Trope Talk: Macguffins
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มี.ค. 2020
- Edit: DANG IT YES I MEANT THOR 2 EVERYONE LEAVE ME ALONE
Everybody wants 'em! Very few people get 'em! Sometimes, the things we call macguffins turn out not to be macguffins at all! But what IS the elusive macguffin, and how do we go about understanding, writing, OR acquiring it?
Got a favorite macguffin or macguffin-centric storyline? Drop it in the comments!
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thor 2 was so forgettable I forgot what number thor it was -R
Overly Sarcastic Productions a Writer hot take: “A True MacGuffin is Normally bad as everything in a story should contribute to increasing or decreasing conflict (whether its character, plot, setting)
Everything should have an unremovable impact otherwise it’s poor writing???”
Thoughts? I’m unsure. Though I do believe that good writing is able to bring any aspect of a story into character/plot/setting/any conflict & if you could switch x with y & it wouldn’t have made a difference to the story, that’s a weakness to the story & could have been improved ((making it irreplaceable also helps making everything more original, & if not original, at least rememberable & important))
The definition of MacGuffin “the character want it but the audience don’t care”-there should be nothing in the story that you know & keep in that you know/plan/think the audience won’t care about.
LMAO, I was wondering why your recordings of Ragnarok were showing deleted scenes... and *then* I read this comment and understood why haha
Can you do a trope talk about Rivals next?
Loved this. And now I know what that is
I lowkey feel dumb now😅
When you realize Helen was the MacGuffin of The Trojan War
Oh whatcha say~
Oh dam your right
I thought the exact same thing!
Ehhh, convenient excuse.
Oh my-
Fun fact, El Dorado is a real life Macguffin.
fun fact, it's also an insta kill Macguffin
@@eisenlazarus6915 How so?
It helped us get surprizingly good maps though.
@@giarnovanzeijl399 hmmmm, let's see. a small band of adventurers go into the deep Mesoamerican forests for weeks, even months, on end, with their supplies running out quicker than expected.
@@professorhistoire5349 thats no insta kill mcguffin, thats just failing to get the macguffin
Peter Parker: "I always just call it a Goober."
I've been looking for a comment like this.
got the goober
😄😄😄He said that?
"A Goofy Goober?"
_"I'll fuckin' do it again!"_
One Piece is a show about a Mcguffin being so hyped that the writer stalls for years to brainstorm a worthy use for it.
YESSSS
The Straw Hat Pirates have spent so long searching for The One Piece, sailing around, helping people, and generally being bros that I am convinced actually finding The One Piece wouldn’t be enough to change their lifestyle
Isnt the one piece gold? A big enough chunk to cause a surge in pirating activity to change the world? Are any of there goal to even get it? Even when silver beard asked if they wanted to know the straw hats said no except ussop.
@@monkeyboy12200 no? Its said to be "the biggest treasure in the world" and whoever manages to get it becomes king of the pirates. What it actually IS doesnt matter, just that whoever gets it is king (what Luffy wants to be to attain true freedom)
What I mean is that I don’t think it would be enough to make them stop sailing around and having adventures because they love it and each other too much
"There's always a bypass key, a virus key, a who-cares key, I can never remember so I just call it a goober."
gimme
That is a man who has dealt with a fair number of Macguffins.
Ahhh a man of culture I see
Spider-man the ultra mcguffin master
I UNDERSTOOD THAT REFERENCE!
Remember when Teen Titans Go had an episode with an item called "The Macguffin" and it was literally just Robin wanting a sandwich so he called it something else.
There was an episode of GI Joe where they actually called the device they had to retrieve "the Macguffin Device," and even joked about how none of them actually knew what the device did.
Ultimate Spiderman where there was supposedly a scientist named Profeasor Macguffin
Also an episode of Gumball where Richard goes to every Joyful Burger in Elmore to earn the secret burger, which is literally called the Mac'Guffin.
Edit: M'Guffin, sorry.
Teen titans also has the episode of them hunting a briefcase and you never see what's inside and it still haunts me to this day @_@
@@Heothbremel I believe that's the episode I'm referring to. The one where they dress up as ninja's is the one where Robin has them hunting for an item that is only revealed afterwards to be a sandwich.
“Chekov’s Shiny Wall Decoration” needs to become an actual trope
So a red herring where people assumed it was a chekov's gun?
That is an amazing idea.
Over the garden wall has an episode with what we call "chekhov's gorilla"
It took Humanity Eons to figure out
that Fmelae Humans arent meant to
be a Macguffin.
Is the trope named for Chekov from star trek?
Space Stone: Does spacy stuff
Time Stone: The actually good one
Mind Stone: Psychic stuff, I guess
Reality Stone: Literally who knows?
Power Stone: "Do you want to explode?"
Soul Stone: Has a 20% chance to instantly kill any woman who touches it
Also "The Snappening" is amazing
Tony Stark: *dies*
Dr. Strange: *doesn’t use the time stone to rewind time to heal him, even though that’s an established thing that the time stone can do*
@@brennanruiz1803 He's seen the outcome of all their fights. He must know that screwing with time AGAIN to save Tony will just lead to something worse later.
Reality stone: *bubbles, bubbles everywhere*
@@brennanruiz1803 he could have also used it to fix Hulk's arm.
There's also the continuity stone. Deadpool has it.
"Baby Yoda is a macguffin"
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave?
🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐙
Heresy! She speaks heresy!!!
Colabuss She speaks *The Truth
Fixed it for you
@@Arshva She's right, though. Cute as it might be, it is actively being hunted by the Imperial Remnant. Baby Yoda barely does much, and is very much a MacGuffin.
The crusades were a Macguffin quest
This just made me realize that the million dollar prize in a survivor season is a maguffin. The million dollars is not what the show is about, instead the show is about what people do to get the million
Not sure if a prize of a competition is a macguffin. Are olympic medals macguffins?
@@Popepaladin I dunno...is the olypmics a scripted "reality" event?
@@ZanathKariashi now that I think about it... yeah, they are. They don't DO anything except say "you did a difficult thing." The struggle and accomplishment of earning the medal is more important than the medal itself. The medal can be literally anything.
@@GavenRocker if you can switch the medal for a shiny coupon or plaque and it has all the same value or use, then that is indeed a macguffin.
That there are medals for racing or wrestling, literal struggles for supremacy and an end goal just makes them doubly so, when you take it all to its logical extremes.
@@GavenRocker No, not really. The whole "does nothing but say 'you did a difficult thing'" is a function and purpose, and I'm certain there are just as many people want them because they're symbols of their accomplishment, as there are people who want them because everyone else wants them too.
"The real Macguffin was the friends we made along the way"
pure poetry
It took Humanity Eons to figure out
that Fmelae Humans arent meant to be a Macguffin.
@@slevinchannel7589 depending on the community that changes, from what research I've done Jewish communities dont see one gender as better or worse but just equal yet different. And have you replied to bassicaly every comment with that
Meaning the friends we made along the way are boring and interchangeable with any other person in the world
@@thetwizard9290 well that is certainly true
EXCEPT FOR THE BORING PART
This will be one pieces ending.
There are plenty of rememberable quotes from Avatar like:
My first girlfriend turned into the moon.
That's rough buddy.
Secret Tunnel!
You just had to pick up the glowing egg…
Wait? What? Oh you mean quotes from the James Cameron blue people Avatar? Yeah, I got nothing.
Sneak attack!
@@yigitsezer6696 Sokka, sneak attacks don't work if you yell it out loud.
“This is papa dragon” and that’s about it for quotes
I got one : unobtainium. Just unobtainium 😏
@@shadowstriker6506
Aang: Still think we can take them?
Zuko: SHHH…I never said that!
"Chekhov's shiny wall decoration"
You win the Internet today.
Good example of that in in Kingdom Hearts 3, where they introduce concept of "the box" (gun) but then forget about it making whole subplot basically pointless (even if it is actually important subplot, just they make really bad cliffhanger with it).
Isnt that han solo frozen in carbonite...
@@TheRezro Kairi is a McGuffin.
@@LordOberic1 In first game, yes.
"Chekhov's weenie."
Red: "A McGuffin that kills you instantly when you touch it is still a McGuffin, just a pretty spicy one"
Me: "That settles it. I will start writing my story about the eternal quest for a mighty mortal jalapeño"
have you written the story because i want to read that
Probably can have so dungeon write it
AI dungeon
I would read that for the record
@@virtualtools_3021 Lame.
"When the story is simple the characters have a little more freedom to be complex"
Damn, that's such a good thing to remember.
You've changed, man.
There wasn't a single mention of Avatar: The Last Airbender in this Trope Talk.
@EJ Phoenix I suppose Aang could possibly be considered a macguffin to the Fire Nation, specifically Zuko. But that's a bit iffy.
@EJ Phoenix doesn't have to be to mention the show. When she mentioned avatar she could have clarified she wasn't talking about the animated series, or she was talking the blue monkeys not the windy boi.
Good, there are other TV shows in the world, we dont need to talk about just one all the time
@@itayeldad3317 yes, we do!
jk
EJ Phoenix BOY, YOU'RE BEING VERY STUPID. YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
DO THE WINDY THING.
MAKE IT BLOWY AND GUSTY.
Avatar - That movie that made nearly 3 billion dollars but no one can quote a single line from?
OOF
Yeah, but the sometimes lines or quotes from movies aren't the most important. Take for example Life of Pi, it's an amazing movie but I don't remember a cool quote from it, because its visuals take your attention
"Why would he ever look up?"
@@sandrosaladze8095 The only thing I remember about Avatar is someone on TH-cam referring to their Interface-ponytails as "Hair Pubes" :/
Also in there - There is barely any fanfic written about it. And some of them are just misplaced Avatar: the Last Airbender fics.
I didn't even remember what was that movie about, something about blue giants having sex in the forest with the very same thing they use to ride their animals. So... Gross
"A person can also be a macguffin if they have no agency." The entirety of Hunger Games franchise features the macguffin attempting to stop being a macguffin, despite everyone trying to keep the macguffin a macguffin. There are only two instances of the macguffin succeeding, which causes a lot of trouble for the people trying to keep the macguffin in line. Thank you for the new perspective, Red.
You're just being pedantic here; if you're actively driving the plot, you're not a Macguffin.
I actually agree with this. In the films at least, Katniss really doesn't do much to actually move the plot along. She is the one that just gets shuffled from one location/event to another being used as a symbol by both factions, one as a symbol of hope and one as a target to crush. She only survives either battle royale through sheer dumb luck.
