Just my take, but as someone who took part in the vinyl resurgence 20-something years ago, I think the parallels to film photography are actually quite strong (just like digital music is there to fall back on, so is digital photography). That said, I think there is a key difference in that music on vinyl is something that you experience or “consume” and film photography is something that you “do”. It’s a difference between artistic appreciation and artistic expression or creation, and I think that may play into longevity. But the reasons I’m hearing from GenZ’ers about why they’re drawn to analogue photography is a pretty good mirror to why I got into vinyl in my teens, and from the takes I’ve heard the draw has less to do with the results of the photography and more to do with the process or act of it. But there’s 8 billion people out there so there’s bound to be a variety of driving forces! 😄
It's not the film camera that is the problem, it's the film. Expensive and requires toxic chemicals to develop. You'd be surprised at how fast you will get tired of having only 36 exposures, processing film, printing, digitizing (back to digital), etc. I did that in the 70s and 80s and glad I don't have to do that anymore. Each piece of paper costs. Each roll of film costs. Chemicals cost. What digital has done for me is vastly reduce the cost of photography. It's just different. I recently bought 2 rolls of film, one B&W, the other color. $50 later, I threw it all away. The lab ruined the whole thing. None of the pictures were worthy of saving. You have to find a lab that does excellent work, pay through the nose and end up back where you started, all images digitized.
@bondgabebond4907 I get what you say but I think the thrill of it is that 36 exposures really means 36 chances. This generation of new photographers see everything and more, but doesn't grasp it, but 36 exposures will. I will say chemicals have come a long way, while color isn't perfect, b&w is really safe overall since the presence of local material (coffee, potassium, baking soda), I think the digitalization of the photo is a hybrid of old way and new ways ofthinking, but the cherishing of a moment. I think 2020 did a lot to people, and one way is that lack of cherishment before.
@@bondgabebond4907I think you have been unlucky is all. I’ve been shooting film for 2 years now and I’ve had results I’m so happy about even developing and scanning at home. Developing is like following a recipe. As far as the cost, well I don’t disagree with you..
@@bondgabebond4907 There are so many ways you can reduce costs related to film: buy a 100' roll and fill canisters yourself, develop yourself, and scan/print yourself. The chemicals also haven't been "toxic" for some time. It's great that *you* enjoy digital, but a lot of people don't and prefer the in-depth process of actually creating photographs.
I just counted today that I have shot 165 rolls of film this year. That's quite something! I am enjoying the process and having fun with it just like I did when I started photography 25 years ago.
I really enjoyed this conversation. It was the most interesting I've heard on this topic and enlightened my understanding of why film photography is still so important.
This is an amazing example of an in-depth conversation covering what’s really happening. The section on 2nd hand cameras is exactly what i wanted to know. Thank you so much for this!
It’s a tough call. There’s essentially only 1 company making color film. That’s a huge weak point. On the other hand , as AI generated images are becoming more common place, digital images are becoming less valuable, people trust them less. Film and other vintage mediums are becoming a mark of authenticity so their value appears to increase. The currency of real will go up in value in the age of ai generated everything . 😊
This is the true Ai ITs a stupid thing.,...I ve come back tó film photography ITs also expensive but ITs real photography isnt ai and digital. Photography future Will be very interesting,.,
There are two things I want to mention here: The Filmomat team is working on automatizing the camera scanning workflow and I think we’ll see some solutions from them that will really make it much more viable for labs to use cameras in their workflow. The second thing is that Kodak’s whole color film production is still tied to the movie site of their business. I think they still don’t sell enough still films for them to justify running that big factory on that alone. But the movie site is doing great so I’m not worried about Kodak being able to keep things running.
I have not tested the updated Smart Convert but I have heard and seen some amazing results with it. Tethering, plus Smart converts automated conversion is amazing. -Tuomas
I enjoy every bit of it. Shooting, self developing, scanning, soon also printing. It calms me down. Pure me time. Digital gives me nothing. It just feels lifeless. Doing my part to keeping film alive
I started my photography 1979 and still use BW film occasionally. I am very pleased to see the younger generation embracing film photography, keeping it alive in my opinion, allows people to become more creative photographers. Cheers
I think Dan is making a big point: young adults see the importance of once in a livetime events to be documented on a unique medium. But having said that, there's is another important point to make. Film is not only a unique medium, but it's real! Off course everything can be munipulated - analog or digital. But being analog it's less likely to munipulate than digital imagery. Another point - allthough one have to wait for processing the film and get prints vs a digital display - old school media have direct feeling to it. Like manual focus and setting your shutterspeed. DYI self printing digitized film not only becomes cheaper, but better quality aswell.
Great discussion and great takes as well. The only thing I would highly disagree with is the example of vinyl being a short term blip for younger people similar to how fashion trends change. In fact I believe that the resurgence of vinyl is very much like the interest in film by younger people. As he pointed out these digital/screen natives grew up with internet being already a thing and even more so many grew entirely post the CD or even USB-storage medium era. For them listening to music has primarily been through a streaming service. So in that aspect they never experienced what it feels like to actually own or even touch their music collection. Along with that they often listened to singles through automated algorthims instead of "putting on an album". People like that are now finding their way to vinyl and experience what it's like to own, collect and actively develop their taste (through individual purchase decisions). For the first time they own music on an actual physical medium and along with that they get to experience music through a ritual (putting on the record, turning it, seeing individual tracks through grooves etc). Those who experience this for the first time are less likely to drop it, especially once they started to buy a few records slowly building up their proud collection.
Add. point: Disposing used chemicals became more difficult compared to 10yr back. Reason is that the community (disposal stations) are no more used with photo chemicals.
28:01 about this part issue, there are now people out there starting to make / develop / improve new ones for popular models, especially the known less reliable parts: eg. the prism or the rangefinder patch for the Leica M3. They might not be perfect yet but what’s important is that people are investing in this and even when knowing that the demand would not be profitable enough to make it a big business.
Very interesting conversations, thank you :) I have been shooting on film since about 2011, and its great to see new film cameras being released and film stocks coming back : ) Maintaning old film cameras is a challenge especially with the cost and the dwindling skilled employees. How would one become a camera technician? are there courses available?
CR used to run some technician schools here in Kamerastore but for now we have put them on pause. I guess the most straight forward would be to get a mentor or a teacher. Thank you for watching! -Tuomas
@@Kamerastore Interesting! I will have to have to keep searching for a teacher / mentor in my area, greetings from Innsbruck! I loved these conversations, it would be interesting to revisit these same topics annually and see how things are progressing in each category. Look forward to learning more in your next videos- Paul
This was lovely to watch :) Thanks for sharing it! A good book I can recommend that answers a lot similar questions about the resurgence of analog things is "The Revenge of Analog” by David Sax.
Thanks to my grandfather back in the late 70s, he let me use the Super 8 camera, and I got a 110 camera for Christmas. That's when my love of photography started for me. I was only 4 years old then. And I never stopped shooting film all these years later. Many reasons why all my little cousin born in the 2000s ask me if I have photos of them since their parents lost all of the digital photos that were saved on old computers and cell phones. But I still have the 35mm negatives and prints.
