One suggestion: I have experience several of these structures take off in strong winds, even with stakes holding it down. My solution was to run 3 ropes (for a structure of your size) over the top and then tied to other more permanent structures or anchored strongly to the ground with BIG pegs. One time the wind was so strong - 100km/h gusts - I drove my tractor in and tied the structure to the tractor. Just beware of HIGH winds. Also, I always cleared the snow off every day by bashing inside with the bristles of a big broom, especially when then structure only had a greenhouse plastic skin. This should all workout fine although as I said before, I would have 2 layers of plastic to get higher air temps inside.
THank you for sharing your direct experience, super helpful. I think I've worked out a system for getting a great positive bite to the earth, I'll share notes when it's put together and you can let me know if I did alright. The benefit here is that the wind sheltering in this spot is amazing between the house, the coop and the big tree overhead...
I’m so glad for you guys to have this extra space! No more crouching down to do your lifting and turning in there. 🙌 I’m so excited to see it come together! Your hens are getting quite the upgrade too. 😍
Hey Sean, I've been a longtime view of your channel, drawn in by your thoughtful explanations of your projects. Last year I began converting a cornfield into a forest garden / silvoculture by making swales throughout the field. And last night I created this channel and uploaded my first videos to youtube. Some of your viewers may find them helpful, specifically if they are interested in creating swales. Shameless self-promotion... Anyway, thanks for the continued inspiration, it has been very encouraging in the moments when I haven't had access to land and needed to see and feel it.
Definitely a concrete blanket for curing concrete. Flat work like side walks etc. When you pour during a day that's cold and nightfall is coming with sub-freezing Temps you have to cover it with an insulation blanket to keep it from popping and cracking. It will look cracked and shotgun blasted if it does freeze before it cures. Love following your show, have for a few years now. Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri. We grow rocks and hard clay. Have a pathetic replication of what you do going on, love watching for improvement ideas. Thanks to both of you!
This is why I recommend your channel to everyone I know. You’re always upgrading, adapting, and evolving! That’s a sign of true intelligence and humility at the same time. Friends of mine were asking me about some of the videos I’ve posted lately and I just told them if they want the real chicken/composting “guru” or master they need to check you out. Keep it coming!
This is one of the best channels on your. I can't wait to move back east and incorporate some of your compost and growing practices. Thank you so much for sharing your journey.
My husband is an engineer and the first thing he thought of is making sure the side framing is reinforced to hold the weight of any large snowfalls(like the one we just had). Most people think of the roof and forget that the load bearing framework can't handle the roof upgrade. Maybe some cross bars/brackets between/along the framework? I am sure your guys will think of something. You are quite resourceful after all.
@@flatsville1 That is not a bad idea. Would help prevent buckling if the pieces are tall enough. Definitely one partial solution to consider for sure. Just depends on what is around or what one has access to as well.
The black tarp with insulation is a concrete blanket. You cover new concrete on cold days so it doesn’t freeze and crack. But works well covering garden beds to kill weeds or cover for winter.
The video series of you converting your neighbor's yard into a productive food forest was amazing and inspirational. Is there anyway you could imagine yourself doing that on a larger scale? Is it just as simple as swales and hugelmounds that go across an entire suburb instead of simply one backyard? Love your videos
Glad you like the videos :) I think the larger you scale up the more you really really want to think through bigger picture elements, so it would be a bit like what we did but with much better planning in advance and more accurate mapping, etc.
Great score on the carport. It is also called a mobile garage (sold at harbor freight). I have a few of them and now use them as canopies (tarps over the tops) over my chicken pens. There are a few videos on YT of how to make them sturdier. One I instituted was to put a 2 x 3’s crossways just below the bends at the top of the sides. Side to side. (Ugh I hope that makes sense). It really helped to make it sturdier. I also have ratchet straps to cinder blocks at each leg to help hold it down. They came with the spiral anchors that go into the ground and connect to the bottom corner poles but I like the straps over the cross poles to cinder blocks on the ground better. They have been very stable in 50 mph gusts. Just FYI 😁
I knocked on a neighbours door and ended up working on their organic farm for the season 🤔🤷♂️👍 thanks for doing that live Q&A at the start of the pandemic 🤙 oh and yeah you always need hinges for everything 🤣
Hmm, I wonder if attaching a cattle panel on top of the carport would suffice to keep the weight from the snow at bay? Love the content. Thanks for keeping on even during the cold 🥶
Yes, I’ve done that. You only need the top sections cover by the panel, not the sides. It does make the structure more difficult to move if you need to (unless you take it all apart - which I never wanted to do!).
My friend & I had to do this with a cheap $300 greenhouse he bought which are very similar. Those roof ribs are too far apart for even heavy rain & would certainly collapse under snow.
I was thinking the same thing, use the cattle panels to span and support the gaps between each of the vertical poles of the new car port with zip ties or wire fasteners to hold everything together. Im excited to see this upgrade to the chicken composting system come together.... Thanks for the video update
looking forward to the upgrade for sure. This may seem a little weird on my part but I kinda like you using older already used stuff for the chickens it just feels right for some reason, like it belonged there all the time.. Cheers and best wishes.
