Global Girl Groups: The “Idol System” Expands
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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Recently, it seems like several South Korean Entertainment companies, especially the Big 4, home to several successful K-Pop groups, are looking to expand their reach. They've begun to partner with record labels from countries such as China, Japan, and the United States to launch "global girl groups". Examples from JYP include Boy Story (China), NiziU (Japan), and most recently, VCHA (United States), formed on the series A2K. A similar series, Dream Academy, is looking to form a multinational girl group of idols, and is a collaboration between Hybe and Geffen. These groups come on the heels of others like XG or Blackswan, both of which promote in South Korea, but have no Korean members. XG technically isn't K-Pop and don't consider themselves to be, and Blackswan is, though they're one of the few groups to not have Korean members. As these global gril groups form, debut, and officially begin to promote, it stands to be seen if they'll make as much of an impact as some of their K-Pop counterparts from their fellow companies.
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I need girl groups to become a common thing all around the world
All I’m gonna say is I believe in Flo Supremacy ✨
Real ❤❤❤
the ad I got in front of this vid that I was watching when I read your comment was for Tampax and it said “flow” like 10 times 😭it was very fitting
I LOVE THEIR MUSIC ❤
SO REAL
The fact that XG recently did a cover of a song by FLO just makes this even more relevant!
XG I do want to say as an Alpha(fandom), they are a Japanese sub label, they are under AVEX - XGALX, the label is from Japan but promoting in Korea, trying to appeal to the K-pop international fan base to eventually reach a global audience.
AVEX is a sub label of Mitsubishi corporation, and AVEX manages a lot of the distribution for SM and YG in Japan, they have a joint label (YGEX for YG in Japan and AVEXTrax for SM artists )
AVEX is a part of Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group "keiretsu", not really a "sub label". Keiretsu is like a business network made up under the same financial institution.
mitsubishi committed many war atrocities against koreans and many other asian contries so....
@@jk31431many countries have done things to each other stop living in the past you weren't apart of
@@KudejikashiBut the Japanese still blame America for the nuclear bombs. The release of Oppenheimer's film was also banned. 😊
@@KudejikashiYou say that many countries have wronged each other, but Korea, China and Southeast Asia have never done anything to Japan. 🤭
It will be quite interesting to see how these new global groups will promote in America since there aren’t any music shows in the West. I hope that these group do become successful and diversify and broaden both the Korean and Western music industry.
There are places they can promote though. Like morning or late night talk shows (of course right now they aren't in production due to the writer's strike). MTV really needs to put the music back into MTV. I don't know if you remember or are aware of the show called TRL (Total Request Live) back in the late 90's and 00's. It was a daily tv show on MTV in the afternoon where they counted down the top 10 music videos requested by the fans. It was filmed live in Times Square in New York City with a huge window that celebrities could look out of and wave to hundreds of fans who were outside. When certain celebrities were there the crowds would extend for blocks. The show would also do interviews and live performances. They need to do a show like that again.
@@crystalsnow1138I would absolutely love if they brought this back! It would give so many small artists a chance to promote. A lot of small artists don’t have big labels backing them, making it difficult to appear on late night shows. With the age of social media, I doubt that people would tune in to watch on tv like they used to, but they could stream it live on TH-cam!
They need to collaborate with big tik tokers and instagram people. That's the new wat to market
They can perform in events like HITC, KCON or F1. XG is doing that and they’re doing great. It’s a matter of promotion and how unique their music is to stand out to get fans
Morning Shows and Late Night shows . That’s it. I wish SBS or Mnet or Hybe could export Mnet to the US
I love girl groups, and I listen to a lot of kpop girl groups specifically, and I’m overall excited for the return of girl groups in the west and these multinational efforts - however, one thing I don’t love about the idol system in Korea nowadays, and what I’m already seeing with VCHA, is the fact that so many groups nowadays debut children. Like, the youngest member of VCHA is 13. The training system is rigorous, often comes at the expense of education, and can cause or exacerbate serious physical and mental health issues. In my opinion, that’s just too much to put on a child. I wish they would maybe train them for a few more years and debut them at 18, or even 16 at the very earliest. It happens in the US too and it’s still terrible; that’s how things happen like what Alyson Stoner describes in their currently-airing podcast, “Dear Hollywood.” I just really hope someone is looking out for and advocating for these kids, and that their needs are being met.
jype 아티스트는 반드시 고등학교 졸업장을 얻어야합니다 연습생이든 데뷔한 아티스트든 상관없이 모든 소속가수들에게 해당되는 일입니다 . 한국인은 반드시 활동중에도 학교에 가야하고 외국인 멤버일경우 한국학교에 입학시키거나 홈스쿨방식으로 고등학교 졸업장이나 그것과 같은 자격시험을 합격하게 만듭니다 . 연습생이라고 춤과 노래만 배우는것이 아닙니다 그들은 역사. 도덕, 언어. 심시어 수학도 기획사에서 교육받습니다 . 심지어 성교육도 받습니다
그리고 jype회사에는 전문 심리상담가가 존재합니다 . 정기적으로 전문의시와 상담을 하고 연습생이나 아티스트가 원할때도 언제든지 상담을 받습니다 . 지금은 제와피를 떠났지만 지민은 개인유투브 방송에서 말했습니다 . 나는 악플을 보면서 상처받지 않는다고요 제와피에서 그걸을 어떻게 극복하는지 전문의사와 꾸준히 상담을 한 결과라고 했습니다 . 정말 많은 안티를 가지고 있는 트와이스의 가장 큰언니 나연도 말했습니다 . 악플에 상처받지 않는다고요
그리고 제와피는 k팝에서 멤버가 정신적으로 문제가 생겼을때 활동을 중단시키고 치료에 전념하는 방식을 선택한 회사입니다 . 그 결과 제와피소속 아티스트는 단 한명도 자살한 사람이 없고 약물로 문제를 일으킨적도 없습니다 . 그리고 그들은 회사를 떠나서도 여전히 j,y park과 교류를하며 도움을 주고받고 친하게 지낸다 그리고 이제 제와피는 10대에게는 10대에 맞는 음악을 시킨다 . 멤버들이 성인이 됐을때 성적인 비유가 들어간 음악이 나온다
Honestly minors should just be banned from debuting
@@user-harook777 I thought you would of been made to sign an nda on this stuff? Either ways minors should just be banned from debuting, I don't care if their talented or if it's their dream, ban minor idols regardless
@@aussiefurbymogwaifan6621 미성년자는 왜 일을하면 안되는가? 그건 어린 청소년을 학대했던 과거에서 출발한다
지금은 21세기다 청소년은 공부하고 자기의 꿈을 찾을 준비를 한다고 하면 이미 꿈을 찾고 그 기회를 잡은 사람은 어떡해야 하는가? 성인이 될떄까지 기다려라? 그거야 말로 차별이고 억누름이다
나이가 어리다고 모두가 제대로 판단을 못하는것도 아니고 반대로 어른이라고 무조건 옮은 판단을 하는것도 아니다
당신은 학생인가? 그렇다면 왜 학교를 다니는가?
