The Battle of Towton | Was It Really the Bloodiest in English History?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- The Battle of Towton in 1461 has long held the distinction of being the largest and bloodiest battle on English soil. A decisive moment in the Wars of the Roses, it saw the Yorkist Edward IV defeat his Lancastrian rival Henry VI and claim the English throne. But are claims that the number of deaths exceeded 28,000 exaggerated? What really happened when the fleeing Lancastrians found themselves trapped in the 'Bloody Meadow'?
In this two-part series, medieval historian Matt Lewis is turning battlefield detective to find out what really happened on that fateful day. In the first episode, he joins Chris Berendt, Chairman of the Towton Battlefield Society, to walk the site of the battle and learn about the key tactical decisions that swung the result. We use animated maps of the battlefield to show you exactly how the fighting unfolded.
In the second episode, Matt gets a taste of what the battle was like for an ordinary soldier. He gets up close with the real victims of Towton, analysing terrifying wounds on skeletons found in a mass grave on the battlefield, and handling some of the medieval weapons used on the day.
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Hey guys, Part Two is now available here: th-cam.com/video/karKmvUbAdg/w-d-xo.html
Did a reenactment at Towton once and camped on the battlefield for the night as part of it. The place has a very strange , sad atmosphere around it.. even now.
Did you see a ghost 👻
That's not uncommon. I do American civil war reenactments and we often camp near the actual battlefields. When alone in your tent at night you get a sense that you are not alone.
Same here was on excise with the military had some strange feelings at night in that area.
I visited the battlesite 15 years back and it is a very exposed, bleak plateau. Must have been a bitter in temperature and combat...like all civil wars. Imagine getting whacked by a warhammer...ooof...bad enough banging your fingers on something when they are cold. Just a note to anyone who wants to visit: you cannot park anywhere along the road that goes through the site...all double yellow lines. Keep a lookout for the stone cross and pull in there , easy to miss.
@@spanishpeaches2930 true that. was deslote when i was there. Park in saxton or towton and be sure to pop into the crooked billet pub.
One of my 17th great grandfathers, Lionel de Welles, was killed at Towton. He was a Lancastrian, in fact, his wife at the time of the battle was the mother of Margaret Beaufort. His son and son-in-law led the Welles Uprising against Edward IV in 1470 and were executed for it.
That's awsome history!
Yeah, I lost a few at this one.. but not as many as at Flodden... about 28 anceatoes dead on 9/11/1513 at last count!
Civil war is always vicious as it's personal!
That's fascinating stuff, I must check if my ancestors are as illustrious!
sure...
I've visited the Towton battlefield many times over the past 40 years. It always has a unique 'atmosphere'.
I will *never* not be grateful I was born in the modern age! Imagine being "raised" away from your farm and family, from everything and everyone you know, to wield a pike in a frozen field against your neighbour, for a King that considers you peasant chattle 😪
Incredible stuff
Imagine being in the trenches at Bakhmut?
Under a Russian artillery barrage????
@@blaircalvin5025 Yep nothing really changes.
As a small person in a certain comedy show said, "I know my place"!
Swings and roundabouts. They never knew the constant fear of airstrikes, artillery and snipers 24/7 for weeks at a time. The 'luxury' of being either in battle or not is denied to soldiers of the modern era - and hand to hand fighting (with bayonets) is still very much a thing.
I think it comes down to expectations - their kind of warfare was what they were conditioned to expect, ours it what we're conditioned for, and each would be just as much out of their comfort zone in any era but their own.
Much more natural to fight sword and shield than drive down a road and get your legs blown off with an IED or shot in the gut from half a mile away
I re enacted this era of history, this and Tewkesbury are by far huge battles that so many don't know of today, fighting in armour in the summer when it's 30 Celsius is enough for me to realise how hard it must have been I can't imagine doing it in a snow storm
Wasn’t that pretty much the weather at Tewkesbury? Ridiculously hot? One thing about the key Wars of the Roses battles that always stands out to me is just how terrible the weather was for pretty much all of them in one way or another…
Weather could have been bad. I guess the padding and and exercise of swinging a war hammer let alone the fear of death would warm one up right ?
All my family live der i don't know why it ant home. Its alien land
I’m American but British history fascinates me. The wars of the Roses in Particular. It amazes me that Brits can go visit Battlefields and Buildings from the Middle Ages. The Oldest buildings I have visited was from the 18th Century.