We live in the south, so we get more ice than snow and when we get snow, it doesn't last more than a week. But we've had up to 18" come down in a day. All that to say you'd still have to alter things for your environment. We use those carports for animal shelters, chicken coops, storage sheds, etc on our farm. We cover the tops with a roll of the no- climb field fencing tied on with wire or baling twine or zip ties. You can also buy clamps and metal conduit to add more trusses to the top and/or side support legs to add more framework. We've done variations of all of that before adding plastic or tarps or corrugated plastic or even metal to the framework. They all held up to the snow and ice load with the wire mesh fastened to the top as well as the torrential rains and winds. Bonus is you could push on the top wire fastened to the trusses with a backwards rake and knock it enough to knock off the snow load without puncturing the plastic or tarps. One thing we have to watch out for is the legs rust out here in the south after a few years, so we attached the longest tposts we could get to the legs, top to bottom with wire or baling twine wrappings. You could probably do wood reinforcing if the legs if termites aren't an issue like they are for us. The tposts have held the structures in place with days of 40-65+ winds. Additional ropes or strapping over the tarps and plastic held those in place. Hope that gives you some ideas. I've got some neighbors I'll be knocking on their doors to ask about their carport frames, much to the embarrassment of my teen daughter. I need some new hay storage areas and a 3 sided cow walk-in shelter in a pasture we just got ready. I'm also planning on making a couple more high-tunnels for the garden. In those, we tpost the side legs and use fencing on the tops and pool noodles or pipe insulation to support & protect the greenhouse plastic from rubbing through on the fencing. :-)
I have attached four cinder blocks at each corner of my poly tunnel with bungee cords to keep it from blowing away. Works well. Looking forward to seeing your project evolve. The chickens will be so happy! ❄️🌿 🐓
A recommendation for your carport. Plastic temporary fencing , stretched front to back on top of the frame , as a sub roof will increase the resistance of the roof. You might still need to clear the snow off but not as often. I have also seen wooden planks used in a similar method.
My first thought was to use the cattle panels as support over longitudinal supports (my first thought is bamboo) but you’d have to take it apart to put it together. A definite chicken/egg situation. Good luck!
Great Video We are adding living wall to out 40x 90 run with coops this spring we have many of those plants growing at my Farm in North Jersey ! OH and the fence wire barriers in the coop for grains to Grow !! best idea thanks again for all the greta ideas
One thing about the high tunnels. One may think about having a roll-able horizontal part in the middle of the height of the tunnel (something as a loft), that will be constantly rolled-in ( horizontally ) but rolled-out when someone is servicing the tunnel. In this way the heat exchange, that is happening in the higher part of the tunnel is minimized. It also serves as an insulating 2 layer sealing. Low tech but high efficiency solution.
I have the same structure issues. Living in northern Ontario. I get temp. down in the - 40s and deep snow. I find streching farm fence over the pipe frame before covering the structure with the plastic greatly reduces the unsupported area between the pipes. 🇨🇦
possibly using turnbuckle tensioned fencing wire from shoulder to shoulder over the ridge in between rafter poles at something like one to two foot spacing. small turnbuckles are relatively cheap and get the lines tight enough to twang.
I had one of those blow off my boat, and flip onto my car in a real high wind. Sigh. Used some metal fence posts wired to the corners to keep it in place. I would be tempted to put the black stuff on the shaded walls and use just the clear plastic on sunny side.
Strengthen the roof with the 4 cattle planes you made the greenhouse with. Preferably with heavy duty zip ties or wound wire. They should fit lengthwise. Two on top, one on each side near the top. Wood or metal planes to fill out the bottom half. Wood for the front and back for a door.
Possibly your could add slats or fencing to the roof and then use hoop house string to keep the plastic tight? It's just a thought and I'm super excited about this carport!!
Perhaps if you did cattle panels on the top on the outside for plastic strength and then cattle panels on the inside on the lower walls, it would keep the strength for the snow on the top and a backer for compost on the lower section.
Definitely adding cheap wire fencing or maybe even chicken wire to give your plastic some reinforcement. I added wire fencing over the top, also, then another plastic layer to create a bit of insulation gap between the two layers without having to inflate.
Sir, I suggest you look for "reinforced plastic sheeting," to offset the snow load issue. It is very strong; we're having masonry work done, and the mason constructed a little room with 2x4's off our back door, then covered with that stuff. You may be able to find used if you scope out local construction sites. Good call on reinforcing the structure: the same mason first used a folding tent support, wrapped in that plastic. The plastic survived the first snow it encountered, but the structure spectacularly failed. It was about a 2" snowfall.
Typical reinforced construction plastic will only last a few years when exposed to the sunshine all the time. We have worked with it in construction for years and it’s great stuff but wouldn’t suggest it for more of a ‘permanent’ structure like this.
I’ve had luck with running fencing wire or the panels from your existing tunnel to reinforce the top using zip ties to attach, then plastic over the top. Hopefully that would aid in preventing sagging from a snow load. What an awesome find.
I'm using 14ga fencing wire extensively as a light weight, low cost but pretty strong way to 'weave a web' over the framework. I'll share notes... Glad we're thinking in the same way!
As for that new compost greenhouse, I would put perlins across the top, and eves, and put metal roofing on it. Then you can use the plastic for the walls. Metal roofing will shed the snow better than plastic sheeting. Just a thought.
I once heard Joel Salatin suggest draping ropes over the high tunnel to keep the fluttering of the plastic to a minimum. He suggested it would reduce the wear and tear on the plastic.The ropes would be on the outside of the tunnel, running down the space between each bow. You mentioned that these spaces looked like they needed more support but the ropes might solve this problem.
I am in Missouri. 5b. Terribly cold here, but chickens are doing ok. Water keeps freezing so I will need to run electric to the coop to heat the water.
Every time I see your high tunnels maintaining a nice warm/hot compost in harsh cold weather, I'm simply amazed at how it survives! I keep thinking that instead of trying to clear away bulk for ease of access, to take advantage of it by simply running a series of non-corroding metal conduit/pipes through it that vent into an adjoining structure as a basically free heater? Of course I'm also wondering if the pipes would be too much of an obstacle to turning the compost? Either way, your deep freeze resistant compost is very impressive!
Thanks John. So many more layers of integration to explore... I wonder if we can have a hot water transfer system to bring the heat to the coop but in a closed loop so it doesn't bring up humidity for the hens... Lots to learn about for sure.
It's funny Stefan Sobkowiak at Miracle Farms just posted a video about keeping chickens in the cold, though his cold in Quebec was much colder than yours in New York. He also recently turned a car park into a greenhouse. He mentioned using a shelter with in a shelter to conserve more heat for the birds at night. But it doesn't look like a problem for you when your compost is so warm. But maybe it's something to keep in mind when deploying that insulated plastic. Perhaps in or around the coup if it's not already insulated. Not sure where to put it on a car park for maximum impact. I guess you could roll it out on top of the compost on the floor to insulate it at night, and then roll it back every morning before opening the coup. Anyway, good luck friend.
