I am automaticaly suspicious of any new station whose name ends in 'Parkway'. The old GWR and LSWR often had station names ending in 'Road' ie Clarbiston Road - which means, as does 'Parkway' that the station is some distance from the place it purports to serve......
Funny you should reference Alan Partridge, as Watford Met featured in a few scenes of another Coogan creation 'Saxondale'. Infact most of it was filmed in Watford.
@@johndavies1090 "Parkway" is more honest than "Road" because at least "Parkway" gives you the instant feeling that you'll need to drive there and try to find a space less than a mile's hike across some humongous car park which used to be about three farms back in the day.
@@sapphireseptember It's Oxford Parkway because it's intended much more as a Park & Ride station for motorists from the wider area going to Oxford or London than as a local station for local people in Kidlington. Sometimes there is method to their madness!
Used by generations of schoolboys travelling from the leafy well to do suburbs of Northwood and Moor Park, to the Grammar school next to to station. Within memory the platforms had the original cast iron fancy lamp posts along the platform which were much prettier than the functionally identical modern ones. The Croxley rail link would have required the building of a new fourth bridge over the road at the roundabout and the ironic demolition of the Pub called the Three Bridges, now an anonymous Harvester.
Central heating (3:15) was largely unknown in 1925; it's easy to forget that things we take for granted today have not been around for ever. My parents' house was built in 1927 and was coal-fired, like virtually all others at the time. In the 1960s we used to stay with friends in London who had had the new-fangled central heating installed; we used to feel it was too warm and stuffy. My dad put electric fires in the fireplaces (it was very useful to be able to remove them and re-use the grate during 1970s strikes and power cuts) but it was not till he died in 2007 and the house was sold that the new owners retrofitted central heating. Coal-fired boilers weren't great for CH either; up to the 1960s coal and oil were cheap, gas and electricity was expensive. Gas became the fuel of choice when North Sea gas was discovered. So the Met were not behind the times in putting coal fires in Watford and the staff would not have blinked an eyelid then or for many years afterwards.
Hercule Poirot, in many of the earlier novels and stories, goes into rhapsodies about central heating and doesn’t understand why it’s relatively uncommon in England. The first Poirot novel was written by Agatha Christie in 1916 and published in the U. S. in 1920 and the U. K. in 1921, and so I’m guessing 1925-1940, maybe later, for Poirot doing that. Seems likely enough.
Exactly. Coal fires were the norm in station waiting rooms until the 1950s and 60s. Railway staff who had accomodation in the station would also have heated their homes with open fires. Gas fired central heating only became common when natural gas came ashore from the North Sea. Of course Americans had central heating generations earlier, nobody wanted to carry sacks of coal up high rise Manhattan flats.
@@thomasburke2683 indeed, although that was steam district heating provided from a large central boiler some miles away, rather than central heating per building or per apartment as we think of it today. NYC still has the largest steam network today, and steam is still a little cheaper than gas from ConEd, though more and more buildings are changing to their own managed heating systems and disconnecting from the steam.
You do have to wonder what Orwell, who once wrote of the money tainted atmosphere of England, would think of his somehow inspiring Tim Martin's cheap grog shop empire. I can't imagine he'd be a fan of Weatherspoons.
@@dickmove9517 Orwell wrote of hotel rooms in Paris with mold covered walls and lines of insects climbing up them. And of London 'Spikes' where you'd sleep draped across a rope lined up with other down and outs! I suspect he'd feel right at home in a Wetherspoons!
I suspect Watford's station being where it is has helped make houses within walking distance of it more expensive. There are some large houses on the other side of Cassiobury park which are just a 5 or so minute walk across the park from the station which must be a pleasant way to start your commute.
Its obviously 2022 because of its better syllable grouping and rhythm than 2022. 2-2-1 rather than 1-2-1-1. That saves time during the course of a week.