Worth mentioning that Long before The War of the Roses, The Towton Battlefield was a part of the Brigante's Frontline against the Romans and the Kingdom of Elmet's Frontline against the Anglo Saxons.
Anything else you would like to elaborate on or expound theories about, well, let's hear it. We all need a fresh perspective. Through imagination, we may break through orthodox ways of see/reading the same things. Let's look at some possibilities that will, suddenly, make disparate data suddenly cohere into an imaginable reality.
@@alancoe1002 Morning Alan, Aye I get most of my Info on the Brigantes Fortifications from the Old Kingdom of Elmet PDF :- TheOldKingdomofElmet_10125688.pdf
I've walked many of the routes he did over the last 30 years years and find very little to argue with his observations, Get in touch if you fancy a walk & talk over the summer :)
Must of been absolutely horrific fighting in those times, hand to hand with bladed weapons. Big respect to both sides.
long, sharpened pieces of metal transcend time. Extremely simple, extremely effective. Probably 2nd only to clubs or rocks
War was, is, and ever shall be; people poking holes in other people
At least at towton men got cut up in their vital parts; cuz thats all they could force a blade to; imagine how the fighting must have looked when Hannibal slaughtered 50,000 Romans at Cannae; not to mention losing 6,000 of his own me. 56,000 men all killed on a hillside by means of sword spear axe and club. Through basically fabric, iron, or whatever bronze acoutrements they wore. Vicious
@@KingGayCockroach The English were also fighting in the freezing snow
@@Tls1133
Transcending time indeed...
My nana told me about how my Great Uncle was invalided out of the Great War in 1916 following a raid on a German observation trench during which he was beaten over the head with a club reminiscent of a medieval mace. His foe was himself slashed repeatedly about the face and neck with a sharpened entrenching tool wielded by another of my Uncle's platoon, saving his life, and leaving the German boy in how he'd described "a sorry old state..."
War is Hell.
This was so well done. Thank you very much to all involved.
And thank fully no Dan Snow!
Thank you. This is one of my favourite times in English history - thank you Dan Jones!! All battles must be terrifying, but Towton seems particularly brutal
Excellent production. Many thanks!
Wonderfully put together thank you
This seems like a great way to start my Sunday morning.
Thanks!
Very interesting and informative. Thank you
Love this channel, thank you!
Excellent documentary... well done!
I've cycled with friends to Towton Moor a few times, there is (or was) a monument to the battle by the roadside, and a small church where some of the dead leaders were taken. We stopped for lunch and a few beers at The Crooked Billet pub. As we pedalled over the hill Trevor (RIP) would shout out "Damn thee Towton Moor".
Beautiful pub.i use to get the giant Yorkshire pudding and roast beef amazing food .I love it Towton for few years
Wonderful! You look great, Matt, and this is your cup of tea; it suits you. Thanks so much for your scholarship.
I remember when The History Channel once told these. This is well done
I love that there's so much significant history right on my doorstep.
History by all states of records is all we have to work with, really enjoy these video's.
Very good presentation, I loved the graphics.
Thanks a lot!
Great channel,one of the best on you tube
Very interesting, thank you.
Love your work 👍
What’s amazing is the beck is a tiny little river today, I was working on its banks a few years back and my dog was playing in it, it was like a small ditch.
I suspect winter rains put many rivers in flood
Fauconberg was the outstanding strategist for the Yorkists. John Neville was also a key commander. The Lancastrian commanders don't seem to have been as competent. And of course Edward IV was an outstanding warrior: 6'4 tall hugely skilled and at arms.
Just curious, where did you learn about who were the best military minds on each side? I've read a few books on the War of the Roses, just narrative histories from Dan Jones and the like nothing academic, but can't remember any of them going into who was the most competent. Obviously they mentioned the major names like Edward and Richard who were good fighters and commanders, so I'm curious if there is anything you can recommend that goes into greater detail as to why the men you listed were considered to be the best military minds. Cheers!
Fauconburg got the high ground early.and probably caught Clifford at Dinting Dale and wiped him out. Edward wisely told Norfolk to drop the baggage train and come in haste. This was the dislocating surprise on the Lancastrian left, that was the cause of victory. The retreat caused the extremely high Lancastrian casualties.
Totally agree. His decisions, and Fauconberg's actions, won Towton.