Looking again at your set up it seems to me that it may be worth insulating the side of the structure that is next to the hen house. I think that will ramp up your winter temp inside the structure quite a bit.
Consider using steel roofing for the top of the car port, you could probably screw some nailers on to the frame with self tap in screws. This also would give you shade in there during the summer.
That is an interesting idea, the steel would absolutely help with shedding snow load.. . The thing is I think I want to take the poly off entirely for the summer so it can get hydrated and flush excess nutrients. I think we can design the shade element with vining crops in the spring I look forward to exploring that. I'll keep in mind the metal roof idea for future projects for sure!
I like this idea. Some purlins and metal roofing will certainly strengthen the structure. It would be top heavy and may require some reinforcement on the walls and very solid anchoring method. Sean did bartered for some roofing recently!
@@edibleacres Could you perhaps use the cattle panels? You could wrap wire around everywhere the panel and carport overlap. For the frozen ground I would suggest using a hammer drill before trying to drive a stake. I’ve also seen screwlike anchors but I imagine those to be cost prohibitive.
@@edibleacres what about adding purlins and then on those add long lengths of wood running from the top of the roof to the bottom of the roof. This would make channels in the plastic to shed water. Where these met up at the top use 2 pieces of 1x4 as a ridge cap to tie it together. Added benefit is it would give you a couple of inches in height inside the structure. - in places.
Is there a way to fashion the roof carport rods to the coop itself at a slant ? Or move the carport structure up against the coop and secure rods to coop … also use rebar to tap into the ground and place vertical rods on those rebars for extra stability. Place a board (something light but sturdy like see through garden plexi) on coop that extends in a slant and attached to carport horizontals. This so rain and snow runs off of coop and compost tunnel instead of getting trapped. Rain can be captured on left side.
You could also build a hay bale wall in between coop a carport and fashion a gutter on top. This insulates the compost and keeps it even warmer maybe to run the tubing for hot water and it being more successful.
Lots of neat ideas here, and I appreciate them... I do think we want to keep them separated since it would simplify installation and management in the long run though...
Nice find!! Are you planning to do a few center posts? It would definitely be less ideal movement-wise inside but I could see that pipe buckling pretty easily under a snow load. There are some fancier ways to reinforce but I bet two posts in down the center with braces plus strong end walls would give you a lot of structural integrity.
Just thinking about you the other day as I tried to take apart the cattle panel tunnel we made... That *)(#&% thing was put together so sturdily it is taking forever to undo the wire ties and structure. So angering to have such well built infrastructure when you want to get it out of a place! :). Not sure exactly how this structure will get extra snow support but for sure it's gonna need it! That is todays work :)
@@edibleacres I remember that and wondering how long that structure would last. You can get a lot out of a little! Excited to see how that evolves - you deserve to be able to stand up a little straighter after all these years of having about 1/2” clearance!
A few thoughts you might find useful: I would ram a star picket (I think in America they are maybe called T posts??) into the ground by each corner and as many middle ‘legs’ as I had pickets for, as deep as I could ram it (perhaps half the length of the picket) then zip tie or wire the legs to the pickets to stop any shifting from wind interaction (thread poly pipe over the top of the posts so the sharp edges don’t slice your plastic). Second, I would have a row of milk crates along both the inner walls (long sides) loaded with wood chips; both as a carbon cache to catch any leakage from abundant/sloppy inputs and to provide a barrier/insulation between the snow bank on the outside of the plastic and your compost critters on the inside. You could even alternate woodchips and mostly finished compost/red wriggler caches in the milk crates to keep things interesting, pile the fresh compost on top of them as you currently do on the sides but they’ll be mostly up out of the snow bank interaction. Lastly, using the leaf bag haul as ‘bricks’ to make a retaining wall around the outside carport walls would provide an additional air barrier between the elements and the compost/chooks and would have access to them right where you need them to add as you’re turning/for chook paths. Always love the chicken TV and compost updates and am living vicariously through these videos until we have space for our own chooks!
Oh! I thought of another point to add rigidity: have a doorframe that is posts in the ground tall enough to touch the roof beams of the carport, then notched in/affixed to the carport structure to give some more strength.
that tarp is most likely insulation for concrete very common thing i actually removed it from a gunite pool today gunite is just sprayed concrete with small amount of water great find
You could use scrap pieces of PVC or metal pipe as cross members to connect and strengthen the roof uprights but the plastic would probably form shallow 'bowls' and then snow & water wouldn't run off properly. It's a few years later but if your neighbor still has the other car port and isn't using it, maybe you can make a trade for that and add those uprights in order to cut the spacing from four feet to two feet. Also, if you viewed it as a more solid structure, what else could you add to it? Lighting, power outlet, tool hooks?
seems like that cattle panel could do the job for reinforcing the sides. for the top i would just use chicken wire fencing. the bars along the top are usually strong enough to support snowloads though if you notice any sagging putting a vertical support (even just a 2x4 or a spare pipe) to hold up the ridgepole should be enough. you would just want to offset your doors to the side or build out an actual doorframe in that case.
We love seeing the oldest hens take naps on the compost. They eat for a while, especially the cooked grains we bring out on the coldest mornings, then take a nap on the steaming pile. Seems nice :)
Do you have anyone in your circle who handles a lot of hay? Hay twine holds up to a LOT of pressure and people who feed hay often have to dispose of it. I wonder if you could create cross supports by spanning the sections. I don't think it would cause damage to the greenhouse plastic...
Repurpose the cattle panels as roof supports? Like lay then atop the ribsand the skin over that? even if it's not the whole length it should be enough to handle the snow load right?
Love this. I mentioned before that I need to get this set next season. The one you're using now would definitely be fine for me ... or thats what I'm thinking ... I havev10 chickens, but I also have 3 goats. Perhaps a larger one would be better because that's a lotta poop !!! Not to mention scraps ... hmmmm. 🤔 Your thoughts ? Another question, do you find that all that steam the chickens get in the winter during the day that it bothers them at night? I don't even like a warmer in my coop because I feel its best if they have the cold. If it gets -10°F or colder, I'll run a warming light; otherwise I treat them like any other wild animal. I've had mine since chicks. After all, back in the 17, 18, and early 1900s they had no heat.