It's easy to answer; take for example vinyl records; when the CD came out, everyone simply relagated them to history. Today, purist only swear by analog audio, hence, some new music is getting published on vinyl records while the CDs are dead themselves. Personally, I am old enough to have started with film photography in the 70's with a Canon AE-1; then I moved to DSLR and I have stopped short of mirrorless. I have gathered my AE-1, and I have returned to film. I feel that shooting film helps you to be a better photographer. Since phones have now taken over, shooting film is kind of the new photography. The only drawback I see, unfortunately, is compared to my film days in the 70's, using film has now gotten extremely expensive. First the films themselves, but all the processing and printing. In my town (Houston, Texas), processing a 35mm 36 shots costs 15 dollars.
Wow at $15 per 36 exposure roll I’d look into shipping your film to a good lab that’s more affordable and pay the shipping fees usually being around $8 each way. That way if you just wait to send your film until you have several rolls it will pay off. The local labs here in San Francisco/Berkeley/Oakland which have been serving the community at a very high quality for 40+, 50+ years are around $8-$9 per roll for processing and then I scan with an old digital camera at home. Pretty economic and I’m shooting maybe 60+ rolls/year on average.
@@analogish2046 Thanks for taking the time to reply. As I am returning to film after decades of digital, I am in my testing the photographer and equipment phase. I need to have the results of my night shooting as quickly as possible before I take a trip to Paris to do some street shooting. Once I have confirmed everything works, including me, I will most likely only do processing and then digitize the negatives myself on a scanner.
Film never went away, it was just pushed to the side for digital to become the fashion of our time. Film has been making a more of an impact now because of its aesthetic, the feel of it, the look of it, and the emotions it brings about. Film seems to me to have more depth than digital and you have a tangible, physical product. Then again with digital, you are able to do so many things with editing software you couldn’t do with film, at least back in the day because now you can edit film scans. I love film but shoot digital and I appreciate both.
Re AI: I think AI is being viewed in the wrong way, it has nothing to do with photography. Generative AI is just like drawing. You imagine something and then instead of your hands doing it, a machine does it. Photography will always be an extract of some sort of reality. AI is imagining something. It’s not a given reality. Assistive AI is just a clever tool to help you with things. I think it’s important to keep the things separate. Think about this: did people start saying photorealistic paintings were replacing photography? No. AI is similar. It’s just a different thing that can “look like” photos, but that doesn’t make it a photograph.
Great discussion to begin with. I never stopped shooting film and since about three years shoot film almost exclusively. The experience is hard to beat with digital. As someone sitting in front of a computer screen all day long at the job, I don't want to do that with my photography. Having said that, I'm open to modern developments like SilberSalz35 scanning with 150MP Phase One. Not sure I will ever go back to the darkroom for all of my analog photography. Black and white maybe yes. The beauty is that everybody is free in choosing the process, after shooting with film it's pretty much on everybody's own taste whether to continue in analog or have the film scanned and processed for printing etc.
I am using a Canonet QL17 Giii, a Voigtländer Bessa 6x9 from about the 1930th and a smartphone. Since I like slides, I‘ve also exposed digital smartphone photos to slidefilm (there is a service for that) and it was amazing. I would like to photograph black and white slides too, but I am hesitant to develop it on my own.
Did I miss it? I don't think you mentioned view cameras at all. The ultimate non-digital experience is really sheet film and the tech of a sheet film camera is way lower than a late 20th century 35mm camera. The most exciting development I've seen recently is Intrepid doing shutters.
I 100% agree that what might be the biggest problem with the future of film photography is the lack of photographers maintaining and/or repairing their cameras. I do recognize that there are some very low quality cameras that in most cases aren't worth maintaining/repairing (Holga's, fixed focus cameras, etc.). But there are plenty of very good cameras that would fit most photographer's needs that only need a CLA and/or minor repairs that are being lumped into the, "it's not worth it because you can just buy another one for less than a CLA/repairs" ideology. It's a serious problem, IMO. We probably aren't going to see brand new mechanical 35mm SLRs being made within the next 10 years. Probably not the next 20 years. Every repairable camera that's just thrown away, is dwindling the amount of available serviceable/maintainable cameras. It's also slowly damaging the business of camera repair, therefore less possibility of new repair businesses growing. And in the end, if a photographer was to throw away one camera to buy another for less, that newly purchased camera will sooner or later have the same issues as the tossed camera. So the maintenance/repairs are kind of inevitable and the photographer is not really saving money. For the past 10 years everyone in the film community has been saying, "Keep film alive!". I think for the next 10 years we should all be campaigning, "Keep old film cameras and camera repair alive!"
Nope, the more the trendy ones demand sharper and sharper lenses with no soul or character , film looks even more desirable .... The look, feel and ability to convey emotion you get with film just can't be matched.
There is one weak point - practically all color paper is made by one company - Fuji. With chemistry, there are more suppliers. Fuji seems to be committed to continue the manufacture of their papers in the Netherlands. and the supply issues we have seen with their films made in Japan are not affecting this market. Also, Fuji and Fuji Hunt brand color chemistry for labs is widely available. I personally print mine, but I realize this is a niche market, and the RA papers will need photofinishers to continue using them in order to maintain the business profitable. In Europe, the change to "dry" labs has not been as quick as it was in the US, and many clients still want "real" photographs- often made in shops using a setup of a single C-41 minilab, and a Frontier scanner connected to a RA-4 printer. In Kaunas, Lithuania, we have at least 3 of these places, and a few dry labs too. But in Finland, only one of the bigger chains makes silver prints, with most having switched to inkjet and sublimation printing only.
I really enjoyed your vlog, but I was hoping you could go a bit deeper into a couple of related topics. Given the resurgence of interest in analog photography, do you think major manufacturers like Nikon or Canon might consider re-releasing new analog cameras to meet the growing demand? Also, I’ve tried selling two of my owned Nikon cameras to KameraStore: a Nikon FE with an electronic issue (likely a capacitor problem) and a fully functional Nikon EL, aside from a timer issue. I assumed you might be interested since you are known for quality used products and repair services, but you declined both times. Any insights on why some repair shops or retailers might turn down cameras that, with minor repairs, could still perform well? Thank you for your work, and I’d love to hear your thoughts!”
As a 43 year old and shooting digital since 20 years ago, I'm a recent film convert and I love everything about it. I love shooting with old cameras, rangefinders and SLRs without screens, and I'm always eager to develop and scan the negatives at home. It's an incredible feeling of accomplishment when the photos are well processed and exposed, it's like I'm slowly mastering the craft of photography in the real sense. I also become quite comfortable shooting without a light meter, as long as I'm outdoors. I never had this feeling with digital. I now "hate" immediate results. For all these reasons I'll continue investing on film and I probably never buy a digital camera again (after having several mirrorless cameras I now have a Nikon Df which is the closest thing to a classic SLR, but I mainly use it for film scanning or when I have to shoot indoors).
Superbly interesting video. I just hope that film companies do not price hike so much, trying to get greedy over the resurgence and then price the film so out of peoples pockets, it then drops again. I do hope Fuji keeps there E6 35mm & 120 film going.
Very nice! I saw the documentary on The Impossible Project. Vertigo! I have a Polaroid back for my Mamyia RZ67... 😢 and the last Polaroid pack I put in broke and corroded the inside of the back... so sad.
And what about companies like Silbersalz that uses modern high performance Apollo cinema films scanners for photography that outperform completely old machines like Frontier's Noritsu's ... ?
Currently I'm selling my rather large and pretty high quality film camera collection on eBay. Will they shift like it's 2020? No, buyers are not interested. I've sold before and seen these things fly out my house.
