Cdti 190bhp and only x amount are gonna be made. Do the job yourself. Buy a Cdti 150. Blank the egr, mod the airbox and fit better filter, remove precat, remove dpf then get it mapped 220bhp right there. Brakes fit EBC USR and Yellowstuff. simples.
@@dieselfanboy4361 i was running 208hp stock everything, 2010, so got the uprated ECU. Stock turbo absolutely fine for over 2 years, then I switched to a GT1856.
The 2ltr Redtop is quite possibly the best N/A engine built by Vauxhall/Opel/Bedford (whoever else might fit into this category) You never hear of cavalier 1.8i engines in caterhams LOL
The performance of these cars is obviously broadly similar, sadly the 1.9cdti may lose a bit of time due to pitstop to have EGR valve, swirl flaps, dual mass flywheel and chocolate gearbox replaced. Sadly I drive a 1.9cdti Vectra, it is a great economical cruiser, however I baby it around because I don't want to break it! Sitting on 19" rims it is a bit of a sheep in Wolfs clothing....
If you answered 888 to my first question, you get three supplementary questions: (1)Are you Graham Norton? (2)Are you sure your not Graham Norton (3)At your first Traffic Light Grand prix you come against the VXR you should have bought: do you (a)Continue in Graham Norton mode and not bother, (b)Pretend you have broken down (c)Turn off, (d)hide, (e)Admit that you are Graham Norton really.
I guess to anybody that is financially challenged this diesel (tractor) is a good alternative. But if have got the money and want loads of fun go for a petrol sports car. Diesels lack soul. The End
Oh, and be prepared for torque steer! You have to be awake haha! It's all part of the fun though! I wouldn't change it for the world. Focus's drive so much better and handle better but they have weak diesel engines and don't look half as good. I'm selling my Astra for an A3 at the end of the year. I just hope the A3 isn't gonna seem boring! Gonna go for the 2.0L 170BHP diesel quattro. :)
hilarious my friend, they dont do a 1.1 just as an aside. Since when did a 1.1 in a car like an astra achieve the sorts of performance shown in the video above? Seriously all diesel hating aside, it deserves respect for the way it compares in that video, if you raced a civic type R against it in a straight line it would lose by exactly the same amount as the 888.
So would the fuel costs. I've had 1 Astra GSI, 1 Cavalier GSI and a Cav turbo. (when fuel was cheap) The engines are quick but shite on maintance, serviced them every 4k and they still fooked up. The 1.8 is gutless at top end but it keeps on going, not matter what you through at it. The last owner ran it for 7 months every day without oiling it. Never blow up or missed a beat. The C20XE smashed its prop shaft at 20mph low rev, what the f*ck! The LET just through a piston.
I Had a 1.9 Sri boxed to 198bhp ... i now own a VXR sure the 888 can keep up with a STOCK VXR, you take the VXR to Stage one the 888 has no hope in hell of keeping up.
@bebo5566 I almost lived in the 1.8 SRi VVT's when I used to work as a driver for enterprise rent a car. Don't wrong me, they feel really fast out of 1st/2nd gear only because you are topping the revs but its a completely false sence of speed, an optical illusion of acceleration trickery. Most 9.0 second petrols all feel like it. Keep up with a Tiguan TDI, Insignia CDTI or a Mondeo 2.0 TDCI in one and watch how they will leave you disappearing no matter how hard you try. CDTi 150's are faster.
Its a vauxhall Astra with bolt ons. you know, i know it, don't be utterlly ridiculous claiming this is a different car. Its even called an Astra. They buy an Astra from Vauxhall and add to it. To claim that is somehow a stock Astra or not even a Vauxhall is such a stupid comment I don't even know why I am bothering to argue with you... I think I hear your mum calling, run along...
I recall the slating started with you bragging about being a highly intellectual university student and that the inference was everyone else was somehow rather inferior. I already have my degree from a redbrick university, you seem to have come unstuck when you played the education card. The bottom line is what waste tuning a diesel and that argument has never been countered. I've tried to keep this funny and it has been amusing. I hope you do well in your education, no need to be rude...
...continued.. You also need a turbo to make them at a minimum acceptable. This means you will not get any improvement (or at best 1-2% better) over a petrol engine producing the same power, driving in the same manner, in mpg. When you consider petrol is 3% cheaper than diesel and the servicing costs of diesels are much higher, and you pay a premium for a diesel (unbelievable but often true), then the diesel is not only an inferior, slower drive, its also more expensive...continued....
Ok this needs to be clarified too. Diesels have higher volumetric efficiency, but the calorific value of the fuel is lower. The improvement in volumetric efficiency is enough to provide improved mpg. However because the diesel burns far far slower than petrol and the fuel is less energetic you need to burn a lot more of it to get the power which means you need a bigger engine. This means to get power from a diesel you need to burn A LOT of it....continued
250 bhp is stock prodrive Mcrae. It still goes 0-60 in under 5.5 seconds, is unmodified and thus retains its high limited edition value and it retained its manufacturers warranty, it didn't need to be modded to be fast. The "diesels are slow argument" is proven, the facts are they are slower, everyone knows this, we don't need to cover that ground anymore. Although feel free to witter on it is quite amusing for those of us who know ;-)
Why would anyone think that mod'ing a diesel like this is a good idea. Just start with a quick car in the first place if you want to modify it. Wake up mate, diesel is slower, it lost. And the petrol had vicki butler-whatever driving it, she made loads of driving errors and still beat the diesel driven by ex Vauxhall touring car driver (a professional driver) LOL... (diesels are not fast QED).
easy to answer: The proliferation of diesels was popularised by taxation. Supposedly better mpg and lower company car tax has increased the popularity. People who drive diesels, keep the real cars (i.e. the fast petrol ones) for pleasure and the weekend. And you don't get the same performance from stock vehicles, you must compare like with like, the point is the diesel car was mod'ed to the max - AND IT STILL LOST OUT.
