Have We Lost Sight Of What Makes Classic... Classic? | Asmongold Reacts
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- by @WillEmmo • Have We Lost Sight Of ...
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The biggest problem with wow expansions was adding new rushed gated areas rather than expanding Azeroth itself. The core world felt neglected and unfinished in areas, story and quests just fizzled out and got overshadowed by the raid boss of the week. Then when they did go back to the main world they completely rebuilt it destroying all the connection you had to it. Then they abandoned it again.
I didn't mind leaving Azeroth tbh, if they kept expanding probably we would run out of room in the maps, but I didn't like that the new zones where just a one way trip and then they're useless, they should put something to make it worth going back there
Yes playing sod shows me how much work went into Azeroth. It’s huge. Outland could have come 2-3 years later with no issue
Nuking Undercity/Brill was the last straw for me.
@@Elleeekk thats not true or the can slightly add onto the continent if u look at oldschool runescape they are constantly adding onto the same area and adding small expansions but they always have content in classic areas for high levels there are ways to do it but they just arent
I 100% agree, in retrospect I feel like going to Outland first was a very strange move, when there were so many unopened areas that didn't make it to Vanilla like Hyjal, Quel'thalas, etc.
well when you come out with “classic”, and then continue to just re-release all of the expansions, isn’t “losing sight of what makes classic classic” just bound to happen?
2035: WoW Classic Dragonflight
@@189Blakeclassic Legion
Rereleasing their greatest hits is all Blizzard has left.
Classic classic...fckn stupid! U can play all expansions on retail. There will be players!!!!
People started really wanting "classic" right around when cataclysm released. Why they expect cata classic to do well is beyond me.
Vanilla always had a Tolkien-like feel to me. I remember running around places like BRD just in awe of the environment. WoW has never recaptured that for me. But there’s just something about Vanilla. They really struck something, and I’m clearly not the only one feeling that.
Even TBC had a completely different vibe than vanilla. I think flying mounts was the beginning of the end.
I cannot wait for classic The War Within
We'll all be great grandpas by then lol
@@Puppetmaster2005 Some of us will be. The rest will still be parsing 99's in MC and thinking they're hot shit.
I can't wait for Alliance High Elves and Broken , Horde Orges and Hozen , in their 3 expo . but Blizzard all ways giving us some shite we didn't ask for lol
We'd be in our early 60s??? 😢
Classic 3.0 before the war within classic
16:40 - there are SO many of us who were avid WoW players at launch 18 years ago...who are now middle aged dudes with families...who still love the WORLD of warcraft and just want to experience it to destress from work. We're not interested in min/max'ing. Turning off Warmode has been an absolute blessing...I enjoy world pvp, but some days I just literally dont have the energy to deal with griefers.
So much this :) When I start playing in Vanilla I just wanted to get max gear on all slots. Now I dont care. Love to be lazy. Running around, sometimes LFR/LFG, or a simple mythic run. The min/maxing gear is out of the picture for a long time due to a family and such.
I just wish they would give us permanent wrath classic servers. This is the only thing that pisses me off about blizzard right now.
This is the difference between old school MMO fans and modern MMO fans. Old school MMOs were simulated worlds, mostly unconcerned with convenience, and are more about creating virtual explorable sandbox worlds (with light, subtle funneling into key content locations) where players create their own emergent gameplay in a relaxed, fun, and fulfilling way. The content isn't hard, and it isn't any worse for it, It's just a fun game and a big world to play and be immersed in w/ other ppl, this is how MMOs were intended in this earlier era of MMOs.
Modern MMOs are just the husks of old school MMOs, they wear the skin of old school MMOs, they superficially appear to still be MMOs, but their worlds are just glorified lobbies. You teleport to ultra-hard content spots (or fly over the entire world in a perfectly straight line at 400+% speed straight to the instance portal) with minimal social interaction and you go there to dick measure and be hyper competitive against other people, and to be ruthlessly and pointlessly tested on your skills (and on your ability to download a hundred addons) while repeating the same single piece of ultra-hard (for what reason?) content over and over, week after week. Then the patch comes out and all previous content is effectively wiped and irrelevant. Modern MMO fans are actually proud of their performance in this bullshit, all while they pay the company making it extra hundreds of dollars for gold and cosmetic items that every game ever made before the year 2010(ish) would let you earn yourself for free thru gameplay. These people are just like lab rats on treadmills with this modern, pointlessly hard and predatory content, and they defend it and think they're better for putting themselves thru this CBT. They're shit eaters and have the audacity to have an ego over how much modern shit they consume.
The people saying "Classic is too easy" don't realize how that's actually a good thing. All they know is their ultra-hard, exploitative, CBT filled modern MMO, they think anything easy is bad. They're basically psyop'd by how bad modern games are, their frame of reference is solely this modern garbage.
I think this whole "easy" and "hard" debate grounds of misunderstanding. While many people say, that they like Classic because it's harder, they mean the leveling experience took more effort, time and felt more like a path you go with your character. When retail players say, classic is easy, they mean the raids, which is also true. But for me, it's not about how hard a raid is. I never did a mythic dungeon etc. I love MMO RPGs. I want to play my own character in a fantasy world.
I played recently a new character on retail to give it a chance. Made around 20 levels per day. Felt like nothing special. Killed dozens of enemies, skipped cut scenes, because I just didn't care. I got 70 and had no relationship with my character.
When I leveled my old Draenei Priest in WotLK with my girlfriend, we made so many memories. We met people helping us out with some quests, searched with us for some enemies, we just watched the sunset together, there were famous guys on the server everybody knew and it was crazy when you saw them chillin in Dalaran or SW.
I don't know why, but somehow, these things went missing.
Asmon is 100% right.
I'll use myself as an example.
Every few years, I think to myself to try to get back into world of warcraft. I really should be the target audience since it's my type of game... but so much about it really turns me off.
Things like:
-Addons
-Parcing
-Guilds and having to form a schedule around content.
-Raid gatekeeping
-Multiple raid difficulties.