So in essence. We need people trained properly to maintain cameras. Also I think it’s maybe time to include a “dis”claimer with every camera you sell. This is a fine part machinery and it needs maintenance to keep working properly for the 50 years. Send it of for maintenance every XX amount of film or every X years.
Another aspect of “know how” is the real question of where are the designers, engineers, marketeers, and enthusiasts of making NEW film cameras. As was well noted, the number of vintage cameras will continue to diminish every year. If analog photography is going to continue to exist in the future (which I hope it will!), there needs to be NEW cameras. We’ve seen Polaroid and Pentax create new film cameras. But there’s been a lot of push back from so-called advocates of film photography. The base knowledge of creating new film cameras, new films, new chemistry, and more needs to be preserved and nurtured if in fact analog photography is going to survive beyond the ever diminishing vintage analog existence. Great video, terrific discussion - thank you to the panel and its amazing insights!
Thank so much for watching and your insight. All of the factors you mentioned here are definitely something that should be valued from the companies in all sides. -Tuomas
On the commercial processing equipment side, I will admit to the economic, quality and environmental benefits of dry-printing (inkjet) over RA-4. But that does mean that Noritsu has little incentive to actively support the film revival. Noritsu's printing business does not require film shooting, merely photography, film or digital. Noritsu has, as of 2023, shown no interest in reviving their commercial scanner lines or film processing equipment, despite interest in this possibility shown by their non-Japan partners. Colenta might see some opportunities world wide. A tour of Colenta's facilities might be a mutually welcome proposition for a TH-cam channel interested in the future of large scale consumer film developing.
Taitaa olla hieman klikkiotsikon makua tuossa "Will film die" -kysymyksessä. Tottahan se on, ettei sitä porukkaa, joka pyöritti aikoinaan Kodakin ja Fujin bisnestä, saada enää siirtymään kännyköistään takaisin huonolaatuisiin point-and-shooteihin, eivätkä joka kadunkulman minilabrat palaa takaisin. Silti filmillä tulee minun arvioni mukaan tulemaan aina paikkansa yhtenä tapana valokuvata. Tämä koskee myös pimiötyöskentelyä, vaikka olenkin harmikseni huomannut, että moni nuoren polven valokuvauksen hattastaja ei tunne tätä puolta lainkaan. Henkilökohtaisesti pystyn kyllä tekemään värillisetkin vedokseni niin kauan kuin paperia ja kemiaa saa, mutta yhdeksi pullonkaulaksi yleisömarkkinoilla näyttävät muodostuvan minilabrat, joita ei tahdo kohtuuhintaan enää mistään saada, sekä Frontierin ja Noritsun tasoises skannerit. Uusinahan niitä ei ole saanut enää aikoihin, eivätkä nykyajan vehkeet niille pärjää.
Moikka! Otsikko on todellakin klikkiotsikko -ainakin kuvassa. Kysymys itsessään on toki ihan relevantti, vaikka harrastajia onkin tullut viimeisten parin vuoden aikana aivan valtava määrä jolloin ajatus filmivalokuvauksen kuolemisesta saattaa tuntua etäiseltä. Ehkä kysymys onkin prosessin eri osien "kuolemisesta". Esimerkiksi viittaamastasi pimiötyöskentelystä ja kuvien vedostamisesta. Kiitos videon katsomisesta ja kommentistasi! Aidosti mielenkiintoista lukea ihmisten kokemuksia ja ajatuksia. Rauhallista joulun aikaa. -Tuomas
Actually the imminent death of still photo film has been 'predicted' since the 1970s. And even earlier for motion picture film, going back to the advent of video tape in the 1950s even. It seems there is always someone that can't wait for it to die.
The problem with digital is, we take too many digital photos and we cannot print them all. Therefore, digital photos are inevitably doomed to be lost one day due to technology failure. Every photo you take on film, on the other hand, is preserved on a negative. When you find old negatives 50 years on, you realise how important a negative is.
No I think it has a place as a Sustainable choice. Electronics are the most threatened media as Rare Metals become higher value. Storing digital images will become increasingly costly and difficult. Unless a new form of recording arises ?
Films rules over digital It’s real to life. Digital is to course in my opinion. Looking through photographs rather than on a phone is much more pleasing.
My main concern is that these film companies are not r&ding enough for film. Make it cheaper, more will use it. Fix the old cameras instead of making new ones. I rather spend a thousand bucks on a lens instead of 3000 exposures. The only use case, if you want the photos to never touch the interwebs. A few days ago, I shot over 15k digital photos with maybe ~3k keepers. There's a substitute to getting the same photo and alot of people and their fomo will be a death to a stagnant economic system. Everyone forgets, that it takes resources to create physical goods. And it's just not sustainable, Costco used to develop at a fraction of the cost. I enjoy film as well, but I don't think I'll go back unless I win the lifetime lottery
I’ve been shooting medium format film for over 40 years, and darkroom printing. I can’t justify the cost of a digital camera, and all that comes with it, scanner, software subscription, etc. and even if I could I wouldn’t get the same quality of print. Digital has a sterilised look I just don’t like.
Silicon sensors do not scale up easily. Large format digital photography will never be a thing with current technology. As a LF photographer, film is my only option.
Film has been pushed so far out of the mainstream it’s practically dead now. Film costs, limited access to film processing, and the scarcity of workable cameras along with a dwindling supply of parts all signal the end of the road.
I see no scarcity of workable cameras. Last Nikon F6-s and FM10-s were made in 2020.(canon eos 1v 2018) I currently shoot 44 year old Canon A1 which is going strong. 40 years from now i can buy that 2020 F6. Problem on the cost side is with color film. I have doubts about will it remain in the long run but black and white is not too expensive. Film production in general at the moment at least is on the rise. Since film is now only shot as a hobby cost is not that important.
Film photography is no more "fun" than digital photography. The problem with film photography is that it's an expensive chore. If you've tried it, you'll know. For film photography to remain viable its end product, the (film) print, HAS to be look more impressive than its digital counterpart. That's going to be tough.
I've been shooting film for the last decade or so. I tend only to shoot black and white due to the cost of colour. I've accepted It may never be a viable option. I tend to leave the colour to digital. So in that sense I think colour film may be the only loser in the film world.
Film won’t die from less users but maybe from environmental footprint in the production. Ai will also probably be able to finally reproduce the “film look” for real. But from an analog camera perspective I think we will se a sensor that will fit old film cameras soon.
@@jeremyfielding2333 yes of course but if there would be no more film I hope to use my beloved film cameras with add on sensor that could produce similar results as film.
Most of us will get fed up with the analog complications and the digital guys will finally offer presets that make the use of film nonsensical. What I miscalculated was my own craziness. Now I am shooting 120 and 135 but the results do not justify. After five rolls, I am ready to give up. BUT I see old foxes make the most beautiful BW images ever. The major misunderstanding is that the skill would come easy. The guys who have done darkroom for decades make lovely images. It does not mean that you can. My question is: How are we going to display and share our "film" pictures? This is a passing fad.
We need to keep film photography of every kind and know how to develop all kinds of film rather it's photography black and white or color or develop video film for the worlds sake and make money 💰
Does film photography have a future for commercial purposes? Probably not. Does film photography have a future as an art medium? Probably. Digital has gained enormous ground in the commercial visual arts, animation, graphics, photography, cinematography etc. And while we call those commercial ventures "arts", we forget that financial incentive and cost benefit analysis has driven these fields to digital as digital has lowered cost overhead. The question is, in the art for art sake, hobby, and as a medium on its own will film survive? From what we are seeing with Kodak rebuilding their film production capabilities, the sales of new film, and the sales of used film cameras with ever increasing prices as demand rises, anecdotally the evidence is strong that film will continue on. Any judgement that film is superior or inferior to digital is a vapid an argument as whether oil is better than water color. They are both distinct mediums with their own attributes.