@@Scubasniper525 this is only in the movies.
The books explains alot that the movie doesn't, like the concept of Tessera. Plus, the movies have a focus on the romance aspect where the books actually focus on the injustice and horrible reality that the capital imposed on the districts, especially the poorer ones. Which, if you think about the fact _Hollywood focused on the same thing The Capital did,_ is extremely disturbing.
-Hunger Games is -_-also-_- a satire of -*_-America,-_*- with The capital representing the 1%, but let's get into those disturbing parallels later.-
hm... i would not really say so... i mean, look at Cem or Jem or whatever they call it in english in the history novel of Vera Mutavchieva...
@@lavengale Katniss actually does some stuff to move the plot forward, although pretty late, in Mockingjay: She sneaks into the Capitol leading the squad she's in. After the squad is down every 13th District person they finally spill the beans that they followed her wilingly into death trap after death trap. Also, the book kinda makes some points of Katniss having agency on the plot besides the Capitol thing, like her deciding to cut off Gale completely after realizing that Snow is telling the truth and Gale killed Prim
My favorite use of a macguffin in fiction is in Interstellar Pig. The setup is that everyone believes that the universe will end, and whichever civilization/species is holding the macguffin will be the only one to survive. But when our main character gets it, it speaks to him and tells him that he has to get rid of it, because it'll actually *destroy* whatever species has it. While he's figuring out what to do, he notices that it has a couple of odd properties that don't fit either of its informed functions, and he eventually realizes that it's not powerful or dangerous at all. It's actually designed to collect and store information from as many sources as possible, and the lore around it is just a tool to get it passed through as many hands as possible.
I like the idea of a macguffin chase that turns into macguffin hot potato, trying to get somebody else to take it off your hands
Maguffins: The real maguffins were the friends we made along the way.
Friends are useless and interchangeable lol
@@129das well yes, but actually no
@@129das Especially if it's one of those lazy shonen anime where all the focus is the main character and all the friends they gain are useful at best in their introductory episode and are never useful again except for set dressing.
Spoiler Alert: that's probably the way One Piece is gonna end, but this is Oda "the new Dante" Eiichiro so keep you hopes up
@@129das And everybody wants them, but when they get one it instantly decides to murder them.
I think we all failed as a collective species when we didn't keep the term "weenies".
Short for "We Needs These"?
@@Mecharnie_Dobbs You both get a point.
the snicket fandom: ah yes *the sugar bowl*
This all day lol
We don't even find out what's in it. (except for in the show)
Ah, a man of culture i see
Snicket means Series of Unfortunate Events right?
@@ultramarinescaptain3840 Yes.
I actually quite love the unsatisfying macguffin endings, where they turn out worthless. Done right, the chase and conflict will escalate so far past the point of no return, and leave such destruction in its wake, that finding out the macguffin is fundamentally worthless turns our protagonists' attention to their own actions leading up to this point, recontextualized by the knowledge that they were fighting over nothing. They have to sober up and face the monstrosity they were capable of in the hunt for this macguffin. Essentially an organic One Ring, without the magical influence.
The Maltese Falcon is a very good example of this done right, IMO.
The thing is, the story itself explicitly says that's what it's doing. In-universe, not all the characters believe that the Maltese Falcon was ever real, or that if it was real, that it still exists. But because some moderately powerful people believe it is real and that they can get it, everybody has to shape their actions around that fact.
The way people react when they discover that this version of the Falcon is fake is interesting. The most obsessed character just continues their obsession, obviously being willing to do very bad things to chase what is very likely a dream. Others snap, finally coming face-to-face with all the crimes they committed for something that is probably imaginary, and certainly out of reach.
Nah, sorry but no
I really want a story where the MacGuffin everyone wants is a Mc. Muffin.
@tiffany cheng not anymore.
It escaped.
Again.
For like, the third time this month.
the EFAP podcast has more or less broken my brain enough that I genuinely forget the real word isn't mcmuffin
_Teen Titans Go!_ , “The Art of Ninjutsu”
Hey! site director! I might need to borrow your chainsaw canon. Some of the other doctors and d-bois are planning to raid site-19. I'm TOTALLY not part of the chaos. yep. They are over there, but first the canon!
Doctor Bright, I hope you don't use an SCP of any kind to make such a thing happen. Guess we need to add something else to that list of things you're not allowed to do.
Legend has it, the Straw Hats STILL haven't found the One Piece.
Zydrake Shogun The oneguffin treasure
They don't even know the strawhat itself might also be a MacGuffin.
Rick's Nugget sauce
I was looking for a mention of this, it's like the most Macguffiny Macguffin ever.
It's gonna stop being a mcguffin once we find out what it is
My favorite Macguffin use is in Kung-Fu Panda 1, the Dragon Scroll. For those of you who haven't seen it yet, spoiler warning! I highly recommend this film, it's seriously a great time.
The scroll is stated to hold the secret to incredible power, promising it to be in the "power up macguffin" sub-class. But when it's given to the main character just before the climax, it's revealed the scroll is a blank, reflective sheet of paper. The main cast feels dejected as the bad guy is almost there, and they opt instead to evacuate the valley while the mentor stays behind to occupy the big bad and keep him from killing anyone.