So a diesel is a bag of spanners in a tumble drier I'm aftraid. They don't use them in motorsport, they don't win races, they are slow. No amount of like for like tuning on diesel versus petrol will make the diesel faster because the fuel is inferior. Furthermore diesel burns slower than petrol and that in itself is big restriction. Thats why your diesel has to be torquey at low revs, because low revs is all it has!
Yes moderate gains from a slow baseline. The only reason its tunable "via a remap" is because its a turbo. You can tube the VXR for another 50-100 horse for the same money and it would beat the diesel by an even greater margin. Its very very simple, if diesel were so great, formula one cars would use them - and guess what they don't, and for a reason. The only time in motor racing where a diesel powered vehicle has won is in recent le-mans 24hours, only because it gave good gas mileage.
You've missed the point. The calorific value of the fuel is lower, so the engine will be less powerful simple fact. The real point is dispite all the work and effort spent, the diesel is still slower, its an inferior technology period, so why waste your time, the point of tuning is to go fast, and it that respect this fails and therefore tuning the diesel is pointless. If you want to tune to go fast you start with a faster baseline, i.e. the petrol engine.
@DanialA11 Vicki Butler Henderson, raced karts from the age of 12, and has had various jobs in the motoring press, as well as being a licensed racing driver. Assistant launch editor and mechanic in Max Power magazine. Worked for Auto Express, What Car? and Performance Car. Oh yes, and Racing instructor at Silverstone Circuit. Clearly rubbish.
"Opel, the European subsidiary of General Motors, and is part of GM Europe "Vauxhall Motors is a British automobile company. It is a subsidiary of General Motors Corporation (GM), and is part of GM Europe" Vauxhall and Opel are part of the same company group, however I don't see "888, a subsidiary of general motors anywhere" QED. LMFAO....
The VXR is stock. The 888 has all that money spent on basically a shed puller engine and it still lost. So yes, they spent lots of time polishing a turd and it still lost. Moral of the story, if you want go fast don't buy a diesel... So calm down, go drink some fosters, and yes you are descended from a convict...
Ok, lets vote, you've got £18995 to spend on one of these cars. Do you buy (a)the VXR or (b)the 888, Now, given that bogrollofthefarm already has his superb rover diesel, common sense would say VXR, but you never know.... My vote is the VXR, you only have one life why throw away valuable minutes... Whats yours tic?
So if you want to go slower and pay more for it buy the diesel. However if your a rep and wants to chug along on the motorway, don't mind sitting behind slow vehicles on A road because you don't have the power to overtake, not really bothered about fast acceleration and thrilling pleasurable drive, buy something like an Astra or Vectra diesel. ...continued...
Also I just have to comment, the BMW 335D does 23 mpg, and the fuel is more expensive (do a google search for 335D mpg) and it still takes over six seconds for a 3litre turbo and it costs £35,000 pounds, and it only produces 280 horse. 280 horse is 60 hp less than stock 2 litre petrols from Mitsubishi produce for the same money.
I can understand wanting to sell a diesel in the first year or day, but the vxr you'll really want to keep. Also do your research the parkers guide to the vxr has a higher residual value than the diesel...
@RewindMJ Hmmm... true, i have this 1.9 diesel version for economic reasons, but when i thought about upgrading my car with electronic and exhaust upgrades, i came to the conclusion it would be a waste of money. As i see it, want a fast sports car, buy a petrol one in the first place! Only thing ive done was put brembo brakes and Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric tyres. Here in Portugal, people are retarded and there are loads of "oil tankers" juiced up on the road. Its fucking pathetic!
@wordreet 1) where did i state i was a brill driver/better than her/ know more about cars than her?? Please enlighten me 2) your post didnt state she worked for max power 16 years ago, how was i to know that? 3) follows on from 2, because i dont follow her life progress. 4) yes i read all your post, but i was just pointing out how max power concentrates more on the bodywork of cars. read my post properly before contradicting yourself !
The early cross over ecotecs had the red L spark plug covers, it wasn't until later all ecotecs went to black spark plug covers. I used to work in a motorfactors and youd always get the " i need this for a red top" You get them a part for the "red top" and fook me if the part didn't fit. Theres plenty of morans that hear RETOP and just shout it when they get the chance to sound like the know thier stuff when they don't. *"Oh the redtop is the best" "which one?" *"errrr"
Opel have a much better build quality than Vauxhall produced vehicles. I'm sumizing you've never looked into that fact. You can get alot of aftermarket parts for an Opel over a Vauxhall. Yes they have the same drive drains, floor pan, ect... But much much better build quality. The engines are the same, but the Opel built engine last longer and run smoother. Don't ask me why but they do.
Why? It still keeps up with a new shape Astra upto 80 - 85. Plus 4 more year it'll be 20yr old and on it way to a proper classic. I'll admit its not a GSI2000 or an SRi, but it does me fine. Cheap as chips to run, parts are plently and cheap. Why should i pay hand over fist for a new Vectra when they cost a ton to insure, tax, and run. Parts are around, but at stupid prices.
You guys are hilarious, you should form a comedy duo, perhaps nob and cheese? something similar? You came on here with your generalisations about diesels being slow, despite the video above showing impressive hot hatch performance, and now having realised that not everyone is after performance at any cost have decided that perhaps it is easier to slate me than the 888. Strong show for you boys.
