Swedish Dive Bomber Tactics and Innovation
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- German Ju-87s, Soviet Pe-2s and US SBD dive bombers are known far and wide. But one country that truly innovated dive bombing isn't talked about. So let's remedy that!
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⚜ Sources ⚜
Hans G. Andersson, SAAB Aircraft since 1937, Smithsonian Institute Press, 1989
Smith, Peter; Dive Bomber!: Aircraft, Technology, and Tactics in World War II,
Smith, Peter; The History of Dive Bombing,
⚜ Honourable mentions ⚜
A big thank you to all my Patreons for making my work and research possible!
Thank you to Military History Visualized for his help with this video: / militaryhistory
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This is a part of history I really wanted to get out there because Swedens innovation on dive bombing is so often forgotten as they did not take an active part in WW2.
A quick note on the Swedish planes mentioned in this video. As mentioned in the video, I use the term 'dive bomber' to simplify and place the planes within the context and scope of the video. These planes were able to fulfill a plethroa of roles and were tactically not limited to dive bombing. Instead, they were set up to be more flexible but special attention was placed on the ability to perform a dive bombing attack.
Average Joesson ····
I thought Sweden were neutral during the war!!!!!
Likely related to cowardice. :)
They were
Bismarck why don't you use War Thunder instead of IL-2? They're both a Gaijin product...
I remember watching a 1940s movie about Swedish divebombers when I was a kid, it was basically a less homoerotic version of Topgun, but with divebombers 😁
Oh, do you know the name? I' be interested !
Bismarck I looked through the Beredskaps/Readiness movie wiki and it might be Första Divisionen (1941), couldn't find a good stream of it though 🙁
www.imdb.com/title/tt0033642/ here is the info
cdon.se/film/f%C3%B6rsta_divisionen-18518809
Thank you all!
There's something about Swedish ingenuity, at least in my mind anyway... I mean, in Estonia we still use Ericsson m/1937 field telephones we got from Sweden. They still work great.
Or how about the improvement upon (I believe originally German) mess kit with the addition of a wind screen, making it a Swedish model 1940 mess kit. Yeah, we use those too. The windscreen on mine was made in 1976. Stove in 1964. Sturdy Swedish steel.
And we appreciated Swedish squad tents a lot. But then the higher-ups ruined a good thing and replaced these with some non-Swedish tents that have the stove separate from the center beam, meaning it has less room. As opposed to the Swedish one. If it ain't broke, why fix it :|
I used those phones when I was in the army! They are so great. Completely indestructable and pretty good sound quality. I loved them! And then we got some plastic crap phones that would break if it got too cold...
Sweden has lots of issues no doubt, but innovation is not one of them
That's the weird thing about this country; we are one of the world's leading exporters of arms and military technology (at least per capita). We had the 4th largest airforce in the world well into the 70's, are now in the absolute forefront in military radar, comms, aircrafts, Surface to Surface-missiles, world leading in self propelled artillery systems and ammo, AP-guns for ships, non-nuclear attack Submarines, Stealth ships, Armored Infantry Vehicles and all kinds of Bofors guns, f.e the one on the AC-130 Gunship. All Bofors, SAAB and Ericsson Radio Systems.
Nowadays BAE does most marketing and has a stake in the business, that's why it's become more known to the public in recent years.
Maybe one of the most widespread AT-Guns since its debut in the 1960's is the Carl Gustaf AT/HE launcher, still the favourite of all special forces around the world, such as SAS, SEAL and DELTA (though under other names).
Still, Sweden "do NOT sell arms to any country at war"...(man, the hypocrisy...and the money, the money...peace).
They started producing CG in 1948. M2 (model, mark, whatever) came out in 1964 and I was told that one was a significant improvement - it included a carrying sling. My unit uses both M1 and M2 for lack of two newer variants which weigh about 10 and 6,7 kg (M3 and M4).
My squad's AT guy is a 210 cm tall wrestler. Still that's a whopping 15 kg in addition to all the other equipment that we have today. "Light" infantry my ass. :I
edit: I've fired it a few times. Felt great.
Swedish ingenuity is indeed great, but, please, tell Ikea to put actual instructions in the furniture they export. The illustrations look like you are having sex with the furniture. Not that there is anything wrong with that as long as the bookcase is consenting. ;)
your pronunciation of linköping was perfect mate!
