@@tFighterPilot I think 'the lib' actually agreed with Shapiro - he was nodding and smiling. Did you not listen to the question? It sounded to me like the questioner was presenting a common pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel argument, he wasn't saying he agreed with it.
Wait did the guy keep talking over the next person to ask questions? Or did the person here who asked the question go ahead and sit quietly after this.
Challenge I have with Shaprio’s argument is that he’s using “moral compass” to justify land ownership and his needle is clearly fixated in one direction. Would the world be better if the land was ruled by Israel? Depends on whether or not you ask the Palestinian farmers/home owners who have had their land taken. Depends on whether you ask the families of the innocents killed. Clearly, from their perspective that’s a hard no. Would the world be better if the land was ruled by Hamas? Only an idiot would reply that it would. Oct 7th is just one example of atrocities in the name of fundamentalism that we cannot tolerate. But would the world be better off if there were to be a 2 state solution, supported by democracy in which neither side murdered innocents? That has to the be the goal and the ideal we strive for.
@@narkelnaru2710 Many of immigrants to America were fleeing persecution or famine. The passengers of The Mayflower in 1620 were fleeing religious persecution in England.
@@luckystarship2275 You mean chasing life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness ? And how do those silly reasons compare with the present reasons that people want to move to America ?
@ronaldcadorette4353 Why don’t you ask why so many dual-passport European settlers are leaving their stolen homes? They’ve caused enough chaos in the area, is that it?
Why forget about indigeneity? There are two MASSIVE pieces of archaeology that shows Israel is Jewish indigenous. It's called the Western Wall, and if that's not big enough for someone, how about that ginormous fortress from Roman times called Masada? Both are older than Islam itself by multiple centuries.
Then there’s that history book about that very Jewish bloke, Jesus .. I think then mention something about how many thousand years the Jewish were there prior to that so that’s like .. five thousand years. Then there’s that nuisance the Torah talking facts.. . How many countries have that much written evidence?
@@RedSquirrelsReturn What if you don't believe the writings of the Bible and Torah? It's only "fact" if you believe it to be "fact". That's where your argument falls apart.
There is literally TONS of archaeology showing a 3500 years of Jewish presence continually in the land of Israel. The Arabs never came into Israel until about 650 AD when they spread Islam all over the Middle East and North Africa.
@@RichardTavilla Yeah, & WHOSE fault is that for not educating their kids in the first place? I'm getting real sick & tired of people moaning about ignorant kids when they FAILED their job as parents. You think kids learn from osmosis? You have to TEACH them! So stop being lazy, entitled fucks!
@@AkbarZeb-p6f and yes, you are so correct whenever I can I do I enter her 20 kids through our church but most of them down here come from conservative parents and already know. I blame the teachers in our colleges.
Still a spurious argument. It doesn’t matter who was there 3000 years ago. It really does come down to Israel is a nice place to live because it’s run by Israelis and Palestine is a horrible place to live because it’s run by Palestinians.
Seriously .....is the world so amazing to you when someone can be quiet and let someone speak for one minute. Is that so wonderful to you? Man what have you grown up around.
Ben denied the illegal occupation in 1948 said it never happened. Ben didn't condemn israel killing more than 40 thousand palestinians including children and pregnant woman. Ben didn't explain the reason behind settlers moving to gaza for the expansion of illegal settlement for zionist. Ben never recognized palestinians rights to obtain their land back from the occupation 70 years ago And the list goes on Let mehdi hassan ask him the right questions
Invading or colonising other nations and eliminating their culture began to be unacceptable in the modern era . In 1939 the world was sufficiently civilised to perceive German expansion to be barbaric. Today we can't believe what russia did n is trying to do. Today you simply don't do that. .All said and done the Jewish folk in the Levant region are immigrants not colonisers. They purchased the holdings at good prices for the sellers. And subsequently obtained futher territory on account of reparations owed by the people who attacked them to inflict death and losses.
You must be an American" As where I live as British and Dutch, most I know here lived in Holland for century's. Americans have no problem with Colonialism, as seldom is their an Indian surname to be found, most are murdered by Europeans.
Not the settlers then, you do realise many of the dual-nationals fled to the countries of their origin, right?…mostly to Europe & the US. Recently watched an investigative video on many of them buying up property in Cyprus. The ones expected to fight for them will be the sons and daughters of US and EU taxpayers. Simply facts.
Hi It actually comes back to the Biblical God given covenant which in it’s world redemption plan places Israel as it’s starting point of prophetic realisation= The return( After their and His 2000 exile and absence) of the Jewish Messiah King to Zion’s Holy Hill which Psalm 2 explains!
@@toosiyabrandt8676 sure. But we live in a world of free will. For example men and woman are made in the image of God. This is true always, because it is God given. And yet, men can treat women as if this is not true, they can deny them rights, respect, freedoms and property. Why can they do this? Because the men have the strength to enforce it.
@@toosiyabrandt8676 If we want peace we should be supporting and respecting both sides and attempting to gain an understanding of both Israel and the Palestinian's points of view.
I have no dog in this fight but, as an outsider looking in and after learning a lot of history based on the current debate, I would say review all of history in regard to Palestinian's behavior when welcomed with open arms *ANYWHERE* they have been invited to and if that doesn't help you determine what they have got *themselves* into, you're on the wrong side of history, not this war.
I absolutely disagree with ignoring that our indigenous claims. The reality outside of the biblical narrative is that Jews ARE an indigenous group to that region and have had the longest running presence there.
Ashkenazi jews are indigenous to Europe, being a mixture of middle eastern jews and europeans. Such a long time elapsed after the exile of the jews that a new ethnic group emerged out of the rhineland region of Europe called the Ashkenazim. As such, while they have ancestors from the Levant (and Europe), they originated as a new group from Europe and are indigenous to that area. So they had NO business flooding palestine and stealing the land from the actual natives that lived there continuously for over 1000 years.
@@Kprywatne Who even cares where people's ancestors are from. If I descend from vikings it doesn't make me a viking or give me any claim to a house in Scandinavia.
yes i agree but, there are way easier, simpler, and bettert arguments like: why do the arabs need palestine so badly, they say "jerusalem is very important to arabs!!" but they made it 'important' so they could justify the expelling of the jewish people."