The wit is never ending with you..... Doesnt it grate on you that your Impreza only pushes out 250bhp (according to your other post), when all the GOOD ones do 280bhp plus? You have apparently given up on the whole 'diesels are slow, the 888 astra is slow' argument. Shame, it was more fun picking apart the blatant inconsistencies and the missing logic. Oh well the farm jokes are good as well...
Upto you how you spend your money, i dont care, i only want to point out that the 888 diesel is quick, as are (and can be) many other diesels. Dont make insinuations about me breaking the law, thankyou. Just because you are a petrol head does not mean I assume you drive well over the speed limit and have a massive exhaust to compensate for a tiny pecker. I just saw the irony in somebody who cant even spell (it wasnt a typo just a lack of knowledge) telling me i had a lack of intellect.
rover only got mentioned because i know kingchrissyp and he was joking about my car, none of his posts were meant seriously and neither were mine to him, the rover has nothing to do with my views on the 888 which is what we should be discussig. Lack of intellect? You cant even spell rIdiculous (not rediculous). I do follow elecric cars, but until somebody finds a way of cracking hydrogen safely and affordably i will stick with diesel.
Ok boys, back in the real world now. Diesels are slower than petrol equivalents, dirty, smelly, and we all know the Rover diesels is (*was*) a really really bad engine. To imply otherwise "rollofthefarm" is simply rediculous. BTW diesel is whats left over after all the good stuff was distilled off (i.e. the petrol). Tuning a diesel engine is like sparying exquisite perfume on a a dog turd, it may smell nice but underneath its still crap.Next youll be vouching for steam for torque at low revs
Also you say you would expect it to cost more....? Why? It probably wouldnt cost the extra 2k spent on the VXR to get the diesel upto the same spec (alloys etc). The video above shows that the diesel version is VERY close performance wise compared to the VXR end of story, the video shows it. Try and argue that a VXR putting out 195bhp or if the diesel put out 240bhp that the diesel wouldnt have won. It was embarassingly close for the petrol with its extra 2k and extra 55bhp as it was.
You have just completely changed your argument, before you claimed that the diesel cost more now you are saying the VXR is bound to cost more...? You talk about modifications, but the astra could come out of the factory with that spec, just like the VXR does, how much more do you think they spend eeking 240bhp out of their petrol engine than bothering on the diesel? You make it sound like petrol naturally has lots of bhp-not the case, lots of money is spent getting the most out of both fuel type
What are you on about the diesel being modded to the max? It was still a lot cheaper than the VXR, it had LESS money spent on it. You really dont understand that for the real world a diesel car is just as fast as a petrol. More high performance diesels are starting to be produced as the technology is catching up, look at the 335d, its 0-60 time is 6 seconds or just under and returns 35mpg plus in a big car. Diesels are becoming popular because they are improving.
I think it is you who is missing the point, if diesels are 'old technology' then why has the proportion of them on the road compared to petrol cars risen dramatically over the past 10 years or so and is still rising. The point of the program was to show that you can have practicality and performance in a diesel. Even on the straight line speed there is a fraction of a difference in the 2 cars in the above video and that is with 55bhp difference in the petrols favour.....think about it.
The diesel should feel a hell of a lot quicker with 450nm of torque compared to the 350nm of the vxr, bearing in mind that a 2009 ferrari 458 italia has 450nm of torque, but with 562bhp and a 0-60 of 3.4 seconds. just buy a normal 150bhp astra diesel and chip it up, its as quick as a 888 but at a fraction of the cost
I've been reading the comments from people who haven't ever driven one of these 888's i'm one of the lucky 100 people how owns one of these if you want to know the truth about this vid and how it really went ask the guys at Thurlby's, put it this way it didn't go well for the VXR. Watch the vid carefully when they do the lap, one minute it's raining next it's bone dry.
You at least have the choice of good fuel economy, even driving a vxr as economically as possible you wouldnt get much over 30mpg, i would put money on 30mpg being easily achievable in sport mode on the 888. At 5min 5secs she points out the price difference, and the diesel would be a lot easier to live with.
What kind of a point is that anyway? Does it really make a difference when the mpg in a diesel is so much better? Also i was referring to your posts about the money being spent on the diesel to get it upto 888 spec and pointing out its irrelevant as it is still cheaper than a VXR. I didnt read it wrong, i was referring to an earlier post.
You have quoted the urban mpg, combined is 30mpg, i cant think of a similar performance petrol of the same size which would do that. You compare litres and bhp from them as though it matters. Vtec engines can produce 100bhp per litre or more, it doesnt mean that all performance cars use the V-tech technology.
That view is dated and does not apply to the newer diesel engines, which are not rattly old oil burners. Your username sums you up nicely, as anybody with even a slight knowledge of cars knows diesels are far to cheaper to modify for moderate gains, i.e. 50-100 bhp, as many can be done with a remap for £500.
When you're pushing 180bhp at the wheels in my car that's now grabbing 290ft lb a torque then yes, I can easily stay with VXR's, FOCUS ST's and 3 MPS' There's no need for dreamin sunshine! The lag in the VXR is ridiculous! 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear I'm gonna see them in the mirrors!
Your statement is fawed. Triple 8 released the Astra 888 as thier own car, and they were never pre-registered as a Vauxhall. So considering 888 is the manufacturer of the Astra 888 then its also stock. As it was never been modified before it was registered.
Hmm, I used to have an Astra VXR. Rolling start, if she stuck it in 3rd, rolling at 30mph she would have dusted him. It was crap off the line as the power band is too short and it revved to quick, so you had to skip gears. However 30-70mph it went like a b******
The point of diesel is economy but you got to admit diesel has come on a long way in past years and they do shift and give petrol a run for there money.I think in a few years time diesel will wipe the floor with petrol and dont forget 45% of cars sold in uk are diesel.