What’s old…is “new”. Again. Wash. Repeat. Film IS back…at least locally, because a custom lab in Seattle opened up. At 68, been there, done that….and worse, started to jump back in. Discovered long forgotten film stock from 1999; 35 and 120. Color, BW, etc. The best part about film: the equipment is dirt cheap! Prices have plummeted…as in the Hasselblad gear I picked up recently….it’s too cheap to NOT buy! The worst thing about film: Costs. Film roll, film processing, contact sheet, scanning= $$$. If you can’t do some of these things yourself, like processing, print, scan….you WILL be counting the DOLLARS per shot that it causes. The (film)gear is cheap, the production aftermath isn’t. It’s the opposite of digital…where the expense is upfront, with the aftermath cheap.😮
Film looks better, end of story. I sell framed black and white photographs. Every customer I have buys my work because of how it looks based on its film aesthetic. I hear words like 'old', 'vintage', 'classic', etc. Some think my framed works are drawings. Film, especially B&W looks better than digital. It always will. No argument can win.
Film started to die 1st point and shoot at $100 More than 10 years back As get to review photo big advantage. At 16 megapixel my 2012 camera great pictures Film is expensive. Been digital 9 years
Film photography will survive if not toxic manufacturing and developing process will be invented. Also, silver free, other chemical material based photographic film will be the invention of the future film photography.
I think ITs an idelogical question. I try digital photography some month a years but I come back tó film photography. Advantege of digital...there isnt cost for film developping. Its ok but.... Isnt soul your work, You dont count the pictures You dont work You mind how could use this 36 or 16 exp. You dont have tó Slow down... My personally a like canister shape colors and smell of film. I adore Fuji reversal smell, ITs a fresh film. I think digital ITs a wrong and lazy Line of photography and ITs was őr would be a big revollution ín 2000 But I dont tinik IT was a good idea.....Ai pictures Will be the future with mobiles...ITs not photography
Will die if its not popular among mass market.film is expensive.. Then developing, scanning charges etc... This film resurgence is just a phase which will soon change.. If film companies can survive with decreased price, film photography will survive. Otherwise it will be dead by 2040
I have done photography with film from 1970 to 2006, both as a professional and as a hobby photographer, I do NOT miss film and I hope that film will fade away, so all the chemicals involved also can fade away !!!
Others will hope your digital files will fade away and be lost. I do not miss digital and the very high cost of the cameras and lenses and their short lifetimes and resulting environmental pollution relarive to mechanical second hand film cameras.
Both have advantages and disadvantages. Aside all processing and cost topics discussed so often: Analog needs/waste chemistry incl. rare silver, but can be made/seen/used/stored without any computer involvement Digital on other hand allow 1:1 copies for backup/archive/distribution
@@FrankTitzeArt don't forget high capital cost of modern digital cameras and leneses and relatively short lifetimes, leading to high waste and pollution relative to mechanical film cameras. Furthermore digital storage media itself is environmentally polluting to make and dispose of when no longer useful. The short life cycle for modern digital cameras means the depreciation is high and waste is high. There is no such thing as a "free" digital photo, it has a cost both variable and fixed as well as environmentally.
@jamesprivet: Digital camera cost: Yes and No. My background point of view: I am doing analog (primary) non-commerical photography since mid 80s. I did just digital 2012-2022. Since 2022 I do both: digital and analog . My cameras/lenses overall are in average ~40 yr old (1926 - 2014). - Aside of my phone being being ~6yr old. So I am for sure not a "latest gear addicted". ;-) I would call it / focus on "total lifespan/usage consumption" in terms of cost/resources&waste/energy/... broken down - per raw picture made (raw == not printed) in real or - could be made until EOL of camera/lens. From this/these point of view(s) getting a clear answer is not such easy. BTW: ignoring any kind of real/perceived quality differences between analog and digital for now. Further more, and despite I benefited myself a lot from the still low prices of today's used (esp. medium/large) format cameras/lenses, we should not forget the "real" prices of such in case they would be made new today. Digging into some historic prices of my stuff, I realized that many new analog gear prices are very stable over decades. This applies when taking inflation into account. A very good example is my 1954 Linhof Technika III. Looking on/for prices, I realized that from the 1920s (!) to 2023 the new Technika prices stayed ~ same. Current (2023) Master Technika classic is 7.260 EUR (w/o lens). Same calc works also well with many other brands/gear as long prices lists were available (up to ~ 2005/10) and can be (in my mind) safely extrapolated till today. Or in sum: Just computation (all digital) became cheaper over the years. all mechanical/analog not really if same standards are taken. Sure: Today we see progress in lens design and manufactoring overall, but for most use cases they are not such relevant.
Just my take, but as someone who took part in the vinyl resurgence 20-something years ago, I think the parallels to film photography are actually quite strong (just like digital music is there to fall back on, so is digital photography). That said, I think there is a key difference in that music on vinyl is something that you experience or “consume” and film photography is something that you “do”. It’s a difference between artistic appreciation and artistic expression or creation, and I think that may play into longevity. But the reasons I’m hearing from GenZ’ers about why they’re drawn to analogue photography is a pretty good mirror to why I got into vinyl in my teens, and from the takes I’ve heard the draw has less to do with the results of the photography and more to do with the process or act of it. But there’s 8 billion people out there so there’s bound to be a variety of driving forces! 😄
I believe we’re at the start of a new film revolution. I’ve been digital for years have a lot of equipment but now I’m looking at film cameras.
It's not the film camera that is the problem, it's the film. Expensive and requires toxic chemicals to develop. You'd be surprised at how fast you will get tired of having only 36 exposures, processing film, printing, digitizing (back to digital), etc. I did that in the 70s and 80s and glad I don't have to do that anymore. Each piece of paper costs. Each roll of film costs. Chemicals cost. What digital has done for me is vastly reduce the cost of photography. It's just different.
I recently bought 2 rolls of film, one B&W, the other color. $50 later, I threw it all away. The lab ruined the whole thing. None of the pictures were worthy of saving. You have to find a lab that does excellent work, pay through the nose and end up back where you started, all images digitized.
@bondgabebond4907 I get what you say but I think the thrill of it is that 36 exposures really means 36 chances. This generation of new photographers see everything and more, but doesn't grasp it, but 36 exposures will. I will say chemicals have come a long way, while color isn't perfect, b&w is really safe overall since the presence of local material (coffee, potassium, baking soda), I think the digitalization of the photo is a hybrid of old way and new ways ofthinking, but the cherishing of a moment. I think 2020 did a lot to people, and one way is that lack of cherishment before.
@@bondgabebond4907I think you have been unlucky is all. I’ve been shooting film for 2 years now and I’ve had results I’m so happy about even developing and scanning at home. Developing is like following a recipe. As far as the cost, well I don’t disagree with you..
@@bondgabebond4907 There are so many ways you can reduce costs related to film: buy a 100' roll and fill canisters yourself, develop yourself, and scan/print yourself. The chemicals also haven't been "toxic" for some time. It's great that *you* enjoy digital, but a lot of people don't and prefer the in-depth process of actually creating photographs.
