Hello - aluminum honeycomb is processed using the first method stated in your video. I've not seen the corrugated method used before, but sounds interesting and will see if I can find more on that process.
Hi Randy, expanding a metal Aluminum honeycomb core sounds a bit unusual, is it possible for you share some more information or a link that goes more into that? Thanks for your comment. Expansion is usually the best approach for nonmetallic panels such as nomex core panels. The expansion or corrugation process is only for the core of course.
Hi Surya - Expanded hex cell alum honeycomb has been used for many years as a structural substrate. Expanded alum honeycomb is utilized in aerospace, marine, a backer for lightweight natural stone panels, and many other industries. A quick search of the web for “aluminum honeycomb panels” will provide much information. Producing a hex cell alum core is tricky, but is common practice.
+Randy Randy Thanks Randy. What I was trying to get at is that the expansion process seems to lend itself much better to Non Metallic cores, while for Al honeycomb core it seems outdated and inferior compared to the corrugation process. In addition, superior strength properties of corrugated Al core seem to be the norm nowadays in the production of Al core as the production efficiency is also improved. For example: www.plascore.com/products/honeycomb-cores/aluminum/pahd-xr1-5052-aluminum-honeycomb/ But, it is good to know the expansion process was prevalent for Al cores, so I thank you for that insight.
Hi again, thank you for the reply. My original point was that the first process illustrated in your video is also used for making “expandable aluminum hex cell honeycomb core”. In your last reply, you state that this process of making expanded core is outdated. Reading from the link you provided, so much of this material is still being consumed in arrow and other hi-tech industries; I wouldn't say it was outdated just yet. The expansion process is still prevalent, not sure why you think it is a thing of the past?
+Randy Randy Correct, I think in the video I made it sound like the expansion process is exclusive to non metallic cores, what I meant to to say was it is more widely used for them. The other process for Al cores is the corrugation process, it is different from expansion process and more efficient in that the Al core foils are formed into the hat shape using special rollers, then bonded together at the flats. This eliminates the need to use piercing nails and expanding the Al core. Correct me if I am wrong.
Sounds interesting, assuming the bond is as strong as ultrasonic welding, the 'W' direction weakness is primarily due to lack of material continuity. This blogpost goes into a little more of that: www.stressebook.com/sandwich-panel-flexure-and-core-shear/
Hello, Surya. I have a question regarding the core orientation in sandwich panels. I know that for better strength capability core should be oriented along the short edge of the panel. But I have no idea what the stress rationale under that... I guess that panel short edge orientation results in higher transverse stresses. Therefore, to minimize deflection due to transverse shear it is efficient to put core oriented with the higher shear capability. However, I still have doubts...
@@stressebookllc Thanks for your reply! It seems that my question was not so clear described... Sorry for that. I meant the core ribbon direction. If we take rectangular panel, the most rational way to orient core is to put ribbon direction along the short edge. Beam analogy for honeycomb panels is clear for me, but the question more about in-plane core orientation. Really appreciate if you can explain this effect!
@@ivanagafonov3455 It depends on the manufacturing process. But it also depends on the panel cut. This is why you have both L and W core tests to determine the allowable core shear stress. Check these: www.stressebook.com/sandwich-panel-long-beam-and-short-beam-tests/ and www.stressebook.com/sandwich-panel-flexure-and-core-shear/. Good questions though.
apparently google offers different results in different countries. because when i do the same search it brings me paper honeycomb machinery even though i specify aluminum honeycomb. but thanks anyways. i will get in touch with them to see if they can help me or point me in the right direction.
the video is very nice and knowledgeable. but, how to measure the expansion of honeycomb where the cell size differs? is there a particular formula that has to be followed?
Rajendra Pareek The core before it goes into these panels has a fixed topology for each cell. the cells are all controlled in size shape and dimension during the core manufacturing process. The cell size and shape does not change for typical aircraft interiors applications. There are different shapes and sizes for different applications though, such as extended and over extended cells etc. for example.
+gus bisbal Gus yes I believe it is done, although it is not a common practice in the interiors industry due to the fact that the types of panels that require this type of double panel layup are typically heavily loaded bulkhead panels that are too tick to be made out of standard Al panels. The thicker the core, the lower the core shear allowable stress due to the instability of the core cell columns. The other complication is the bond between the center skin and the cores on either side is critical, as the shear stress there is maximum. A fiberglass ply is required if there is a mix of carbon fiber plies and Al core or plies for electrical insulation.