결국 배우고 꿈을 펼치기 위해서일것이다 .저들은 남들보다 조금 더 꿈을 일찍찾고 그 기회를 잡은거다
그리고 어제 JYP미국지사 담당자 인터뷰가 있었다. 그가 말하길 미성년자 일에 관한 캘리포니아 법을 성실히 지키고 있으며 그에따라 가이언을 동반하고 하루 6시간이상 연습을 안 시키고 있다고 말했다
XG is doing it right.
They are getting their name out there by doing stuff in Korea, Japan, USA, Australia, etc.
They speak Japanese, Korean, and English.
They put 100% energy, work, and emotion into their music. XG doesn't just follow a concept or a style, XG lives it and can change it up.
이들은 진부한 컨셉이라고,,유행에 늦게 반응을 하더라 ,,,그런데 돈은 많아,,,,,
Ahh yeah, xg are coming to Australia for a show
It's great that you mentioned Motown's influence on K-pop group systems, but we can't forget K-pop is a mix of US and Japanese idol systems. Culturally (and historically) there's an overlap with Japan way more than the US, and I would say this plays a significant impact in how K-pop, although incredibly successful (beyond what I expected when I became a fan over 10 years ago) feels somewhat constrained to break through the US market compared to projects like NiziU in Japan. I honestly feel the current "global group" projects will not nearly break this barrier and will remain limited to the already existing K-pop fandom, if not proven to be less successful than "local" groups. K-pop has been going on this weird "Americanization" path lately, in my opinion. The idol image system comes specifically from Japan (where it has developed since the 60s, versus the mid-90s in Korea), it's absolutely engrained culturally, and it's hardly translated to the Western market. Last but not least, let's not forget about the racism against Asians in the US - there is a political and economic barrier as well.
yup. yet korea is acting like they are bringing a renaissance to japan and america by catering to them as if they didn't just take their ideas and mesh them together haha.
With Vcha what we hear now isn't their finall sound it's just the songs from the show and a pre-debut. So what we hear now will change over time and that will be their final sound. The same happened with Twice after doing the show Sixteen. They have no official debut date yet but, according to the JYP website they will debut this year Q4.
I hope JYP does them right
@@lbfilms-nq5hjif he remembers the audience he’s trying to appeal to they should be fine. Also most Kpop music sounds like Disney music so what they’ve shown isn’t far off.
I will never forget when some kpop stans liked tweet saying _"MOTOWN? who the fuck all these nobodies"_ black Twitter dragged kpop ! 😂 As a kpop stan myself I was sooo embarrassed ! Kpop stans need to conduct Music history study 😅
this concept in theory is interesting bc it could potentially revive the boy/girl group which have been a dying breed for years now, but the idea of applying the Korean idol system to western audiences is kinda 😬 bc I don’t think Korean entertainment understands what western audiences actually look for in a music group, Korea mostly operates on superficial marketability while talent and establishing a musical brand is secondary, whereas in the west the music is the gateway, if the music isn’t good, ppl aren’t going to tune in, the main reason why kpop is successful in Korea is bc they recycle the same music trends with a different aesthetic, and companies just ride the coattails of whatever got popular, ofc there’s exceptions to this rule (blackpink) but if they’re intending to market specifically towards Americans, they can’t do what blackpink does regurgitating the same concepts over and over
Ikr these companies need to be seriously about their plans if they want this groups to be successful here in the west any lackluster release is just going to make the group flop
I think it’s gonna be important (esp for JYP) to pay attention to what American audiences at least generally want to hear, I think that’s why some of his groups English singles that were meant to introduce them over here didn’t perform too well
If past 10yrs of Kpop growth and success in the West have proven anything, kpop companies are continually being underestimated/belittled by westerners from music executives and joe small like yourself. Its time to stop thinking you know better and smarter than these people running billion$$ dollar machines. At least US music labels are now finally wising up, listening and partnering w these Kpop companies given their long track proven record.
I hear lot of people making similar comments, but historiclly speaking, image was as much or more important thn the music in the west as well. and there has been plenty of copy/pasting successful groups or bands here too.
I’m excited to see where Vcha goes! I watched A2K since it came out, and was excited, as this is my first group I followed since “before debuting”. Should be very interesting to say the least!
They will be good, they cater to tweens kids bop style
Yeah I’m getting the vibe they’re geared to younger audience that I’m not in, but I’m wishing them the best fr
a lot of people are saying they sound like "kids bops" but i mean... I think this concept that we've seen JYPe take them in suits them, and also.. they can't do much with how young their maknae is (Kaylee)
@@ItsNifer exactly, honestly their sound is giving me 2000s Disney Channel music, which is not a bad thing
I wished JYP promoted them in America instead of making them do korean music shows. Like he should have let them promote in America and let them promote the american way. Music shows are not even watched by most kpop fans even. And if they watch then just their fav groups.