@@bondgabebond4907 People used to have no choice, now people can choose, this is the biggest difference
I just counted today that I have shot 165 rolls of film this year. That's quite something! I am enjoying the process and having fun with it just like I did when I started photography 25 years ago.
That’s impressive. I’ve shot…maybe 15 rolls. Shame on me. -Tuomas
amazing ! i'm curious, which camera and roll did you shoot with the most? i shoot 16 rolls this year, i started analog photography 3 years ago.
Damn that's a lot. What do you shoot? 120 6x9 or 135-36? I shot 'only' 35 rolls 120 this year, and 10 or 15 135
@@Kamerastore I shoot on the weekends. You can check out photos and samples of film stock on my site which has the same name as my handle here.
I really enjoyed this conversation. It was the most interesting I've heard on this topic and enlightened my understanding of why film photography is still so important.
Film photography just hits different - the colours, the grain, the sound of the lever, the mechanical shutter, just magical
Ultimately you can throw a mist filter on any Fuji digital with some grain setting and get pretty darn close.
B+W will probably be available long after color is gone and i will be there for it.
The kindness of these guys are amazing.. As a Finnish supporter I like them even more. I will make my next purchases from you. Greetings from Italy
This is an amazing example of an in-depth conversation covering what’s really happening. The section on 2nd hand cameras is exactly what i wanted to know. Thank you so much for this!
Amazing to hear! Great boost to make more of these interviews. Thank you for watching. :) -Tuomas
It’s a tough call. There’s essentially only 1 company making color film. That’s a huge weak point. On the other hand , as AI generated images are becoming more common place, digital images are becoming less valuable, people trust them less. Film and other vintage mediums are becoming a mark of authenticity so their value appears to increase. The currency of real will go up in value in the age of ai generated everything . 😊
This is the true
Ai ITs a stupid thing.,...I ve come back tó film photography ITs also expensive but ITs real photography isnt ai and digital.
Photography future Will be very interesting,.,
Not only will film photography not die, I'm thinking about investing in refrigeration company shares. 😂
Coming soon: Kamerastore film minifridges?
🤔 Thanks for watching!
- Connor
I think the biggest contribution analog process gives is the actual limits of the medium. Limitation is the genisis of creativity.
There are two things I want to mention here:
The Filmomat team is working on automatizing the camera scanning workflow and I think we’ll see some solutions from them that will really make it much more viable for labs to use cameras in their workflow.
The second thing is that Kodak’s whole color film production is still tied to the movie site of their business. I think they still don’t sell enough still films for them to justify running that big factory on that alone. But the movie site is doing great so I’m not worried about Kodak being able to keep things running.
I have not tested the updated Smart Convert but I have heard and seen some amazing results with it. Tethering, plus Smart converts automated conversion is amazing. -Tuomas
I enjoy every bit of it. Shooting, self developing, scanning, soon also printing. It calms me down. Pure me time. Digital gives me nothing. It just feels lifeless. Doing my part to keeping film alive
This resonates in my quite a bit. I guess the film work flow has almost this detoxifying character. I mean from all this digital life we live. -Tuomas
Such an insightful conversation! Thanj you!!
I started my photography 1979 and still use BW film occasionally. I am very pleased to see the younger generation embracing film photography, keeping it alive in my opinion, allows people to become more creative photographers.
Cheers
/me, looks over at the 100' roll of 16mm I shot of my kids this weekend: "Yep, kids and film".
I think Dan is making a big point: young adults see the importance of once in a livetime events to be documented on a unique medium. But having said that, there's is another important point to make. Film is not only a unique medium, but it's real! Off course everything can be munipulated - analog or digital. But being analog it's less likely to munipulate than digital imagery.
Another point - allthough one have to wait for processing the film and get prints vs a digital display - old school media have direct feeling to it. Like manual focus and setting your shutterspeed.
DYI self printing digitized film not only becomes cheaper, but better quality aswell.
Great discussion and great takes as well. The only thing I would highly disagree with is the example of vinyl being a short term blip for younger people similar to how fashion trends change. In fact I believe that the resurgence of vinyl is very much like the interest in film by younger people. As he pointed out these digital/screen natives grew up with internet being already a thing and even more so many grew entirely post the CD or even USB-storage medium era. For them listening to music has primarily been through a streaming service. So in that aspect they never experienced what it feels like to actually own or even touch their music collection. Along with that they often listened to singles through automated algorthims instead of "putting on an album". People like that are now finding their way to vinyl and experience what it's like to own, collect and actively develop their taste (through individual purchase decisions). For the first time they own music on an actual physical medium and along with that they get to experience music through a ritual (putting on the record, turning it, seeing individual tracks through grooves etc). Those who experience this for the first time are less likely to drop it, especially once they started to buy a few records slowly building up their proud collection.
Add. point: Disposing used chemicals became more difficult compared to 10yr back. Reason is that the community (disposal stations) are no more used with photo chemicals.
28:01 about this part issue, there are now people out there starting to make / develop / improve new ones for popular models, especially the known less reliable parts: eg. the prism or the rangefinder patch for the Leica M3. They might not be perfect yet but what’s important is that people are investing in this and even when knowing that the demand would not be profitable enough to make it a big business.
Very interesting conversations, thank you :) I have been shooting on film since about 2011, and its great to see new film cameras being released and film stocks coming back : )
Maintaning old film cameras is a challenge especially with the cost and the dwindling skilled employees. How would one become a camera technician? are there courses available?
CR used to run some technician schools here in Kamerastore but for now we have put them on pause. I guess the most straight forward would be to get a mentor or a teacher. Thank you for watching! -Tuomas
@@Kamerastore Interesting! I will have to have to keep searching for a teacher / mentor in my area, greetings from Innsbruck! I loved these conversations, it would be interesting to revisit these same topics annually and see how things are progressing in each category. Look forward to learning more in your next videos- Paul
This was lovely to watch :) Thanks for sharing it! A good book I can recommend that answers a lot similar questions about the resurgence of analog things is "The Revenge of Analog” by David Sax.
me: tearing the curtain backplate of a junk minolta 35 model ii without knowing what i'm doing, while listening to this
Thanks to my grandfather back in the late 70s, he let me use the Super 8 camera, and I got a 110 camera for Christmas. That's when my love of photography started for me. I was only 4 years old then. And I never stopped shooting film all these years later.
Many reasons why all my little cousin born in the 2000s ask me if I have photos of them since their parents lost all of the digital photos that were saved on old computers and cell phones. But I still have the 35mm negatives and prints.
It's easy to answer; take for example vinyl records; when the CD came out, everyone simply relagated them to history. Today, purist only swear by analog audio, hence, some new music is getting published on vinyl records while the CDs are dead themselves.
Personally, I am old enough to have started with film photography in the 70's with a Canon AE-1; then I moved to DSLR and I have stopped short of mirrorless. I have gathered my AE-1, and I have returned to film.
I feel that shooting film helps you to be a better photographer. Since phones have now taken over, shooting film is kind of the new photography.
The only drawback I see, unfortunately, is compared to my film days in the 70's, using film has now gotten extremely expensive. First the films themselves, but all the processing and printing. In my town (Houston, Texas), processing a 35mm 36 shots costs 15 dollars.