'bogrollofthefarm' priceless, just like your vxr would be after a year. Common sense? Anyone with any common sense would buy the diesel no matter what, at least then you have the choice of selling it and getting back most of your 19k, even if its to buy a vxr for 12/13k with 10,000 miles on it
I havent said for all out performance buy a diesel, but what kingchrissyp says sums up nicely, the astra does give performance AND economy, so why argue you cant have a fast diesel? The 0-60 of roughly 6.5 seconds is the same as a Civic type R which has the same bhp and weight.
For a university student on poor wages wanting the best combination on reliability, performance (nothing extrodinary, but as quick as other things in my price range such as saxo vtr's) and mpg, 45+ even about town then yes my rover does me fine.
The phrase 'more money than sense' comes to mind, but i guess that in all honesty that is what it comes down to. If you really prioritise that split second in performance more than the cost saved with the diesel then fair enough go for the petrol.
The cost of runnning a diesel is less, even if you run on normal petrol and not the premium stuff many performance cars use (costs the same as diesel). You said the reason they were becoming popular was because they were cheaper to run
I agree, the 888 diesel porvides performance as well as economy. Why do people on here refuse to see that the astra diesel is a quick car? If it only loses to the VXR by a fraction of a second it is not slow, even the presenter said it was 'a moral victory'
Rover diesels are ultra reliable and sensibly priced- unlike those wannabe VW's, the Seat Leon Cupra R's. If they had had a rover diesel on the track with those 2 astras i think you would find the Rover had done 2 laps before they had even done 1 :P
Thats bullshit. I want to see the source that say vauxhall have more layers of paint than Opel. The only difference is the engine. Countries like: Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Germany and france are not very hot year around.
yes true BUT IF THE DIESEL WAS IN THIRD THE RESULT WOULD BE THE SAME, 888 HAS TO MUCH TORQUE. STRAIGHT DRAG RACE UP TO TOP SPEED VXR WOULD WIN THAT. BUT 888 NOT JUST ABOUT TOPSPEED. POWER COMBINED WITH GREAT MPG
i think the video speaks for its self. you need to watch the le mans 24 hours race. the diesels, destroy the petrol on all levels. not saying that i hate petrol cars far from it. cant beat the sound of a petrol turbo .
no , if the cars were in 3rd it would be the same result. the 888 430nm VXR 320nm. does not sound alot, but in the real world its huge. IN ALL OUT DRAG RACE OVER A MILE . THE VXR WOULD WIN.
i think your wright mate. each time vicky is on screen the 888 is wright up to her door. then it cuts back to open shot of the two cars. vxr a car lenth ahead. does look fixed the way they have done this
Parkers probably doesnt take into account that the 888 is limited edition, put your impreza in parkers price guide and see if you think you would ask anything similar if you wanted to sell it.
they handle like that because the frame is worthiness if the frame were at least 80% better they wouldn't understear like they bo but at least the VXR8 is the best out of the VXR'S
in the uk. its called vauxhall astra vxr. only in the rest of europe it an opel. OPEL DONT GET THE SAME NAME FOR THIS CAR. ITS FOR THE UK ONLY. BUT THEY ARE STILL THE SAME CAR.
I dont care about the petrol version, why would i want to add to the expenses of running one if i couldnt afford to run a vxr (or couldnt justify running one) anyway.
@bebo5566 If you knew anything youd know that a 1.9 CDTi 150 is a lot faster than the 1.8 petrol :) I know as i have owned both and still have my diesel :)
like it or not the gap between diesel car and petrol cars is minimal. at the end of the day you drive what you like as long as your happy, have a nice day dude,
Nothing, completely standard! You can get similar power from a DTUK box too. It tends to smoke a bit under heavy load and the power does drop slightly when its being hammered (because it needs a bigger intercooler). But its loads of fun! Both issues have never bothered me.
You only need the serious torque if your car is heavy. more weight, the more torque you need. f1 cars weigh a few hundred kgs.. hence not much torque considering their performance.
The VXR is stock, the diesel is played with to the max, and it still lost.
Leave your diesel for the buses and trains...
Cdti 190bhp and only x amount are gonna be made. Do the job yourself. Buy a Cdti 150. Blank the egr, mod the airbox and fit better filter, remove precat, remove dpf then get it mapped 220bhp right there. Brakes fit EBC USR and Yellowstuff. simples.
HiddenWarrior topman
Bullshit the maximum with a stock parts is 190 bhp, if you want more u need bigger turbo and etc... thr stock garret can't handle more than 190
@@dieselfanboy4361 i was running 208hp stock everything, 2010, so got the uprated ECU. Stock turbo absolutely fine for over 2 years, then I switched to a GT1856.
I have a remapped 1.9 150 SRi. It puts out 207bhp and 440nm of torque.
Safe to say, its fucking quick!
Cal M you still have it?
Cal M I heard the gear boxes can’t handle the power
Stage 1 map
i love diesels and vauxhalls. i wish i could get this tripple eight
I've a Stage 2 Astra VXR running 285bhp and 440Nm torque
The 2ltr Redtop is quite possibly the best N/A engine built by Vauxhall/Opel/Bedford (whoever else might fit into this category)
You never hear of cavalier 1.8i engines in caterhams LOL
The performance of these cars is obviously broadly similar, sadly the 1.9cdti may lose a bit of time due to pitstop to have EGR valve, swirl flaps, dual mass flywheel and chocolate gearbox replaced. Sadly I drive a 1.9cdti Vectra, it is a great economical cruiser, however I baby it around because I don't want to break it! Sitting on 19" rims it is a bit of a sheep in Wolfs clothing....