K-pop idols version of “inspiration” is just straight off ripping the artist they find “cool” off
So what's your solution? Like what can they do to reflect their inspirations as opposed to ripping off the artists they find cool?
Ever ward of a thing called creativity?
Flo slay and boys world and citizen queen need more hype
Bella Dose, Say Now & H3rizon aswell
I know they tried to revive the show TRL (Total Request Live) awhile back but I wouldn't mind seeing a show like that again. MTV needs to put the music back in MTV but I also realize the amount of people who actually watch tv nowadays is getting smaller. For those that don't know or were too young TRL was a daily tv show in the afternoon on MTV where they counted down the top 10 requested music videos voted on by fans. It was filmed live from Times Square in New York City and hundreds of fans would stand on the street waiting to see their favorite celebrities in the big window in the TRL studio. I especially remember when artists like Backstreet Boys or NSYNC were there the crowd would cover blocks. But the show also did interviews and music performances. It was a great promotional tool for music artists. NSYNC was recently on the show hot ones and Chris Kirkpatrick was talking about TRL and he said getting a number 1 music video on TRL was a bigger deal than getting a number 1 on the billboard charts, that's how big the show was. I just wish we had a show that brought back that enthusiasm for music.
MNET does well. MTV could do a style like that.
@@digestmymindThis! If MTV would do something like this, maybe more artists could be seen. It’s harder to get on your feet as an artist now bc of the lack of ways to promote.
also another good example is akb48 (a jpop girl group) has many sister groups which are in different prefectures of japan (such as nmb48 based in osaka and ske48 based in nagoya)! also international sister groups such as bnk48 based in bangkok thailand or akb48 team sh in shanghai! i think they did the localization/globalization the best out of ANYONE
But no one knows them. So not good example! 🤣🤣🤣
@@3.11OMEDETO39 wrong, YOU don’t know them. akb48’s singles sell 1m copies in the first day, they’re one of the few artists who can do that
@@3.11OMEDETO39Akb48 is one of the biggest girl groups in Asia
@@3.11OMEDETO39 I don't think so, AKB48 was very popular at least in Asia in 2011 and of course it also had Korean fans, where do you think LeeSooman got the concept of NCT from, lol.
@@3.11OMEDETO39 u probably living in a cave for not knowing how big of an empire akb is 😅
Music fans in the west are tireeeeeed of messy artists that cant dance, cant sing, cant act right in public, we need back the training system. Everyone is tired of these social media singers that only look and sound good in their ig feed and nowhere else…
I agree it’s the reason why I love XG! I don’t even really like kpop but XG do it for me they give a damn about their fans and performances, I’m wowed with every release!
Thank you for the research on how black people were the pioneers of the idol system that kpop used. People are ignorant about how kpop is just korean language, but their identity is rooted in what the west has already done.
XG is just different.. Their performance is really refined.
XG yuhh
Everything we do, A1 flawless, pandemonium, riot, always got green in my diet, head to my toes, shining like Canary Daimonds!
I came here for Blackswan❤ but stayed for the great video
I just don’t see a point in having groups that were put together solely for the sake of making money. The idols get to express 0% of their personality and art because the label dictates what they say, do, or even how they move. It’s all extremely superficial and just a big money making scheme
Thank you!
I totally agree with this it just all feels like a marketing strategy or an experiment to test the waters they are definitely doing it for money
XG😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
I hope vcha can be a girl group more tweens and little kids can look up too i feel like weve been missing that for a while! :)
Check out “secrets of sound” girl group also!
Thanks for this comprehensive video and for drawing the link to the motown training system. As a Spice Girls fan in the 90s, I remember a lot of stigma against manufactured groups, as if they didn't produce "real" music. Yet, oftentimes, there is so much more to being a fan of a group than just the music. Anyway, this video is really well researched and presented. Well done!👏😊
K-pop 걸그룹에는 Black swan이라고 있습니다. 한국팬들은 블랙스완을 진심으로 응원하고 있습니다.
이곳에서의 토론들은 블랙스완을 K-pop에서 어떻게 응원하는지를 전혀 모르고 댓글로 토론을 하고 있네요. 😅
I am excited for the groups to really train again! you def see the quality with these groups. Seeing them managed so well gives me hope!! I always wonder if earlier girl groups would have thrived more with this model.
In the 2010s the company behind the Pussycat Dolls tried to do this global group idea with 'Paradiso Girls' which failed after debut. Ultimately it starts with the music and then good marketing/promo. The West's lack of music shows like TRL of old is the main issue, there is no real centralized spot for big companies to promote on. Everything is now more 'organic.' and I don't know if mainstream media is open to revisiting that old formula in the US in particular either.
I see the appeal of being able to provide training to new artists, being able to hone their skills and learn how to make their art better. The downside though is that being a part of a company with a large profit incentive starts to affect the ability of the artists to truly express themselves. The company has a financial incentive to push existing artists into a mold of what is most marketable and profitable, or they have an incentive to select trainees that they believe will best fit this model. To me this creates an alienation from the artist to the music/art they make. Most music is both a product and art, but as the control of the company increases, the product starts to outweigh the art and it feels less like an authentic expression of humanity and more like a manufactured product. to me, the artistic expression is very important, and something i don't want us to lose. Its ok to have products as well, and for art to also be a product, but i worry about artistic freedom and expression under a system increasingly controlled by financial incentives.
22:38 Just a sidenote though NiziU doesn't perform in korean music shows they do perform in japanese music shows. I've always wondered if they can hit bigger if they did promote in korean music shows
That’s what I was assuming, so good to see it confirmed! I was moreso saying that in terms of wondering if these American groups will do Korean music shows if other K-Pop modeled but technically not K-Pop groups don’t as often
Correct me if im wrong but i thought the "Idol System" was adapted from Japan.