Wow at $15 per 36 exposure roll I’d look into shipping your film to a good lab that’s more affordable and pay the shipping fees usually being around $8 each way. That way if you just wait to send your film until you have several rolls it will pay off. The local labs here in San Francisco/Berkeley/Oakland which have been serving the community at a very high quality for 40+, 50+ years are around $8-$9 per roll for processing and then I scan with an old digital camera at home. Pretty economic and I’m shooting maybe 60+ rolls/year on average.
@@analogish2046 Thanks for taking the time to reply. As I am returning to film after decades of digital, I am in my testing the photographer and equipment phase. I need to have the results of my night shooting as quickly as possible before I take a trip to Paris to do some street shooting. Once I have confirmed everything works, including me, I will most likely only do processing and then digitize the negatives myself on a scanner.
@@analogish2046 I dropped my film this morning; $10.83 just for the processing. In fact, the total cost will be around $30; pickup next Monday.
This was a great conversation. Very insightful.
Film never went away, it was just pushed to the side for digital to become the fashion of our time. Film has been making a more of an impact now because of its aesthetic, the feel of it, the look of it, and the emotions it brings about. Film seems to me to have more depth than digital and you have a tangible, physical product. Then again with digital, you are able to do so many things with editing software you couldn’t do with film, at least back in the day because now you can edit film scans. I love film but shoot digital and I appreciate both.
Re AI: I think AI is being viewed in the wrong way, it has nothing to do with photography. Generative AI is just like drawing. You imagine something and then instead of your hands doing it, a machine does it. Photography will always be an extract of some sort of reality. AI is imagining something. It’s not a given reality. Assistive AI is just a clever tool to help you with things. I think it’s important to keep the things separate. Think about this: did people start saying photorealistic paintings were replacing photography? No. AI is similar. It’s just a different thing that can “look like” photos, but that doesn’t make it a photograph.
Millions of people are already seeing AI pictures and thinking them to be real, it absolutely affects photography.
@@jeremyfielding2333 It does affect photography, absolutely! But it’s not photography.
Kind of like the ball point pin. 😎
Film photography will never die 🥰
While we live😊
Keep up the good work guys!
Great discussion to begin with. I never stopped shooting film and since about three years shoot film almost exclusively. The experience is hard to beat with digital. As someone sitting in front of a computer screen all day long at the job, I don't want to do that with my photography. Having said that, I'm open to modern developments like SilberSalz35 scanning with 150MP Phase One. Not sure I will ever go back to the darkroom for all of my analog photography. Black and white maybe yes. The beauty is that everybody is free in choosing the process, after shooting with film it's pretty much on everybody's own taste whether to continue in analog or have the film scanned and processed for printing etc.
Thank you for watching! A lot of good points and thoughts here. -Tuomas
I am using a Canonet QL17 Giii, a Voigtländer Bessa 6x9 from about the 1930th and a smartphone.
Since I like slides, I‘ve also exposed digital smartphone photos to slidefilm (there is a service for that) and it was amazing.
I would like to photograph black and white slides too, but I am hesitant to develop it on my own.
Did I miss it? I don't think you mentioned view cameras at all. The ultimate non-digital experience is really sheet film and the tech of a sheet film camera is way lower than a late 20th century 35mm camera. The most exciting development I've seen recently is Intrepid doing shutters.
Cave paintings anyone? 😎
I 100% agree that what might be the biggest problem with the future of film photography is the lack of photographers maintaining and/or repairing their cameras. I do recognize that there are some very low quality cameras that in most cases aren't worth maintaining/repairing (Holga's, fixed focus cameras, etc.). But there are plenty of very good cameras that would fit most photographer's needs that only need a CLA and/or minor repairs that are being lumped into the, "it's not worth it because you can just buy another one for less than a CLA/repairs" ideology. It's a serious problem, IMO. We probably aren't going to see brand new mechanical 35mm SLRs being made within the next 10 years. Probably not the next 20 years. Every repairable camera that's just thrown away, is dwindling the amount of available serviceable/maintainable cameras. It's also slowly damaging the business of camera repair, therefore less possibility of new repair businesses growing. And in the end, if a photographer was to throw away one camera to buy another for less, that newly purchased camera will sooner or later have the same issues as the tossed camera. So the maintenance/repairs are kind of inevitable and the photographer is not really saving money.
For the past 10 years everyone in the film community has been saying, "Keep film alive!". I think for the next 10 years we should all be campaigning, "Keep old film cameras and camera repair alive!"
Nope, the more the trendy ones demand sharper and sharper lenses with no soul or character , film looks even more desirable .... The look, feel and ability to convey emotion you get with film just can't be matched.
There is one weak point - practically all color paper is made by one company - Fuji. With chemistry, there are more suppliers. Fuji seems to be committed to continue the manufacture of their papers in the Netherlands. and the supply issues we have seen with their films made in Japan are not affecting this market. Also, Fuji and Fuji Hunt brand color chemistry for labs is widely available. I personally print mine, but I realize this is a niche market, and the RA papers will need photofinishers to continue using them in order to maintain the business profitable. In Europe, the change to "dry" labs has not been as quick as it was in the US, and many clients still want "real" photographs- often made in shops using a setup of a single C-41 minilab, and a Frontier scanner connected to a RA-4 printer. In Kaunas, Lithuania, we have at least 3 of these places, and a few dry labs too. But in Finland, only one of the bigger chains makes silver prints, with most having switched to inkjet and sublimation printing only.
Now I wish there were more reasonable priced development labs in local areas .
I really enjoyed your vlog, but I was hoping you could go a bit deeper into a couple of related topics. Given the resurgence of interest in analog photography, do you think major manufacturers like Nikon or Canon might consider re-releasing new analog cameras to meet the growing demand?
Also, I’ve tried selling two of my owned Nikon cameras to KameraStore: a Nikon FE with an electronic issue (likely a capacitor problem) and a fully functional Nikon EL, aside from a timer issue. I assumed you might be interested since you are known for quality used products and repair services, but you declined both times. Any insights on why some repair shops or retailers might turn down cameras that, with minor repairs, could still perform well?
Thank you for your work, and I’d love to hear your thoughts!”
As a 43 year old and shooting digital since 20 years ago, I'm a recent film convert and I love everything about it. I love shooting with old cameras, rangefinders and SLRs without screens, and I'm always eager to develop and scan the negatives at home. It's an incredible feeling of accomplishment when the photos are well processed and exposed, it's like I'm slowly mastering the craft of photography in the real sense. I also become quite comfortable shooting without a light meter, as long as I'm outdoors. I never had this feeling with digital. I now "hate" immediate results. For all these reasons I'll continue investing on film and I probably never buy a digital camera again (after having several mirrorless cameras I now have a Nikon Df which is the closest thing to a classic SLR, but I mainly use it for film scanning or when I have to shoot indoors).
Superbly interesting video. I just hope that film companies do not price hike so much, trying to get greedy over the resurgence and then price the film so out of peoples pockets, it then drops again. I do hope Fuji keeps there E6 35mm & 120 film going.
Good chat 🍻
Very nice! I saw the documentary on The Impossible Project. Vertigo! I have a Polaroid back for my Mamyia RZ67... 😢 and the last Polaroid pack I put in broke and corroded the inside of the back... so sad.
And what about companies like Silbersalz that uses modern high performance Apollo cinema films scanners for photography that outperform completely old machines like Frontier's Noritsu's ... ?
Currently I'm selling my rather large and pretty high quality film camera collection on eBay. Will they shift like it's 2020? No, buyers are not interested. I've sold before and seen these things fly out my house.