Thank you! I tried getting them right but I think it is hit and miss for the most part :)
Yeah! Flawless pronunciation for a non Swede i'd say!
These themed videos are nice and I love your work. As a Swede, I always find it interesting when the spotlight is shone on some topic of this nation, and I appreciate your effort in both pronounciation and research. As a slice of constructive critique, I'd advice that wherever you use names and such that you are uncertain if you get right, you would add the names in writing to the video. Either in the video itself, as a TH-cam annotation, or as a subtitle-option of some sort. It would make it easier if your viewers wish to make googlin's and research themselves on the names and topics. ^w^b
A bit... I mean "Vilstgota" is "Västgöta", "Frosen" is "Frösön" and a few other minor things. Pronounciation of Linköping was pretty spot on though.
As for the video it was a nicely put together analysis of Swedish capability and tactics and I quite enjoyed it. We actually have a wartime airfield not far from town. They were stationed there in case war broke out. In Sweden the time 1939-1945 is usually referred to as "Beredskapstiden" or "The Time of Readiness" because the entirety of the Swedish armed forces were training, guarding our borders and making preparations to defend the country against what was considered an imminent threat.
My hometown! all you were missing was the Östgötte dialect!
Whats remarkable is how in this video you used real time game-play footage from flight simulators yet it looked better quality than the animations that would typically accompany a documentary on this subject back in the early 90s lol
Really good job on the video must have taken ages to edit !
As I wrote in a comment thread somewhere, the SAAB B 17 had an interesting innovation in its landing gear. They folded backwards and not into the wing, and had this streamlined cover that made them look almost like drop tanks when "retracted". There were several reasons for that design. First, it left more space in the wings for fuel. But more interestingly, they doubled as dive brakes. When starting a dive attack, the landing gears were extended as speed brakes to avoid overstressing the airframe or engine. With this design no separate airbrakes were needed, thus saving weight and complexity. They could also be replaced with retractable, flush skis for winter operations. There was also a float-equipped version, the SAAB S 17BS.
I heard a story that the covers where refered to as being magic, because in the early models they were not fitted strongly enough to the wheel strut so they broke off and disappeared without warning.
That sounds like Saab right there
Folding back is not safe. In a failure to deploy the landing gear, there is no assistance from the ram air effect.
So it was the same type of landinggear that was used in the Curtiss p-36 and p-40, and the Vought f4u corsair. The main landinggear of the corsair also functioned as airbrakes that needed to be extended before diving.
Mark M actually, it was very safe. Because of the covers on the gear struts you could basically land on them like skis in the event of a belly landing
3 of the 4 Harts (Harts 'X', 'Y' and 'Z' ) sent to Finland were lost during their first mission. X and Y due to collision with each-other resulting in both pilots captured and one observer killed. The surviving observer remained in the plane as it hit the trees and was thrown through the bottom of the aircraft but managed to ski home.
Hart 'Z' was intercepted and shot down but both the pilot and the observer (Sgt Thure Hansson which was an acquaintance of mine and the one who told me the story) also managed to ski back to friendly lines.
More detailed reading here for those interested: surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/swedish_aviators/sweden_hansson.htm
Martin Inge
Hah, skiing back like a true Swede
The A32 Lansen used this type of bomb sight, I saw what could happen if the aircraft did not have the correct angel against the target. It was a demonstration of 5 aircraft, It should have been 6 but one had to return to base due to technical problems. They should bomb a marsh in the middel of Sweden as a target (it was a combined demonstration that day with the Artillery and Airforce) 4 aircraft got in well and dropped one or 2 500kg bombs each, but the 5th was in a to shallow dive so the bombs did not release until the pilot "dipped" the nose and the the bombs missed the target with about 500 meters and started a forest fire. So we could se how a helicopter took some buckets of water from some small lakes and put the fire out. The main target was about 1,3 km away, these blasts from the bombs was felt like a thump in Your chest. It was awsome for a boy in his early teens to see this.
I love the way you go about making your history lessons. I look forward to all your videos
Thank you :)
Swedish tactics during the age of line battles was also quite impressive. The platoon would be placed in two lines and would walk calmly toward their opponents. The opposing force would definitely get the first shot off, but at extreme range most of the shots would miss. Once the enemies fire the first volley, the Swedes started running toward them while they reloaded. Once the Swedes were about 15 paces away from the enemy formation, the first line would crouch and fire and the second line would run right past them to 10 paces and do the same. After the second line fires, the first line charges past them with bayonets ready and would initiate melee combat with the horribly wounded enemy formation, being reinforced by the second line a few seconds later once their bayonets were ready. It had to be done quickly, for if the enemy force was able to reload before the two volleys are fired, then the Swedes would be in for a bad day.