-Loot distribution (how do we not have tokens to buy the gear if the item refuses to drop or you are at the bottom of the friends list and are destined to get it last)
-PvP is horrible if you don't have the gear and to get the gear you have to be severely punished for way too long.
-Mythic plus and having to do it daily.
-Insane amounts of buttons needed for rotation.
-Servers (Some servers are dead and some are only faction focused, meaning I have to research before playing)
It turns the game into a horrible second job and I have a wife I want to spend time with.
Classic was easier, most of the time It just turned into raid logging once I achieved the latest content.
Nobody in retail cares about parsing unless you’re doing mythic raids which is supposed to be the hardest content. Addons are unnecessary if you take 5 minutes to read the boss abilities or google a boss guide usually 3 minute long videos. Guilds are a social aspect of a game which mmos are designed to be social. You don’t have to do M+ daily. Rotations have like 5-8 buttons already it’s not difficult you have builders and spenders. The game really isn’t that hard I can pug aotc every patch and my friends who just started playing wow for the first time this patch pugged aotc with details being there only addon.
So you dislike actually playing the game, lol.
@@ForOne814 Yeah, and that's why I'm not playing it any more.
What a surprise, right?
Do you know what you want about the game ? Because if you plan to play casually, most of this is not true. You are just plaggued by the min maxing virus of modern online video game where you need to check everything, have all the tools that everyone use, how the best are playing etc
Addons: High level ppl play with base blizz UI, some of them (i also) can predict abilities that a boss will cast after some pulls base on what they say, this is very common and pretty well made most of the time by Blizzard
Having to form a schedule around content : well that's literally here since the dawn of WoW and all MMO, the f you are going to form a group of 20 to 40 individuals to clear a raid that is above your ilvl unless you invite full randoms and pray that they are not complete shit
Raid gatekeeping : yeah was there in classic too, might be even worse
Multiple raid difficulties : that's literally make you able to do and learn a raid without being gatekeep lol. I learn most fight base mecanics of the last raid in LFR and now im clearing it in mythic
Loot : what friend list ?? we had pretty much nothing before except shit coins to use on boss and now we have : crafting + crest (drop at low level and upgrade a high) + weekly vault + dinars in last patch of the xpac
PvP : don't have an opinion, im not a pvp boy but gear is very accessible now with the pvp vendors
Mythic + : how is it daily ? do you mean doing 8 keys ? you don't have too but if you want to min max you can but plz stop forcing yourself to do something you don't like. Most of the time i do like 1 or 4 keys a week to get something but in early season i will do a lot but because i enjoy it more
Buttons : there is 4 to 6 buttons in a rotation (not counting cds being more than a minute) unless you play brewmaster or arcane mage and the latter is still a min maxing thing, you can play arcane mage without all this long ass burst phase played perfectly
Servers : servers ? faction focused ? i don't get it, factions will not matter and already doesn't right now and it's the same for servers, you can play with anyone. Only issue is craft, guild and HV
People saying this is for min maxing never played WoW. You will get weak aura checked and kicked if you dont have weak aura. They enforce addons which is why i quit. Non addon for life
Ahhh yes Asmons natural habitat. Wow videos
this is asmon at his best, hell yeah wow content
Yeah this old ass series has a love hate relationship like all activision/ blizzard properties
He has such an immense knowledge about the game that it's always enjoyable
What made classic, classic was the community, and the Era. Back then, I never encountered group that would ask what my exp is or anything like that. Just simply, "hey, wanna group up to kill this elite?" Or "hey, let's do this dungeon". Everyone was very helpful and kind back then. Most people now are entitled, selfish pricks.
Nah people did ask about your exp, but so they know who needed advie/help, not to turn them down
You're probably not remembering things correctly/childhood bias.
@jamespadgett8660 idk about that. But having everyone not know how to play the game made it more enjoyable as well. Only a few percent actually knew what they were doing. I don't recall as much toxicity as there are today. Today it's normalized to be sarcastic and unhelpful. If you see someone dying, people just let them. I don't ever recall that back then. Whenever I was dying, people would jump in to save me.
Yepp.. Back then it was about a new feeling, the journey, exploration. Now it's all focused on minmaxing, parcing etc.. Kinda takes away the magic from a mmo
@@brandonboss6868 It would entirely depend on your server. If you're looking for a sense of community, I'd definitely recommend a RP server. RP servers generally have players that care about more than your max DPS, etc.
The game being unknown also helped because no one knew what the right way to do it was.
Its called "the Road to retail". such a bait and switch. Classic ends once the lich king is dead
Classic ended after TBC, WotLK was already a shitshow
Where's the bait and switch? The word 'classic'? Is that all really all it takes to bait someone?
@@patricks.6389 nah dude classic ended when scarab lord was claimed
@@CL-jq1xs I'm sure you will buy all the over priced editions for the privilege of playing the same content again. And you will give blizzard a pass and say where's the bait and switch y'all
@@stebansan this. Classic ends when aq gear is added to the game. Tier 2 is the perfect power level.
"dozens of people enjoyed the New World expansion" lmaoooooo
Wrath doesn't feel classic to be honest. Wrath introduced everything that Cataclysm would become known for, and I'm not talking about dungeon finder, I'm talkin about the insanely good loot that's easy to come by in dungeons which makes leveling obsolete in the sense of how easy it is, not to mention "heirlooms" which kill the need for regular gear and thus removes the need to run dungeons beyond a single run. The only reason dungeons have some re-playability in Wrath is because dungeon finder offers XP bonus + random gear for using it.
i was so hype for cata back in the day. i remember binge watching totalbiscuit playing the beta
Did you enjoy it when it was released?
There are SOOOO many people whi enjoyed Cataclysm. Far more people than we are lead to believe.
@@SeanKonneri hell yeah I skipped all of 10th grade to play 🤣
Damn the total biscuit nostalgia wave just hit, forgot about him 💔
As a HVAC Certified Electrician I agree
I just wanted to stay in tbc era or wotlk era guess i cant have that
I mean....there are ways.