2012, UK , fuel prices....
The real winner is the 888/ CDTI owners wallet.
2021, still the same way 🤣🤣
Haha too true :-)
Diesel power kicks ass !!! I hava a astra 1.9 with 150hp and i love it.............
If you answered 888 to my first question, you get three supplementary questions:
(1)Are you Graham Norton?
(2)Are you sure your not Graham Norton
(3)At your first Traffic Light Grand prix you come against the VXR you should have bought:
do you (a)Continue in Graham Norton mode and not bother, (b)Pretend you have broken down (c)Turn off, (d)hide, (e)Admit that you are Graham Norton really.
I would also hardly call £1000 of bits for the CDTI "All that money" - still much cheaper than a VXR.
I guess to anybody that is financially challenged this diesel (tractor) is a good alternative. But if have got the money and want loads of fun go for a petrol sports car. Diesels lack soul. The End
Gearboxes are torque multipliers. Who races in 4th at 50?🙄 put the vxr in 3rd, bye 888.
Yeah because obviously just buying a car thats fast already vs actually putting some WORK into it is the more manly way of doing it.
Oh, and be prepared for torque steer! You have to be awake haha!
It's all part of the fun though! I wouldn't change it for the world.
Focus's drive so much better and handle better but they have weak diesel engines and don't look half as good.
I'm selling my Astra for an A3 at the end of the year. I just hope the A3 isn't gonna seem boring! Gonna go for the 2.0L 170BHP diesel quattro. :)
hilarious my friend, they dont do a 1.1 just as an aside. Since when did a 1.1 in a car like an astra achieve the sorts of performance shown in the video above? Seriously all diesel hating aside, it deserves respect for the way it compares in that video, if you raced a civic type R against it in a straight line it would lose by exactly the same amount as the 888.
The 888 Astra cost £120 LESS than a standard 1.9 SRi.
Shame thats not the case now 👎🤢
So would the fuel costs.
I've had 1 Astra GSI, 1 Cavalier GSI and a Cav turbo. (when fuel was cheap)
The engines are quick but shite on maintance, serviced them every 4k and they still fooked up.
The 1.8 is gutless at top end but it keeps on going, not matter what you through at it.
The last owner ran it for 7 months every day without oiling it.
Never blow up or missed a beat.
The C20XE smashed its prop shaft at 20mph low rev, what the f*ck!
The LET just through a piston.
I Had a 1.9 Sri boxed to 198bhp ... i now own a VXR sure the 888 can keep up with a STOCK VXR, you take the VXR to Stage one the 888 has no hope in hell of keeping up.
@bebo5566 I almost lived in the 1.8 SRi VVT's when I used to work as a driver for enterprise rent a car. Don't wrong me, they feel really fast out of 1st/2nd gear only because you are topping the revs but its a completely false sence of speed, an optical illusion of acceleration trickery. Most 9.0 second petrols all feel like it. Keep up with a Tiguan TDI, Insignia CDTI or a Mondeo 2.0 TDCI in one and watch how they will leave you disappearing no matter how hard you try. CDTi 150's are faster.
Its a vauxhall Astra with bolt ons. you know, i know it, don't be utterlly ridiculous claiming this is a different car. Its even called an Astra.
They buy an Astra from Vauxhall and add to it. To claim that is somehow a stock Astra or not even a Vauxhall is such a stupid comment I don't even know why I am bothering to argue with you...
I think I hear your mum calling, run along...
I recall the slating started with you bragging about being a highly intellectual university student and that the inference was everyone else was somehow rather inferior. I already have my degree from a redbrick university, you seem to have come unstuck when you played the education card. The bottom line is what waste tuning a diesel and that argument has never been countered. I've tried to keep this funny and it has been amusing. I hope you do well in your education, no need to be rude...
...continued.. You also need a turbo to make them at a minimum acceptable. This means you will not get any improvement (or at best 1-2% better) over a petrol engine producing the same power, driving in the same manner, in mpg. When you consider petrol is 3% cheaper than diesel and the servicing costs of diesels are much higher, and you pay a premium for a diesel (unbelievable but often true), then the diesel is not only an inferior, slower drive, its also more expensive...continued....
Ok this needs to be clarified too. Diesels have higher volumetric efficiency, but the calorific value of the fuel is lower. The improvement in volumetric efficiency is enough to provide improved mpg. However because the diesel burns far far slower than petrol and the fuel is less energetic you need to burn a lot more of it to get the power which means you need a bigger engine. This means to get power from a diesel you need to burn A LOT of it....continued
250 bhp is stock prodrive Mcrae. It still goes 0-60 in under 5.5 seconds, is unmodified and thus retains its high limited edition value and it retained its manufacturers warranty, it didn't need to be modded to be fast. The "diesels are slow argument" is proven, the facts are they are slower, everyone knows this, we don't need to cover that ground anymore. Although feel free to witter on it is quite amusing for those of us who know ;-)
Why would anyone think that mod'ing a diesel like this is a good idea. Just start with a quick car in the first place if you want to modify it. Wake up mate, diesel is slower, it lost. And the petrol had vicki butler-whatever driving it, she made loads of driving errors and still beat the diesel driven by ex Vauxhall touring car driver (a professional driver) LOL... (diesels are not fast QED).
easy to answer: The proliferation of diesels was popularised by taxation. Supposedly better mpg and lower company car tax has increased the popularity. People who drive diesels, keep the real cars (i.e. the fast petrol ones) for pleasure and the weekend. And you don't get the same performance from stock vehicles, you must compare like with like, the point is the diesel car was mod'ed to the max - AND IT STILL LOST OUT.