Motown had the first trainee system all the way back in 1959
Thanks for the deep dive, and for providing some history for context. I've been following A2K, as well as RUNext (which did have a number of non-Korean contestants), and am looking forward to seeing how Dream Academy turns out. For me this trend shows that K-Pop is here to stay - I don't see how it could continue to grow at the current pace without influence from places it tries to expand into.
I WANT THE KPOP SYSTEM to be applied in the us because i want to see my favourites artistes dancing, have physical album with lyrics and photobooks and fandoms
i also want the kpop system to spread. i find soloists, especially in the u.s. to be boring. so it would be nice for idol groups to spread more
Some big western Artists like Billie Eilish have merch that appeals to Kpop fans like i've seen Jason Derulo have a photocard (LMAOO) but western labels are really slacking when it comes to that.
I don’t care about that as long as the music is good😭
I think the idea of having groups or idols based on the demographic is actually genius. pushes new artist and its relatable!
13 in a group with 17 and 18 year olds okay JYP lmao
if all XG-haters can use all those energy and time toward their jobs, they'll be rich soon. They literally go to every single XG video and watch them all, even faster than a fan like myself lol
Who is hating on XG? People love them!
Blackswan 💟💟
Lessons with Naomi 🎉 good morning
Barry Gordy and Motown understood that it was easier to get on top than to stay on top.
I’ve been listening to K-Pop for a while and I was a big fan of RaNia at the time that Alex was added, so I think I can add a bit more context than what is in the this video. DR Music (Black Swan / RaNia’s company) treats their idols like complete crap and has since 90s and every single group has had less and less success. When Alex was added a majority of the group members had left and and the marketing of RaNia turned into Alex + everyone else and/or heavily leaning into her race (this was before they released their first song with her as a member). A lot of existing RaNia fans (including me) left at this time from the fandom as a lot of new “fans” came specifically because of Alex and didn’t care about any of the other members or prior releases. What’s terrible about this is that DR Music exploited Alex because of her race to prey on international K-Pop fans, and it unfortunately worked before backfiring when she left due to the racist treatment she received by staff leaving RaNia in an even worse situation. In retrospect, I feel like DR Music purposely race-baited to get more publicity.
However, in DR Music’s defence today, Fatou and the other non-Korean members (when Black Swan debuted/“redebuted” they still had Korean members) were actually treated as equals with their Korean members unlike Alex was treated. However, I’m not a fan of Black Swan because no one should support DR Music because it’s essentially a borderline money laundering scheme at this point that treats their idols terribly.
It's not only the company's fault ig company feeds what the audience wants tho....both r at fault
(DR)They r doing fine now hope so they don't disappoint!!
VCHA's pre debut music are growers to be. I prayed to god that there will no prejudice towards the girls especially Camila ans Savanna. Plus now Blackswan is no longer the only non Korean girl group in Kpop. VCHA made history as the first American girl group trained in a kpop system.
JYP is now forming a Japanese boy group in Nizi project's second season.
Congratulations on your special content videos, it's a masterpiece, with fantastic information! I'm your fan from Brazil.
I like your comprehensive analysis of kpop. One of the most important characteristics of kpop is the mixture of various zanres including singing, dancing, fashion, latin, jazz, hiphop, bruce, fandom management and element of Korean culture etc. The hybrid or mixture of different systems is also an important characteristics of The 4th Industrial Revolution.🎉
Anyway, we NEED more girl groups 🫶.
There are plenty of girl groups though, unless you meant western girl groups.
@@crystalsnow1138they did lol
Katsye gonna be top girl pop group you ever witnessed
25:25 idk if bands count as part of the “girl / boy group” renaissance but a sibling band based in nyc called infinity song is starting to come up on the rise
Was not expecting to see my Tik Tok in here 💀💀😂😂😂
C'mon 100k.. 👸💜
Why isn't there a new gen all black girl group....that confuses me. That should've been priority number to atleast set some type of standard.
America (U.S.A) needs to get on that lol. But with the current state of our country I don't think music groups are a priority rn
FLO. Good diversity is also found in Boysworld(american girl group)
There is FLO, Psiryn, The Shindellas, LA’DY
Ngl I think Cristina not debuting with Vcha was a racial issue. If you see one clip of the last episode of A2K one of the staff when choosing members said “she has the look kpop fans like”. We don’t know who the staff was talking about but it’s clear they weren’t just going by talent but looks as well.
what "look" that kpop fans like?
@@katgreer6113 Pale skin with European features is the ideal for some fans. If a kpop idol gets a little bit brown or happens to be brown skin usually bullying follows by "fans" and sometimes members in the same groups. I could list names but tbh don't want to start fan wars.
@@allMinabe haha OK yes I agree. I thought the comment was talking about facial structures and style.
But yeah...fans are pretty sensitive. It's not too hard for me to admit my faves doing wrong but certain fandoms....? Yeah, no. 🤧
@@katgreer6113 Yeah I'm hoping things will change for the better soon🙂
have you seen the final line up for dream academy
YOU'RE GORGEOUS OMFG
Thank youuu 🫶🏾
I wish I heard your opinions about Zboys, Zgirls and Exp Edition
Vcha are still young so idk why some kpop stans complain about their pre debut songs (which is only meant for the show) as kids bop like they are literal teens.
28:58 what group is that i seen them before but i forgot
Niziu
VCHA members are actually talented not flawless when it comes to performance but for no professional training they're actual good 👍
Really interesting video.
I am hoping for more fun or bold concepts not just sexy x cute axis or generic
My take on this is that why are experimenting with the globalization concept on girl groups more as compared to boy groups its not like global boy groups dont exist they do but they are not the hot topic of discussion like girl groups.Personally i would love to see global boy groups as well
Poor (f)x
can anyone tell me what group is being shown at 26:05?
boys world
Kpop, I believe can evolve from Korean pop to Karaoke pop. Maybe 5-7years as it goes more global and more international artists start coming into the fold. History wise it should be taught to newbies the origin was Korean and how it evolved in music school.