Not to mention the tough cavalry formations that no other army in the world could master.
för kung och fosterland
OmgRaggy skål!
BirkBurk skål för fan!
for king and fetuscountry
För moder Svea 🇸🇪💪🏻
I'm very proud of Sweden (not right now).
But we have always been great engineers, even though we are quite a small country (10 million) and (6-7 million around ww2).
I have always had that lovely feeling that my fellow Swede from across the land is belongs to a second family of mine, to take a cup of coffee with. I dont want to bring in politics but that has changed. This coherence and unity not to be found soon. And may not been found in any other country ever.
By the way, its said that the Swedish Airforce "Instructions book(?)" is written in blood. Because all the mistakes that led to death have been noted whilst doing the extreme tactics.
Long live family Sweden.
Sorry, I can't speak IKEA
@styrbjornstarke7394 As a Brit I'm Glad to have Sweden as an Ally 🇸🇪🤝🇬🇧 !!
Erik Wilkenson was involved in the development of the American Norden bombsight used in B-17s and B-24s during WW2, then went home to design the sights for the B17 and B18, and stayed with Saab to design sights for every combat design up to and including the J35 Draken.
I love these videos of yours Bismarck! Especially this topic in particular, while it may be esoteric, I just picked up the expanded Sweden mod for HOI IV and was just playing as them the other day. Keep up the good work.
Im Swedish and i really appreciate this video! Tack så mycket Bismarck!
Those graphics...are you sure you're not the same person as Military History Visualised?
Yes I am. MHV and me chat daily and collaborate since a few months.
This is an exceptionally fine TH-cam contribution. Herr "Bismarck" draws attention to the extensive lineage of Swedish aircraft innovation, which includes the fact that even in the 1940s, Sweden was producing combat aircraft fully competitive with US, British, German, Russian, and Japanese designs. You can check our as well the SAAB18 and SAAB21 to see how successful Sweden's air effort was during WWII. Even today, Sweden is the only small nation (population only, please!) that remains truly competitive in combat aircraft design - just check out the new T-X contender (with Boeing, but still all-Swedish). For sure, Sweden's aircraft industry has taken full advantage of innovation abroad - the best example is the amazing SAAB Tunnan - but nonetheless it has excelled in its own, native design skills and creativity. For example, there are a number of design elements and cues in the SAAB17 that hearken to American dive bomber fashion, but the result is strictly a Swedish creation. Your discussion of antiship tactics was really useful too. You highlight the doctrinal thinking of Sweden during a very difficult period - in terms of defensive anti-access, area denial (A2AD). Personally, I would love to see more videos like this from you. Thank you! all the best, Mike Vlahos
That dive bombing method still existed as an option in the Viggen but the computer did all the calculations.
If it existed until 1977 in it's mechanical variant that means it went out of service when the A32A Lansen was replaced by the AJ37 Viggen
*Plane explodes in to million pieces from an artillery round*
AI Pilot: Mayday! Mayday! I'm going down!
The threat of a Naval invasion has spured a lot of Swedish development in the aviation department. As dive bombing and torpedos became obsolete/impractical Sweden was/is at the forefront of development regarding aircraft borne anti-ship missiles. And the planes themselves, designed with anti-ship duty in mind.
There is a story that may be apocryphal, but you might find it interesting. When the B4 (Northrop A17 model 8) was first delivered to F4 in Frösön, a high ranking officer is said to have inspected the new units and was offered to fly as a passenger. The pilot, very eager to show off his new aircraft did his best to skirt the envelope. When he got out after landing the officer is said to have remarked: "A terrible weapon! Terrible! The only issue is how to lure the enemy on board before take off..."
Tusen tak! Interessant! Jag hoppas att ni presenter mer lycka som Svensk "dive bombers."
Who are the ten people who didn't like this video??? What's not to like!? Thank you, Herr Bismarck, for another wonderful video.
As a swede, I found this video very entertaining! I loved it! I had no clue my country did this!