He was only 18 years old at the time?
I'm sure both armies would've know the river was there, nearest water source and all that.. horses and men need a water source! Great video though.. a truly fascinating battle that never fails to spark the imagination of what it was like..to see all those men and horses, to have felt the cold sting of the wind blown snow in your face, then the arrows fly.. truly brutal and bloody. 563 years ago this March 29th. What incredible history we have, albeit fighting and bloodshed most of the time!
A bridge of bodies is such a chilling thought
Fighting hand to hand with bladed weapons takes guts on a level that is hard to comprehend. I’ve seen demonstrations of such weapons on animal carcasses. The wounds that they inflict is horrifying.
In a gunfight, you rarely see your death coming. In melee, you have at least seconds of comprehension to realize you're done for, and based on the multiple hits on the skeletons, for some it was minutes.
Even basic armor at the time gave quite good protection against cuts
I used to work with animals, mostly goats. Part of the job was ending them. I've also got some basic hunting experience, so I've uses firearms to take the lives but I've also used blades. There's something horrifically different when using a bladed instrument. It's up close and personal. You physically feel the resistance. It's very different. I can't imagine the horror of being trapped in a field, having to stab people over and over again for hours. Hell on earth.
Haven't been able to find Part 2 yet. Well done Part 1, to be sure!
coming 6pm tonight!
Informative. Horrific day for all. May sound silly but can’t help wondering if any of my ancestors were there (never know). I’m 🇨🇦 but my grandfather and by extension his family came from Lancashire (Blackburn).
Great content - the numbers are so small during that time but by percentage huge and creating a nation.
Edward the IV seemed like a weak minded individual.
England was already a nation from at least the early middle ages.
There’s just nothing like the excellence of History Hit!!!
Local legend plus Edmund Bog I think, has it that the Yorkists losed their arrows with the snow behind them. Then the took 2 paces back and waited for the return volley. The Lancastrians, firing blindly into the snow, their arrows fell short and were of little use. Then the Yorkists stepped forward again, noted the angle of the Lancastrian arrows that had landed in the ground, and let lose another volley. Then again stepped back.
Don't forget, after stepping forward to fire their return volley, they even used the Lancastrians own arrows during the return volleys bout. A sad, demoralizing fight for one side. Yet the Yorkists gaining a huge moral boost from the knowledge of the irony of their enemies deaths being delivered by there own hands.
Been shooting longbow since I was 2, and am federally trained in ballistics.
In no universe would taking two paces back put you out of range.
If you fire the bow, exactly the same each time, it will shoot shorter the 2nd and 3rd time because internal friction is heating up the bow. Combine that with the fact that simply drawing the arrow half an inch further back that the first, or twisting the string a little before you release can make for 50 yards difference.
Finally, the archers are not in a single rank. If everyone shoots exactly 100 meters, then the archers in the front will shoot 100 meters from the front rank, and the archers four feet behind them will shoot 96 yards from the front rank, and the rank behind them will shoot 88 yards.
In order for everyone to be in range, even as little at 4 ranks deep, they'd need to advance the entire depth of the platoon, and then retreat the same.
And unlike this example, an English longbow can shoot 300+ yards, and in no universe would they all shoot the exact same.
IMHO,TLDR: there is absolutely no validity to that story.
@@Ranstone 2?
Shortest answer to spare you: no. End of winter battle done in haste by Edward IV at speed through country already passed twice by the Lancastrians. They would have to bring fodder and ale and food, for the area was foraged out. Edward probably had no artillery, but logistics rule against the titanic battle that wasn't. Towton's size is legend based on one letter by the Kingmaker's bishop brother to a papal ⚖ that's it. It was a very important high casualty battle, but probably fewer troops than at Bosworth. Alway look at the time of year and the logistical restrictions thereof.
My thanks to Matt Lewis and Chris Barendt for challenging the standard exaggerated numbers.
The actual commander of Norfolk's troops was John Howard, Norfolk's cousin, who would eventually be made Duke of Norfolk by Richard III. Howard received a message from Edward to leave the baggage train behind and to race up the Great North Road as quickly as possible, so less of an accident than first appears. Thank you. Cheers to you all.
Much as i tend to agree with you regarding the exaggerated numbers, you seem to have a real bee in your bonnet over it...