Google warmane
I'm with you, I miss TBC.
my plan was to stay in TBC, i was not rushing the content at all and even ended my sub when my server died... Blizzard treated TBC servers so disgusting from the beginning with level boost and making you pay if you want to copy a character from classic era and bring it to tbc, just trying to milk the nostalgia $ as hard as possible.
TBC deserved better
Stormforge has a pretty solid TBC server if you're looking.
its like pirated version offers a better experience, warmane having 50/50 horde alliance, world PVP, and people everywhere, I mean literally better than the original
my friends and I all play on my modded server with NPCbot addon and some other QoL improvements and it's a blast. We've all played aniwow, burning wow, warmane, etc. Of course there's not shit for pvp on server but at least we don't need people to do 40man raids when we can equip and gear our bots out. Its kind of involving and time consuming to equip and gear all your bots but its still fun. Had to make them a hacked tabard with crazy defense stats I give each one coz they just stand in every aoe and don't know to avoid it. I absolutely despise pve with randos or in big groups. Got burnt out on that leading raids for 7 years on Dark Age of Camelot. Bad enough I get stuck with randos on League and wow battlegrounds. Patch 3.5.5a for life.
I know a lot of people that still play wow but not a single one of them is dumb enough to cuck out and give blizzard money for it. Too many better ways to play it, blizzard is the example of how not to do WoW.
Yep mate, since the moment blizzard announced Cata I just go back to warmane. Cata wasn't bad expansion but still its end of classic Era, thats totally destroy Classic idea.
@@SpacierShark123 Man I am planning on it. Blizz not adding permanent wrath classic servers pisses me off to no end.
I am going to have to check out the private wrath servers for warmane. Just curious if there is a server that functions like a normal ass server from 2009 from blizzard. Like no huge major exp gains or any of those metrics. I just want a regular ass server.
private servers are trash. sorry not sorry
@@nutterbipple no you
SOD is just becoming more and more like retail
SoD has always been closer to retail than classic.
You babies have ERA, go play that.
sod is best classic verison atm
SoD is Retail minus
Hardcore is best version. Sod is fun but community is nasty.
It's certainly not the parsing culture & requiring BIS to go a levelling dungeon. Feels to me the retail culture has permeated classic to its determent and I don't think there's any recovery from it.
It's not retail or classic culture. It's internet culture in general. If you're not playing the meta, what are you doing?
@@ZaerdinGaming Imagine having fun playing the class & spec I like to is "bad".....
@@michaelreid5307 I understand what you're saying, but I'm not saying its retail culture invading classic. I'm stating that it's internet culture, in general, about always following every video game meta.
"Season of discovery" is not the classic game people were begging for.
That's good. I love it.
Still better than retail.
The way they added these incursions makes u wonder if the devs ever played the game themselves.. Might aswell add torghast next phase
still better than classic
What's odd to me is why don't they do a Classic Era fresh server? There are a ton of players who would spend the next two years playing through all the phases yet again like we did 5 years ago.
no one wants that itll be dead they did that with wotlk and all those servers died
As someone who played Era even when TBC launched all the way through to SoD and am considering throwing in SoD for era again.
Something a lot of the players there feel is that they have a character there that will stay there forever and there is no rat race for gear. It is forever there where they can log on and have fun. They can go see other games and come back and their progress is exactly where they left it where their next upgrade is exactly the same as before. What makes era good is the lack of new content so you have plenty of time to get all the gear in Nax or however far you want to push until you stop gearing and just focus on having fun on your character in PvE or PvP.
They don't want a fresh unless they know you will keep that character on Era later, which when Season of Mastery came out, we didn't know if our characters would transfer to Era until much much later.
Something I personally want (heavy on the *personal* part) is a fresh realm that is just classic except add a new race and have it go onto era servers after nax has been out for a bit. Or just add a new race to era and let people level that at their own pace and gear it at their own pace as people still do on era servers.
@@TheChosen1onex It didn't help that LFG was intentionally removed so people can 'learn to socialize' when it launched either. I was ready to finally play the expansion fully through and then they left out LFG and decided im good.
Ragnaros answer it perfectly: Too soon. Maybe there will be era fresh start. But in many years. The classic got so hyped because it was 15 years after the game. Now we are 5 years from that where we have era realms, had fresh servers with SOM, got HC realms and now we have fresh era launched servers again from level 1 with SOD. Maybe in like 10-12 years it will be good idea. Nobody will want to slowly grind to 60, do all reputations, atunements, farm all the resist gears, honnor system, profesions, grind their gold for epic mount, getting spawncamped on black lotuses with devilsaur mafia and more just to raid onyxia and MC for half a year and than getting honnor system with no BGs. It is the same reason why they didn't kept tbc or now wrath servers and why SOM failed. You need a long time for people to play it back for nostalgia or make the game different. Era realms were dead for like a year until they got playerbase kinda back and the big era boom came with hc which people created just because they wanted some new way how to play the game which they love and thats why it sucseeded and why SOD is so popular as well.
like we did 20 years ago.
Mfw the space between vanilla and cata is the same space as classic to now
Aware
I said it when it first start and I'll say it again. They are going through expansions quicker to catch people up to the newest expansion and combine "new" and "old" players.
That's not going to happen anytime soon.
Cata was my first WoW expansion and since i was a kid i had no money paying a sub so i played it on private server and was one of the best gaming experience i have ever had up until that point. Cata Classic will be a chance for me to reconnect and also play it for the first time properly, i'm overly excited tbh.
This is what I predicted forever ago. You start with Classic and keep going. People told me they'd never have Classic Cataclysm, but I said of course they would. In the past, Warcraft's goal was to release an expansion every year but they never could manage to meet that goal. The easiest way to meet that goal now is to do Classic expansions on odd years and regular expansions every 18m to 24m.