When I saw the thumbnail I was like: Oh, interesting topic for Military History Visualized
Your content is superb! But I must say that I had trouble finding this channel again, even after searching keywords like "bf109 WT" and "dogfighting guide". Fortunately I could remember a title of a video obscure enough for youtube's search engine to bring me back with "Swedish dive bomber tactics" Keep up the good work!
My SAAB car is the best...212,000 miles and counting :)
Lothar von Richthofen
You can always trust Sweden for quality
Time to start up the old fued again...
My Volvo has run further.
SAAB are awesome though. Wish i had a SAAB And my Volvo
Over 300k on mine :) Original turbo and everything. Close to 300k on my Volvo too.
My old volvos mile counter stopped at 487??? something, and it stopped almost 10 years ago. She has taken us far.
Very nice, they are great cars. I am completely guessing on my mileages as they also stopped there about the same time.
I love your videos, so informative and entertaining. Thank you
Glad you enjoy them, Thank you very much :)
Seeing as how we're a Swedish n00b War Thunder youtube channel we sooo need a Swedish tree in the game (never mind that Swedish soil hasn't seen armed conflict in 200 years).
Love this video!!
UHCAF Gaming
I’d love to see a Tunan or Lansen
0:08 Boom! headshot
Well that was a high caliber AA gun with a direct hit
How did I get to this video???!!! Now I'm binge watching his videos... Kudos
Never thought I’d be interested in Swedish dive bomber tactics
Well done Bis. Yet another refreshing surprise from the history books.
I had not heard of the Swedish 9. But the Royal Navy had the Skua dive bomber and 3 of them used a variant of this tactic to sink a German cruiser.
OMG turns out Bismarck is in fact Military History Visualized
Thank you for making this video. Very educational indeed!
This is beautifully researched. Thanks Bismarck
5:33
The Winter War was between 1939 and 1940, not -40 and -41. By 1941, the second war with the Soviet Union (the Continuation War) had begun.
Was gonna comment that too
it is kind of funny to me that, Sweden has such a long tradition of military innovation, despite frequently being overlooked.
I thought I was watching a Alternative History Hub Video until I saw the watermark!, great job on you videos!. Keep em' coming!
Getting them military history visualized vibes
If you are the producer of the 3d CGI in these videos, you might want to look into adjusting the tangents on your motion curves. These produce a smoother "turn" or change in direction of any object in a scene, be it Camera, or the objects "flying" themselves.
Having actually flown, I see some decent "Jinking" of the airplanes in flight (small motions due to wind and air consistency), but the turns are too erratic, and especially the pullouts, where a pilot would be using a steady pull on the stick, rather than the constant correction that usually occurs during turns.
The animations are representative and supposed to give a general idea of what is happening. They are not meant to simulate actual flying, that is what the simulator footage is for.
F6 Västgöta Flygflottilj at Karlsborg.
Väsgöta comes from "Västra Götaland", which is a region with Gothenburg as the main city.
What is the most useful Dive Bombing Tactic?
For a Second I thought I am watching Military visualized :D. Keep up
Oh my god, IL-2 STURMOVICK.. I grew up with this game man, played it from 2007-2011
Fascinating! Great video 👍🏻
The ships would be jigging left and right so I don't see how the short dive and bomb release would work.
If you read "Shattered Sword" you see the maneuvering ships were very difficult to hit.
Excellent video!
F4 Jämtland in Östersund, is where I used to live!
Really well made video 👍👍
Thank you very much, indeed.
Very interesting video! However, it's "Västgöta", not "Vilstgota" as in the video at 05:02. Not that it makes a difference. Even Peter C. Smith had it wrong in his book :)
You've got a new sub. friend! Excellent content! :) Greetings from Greece! :)
Cool stuff mate!
7:19 The effectiveness *for Sweden* perhaps. Japan used a very similar tactic in the beginning of the war, and it was found to be highly effective. For torpedoes as well as dive bombers. It was an MHV (Military History Visualized) episode, I will see if I can find which one.
Was the Swedish Bomb Sight a precursor of Hughes AN/ASB-19 Angle Rate Bombing System? Great video BTW
ah, we had many Swedes where I lived as a child. We had a place, fes gugen, but I do not know how to pronounces it online :)
Another well made piece of exposition, mate.
I think that Sweden's involvement with the development of the Ju87 would have heavily influenced their own dive bombing aspirations and design implementation. I find it fascinating that the Swedish demands for dive bombing were completely different than the Germans.