We don't heat the coop. It seems important that at night it is dry and the air is neutral. Some gaps to allow gasses to move and escape but winter temps seem fine so long as they can be comfortable where they sleep. I think having active compost IN their coop would be very very bad for them actually...
@@edibleacres Thanks for the response. I wasn't thinking about compost in the coop; I was thinking the chickens have already had a "steam bath" and may be colder in the coop. I do, however, do deep litter method in the winter because I live in Maine and winter is brutal here. But I do, rake the top a bit, sprinkle DE and add more pine shavings.
What if the chicken cover/compost pile was heating the green house? With an insulated water tank and using a compost system with a constant nitrogen source seems a nice bioreactor could be set up. Food for thought.
There could be GREAT opportunity to integrate the chicken scene with the greenhouse heating desires we have, but unfortunately they are just too far apart to make sense. Something to think about designing in another landscape for sure...
Love the chicken composting expansion...how do you plan to cover the top? The car port frame has a big surface area roof that has a small pitch. Wondering if covering with corrugated plastic sheets would make it easier for snow to be removed?
Would the caterpillar tunnel rope tension thing work to keep snow from collecting? It would be the easiest and cheapest… and those carports are theoretically designed to take/shed snow, right? Theoretically… If you wanted to go beefy right off the bat I’d be looking at those cattle panels for the roof. You’d probably need four cut at 10’ to make your 20’ length. I would think that could be something you could add later from the inside if you notice a problem down the line?
@@edibleacres Good point. Maybe chicken wire? My only worry with chicken wire would be getting enough tension so that it actually helps. Maybe adding extra supports from the ridge to the top pole, spreading the load a bit? Could be metal or wood, screwed into the top of the top pole and bottom of the ridge, or smaller sections (6-7') of cattle panel zip tied from top pole to ridge? Either way you might want to add some racking braces diagonally between ground posts, from the top of the corner post to the bottom of the next post in. It's going to be beautiful!
I hear you, and appreciate the input... I'll be sharing notes soon on what we went with, ended up kind of weaving a web of 14 gauge wire around to spread the load. The panels are going to be used for another hightunnel!
I tried putting leaves and compost in a section of the yard to compost but the chickens scatter it all over and the compost pile us no longer a pile or warm.
Just a thought .. Compost Tea Collection. If you have extra of the plastic sheets .. If you dig out a small series of collection ditches/trenches .. think reverse of irrigation , collecting liquid from the area down slope into a central / common point .. then line the bottom including the ditch/trench system with the extra plastic film .. effectively creating a mostly water proof layer/barrier on the very bottom of the entire compost area .. if you have to overlap multiple sheets to cover the area .. layer them like shingles are on a house , so that the downward flowing liquid flows on top of sheets .. once that bottom collection system is built , you fill and cover the top with compost as normal as high as you like .. thus you could create a gravity powered system to collect the compost tea that usually just drains out of the bottom of a compost pile ... that compost tea is a good nutrient rich fertilizer liquid your compost pile is making weather you collect it or not.
Neat additional design layer to consider for sure... Right now we simply try to have excess carbon downslope of the composting areas that once in a while we can dig out and use as mulch somewhere and replenish with more carbon. WAY less specific yield but works OK>
As far as possible purlins (cross roof supports) go, Retired at 40- Live.Life.Simple. has a good idea by cutting then correct diameter pvc into 3x diameter (x being the diameter of your structure sidewalls) then cutting lengthwise, then pilot drilling a small hole (to prevent splitting) and then attaching these to exterior grade lumber of your choice. Illustrated at th-cam.com/video/_UxCZaWX5s8/w-d-xo.html at 5:26 timestamp, (or you can just use the pipe brackets to anchor to wood, allowing you the amount of purlin support you need for your weather pattern. Trust me, its quite a bit easier than it sounds above! And inexpensive and strong!
My first thought was to use the cattle panels as support over longitudinal supports (my first thought is bamboo) but you’d have to take it apart to put it together. A definite chicken/egg situation. Good luck!
One suggestion: I have experience several of these structures take off in strong winds, even with stakes holding it down. My solution was to run 3 ropes (for a structure of your size) over the top and then tied to other more permanent structures or anchored strongly to the ground with BIG pegs. One time the wind was so strong - 100km/h gusts - I drove my tractor in and tied the structure to the tractor. Just beware of HIGH winds. Also, I always cleared the snow off every day by bashing inside with the bristles of a big broom, especially when then structure only had a greenhouse plastic skin. This should all workout fine although as I said before, I would have 2 layers of plastic to get higher air temps inside.
THank you for sharing your direct experience, super helpful. I think I've worked out a system for getting a great positive bite to the earth, I'll share notes when it's put together and you can let me know if I did alright. The benefit here is that the wind sheltering in this spot is amazing between the house, the coop and the big tree overhead...
I’m so glad for you guys to have this extra space! No more crouching down to do your lifting and turning in there. 🙌 I’m so excited to see it come together! Your hens are getting quite the upgrade too. 😍
I hope so.
Hey Sean, I've been a longtime view of your channel, drawn in by your thoughtful explanations of your projects. Last year I began converting a cornfield into a forest garden / silvoculture by making swales throughout the field. And last night I created this channel and uploaded my first videos to youtube. Some of your viewers may find them helpful, specifically if they are interested in creating swales. Shameless self-promotion... Anyway, thanks for the continued inspiration, it has been very encouraging in the moments when I haven't had access to land and needed to see and feel it.
I like your thumbnail! What a nice smile, usually you’re talking or showing us what you’ve been up to, so we don’t get to see it too often.
Thanks Darlene :)
Definitely a concrete blanket for curing concrete. Flat work like side walks etc. When you pour during a day that's cold and nightfall is coming with sub-freezing Temps you have to cover it with an insulation blanket to keep it from popping and cracking. It will look cracked and shotgun blasted if it does freeze before it cures.
Love following your show, have for a few years now. Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri. We grow rocks and hard clay. Have a pathetic replication of what you do going on, love watching for improvement ideas. Thanks to both of you!