We will even have the Classic Worldstone saga at one point, and it'll likely have whatever pain points we run across smoothed off a bit. Not only that, I predicted they would re-release Classic when Classic Cataclysm came out (as a lot of people, like Asmongold, consider the first 3 games the saga).
While that prediction hasn't come true, I do imagine that we'll eventually re-release Classic. It'll be everyone's chance to do high school over a third time and do even better.
Asmons thumbnails are always hilarious 😂 like the one on this video makes him look like he is contemplating some deep time lost ancient truth of the universe but its just about the state of 20+ year old video game 😂
I think 1 big Problem of WoW Classic like SoD is that raiding should be little bit harder. but we need to get away with all that farming for buffs, addons, rezzing and rebuffing, running back to the boss for 10min... so put 10h Work in something that not make fun for raiding 1h... make so sense.
Issue to me is the fact with seasonal, and not permanent realms ect.. getting stuff thats isnt nessesery to play seems pointless.. collectives and stuff. Completly pointless to get when u know ur gna lose it in 1 year and start over.
Doing it for fun. I have an OG WoW account that has a lot of collectibles, and now that I'm 40 you realize it means nothing. You don't need that crap for a game to be fun, simply enjoy the game.
0:40 Sixteen debuff slots were added in Vanilla.
Asmon showing again that he never raided before BC.
They really should launch fresh servers.
I missed the Classic launch and I would like to play through the experience.
It never should have gone past classic wrath
I’ve wanted tbc era since wrath launched. I hope the make one
Stormrage
Doubt it man. They hate us classic players.
These videos overlook my people:
People who wanted to find a home in Classic to play a more relaxed game where parsing wasn't everything but it got taken over by people who make parsing everything and want to make it harder so they can...flex I guess?
I USED to be a fairly hardcore raider. I cleared challenging content. I am confident in my abilities and could do that content again if I wanted to but man those days are behind me. I just want to engage with the game as a RPG again but there doesn't appear to be a version of the game that allows for that anymore.
world of warcraft stole EVERYTHING from everquest
I've been playing EQ since 1999. I have max level characters on P99, Quarm, and several Live servers.
But while it is true WoW coped EQ's homework, it did very nearly everything better.
vanilla > wrath were the 'holy trinity' to me, for some reason or another.
Magic in a bottle, at least for myself.
I wish they'd release fresh classic servers. People still die all the time during Cata Timewalking
lol please no
No point
agreed
Please yes! I want to go through all the rollouts, i want the war effort cloth drop-in, i want a chance at the clusterf*ck the AQ opening will be! Then, after a while, upgrade the realms to TBC, then wotlk and so on.
Edit: and by "so on", I mean, do it all over again. No cata, ever, never. The sundering was a huge mystake, they should have just improved the textures, added content/eye candy to the empty unaccessible zone and added slower flying mounts (due to the zones beying much smaller than outland)
Is this a joke? Between pservers/hc/mastery there's been fresh classics basically each month for the past 2 years
I joined a gnomer run with 7 people from the same guild , lvl 50 players doing the lvl 40 raid, and they tried to do the last boss 4 times before giving up. The last boss was the only one I needed lol. Sometimes I forget just how average the average player can be
On a private server some time ago, doing this phased content release for a WOTLK era server (i forget the name) we were running SM at level 30, completed all stages. It was difficult but not impossible. Not going to pretend we didnt wipe from time to time.
But your story is crazy, sometimes I wonder if what they call the "competency crisis" in the working world isn't just a euphemism for the mass brain damage and the soft bigotry of low expectations that enables half asleep idiots to keep floating along.
@Pekopekope And it wasn't like they wanted help working out what was going wrong it was literally "sorry guys, I don't think we can do this" and bailed. Remarkable.
It's funny when WoW Andys want the "Hardcore MMO experience" of Wow Vanilla back.
That shit was like Timmy's first MMO at the time. It was the casual-friendly alternative to hardcore MMOs.
Really tells ya how watered down the experience has become nowadays
Blizzard should take a note out of jagex playbook with osrs. Pick a timeframe of wow classic and build around that. Stop at lich king and build around that
I don't know how Asmon and his audience can put up with regurgitating the same WoW points month in and month out as if it's the first time they're being articulated.
We already figured out what was wrong with WoW. Most people watching these videos probably don’t play.
@kennethflaming8606 He really needs to stop coping and play another mmo... like I've mained gw2 for years at this point. It's not perfect, but it has everything he wishes WOW did.... but he refuses to play it because of his obvious addiction to WoW. And because he saw his friend play it for hours, probably like 8 to 10 years ago. The game has dramatically changed, combat included, since his friend played it.
I just go play WoW when I want to have fun in an old-school sorta way. I didn't expect dragon flight to be some sort of revolutionary experience, I just played it for fun. It's not like raids are even that hard anymore. Sure you will have failures but they don't feel like some impossible challenge. But it's not a game anymore where I'm willing to shell out 60 dollars for an expansion and then a 15 dollar monthly every single time. Blizzard lost that right a long time ago. I even got most of my expansions for free as a please come back email lol. 😂
Gw2 asks so little for their expansions with a much smaller team and give so much more in return. They shouldn't be better then Blizzard to such a high degree when you compare resources. But the fact is... they are. And no maps are every permanently dead, they all serve a purpose. So you always see players everywhere. So yeah that's my take is all.
@@americancapitalist9094 most people that were playing WoW don't play either
we just like the sound of his voice, and the tears of the people crying about it in the comments
It's the same with people like Wille who are just dying for a re-re-release of the exact same game so they can post the exact same guides about the exact same classes with the exact same talent trees and builds minus a few tidbits that change based on whatever disgusting season Blizz have introduced.
It's become a viscous circle of people passing the same stale piece of fruit around, each taking a bite.
Well yeah of course it stopped at Wrath. After Wrath was completed, a lot of the original development team from the very beginning either retired or went to do other projects. They felt they finished their legecy with Wrath and passed on the torch.
You made a very good point. The majority of WoW players are not Hardcore Gamers. They are everyday people. So what Blizzard is doing is catering to the minority of their fan-base.
