Haha, we've all been there man! Another thing that will happen is that the desire to stun is too great, so you lose your DPS from birds which results n not getting a kill - or you stun too early and people can just TP out. Practice makes perfect!
Im currently using visage to climb out of 2k after a 6 year break from dota and this video gave me some new ideas to try, thanks The whole "it wont work at low mmr" thing doesnt hole water, ny ranked vusage winrate is like 67%
Good to hear! Yeah, Visage is seriously strong, and even better is that because he's such a skillheavy hero, you're only getting progressively better as you keep playing him, which only adds up to you winning more. Good luck with the grind!
Nice one! I imagine more people are interested with him now that 33 showed off one hell of a performance at Ti with Visage. Just hang in there and keep practicing. Familiar micro will increase over time as you get more used to how he plays.
im considering buying ring of basilius after nulls so in advance you can build vlads easier and you max out mana regen on lane to spam soul assumption even more whatchu think?
This is perfectly normal and is actually something a lot of higher level players do for Visage, exactly BECAUSE it builds into Vladimirs Offering, which you almost always want anyway.
@@Kyubashi thanks man i tried the build and early game is extremely good but i dislike gleipnir its great but for that gold i couldve got AC and some more i like pushing aggressively so AC feels like it does everything about visage well but after watching the video i go 2 null, tranquil boots, vlads, drum, AC, scepter. also note that bloodthorn is autokill if opponent doesnt dispel cause each attack from visage and familiars gets flat 50 dmg on top but i usualy buy it for snowball cause its expensive
@@markodespotov1455 The good thing about Visage is that there often isn't a definitive 'best build' - this is a good thing because it makes experimentation a lot easier for people really wanting to delve into what Visage is capable of as a hero - PLUS it lets him change items on a per-game basis, which not exactly every hero can do and be successful from doing.
@@Kyubashi true but may i ask you when one of your familiars is low and you want to quickly stoneform it what is your way to be consistent and quick i usualy tab cycle until i see low hp bar below skills and pop but i sometimes mess up i need a quickest way if there is one
@@markodespotov1455 If the familiar is the closest one to visage you can just cast stone form from him. Otherwise you'll need individual control groups for each bird so you can select it and use the skill quickly. You'll have to work on keeping track of which is which tho.
as a herald visage player i personally start with 2 wraith bands instead of the 2 nulls and i rush witchblade as a single right click with witchblade automaticly gives near max stacks of soul assumption from the witchblade poison damage and the attack speed feels nice and the projectile speed buffs the speed of the soul assumption well its traveling to its target and it gives alittle mana regen and late game the phrasma right click debuff boosts the damage from your soul assumption its all around best first item for visage after witchblade i usualy go power treads then vlads then shard then heart of terrasque so i can stay alive for longer to keep right clicking and shooting off soul assumptions usualy am able to end games shortly after getting lvl 20 3 target soul assumption talent
@Kyubashi it's herald and I been playing dota since warcraft 3 this my only account but I'm essentialy smurfing by sandbagging when I get to the top end of herald I spam the lowest winrate heros of each meta so i dont get outa herald, my preferred bracket is herald 5 it has highest average match quality compared to all other brackets, maybey in immortal rushing witchblade on Visage wouldn't work but in herald it's a great first item
Exclusively facet 1 - Sepulchere. His other facet quite literally makes the hero WORSE than if you could choose not to use a facet at all. There's bigger downsides to not being able to control your familiars individually, on top of things like them dying automatically when Visage does. It's absolutely dreadful, and they should rework it to something interesting.
@@methselah You just gotta buckle down and learn my dude! That's part of the fun isn't it? Why learn heroes like Lone Druid, Meepo, Invoker and Visage if you're not going to make full use of their kit, right? Best thing to do is just really to play him and get 'familiar' with him. The more you play, the better it'll feel over time. It took me initially like 5 games to feel somewhat comfortable, and then another 10 or so to feel like I was really in control. Still improving with every game I play - so don't hold back and get that practice in! Unranked is your friend here, too.
@@methselah Make sure you have at least one control group set to the birds and one set to all controlled units. The birds are much faster than visage so if you want to keep them close don't send them very far. Holding down a ctrl group will focus the camera on the main thing you're controlling.