Ben is the best at explaining things to people! He’s the best at it and I think he needs to continue to educate people who don’t understand what they are talking about!
Targum Jerusalem, Deuteronomy 26:3 - And thou shalt come to the priest who will be appointed the chief priest in those days, and say to him, We give glory and thanks this day before the Lord thy God, that we have come into the land which the Word of the Lord did covenant unto our fathers to give us.
If we want peace we should be supporting and respecting both sides and attempting to gain an understanding of both Israel and the Palestinians points of view.
@@paulcharles6897 The western world with the US at the front lets Israel be a Criminal Apartheids State. Supplying all the weapons, bombs and rockets. Blocking UN resolutions etc etc.
Ben is right, but the title of this video (like so many others) is misleading and honestly kind of dumb. The student is not speechless. And the student did not appear to be opposed to Ben's position as he asked the question and heard the response. As Ben clearly states, indigeneity is, at best, a weak argument that Israel belongs to the Jews. I think (as a Jew) that our cultural and historical connection to the land is a far stronger argument than our genetic linkage, and another strong argument is the one that Ben uses here, which is that the Jews should have control of their homeland for the simple reason that the Muslims are incapable of running a country or providing an acceptable minimum of human rights and freedom for all people. Israel is an absolute gem of a country, with it's history, culture, modern values, innovation, excellent health care, good schools, strong legal system, democracy, high quality of life, etc. Meanwhile, Islam seeks nothing less than global dominion-Dar al-Islam-and a desire to live in the Iron Age. The quality of life for most people in the Arab Muslim countries is awful. That should be enough to settle this dispute about who deserves to be in charge.
These arguments seem to presume Jews all just showed up in Israel in 1946-7 and forcibly took land. Nothing could be further from the truth. First, there were always some Jews there. In 1850 Jerusalem was majority Jews. Yes, Arabs outnumbered Jews in the overall territory, which was ill-defined. And yes, Jews started immigrating LEGALLY in the 19th century, and they BOUGHT land. This continued under the British. Land was never forcibly seized. Arabs are mad that Jews immigrated, even though legally. But large numbers of Arabs immigrated also, particularly under the British. When it came time to establish states, it was relevant that Arabs had never had a state there, they were simply residents like Jews and Christians under a series of foreign empires.
It's called clickbait. Modern people are hooked on controversy nowadays, so content creators need to over emphasize their titles in order to gain a large audience. Blame the younger generation.
The same argument applies to Western Europe. Would any of those countries be better off if they had more Jews than Muslims living in them? I feel sure it would be better with the former.
@@rewdwarf123 true. we never, whatever the circumstances, yelled "Death to America", or insulted people. Look around at how many hospitals in the US and Canada were made by Jews.
According to the Dept of Education’s database, $150M was donated anonymously to Yale by a donor in Guernsey. Guernsey has been called the financial center for the middle east.
If you mean the Maori are indigenous to NZ then you are wrong. Even they say they came from elsewhere and that there were already people here (who they killed and ate.)
@@gbone7581 Too right. Food plus none left standing to complain about reparations somewhere down the line. The Europeans missed an important lesson there.
The important point is that the UN voted for a 2 partition country of the Jews and Arabs. The Arabs rejected the deal for one reason only. They wanted Arab unity in the Middle East, so in 1948, 7 Arab countries attacked Israel with goal to commit genocide on the Jewish population and take over the entire land. They lost.
@@opinionsandfaxc By more than 1,000 years, “Israel” predates “Palestine.” The land then became home primarily to an Arab population, again for more than a millennium. Both Jews and Arabs thus have a legitimate claim to the land. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has seen myriad wrongs and brutalities on both sides.Jul 6, 2021
They got thier arses KICKED!!! Israel didn't even have a standing Army, nothing special for weapons and I think The Flying Tigers of WW2,an American Squadron famous for fighting the Japanese out of China came and helped them out. My point is that Israel shouldn't have been victorious in any of the wars in the 40's, 60's and 70's. Always outnumbered and outgunned. God perhaps? I believe so but one other thing. The US War College doesn't teach Israeli Tactics because they shouldn't be winning these Battles because it's IMPOSSIBLE. Lol. I Love Israel. God's Chosen People. 🇨🇦👍🍻
אין מצב!!! בדיוק היום חשבתי על השאלה הזאת וחשבתי בדיוק על התשובה של בן!! אשרי שזכיתי לכוון... ואשרינו שזכינו לבן שפירו! לחיות במדינת ישראל המדהימהההה 🥰🥰🥰
That's not exactly the argument. The argument, as I understand it, is: "There are two sides in a land dispute (let's disregard the religious aspect for now). Both sides have seemingly compelling arguments as to why the land is theirs. Instead of cherry picking the arguments you like from the side you like and ignoring the other (like 99% of the internet is doing), let's assume for a moment that both sides are equally compelling in their argument. Who do you want to win? Which would you prefer to rule there? Not who is correct in some historical sense, but what world would you prefer to live in? One where side A wins, or one where side B?".
The answer is God gave the land to descendants of Abraham. Whenever Israelis are governing this land it is prosperous and peaceful. The Jews know how to prosper and have turned a wilderness into fruitful fields.
@@rogerjohnson2562 Yes He did allow those things to discipline Israel because of disobedience but the land has always belonged to Israel. When we disobey, God withdraws His protection and Satan is the one who is behind any persecution because he has always hated the people of God.
It's also a misdirect that Native Americans are the first indigenous people of North America/USA. From what point in history do we measure indigenaeity?
@@cirrus1964. What do you find foolish about it? In which country/area are women full citizens under the law, regardless of their religion? In which area can alternative lifestyles be lived openly? In which area can citizens voice their political grievances without being silenced by force?
I'm an Israeli and Israel is the only country in the world in which I feel comfortable as a secular Jew. Speaking of Jew, it should be noted that Jews have "only" been around for 2500 years, since the Babylonian exile. Abraham was a Hebrew and King David was a member of the tribe of Judah, part of the children of Israel, Jacob. In my opinion, our survival is credited to our ability to adjust and modify in accordance with new realities in this, sometimes, very cruel world.
When non-secular Jews, with their birth rate, overtake the seculars in number, israel might become the country where you are least comfortable as a secular Jew.