Good to know on the sheet, thanks for that info!
This is why I recommend your channel to everyone I know. You’re always upgrading, adapting, and evolving! That’s a sign of true intelligence and humility at the same time. Friends of mine were asking me about some of the videos I’ve posted lately and I just told them if they want the real chicken/composting “guru” or master they need to check you out. Keep it coming!
This is one of the best channels on your. I can't wait to move back east and incorporate some of your compost and growing practices. Thank you so much for sharing your journey.
So happy. to share.
My husband is an engineer and the first thing he thought of is making sure the side framing is reinforced to hold the weight of any large snowfalls(like the one we just had). Most people think of the roof and forget that the load bearing framework can't handle the roof upgrade. Maybe some cross bars/brackets between/along the framework? I am sure your guys will think of something. You are quite resourceful after all.
I was thinking rebar to reinforce the wall tubing. Driving them 12" down as well to provide anchoring w/ T posts at the 4 corners driven down 18".
@@flatsville1 That is not a bad idea. Would help prevent buckling if the pieces are tall enough. Definitely one partial solution to consider for sure. Just depends on what is around or what one has access to as well.
The black tarp with insulation is a concrete blanket. You cover new concrete on cold days so it doesn’t freeze and crack. But works well covering garden beds to kill weeds or cover for winter.
The video series of you converting your neighbor's yard into a productive food forest was amazing and inspirational. Is there anyway you could imagine yourself doing that on a larger scale? Is it just as simple as swales and hugelmounds that go across an entire suburb instead of simply one backyard? Love your videos
Glad you like the videos :)
I think the larger you scale up the more you really really want to think through bigger picture elements, so it would be a bit like what we did but with much better planning in advance and more accurate mapping, etc.
Great score on the carport. It is also called a mobile garage (sold at harbor freight). I have a few of them and now use them as canopies (tarps over the tops) over my chicken pens. There are a few videos on YT of how to make them sturdier. One I instituted was to put a 2 x 3’s crossways just below the bends at the top of the sides. Side to side. (Ugh I hope that makes sense). It really helped to make it sturdier. I also have ratchet straps to cinder blocks at each leg to help hold it down. They came with the spiral anchors that go into the ground and connect to the bottom corner poles but I like the straps over the cross poles to cinder blocks on the ground better. They have been very stable in 50 mph gusts. Just FYI 😁
Thank you for sharing notes! I did reinforce in some ways, but there is much more to be done for sure...
I knocked on a neighbours door and ended up working on their organic farm for the season 🤔🤷♂️👍 thanks for doing that live Q&A at the start of the pandemic 🤙 oh and yeah you always need hinges for everything 🤣
That is awesome!
Hmm, I wonder if attaching a cattle panel on top of the carport would suffice to keep the weight from the snow at bay? Love the content. Thanks for keeping on even during the cold 🥶
Yes, I’ve done that. You only need the top sections cover by the panel, not the sides. It does make the structure more difficult to move if you need to (unless you take it all apart - which I never wanted to do!).
My friend & I had to do this with a cheap $300 greenhouse he bought which are very similar. Those roof ribs are too far apart for even heavy rain & would certainly collapse under snow.
my thoughts exactly!
I was thinking the same thing, use the cattle panels to span and support the gaps between each of the vertical poles of the new car port with zip ties or wire fasteners to hold everything together. Im excited to see this upgrade to the chicken composting system come together.... Thanks for the video update
And he does have some handy, right there!
looking forward to the upgrade for sure. This may seem a little weird on my part but I kinda like you using older already used stuff for the chickens it just feels right for some reason, like it belonged there all the time.. Cheers and best wishes.
Thanks, I feel that way too... ALways prefer to work with something on it's way out and get more life out of it than to buy new.
Fascinating developments! I am excited to see the next stage and so happy to see the chickens as always.
We live in the south, so we get more ice than snow and when we get snow, it doesn't last more than a week. But we've had up to 18" come down in a day. All that to say you'd still have to alter things for your environment. We use those carports for animal shelters, chicken coops, storage sheds, etc on our farm. We cover the tops with a roll of the no- climb field fencing tied on with wire or baling twine or zip ties. You can also buy clamps and metal conduit to add more trusses to the top and/or side support legs to add more framework. We've done variations of all of that before adding plastic or tarps or corrugated plastic or even metal to the framework. They all held up to the snow and ice load with the wire mesh fastened to the top as well as the torrential rains and winds. Bonus is you could push on the top wire fastened to the trusses with a backwards rake and knock it enough to knock off the snow load without puncturing the plastic or tarps. One thing we have to watch out for is the legs rust out here in the south after a few years, so we attached the longest tposts we could get to the legs, top to bottom with wire or baling twine wrappings. You could probably do wood reinforcing if the legs if termites aren't an issue like they are for us. The tposts have held the structures in place with days of 40-65+ winds. Additional ropes or strapping over the tarps and plastic held those in place. Hope that gives you some ideas. I've got some neighbors I'll be knocking on their doors to ask about their carport frames, much to the embarrassment of my teen daughter. I need some new hay storage areas and a 3 sided cow walk-in shelter in a pasture we just got ready. I'm also planning on making a couple more high-tunnels for the garden. In those, we tpost the side legs and use fencing on the tops and pool noodles or pipe insulation to support & protect the greenhouse plastic from rubbing through on the fencing. :-)
I have attached four cinder blocks at each corner of my poly tunnel with bungee cords to keep it from blowing away. Works well. Looking forward to seeing your project evolve. The chickens will be so happy! ❄️🌿 🐓
Nice simple solution!
A recommendation for your carport. Plastic temporary fencing , stretched front to back on top of the frame , as a sub roof will increase the resistance of the roof. You might still need to clear the snow off but not as often. I have also seen wooden planks used in a similar method.
Great notes, thank you
My first thought was to use the cattle panels as support over longitudinal supports (my first thought is bamboo) but you’d have to take it apart to put it together. A definite chicken/egg situation. Good luck!
Great Video We are adding living wall to out 40x 90 run with coops this spring we have many of those plants growing at my Farm in North Jersey ! OH and the fence wire barriers in the coop for grains to Grow !! best idea thanks again for all the greta ideas
That is awesome!
