardHardMaster I want to know, not sow resentment.
A good critical position on the Quran is that it was a mere vehicle for Muhammad's ambitions. Even Aisha alluded to this.
@@HardHardMasterand what was his ambitions? To reject the riches of this world and to give to the poor.
To look after the orphan and the destitute.
To free the slave and forgive his enemies.
What exactly was his Misson according to you
@@PKowalski2009take the Quran and get a copy of something called the Seerah. The Seerah is the life of vProphet Muhammed.
As the Quran was revealed throughout his life, it is reflected in the seerah
There are few out there just type up seerah. You can pick it up for free or listen to any youtube video.
Its detailed.
Javad Bro why are you on the channel of a supporter of Israel?
Proof?
6:30
Honestly, as a Muslim, I don't really care if someone converts to Islam. I'm just looking for the truth, you know? I follow Bart Ehrman as he criticizes the Bible, and I'm not saying it's completely distorted, but my book is the absolute truth. I'm just trying my best to understand more simply.
The Quran you have today was written by Uthman's scribes. It's not the absolute truth, it's just a book and nothing more.
@@DrazenPerkovic-p8j Thanks, man, for the strong addition, but what does your comment have to do with mine?