Kpop isn't something to be jealous of. It's a commercialization of entertainers, and most aren't artist.
I think that Kpop idols are called idols because yes, they follow the training process and other characteristics of the old Motown groups but in a more strict and "innocent" way (in the sense that Korean and Asian culture itself promotes values of humility, diligence, etc.) unlike American culture, which has been more individualistic. Also, I don't think those old groups are called "idols" since the word emerged later and first in Japan, making clear some differences as well.
Personally I hate any singer/artist being called an "idol" I try to avoid it the best that I can. To me it just sounds like these people should be worshipped because that's my association to the word idol.
@@crystalsnow1138 For me it's kinda the opposite, it's an honor to be called idol (especially in big companies) because it's supposed idols have been training hard until debut, whether singing , raping, dancing, composing or all. Also because they had these rules and image to avoid scandals and letting people know them for their values, talent, being funny, etc instead of controversies like many western celebrities. But obviously there are exceptions and I'm not saying all things koreans see as scandal must be an scandal (for example idols dating), it's just the idea I tried to explain.
@@bunnylae6702 I get it, but I also think it's unrealistic to expect such perfection from anyone.
@@crystalsnow1138 Yeah, it's like they're trying yo reach 'perfection' but any human can be. I think asian (especially koreans) expect that but in my opinion they can make mistakes because they're not perfect. Being an Idol is a constant pressure so if anyone want to stop being called Idol, obviously have the right.
Like now united
How do those A2K girls just move to Korea 😭😭 Do their parents come with them?
Yeah it actually took months for them to go! But atleast one parent has to go with each girl and currently their parents are still with them as the girls stay in hotels after their practices
Also, these "global girl groups" that will emerge, depending on their image, have to be called also as idols, so why not just saying idol groups...? But making clear the difference between typical western groups
So called 'global girls groups' according to their promotions Iz*One and Kep1er and yet😅
Honestly I'm not a fan of the international group members thing.. like idk something feels off about it.. it's kinda brushing off the kpop identity.. this is why I can't take blackswan seriously for example as it strikes like those lazy disney remakes with the race swap is the only noticeable thing about them. Another thing that has been bothering me about kpop is the extreme attempts to appeal to western audiences with the english songs.. a good example would probably be the latest aespa comeback, that was just so disappointing.
@whimsical5325 i'm talking about better things not spicy
This is hilarious 💀 kpop has always been western. There is no “extreme attempts”. You just don’t take Blackswan seriously because they have no East Asians.
It’s annoying when people treat western groups or non Korean groups as a new thing when western groups were literally the blue print for kpop to even begin as an industry
I think people look at non k-pop groups as a new thing. Because unlike k-pop other countries have gone away from groups. So that it is rare to see an actual group. And even the most recent groups have just seem stepping stones for individual members to go solo.
Exactly!
I think people are treating it as a new thing because K-pop is overpopulated with groups to choose from, while in the United States, you have to find them because not a lot of artists want to be in a group compare back in the 2000s and 1990s where you have TLC, Pussycat doll, Backstreet Boys, and ect. Companies don't care to put in effort into making a boy group or girl group as they used to, and a lot of artists would rather go solo than to share money with a bunch of girls.
Actually the Korean idol system also pretty much derived from the Japan idol system that started in the late 70s/80s
@@jase87which itself was using the formula of motown and similar American outfits where experienced musicians and writers gave their music for attractive and well trained young people
I want to see a resurgence in groups. I just hope that they keep their integrity and don’t get exploited. Won’t be easy.
Won’t be easy at all I fear
I don't
@@naomi.cannibal 우선, XG는 K-pop걸그룹이 아닙니다. 그들 스스로 K-pop도 J-pop도 아니라고 부정했습니다.
한국이 거부한게 아니라고요. 그들 스스로를 글로벌 그룹이라고 부르고 K-pop에 속하는 것을 거부했어요. 그러니, K-pop을 다루면서 XG의 영상과 내용을 언급하는 것은 심각한 오류네요. 😅
우리 한국팬들도 저런 주장을 하는 그룹은 처음 생긴 일이라서 그냥 보고 있는데, 한국에는 XG의 홍보방식이 이상해서 한국 팬들은 계속 줄어들고 있죠. 이제는 거의 사라짐. 😅
@@naomi.cannibal KBS 조나단(남매의 한국 예능방송에서 활약)을 검색하세요. K-pop 걸그룹, 블랙스완을 검색하세요. 그리고 당신이 알고 있는 K-pop의 상식을 크로스체크 하세요. 😢
XG절대 K팝 걸그뤂이 아니고 한국인이 프로듀싱하고 한국사람에게 댄스를 배웠을뿐이면 절대 k걸그룹일수없다
Thinking about the Motown school to help with artist development, makes you realize how important it is. It’s crazy how you can see the difference between then and now 😭
One difference: one has social media, the other didn't in a way.
@@yannickjohn6930 that is a difference but there still can be a development even with that. Because you can definitely see the artist development with K-pop idols from their labels with lives. Western industry still living in the old days without trying to keep with the times.
@@dearamari I've seen videos on TH-cam as a result that the western entertainment industry like it's TV shows and music are dead because of Korea and their entertainment industry.
@@yannickjohn6930 mmm I wouldn’t say that around the 2010s a lot of music shows ended in the United States for example 106 and Park, MTV stopped showing music videos, etc. they tried to bring back TRL but no one was watching TV anymore. It wasn’t until the 2010s K-pop started getting attention it has now. The music industry here are trying to find fast ways to make money without thinking about how artists are going to be portrayed to the public; there isn’t longevity in a lot of the artists that we have now in the United States.
@@yannickjohn6930 I don’t at all think the Korean music industry killed ours, moreso they’re aiming to capitalize on the disinterest a lot of younger people have in the music industry over here, for several reasons mostly made by the people in charge at these American labels etc.