Ancestry is not an external argument, as Ben explains. It is the story/connection we tell ourselves. But, the Jews that came before 1948 bought the land. No one took it by force. Also, most of the so-called Palestinian are mostly migrants from neighbouring Arabs countries.
ok, so if you live in the US, are you prepared to give your home back to the Native Americans who occupied the land 2-3 centuries ago? If not, keep your hypocrisy to yourself.
@@TavistockLiesBrainwashing Very wrong, very wrong. Moreover, the land was kind of empty mid 19's century. This is when Jews started to go there and buy land. And they generated economic growth, attracting Arabs from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon...who became today's Palestinians for the major part
@theokatcha6026 attracting arabs after the Jews went in !! Have u ever heard of the city of jaffa which was inhabited by arabs and their leader was ahmed pasha elgazzar who resisted and defeated napoleon's siege on the city And ur saying it was an empty land before the Jews came in yeah right
Every student has the smirking "I'm clever" while they are anything BUT and the ever present SMIRK. But at least this lad said thank you or didn't try to drown out what he said as the maniacs do
My support of Israel is not based upon anything that the UN or any other antisemitic person, country or body declares. It is based upon the promise that God made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. This world and our universe as declared and written in the Genesis account was made by the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and it is His to give to the promise He made to them. Though those of the Jewish faith may dispute who the Messiah is, the nation of Israel has ever right to be on the land that was given to them by God. Those who want to take what is rightfully Israel's have been cursed and will not succeed and those who support Israel share in the blessing of what is Israel's. The one's who are wrongfully in possession of the land that should be Israel's are those who are trying to take what is God's. They will fail. Pray for the peace of Israel. Pray for the peace in Jerusalem.
If you want to Know more about Canaanite's Please come to Kerala, India. Along with the Jewish settlements Christianity also flourished from AD 72. The oldest Christian community known as Nasrani. Syrian Christian from Canan came here around AD 325. Almost 300 families came and settled here. They now known as Knanaya Christians🙏
The original question: should indigeneity be used as an argument for occupation of a land, and if so, how far should we go back? Ben's answer: no. rather we should ask, who can do a better job of running the place today? Biblical answer: Jews are not indigenous to Israel. It is theirs because God, who created the whole world and is the rightful owner of all of it gave it to them.
God's soon coming Son will permanently settle the issue of whose land it is. Remember God owns All the land and lends it to others to steward. At some distant point, He Will destroy the earth, sun, moon and stars. Everything is made by God, so He alone controls what happens to it or stewards it any given point.
@@oumchar You yourself don't even know what a "worthy scholar" is. So, how could a dope comprehend Ben's debating skills....putting aside he is famous and invited to debates everywhere. You too, if known, would be very famous.....as a dope.
@@oumchar He’s debated many adult political adversaries. Do a search. Visiting colleges is a great way to influence young people while they’re developing political opinions and identity.
@@oumchar he has... lol. plus, there are plenty of college students who can actually debate at a very high level. we just don't see it as often as we see idiots on youtube
No one's holdling hands and singing Kumbaya, sorry dude. The fact is that the "Palestinians" (really "Arabs") don't want peace or a two-state solution. They want Israel and Jews to not exist. How do you "get along" with that?
America goes through this same complaint also. Native Americans and Mexicans often complain about "stolen land". Hawaii is a good example. There are no "indigenous" people because the islands were formed from undersea volcanoes. The first inhabitants of the islands were exterminated by the "Polynesians" that invaded, and to this day we refer to the "Polynesian invaders" as native Hawaiians. The Black Hills is another example. White Europeans took the land by conquest, which had determined the ownership of land since the beginning of time. White Europeans took the land from the Sioux. The Sioux took the land from, I believe it was the Cheyenne. In the discussions, the Sioux were asked if they got the Black Hills returned to them, would they, in turn return it to the Cheyenne, since they "stole" the land from the Cheyenne? The Sioux responded and said that they would not return the land to the Cheyenne - that it belonged to them by right of conquest... The hypocrisy just never ends. I guess it's only considered "stolen land" when it was conquered by white Europeans.
The fact Arabs complain about the 1947 Nakba is a disgrace. They invaded Israel with six Arab armies, their intent was to murder every Jew in sight and take all the land back. They lost and claim to be victims? how the hell does that work?
"murder every jew in sight and take all the land BACK"..."take all the land BACK" implies the ISRAELIS STOLE the land as you can't take it back unless you had it before so either way they are victims? get it?
@@mylist4039 International law? That land was given to the the Jews by the UK who lawfully owned it. Most was given to Arabs who still wanted more. Palestinians didn't even call themselves Palestinians til the 1960s, which by the way is a greek word.
If you really think about it, nobody can lay claim to ownership of land. Unless you can prove that anyone person created the land we all walk upon, the water we drink and the air we breathe, then no can lay claim. Some may think God created the land we all enjoy. Those who believe so, should write to God and get written permission to transfer the ownership of land to them.
The Same people in the same land, that practiced the same religion in a country that has the same Name as 3000 years ago. It Doesn't get more indigenous then that!
well i would like to apply that to India and Canada. would India be better off if it were still under British control? would Canada be better off if it became part of the United States? my answer to both questions is a definite Yes
You could really go a step further and not limit your opponent to choosing between Gaza or the West Bank, but ask them whether they'd like to live in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, or Egypt. Israel is a much better place to live and work than all of the surrounding countries.
The question is willingly tricky because is not if the world prefers "gaza under hamas" because I think it would be as worse as "israel under the current killer-addict". What would you prefer a free palestinian people doing their stuff or free jewish doing their stuff?
Don’t you notice that no matter what and how much Ben Shapiro and others explain Israel, it doesn’t help? I am certain that NO ONE changed their minds after listening to those debates
What there was, was a perfectly legal expulsion of Arabs who engaged in a war of annihilation against Israel in 1948. Not long after, the entire Arab world expelled 99.9% of their Jews who had been there for 2000 years, even though they had done nothing. About 850,000 Jews. Right of return!
Muslims were basically jews before so why not allow them to live there since it's their right as you claim. All abrahamic religions have claim not just jews
Ben is wrong. If somebody's great*100 grandfather owned a piece of land, absent some clear evidence that he or his descendants were legitimately dispossessed, most of us would view that as quite compelling that somebody was still the owner.