During the evacuation, the main character speaks with his adoptive father whom tells him in a very cleverly set up manner, that there is no object in the world that will just make you better. Something is only good because people believe it's good, and our hero realizes that was the point of the scroll. The rest of the climax is the main character applying a large number of tricks he's learned all throughout the story to beat the villain, and they're things generally only someone with his experiences could do.
"There is no secret ingredient. It's just you."
"I want this mission high and tight. I wanna be home for dinner." BOOM an Avatar quote that my family was wonderfully obsessed with for years. Never thought that would come in handy.
I saw Avatar once and I remember... nothing from it. So I'm going to take your word on this.
@@soapthesoap Not even the bad guy who was practicing his golf shots on some portable thing of fake grass, hitting a golf ball into his mug?
Congrats
Only one I remember is" how does it feel to betray your own species?"
I’d have gone with “Jake, you knew this would happen? “
The Spicy McGuffin™: It's face meltingly delicious!
0:55 - "She started calling them weenies because they were all practically indistinguishable and it didn't really matter"
I HAVE SEVERAL QUESTIONS.
2:20 - Wait, if Chekov's Gun is never Fired, doesn't that make it Chekov's Red Herring?
Only if you THINK it's going to be fired. But isn't and it is, in fact, just a shiny wall decoration.
It's a macguffin if the act of firing the gun doesn't actually impact the plot, whether the gun is fired or not, and it's a red herring if the act of firing would impact the plot, and the audience is led to believe it will fire, but it never actually fires, or firing it (surprise!) doesn't actually affect anything.
If the gun misfires, after it is mentioned how great a condition it's in, it becomes Chekov MacGuffin's Ironic Reversal of Expectations. Which sounds like a travelling carnival show!
if you're a lady trying to get ahead in hollywood then you're gonna see alot of weenies.
I am morally obligated to refrain from changing the 420 likes. Take my written expressed like
The Chaos Emeralds are in a weird spot.
In some games they're plot coupons that only do anything if you collect all of them.
In others, individual Chaos Emeralds are used to do crazy shit like Tails' protoype plane in Sonic Adventure or Eggman fracturing the planet in Sonic Advance 3 (not to be confused with the other time Eggman fractured the planet).
What about the time he pissed on the moon and cursed out Obama
@@virtualtools_3021 no chaos emeralds, that was simply the sheer power of his super laser piss
What about the time he cracked the moon
Sonic as a franchise in general uses diifferent gems as all type plot devices a lot of times...
*as I said before, mining in that world is a Lovecraftian horror trip*
@@maucazalv903 The gems aren't formed by natural geological occurrences, they're formed by the cosmic equivalents.
So what you’re saying is that Helen of Troy was a Macguffin🤔
Nah, she tells Odysseus what statue to go to to beat Troy
"Spicy McGuffin"!
I think I just found the name for my next dwarf character in D&D!
Probably a bard.
wickedpissa25
ENTERTAINER BACKGROUND
That's not his real name, but his stage name
he is actually something like bob smalltown
@@coolgreenbug7551 Two words: "MULLET!"
Don't get separated from the party, or they'll make jokes about looking for a MacGuffin.
his only character trait is that everyone wants him lol
wait a minute, does...does this mean that El Dorado was actually just the biggest Macguffin in the history of the western hemisphere?
Pretty much. I mean, it doesn't actually exist beyond 'must search for shiny thing'
Atlantis to.
@@mslightbulb I would argue that El Dorado was more significant.
Yes, yes it does
It's certainly up there with the likes of the Fountain of Youth and the Garden of Eden.
does anyone else remember the episode of phineas and ferb where candace and doof are both hunting down a doll named molly macguffin, whose name makes so much more sense now that you've seen this
I think I'll never forget the first time I heard the expression McGuffin.
There was this show, called "jacob two times" in which the main character spent an episode chasing a treasure hidden by a brand of chocolate powder, decades ago.
once he finally finds the treasure, he realize, pretty underwhelm, that it was just a lot of very expired chocolate powder. The brand's name? MacGuffin.
Me, every single trope talk: OH MY GOSH THIS IS A GREAT TOPIC
Because is Talk by a GREAT teacher
Seriously, Red's AMAZING with these. Not only do we get genuinely good analysis of the trope, but it's superbly entertaining
Sinead O. McDevitt it’s great the way she explains it! It’s higher learning but not a college sermonish lecture. ☺️
"You mean the Chaos Emeralds?"
The Elements of Harmony in the pilot episodes of MLP are a hybrid between a worthless macguffin (because very specific conditions need to be met to activate them, making them useless to most), a power-up macguffin, and a tactical macguffin (the latter two because they are what allow the protagonist(s) to defeat the villain via power-up, something that absolutely would’ve happened anyways). They are not plot coupons, however, as the set they come in is already completed.
Come to think of it, "Used to be a/bonded to a Macguffin" could be a great character backstory. They got sick of it and ran away or somtin'.
Ooo. Especially if they're the only one who's willing to admit the inherent uselessness of the Macguffin. Good character drama ideas with that one.
@@jdk2535 YES, then they team up with the new guy since he's the only one who hasn't been socially brainwashed into thinking the Mcguffin isn't the most important thing.
Couldnt Emmet from the lego movie apply as that type of macguffin (at least until he figured out wth to do with himself)? everyones fighting over him bc hes got the thingy stuck to his back
@@juliasnyder7284 I suppose, but I'm kind of imagining the person being really cynical and just rolling their eyes every time their damseled or something.