Minors should not debut!!
yes!!! vcha just debuted and their maknae is 13!!! that is WAY to young
Don't get me wrong but every Girl group that made it mainstream debuted as Minors or early adults examples: Destiny Child,Little Mix,fifth Harmony & many more
@@malachipatrick-hall1432not 13 though. 16 or 17 is fine if they’re being monitored and have a solid support system, but kaylee is 13 😭
@@nuclearclarity3778 to me personally anything less than 15 is a no
@@malachipatrick-hall143215 is still too young. I’m 17 right now and really into music but I can’t imagine myself being famous at that age. Especially as a girls since teenage girls on the internet are made fun of the most.
With the growing global popularity of Afrobeats, I would love to see a group made of Black and African girls leaning into that sound.
And if Afrobeats wins, soon Amapiano will take the same root. I'm already seeing the it around the Belgium and France nightlife and radio airplay
@@258Louresafrobeats is basically mainstream and amapiano is on the rise, there is space for both genres
Is there an audience for it? Personally, I'd love to see it!
There are a few kpop songs that uses afrobeats tho
@@abigailokoiobuli8945
There is. But honestly the claims of Cultural Appropriation may show its ears so I just prefer Kpop groups to stay away from anything african
Honestly if kpop companies are serious about promotion in the west long term. They should consider investing in bringing music shows back to channels like mtv.
Or come together and create their own music show in the west
I agree! There aren’t many ways for artists to promote in the U.S. anymore outside of social media and late night tv. There are so many talented girl groups that have a hard time breaking into the mainstream bc there’s nowhere to promote. Even in Korea they do things like busking to get their name out, but that would difficult in America unless they’re doing it in L.A. or Times Square.
MTV's TRL needs to make a comeback (one more time) but aired at a different time and also streamed, that was the downfall for its previous resurgence.
With the Grammy Monopoly that artist like : Beyonce, Jay-Z, Taylor Swift and others have in Music I doubt thar Girks Groups will survive or even become popular in US. US music is boring with no imagination and good writers.✌️🥱
they will
I didn’t want to say it, but I can’t overlook the blatant colorism in these global girl groups the K-pop companies are producing. In general, there seems to be a lack of darker skin women in all of these newer girl groups. Not all of them, but enough of them to grant a side eye.
A2k the debuted group for that show to members with melanin seemed to be bleached out with lightening compared to there skin during the show
if korea’s involved.. u know the deal lol. even their darker idols don’t get a break
Only if they don’t turn away someone who is over 18 will there be dark skin idol. You think some people will want to spend their life in a dungeon trained for 8 years? Most of the black singers that are Successful are over 18.
@@motherhoodsbeauty9279 are you implying that dark skin people below the age of 18 don’t exist? I’m confused at your comment.
@@motherhoodsbeauty9279 most black singers debuted at the ripe age of 15 they"ll normally blow-up around the age of 17-23
It’s weird to see black ppl auditioning for a style of music we founded and to be ostracized, repackaged and sold…our own shit.
It's even weirder when people get mad at you for pointing that out.
@@lilliebobson3146 dead ass they get heated as if it’s not a fact
Even WEIRDER how JYP emphasized his inspiration and love for black music, toured the most populated cities in the US for A2k, and didn't run into ONE talented darkskin black girl...Or how Christina, arguably the most evidently African-american (yet still mixed-race) in the series, got cut on the last episode after being endlessly praised for her improvement and potential. I pray the Kpop industry doesn't oversaturate our market and ultimately make us go backwards regarding representation.
@@k_n_c_y honestly I think it’s hitting its peak atm bc it IS over saturated. But it’s the lack of inclusion from something that they’ve managed to take and profit without consulting the originators that’ll be their downfall imo.
yeah like although I don't hate black people for auditioning for these companies. I've always thought about why wouldn't they rather join our own musical industries in our own countries instead of contributing in an industry that takes from us but doesn't see us as equals. We have hip hop, RnB, afrobeats, raeggaton, amapiano, dancehall... I just can't understand why anyone would want to travel to another country and be isolated in an environment where your colleagues and consumers don't reflect yourself.
i hope this new venture in global groups will revive interest in music and dance shows in america/the west
I hate seeing teenagers as idols. I maybe wouldn't have noticed as a kid, but they look like babies. But I guess it's not so different from artists like beyonce, Rihanna, Justin Beiber etc who at least started performing as kids and teens, and will appeal to people their age. It's weird to think that I'm closer in age to the people I listed than to any of these up and coming trainees. But when I was a teen Justin Beiber and 1D were sooo big. When it comes to these things, I hope we don't allow more child idols, I prefer people in their twenties to debut and have some creative control to give the music flavour. Songs go viral all the time, but very few have real staying power. That might be a big ask these days tho.
I have mixed feelings about minors debuting. Like you said so many of today's big stars all started pretty young (before turning 18). I think that as long as the groups no matter their age are bringing in the money it's not going to matter their age to the companies. But I do think the girls/boys who debut as minors should have extra protection. Like less work hours, more check ins about their physical and mental health and receive help if they are struggling, be encouraged to at least finish high school, and of course age appropriate concepts and outfits.
My biggest problem with K-pop right now is the anti blackness. Aside from Fatou, none of these global girl groups have fully black members. I have no issue with the addition of biracial members, but I don’t like how K-pop is using them to reprisent “more easily accepted” versions of black girls. They also don’t want more than one black girl in there groups at a time. Korea is getting used to using tokenism like American media does. K-pop needs more diversity. Another problem is that they only get super skinny girls, but that’s for another day.
I keep thinking this. If you want to go global ACTUALLY represent the globe. White, Latina, East Asian, South Asian(preferably not light skinned), and Black/African(also preferably not light skinned.) Native Americans too, if you can find them.
This is slander.
Korean GGs have Koreans because that's their target audience.
It's not anti-blackness or racism.
Korea is racially homogeneous.