One thing about the high tunnels. One may think about having a roll-able horizontal part in the middle of the height of the tunnel (something as a loft), that will be constantly rolled-in ( horizontally ) but rolled-out when someone is servicing the tunnel. In this way the heat exchange, that is happening in the higher part of the tunnel is minimized. It also serves as an insulating 2 layer sealing. Low tech but high efficiency solution.
I have the same structure issues. Living in northern Ontario. I get temp. down in the - 40s and deep snow. I find streching farm fence over the pipe frame before covering the structure with the plastic greatly reduces the unsupported area between the pipes. 🇨🇦
Nice to see the progress on the enlarged composting tunnel. Your chickens are thriving, as always, but this will give everyone more space.
Looking forward to that for sure.
possibly using turnbuckle tensioned fencing wire from shoulder to shoulder over the ridge in between rafter poles at something like one to two foot spacing. small turnbuckles are relatively cheap and get the lines tight enough to twang.
I had one of those blow off my boat, and flip onto my car in a real high wind. Sigh. Used some metal fence posts wired to the corners to keep it in place. I would be tempted to put the black stuff on the shaded walls and use just the clear plastic on sunny side.
Yikes, that is no fun :(. Thank you for your notes on this project
Strengthen the roof with the 4 cattle planes you made the greenhouse with. Preferably with heavy duty zip ties or wound wire. They should fit lengthwise. Two on top, one on each side near the top. Wood or metal planes to fill out the bottom half. Wood for the front and back for a door.
Possibly your could add slats or fencing to the roof and then use hoop house string to keep the plastic tight? It's just a thought and I'm super excited about this carport!!
Perhaps if you did cattle panels on the top on the outside for plastic strength and then cattle panels on the inside on the lower walls, it would keep the strength for the snow on the top and a backer for compost on the lower section.
Definitely adding cheap wire fencing or maybe even chicken wire to give your plastic some reinforcement. I added wire fencing over the top, also, then another plastic layer to create a bit of insulation gap between the two layers without having to inflate.
That all seems smart!
Sir, I suggest you look for "reinforced plastic sheeting," to offset the snow load issue. It is very strong; we're having masonry work done, and the mason constructed a little room with 2x4's off our back door, then covered with that stuff. You may be able to find used if you scope out local construction sites.
Good call on reinforcing the structure: the same mason first used a folding tent support, wrapped in that plastic. The plastic survived the first snow it encountered, but the structure spectacularly failed. It was about a 2" snowfall.
Typical reinforced construction plastic will only last a few years when exposed to the sunshine all the time. We have worked with it in construction for years and it’s great stuff but wouldn’t suggest it for more of a ‘permanent’ structure like this.
I’ve had luck with running fencing wire or the panels from your existing tunnel to reinforce the top using zip ties to attach, then plastic over the top. Hopefully that would aid in preventing sagging from a snow load. What an awesome find.
I'm using 14ga fencing wire extensively as a light weight, low cost but pretty strong way to 'weave a web' over the framework. I'll share notes... Glad we're thinking in the same way!
As for that new compost greenhouse, I would put perlins across the top, and eves, and put metal roofing on it. Then you can use the plastic for the walls. Metal roofing will shed the snow better than plastic sheeting. Just a thought.
Thanks for your input here Randall
I once heard Joel Salatin suggest draping ropes over the high tunnel to keep the fluttering of the plastic to a minimum. He suggested it would reduce the wear and tear on the plastic.The ropes would be on the outside of the tunnel, running down the space between each bow. You mentioned that these spaces looked like they needed more support but the ropes might solve this problem.
Good note and a nice reminder as a solution to a minor technical issue we're having as we develop this... Thank you!
Definitely need to reinforce but u have a frame to work with and attach to...... awesome 😊
I am in Missouri. 5b. Terribly cold here, but chickens are doing ok. Water keeps freezing so I will need to run electric to the coop to heat the water.
Yep FREE is my favorite four letter word… and or favorite F word.
Very exciting expansion!
Thank You
Every time I see your high tunnels maintaining a nice warm/hot compost in harsh cold weather, I'm simply amazed at how it survives! I keep thinking that instead of trying to clear away bulk for ease of access, to take advantage of it by simply running a series of non-corroding metal conduit/pipes through it that vent into an adjoining structure as a basically free heater? Of course I'm also wondering if the pipes would be too much of an obstacle to turning the compost? Either way, your deep freeze resistant compost is very impressive!
Thanks John. So many more layers of integration to explore... I wonder if we can have a hot water transfer system to bring the heat to the coop but in a closed loop so it doesn't bring up humidity for the hens... Lots to learn about for sure.
It's funny Stefan Sobkowiak at Miracle Farms just posted a video about keeping chickens in the cold, though his cold in Quebec was much colder than yours in New York. He also recently turned a car park into a greenhouse. He mentioned using a shelter with in a shelter to conserve more heat for the birds at night. But it doesn't look like a problem for you when your compost is so warm. But maybe it's something to keep in mind when deploying that insulated plastic. Perhaps in or around the coup if it's not already insulated. Not sure where to put it on a car park for maximum impact. I guess you could roll it out on top of the compost on the floor to insulate it at night, and then roll it back every morning before opening the coup. Anyway, good luck friend.
Thank you!
Perhaps u-bolt some wood strips to the metal frames (top and sides), then nail cross pieces as normal?
😂 I feel put out when it’s 15° ABOVE zero! Great stuff as always!
I'm getting used to this winter now!
Looking again at your set up it seems to me that it may be worth insulating the side of the structure that is next to the hen house. I think that will ramp up your winter temp inside the structure quite a bit.
We'll explore some ideas for sure.
Very excited to see how this project works out for you. Feels like a ripe opportunity for a “movin’ on up” reference… George Jeffer-hen?
Wshew :)
Consider using steel roofing for the top of the car port, you could probably screw some nailers on to the frame with self tap in screws. This also would give you shade in there during the summer.