Amberle from Elfstones of Shannara. She was selected to be a caretaker of a magic tree that banished a demonic scourge, but girls are never chosen to be one. So she runs away, thinking it was a mistake, or pointless, or something (I don't remember, it's been 15 years since I read it). However she must go to the tree to get a magic seed, go somewhere with the seed, then bring it back to plant a new tree. But I'm pretty sure she hates doing it for 80% of the story.
Throughout this entire video I was just waiting, waiting, waiting for A Series of Unfortunate Events to come up. The sugar bowl fits the definition of a macguffin to a T.
It fits it so well that *we literally never find out what it’s for.*
In the books at least.
Now I want a story where everyone is chasing a mcguffin for FOMO reasons and then you find out at some point there's no one left who actually remembers what the mcguffin is and that no one has a real reason to chase it
That sounds far to real, but I’d read it.
So I can write a character named Macguffin? And he’s wanted by everyone for various reasons?
Sounds lit.
Do it! Would be epic, especially if he had no idea why everyone wanted him.
...Oh my god that's genius.
@@AegixDrakan It's about as genius as making your password "password"
@@koatam Uhh....... **changes all his passwords**
Also, it's the humor of it that's genius not the idea per se. :P
My character is Magica Macguffin who’s a walking macguffin
Surprisingly she doesn’t know how to fight but is really good at evading capture
Her powers are unlimited mana
So basically all those wizards dying for over using their mana force can be immortal with her powers
"The walking Macguffin"
HELAN OF TROY!!!!!!!!
In more than one myth, even. Poor thing.
But the story only happened because Paris and her Husband fought about her.
@@cockycookie1 That is how a Macguffin works, yes.
I think you misspelled kairi
@@icepawtheyugiohdumbass9955 lol True that
another important one is the location mcguffin, which usually feeds into the “the meaning was in the journey not the destination” theme
Honestly, one of my favorite things is seeing people try to turn another character into a macguffin and failing because hey people have agency. It's usually at least good for some angst and a dramatic rescue, and it can definitely say something about the characters
Me: *thinking as I'm watching* So...Does that mean the Dragon Scroll from Kung Fu Panda is a Macguffin?
Video 2 minutes later: *Plays that scene from Kung Fu Panda*
Me: ...Neat
The Dragon Scroll is like the ring. If you replace it with a super-soldier serum or a bag of money then you break the plot. There is no "secret ingredient" to greatness, only endless practice and training.
@@classarank7youtubeherokeyb63 Less practice and training, and more self-respect. Look at the first two villains (still haven't gotten around to 3 yet, need to do something about that); both have some perceived failing about themselves that they internalized as the worst thing ever and insist is everyone's fault but theirs and never actually deal with head on. Po, in contrast, faces up to his flaws and issues and does something about them.
It took Humanity Eons to figure out
that Female Humans arent meant to
be a Macguffin.
@@slevinchannel7589 ...It took humanity eons to figure out that _humans_ aren't meant to be Macguffins.
It is also the heart of Zen Buddhism. Meditate on that for a hot minute; maybe the Tiger had a point. ;-)
Red: Avatar-- Remember? That movie that made nearly $3 billion but no one can quote a single line from?
Me: Whoops.
@@Thomas.Wright yeah shame that one never got a movie
@@Thomas.Wright I do not know which movie you guys are discussing, as it certainly does not exist and no one should talk about it.
Actually i remember a quote cause it's a quote from another movie... "you aren't in Kansas anymore" -general macbadguy
Every living thing out there that crawls, flies, or squats in the mud wants to kill you and eat your eyes out for jujubes.
I will never say Avatar is a good movie.
However, I will, dispite not normally caring about a movie's visuals beyond how they further the plot, say that it was drop-dead gorgeous and I don't regret going to see it in the slightest dispite the 3d glasses giving me painful eye strain.
The plot dealing with the humans was just a wrapping and a visual palette cleanser to break up the enjoyment of the finest ambrosia of eye candy.
“They’re pissing on us without even the courtesy of calling it rain”
- Avatar
Macguffins explained in a reference
"Oh look Moxxie! A thing!"
"Oh, you like that thing?"
"YES! I don't really know what that thing is but I want that thing!"
I would like to add the - location macguffin. When the whole plot of story is getting to that one place - holds ultimate power blah blah.
Also the information mcguffin. A secret everyone wanta to learn but has no meaning. Prime example: Rosebud.
The promised land is probably the earliest example of this.
Like a fountain of Youth or some other magical place said to give something people want. Could be interchanged with any other fountain or place.
@Artina Li I agree for now, but it seems like it'll have a significant plot relevance once its discovered. Until then, its definitely a macguffin.
@@PregnantOrc rosebud has meaning, if you play the Sims at least
Thor: Dark World is so forgettable people don't even remember which Thor movie it was, apparently.
Its the thor movie that isn't ragnorok but isnt the first one
I mean I fell asleep watching it.
any game show prize is technically a mcguffin
10:35 - River Tam from Firefly.
No, literally - the bad guys are treating her like a walking MacGuffin, whilst her brother, and slowly the rest of the crew, treat her like a person (albeit a person who is very mentally disturbed and needs a lot of care and support - which she arguably is) and the only time that one crew member - Jayne - treats her like a MacGuffin to try and sell to the bad guys, he gets his ass royally kicked for it.