@@kck9742 It's not a weak argument, and not only is it a compelling one--as I mention in my original post--but it is one that would work in any courtroom in the U.S.
@@michaelanderson2881 Nice mansplaining dude, but you're writing to someone who taught English and writes. I fucking know how to read and comprehend, thanks. My point stands.
Correct. You don't see territorial apex animals arguing about indigenous rights. If you can defend your territory, it stays yours. If you can't, you lose it.
both jews an palestinian arabs descend from the ancient caananites. so they both have a historical claim. but genetically, ashkenazi jews have been found to be up to 60% european due to intermarriage during the diaspora. also, they were largely absent from the land for around 2000 years. in 1880 there were only 5,000-10,000 jews in israel and over 500,000 palestinian arabs there
The only correction I would suggest is that since Jews claim that they are descendants of Abraham who came from the land of Ur, modern day Iraq, Jews are NOT Canaanites. Jews conducted a genocide and massacred Canaanites.
Two gentlemen talking not yelling or interrupting each other, an adult conversation, so my respect to both of them.
the guy who asked question is supporting the right cause, pun intended.
People would find Middle East more peaceful without Israel
Agreed, there was NO speechless, the headline is click bait plain and simple.
Misleading title. He didnt leave him 'speechless'. He answered the question in a respectful discussion
@Aa_rush9: I absolutely agree. I hate these clickbait titles, especially when they're not even true.
No no. He definitely owned that lib with facts and logic.
@@tFighterPilot I think 'the lib' actually agreed with Shapiro - he was nodding and smiling. Did you not listen to the question? It sounded to me like the questioner was presenting a common pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel argument, he wasn't saying he agreed with it.
Wait did the guy keep talking over the next person to ask questions? Or did the person here who asked the question go ahead and sit quietly after this.
Challenge I have with Shaprio’s argument is that he’s using “moral compass” to justify land ownership and his needle is clearly fixated in one direction.
Would the world be better if the land was ruled by Israel? Depends on whether or not you ask the Palestinian farmers/home owners who have had their land taken. Depends on whether you ask the families of the innocents killed. Clearly, from their perspective that’s a hard no.
Would the world be better if the land was ruled by Hamas? Only an idiot would reply that it would. Oct 7th is just one example of atrocities in the name of fundamentalism that we cannot tolerate.
But would the world be better off if there were to be a 2 state solution, supported by democracy in which neither side murdered innocents? That has to the be the goal and the ideal we strive for.
Ask every Muslim, why are so many Muslims leaving Muslim countries?
So why was the continent of America occupied by Europeans ? What were they leaving ? 😀
@@narkelnaru2710 Many of immigrants to America were fleeing persecution or famine. The passengers of The Mayflower in 1620 were fleeing religious persecution in England.
Same reason so many jews left their country I guess.....
@@luckystarship2275
You mean chasing life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness ?
And how do those silly reasons compare with the present reasons that people want to move to America ?
@ronaldcadorette4353 Why don’t you ask why so many dual-passport European settlers are leaving their stolen homes? They’ve caused enough chaos in the area, is that it?
Why forget about indigeneity?
There are two MASSIVE pieces of archaeology that shows Israel is Jewish indigenous. It's called the Western Wall, and if that's not big enough for someone, how about that ginormous fortress from Roman times called Masada? Both are older than Islam itself by multiple centuries.
Then there’s that history book about that very Jewish bloke, Jesus .. I think then mention something about how many thousand years the Jewish were there prior to that so that’s like .. five thousand years. Then there’s that nuisance the Torah talking facts.. . How many countries have that much written evidence?
muslims tend to avoid discussing about archeology in the area. for them, choosing jihad is much easier.
He didn't say forget about indigeneity; he said it's not a proof of ownership.
@@RedSquirrelsReturn What if you don't believe the writings of the Bible and Torah? It's only "fact" if you believe it to be "fact". That's where your argument falls apart.
@@MrHowardMoonhistory and archaeology back up the bible..... what you believe is absolutely irrelevant.
A respectful exchange between these two. It was lovely to see.
That should be the norm not the exception.
There is literally TONS of archaeology showing a 3500 years of Jewish presence continually in the land of Israel. The Arabs never came into Israel until about 650 AD when they spread Islam all over the Middle East and North Africa.
Yes. It’s insane the kids today don’t have a clue
@@RichardTavilla Yeah, & WHOSE fault is that for not educating their kids in the first place?
I'm getting real sick & tired of people moaning about ignorant kids when they FAILED their job as parents.
You think kids learn from osmosis? You have to TEACH them! So stop being lazy, entitled fucks!
@@AkbarZeb-p6f and yes, you are so correct whenever I can I do I enter her 20 kids through our church but most of them down here come from conservative parents and already know. I blame the teachers in our colleges.
I see proof going back 3100-3200 years (inscriptions in Elah Fortress & Thebes), but what do you cite for the 3500 years figure?
Still a spurious argument. It doesn’t matter who was there 3000 years ago. It really does come down to Israel is a nice place to live because it’s run by Israelis and Palestine is a horrible place to live because it’s run by Palestinians.
Very impressed with the patience and respect that young man showed while Ben was giving his response
I'm very impressed that the young man was pro-Ben to begin with...
His question seemed rather neutral not siding with either Palestine or Israel.
The bar is so low that we're impressed with basic civil discourse with yoots.
Seriously .....is the world so amazing to you when someone can be quiet and let someone speak for one minute. Is that so wonderful to you? Man what have you grown up around.
BEN IS A BEACON OF SANITY AND REALITY , Long May he SHINE. 👍🇦🇺👍🇦🇺👍🇦🇺
Ben denied the illegal occupation in 1948 said it never happened.
Ben didn't condemn israel killing more than 40 thousand palestinians including children and pregnant woman.
Ben didn't explain the reason behind settlers moving to gaza for the expansion of illegal settlement for zionist.
Ben never recognized palestinians rights to obtain their land back from the occupation 70 years ago
And the list goes on
Let mehdi hassan ask him the right questions
The entire world has been occupied by different cultures and peoples for the existance of humans.
Exactly
Now the people of Gaza want's the hole Israel .