It comes and goes. The newer battlefield surveys, for example Bosworth and Towton have changed quite a bit of what we accepted from chronicles of old.
I've probably spent way more time on the bottomless pit that is the Battle of Gettysburg. A break from work. At least I didn't go into politics.
What attracts knights in shining armor even more than damsels in distress?
Magnets
I've been fascinated with the Wars of the Roses and the Battle of Towton and the Battle of Bosworth Field since I was a small lad. I had ancestors at both engagements.
I detected on here many years ago, the atmosphere is so eerie especially when the weather is bad , you can almost feel and smell what happened that day 😢
very nicely done! part two not yet uploaded I guess?
coming 6pm tonight!
@@HistoryHit yay!!!
Let's all make sure that we've had our dinner before Part The Second then! Nice one team. ⚔️❤️🤣🌟👍
a very atmospheric place, always eerily quiet, regardless of any passing traffic.
Am I the only one who noticed it looks like Matt has a Dark Angels logo from 40K on his jacket pocket? An excellent documentary about a time most of my fellows in the US don't tend to learn about.
Duke of Norfolk: "Sorry I'm everyone! Anything I can do?"
Everyone: "Attack the flank!...no!...the flank!!!"
Those men who died trying to escape the rout,it really must have been truly terrifying . Never mind general plate armour,once their gambesons underneath were wet, they literally must have been 'dead weights'.
C est une grande bataille qui a fini en une grande boucherie pour beaucoup de soldats ...
Voir le champ de bataille en vrai doit surement creer un coup au coeur
🏴 SUNDERLAND AFC ⚽⚽
The Chairman of the Battlefield society is brilliantly articulate. The graphics are very good to show the army movements & the weather that day, but stop short of showing the river which played a key role. The camera flattens the landscape a bit. Even if the numbers are exaggerated and so it was half that claimed, 50,000 men hacked to death 14,000 on a cold snowy windy evening as the sun went down.
I've just subscribed to History Hit, best money I've spent in a while. Excellently done team, its sobering to think of the brutality that occurred on that field
I saw a " Secrets of the Dead " episode called "Blood Red Roses" about Towton the facial forensics team reconstructed a skull and on that skull was a previous wound on his bottom jaw it came from a sword or full on Axe attack right on the bone ,he survived that attack from a previous battle but he died at Towton , nobody knows which side he fought for , a great documentary to watch about this battle.
While I certainly appreciate a historic battleground left close to it’s original state, I’m surprised there aren’t at least a few markers. For example on the hill with the tree, the flank attack location, or the killing field slope. I mean like a plaque on a stack of stones.
There definitely should be orientation boards, like there are at bosworth and Naseby.
The tree was planted there intentionally to mark the location of the battle I’ve been told
Really don’t understand your comment. I went last year and there were several helpful boards explaining everything that this video covers, with detailed maps and tactics. Suggest you go and look! My wife and I carried out a full tour of the battlefield, following the maps and spent over two hours there. Most instructive and rewarding.
My 16th great grandfather was Lionel De Welles was born in 1406 in Well, Lincolnshire, the son of Maud and Eudo. He had four children with Joan Cicely De Waterton and one child with Cecily Fleming. He died on 29 March 1461 in Towton, Yorkshire, at the age of 55.
Even by the Napoleonic wars battles are won / loss with 10% losses. This being bloodier still would find the retreating would've lost more running off and being cut down by Cavalry when morale drops. A lot more of the wounded die from injuries over the next few days by infection and blood loss. But still 28,000 is too many
Don't forget the weather. Even if you had got across the river, imagine being soaked through with icy water
and then enduring snow and wind. I would have thought a lot died through hypothermia.
Q: How do you solve medieval wars?
A: Marriage between royal families.
So little beauty.
So much Suffering!
The wounds on the skeletons are grim testimony to this.
There was a lot of trouble happening at that place and many people suffered ... hope they were ok at the end
More men hacked to death or killed by arrows in one short day than at the battle of Gettysburg which lasted much longer.
Pretty crazy when you consider the disparity of both the weapons used and the scale of action in these two battles
At the Battle of Antietam there were 25'000 casualties in one day. Although the weapons changed the carnage did not.
@@bridgetofold5645 Antietam, or Sharpsburg as the Rebels called it, was America's bloodiest day.
@@unbearifiedbear1885 Imagine what carnage 500 longbowman would have wrought in a American Civil war battle. Loosing arrows at a range far longer than the muskets of the day.