I think people are misunderstanding the entire "hard" aspect when it comes to raiding. When ST came out people were in there 6-10hours doing that shit. I understand its fun to over come the challange. However, MOST people can't invest that kind of time in one sitting. That would be impossible for me to do right now, so that just locks me out of any groups. No shot i could say "i can come for 2-3 hours then ill leave". I woud never get an inv.
they are training the soddies for retail wow for sure
indeed. The "home that feels right for them" will be the next retail wow expansion lol.
I thought we would just have some minor adjustments to the classes in SoD along with so much more in the world like unused zones and dungeons, bgs, etc. but instead SoD has actually turned into a giant clown fiesta and it grinds to a halt every phase. I think it was a worthwhile attempt.
Adding abilities from later expansions like penance and starsurge was kinda ridiculous. These abilities have been extremely unbalanced and not adjusted to the classic version. This is really lazy writing imo. Also choosing the most boring dungeons for raid was really lame.. Good effort but room for improvement
Era grew during Naxx in Wrath, not just because of Ulduar. People went from having a super rewarding Sunwell experience to experiencing the worst tier they have ever released in retail WoW history in Naxx25m. It wasn't just ulduar that killed it.
Launch of Wrath and the length of ulduar killed Woltk for me. Coming back for Cata, there's alot ALOT of NEW wow players coming for cata
The Ulduar phase was just way too long, second time Wrath made me quit from getting boring. ToC got me first go around
people dont want classic, people want what they _remember_ to be classic. which is why no changes died very fast. the classic in their heads never existed which is why we have gotten to this point. along with the fact that there is no one definition of "classic", you ask 100 people and you will get 100 definitions of what classic is. Read the comment section, and you will know I dont lie.
Ur based AF
Wrong. Blizz made those changes with little to no input from the players. They made the changes unilaterally in preparation to increase cash flow… in game shop, the token, level boost, etc.
@@rockhopper01 changes were not being discussed here. He’s talking about the definition/concept of classic
Really good point actually. You see people complain about things in SoD that are actually vanilla features (for example the warsong rep grind). People only remember the best parts of Classic
Season of discovery is exactly what's needed, the core of classic with no micro transactions but fresh updated content . They just need to take feedback and release new stuff
Classic ends with the end of Wrath. Cataclysm isn’t classic.
Classic ends with burning crusade, flying mounts were a mistake
@@zefini Your almost 20 years to late, we are talking about classic not vanilla.
Classic ended with vanilla. Wotlk isn't classic.
@@CL-jq1xs Nah. When Azeroth was reworked is the end of classic.
Cata > WotLK
"There was more content in Legion Archaeology than in all of the Shadowlands professions"
Even BFA had the Epic Tools.
Sad that "no changes" became a meme and the underlying sentiment died. Back in 2003, the game had passionate devs and GMs which resulted in one of the best games of all time. We got a brief glimmer of that again with classic, but ultimately there was no passion or GMs to uphold the integrity of the game. It became a bot-fest and blatant issues like the tryhard meta, toxic PvP, and worldbuff griefing went unattended. "No changes" is less literal than it sounds, it's a warning against the very things that manifested in the level boost of TBC, the WoW token of WoTLK, and the poor balance of SoD. If you ask me, we never had "no changes" because the fundamental pieces of that philosophy, passionate devs and GMs, were never there.
I want to get right into Max level content and BiS gear for PvP. Right now trying SOD (36 lvl) but too much grinding still and your time is wasted on a Flight path or boat somewhere. No QoL which is why people don't play it. People want to play WoW but for 1 hour after work and they should be able to log in and start killing or Que a dungeon instantly. The problem with Classic is it doesn't fit into society and people lives anymore. Running to get Flight paths isn't fun anymore. Spending 30 mins trying to get somewhere is just waiting to play the game. It's a shame Retail isn't a good MMO because they got good QoL but it's a bad game. Classic is a good game but wasted your time due to lack of required QoL.
It's quite uncanny how the progression of WoW's lifetime mirrors Runescape. I think Jagex did the right thing by adding old school runescape. In fact it struggled initially as well, it was through in game updates and expanding on the game to the monolith that it is now that made it THE mmo, completely overshadowing RS3. Blizzard should definitely make WoW Classic Plus (permanent additional content to era) but there are some guidelines though. They need to examine what the underlying issues were with future expansions- namely the constant stacking of vertical content making the core original game obsolete, leaving an artificial husk of an open world. Furthermore, having permanent changes to era will be met with some resistance by the playerbase. It happened with OSRS with a vocal group of ultra-conservative players who want 0 changes to the game. It will happen with WoW. Often times in OSRS some updates are changed, modified, or outright canceled if they warp the game too much in a way that stops the game from being "old school." This isn't a bad thing. The dev team is pretty competent at being able to distinguish what made old runescape great and new runescape bleed out the playerbase. I hope the Blizzard team can identify the same things and make a WoW Classic Plus that the players deserve.
if they kept a realm for older expansions as they progressively go to the next one would be amazing, dont know why they do that to vanilla and dont for tbc and wotlk
WoW and Marvel are very similar if you think about it. Warcraft up to Wotlk is basically the Endgame timeline and no one really cares about anything after
Disney and Blizzard have a way of decimating their IP’s 😂
and both companies have ended up catering their product to the smallest most vocal group.
Disney pandering to the woke mob and Blizzard pandering to the ultra hardcore.
@@ade5691 Blizzard caters to the woke mobs to lol.
@@qunt100 Yeah, I know. Any other pointlessly obvious remarks?
Let's be honest here. The hardest part about SOD raids is getting in to them. The gatekeeping is way harder to beat than the bosses. Once you get past precis, 2 world buffs, consumes, parses, and not needing the same gear as the raid lead, you're good to go.
Doesn't matter with the rabid farming/bots. I would resub in a heartbeat if I could farm herbs/ore.
Reworking the talent trees was the last straw for me. It broke all my characters....especially my spirit priest.