Omg this argument is really stupid, most companies and entertainments who produce groups arent really that financially successful like the big 4, they don't have the time and resources to go around the globe and find a black girl just for the sake of "diversity" Its just stupid really, and even for the bug 4 it shouldn't really be necessary because most black girls dont really know how to be fluent in korean, and the reason most groups dont have black girls is because their targeted audience is korean, not international, unless they're successful in korea first they dont move onto international, and to be successful in korea they have to fit all these standards like being skinny and being beautiful and all those stuff. And also, if you are not fitting those standards you'll get bullied.
I’m hoping that VCHA blows up at least a little bit. Since they are young, I would like for JYP to target a younger audience. We have had a lack of tween and teen based content in the U.S. for years and it would nice for kids to have a musical act they could idolize outside of Olivia Rodrigo and Billie Eilish.
I think that's probably one of the few upsides of having a group with young members/minors is that kids their ages can grow up with them. I remember when I was a kid and most of the artists I listened to were at least in their early 20's so a lot of the subject matter was very adult oriented with occasional explicit lyrics. So finally when younger artists in their teens started coming out it was nice to have music that was more family friendly and fun.
While i see where you're coming from, they are minors and the music industry is very harsh i wouldn't willingly put any child in that situation knowing what can happen behind closed doors.
@@lunam.9640 yeah, I fucking hate that Kaylee got to debut, there is a reason why me and some fans want minors banned from debuting
Honestly im Italian and here we really don't have music shows or anything so I'd want them to be promoted more than just as sponsors for fashion and fragrance brands 😭
But you have Sanremo Festival tho
@@KD_Oliveira yeah but it only lasts one week a year lol, I'd love to see them there tho ahah
@@KD_Oliveirabut it’s ass lol
The idol system was derived from Motown? I guess that makes sense to create a cohesive group
It's been compared to Motown for so long, around a decade. SM wanted his own Michael Jackson from the Jacksons to dominate the music industry.
@@yannickjohn6930 Correct, he was influenced by Motown and the Japanese training system, specifically the ones from Johnny's.
@@MrSuperjam789 Speaking of sexual assault and mismanagement...
@@yannickjohn6930 Lol that's true. Never thought Johnny's would have acknowledged it until that BBC documentary came out.
As a person who loves music and has study and found a lot of old girl groups/solo artists very good I am rooting for BLACKSWAN here. Tho I wish the company just declared Rania disbanded and then form a new group called BLACKSWAN instead of switching the Rania name to BLACKSWAN so that BLACKSWAN would appear fresh as new. But now BLACKSWAN is doing way much better and the company is actually putting in effort on trying to get these 4 girls success. BLACKSWAN has payed the way for all these other kpop girl groups with non Korean members which the kpop community fails to admit just because all the members don't look Korean and aren't korean. Let me remind you people, without hip-hop, kpop wouldn't exist and that's a fact. I would also want to say something about this new group called vcha. Noticed how jyp wanted a international girl group but they train under the kpop system. Same thing with what BLACKSWAN is doing but the skin tones are very different. Jyp is still being racists and it's so sad to see how they brought girls that fit the beauty system. What I'm saying is that it's not really diverse. Dr company was actually bold enough to bring diversity in BLACKSWAN but the kpop community says BLACKSWAN is not kpop just because there is no Korean members or just because sriya and fatou don't fit the beauty standard just because they are "too dark"
Also don't forget about citizen queen. They are also the next line up next to FLO and boys world. Those 3 girl groups are trying to bring back girl groups in America in general and I am all for it. All three are doing great just need more promotion like FLO.
Also noticed how the kpop community is rooting for dream academy but not BLACKSWAN. Funny how ya claim to be supportive but actually behind those smiles of ya's it's actually fake and you guys are still racists. Ya people are the same ones supporting xg just because of the skin tone when xg isn't even a kpop group they just promote in korea because its popular nowadays so they want to reach the success of being a girl group as was said in this video.
But anyways, please support everyone and please have the correct information and don't be like the kpop community who still wants to act dumb and stupid and not do research but also still be racist towards African Americans and dark skin women or women who don't fit the kpop "beauty skin tone standard".
Edit: Basically colorism is involved in this with these new groups coming in along with BLACKSWAN. I forgot the word but my brain decided to remember it after I finished writing this lolol. I hope this all makes sense tho. My point still stands tho.
Just wanted to let you know I love the points made here 💕
Love you for this 🥹 these have been my thoughts exactly 💝
I FEEL YOU GIRL!!
Only thing I hate, is how vcha has minors and the west is less supportive of minors in the industry today
XG top tier gg global another level their songs in english the 4 rappers Maya, Cocona,Jurin,Harvey are so good , Chisa, Juria,Hinata the singers are angels XG CERTIFIED
Personally, I don't think there's going to be renaissance for girl groups, or music groups in general, in America any time soon. The whole "cult of the individual" attitude here is just too strong for any multi-member music groups to do well. Even rock bands are no longer doing well mainstream. American labels go for soloists bc they're cheaper to fund and easier to control while the American general publics loves soloists bc there's only one person that they can prop up as this ~authentic~ superstar that they can stan. I think the A2K and Dream Academy groups will find some kind of success with the niche kpop fans in America but they're not going to flow up with the American GP or anything.
I enjoy Vcha, I was friends with Lexus in school (she was a junior while I was a senior) I have to support, but yeah my biggest interest is promotions and concerts!!
Much love from Milwaukee, Wisconsin!!
Lexus seems so sweet and genuine! ❤
Lexus was one of my favorites right from the beginning of the show and I was so happy when she was selected!
Blackswan😍
Even though XG have training with Korean idol system and their activities mostly in SK but they aren't K-Pop group XG is
R&B HipHop girl group their music and style it's so different.
I’m glad groups are coming back I love the different cultures in them.
Now the thing is with these labels they put them out so fast they don’t give them creative freedom.
I just feel like the groups are so bland …
i definitely want more english speaking pop girl groups to debut
Yess
boysworld is a cool girl group.