@Uisdean
Takes half an hour to learn how to fire a gun as against years to develop the lopsided physique to loose a longbow 😑
My concern relative to the total numbers quoted in many battles of this era is the numbers involved. If you consider the landscape occupation of say 50,000 times twice, men all armed from a fairly small population. Could this number include camp followers of women and children who would be adrift of the battlefield? A number such as 50,000 of any item, men horses and armaments is huge concerning the actuality of accounting and reporting of such a period. The advance of the archers is interesting for what is the capacity of an advancing archer to carry arrows onto advanced battle position, 25 say or 50?
I have no doubt the concourse of the battle was as bloody as described but if you think that today we have more horses in Britain than in Victorian times according to some computations one can see the difficulties in accommodating many of our historical numbers especially in in medieval periods. If we divide the numbers by ten and look at the availability recoverable archeological evidence would we be nearer the truth. Above all how do you feed that many people en mass in a medieval winter when most bar breeding stock has been killed and harvest is becoming a distant memory?
As is suggested in interview the numbers compounded could well be to make a conqueror more kingly so should we be quoting these numbers so freely? I am not discounting the act or fact or dreadful conditions but wonder in these days of factual propriety why we still rush to school book numbers?
I agree with a lot of what you say Glyn, given the population of Britain at the time the numbers often quoted for participants and casualties seem extremely unlikely. I'm surprised there have not been more archaelogical surveys done in the Beck itself for concentrations of metal, bone fragments etc. The battle was a key moment in the War of the Roses thats for sure regardless of the actual numbers involved in it. So many key battles seem to have occured around York. Stamford Bridge & Marston Moor spring immediately to mind.
@@tomjohnson6810 I suggest that the Vale of York was supplanting my own area of Norfolk about this time as the most important area of England outside of London. It controlled the route north and south and the Northern counties held considerable military sway. Military excursions seemed to relate to reinforcements from the border marches north and west with some involvement from the south west. There were few east west routes and travel today still reflects that aspect of medieval history.
Was just there today.
One thing to kill your enemy at a distance, but close combat? I can’t imagine the injuries, the tales of rivers of blood after a battle is not far from the truth.
To say:”it was a bloodbath” is the least off it
Part two, chop chop
Here in the US I have visited several sites of the horrific civil war fought here 150-ish years ago. At a number of sites the battlefields remains relatively undisturbed, serving as memorials. At the dawn of industrial scale warfare and fought with particular vehemence, the death toll of the US civil war was truly horrific. While I personally am by no means 'spiritual,' standing on the battlefields of Gettysburg or Vicksburg at sunset, I defy anyone to not feel the presence of those who died there. It is truly a haunting experience.
more Americans died in the Civil War than in all other wars combined
I’ve been to Bosworth Battlefield a few times and there is definitely a feeling.
I think it’s often why places like castles have certain feelings about them. All the history it has seen and a lot of it brutal.
@@kimberleysmith818 I have not been to the UK but I'm certain you have your share of 'ghosts.' Respect for history has preserved many places that in the US would have been paved over.
For A time I lived in Italy. Travelling there and in Greece I visited many places where history felt real and present. Such places are more rare in the US and too often defaced or destroyed.
I think the Scottish loses at Flodden (1513) were comparable in terms of numbers of dead …
Tragic!!
Sir Henry Percy, 3rd Earl of Northumberland, my 15 x grandfather, died in the battle of Towton
They allude to a follow up program about the weapons & injuries but there is no video I can find?
Anyone know anything?
coming 6pm tonight!
@@HistoryHit
Thank you! 👍
Apparently, the dead are still there.
There is a video of "spirit box" use at this battlefield, at night. The 'replies' given by the dead are astonishing.
I'm a sceptic, but even I was convinced. Looked for that YT video, but cannot find it. 😕
Throughout history its quite staggering how many 'ordinary' people died because one individual wanted to be king. Their arrogance is astounding. In England alone, there were hundreds of small and large battles all over the country almost all the time. The War of the Roses, the Barons wars, Hastings, the Vikings, Romans, Anglo Saxons, French. I'm surprised there are any people left today.
Sad to consider that fellow Englishmen were slaughtering each other like this less than half a century after the glory of Agincourt.