So a diesel is a bag of spanners in a tumble drier I'm aftraid. They don't use them in motorsport, they don't win races, they are slow. No amount of like for like tuning on diesel versus petrol will make the diesel faster because the fuel is inferior. Furthermore diesel burns slower than petrol and that in itself is big restriction. Thats why your diesel has to be torquey at low revs, because low revs is all it has!
Yes moderate gains from a slow baseline. The only reason its tunable "via a remap" is because its a turbo. You can tube the VXR for another 50-100 horse for the same money and it would beat the diesel by an even greater margin. Its very very simple, if diesel were so great, formula one cars would use them - and guess what they don't, and for a reason. The only time in motor racing where a diesel powered vehicle has won is in recent le-mans 24hours, only because it gave good gas mileage.
You've missed the point. The calorific value of the fuel is lower, so the engine will be less powerful simple fact. The real point is dispite all the work and effort spent, the diesel is still slower, its an inferior technology period, so why waste your time, the point of tuning is to go fast, and it that respect this fails and therefore tuning the diesel is pointless. If you want to tune to go fast you start with a faster baseline, i.e. the petrol engine.
@DanialA11
Vicki Butler Henderson, raced karts from the age of 12, and has had various jobs in the motoring press, as well as being a licensed racing driver.
Assistant launch editor and mechanic in Max Power magazine.
Worked for Auto Express, What Car? and Performance Car.
Oh yes, and
Racing instructor at Silverstone Circuit.
Clearly rubbish.
"Opel, the European subsidiary of General Motors, and is part of GM Europe
"Vauxhall Motors is a British automobile company. It is a subsidiary of General Motors Corporation (GM), and is part of GM Europe"
Vauxhall and Opel are part of the same company group, however I don't see "888, a subsidiary of general motors anywhere"
QED. LMFAO....
The VXR is stock. The 888 has all that money spent on basically a shed puller engine and it still lost.
So yes, they spent lots of time polishing a turd and it still lost.
Moral of the story, if you want go fast don't buy a diesel...
So calm down, go drink some fosters, and yes you are descended from a convict...
Ok, lets vote, you've got £18995 to spend on one of these cars.
Do you buy (a)the VXR or (b)the 888,
Now, given that bogrollofthefarm already has his superb rover diesel, common sense would say VXR, but you never know....
My vote is the VXR, you only have one life why throw away valuable minutes...
Whats yours tic?
So if you want to go slower and pay more for it buy the diesel.
However if your a rep and wants to chug along on the motorway, don't mind sitting behind slow vehicles on A road because you don't have the power to overtake, not really bothered about fast acceleration and thrilling pleasurable drive, buy something like an Astra or Vectra diesel.
...continued...
Also I just have to comment, the BMW 335D does 23 mpg, and the fuel is more expensive (do a google search for 335D mpg) and it still takes over six seconds for a 3litre turbo and it costs £35,000 pounds, and it only produces 280 horse. 280 horse is 60 hp less than stock 2 litre petrols from Mitsubishi produce for the same money.
I can understand wanting to sell a diesel in the first year or day, but the vxr you'll really want to keep. Also do your research the parkers guide to the vxr has a higher residual value than the diesel...
@RewindMJ
Hmmm... true, i have this 1.9 diesel version for economic reasons, but when i thought about upgrading my car with electronic and exhaust upgrades, i came to the conclusion it would be a waste of money.
As i see it, want a fast sports car, buy a petrol one in the first place!
Only thing ive done was put brembo brakes and Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric tyres.
Here in Portugal, people are retarded and there are loads of "oil tankers" juiced up on the road. Its fucking pathetic!
@wordreet 1) where did i state i was a brill driver/better than her/ know more about cars than her?? Please enlighten me 2) your post didnt state she worked for max power 16 years ago, how was i to know that? 3) follows on from 2, because i dont follow her life progress. 4) yes i read all your post, but i was just pointing out how max power concentrates more on the bodywork of cars. read my post properly before contradicting yourself !
The early cross over ecotecs had the red L spark plug covers, it wasn't until later all ecotecs went to black spark plug covers.
I used to work in a motorfactors and youd always get the " i need this for a red top"
You get them a part for the "red top" and fook me if the part didn't fit.
Theres plenty of morans that hear RETOP and just shout it when they get the chance to sound like the know thier stuff when they don't.
*"Oh the redtop is the best"
"which one?"
*"errrr"
Opel have a much better build quality than Vauxhall produced vehicles.
I'm sumizing you've never looked into that fact.
You can get alot of aftermarket parts for an Opel over a Vauxhall.
Yes they have the same drive drains, floor pan, ect...
But much much better build quality.
The engines are the same, but the Opel built engine last longer and run smoother.
Don't ask me why but they do.
Why?
It still keeps up with a new shape Astra upto 80 - 85.
Plus 4 more year it'll be 20yr old and on it way to a proper classic.
I'll admit its not a GSI2000 or an SRi, but it does me fine.
Cheap as chips to run, parts are plently and cheap.
Why should i pay hand over fist for a new Vectra when they cost a ton to insure, tax, and run.
Parts are around, but at stupid prices.
You guys are hilarious, you should form a comedy duo, perhaps nob and cheese? something similar? You came on here with your generalisations about diesels being slow, despite the video above showing impressive hot hatch performance, and now having realised that not everyone is after performance at any cost have decided that perhaps it is easier to slate me than the 888. Strong show for you boys.
The wit is never ending with you..... Doesnt it grate on you that your Impreza only pushes out 250bhp (according to your other post), when all the GOOD ones do 280bhp plus?
You have apparently given up on the whole 'diesels are slow, the 888 astra is slow' argument. Shame, it was more fun picking apart the blatant inconsistencies and the missing logic. Oh well the farm jokes are good as well...