That is an interesting idea, the steel would absolutely help with shedding snow load.. . The thing is I think I want to take the poly off entirely for the summer so it can get hydrated and flush excess nutrients. I think we can design the shade element with vining crops in the spring I look forward to exploring that. I'll keep in mind the metal roof idea for future projects for sure!
I like this idea. Some purlins and metal roofing will certainly strengthen the structure. It would be top heavy and may require some reinforcement on the walls and very solid anchoring method. Sean did bartered for some roofing recently!
@@edibleacres Could you perhaps use the cattle panels? You could wrap wire around everywhere the panel and carport overlap. For the frozen ground I would suggest using a hammer drill before trying to drive a stake. I’ve also seen screwlike anchors but I imagine those to be cost prohibitive.
@@jakes2221 lol, the roof barter video gave me the idea
@@edibleacres what about adding purlins and then on those add long lengths of wood running from the top of the roof to the bottom of the roof. This would make channels in the plastic to shed water. Where these met up at the top use 2 pieces of 1x4 as a ridge cap to tie it together. Added benefit is it would give you a couple of inches in height inside the structure. - in places.
Is there a way to fashion the roof carport rods to the coop itself at a slant ? Or move the carport structure up against the coop and secure rods to coop … also use rebar to tap into the ground and place vertical rods on those rebars for extra stability. Place a board (something light but sturdy like see through garden plexi) on coop that extends in a slant and attached to carport horizontals. This so rain and snow runs off of coop and compost tunnel instead of getting trapped. Rain can be captured on left side.
Or you could fashion a slanted gutter in between coop and carport structure to utilize rain and snow runoff into water storage containers
You could also build a hay bale wall in between coop a carport and fashion a gutter on top.
This insulates the compost and keeps it even warmer maybe to run the tubing for hot water and it being more successful.
Lots of neat ideas here, and I appreciate them... I do think we want to keep them separated since it would simplify installation and management in the long run though...
Nice find!! Are you planning to do a few center posts? It would definitely be less ideal movement-wise inside but I could see that pipe buckling pretty easily under a snow load. There are some fancier ways to reinforce but I bet two posts in down the center with braces plus strong end walls would give you a lot of structural integrity.
Just thinking about you the other day as I tried to take apart the cattle panel tunnel we made... That *)(#&% thing was put together so sturdily it is taking forever to undo the wire ties and structure. So angering to have such well built infrastructure when you want to get it out of a place! :).
Not sure exactly how this structure will get extra snow support but for sure it's gonna need it! That is todays work :)
@@edibleacres I remember that and wondering how long that structure would last. You can get a lot out of a little! Excited to see how that evolves - you deserve to be able to stand up a little straighter after all these years of having about 1/2” clearance!
A few thoughts you might find useful: I would ram a star picket (I think in America they are maybe called T posts??) into the ground by each corner and as many middle ‘legs’ as I had pickets for, as deep as I could ram it (perhaps half the length of the picket) then zip tie or wire the legs to the pickets to stop any shifting from wind interaction (thread poly pipe over the top of the posts so the sharp edges don’t slice your plastic). Second, I would have a row of milk crates along both the inner walls (long sides) loaded with wood chips; both as a carbon cache to catch any leakage from abundant/sloppy inputs and to provide a barrier/insulation between the snow bank on the outside of the plastic and your compost critters on the inside. You could even alternate woodchips and mostly finished compost/red wriggler caches in the milk crates to keep things interesting, pile the fresh compost on top of them as you currently do on the sides but they’ll be mostly up out of the snow bank interaction. Lastly, using the leaf bag haul as ‘bricks’ to make a retaining wall around the outside carport walls would provide an additional air barrier between the elements and the compost/chooks and would have access to them right where you need them to add as you’re turning/for chook paths. Always love the chicken TV and compost updates and am living vicariously through these videos until we have space for our own chooks!
Oh! I thought of another point to add rigidity: have a doorframe that is posts in the ground tall enough to touch the roof beams of the carport, then notched in/affixed to the carport structure to give some more strength.
Consistently -20F annually here in Iowa, just for anybody keeping records
that tarp is most likely insulation for concrete very common thing i actually removed it from a gunite pool today gunite is just sprayed concrete with small amount of water great find
You could use scrap pieces of PVC or metal pipe as cross members to connect and strengthen the roof uprights but the plastic would probably form shallow 'bowls' and then snow & water wouldn't run off properly. It's a few years later but if your neighbor still has the other car port and isn't using it, maybe you can make a trade for that and add those uprights in order to cut the spacing from four feet to two feet.
Also, if you viewed it as a more solid structure, what else could you add to it? Lighting, power outlet, tool hooks?
I think I've got ideas on how to help the roofline hold more, I'll share notes later!
seems like that cattle panel could do the job for reinforcing the sides. for the top i would just use chicken wire fencing. the bars along the top are usually strong enough to support snowloads though if you notice any sagging putting a vertical support (even just a 2x4 or a spare pipe) to hold up the ridgepole should be enough. you would just want to offset your doors to the side or build out an actual doorframe in that case.
Thanks!
Nice. Their feet certainly stay toasty.
We love seeing the oldest hens take naps on the compost. They eat for a while, especially the cooked grains we bring out on the coldest mornings, then take a nap on the steaming pile. Seems nice :)
Do you have anyone in your circle who handles a lot of hay? Hay twine holds up to a LOT of pressure and people who feed hay often have to dispose of it. I wonder if you could create cross supports by spanning the sections. I don't think it would cause damage to the greenhouse plastic...
We have a huge pile of hay twine, it's amazing stuff! I am using 14ga wire for this to help support, I think that may do the trick actually.
Could you use the cattle panels, laid lengthwise, to reinforce the roof against snows?
Great minds think alike!
Repurpose the cattle panels as roof supports? Like lay then atop the ribsand the skin over that? even if it's not the whole length it should be enough to handle the snow load right?
Love this. I mentioned before that I need to get this set next season. The one you're using now would definitely be fine for me ... or thats what I'm thinking ... I havev10 chickens, but I also have 3 goats. Perhaps a larger one would be better because that's a lotta poop !!! Not to mention scraps ... hmmmm. 🤔 Your thoughts ?