Rajendra, I go into a bit more detail and touch on some other topics in this blog post: www.stressebook.com/sandwich-panel-flexure-and-core-shear/. I am sure there are formulas as panel specifications usually contain cell size across the flats of the cell where it is expanded. How they actually measure those sizes optically or otherwise might depend on the type of core (expanded rectangular core, hyper expanded cores or normal hex expanded cores among others), quality control requirements, process specifications etc. As far as the math goes, the distance between the glue lines is known, so the math could be worked out based on the type of core that is desired. I would probably look in hexcel databases and documents. I have almost always seen normal hex shaped cores in panels in my experience.
many thanks for your reply, i am spiral paper tube core maker , i am interested to form honey comb paper sheet for the packaging purpose honey comb structure has very good compresive strength to bare heavy load , but strength of cell play important role , i may request you again can u guide me for honey comb paper core ex pander, many thanks for your reply
Hello Naresh, there are many videos on youtube for packaging honeycomb core machines, here is an example with better commentary. th-cam.com/video/GpC2R9Bc1bw/w-d-xo.html
Aramid "NOMEX" fiber was originally developed by Dupont for fire resistant applications. Following that, it was also adopted in the aerospace industry to meet FAA flammability requirements. www.dupont.com/products-and-services/personal-protective-equipment/nomex.html
You've saved me life my youth
Not sure what you mean, but if it helped you in any way, then that's a good thing.
Superb.
Can we look for some videos on F&DT hand calculation.
Thank you Saroj, at this point unfortunately the focus is on statics. But hopefully in the future we will get into F&DT.
Hello - aluminum honeycomb is processed using the first method stated in your video. I've not seen the corrugated method used before, but sounds interesting and will see if I can find more on that process.
Hi Randy, expanding a metal Aluminum honeycomb core sounds a bit unusual, is it possible for you share some more information or a link that goes more into that? Thanks for your comment. Expansion is usually the best approach for nonmetallic panels such as nomex core panels. The expansion or corrugation process is only for the core of course.
Hi Surya - Expanded hex cell alum honeycomb has been used for many years as a structural substrate. Expanded alum honeycomb is utilized in aerospace, marine, a backer for lightweight natural stone panels, and many other industries. A quick search of the web for “aluminum honeycomb panels” will provide much information. Producing a hex cell alum core is tricky, but is common practice.
+Randy Randy Thanks Randy. What I was trying to get at is that the expansion process seems to lend itself much better to Non Metallic cores, while for Al honeycomb core it seems outdated and inferior compared to the corrugation process.
In addition, superior strength properties of corrugated Al core seem to be the norm nowadays in the production of Al core as the production efficiency is also improved.
For example: www.plascore.com/products/honeycomb-cores/aluminum/pahd-xr1-5052-aluminum-honeycomb/
But, it is good to know the expansion process was prevalent for Al cores, so I thank you for that insight.
Hi again, thank you for the reply. My original point was that the first process illustrated in your video is also used for making “expandable aluminum hex cell honeycomb core”. In your last reply, you state that this process of making expanded core is outdated. Reading from the link you provided, so much of this material is still being consumed in arrow and other hi-tech industries; I wouldn't say it was outdated just yet. The expansion process is still prevalent, not sure why you think it is a thing of the past?
+Randy Randy Correct, I think in the video I made it sound like the expansion process is exclusive to non metallic cores, what I meant to to say was it is more widely used for them.
The other process for Al cores is the corrugation process, it is different from expansion process and more efficient in that the Al core foils are formed into the hat shape using special rollers, then bonded together at the flats. This eliminates the need to use piercing nails and expanding the Al core. Correct me if I am wrong.
Very nice. Thank you again for the explanation...:)
Finally, great vid,thank you.
I presume plastic honeycomb isn't made this way (polycore)???
Its possible some applications use a similar process but cannot comment on that
@@stressebookllc very interesting stiff, thank you
@@bluewanderer9903 You should check out the available courses at www.stressebook.com/courses
Thank you for your comment Mahmut.
Instead of bonding the HOBE block, you should ultrasonic weld it.. That way, both directions will be strong..
Sounds interesting, assuming the bond is as strong as ultrasonic welding, the 'W' direction weakness is primarily due to lack of material continuity. This blogpost goes into a little more of that: www.stressebook.com/sandwich-panel-flexure-and-core-shear/
Great video, very informative! Thank you!
Hello, Surya. I have a question regarding the core orientation in sandwich panels.
I know that for better strength capability core should be oriented along the short edge of the panel. But I have no idea what the stress rationale under that...
I guess that panel short edge orientation results in higher transverse stresses. Therefore, to minimize deflection due to transverse shear it is efficient to put core oriented with the higher shear capability. However, I still have doubts...
Think of the core as the web of an I-beam, that I-beam web (core) is vertical, I-beam caps (skins) are horizontal.
@@stressebookllc Thanks for your reply! It seems that my question was not so clear described... Sorry for that.