Invading or colonising other nations and eliminating their culture began to be unacceptable in the modern era . In 1939 the world was sufficiently civilised to perceive German expansion to be barbaric. Today we can't believe what russia did n is trying to do. Today you simply don't do that. .All said and done the Jewish folk in the Levant region are immigrants not colonisers. They purchased the holdings at good prices for the sellers. And subsequently obtained futher territory on account of reparations owed by the people who attacked them to inflict death and losses.
You must be an American" As where I live as British and Dutch, most I know here lived in Holland for century's. Americans have no problem with Colonialism, as seldom is their an Indian surname to be found, most are murdered by Europeans.
Yes, but now we're having to deal with self-proclaimed 'special people'.
At the end of the day, who owns what, comes down to who is strong enough to keep it
Not the settlers then, you do realise many of the dual-nationals fled to the countries of their origin, right?…mostly to Europe & the US. Recently watched an investigative video on many of them buying up property in Cyprus. The ones expected to fight for them will be the sons and daughters of US and EU taxpayers. Simply facts.
Hi
It actually comes back to the Biblical God given covenant which in it’s world redemption plan places Israel as it’s starting point of prophetic realisation= The return( After their and His 2000 exile and absence) of the Jewish Messiah King to Zion’s Holy Hill which Psalm 2 explains!
@@toosiyabrandt8676 sure. But we live in a world of free will. For example men and woman are made in the image of God. This is true always, because it is God given. And yet, men can treat women as if this is not true, they can deny them rights, respect, freedoms and property. Why can they do this? Because the men have the strength to enforce it.
@@toosiyabrandt8676 If we want peace we should be supporting and respecting both sides and attempting to gain an understanding of both Israel and the Palestinian's points of view.
@@paulcharles6897tell that to Hamas.
I have no dog in this fight but, as an outsider looking in and after learning a lot of history based on the current debate, I would say review all of history in regard to Palestinian's behavior when welcomed with open arms *ANYWHERE* they have been invited to and if that doesn't help you determine what they have got *themselves* into, you're on the wrong side of history, not this war.
I absolutely disagree with ignoring that our indigenous claims.
The reality outside of the biblical narrative is that Jews ARE an indigenous group to that region and have had the longest running presence there.
We all originated in Africa - or so they say?🤷♂ See if we can claim that back.
So what? How is indigeneity a valid claim?
Ashkenazi jews are indigenous to Europe, being a mixture of middle eastern jews and europeans. Such a long time elapsed after the exile of the jews that a new ethnic group emerged out of the rhineland region of Europe called the Ashkenazim. As such, while they have ancestors from the Levant (and Europe), they originated as a new group from Europe and are indigenous to that area. So they had NO business flooding palestine and stealing the land from the actual natives that lived there continuously for over 1000 years.
@@Kprywatne Who even cares where people's ancestors are from. If I descend from vikings it doesn't make me a viking or give me any claim to a house in Scandinavia.
yes i agree but, there are way easier, simpler, and bettert arguments like: why do the arabs need palestine so badly, they say "jerusalem is very important to arabs!!" but they made it 'important' so they could justify the expelling of the jewish people."
Ben is the best at explaining things to people! He’s the best at it and I think he needs to continue to educate people who don’t understand what they are talking about!
Targum Jerusalem, Deuteronomy 26:3 - And thou shalt come to the priest who will be appointed the chief priest in those days, and say to him, We give glory and thanks this day before the Lord thy God, that we have come into the land which the Word of the Lord did covenant unto our fathers to give us.
That was replaced 2000 years ago
You stole that from the Sumerians
I stand for Israel ! We should back Israel 💯
Palestinians must have their own land. Gaza and Westbank. Israel is a racist jewish supremacy Apartheids Nation.
Why ???!
If we want peace we should be supporting and respecting both sides and attempting to gain an understanding of both Israel and the Palestinians points of view.
@@paulcharles6897 The western world with the US at the front lets Israel be a Criminal Apartheids State. Supplying all the weapons, bombs and rockets. Blocking UN resolutions etc etc.
Then you need to back up White European peoples!
Ben is right, but the title of this video (like so many others) is misleading and honestly kind of dumb. The student is not speechless. And the student did not appear to be opposed to Ben's position as he asked the question and heard the response. As Ben clearly states, indigeneity is, at best, a weak argument that Israel belongs to the Jews. I think (as a Jew) that our cultural and historical connection to the land is a far stronger argument than our genetic linkage, and another strong argument is the one that Ben uses here, which is that the Jews should have control of their homeland for the simple reason that the Muslims are incapable of running a country or providing an acceptable minimum of human rights and freedom for all people. Israel is an absolute gem of a country, with it's history, culture, modern values, innovation, excellent health care, good schools, strong legal system, democracy, high quality of life, etc. Meanwhile, Islam seeks nothing less than global dominion-Dar al-Islam-and a desire to live in the Iron Age. The quality of life for most people in the Arab Muslim countries is awful. That should be enough to settle this dispute about who deserves to be in charge.
yes, it is dishonest. The student was speechless because he was listening respectfully.
These arguments seem to presume Jews all just showed up in Israel in 1946-7
and forcibly took land. Nothing could be further from the truth.
First, there were always some Jews there. In 1850 Jerusalem was majority Jews. Yes, Arabs outnumbered Jews in the overall territory, which was ill-defined. And yes, Jews started immigrating LEGALLY in the 19th century, and they BOUGHT land. This continued under the British. Land was never forcibly seized. Arabs are mad that Jews immigrated, even though legally. But large numbers of Arabs immigrated also, particularly under the British. When it came time to establish states, it was relevant that Arabs had never had a state there, they were simply residents like Jews and Christians under a series of foreign empires.
It's called clickbait. Modern people are hooked on controversy nowadays, so content creators need to over emphasize their titles in order to gain a large audience. Blame the younger generation.
The same argument applies to Western Europe. Would any of those countries be better off if they had more Jews than Muslims living in them? I feel sure it would be better with the former.
@@rewdwarf123 true. we never, whatever the circumstances, yelled "Death to America", or insulted people. Look around at how many hospitals in the US and Canada were made by Jews.
According to the Dept of Education’s database, $150M was donated anonymously to Yale by a donor in Guernsey. Guernsey has been called the financial center for the middle east.
So refreshing to see a student so well informed and educated.
Refreshing to see the young man listen and even possibly learn.
Absolutely correct having a palastnian state means more dictatorship more wars third world status.
That is a solid argument, that’s impossible to refute.