So in essence. We need people trained properly to maintain cameras.
Also I think it’s maybe time to include a “dis”claimer with every camera you sell.
This is a fine part machinery and it needs maintenance to keep working properly for the 50 years.
Send it of for maintenance every XX amount of film or every X years.
I’m still looking for years a Zeiss ikonflex 6x6 maybe you guys have one
Cost of raw materials and the learning of the craft of analogue photography will determine it’s future .
Image is everything.😎
I love my Pentax (35mm) Rolleiflex (120mm) and Wista (4x5 inches)
Another aspect of “know how” is the real question of where are the designers, engineers, marketeers, and enthusiasts of making NEW film cameras.
As was well noted, the number of vintage cameras will continue to diminish every year.
If analog photography is going to continue to exist in the future (which I hope it will!), there needs to be NEW cameras. We’ve seen Polaroid and Pentax create new film cameras. But there’s been a lot of push back from so-called advocates of film photography.
The base knowledge of creating new film cameras, new films, new chemistry, and more needs to be preserved and nurtured if in fact analog photography is going to survive beyond the ever diminishing vintage analog existence.
Great video, terrific discussion - thank you to the panel and its amazing insights!
Thank so much for watching and your insight. All of the factors you mentioned here are definitely something that should be valued from the companies in all sides. -Tuomas
In South Africa we have a company who produces C41 and sells it quite cheap. Fixer and bleach are separate, so 4 steps to dev.
Can you name those companies that are making dip and dunk machines nowadays?? Thank you
Nice, interesting discussion !
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for watching. :) -Tuomas
I've had a lot of fun with my film cameras. I guess it's great for kids who can afford it, unlike me. I'm all digital now.
On the commercial processing equipment side, I will admit to the economic, quality and environmental benefits of dry-printing (inkjet) over RA-4. But that does mean that Noritsu has little incentive to actively support the film revival. Noritsu's printing business does not require film shooting, merely photography, film or digital. Noritsu has, as of 2023, shown no interest in reviving their commercial scanner lines or film processing equipment, despite interest in this possibility shown by their non-Japan partners. Colenta might see some opportunities world wide. A tour of Colenta's facilities might be a mutually welcome proposition for a TH-cam channel interested in the future of large scale consumer film developing.
Taitaa olla hieman klikkiotsikon makua tuossa "Will film die" -kysymyksessä. Tottahan se on, ettei sitä porukkaa, joka pyöritti aikoinaan Kodakin ja Fujin bisnestä, saada enää siirtymään kännyköistään takaisin huonolaatuisiin point-and-shooteihin, eivätkä joka kadunkulman minilabrat palaa takaisin. Silti filmillä tulee minun arvioni mukaan tulemaan aina paikkansa yhtenä tapana valokuvata. Tämä koskee myös pimiötyöskentelyä, vaikka olenkin harmikseni huomannut, että moni nuoren polven valokuvauksen hattastaja ei tunne tätä puolta lainkaan. Henkilökohtaisesti pystyn kyllä tekemään värillisetkin vedokseni niin kauan kuin paperia ja kemiaa saa, mutta yhdeksi pullonkaulaksi yleisömarkkinoilla näyttävät muodostuvan minilabrat, joita ei tahdo kohtuuhintaan enää mistään saada, sekä Frontierin ja Noritsun tasoises skannerit. Uusinahan niitä ei ole saanut enää aikoihin, eivätkä nykyajan vehkeet niille pärjää.
Moikka! Otsikko on todellakin klikkiotsikko -ainakin kuvassa. Kysymys itsessään on toki ihan relevantti, vaikka harrastajia onkin tullut viimeisten parin vuoden aikana aivan valtava määrä jolloin ajatus filmivalokuvauksen kuolemisesta saattaa tuntua etäiseltä. Ehkä kysymys onkin prosessin eri osien "kuolemisesta". Esimerkiksi viittaamastasi pimiötyöskentelystä ja kuvien vedostamisesta.
Kiitos videon katsomisesta ja kommentistasi! Aidosti mielenkiintoista lukea ihmisten kokemuksia ja ajatuksia.
Rauhallista joulun aikaa.
-Tuomas
Very interesting conversation
I will use the films until I die
Actually the imminent death of still photo film has been 'predicted' since the 1970s. And even earlier for motion picture film, going back to the advent of video tape in the 1950s even. It seems there is always someone that can't wait for it to die.
Might part of human nature. Happy to see that film photography looks to be doing well regardless. -Tuomas
The problem with digital is, we take too many digital photos and we cannot print them all. Therefore, digital photos are inevitably doomed to be lost one day due to technology failure. Every photo you take on film, on the other hand, is preserved on a negative. When you find old negatives 50 years on, you realise how important a negative is.
If there are users
There will be buyers, there will be sellers, and there will be companies that make films
Film is unique and amazing
It definitely is. Might be the reason why many in the office only shoot film. -Tuomas
No I think it has a place as a Sustainable choice.
Electronics are the most threatened media as Rare Metals become higher value. Storing digital images will become increasingly costly and difficult.
Unless a new form of recording arises ?
Films rules over digital
It’s real to life. Digital is to course in my opinion.
Looking through photographs rather than on a phone is much more pleasing.
As long as we use film it will not die.
Nico what happened to the mustache???
yes. as long as many provide film processing and scan service. yes it is
Make em cheap they won't die
film shooting is expensive. I stopped shooting recently for this reason.
Vinyl sells more than CD and has the biggest sales in 30 years.
My main concern is that these film companies are not r&ding enough for film. Make it cheaper, more will use it. Fix the old cameras instead of making new ones. I rather spend a thousand bucks on a lens instead of 3000 exposures. The only use case, if you want the photos to never touch the interwebs. A few days ago, I shot over 15k digital photos with maybe ~3k keepers. There's a substitute to getting the same photo and alot of people and their fomo will be a death to a stagnant economic system. Everyone forgets, that it takes resources to create physical goods. And it's just not sustainable, Costco used to develop at a fraction of the cost. I enjoy film as well, but I don't think I'll go back unless I win the lifetime lottery
I’ve been shooting medium format film for over 40 years, and darkroom printing. I can’t justify the cost of a digital camera, and all that comes with it, scanner, software subscription, etc. and even if I could I wouldn’t get the same quality of print. Digital has a sterilised look I just don’t like.
Silicon sensors do not scale up easily. Large format digital photography will never be a thing with current technology. As a LF photographer, film is my only option.
Film has been pushed so far out of the mainstream it’s practically dead now. Film costs, limited access to film processing, and the scarcity of workable cameras along with a dwindling supply of parts all signal the end of the road.
I see no scarcity of workable cameras. Last Nikon F6-s and FM10-s were made in 2020.(canon eos 1v 2018) I currently shoot 44 year old Canon A1 which is going strong. 40 years from now i can buy that 2020 F6. Problem on the cost side is with color film. I have doubts about will it remain in the long run but black and white is not too expensive. Film production in general at the moment at least is on the rise. Since film is now only shot as a hobby cost is not that important.
Film photography is no more "fun" than digital photography. The problem with film photography is that it's an expensive chore. If you've tried it, you'll know. For film photography to remain viable its end product, the (film) print, HAS to be look more impressive than its digital counterpart. That's going to be tough.
I've been shooting film for the last decade or so. I tend only to shoot black and white due to the cost of colour. I've accepted It may never be a viable option. I tend to leave the colour to digital. So in that sense I think colour film may be the only loser in the film world.