Considering the amount of Camp Followers then I can easily accept the Higher Casualty Estimates if the Non Combatants are included and the Lower Estimates as also being Accurate, If they were just counting Combatants. The Cock Beck has seen several High Casualty Battles, Could even call it the Bloodiest Beck in Britain!!
"Plans are useless, but planning is everything"
Age, infiirmity and cunning defeats youth and might!
A massive routing army trapped against a river is basically the extreme worst case scenario.
Edward was a warrior. And a teenager. 17 I think. And I believe he won every battle he fought.
I see back then the battle cameras only recorded in mono chrome....
My ancestors, our heritage, don't forget it at a time it's being pushed aside
❤️
Watching YOU examine bones seeing what we want to see.
So much for the Battle of Malplaquet (1709)
It's just beggars ones belief when thinking of Waterloo ,Gettysburg, Somme, etc, as how high the death toll was at Towton. Even if one forgets about the carnage the Yorkist longbows must've wreaked in the Lancastrian ranks, the bloodiest engagement in the battle had to be when it came to hand to hand.
If done with respect to history the War of the Roses would make an absolutely, excellent tv drama.
Man has found some lovely spots to hack each other or blow each other to pieces
Fair play
The most bloody battle ever fought in English soil (Edmund Bogg). More men hacked to death or killed by arrows (no quarter given), in a single day, than were killed and wounded at the 3 day long battle of Gettysburg, where most of the slaughter was with firearms.
The Cock Beck Ran Red with blood for the SECOND TIME in its history.
The first being the battle of Whinmoor (sources differ on the spelling) where the last pagan King in England was defeated.
Some say just local legend. Hey! Check out nearby street names and estate names.
And of course Edmund Bogg.
I have a first edition lol. 😜
Also, if folks are interested in The WarS of the Roses, check out one of the events that led up to this. Where Edward and his father were in Sandal Castle. A foraging party went out and took a long time to return. So Edwards Dad went out with a few others to find them and got ambushed by Lancastrians in the surrounding forest. Hard to imagine Wakefield being surrounded by forest these days. Anyway the Lancastrians chopped his head off. Possibly within full view of Sandal Castle. Edward may well have witnessed his own father's execution.
2:26 I thought the house of York is based in York city and the house of Lancaster is based in Lancashire.
Put it this way...If you were around at the time and had the choice of being in the thick of it, or staying home in bed...I think most of us would have stayed home that day 😂
Were arrows expensive ammo?
Not cheap esp in the numbers required. Training an archer was expensive.
Question... How did they know Who's who on the battlefield? Did they wear patches? Where is the River?
For the most part, yes, they did wear badges/patches.
As a percentage of the population, I would say yes.
@@jarlborg1531 Towton cost roughly 1% of the entire English population. In modern terms, that’s akin to around 80% of Greater London being wiped out, or the entirety of our 2nd to 11th cities (Birmingham, Liverpool, Nottingham, Sheffield, Bristol, Glasgow, Leicester, Edinburgh, Leeds, Cardiff and Manchester). The way the forces were mustered, it’s likely that almost everyone in the country were within a couple of degrees of separation from someone who died at Towton.
Winter is coming
You could hope to get a swift death - but it’s likely most were brutal. The armor and padding did it’s job, it prevented death…a swift one.
Combine with wet blood
Even the most sharpened weapons were likely to be used as blunt weapons rather than stabbing.
Medieval hell on earth.
I lived in Towton my house use to back on to farm fields and when the farmer use to plow the field they would plow up bones all the time the police would come and tent it off and remove the body .
We need our history back
hmmm i heard that the battle of towton was between 30 and 20 thousand both sides im sure the full battle of the roses may have been 100 thousand
Imagine it. The morning of such a battle. I think I would be a brave person if I was to react to something. I think I would be a coward if I had to think about it. If you get my point.
Actually there were only about seven guys fighting that day. Ned and Phil were kilt and Fergus had a nasty break. The rest were fine.
It's recorded that in 1066 England had 2.5 million inhabitants. I think the 28k is, slightly, exaggerated. But going off the 1066 population, it makes sense by this time there would easily be that many people alive at the time of the war of the roses. Just my opinion though.🤙
So about 36 individuals found in a mass grave but what happened to all the others? Even if the estimates are exaggerated, there must have been a few thousand dead, so where could they be?
Pigfeed .
One wouldn't want to be on the loosing side