You stole everything from Sumerians. Disprove that
Brilliant question by that student, and very well expressed. Give that young man an A+!
I really appreciate that respectful nature of the exchange.
Thanks!
NZ should listen to this
If you mean the Maori are indigenous to NZ then you are wrong. Even they say they came from elsewhere and that there were already people here (who they killed and ate.)
@@louk6196 So the Maori solved their problem!
@@gbone7581 Too right. Food plus none left standing to complain about reparations somewhere down the line. The Europeans missed an important lesson there.
Two intelligent and respectful people having a gentle discussion about a contentious issue. If only all political discussions were like this.
The only land in the mid east that has no oil. And everyone is fighting over it.
When they got the land in 1948 I heard it's the most useless land very muddy and not a fertile land. Jewish Ingenuity made it flourish
@@OrganicLithiumFarmand the Bible says this would happen!!
@@margaretboehm4485 You happen to know the verse?
I love Ben Shapiro's common Sense practical way to look at issues we face!
The important point is that the UN voted for a 2 partition country of the Jews and Arabs. The Arabs rejected the deal for one reason only. They wanted Arab unity in the Middle East, so in 1948, 7 Arab countries attacked Israel with goal to commit genocide on the Jewish population and take over the entire land. They lost.
That's the way I read it also.
the land was the Arabs' to begin with.
@@opinionsandfaxc By more than 1,000 years, “Israel” predates “Palestine.” The land then became home primarily to an Arab population, again for more than a millennium. Both Jews and Arabs thus have a legitimate claim to the land. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has seen myriad wrongs and brutalities on both sides.Jul 6, 2021
@@opinionsandfaxcbased on what……certainly not historically accurate.
They got thier arses KICKED!!!
Israel didn't even have a standing Army, nothing special for weapons and I think The Flying Tigers of WW2,an American Squadron famous for fighting the Japanese out of China came and helped them out. My point is that Israel shouldn't have been victorious in any of the wars in the 40's, 60's and 70's. Always outnumbered and outgunned. God perhaps? I believe so but one other thing. The US War College doesn't teach Israeli Tactics because they shouldn't be winning these Battles because it's IMPOSSIBLE. Lol.
I Love Israel.
God's Chosen People.
🇨🇦👍🍻
אין מצב!!!
בדיוק היום חשבתי על השאלה הזאת וחשבתי בדיוק על התשובה של בן!!
אשרי שזכיתי לכוון... ואשרינו שזכינו לבן שפירו!
לחיות במדינת ישראל המדהימהההה 🥰🥰🥰
By that argument, if a person thought that Gaza would look better if occupied by the French ( for example) then the French ought to have it.
That's not exactly the argument. The argument, as I understand it, is: "There are two sides in a land dispute (let's disregard the religious aspect for now). Both sides have seemingly compelling arguments as to why the land is theirs. Instead of cherry picking the arguments you like from the side you like and ignoring the other (like 99% of the internet is doing), let's assume for a moment that both sides are equally compelling in their argument. Who do you want to win? Which would you prefer to rule there? Not who is correct in some historical sense, but what world would you prefer to live in? One where side A wins, or one where side B?".
Wrong. The point is between Israel and the Arabs....sorry it didn't get that.
Israel was given to Satanist atheists by God, is the story
If I was a Palestinian i still would rather to live in Tel Aviv than in Gaza it’s looks a 100 times better lol
@@MadaraUchihaSecondRikudo What do such preferences have to do with international law?
At least the kid was polite and actually listened to Ben's response.
Refreshing. He was also dressed appropriately, listened politely and responded respectfully.
I think the student was friendly to his argument. You should change the title if you're going to have him in the thumbnail.
Ben, you were you are, you will be great forever thank you.
Lol.
Silly little simp 😆
The answer is God gave the land to descendants of Abraham. Whenever Israelis are governing this land it is prosperous and peaceful. The Jews know how to prosper and have turned a wilderness into fruitful fields.
The answer includes that 'god' then sent the Assyrians, Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Ottomans, and Hitler...
GOD Almighty the creator of the universe owns the land and it was HIS prerogative to give to the Israelites. When can the world accept it???????
@@rogerjohnson2562 Yes He did allow those things to discipline Israel because of disobedience but the land has always belonged to Israel. When we disobey, God withdraws His protection and Satan is the one who is behind any persecution because he has always hated the people of God.
@@johnpeter3516 You would have thought he would have given them a better spot!
@@gbone7581 That was HIS choice. No one can argue about it.
What the problem. The winner takes all
It's also a misdirect that Native Americans are the first indigenous people of North America/USA. From what point in history do we measure indigenaeity?
Ive been saying this exact sentiment for years. Israel exhibits tolerance, far far more than its counterparts
They are tolerant of their convicted terrorists in government, sure.
It's such a stupid remark, I won't even bother to comment.
You didn't mention their intrinsic 'victim' and 'most moral' status. 😂
@@cirrus1964. What do you find foolish about it? In which country/area are women full citizens under the law, regardless of their religion? In which area can alternative lifestyles be lived openly? In which area can citizens voice their political grievances without being silenced by force?
@@MichaelDropp-v4i and how many other counties have repeatedly given up parts of their country in the name of peace?
God gave us this beautiful world and it is up to us to keep it nice. No one is worthy of the land if they cannot do this.
I'm an Israeli and Israel is the only country in the world in which I feel comfortable as a secular Jew. Speaking of Jew, it should be noted that Jews have "only" been around for 2500 years, since the Babylonian exile. Abraham was a Hebrew and King David was a member of the tribe of Judah, part of the children of Israel, Jacob. In my opinion, our survival is credited to our ability to adjust and modify in accordance with new realities in this, sometimes, very cruel world.
Your survival is credited to the usa .. full stop
When non-secular Jews, with their birth rate, overtake the seculars in number, israel might become the country where you are least comfortable as a secular Jew.
I am glad your channel is growing.
He asked a very good question.
I refuse ANY question that frames itself as either/or , Since NEITHER is also an option .
Ancestry is not an external argument, as Ben explains.
It is the story/connection we tell ourselves.
But, the Jews that came before 1948 bought the land. No one took it by force.
Also, most of the so-called Palestinian are mostly migrants from neighbouring Arabs countries.
His argument was the entire justification behind colonization.