Question: How do you play if your position 4 is like eathshaker or tiny who usually stands behind you and afraid to trade with enemies? Im kinda low mmr and not always playing offlane but visage is my 2nd most picked hero and i play him as pos 5 that got me from archon to ancient. I always fail to understand if its my fault that my support is not agressive or its my responsibility to adjust on what i should do in lane.
First and foremost, this is a really good question, because this is also a common scenario. Let me start off by saying I have some bad news - This doesn't change...AT ALL (Currently 6.5-7k as of this video). 90-95% of the time on my Vis offlane lanes, I have a melee support, and MAYBE 20%ish of that time, they actually know how to pull melee support off - it's genuinely quite a bit harder than range support, but that's another topic altogether. This is genuinely the hardest hurdle for Visage really, because it seriously dictates what you can and cannot do during the game. He's the type of hero that can run away with a game if he's given a great start with a good pos 4, but can end up not ramping up if he doesn't get going correctly. The most important thing is to get to level 6 as fast as possible, due to achieving birds. If your support isn't pulling or achieving things as a melee's, or dishing out damage so you can soul assumption people, you have a serious problem. There's genuinely only one of two solutions, and its far from perfect. You'll basically have to tell your position 4 what they SHOULD be doing. If they're afraid to do anything, they really need to pull, so that at the very least, you can get a safe amount of constant XP due to lane location being closer to your tower. Or - they need to LEAVE. This isn't at all ideal for Visage, as is often better for characters such as Brood, Darkseer or Timber, who; depending on Matchup they're facing, can brush off most kill attempts when played right. The biggest issue stems from the fact that your XP is being split in half - which isn't bad by it's own; but if its dished out to a pos4 partner that doesn't pull their weight during lane, you're now getting level 6 at a snails pace and the entire game suffers for it. Know that this is one of the most frustrating (and common!) things to happen during Visage games, and it still happens ALL the time during my games. I simply try to make the best out of it and steer my pos 4 as best I can. It's not exactly ideal, but DotA is a team game. The only way you can avoid this scenario entirely is by playing Visage mid. Keep grinding with him, and try to spur your pos4 players on to play more aggressively and pull - if they listen; great, you might just win lane - if not, hey, at least you tried, and there's always a next game.
what to do if i have a pos 4 kotl thats spams q all the time against a rubick jugg enemy that can easily kill me everytime i approach a very deep lane near their tower
Hopefully said KotL is actually hitting those Q's onto the enemies, because if he is, it's free damage for your W and very good chances of killing. If not, it's not exactly ideal at all - and not unique to Visage at all. A position 4 KotL can very easily make a lane go sideways if he spams his Q and it doesn't lead to anything. Rubick and Jug should however have next to zero kill potential on you. As soon as you get lifted by Rub, and spun by Jug, you can effectively just press Q on Jug as Visage, and out-run him quite easily, unless he rushed boots as fast as possible.
@@Kyubashi i did actually manage to utilize his q spam by spamming w as well but rubick jugg combo was deadly enough to kill me down after lift and spin so my q was still useless thanks for the quick reply
You need to press your ultimate (Summon Familiars) when it's set to AUTOCAST You can do this in three ways - by right clicking it with your mouse cursor - by holding in shift before you press the ability, or by designating a custom button to toggle it INTO autocasting.
It CAN - although it's a lot more uncommon there. I don't really do Visage on mid a whole lot, and because you usually (or should at least) have a bigger level lead than your side lines, you can proceed to be serious issue around the whole map, making items such as especially Orchid a lot more common on mid, whereas it's rarely seen on offlane Visage. Here's a game from LIL - 7831657576 (Match ID) This is obviously a super high level pub, but he still runs the hero mid with the build; so it might serve you well as a stepping stone. Best of luck!
My mistakes with Visage is being a little too focused on getting stuns with familiars that I forget I have a hero out of position and dying
Haha, we've all been there man! Another thing that will happen is that the desire to stun is too great, so you lose your DPS from birds which results n not getting a kill - or you stun too early and people can just TP out.
Practice makes perfect!
Im currently using visage to climb out of 2k after a 6 year break from dota and this video gave me some new ideas to try, thanks
The whole "it wont work at low mmr" thing doesnt hole water, ny ranked vusage winrate is like 67%
Good to hear!