To be fair Sargeras was a loose end that wasn't tied up by WC3, but I wish they just did the entirety of Legion right after WotLK
Cata was the first time i took a break from WoW. I am not touching that again.
Why? What did you not like about Cata
@@skimask5933 Boring and grindy. There was nothing to do really and the few things you could do was just taking ages to complete. They focused almost all resources on re-making the world and did not focus on end-game at all almost.
The dungeons where boring (not hard, just boring and took a long time to do). The raids where okay for like the first few resets and then got tedious because they where boring. Firelands where the biggest snoozefest they have ever made (that i played when it was current), i heard the last raid was even worse. But i never played that when it was current.
The only thing i liked with the expansion was the title "Slayer of Stupid, Incompetent and Disappointing Minions" but sadly it was only on you for like 30-60minutes or something like that so not permanent.
EDIT: Oh, and i prefer the old world over the new one even though the new is better for leveling speed.
"Why Nobody's Excited For Cata Classic"?
Because it's not Classic by any shape or form. Anything after Wrath is Retail. Period.
Some might even say anything after Vanilla is but I'll say Vanilla/Tbc/Wrath is the "holy classic trio".
By saying "classic cata" we might as well start saying "hey inc Classic Dragonflight 2030".
I am still leveling in classic because I never got to hit 60 in vanilli. I just can't get into SOD.
How many wives and jobs do u have
I can’t bring myself to play SOD either. Classic is enough.
My fam and I came back to Wow and were going to play Lich king, but once we realized it's going to be gone soon, we went to Hardcore Classic instead. I wish they kept TBC and Lich king servers around.
The old gods are mentioned in the warcraft 3 manual, 5 old gods funnily enough
I think people want the romantic nostalgic version of what they think they remember classic being.
if ppl didnt metagame it would be fine but thats not how life works
Nah vanilla is just an actually solid mmo and modern mmos ain’t it! The “it’s nostalgia!” argument doesn’t hold up.
@@mrsn3sbit888you metagamed in classic/vanilla too. This wasnt some magical time where it didnt happen. You just were likely too casual too see it.
No lol vanilla is genuinely just a better game than SoD is. Pvp is better, pve is better, people know the game and it's fun.
Phasing levels is one of the biggest scams I've seen Blizz do that you idiots lap up.
@@tubesismyeah no
Classic+? Give me death knight in Classic+!
If every expansion Blizard updated some or added new zones to the old world for leveling or end game content the game would feel so much more alive and larger by now. Instead they focus their development on Island zones which no one has reason to go to after that expansion is over, while the old world still uses 20 year old assets.
The only reason I liked the tight knit communities of pre cross realm was because trolling in trade was much more cool that way. I liked being known by the whole server along with a few brothers in arms, wether we were hated or loved.
Kinda ironic that a guy who makes guides for each class, before each classic addon release, is making a video about losing sight of classic
Gotta make those checks somehow
You're being farmed kiddo
blizzard should just do what everquest is doing with progression servers
thats why legion popped, you could progress with Worldquests and dungeons and not have to raid
Still needed raids for tierset
I refer to Classic as the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor before its drastic change with Cataclysm. But there are people who mean the time until Burning Crusade.
Many people don't think Wrath as Classic because it had group finder and heirlooms which kinda killed the open world levelling and socialising towards the end of the expansion.
Also, some people disliked both tbc and wrath because it was close to impossible for lower level players to see max level players since almost all of them went to zones far away from the old world. So those people claim that only vanilla was classic because the world felt much more alive and full with all the zones being relatively close to each other being on one of the two continents. It caused some funny shenanigans like max level players flying to and fighting in gigantic battles at Hillsbrad Foothills, a low level zone. Experiences of players of different levels were greatly enmeshed which made the world more believable.
I dont think that "many" people think that way, i see almost everyone agreeing that classic is what is connected to Warcraft 3. Those guys that you are talking are just on some boomer shit and dont want to see any changes.
@@Farfarawai you seem unnecessarily biased. A lot of people today are actually very much into some changes, which is why SoD is so popular. I've seen people with this mentality both in game and on forums. What you see around you doesn't have to be similar to what other people see. Btw Burning Legion was the real big bad in Warcraft 3 having a finger in every pie and basically making Illidan and Arthas what they are, but they were defeated much later than WotLK.
@@baryony No but im not talking about my perspective. Im just pointing that people consider vanilla, tbc and wrath as the classic experience. The people that only considers vanilla as the classic experience is a few in comparasion. What i meant with "some boomer shit" is the people that complains about stuff that doesnt matter, like the release of Cata Classic for example.
@16:45 ironically the only HVAC certified technician I knew was an Uber sweatlord whale that played BDO and Lost Ark
A bunch of people asked for Cata lmfao??
Many people, yes.
@@AnasAlami-u5kNo, it’s not many. Cata is not popular in the private server scene. It would, if the audience you claim would actually exist.
dunno but bli$$ realized is easier to do
@@Sly_404 There are over 20k players in total on the three main cata private servers all that exist outside the US. There has never been a good option to play Cata because blizzard nukes any US based private server. It has and always has had a larger community than MoP, and people want that because it’ll be bigger when blizzard use their outreach and resources to provide it.
@@Sly_404 to be fair, WotLK is THE most popular expac in the private server scene, but so far it's the least played of the 3 classic expansions we've had through Official Blizzard supported servers. The pserver scene isn't a good gauge.
Imagine Classic+ with High Elves on the alliance and like, goblins on the horde, expand Quel'thalas, add Undermine, grow the existing Vanilla world. I would be so on board.
Novelty is a precious, fleeting experience that can NEVER be fully recreated once it has passed. While we may continue to enjoy things as they evolve, the initial experience of an enjoyable endavour tends to register as an unforgettable part of our memories and lives. Many people seem to chase that initial feeling, tilting at windmills, all whilst laying the blame on something/someone else as to why things are different. The sooner they accept this truth, the sooner they can start enjoying their experiences and have see things in a more positive light.