Very succinctly put!
Congratulations on finding possibly the shortest way say the Truth!
So if a nation uses apartheid but is prosperous then it's ok?
Indigenaity: Ben points out that canaanites were there before Abraham.
ok, so if you live in the US, are you prepared to give your home back to the Native Americans who occupied the land 2-3 centuries ago? If not, keep your hypocrisy to yourself.
Apartheid in South Africa: Bad. Apartheid in Israel: Good.
LOL, did you read the Bible, Abraham is Canaanite before God separate him from his tribe
@@lnnn4351true
Apartheid in Israel: nonexistent.
I was there about a year ago. The land is so rich in history. It so modern, especially in Tel Aviv. Love the trip and God bless Israel.
Why do they make exemptions for Jews who are Indigenous and not for other people.
Indigenous to Khazaria
@@TavistockLiesBrainwashing Very wrong, very wrong. Moreover, the land was kind of empty mid 19's century. This is when Jews started to go there and buy land. And they generated economic growth, attracting Arabs from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon...who became today's Palestinians for the major part
@@theokatcha6026
Pack of lies.
Tell your pal, Lucifer.
Jews are the only ones who welcome those of different bloodline.
@theokatcha6026 attracting arabs after the Jews went in !!
Have u ever heard of the city of jaffa which was inhabited by arabs and their leader was ahmed pasha elgazzar who resisted and defeated napoleon's siege on the city
And ur saying it was an empty land before the Jews came in yeah right
To me, there is no question. Of course, I live here and see the truth on a daily basis.
Every student has the smirking "I'm clever" while they are anything BUT and the ever present SMIRK. But at least this lad said thank you or didn't try to drown out what he said as the maniacs do
I feel like he was a huge Ben fan and was delighted with opp. to step up to the mic.
So now people can't even smile during a polite conversation without being judged by random people on the internet...
You could say that every region on Earth has been 'conquered' by one group or another and therefor none of them have a rightful claim.
God bless Israel!
God bless the Palestinians
they were expelled twice for less godlessness than they are exhibiting now
@@samsungtablet5744God bless us all.
The closest descendants of the Canaanites who the Jews ran out of Jerusalem are living in Southern Lebanon today.
My support of Israel is not based upon anything that the UN or any other antisemitic person, country or body declares. It is based upon the promise that God made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. This world and our universe as declared and written in the Genesis account was made by the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and it is His to give to the promise He made to them. Though those of the Jewish faith may dispute who the Messiah is, the nation of Israel has ever right to be on the land that was given to them by God. Those who want to take what is rightfully Israel's have been cursed and will not succeed and those who support Israel share in the blessing of what is Israel's. The one's who are wrongfully in possession of the land that should be Israel's are those who are trying to take what is God's. They will fail. Pray for the peace of Israel. Pray for the peace in Jerusalem.
If you want to Know more about Canaanite's Please come to Kerala, India. Along with the Jewish settlements Christianity also flourished from AD 72. The oldest Christian community known as Nasrani. Syrian Christian from Canan came here around AD 325. Almost 300 families came and settled here. They now known as Knanaya Christians🙏
The original question: should indigeneity be used as an argument for occupation of a land, and if so, how far should we go back?
Ben's answer: no. rather we should ask, who can do a better job of running the place today?
Biblical answer: Jews are not indigenous to Israel. It is theirs because God, who created the whole world and is the rightful owner of all of it gave it to them.
Did he provide a deed? That would sure settle it once and for all
@@bobabooey7088yes, God did in the First Chapter of Joshua.
God doesn't exist. And you can't prove otherwise. You stole your religion from the Sumerians. Just stories. You have no proof. Just lies
God's soon coming Son will permanently settle the issue of whose land it is.
Remember God owns All the land and lends it to others to steward.
At some distant point, He Will destroy the earth, sun, moon and stars. Everything is made by God, so He alone controls what happens to it or stewards it any given point.
Ask Spanish diplomats
Their government told them to go and live in Ramallah instead of Tel Aviv . They refused !
Did you laugh as hard as I did when I read that? And remember, that was after Spain recognized Palestine.
When you speak the truth it is easy to comprehend. Thanks 🙏
Ben always brings it home. He's the best.
At debating kids. I'm yet to see him debate worthy scholar.
@@oumchar They could show up at these events just like the kids do. Why don't they?
@@oumchar You yourself don't even know what a "worthy scholar" is. So, how could a dope comprehend Ben's debating skills....putting aside he is famous and invited to debates everywhere. You too, if known, would be very famous.....as a dope.
@@oumchar He’s debated many adult political adversaries. Do a search.
Visiting colleges is a great way to influence young people while they’re developing political opinions and identity.
@@oumchar he has... lol. plus, there are plenty of college students who can actually debate at a very high level. we just don't see it as often as we see idiots on youtube
They all need to learn how to get along in that region. All of the fighting isn't doing anyone any good.
No one's holdling hands and singing Kumbaya, sorry dude. The fact is that the "Palestinians" (really "Arabs") don't want peace or a two-state solution. They want Israel and Jews to not exist. How do you "get along" with that?
And yet, half of their diaspora lives elsewhere, rootless, and absolutely insisting on behaving in the exact same ways that led to previous expulsions
which side are you talking about?
America goes through this same complaint also. Native Americans and Mexicans often complain about "stolen land". Hawaii is a good example. There are no "indigenous" people because the islands were formed from undersea volcanoes. The first inhabitants of the islands were exterminated by the "Polynesians" that invaded, and to this day we refer to the "Polynesian invaders" as native Hawaiians. The Black Hills is another example. White Europeans took the land by conquest, which had determined the ownership of land since the beginning of time. White Europeans took the land from the Sioux. The Sioux took the land from, I believe it was the Cheyenne. In the discussions, the Sioux were asked if they got the Black Hills returned to them, would they, in turn return it to the Cheyenne, since they "stole" the land from the Cheyenne? The Sioux responded and said that they would not return the land to the Cheyenne - that it belonged to them by right of conquest... The hypocrisy just never ends. I guess it's only considered "stolen land" when it was conquered by white Europeans.
The fact Arabs complain about the 1947 Nakba is a disgrace. They invaded Israel with six Arab armies, their intent was to murder every Jew in sight and take all the land back. They lost and claim to be victims? how the hell does that work?