Yeah, Visage is seriously strong, and even better is that because he's such a skillheavy hero, you're only getting progressively better as you keep playing him, which only adds up to you winning more.
Good luck with the grind!
Thanks for this! I'm currently learning Visage and I still fuss about micromanagement, hope I get better at it hngg 😶🌫
Nice one! I imagine more people are interested with him now that 33 showed off one hell of a performance at Ti with Visage.
Just hang in there and keep practicing. Familiar micro will increase over time as you get more used to how he plays.
im considering buying ring of basilius after nulls so in advance you can build vlads easier and you max out mana regen on lane to spam soul assumption even more whatchu think?
This is perfectly normal and is actually something a lot of higher level players do for Visage, exactly BECAUSE it builds into Vladimirs Offering, which you almost always want anyway.
@@Kyubashi thanks man i tried the build and early game is extremely good but i dislike gleipnir its great but for that gold i couldve got AC and some more i like pushing aggressively so AC feels like it does everything about visage well but after watching the video i go 2 null, tranquil boots, vlads, drum, AC, scepter. also note that bloodthorn is autokill if opponent doesnt dispel cause each attack from visage and familiars gets flat 50 dmg on top but i usualy buy it for snowball cause its expensive
@@markodespotov1455 The good thing about Visage is that there often isn't a definitive 'best build' - this is a good thing because it makes experimentation a lot easier for people really wanting to delve into what Visage is capable of as a hero - PLUS it lets him change items on a per-game basis, which not exactly every hero can do and be successful from doing.
@@Kyubashi true but may i ask you when one of your familiars is low and you want to quickly stoneform it what is your way to be consistent and quick i usualy tab cycle until i see low hp bar below skills and pop but i sometimes mess up i need a quickest way if there is one
@@markodespotov1455 If the familiar is the closest one to visage you can just cast stone form from him. Otherwise you'll need individual control groups for each bird so you can select it and use the skill quickly. You'll have to work on keeping track of which is which tho.
as a herald visage player i personally start with 2 wraith bands instead of the 2 nulls and i rush witchblade as a single right click with witchblade automaticly gives near max stacks of soul assumption from the witchblade poison damage and the attack speed feels nice and the projectile speed buffs the speed of the soul assumption well its traveling to its target and it gives alittle mana regen and late game the phrasma right click debuff boosts the damage from your soul assumption its all around best first item for visage after witchblade i usualy go power treads then vlads then shard then heart of terrasque so i can stay alive for longer to keep right clicking and shooting off soul assumptions usualy am able to end games shortly after getting lvl 20 3 target soul assumption talent
I wouldn't exactly recommend this - If you enjoy it (and hopefully winning too) then that's all fine and good. Depends on what your goal is really.
@Kyubashi it's herald and I been playing dota since warcraft 3 this my only account but I'm essentialy smurfing by sandbagging when I get to the top end of herald I spam the lowest winrate heros of each meta so i dont get outa herald, my preferred bracket is herald 5 it has highest average match quality compared to all other brackets, maybey in immortal rushing witchblade on Visage wouldn't work but in herald it's a great first item
@@TylerHachey-w4p youre a menace if yo do all that to keep yourself in a certain rank
@markodespotov1455 my go to hero for sandbagging is IO because no matter how hard I try IO Winrate in herald pubs is like 30%
@@TylerHachey-w4p fair enough
What Facet do you use?
Exclusively facet 1 - Sepulchere. His other facet quite literally makes the hero WORSE than if you could choose not to use a facet at all. There's bigger downsides to not being able to control your familiars individually, on top of things like them dying automatically when Visage does.
It's absolutely dreadful, and they should rework it to something interesting.
@@Kyubashi I want to use visage but I suck at controlling his familiars. Any tips?
? You can see in the video ? It's the one that recalls the birds after 4s
@@methselah You just gotta buckle down and learn my dude! That's part of the fun isn't it? Why learn heroes like Lone Druid, Meepo, Invoker and Visage if you're not going to make full use of their kit, right?
Best thing to do is just really to play him and get 'familiar' with him. The more you play, the better it'll feel over time. It took me initially like 5 games to feel somewhat comfortable, and then another 10 or so to feel like I was really in control.
Still improving with every game I play - so don't hold back and get that practice in! Unranked is your friend here, too.