To not come off sounding like a doomer, the positive thing about novelty is its a reminder that the present moment is a precious commodity, and that embracing new experiences with an open mind will make you have a good time engaging with what --first and foremost- is a hobby, and gaming in general.
1 Thing classic is good at , is leaving players with the room of "what if" there are a lot of unfinished questlines , the zones feel big , relaxing and meditative. Going down the path of expanding azeroth instead of going on different continents and planets its another "what if" that's inline with the classic theme , ppl who are saying "classic copium " or stuff like that , remember that most of the vanilla players didn't really enjoy going to another continents and planets this is why we got cataclysm but instead of gradually updating old azeroth they just destroyed and rebuilded it with a weird vision in mind :) so why not give it a try and start elaborate from what we were left off by the end of classic ? there are a lot of unfinished story lines in classic that just got dumped latter on or were moved in 3-rd row as side quests.
I think asmon is wrong about retail players. I am a no life, terminally online retail player. I have played wow for over 15 years, and I can honestly say, classic is not fun at all to me. My retail guild needed a boomy for SoD (my retail main,) so I decided to give it a chance because I figured the changes to the base classic would be enough to make it more fun for me, and there's a huge xp buff.
Right away I noticed how annoying some of the base gameplay was with spell cast interruption when you're hit by enemies. A normal 2 second cast, can take up to 4 seconds to get off if you're being hit by an enemy. I figured I would get over it. There's also the core loop of killing 1 monster, being out of mana, drinking to regain mana, rinse, repeat. This was "ok" but not very interesting and I found myself just tabbing out of the game alot. Eventually though in SoD, I got glyphs that made this not much of an issue, so I was ok with that.
I forced myself to play until about level 25, my GM had given me 10g early on and I was constantly buying the best gear I could find off the AH the entire time while leveling. At this point, I had been questing, still pulling 1 mob at a time pretty much the entire time, unless the mobs were very low level under me. I would have to do 1 of 2 things when pulling a mob. Either
A. precast wrath, wrath, starsurge, starfire, wrath, surge, starfire (get spell interrupted for about 6 seconds,) surge, mobs dies.
B. precast wrath, wrath, surge, entangling roots, starfire, surge, entangling roots, starfire.
While I will say, at first it was fun figuring out how to do B so that I could take less dmg, have to heal less, which would help with mana, and would usually be faster due to the spell intrupt. It made the game so much more boring doing over and over 1 mob at a time.
Now I'm completely willing to say this is maybe a balance druid issue, or caster issues specifically that I'm experiencing, but it has overall killed any ounce of interest I had in the game. Leveling to me is just so unfun and having to spend so much time in that mode of gameplay isn't interesting at all. On top of it being this tedious cycle of 1 mob, drink for mana/health, 1 mob, drink/eat. It feels to me like the main difficulty of the game is being able to do things you don't want to do for long enough to make it to 60. Which is just not the kind of difficulty I'm interested in.
I don't think I'm alone in my belief and this is something ppl are missing about the retail players who don't enjoy or want to play classic. It's just riddled with small nuisances or annoyances that make the gameplay loop too boring for me to enjoy. I hope that classic players are willing to admit this. It always feels like they are often too afraid of admitting this fault due to fear that it will make their point of "classic wow is the best mmo ever" diminished.
While I couldn't care less for Classic Cataclym, Mist or Draenor, Classic Legion would be just what I needed.
Bring us Legion +!
they should do what RS did. have a poll box in the game where players control what gets added and what doesnt.
That's literally what sod kinda is though. Osrs and rs3 are not the same game and don't even have the same content anymore. Osrs has content that was never released in rs3 and vis versa
@@Keyy7787 what in game poll?
@@Keyy7787 What poll?
Something Guild Wars 1 did right is the start and finish of the game. You always knew what you were building towards the whole game and the endgame is very rewarding in that aspect. A great "I'm finally where I want to be" feeling.
The War Within
The War Without
The War With Doug
Who's Doug? A good guy? A bad guy? Idk, but we're with him.
they should do the remixes for cata-legion expansions, i agree classic is vanilla through wotlk.
Anything after Lich King doesn't deserve "classic" badge.
Lich King lost the “classic” title when they added heroic plus tbh. Fundamentally transformed the game
@@Lazydino59There is warmane
@@Lazydino59 heroic plus dosent existe in warth wtf
@@Keloot yes it does? Defense code alpha beta etc. literally was called h+ for alpha, h++ for beta etc. the dungeons with affixes that dropped raid gear.
"I played Cata all the way through and really enjoyed it but it's not classic wow". I couldn't agree more with this statement. I really liked Cata when it came out because it was a new fresh coat of paint on the world I loved but it DID change wow as a whole and definitely feels like a transitionary period for the game overall. It was the start of going away from the classic style and into the modern day style of wow. Things got simplified, and the boat started drifting towards the more casual style of play. Looking back, it was fun, but now I almost wished that it was a seasonal change as far as the world is concerned, maybe keeping some of the better parts of Cata based off overall player feedback and reverting places like Darkshore and Ashenvale back to what it was in Classic, for the most part.
Cata was soo good I remember selling DS carry’s solo healing on my Druid
I always considered the whole "chosen one" cutscene with Elune to be the turning point of the game from a game. Before that point most of the parts of the games were good, after that point most of the parts were less good to bad.
Imo a raid being easy/difficult shouldn't be the focus. There are so many little/subtle/simple things to get creative with when implementing a boss. One of my favorites ever, Operator Thogar iirc, was relatively straightforward... Don't get hit by a train. A failed pull isn't as demoralizing when you're laughing your ass off bc 5 ppl went SPLAT. Just one mechanic makes players have to learn to constantly be aware of their surroundings, opens up opportunities to make cool plays like shadow stepping last second to dodge certain death, & forces players to heal or DPS efficiently on the move.
Just a thought 🤷.