I liked the dichotomy of good guys treat people as people (even if they aren’t “useful”) vs bad guys treat people as objects.
My brain: how is she staying still for so long, isn't back sore like that.
It's an inherent advantage to being a drawing. You can hold a pose for infinity amount of time. xD
Changer oh the horrors of art, always reminding you of your own limited existence.
@@theeccentricwriter4657 and also reminding people that they don't have as huge of boobs as they wish they did, so they get mad over a drawing and the artists for drawing said boobs!
@@darienb1127 ( o Y o )
Im still looking at the massive gap between the bookcase and the wall.
In Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone, the Stone is technically a MacGuffin, given how you could just change around what it is and why the baddies want it and then the story is the same. Likewise, in Percy Jackson and the Lightning Thief, all that matters about the Lightning is that it’s a really powerful weapon. It could have been a bomb, it could have been a Magic sword, the Lightning just makes the most sense in-story.
it's not even that it's a weapon. No one ever wants to use the weapon, different party's just want it because it will either cause or prevent a god civil war
Cameron’s Avatar was far too insulting to even a child’s intelligence to be described as merely “forgettable.” It actually did have some funny lines, the problem is they were meant to be taken seriously.
In a dnd campaign, we have a tactical mcguffin in the form of a fancy golden seal. We had a big red dragon chasing us down to get it.
The only reason I am calling it a mcguffin is because we never finished the campaign so we never got to see what it did.
It cures the dragons terrible acne.
ThomasstevenSlater
We were told by the two NPCs with us that it will close off the source of a huge monstrous whirlpool and set the world’s ocean and air currents back to normal. But since we never got to the end, we never found out if that was true.
for a second a thought you said seel as in the animal, I invisioned a load of heroes dragging a giant blubbery mammal across the country side! lol
Anna Thomas 😂 that’d be hilarious
I desperately want to believe it was an actual golden seal as in the animal
I think you went Thor 2 as “The Thor nobody watched”.
Because it seems like everyone and their mom watched and LOVED Thor 3
Thor 2 was so unremarkable that people forget it's Thor 2
@Star Saber Because they went to the trash planet. I get it
Thor 2: didn't watch, check.
Thor 3: wait, that even exists...?
Thor 3 makes Thor 1 look like Thor 2
Lady Phoenix I love Thor 2
As an animation student, this has been helpful, thanks!
Also, the way you paraphrased Alfred's example of a MacGuffin made me laugh 😆
Macguffins becoming characters, by hatching from an egg, coming back to life, or waking up is like my favorite subtrope
I love when they find the treasure room in National Treasure, and they are all happy that it was proven it existed and everyone is happy that much has happened but then find tens of billions in treasure and priceless ancient artifacts they gawk at for 6 minutes. Love that movie
Ed?
Edd?
Eddy?
I think they were allowed to get away with that because the character motivation was not about the money, but about finally finishing his family's quest to prove it was real.
This sentance just triggered an extremely vivid scene from treasure island where that exact thing happened
I just thought of another good use of a Mcguffin. Symbolism. The Mcguffin physically representing a more abstract concept that the characters desire. I was bouncing around the idea of whether or not immortality and power in the more generic Xianxia/Wuxia stories would count as a Mcguffin, and that kind of transitioned into a realization that many if not most Mcguffins have something they represent, and if used well, can add to the narrative. For instance, think of the Ark of the Covenant as a symbol of divine judgement. The Nazis want to smite their enemies, but get struck down themselves. In spy stories it could be security, and most power up Mcguffins are simply power.
Yup, the knights questing for the Holy Grail weren’t just looking for an old cup ;)
With "The Mandalorian" Baby Yoda represents the Mandalorian's own inner softie, in conflict with his violent exterior. Or it represents innocence itself, which must be protected by non-innocent (violent) means.
also the common themes of greed would be a good one, and im pretty sure its even touched on in the video.
So, the Mcguffin has no effect on the plot but it can affect characterisation: "Which Mcguffin do you want to chase? Immortality? Power? Beauty? Honor? Fame? Luxury? World Piece? A way to get revenge? A lost love? A lost relative? A way back to your home dimension?"
Oh symbolism, just kill me now. I could go the rest of my life without dealing with stories trying to encode deeper meaning and it would still be too soon.
"Eywa answered your call."
I actually liked both Avatars.
“They’re pissing on us without even the courtesy of calling it rain”
"This one: run or not run?"
"Definitely...run!!"
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest is a perfect example of a great use for a Macguffin
If I recall, one of Kurt Vonnegut's rules of writing is that every character should want something even if it's just a glass of water, meaning as long as it drives the plot and creates character progression, it shouldn't matter what they're pursuing. Pretty much a reflection of the friends along the way trope.
seems to closely align with the first rule VtM gives for compelling drama: a person, a goal, and an obstacle in between.
It's so much easier to RP a kindred who's one fail away from hunger frenzy by equating blood to something I've experienced desperately wanting.
Personal favorite MacGuffin: the Triforce. Nebulously powerful, rarely ever used onscreen, and thematically links (heheh) the central characters both to each other and the concepts that they embody.
Oh, I actually really like that! I've also noticed that, in the games where the Triforce is the Thing, it's always just sought out, found, split up, and never actually used in any meaningful way. Maybe it makes Ganondorf more powerful, but how much power he had to start with is ambiguous, so the boost is too. The Triforce is a total McGuffin! XD
Most Zelda games feature 8 MacGuffins of some sort
@@spencerrawls970 That's true. In fact, in Ocarina of Time, you even have to collect three MacGuffins before you actually get to the main one!