Upto you how you spend your money, i dont care, i only want to point out that the 888 diesel is quick, as are (and can be) many other diesels. Dont make insinuations about me breaking the law, thankyou. Just because you are a petrol head does not mean I assume you drive well over the speed limit and have a massive exhaust to compensate for a tiny pecker. I just saw the irony in somebody who cant even spell (it wasnt a typo just a lack of knowledge) telling me i had a lack of intellect.
rover only got mentioned because i know kingchrissyp and he was joking about my car, none of his posts were meant seriously and neither were mine to him, the rover has nothing to do with my views on the 888 which is what we should be discussig. Lack of intellect? You cant even spell rIdiculous (not rediculous). I do follow elecric cars, but until somebody finds a way of cracking hydrogen safely and affordably i will stick with diesel.
Ok boys, back in the real world now. Diesels are slower than petrol equivalents, dirty, smelly, and we all know the Rover diesels is (*was*) a really really bad engine. To imply otherwise "rollofthefarm" is simply rediculous. BTW diesel is whats left over after all the good stuff was distilled off (i.e. the petrol). Tuning a diesel engine is like sparying exquisite perfume on a a dog turd, it may smell nice but underneath its still crap.Next youll be vouching for steam for torque at low revs
Also you say you would expect it to cost more....? Why? It probably wouldnt cost the extra 2k spent on the VXR to get the diesel upto the same spec (alloys etc). The video above shows that the diesel version is VERY close performance wise compared to the VXR end of story, the video shows it. Try and argue that a VXR putting out 195bhp or if the diesel put out 240bhp that the diesel wouldnt have won. It was embarassingly close for the petrol with its extra 2k and extra 55bhp as it was.
You have just completely changed your argument, before you claimed that the diesel cost more now you are saying the VXR is bound to cost more...? You talk about modifications, but the astra could come out of the factory with that spec, just like the VXR does, how much more do you think they spend eeking 240bhp out of their petrol engine than bothering on the diesel? You make it sound like petrol naturally has lots of bhp-not the case, lots of money is spent getting the most out of both fuel type
What are you on about the diesel being modded to the max? It was still a lot cheaper than the VXR, it had LESS money spent on it. You really dont understand that for the real world a diesel car is just as fast as a petrol.
More high performance diesels are starting to be produced as the technology is catching up, look at the 335d, its 0-60 time is 6 seconds or just under and returns 35mpg plus in a big car. Diesels are becoming popular because they are improving.
I think it is you who is missing the point, if diesels are 'old technology' then why has the proportion of them on the road compared to petrol cars risen dramatically over the past 10 years or so and is still rising. The point of the program was to show that you can have practicality and performance in a diesel. Even on the straight line speed there is a fraction of a difference in the 2 cars in the above video and that is with 55bhp difference in the petrols favour.....think about it.
The diesel should feel a hell of a lot quicker with 450nm of torque compared to the 350nm of the vxr, bearing in mind that a 2009 ferrari 458 italia has 450nm of torque, but with 562bhp and a 0-60 of 3.4 seconds.
just buy a normal 150bhp astra diesel and chip it up, its as quick as a 888 but at a fraction of the cost
I've been reading the comments from people who haven't ever driven one of these 888's i'm one of the lucky 100 people how owns one of these if you want to know the truth about this vid and how it really went ask the guys at Thurlby's, put it this way it didn't go well for the VXR.
Watch the vid carefully when they do the lap, one minute it's raining next it's bone dry.
You at least have the choice of good fuel economy, even driving a vxr as economically as possible you wouldnt get much over 30mpg, i would put money on 30mpg being easily achievable in sport mode on the 888. At 5min 5secs she points out the price difference, and the diesel would be a lot easier to live with.
What kind of a point is that anyway? Does it really make a difference when the mpg in a diesel is so much better? Also i was referring to your posts about the money being spent on the diesel to get it upto 888 spec and pointing out its irrelevant as it is still cheaper than a VXR. I didnt read it wrong, i was referring to an earlier post.
You have quoted the urban mpg, combined is 30mpg, i cant think of a similar performance petrol of the same size which would do that. You compare litres and bhp from them as though it matters. Vtec engines can produce 100bhp per litre or more, it doesnt mean that all performance cars use the V-tech technology.
That view is dated and does not apply to the newer diesel engines, which are not rattly old oil burners. Your username sums you up nicely, as anybody with even a slight knowledge of cars knows diesels are far to cheaper to modify for moderate gains, i.e. 50-100 bhp, as many can be done with a remap for £500.
I have one astra h 1.8 chip tunning. Now it has 155ps it is faster than bmw 118i, tsi 140, bravo tjet 150ps honda civic 1,8 and oter cars :p
When you're pushing 180bhp at the wheels in my car that's now grabbing 290ft lb a torque then yes, I can easily stay with VXR's, FOCUS ST's and 3 MPS'
There's no need for dreamin sunshine! The lag in the VXR is ridiculous! 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear I'm gonna see them in the mirrors!
Your statement is fawed.
Triple 8 released the Astra 888 as thier own car, and they were never pre-registered as a Vauxhall.
So considering 888 is the manufacturer of the Astra 888 then its also stock.
As it was never been modified before it was registered.
Hmm, I used to have an Astra VXR. Rolling start, if she stuck it in 3rd, rolling at 30mph she would have dusted him. It was crap off the line as the power band is too short and it revved to quick, so you had to skip gears. However 30-70mph it went like a b******
The point of diesel is economy but you got to admit diesel has come on a long way in past years and they do shift and give petrol a run for there money.I think in a few years time diesel will wipe the floor with petrol and dont forget 45% of cars sold in uk are diesel.