I meant the core ribbon direction. If we take rectangular panel, the most rational way to orient core is to put ribbon direction along the short edge.
Beam analogy for honeycomb panels is clear for me, but the question more about in-plane core orientation.
Really appreciate if you can explain this effect!
@@ivanagafonov3455 It depends on the manufacturing process. But it also depends on the panel cut. This is why you have both L and W core tests to determine the allowable core shear stress. Check these: www.stressebook.com/sandwich-panel-long-beam-and-short-beam-tests/ and www.stressebook.com/sandwich-panel-flexure-and-core-shear/. Good questions though.
Honeycomb Sandwich Panels video, as promised, check it out on youtube, please like and subscribe!
Thank you,
Stress Ebook LLC. Team.
who makes the machinery for this product? if i wanted to start manufacturing these panels where would i find the equipment? thank you.
Not sure if this will help you but this was the first result from a google search on sandwich panel manufacturing equipment: www.kindus.com/
apparently google offers different results in different countries. because when i do the same search it brings me paper honeycomb machinery even though i specify aluminum honeycomb. but thanks anyways. i will get in touch with them to see if they can help me or point me in the right direction.
I see.. what country are you in if I may ask?
Turkey
excellent. thank you very much
Can we use aluminium honeycomb in bridge deck and railway sleepers
the video is very nice and knowledgeable. but, how to measure the expansion of honeycomb where the cell size differs? is there a particular formula that has to be followed?
Rajendra Pareek The core before it goes into these panels has a fixed topology for each cell. the cells are all controlled in size shape and dimension during the core manufacturing process. The cell size and shape does not change for typical aircraft interiors applications. There are different shapes and sizes for different applications though, such as extended and over extended cells etc. for example.
www.excelcalcs.com/repository/strength/plates/honeycomb-beam-%26-panel-calculations/
What about the corrugated process?
hi team, can you share the manufacturing process of Aluminium honey comb by corrugation process ?
Can di-directional materials be produced. Where there are two cores going in perpendicular direction with a skin in between?
+gus bisbal Gus yes I believe it is done, although it is not a common practice in the interiors industry due to the fact that the types of panels that require this type of double panel layup are typically heavily loaded bulkhead panels that are too tick to be made out of standard Al panels.
The thicker the core, the lower the core shear allowable stress due to the instability of the core cell columns. The other complication is the bond between the center skin and the cores on either side is critical, as the shear stress there is maximum. A fiberglass ply is required if there is a mix of carbon fiber plies and Al core or plies for electrical insulation.
Are you asking about whether 2 perpendicular panels can be mated together? Or bonded together?
Rajendra, I go into a bit more detail and touch on some other topics in this blog post: www.stressebook.com/sandwich-panel-flexure-and-core-shear/. I am sure there are formulas as panel specifications usually contain cell size across the flats of the cell where it is expanded.
How they actually measure those sizes optically or otherwise might depend on the type of core (expanded rectangular core, hyper expanded cores or normal hex expanded cores among others), quality control requirements, process specifications etc. As far as the math goes, the distance between the glue lines is known, so the math could be worked out based on the type of core that is desired. I would probably look in hexcel databases and documents. I have almost always seen normal hex shaped cores in panels in my experience.
Which one is used for flooring construction?
How does this connect to the column of a building ?
Various, www.thegillcorp.com/home.php?cPath=38_23
music is awesome 😊
We hope you liked the video too... :)
Is there any machine manufacturers which can make honeycomb panel automatically?
The processes are automated to the extent they can be. One of the major US manufacturers is Hexcel, check their website for more information.
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i may have pleasure to know from you how hob block expending to cell formation
Here is an example: th-cam.com/video/GD5ltW_rTm8/w-d-xo.html, or th-cam.com/video/qLjmEj9cfQo/w-d-xo.html
many thanks for your reply, i am spiral paper tube core maker , i am interested to form honey comb paper sheet for the packaging purpose honey comb structure has very good compresive strength to bare heavy load , but strength of cell play important role , i may request you again can u guide me for honey comb paper core ex pander, many thanks for your reply
Hello Naresh, there are many videos on youtube for packaging honeycomb core machines, here is an example with better commentary. th-cam.com/video/GpC2R9Bc1bw/w-d-xo.html
hello sir u r right i have refer some of them but in small scale development i need to find easy operation in small scale model production
does anybody know how the rawmaterial: aramid paper is made? i can't find anything on google
Aramid "NOMEX" fiber was originally developed by Dupont for fire resistant applications. Following that, it was also adopted in the aerospace industry to meet FAA flammability requirements. www.dupont.com/products-and-services/personal-protective-equipment/nomex.html