Admonishing Israel for always having superior armed forces does not justify their argument against.
That's bcz israel invaded and in complicit with the actual occupation crime from the start ya fool.
Read your history instead of gas lighting punk
"murder every jew in sight and take all the land BACK"..."take all the land BACK" implies the ISRAELIS STOLE the land as you can't take it back unless you had it before so either way they are victims? get it?
How the hell does that work? Well, follow the international law. As simple as that! Land occupied by force does not belong to you.
@@mylist4039 International law? That land was given to the the Jews by the UK who lawfully owned it. Most was given to Arabs who still wanted more. Palestinians didn't even call themselves Palestinians til the 1960s, which by the way is a greek word.
If you really think about it, nobody can lay claim to ownership of land. Unless you can prove that anyone person created the land we all walk upon, the water we drink and the air we breathe, then no can lay claim. Some may think God created the land we all enjoy. Those who believe so, should write to God and get written permission to transfer the ownership of land to them.
You think you own the land that my house is on? You wanna come to my house and try to take it from me?
God bless Israel peace for Jerusalem love from Pakistan pastor Joshua
The Same people in the same land, that practiced the same religion in a country that has the same Name as 3000 years ago. It Doesn't get more indigenous then that!
Love Ben Shapiro
Actually seems like a very respectful young man
Whomever controls rhe land now and has the strength to keep it...THAT IS THE RIGHFUL OWNER
Thank you for bringing facts.
We stand with Israel 🇺🇸 🇮🇱
well i would like to apply that to India and Canada. would India be better off if it were still under British control? would Canada be better off if it became part of the United States? my answer to both questions is a definite Yes
Nobody should even doubt it.
they are both intelligent people, Ben and the student! how refreshing.
You could really go a step further and not limit your opponent to choosing between Gaza or the West Bank, but ask them whether they'd like to live in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, or Egypt. Israel is a much better place to live and work than all of the surrounding countries.
Lebanon used to be a prosperous Christian country until you know who went there and destroyed it
Lebanon used to be a prosperous Christian country until you know who went there and destroyed it
The question is willingly tricky because is not if the world prefers "gaza under hamas" because I think it would be as worse as "israel under the current killer-addict". What would you prefer a free palestinian people doing their stuff or free jewish doing their stuff?
People are very uneducated about the whole Israel land issue, actually so unnecessary they just need to read the Bible
Don’t you notice that no matter what and how much Ben Shapiro and others explain Israel, it doesn’t help? I am certain that NO ONE changed their minds after listening to those debates
People that refuse to listen and learn. THey have other motives.
Excellent response Ben!!!
I love how he sneaks in the comment about no one at Yale suggesting they give Yale's land back to Native Americans.
Israel, Gaza, Judea-Sumeria = Jewish Lands. NOT Arab Islamist Colonialist. There was no Nakba!
Go back to school
What there was, was a perfectly legal expulsion of Arabs who engaged in a war of annihilation against Israel in 1948. Not long after, the entire Arab world expelled 99.9% of their Jews who had been there for 2000 years, even though they had done nothing. About 850,000 Jews. Right of return!
Muslims were basically jews before so why not allow them to live there since it's their right as you claim.
All abrahamic religions have claim not just jews
@@F.khoury
Then why dont Jews have "claim" to Saudi Arabia, Mecca and Medina?
Possession is 9/10ths of the law. Battles have been fought, lives have been lost, to the winner go the spoils.
You learned to think from Putin?
History books.
No one left anyone 'speechless'. Thumbs down.
Ben is wrong. If somebody's great*100 grandfather owned a piece of land, absent some clear evidence that he or his descendants were legitimately dispossessed, most of us would view that as quite compelling that somebody was still the owner.
He's NOT wrong. It's a WEAK argument and he explains why.
@@kck9742 It's not a weak argument, and not only is it a compelling one--as I mention in my original post--but it is one that would work in any courtroom in the U.S.
@@michaelanderson2881 Yes, it really is weak. "My 8 times great grandparents lived here!" "So did mine!" Ben has a much better argument.
@@kck9742 "Owned a piece of land." Not "I lived here". READ--and comprehend.
@@michaelanderson2881 Nice mansplaining dude, but you're writing to someone who taught English and writes. I fucking know how to read and comprehend, thanks. My point stands.
I can't imagine Jerusalem without Jews.
A DNA test should clear it up.
Arrogance does not equal intelligence
who was being arrogant? The pro-Ben student pitched a softball knowing and agreeing with the answer...
People of all Races and Religions forget a fundamental truth. We are all one. Let's not let history divide us.
In the real world the land, anywhere, belongs to those who can physically, by force defend the land
Correct. You don't see territorial apex animals arguing about indigenous rights. If you can defend your territory, it stays yours. If you can't, you lose it.
@@FourT6and22 Yes...provided you are a wild animal.
You are one Sick Puppy.
he is always debating children...he debated an english conserative and left having a hisse fit!
You are a Turk from Khazaria.
Birobidjan is your home.
Well said! We should all support a middle east without the plague of illegal colonialism and occupation! With a fair chance for self determination!
Nothing worse than smug know-it-all college students.
I'm sort of thinking the student looked for the response that Ben S. provided. He wanted that exact response, and was not smug, but clever.
That student was a plant!
kid wasn't smug. this is probably one of the better examples of how to approach a debate with someone notable like Ben. he did great
The college students that are smug (this one was NOT) grow up to post comments like this OP.
both jews an palestinian arabs descend from the ancient caananites. so they both have a historical claim. but genetically, ashkenazi jews have been found to be up to 60% european due to intermarriage during the diaspora. also, they were largely absent from the land for around 2000 years. in 1880 there were only 5,000-10,000 jews in israel and over 500,000 palestinian arabs there
The only correction I would suggest is that since Jews claim that they are descendants of Abraham who came from the land of Ur, modern day Iraq, Jews are NOT Canaanites. Jews conducted a genocide and massacred Canaanites.
Well said, Mr. Shaperio
It was the land chosen by GOD for HIS chosen people..
Why am I being taxed for Israel.
What are you talking about?
Thank you Ben as always
From Oregon...i support Israel!!!❤
He says Israeli Arabs don’t wanna go to the West Bank, but looks like a lot of Jews wanna go to the West Bank!