You are so right. Majority of us just wants to play the game. Not have to look guides to know how to do a dungeon you almost have to do a summary to remember all the little things that can provoke a wipe and a disband. We want simplicity and intuitive game that can chill and have fun in full screen mode.
Then play the easier difficulty?? Why deny the rest if us what we want when we can just both get what we want?
Era servers are STILL active.
@@maxw565Blizzard funnels more dev time and effort into high end raiding content at the expense of zone design and other features.
FF14 would honestly be my ideal game if it wasn't so anime. I hate the designs of characters and their mannerisms and speech patterns in FF. Wish a Western dev would create a game with a similar design philosophy.
@SomeInfamousGuy you realize that ff14 has extremely hard raids too right?
@@maxw565 Is FF14 as endgame raiding focused as wow? You may be right. I'd probably rather have fewer raid tiers per expansion if it meant focus elsewhere.
Thank God I was there when Classic launched... We will never get true vanilla experience again now that the game is full of retail minded players.
No joke. It's a retail fest everywhere.
In Van/TBC/Wrath, you brought "Class over player". In Cata, you brought player > class.
Which is the way it should be.
Chatter at 17:29 “He should just play other games then 🤷🏻♂️” in response to asmongold saying people with jobs and families don’t have time to “git gud” they just want to play a game is the exact same person who will eventually say “why is muh game dead no one plays anymore 🤤” just drooling brain rot. The fact that people actually think games should be gate kept by how much effort you NEED to put in in order to enjoy it just baffles me. Games should be fun. PERIOD.
theres also a certain degree to which you cant change your progression mmo game to cater to people who only have 17 minutes to play every 2nd day because they have 17 kids with a 600+ hour work week because that will also drive away any player that wants an experience that requires you to have your brain turned on at least a little
@@DruudeOwns My point wasn’t to curate the game to cater to people who have absolutely no time to play, my point was that there needs to be a balance. There needs to be hardcore content for no life’s and content easily accessible for average players. Runescape is a good example of this, they have almost no worthwhile early - mid game content. The game is centred around thousands of hours of grinding to make it to the worthwhile end game content. A lot of MMO’s suffer from this. Not to mention the mindset we’ve developed as gamers of wanting to be the very best and having all BiS. Which is fine, but it sucks the fun out of the game sometimes.
An MMO is a lifestyle and I think it should be treated as such.
U don't play an MMO to turn ur brain off and relax, it's quite the opposite.
@@charles9489 That’s a personal bias because that’s how you play the game, not a fact or relatable for every player. And if you asked a lot of people what their favourite thing was back in the day with mmo’s it was the social interactions with other players / exploring the world. Not min maxing for the best gear or being world first for new raids.
@@dscvered well guess what it isn't that anymore, so move on. Not all the things u liked as a youth needs to stay the same or provide for ur every single need.
Let's not act like wow classic didn't turn into a sweatfest. The same players who were clamouring for it, made it the very thing they supposedly hated.
Wow is a complex game it has always been, even back when vanilla was out it was complex for that time.
Some in the aging player base can't deal with that fact, and want wow to return to or recapture that vibe, but it will never do that cause u have moved on and so has wow.
I’m hyped for Shadowlands classic . Can’t wait for choregast again . Classic shadowlands hype classic shadowlands hype .
From cata onwards I hope they will open new classic and tbc servers where you can experience those expansion from the start again. Just like 1-2 servers per expansion. I believe they would have an ok population since not everyone likes cata and the following expansions.
"You think you do, but you don't" was 99% correct.
J. Allen Brack: "They mocked me, laughed and meme'd me for years since that fateful day when i uttered those prophetic words. But now they see."
It really wasn't though. Classic started dying whrn Blizzard started adding major changes. Ultimately becoming ruined when Wrath added gold tokens.
People know what they want. And this is not it
@@NoobsUnited9000 Not true at all, I was doing lots of /who research back then. Classic lost 90 percent of it's players in the first month. Once people realized it takes 4 hours for a single level, everyone that has a job and/or children quit the game.
Token has nothing to do with Classic Era, don't mix apples and oranges.
@@AkiRa22084 *I was doing /who research*
My brother in christ, that is NOT how you do research. That type of observational study is prone to multitudes upon multitudes of errors. There are websites that tracked the data much more succinctly.
@@NoobsUnited9000 Not if you do it controlled, consistently at the same time on multiple servers.
Also I was in the most popular guild in Europe, which was really good to notice population trends.
I did other observations too. Like addon download numbers.
But the funnies part was being completely alone on the server in prime time when TBC launched. There are no "multitudes of errors" there.
16:42 hi i am a hvac certified electrician and this is totally true. Its a game, i am not weak.
sod is great, im loving it so far
I quit classic the moment the WoW token got introduced…..blizzard can hire 8 people to fix the bot problem but they would rather create their own RWT system
Literally me too. Logged on for my raid, saw the token, did the raid out of respect for my team, logged off and DM’d the guild leader and never logged on again. And will never play another blizzard game again, what they did was absolutely DISGUSTING
WoW Classic community way more toxic than Retail. It's like watching a bunch of Dads fight over a $2 steak.😊
Why do you think Retail became significantly less toxic when Classic was released?
Nostalgia goggles can be dangerous. WoW Dad's today can't and won't learn retail.
Cata is not classic. Literal downfall of WoW.
What, in retail everywhere gatekeeping, classic much mor friendly
Legion classic is the most deserving xpac for a redo. It had some on and off moments patch by patch, but by the end of it they had made it perfect. Capping the infinity grind was big. Edit: I mean that hasn't already had a classic release.
I never played any of the classic phases.
But I would if they were all permanent era servers.
Kinda like a trophy case for my characters.
That sounds nice.
The only argument I would make against the stance that wow dungeons/raids can't be hard basically comes down to a simple question. Why are souls games popular then? Yes yes, single player vs not being able to rely on 39 others. But hard 5 man dungeons or 10 man dungeons are fine to have. They fit a perfect middle between the "wow is my job" and "wow is my entertainment" people. Just give us heroic dungeons.