Active American Girl Groups: Citizen Queen & Boys World. I recommend both groups. All very talented women, you won't be disappointed 💖
There's more! BELLA DOSE, Say Now, FLO, & H3rizon! Pls check them out if you can❤
i would like to see an american tv network try a show similar to Produce 101, but perhaps only people over the age of 18
It feels so surreal that the korean idol system is being applied to the west who would've thought that this could be happening 10 years ago we are evolving so quickly
k-pop gatekeepers allow artists to rip off other cultures but kpop member/artists have to be korean..?
This is what i've never understand because koreans have shown not to care so what is it with outsiders and their obsession of keeping kpop "pure"
@@ccsbm208exactly like it’s something that I’ve failed to understand
I've always felt like having K-pop groups with both Korean members and foreign members is important. TWICE's Japanese members are popular among Koreans and both Japanese and Korean news outlets have written about the group overall helping to soften Japan-Korea social tensions. Le Sserafim have been working with popular Japanese artists and producers for their recent Japan comeback and K-pop/J-pop collabs have been common ever since the 2nd gen days. It was because of this that when NiziU came around and were so successful in Japan that I was worried K-pop companies would abandon putting Japanese members in their Korean groups. Representation is really important, but obviously it's a double edged sword too, TWICE have had several controversies stemming from their mix of nationalities. I definitely understand the fears of xenophobia for these idols.
What you wrote sounds nice but it was all about the $$$$ the japanese music market can bring into kpop.
@@ChRisu_Ojisan That's what I'm saying though. NiziU's success coincided with a decline in TWICE's popularity in Japan. It made me worried that other K-Pop companies would follow suit because it was what was making the most money.
@@SkyWireMashups they need the japanese market as much as they hate it.
@@SkyWireMashups I will say that TWICE is still popular in Japan, they have done stadium shows there(and they have a couple near the end of the year on their tour) and their sales have climbed back up. NiziU of course is still doing well in Japan(they just did a stadium show a week ago). JYP has really hit the jackpot with their groups.
@@MrSuperjam789 Yes, I pay very close attention to Japanese music charts and it seems like these groups are able to coexist quite easily, which I'm happy about
While I hope that the groups are prosperous in their careers, these K-pop companies think they can do the same system in the West that Korea took inspiration from when the Western musical landscape is ABSOLUTELY different. I believe that is the reason why FLO (and maybe XG at the beginning, but I don't know about now) is truly the only group as of now that actually feels like a global group since they are trendy in the US, South America, Europe, and part of Southeast Asia, mainly because there are little to no R&B groups popping as much as they are. We are entering an era where more Western groups are returning, but it will take time for them to be on the same level as solo artists.
The right creative direction and pr is what any new global group would need they shouldn't take it as child's play or the group will flop
Only the best they should source for when creating a global group unless they want all their efforts to go down the drain
Not only that, but the types of music + image the general public prefer is very different in the west vs. Korea. I feel like in Korea, lowkey no matter the age of the group, they seem to prefer a very squeaky-clean, "pure" kind of vibe. Definitely go for looks over talent. Whereas in the west the more mature look and sound is more popular, even if they go for the whole "good girl" vibe. Which I feel like is very evident in how BlackPink seems to be quite popular with the gen-pop if you take away the k-pop fans. However, I don´t think they would be as popular if they were an american or british girlgroup, cause people would FOR SURE get very sick of the repetitivness of their sound and look, and how it hasnt seemed to evolve since debut. And the rapping would get ripped apart let´s be honest lol.
Another things is also whoever is writing these english lyrics really need to change it but cause alot of these english songs coming from the k-groups have such awkward lyrics that dosent really flow. And the topic is very suface-level-
@@babyballer3105
The korean and asian groups bring fun , joy and pop to an over sexualized, rap focused , kinds wild and promiscuous western music . That clean image is something a lot of people will like , trust me.
@@kant.68yeah looking at the endless discourses on the male gaze and how "sex scenes shouldn't exist cause they are irrelevant to the plot" and "stop sexualizing minors" and the kink-shaming and the celebration of "unproblematic" celebrities etc. that are super popular among younger generations in the West, the "clean" image will in fact appeal to a lot of people as long as the music is good. Sex always sells for some demographics but currently there is a strong demographic that is forming a backlash to that and want a kind of maturity in their media that seem less exploitative of women's bodies. Hybe actually hit that kind of sweet spot with Le Sserafim. They are mature without being too "adult" and they just seem to be confident young women. In their current contest for their new global girl group they had the contestants sing and dance to Le Sserafim's songs Fearless and Antifragile, and all 4 of the teams on that mission fit the image of those songs pretty damn well. Even when lookign at the behind the scenes and seeing the girls train, goof around and talk about the songs, it's obvious that Le Sserafim's image relates very naturally to teenage girls and young women.
Having maturity without oversexualization is probably gonna be a hit in the west. What they are less likely to vibe with is the overtly cute innocent concept that just seem too childish and is often off putting over here when it's done by grown women.
I grew up watching British music shows like Top of the Pops and CDUK, I don’t hear many people talk about this aspect as most people focus on USA, but many countries used to have music shows! So it’s natural for people to seek this out now that it’s not part of the culture in those countries anymore. TOTP was the worlds longest running weekly music show and finished in 2006.
Oh i totally forgot about motown school
We need that to make a comeback in the west cause a lot of our current mainstream artists can't perform
I'm happy as long theres an effort of making western groups comeback in the pop culture again...its been a while now. Now that it was so boring of what was going on in our pop music these days.FLO are my fav rnb group right now and i hope they will break more records in the future❤
I wish they can debut adult groups more often so they can be some variety
I want to see this too!
Yep, *FUCK MINOR IDOLS!*
Blackswan were the blueprint (dark skin & brown skin idols) & success for non-Kop group, that's why JYP started the A2K group (no brown/dark skin idols). Giving JYP side eye for his inspirations & actions👀👀👀
I’m so glad you talked about the Motown system because I genuinely had no idea about it!