Another question, do you find that all that steam the chickens get in the winter during the day that it bothers them at night? I don't even like a warmer in my coop because I feel its best if they have the cold. If it gets -10°F or colder, I'll run a warming light; otherwise I treat them like any other wild animal. I've had mine since chicks. After all, back in the 17, 18, and early 1900s they had no heat.
We don't heat the coop. It seems important that at night it is dry and the air is neutral. Some gaps to allow gasses to move and escape but winter temps seem fine so long as they can be comfortable where they sleep. I think having active compost IN their coop would be very very bad for them actually...
@@edibleacres Thanks for the response. I wasn't thinking about compost in the coop; I was thinking the chickens have already had a "steam bath" and may be colder in the coop. I do, however, do deep litter method in the winter because I live in Maine and winter is brutal here. But I do, rake the top a bit, sprinkle DE and add more pine shavings.
You could attach woven wire to the roof. Then add plastic
if you power lights in the greenhouse with solar that could help
Fuckin love this channel, keep up the good work bro!
Ha thanks!
thank you for sharing...this is very good content and vid
What if the chicken cover/compost pile was heating the green house? With an insulated water tank and using a compost system with a constant nitrogen source seems a nice bioreactor could be set up. Food for thought.
There could be GREAT opportunity to integrate the chicken scene with the greenhouse heating desires we have, but unfortunately they are just too far apart to make sense. Something to think about designing in another landscape for sure...
Can you use your cow panels over the top for support?
I would think some wire between the rafters and a couple posts down the middle would be about right
Love the chicken composting expansion...how do you plan to cover the top? The car port frame has a big surface area roof that has a small pitch. Wondering if covering with corrugated plastic sheets would make it easier for snow to be removed?
We have old greenhouse poly on it now, we'll refine it ffor sure.
Would the caterpillar tunnel rope tension thing work to keep snow from collecting? It would be the easiest and cheapest… and those carports are theoretically designed to take/shed snow, right? Theoretically… If you wanted to go beefy right off the bat I’d be looking at those cattle panels for the roof. You’d probably need four cut at 10’ to make your 20’ length. I would think that could be something you could add later from the inside if you notice a problem down the line?
Good ideas, I did think about integrating the cattle panels but they are super heavy to be so up high...
@@edibleacres Good point. Maybe chicken wire? My only worry with chicken wire would be getting enough tension so that it actually helps. Maybe adding extra supports from the ridge to the top pole, spreading the load a bit? Could be metal or wood, screwed into the top of the top pole and bottom of the ridge, or smaller sections (6-7') of cattle panel zip tied from top pole to ridge? Either way you might want to add some racking braces diagonally between ground posts, from the top of the corner post to the bottom of the next post in. It's going to be beautiful!
Sean, maybe you could fasten the cattle panels to the roof of your new structure?! These would add extra support with materials literally on hand!
I hear you, and appreciate the input... I'll be sharing notes soon on what we went with, ended up kind of weaving a web of 14 gauge wire around to spread the load. The panels are going to be used for another hightunnel!
Have you considered using those cattle panels somehow? For the "roof" area especially. I know they are only 16 feet long, but... Yeah. Just a thought.
I don't think I will in this scenario since they'd add so much extra weight up there... I've got some ideas up my tattered sleeve :)
So cool
I tried putting leaves and compost in a section of the yard to compost but the chickens scatter it all over and the compost pile us no longer a pile or warm.
The pile needs to be contained.. or built up again regularly.. I let my composting be in focused places, similarly to Sean
You have to rebuild it! We move compost around at least once a day in general...
Love your channel! Can anyone suggest a reputable fruit tree/bush supplier for zone 7? I haven't had much luck in the last few years.
Just a thought .. Compost Tea Collection.
If you have extra of the plastic sheets .. If you dig out a small series of collection ditches/trenches .. think reverse of irrigation , collecting liquid from the area down slope into a central / common point .. then line the bottom including the ditch/trench system with the extra plastic film .. effectively creating a mostly water proof layer/barrier on the very bottom of the entire compost area .. if you have to overlap multiple sheets to cover the area .. layer them like shingles are on a house , so that the downward flowing liquid flows on top of sheets .. once that bottom collection system is built , you fill and cover the top with compost as normal as high as you like .. thus you could create a gravity powered system to collect the compost tea that usually just drains out of the bottom of a compost pile ... that compost tea is a good nutrient rich fertilizer liquid your compost pile is making weather you collect it or not.
Neat additional design layer to consider for sure... Right now we simply try to have excess carbon downslope of the composting areas that once in a while we can dig out and use as mulch somewhere and replenish with more carbon. WAY less specific yield but works OK>
As far as possible purlins (cross roof supports) go, Retired at 40- Live.Life.Simple. has a good idea by cutting then correct diameter pvc into 3x diameter (x being the diameter of your structure sidewalls) then cutting lengthwise, then pilot drilling a small hole (to prevent splitting) and then attaching these to exterior grade lumber of your choice. Illustrated at th-cam.com/video/_UxCZaWX5s8/w-d-xo.html at 5:26 timestamp, (or you can just use the pipe brackets to anchor to wood, allowing you the amount of purlin support you need for your weather pattern.
Trust me, its quite a bit easier than it sounds above! And inexpensive and strong!
It migh seem a silly question but does the hot soil met the plastic?
Not a silly question at all! No, it doesn't. It may get hot for sure but not enough to melt plastic....
Can we use rice Hull as mulch? It's the only thing free at my place.
I think that would be great!
(We apparently shqre à back) laughed so hard. My partner and i share a back, too. Very ofter we both get sore zt the same time.
The old sharebackitis!
Gotta treat your shared back right x) !
Can i feedback fermened oat To my chichen
That seems reasonable.
Ye
❤❤❤❤
Do you ever have problems with rats?
Yeah it's definitely winter
That old plastic going to rip to small peices soon enough. You’re going to introduce a whole boatload of nastiness into your compost.
My first thought was to use the cattle panels as support over longitudinal supports (my first thought is bamboo) but you’d have to take it apart to put it together. A definite chicken/egg situation. Good luck!