@@spencerrawls970 think they're called Plot coupons at that point
It was used in a Link Between Worlds to heal Lorule... still counts as a macguffin, though.
I also remember the "Collect all the things, but it fails. At least have more than my rival, maybe that helps?" McGuffin.
10:27 now all I can think about is some crystalline being who's character arc is wanting to become physically soft so it can cuddle a cat or something.
I actually really love "must collect all the things" mcguffins when they're done well because they allow for a lot of variety. Different locations, subplots, obstacles, etc. It also allows for those moments where the villain can come out on top every now and then and it's not the end of the world, just a serious setback. Like, if your protag needs to collect 10 magical gems, it's all too easy to give the villain a head start and maybe have 1 or 2 already, or have moments where they just get there first and get a gem before the protag can. It forces conflict because now the villain will be hunting the protag to get the ones the protag has, and the protag will eventually have to confront the villain to get the ones the villain has.
I just realized how much of Xiaolin Showdown & Miraculous Ladybug are collect the Macguffin stories. Especially Xiaolin Showdown, in the way you describe.
RWBY is turning out to be this.
Oh, gosh. Cardcaptor Sakura?
I wanna see one of these stories where it's the classic "we can't let the villain collect the eight laser-rocks, or he'll destroy detroit!" except instead of assembling the eight rocks themselves, the heroes just squat on one or two, or solely play keep-away with them instead. Like, not trying to beat the villain, just trying to make sure the villain doesn't win.
@@DinsRuneI suppose the problem with that is no long term solution. Simply taking 1 of the McGuffins and keeping it from the Villain does not solve the issue from a narrative perspective. Unless one of the characters is able to permanently defeat the bad guy due to it.
There is also the fact that maybe a character needs them all themself and is not willing to take the long way to do it or sacrifice.
The last time I was this early, Chekhov's gun hadn't fired yet.
Give it a chapter or two
I never thought about how not all of the Infinity Stones have defined powers.
Really only the Space and Time Stone have powers that are defined.
Any time I see The Dragon Prince referenced anywhere a small grin cracks over my face.
me too, dude!!
Wait you telling me that these three gold triangles I've been protecting have been useless
I mean, the Triforce does have the ability to grant wishes.
@@Dinoman972 it stops being a macguffin as soon as you use it
@@illuminoeye_gaming Exactly.
I mean… in Ocarina of Time and therefore TP, the Triforce is more of a Chekhov’s gun.
A few suggestions for future Talks:
Love Triangle
Villains Win/Worst Case Scenario
Evil With Standards
Revenge Quest
Murder Mystery
Backstory/Flashbacks
Betrayal/Traitor storylines
Emotional Breakdowns
Blind Rage/Rage moments
By “Blind Rage”, you mean something like Achilles?
@@BlackCover95 Yeah, sort of. Just kind of any situation where a character loses control from some reason or another and goes berserk.
@@kenedyg.4509 probably how Aeneas one, by keeping his cool, I mean.
These are very good suggestions
So basically, "please Red just analyse everything about Avatar: the Last Airbender for like three hours"
I second this movement wholeheartedly
That last part about the character with agency who’s treated like a McGuffin fits Leeloo from the Fifth Element pretty well.
This reminds me of the GS ball from the Pokémon anime. It did nothing and yet Ash had to deliver it to multiple people because they wanted study it.
I heard somewhere it was going to contain celebi, but I can't remember if that was a rumor
The Reality stone gets used in Infinity War when Thanos turns Drax and Mantis into 3-D Art and makes Quill's gun shoot bubbles
But it is a McGuffin in Thor 2.
The Collector's whole room was reality stone'd.
That didn't really impact the plot, though. Thanos could have easily stopped Drax, Mantis, and Peter with his own power. He just used the Reality Stone because it amused him.
arakasi2 He also used it to help tell Strange his backstory, but that was also kind of unnecessary as well
...continuoty stone
2:08 actually at the very end we do.
It's very easy to miss miss, but there is a section at the end where Ethan asks his boss what the rabbits foot does. His boss just kind of sits there and smiles.
This is supposed to bring back an an early conversation where someone brings up that "it could just be a bunny appendage".
Meaning that the entire movie was everyone chasing after an actual lucky rabbits foot. Which is brilliant and really drives home your point so I thought you might like to know.
So it is a useless MacGuffin then? Just practicing the theory I just learned, not contradicting you.
@@ToonedMinecraft yeah. It was literally just a rabbits foot that the agency head used to find the traitor, and I can't help but admire the brilliance of it.
I am finding that rewatching these videos is helpful for a book I'm writing. Thanks OSP.
Yo this series helps me write my comic so much thank you for making trope talk
I like to think that the Rabbit's foot in Mission Impossible 3 was actually a rabbit themed porno.
And throw on the Playboy Bunny memes
It's that Zootopia doujin. We all know the one.
@@SomeRandomGuy-vc6ho look it up. I'm not going to sully this comment section with the name.
MoreDetonation an actual doujin or just beaststars?
@@mslightbulb the Zootopia doujin. With the copyrighted characters.
macguffin: something everyone chases but does nothing for the plot
did someone say one piece?