I'd love to see a video of your opinion on the the secret collusion between Germany and Sweden on tank and close air support design and how you think it initially influenced both countries and later, the rest of the world.
There was loots of collaboration, German arms manufacturers was restricted/prohibited to develop new wepons, so they did bought part of Swedish arms manufacturers and developed wepons there. The Swedish 75mm AA gun is the "ancestor" to the German 88mm AA gun etc Not also that Sweden and Germany was "historical frends" and German language did have the same status as the English language have today.
Can we please enjoy this video in peace? There's tons and tons of other videos about Sweden and their politics. Thanks man.
Great video as always! :D
Nice job Bismarck keep them coming!
Great video, thank you!
Could you please make a video tutorial about using Pe-2 as dive bomber in Il-2?
I'm from Sweden and I thought it was cool to see this video and watch old swedish planes
Great video man
Excellent video! 👍👌👏
Once again outstanding video! I love it when you cover generally unknown topics! Keep up the great work!
At 1:22 what is that badge at the top of the picture, above the three crowns badge. I have never seen that before.
interesting I fancy myself an armchair aviation historian and I never knew about this especially as it pertained to use in the F-86's in the USAF
Could have used the entire Swedish military during the Winter and Continuation War. Would certainly have helped give the Soviets even more of a black eye.
Hi Bismarck great video! can you in the future have a look at the French tactique called 'vol rasant' which proved to be disastrous and consequently light bombers formation got decimated very quickly in May 1940.
numero 66
Also another called ‘Le surrenduer’
Sorry
Great video!
Love your chanel
I'd love if you would do a video about the Finnish airforce during WW2
Certainly on the list!
5:02 Omg i live in Jämtland and Frösön is a part of Östersund where i live :D
The hawker hart to me kinda looks like the Soviet PO 2
F4 in Jämtland was Frösön, not Frosen. Sadly decommissioned today... Like the rest of our armed forces...
Back in the days we had an impressive air force with many exotic planes like Saab 21 and such.
100-500 Pound Meatball, and 50. Cal Ikea Screws
Aimpoint's are made in Sweden. They are the original "red dot" (optic, not a laser) weapon sight.
Reflector sights have been around since the early 1900s, and at least one other used a red dot reticule before Aimpoint, the Weaver Qwik-Point. Aimpoint made the first electric red dot sight though.
F1 was in Västerås, pronounced like Westeros (Which is where the name comes from). It's about 5 minutes from my house, damn civilian flights and choppers keeps me awake at night :P Both my father and grandfather served in F1 and F11 respectively. You might want to do a story about Italian bombers Sweden bought and how many Swedish pilots died due to their shitty builds.
Nice work as always!
Did you collaborate with Military History Visualized? Or will you do a collaboration with him?
Danke :) We are actively working together since the turn of the year
Kein Problem :)
Awesome! looking forward to more videos
I'm trying to imagine what IKEA would call one of these...
That's a very clever dive sight indeed!
True as this is, why don't you do a video on how and why dive bombers quickly came out of favour later in the war, and why they've never really been adopted again.
Note that the US Airforce was part of the Army through WWII, so an independent arm isn't needed to be effective.
Your amazing graphics made potentially dry information into gripping narration.
Tactic talk starts at 5:48
th-cam.com/video/ZkWam17m6N8/w-d-xo.htmlm48s
Thank you Mr. Bismarck for research and sumup!
Thank you for teaching me my country history in a foreign language :D
Next Swedish torpedo bombing - with the world famous Swedish Fish! It will be a sweet video I'm sure, something to chew on.
"world famous Swedish Fish" id give you a like but here, have some Surströmming instead, its a wonderful swedish traditional meal! im sure you'll love it!
The Swedish Hawker Hart (B4) have Bristol Pegasus engines and not RR Kestrel like the British versions.
Thank you.
1:16 that logo in the upper circle looks like a baguette
That video started off with a bang. pun intended
Fascinating!
The U-2 is called the Po-2 from what I remember
Awsöm wörk Biz! really liked this. :3
finally i learned something interesting from youtube!
You sound like Military History Visualised
The Swedish navy wanted a Carrier but we could only afford an aircraft cruiser HMS Gotland
"They turned the tide in the pacific" haha get it...? Turning a tide in an ocean?
Oh you ;)
This video pleases my patriotic heart!
MORE MORE MORE! :D
What game is the footage taken from?