Film won’t die from less users but maybe from environmental footprint in the production. Ai will also probably be able to finally reproduce the “film look” for real.
But from an analog camera perspective I think we will se a sensor that will fit old film cameras soon.
It's not really about achieving the 'film look'. It's the tactile physical process.
@@jeremyfielding2333exactly!
@@jeremyfielding2333 yes of course but if there would be no more film I hope to use my beloved film cameras with add on sensor that could produce similar results as film.
Most of us will get fed up with the analog complications and the digital guys will finally offer presets that make the use of film nonsensical.
What I miscalculated was my own craziness. Now I am shooting 120 and 135 but the results do not justify.
After five rolls, I am ready to give up.
BUT I see old foxes make the most beautiful BW images ever. The major misunderstanding is that the skill would come easy.
The guys who have done darkroom for decades make lovely images. It does not mean that you can.
My question is: How are we going to display and share our "film" pictures?
This is a passing fad.
We need to keep film photography of every kind and know how to develop all kinds of film rather it's photography black and white or color or develop video film for the worlds sake and make money 💰
How do you think 😮 theater's gets the movies today? Ha! Ha!
If the prices keep going up and up, I hope it dies, so someday the prices return to normal...
Does film photography have a future for commercial purposes? Probably not. Does film photography have a future as an art medium? Probably. Digital has gained enormous ground in the commercial visual arts, animation, graphics, photography, cinematography etc. And while we call those commercial ventures "arts", we forget that financial incentive and cost benefit analysis has driven these fields to digital as digital has lowered cost overhead. The question is, in the art for art sake, hobby, and as a medium on its own will film survive? From what we are seeing with Kodak rebuilding their film production capabilities, the sales of new film, and the sales of used film cameras with ever increasing prices as demand rises, anecdotally the evidence is strong that film will continue on. Any judgement that film is superior or inferior to digital is a vapid an argument as whether oil is better than water color. They are both distinct mediums with their own attributes.
I just sold my Hasselblad that I’ve had for about 8 years. I don’t see myself shooting film my Leica M camera is too good.
What’s old…is “new”. Again. Wash. Repeat. Film IS back…at least locally, because a custom lab in Seattle opened up. At 68, been there, done that….and worse, started to jump back in.
Discovered long forgotten film stock from 1999; 35 and 120. Color, BW, etc. The best part about film: the equipment is dirt cheap! Prices have plummeted…as in the Hasselblad gear I picked up recently….it’s too cheap to NOT buy!
The worst thing about film: Costs. Film roll, film processing, contact sheet, scanning= $$$. If you can’t do some of these things yourself, like processing, print, scan….you WILL be counting the DOLLARS per shot that it causes.
The (film)gear is cheap, the production aftermath isn’t. It’s the opposite of digital…where the expense is upfront, with the aftermath cheap.😮
But how ever today everyone wonders how film is developed now that everyone gots smartphones or digital cameras
Film looks better, end of story. I sell framed black and white photographs. Every customer I have buys my work because of how it looks based on its film aesthetic. I hear words like 'old', 'vintage', 'classic', etc. Some think my framed works are drawings. Film, especially B&W looks better than digital. It always will. No argument can win.
Film started to die 1st point and shoot at $100
More than 10 years back
As get to review photo big advantage. At 16 megapixel my 2012 camera great pictures
Film is expensive. Been digital 9 years
Think 10 year out. Yes a few shoot film. But like other camera stuff mostly dead. Cell phone digital think 90% of photography
Film photography will survive if not toxic manufacturing and developing process will be invented. Also, silver free, other chemical material based photographic film will be the invention of the future film photography.
whats the point of havng film if nobody can afford to buy it
I think ITs an idelogical question.
I try digital photography some month a years but I come back tó film photography.
Advantege of digital...there isnt cost for film developping. Its ok but....
Isnt soul your work, You dont count the pictures You dont work You mind how could use this 36 or 16 exp.
You dont have tó Slow down...
My personally a like canister shape colors and smell of film.
I adore Fuji reversal smell, ITs a fresh film.
I think digital ITs a wrong and lazy Line of photography and ITs was őr would be a big revollution ín 2000
But I dont tinik IT was a good idea.....Ai pictures Will be the future with mobiles...ITs not photography
I think film its a classic stye of photography it has soul...ai pictures will be perfection with worhless
it is a dead cat bounce heading to zombie mode
Will die if its not popular among mass market.film is expensive.. Then developing, scanning charges etc... This film resurgence is just a phase which will soon change.. If film companies can survive with decreased price, film photography will survive. Otherwise it will be dead by 2040
FUCK NO IT WONT!
No.
What is attractive about Vinyl records and film photography is the cost and the inconvenience.
I have done photography with film from 1970 to 2006, both as a professional and as a hobby photographer, I do NOT miss film and I hope that film will fade away, so all the chemicals involved also can fade away !!!
Others will hope your digital files will fade away and be lost. I do not miss digital and the very high cost of the cameras and lenses and their short lifetimes and resulting environmental pollution relarive to mechanical second hand film cameras.
Both have advantages and disadvantages.
Aside all processing and cost topics discussed so often:
Analog needs/waste chemistry incl. rare silver, but can be made/seen/used/stored without any computer involvement
Digital on other hand allow 1:1 copies for backup/archive/distribution
@@FrankTitzeArt don't forget high capital cost of modern digital cameras and leneses and relatively short lifetimes, leading to high waste and pollution relative to mechanical film cameras. Furthermore digital storage media itself is environmentally polluting to make and dispose of when no longer useful. The short life cycle for modern digital cameras means the depreciation is high and waste is high. There is no such thing as a "free" digital photo, it has a cost both variable and fixed as well as environmentally.
@jamesprivet: Digital camera cost: Yes and No.
My background point of view: I am doing analog (primary) non-commerical photography since mid 80s. I did just digital 2012-2022. Since 2022 I do both: digital and analog . My cameras/lenses overall are in average ~40 yr old (1926 - 2014). - Aside of my phone being being ~6yr old. So I am for sure not a "latest gear addicted". ;-)
I would call it / focus on "total lifespan/usage consumption" in terms of cost/resources&waste/energy/... broken down
- per raw picture made (raw == not printed) in real or
- could be made until EOL of camera/lens.
From this/these point of view(s) getting a clear answer is not such easy. BTW: ignoring any kind of real/perceived quality differences between analog and digital for now.
Further more, and despite I benefited myself a lot from the still low prices of today's used (esp. medium/large) format cameras/lenses, we should not forget the "real" prices of such in case they would be made new today.
Digging into some historic prices of my stuff, I realized that many new analog gear prices are very stable over decades. This applies when taking inflation into account. A very good example is my 1954 Linhof Technika III. Looking on/for prices, I realized that from the 1920s (!) to 2023 the new Technika prices stayed ~ same. Current (2023) Master Technika classic is 7.260 EUR (w/o lens).
Same calc works also well with many other brands/gear as long prices lists were available (up to ~ 2005/10) and can be (in my mind) safely extrapolated till today.
Or in sum: Just computation (all digital) became cheaper over the years. all mechanical/analog not really if same standards are taken.
Sure: Today we see progress in lens design and manufactoring overall, but for most use cases they are not such relevant.
Save you the time: no.
Film photography was pronounced dead 20 years ago. Strange that this obsolete stuff is still around.