It creates the plot
@@simonegreco1958 Wouldn't be Maguffin if it didn't.
Hashirama Senju you totally missed a chance to make a Naruto reference
DarthUchiha17 but even the video said it, having a McGuffin is an easy way to generate the plot
aren't the blue prints for pluton technically a macguffin as well?
This reminds me of villains who want the power to “RULE THE WORLD!!!” just....because? They want it, but that’s about it
I have a character who's a walking macguffin and a worthless macguffin because her fiance is trying to find her the whole story only to find out at the end she left him on purpose and that frees him up to become his own person and eventually save the world for the right reasons
“Nobody can quote avatar”
Wrong
“They're just pissing on us without even giving us the courtesy of calling it rain”
That is literally the one quote that came to mind.
Gotta say...that quote goes hard as shit
Nice but it's no "We're gonna need a bigger boat" and it reminds me too much of the 2005 film "Roll Bounce" when Bow wow said "Most of us dont even got a pot to piss in"
"y o u ' r e o n *PAN--DOR_AH*"
“Heheheheheh Jarhead?”
“Lol yeah”
Hey Red just had a thought for a trope talk. The perfect reality. So many shows have an episode where a character is trapped in their perfect reality and have to break out. Shera, Gravity falls, Justice League. Comes up a lot as I think about it.
Does a Mary Sue ever get trapped in such a reality, but then, because she's so smart, she realizes it's Too perfect, and so is able to escape it, or is there no reality so perfect that she couldn't plausibly attain it?
It happens in Suicide Squad, Moving Pictures by Terry Pratchett, Red Dwarf Better Than Life (the book), Star Trek Generations.
What if, the hero's reality is already pretty good. The one thing that could make it better is if his mother hadn't died. And then she turns up. Can you have a one-person perfect reality?
This happened at least twice in "Star Trek: The Next Generation"
They were shapeshifters. And they were hard to escape.
It’s in Kipo too.
Batman: The Animated Series nailed this trope.
red: talks shit about avatar
me: *sad this is my favorite movie noises*
Really? What's your favorite part about the Smurfs x Pocahontas crossover? Maybe there's simply something I missed.
@@Wendy_O._Koopa dragons
The moment you said "walking macguffin", my mind jumped to the "walking stone" from Rakkety Tam. One of my favorites.
All this did is reveal that a lot of my favorite stories are fetch quests. Which led me to realize my entire life is a fetch quest. Huzzah for Macguffin life analysis! LOL
*Rule 34:* Macguffin? What's that? Some kind of fetish?
Everybody's stripping because they all want the same thing
Yes. You should try it sometime oni-chan
Rule ۦ I have many things to say about you, but they can all be sumerize with ONE FINGER.
You are so funny. This show brings me joy. Thank you!
I have been watching your guys videos since 2018 and I love all of it.
Keep it going with the good work red and blue, I love your videos.
Greetings from Brazil.
"Baby Yoda is a maguffin and you guys all love him." Red just called out the entire world and I love it!
He stops being a macguffin after like episode two
After 19 months of this being on my feed almost every day I’m finally gonna watch it
The soul stone, by name, has power over the soul. I think it would allow you to create or destroy souls, or manipulate them in some fashion, but yeah, the movies never explore them.
Which is a god damn shame, because a movie exploring each of the infinity stones' specific powers could be really interesting. Hell, the most fun I had in Infinity War was watching Thanos get creative with the reality stone, something no one else ever did (including him at any other point in the movie).
“This stone can warp reality, what should we do with it?” “Uhhhh, make Thanos use it to turn Drax and Mantis into strings or something and they‘re virtually unscathed when he leaves. Thanos makes a powerpoint presentation of his planet.” “Sounds great!”
On the other hand it's not like Thanos was an expert on these things, he probably has no imagination
@@simonegreco1958 Exactly! His plan was in fact incredibly dumb, sadly Disney didn't fallow it up.
@@TheRezro Disney doesn't dwell with plot details, you meant Marvel Studios, also what did they have to follow up?
The plan wasn't stupid, the overall mission is the dumb thing
@@simonegreco1958 Marvel Studios is Disney. Destruction of actually resource saving infrastructure (what need proper population to operate) is most ridiculous thing ever. Only people without basic knowledge about economy think that killing half of population save resources. In reality population corespondent to capability of the infrastructure. You would need use lot of resources to reconstruct what was lost. In short, Thanons is a Emo.
@@TheRezro Ownership is not identity. Disney doesn't even have production credits on these
Also yeah I know. I studied demography. I know what Thanos tried to do is stupid. That's not what I was saying. His mission - deleting half of life - is dumb. His plan - using the Infinity Stones to do so, with the help of the Black Order - is solid. It's just at the service of the vision of a madman
Is Harry Potter a macguffin?
Edit: I'm an idiot
No he's Gryffindor
He's actually a wizard.
But I'm just harry
@@sherk3286 that's not what your username says.
no but the weatherman from the first chapter of Harry Potter & Philsopher's Stone is called Jim MacGuffin
Another example of why Macguffins aren’t necessarily bad. I’ve been reading a lot of Poirot short stories and most of them do feature Macguffins. But the audience doesn’t care what the valuable object is, the audience wants to know where it is and how Poirot figured out where it is.
When you started talking about people macguffins, all I could think of was kuwei
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