@@methselah Make sure you have at least one control group set to the birds and one set to all controlled units. The birds are much faster than visage so if you want to keep them close don't send them very far. Holding down a ctrl group will focus the camera on the main thing you're controlling.
Question: How do you play if your position 4 is like eathshaker or tiny who usually stands behind you and afraid to trade with enemies? Im kinda low mmr and not always playing offlane but visage is my 2nd most picked hero and i play him as pos 5 that got me from archon to ancient. I always fail to understand if its my fault that my support is not agressive or its my responsibility to adjust on what i should do in lane.
First and foremost, this is a really good question, because this is also a common scenario.
Let me start off by saying I have some bad news - This doesn't change...AT ALL (Currently 6.5-7k as of this video). 90-95% of the time on my Vis offlane lanes, I have a melee support, and MAYBE 20%ish of that time, they actually know how to pull melee support off - it's genuinely quite a bit harder than range support, but that's another topic altogether.
This is genuinely the hardest hurdle for Visage really, because it seriously dictates what you can and cannot do during the game. He's the type of hero that can run away with a game if he's given a great start with a good pos 4, but can end up not ramping up if he doesn't get going correctly.
The most important thing is to get to level 6 as fast as possible, due to achieving birds. If your support isn't pulling or achieving things as a melee's, or dishing out damage so you can soul assumption people, you have a serious problem.
There's genuinely only one of two solutions, and its far from perfect.
You'll basically have to tell your position 4 what they SHOULD be doing. If they're afraid to do anything, they really need to pull, so that at the very least, you can get a safe amount of constant XP due to lane location being closer to your tower.
Or - they need to LEAVE. This isn't at all ideal for Visage, as is often better for characters such as Brood, Darkseer or Timber, who; depending on Matchup they're facing, can brush off most kill attempts when played right.
The biggest issue stems from the fact that your XP is being split in half - which isn't bad by it's own; but if its dished out to a pos4 partner that doesn't pull their weight during lane, you're now getting level 6 at a snails pace and the entire game suffers for it.
Know that this is one of the most frustrating (and common!) things to happen during Visage games, and it still happens ALL the time during my games. I simply try to make the best out of it and steer my pos 4 as best I can. It's not exactly ideal, but DotA is a team game. The only way you can avoid this scenario entirely is by playing Visage mid.
Keep grinding with him, and try to spur your pos4 players on to play more aggressively and pull - if they listen; great, you might just win lane - if not, hey, at least you tried, and there's always a next game.
what to do if i have a pos 4 kotl thats spams q all the time against a rubick jugg enemy that can easily kill me everytime i approach a very deep lane near their tower
Hopefully said KotL is actually hitting those Q's onto the enemies, because if he is, it's free damage for your W and very good chances of killing.
If not, it's not exactly ideal at all - and not unique to Visage at all. A position 4 KotL can very easily make a lane go sideways if he spams his Q and it doesn't lead to anything.
Rubick and Jug should however have next to zero kill potential on you. As soon as you get lifted by Rub, and spun by Jug, you can effectively just press Q on Jug as Visage, and out-run him quite easily, unless he rushed boots as fast as possible.
@@Kyubashi i did actually manage to utilize his q spam by spamming w as well but rubick jugg combo was deadly enough to kill me down after lift and spin so my q was still useless
thanks for the quick reply
Sir How to recall familiar, i cant rotation when i dont know how to do it
You need to press your ultimate (Summon Familiars) when it's set to AUTOCAST
You can do this in three ways - by right clicking it with your mouse cursor - by holding in shift before you press the ability, or by designating a custom button to toggle it INTO autocasting.
Oh I see, but if the skill is on cooldown and i still have summon, it cant be recall ya?
@@herman5404 Correct! You're unable to recall while the skill is on CD
Heya, would this build also work on mid Visage?
It CAN - although it's a lot more uncommon there. I don't really do Visage on mid a whole lot, and because you usually (or should at least) have a bigger level lead than your side lines, you can proceed to be serious issue around the whole map, making items such as especially Orchid a lot more common on mid, whereas it's rarely seen on offlane Visage.
Here's a game from LIL - 7831657576 (Match ID)
This is obviously a super high level pub, but he still runs the hero mid with the build; so it might serve you well as a stepping stone.
Best of luck!