'bogrollofthefarm' priceless, just like your vxr would be after a year. Common sense? Anyone with any common sense would buy the diesel no matter what, at least then you have the choice of selling it and getting back most of your 19k, even if its to buy a vxr for 12/13k with 10,000 miles on it
I havent said for all out performance buy a diesel, but what kingchrissyp says sums up nicely, the astra does give performance AND economy, so why argue you cant have a fast diesel? The 0-60 of roughly 6.5 seconds is the same as a Civic type R which has the same bhp and weight.
For a university student on poor wages wanting the best combination on reliability, performance (nothing extrodinary, but as quick as other things in my price range such as saxo vtr's) and mpg, 45+ even about town then yes my rover does me fine.
The phrase 'more money than sense' comes to mind, but i guess that in all honesty that is what it comes down to. If you really prioritise that split second in performance more than the cost saved with the diesel then fair enough go for the petrol.
The cost of runnning a diesel is less, even if you run on normal petrol and not the premium stuff many performance cars use (costs the same as diesel). You said the reason they were becoming popular was because they were cheaper to run
I agree, the 888 diesel porvides performance as well as economy. Why do people on here refuse to see that the astra diesel is a quick car? If it only loses to the VXR by a fraction of a second it is not slow, even the presenter said it was 'a moral victory'
Rover diesels are ultra reliable and sensibly priced- unlike those wannabe VW's, the Seat Leon Cupra R's. If they had had a rover diesel on the track with those 2 astras i think you would find the Rover had done 2 laps before they had even done 1 :P
Thats bullshit. I want to see the source that say vauxhall have more layers of paint than Opel. The only difference is the engine. Countries like: Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Germany and france are not very hot year around.
yes true BUT IF THE DIESEL WAS IN THIRD THE RESULT WOULD BE THE SAME, 888 HAS TO MUCH TORQUE.
STRAIGHT DRAG RACE UP TO TOP SPEED VXR WOULD WIN THAT.
BUT 888 NOT JUST ABOUT TOPSPEED. POWER COMBINED WITH GREAT MPG
i think the video speaks for its self. you need to watch the le mans 24 hours race. the diesels, destroy the petrol on all levels. not saying that i hate petrol cars far from it. cant beat the sound of a petrol turbo .
no , if the cars were in 3rd it would be the same result. the 888 430nm VXR 320nm. does not sound alot, but in the real world its huge. IN ALL OUT DRAG RACE OVER A MILE . THE VXR WOULD WIN.
i think your wright mate. each time vicky is on screen the 888 is wright up to her door. then it cuts back to open shot of the two cars. vxr a car lenth ahead. does look fixed the way they have done this
Parkers probably doesnt take into account that the 888 is limited edition, put your impreza in parkers price guide and see if you think you would ask anything similar if you wanted to sell it.
they handle like that because the frame is worthiness if the frame were at least 80% better they wouldn't understear like they bo but at least the VXR8 is the best out of the VXR'S
in the uk. its called vauxhall astra vxr. only in the rest of europe it an opel. OPEL DONT GET THE SAME NAME FOR THIS CAR. ITS FOR THE UK ONLY. BUT THEY ARE STILL THE SAME CAR.
I dont care about the petrol version, why would i want to add to the expenses of running one if i couldnt afford to run a vxr (or couldnt justify running one) anyway.
from man with Vectra in his username....
I have a 250 break Impreza turbo which will blow that out of the water
@bebo5566 If you knew anything youd know that a 1.9 CDTi 150 is a lot faster than the 1.8 petrol :)
I know as i have owned both and still have my diesel :)
like it or not the gap between diesel car and petrol cars is minimal. at the end of the day you drive what you like as long as your happy, have a nice day dude,
Like for like would be to compare them when the diesel has the same bhp, not 45 less. Or even when it cost the same and not 2 grand or so cheaper.
Seriously..... what... buy common sense? You can buy an education mate, not a brain (which you need to get into uni in the first place).
says you. I dont see how you have managed to proove that the 888 is a slow car or is not cheaper to run than an equivalent petrol?...?
Can anyone tell me why he turns turbo on and off during the race, and just not leave it on? thanks
Nothing, completely standard! You can get similar power from a DTUK box too. It tends to smoke a bit under heavy load and the power does drop slightly when its being hammered (because it needs a bigger intercooler). But its loads of fun! Both issues have never bothered me.
I hear Mcdonalds are handing out degrees now, maybe he studies there. I guess the old chip fat would come in handy
Easy decision: I'll have the faster petrol, didn't take half a second to decide that...
Mild victory....whats she on about, the diesel was 50bhp down and 25kg heavier than the VXR... I say diesel WIN!!!
You only need the serious torque if your car is heavy. more weight, the more torque you need.
f1 cars weigh a few hundred kgs.. hence not much torque considering their performance.
What are you studying is it politics or economics, its certainly not engineering...
Cheers mate but i dont know you well enough, plus marriage is more expensive than running a vxr.
how many mpg does a 2 litre turbo mitsubishi do, even if its a lower spec producing 280bhp?
diesels are not drivers cars they are far to slow to respond.petrols are far nicer to drive.
diesel fuel costs more was my point, read it again, properly this time.
No it doesn't, Type R is an ayshon car. That means it's in a lower league to an Opel.
the second test was not about which gear the car was in its to demonstrate. torque,
just call me 'crazy talking diesel boy who drives a rover from the farm'.
Diesel all the way. looks nice, and jeeeez, you could shcok some people !
All the 888 turd polishing and it still lost.... LMFAO....
I would also prefer you to drive a light car with no safety equipment.