That Wetherspoon was the 100th Wetherspoon. I lived in Watford when it opened, and they threw an opening event which I went to. This was in about 1994, when a Wetherspoon was a welcome addition to the local ale scene. Then I went back to drinking in Blake’s…
Has it always been 'The Moon Under Water' since it has been opened? I ask as there used to be one in Twickenham with the same style of writing on the frontage which has now been renamed and wondered if this has now just moved or is just a common name.
@@andyaccount I think most 'Spoons back then were named after what the building was previously used for. The first one in Derby is in an 18th century bank, so is named 'The Standing Order'. Could 'The Moon Under Water' be the standard name when the building hasn't got such a distinctive history?
l used to work at Watford Met as a Booking Clerk ( those were the days. from start to end of traffic) There existed a rumour that the tunnels under Cassiobury Park were actually started and if the concrete walls at the platform ends were pierced you would come across them!
Hmmm...I would have thought that if tunnels were even partially excavated the local authorities may have sought to use them as public air-raid shelters during World War 2. Doesn't always follow though...cost and all that....
02:50 _This street is called Metropolitan Station Approach._ No, that's nearby and is not so picturesque. This is Cassiobury Park Avenue. (Anyway, nice of you to look in on Watford.) :)
A tale from the Island! My old home ground,Locust Valley,has a similar write up,to Watford! Seems,when the Long Island,made it past Glen Head,and later Glen Cove,it came to the heights[really a ridge line],and built a terminal,complete with turntable and engine house! This was then called- Locust Valley(which actually was on a hill),of course this was during the 1870's,and the branch was run as a shuttle service,with a Locust Valley car,originating out of Brooklyn! Oh,yes,the original village of LV,was down in the hollow,and it was removed to the top of the hill,where now,everything resides! You have to know where to look,to find the history! Then came Teddy Roosevelt,and that's for another time! Thank you,Jago,for another,very interesting video!! I apologize for my overdone verbiage,but I think history really should be more open,and far better known,London,has so much,and most people walk by it,with barely a second glance!! Thanks again 😊!
Cassobury park has a small children's railway. It would be nice to see a part of the video covering that. Although this was a great and that might of confused things
You just made my day Jago. I’ve been waiting ages for you get around to doing the Met line and the first station you do is Watford, I grew up using that station. Thank you.
The Croxley Link is absolutely worth a separate video, it might be quite a long one with all the false starts over the years. As another commenter pointed out, it was first proposed in the late 1940s. In a logical world there would have been an end-on connection to the LMS Croxley Green branch from the word go, but the LNER and LMS were rivals, so it got a separate line instead. Were Watford Council wrong to block the extension? Even if it had happened, it would still have dead-ended in the middle of town with no connection from the Northwood/Harrow area to Watford Junction without a walk. From 1948, with a single nationalised railway, the Croxley Link made huge sense, but just never happened despite repeated proposals. Periodically, massive documents are produced by the councils and TfL with lots of alternatives for the route, but all the useful ones are ruled out as too expensive. My personal favourite would be light rail or tram Rickmansworth-Croxley-Croxley Green-Watford High Street- Watford Junction (flyover)-St Albans Abbey-St Albans City, possibly via town centre. Cheaper than heavy rail, but apparently a problem is that it would be hard to make the trains and signalling compatible with the Underground in the Croxley area as well as National Rail round Watford. As we know from the Elizabeth line, getting different sets of software to talk to each other can be much harder than it looks. Similar problems seem to have been claimed with the Met extension to Watford Junction, accounting for much of the escalation in expected cost (£65M 2005, £360M 2018; gold-plated rails?).
Possibly its the signalling but I think the Viaduct needed wasnt properly costed in the early days. The project for Barking Riverside involving a viaduct of similar distance is coming in at £327M
@@simoncolenutt5228 Wow, that's pretty incredible. I wonder how that compares with the cost of the whole London to Greenwich or Blackwall viaducts adjusted to modern times - all hand laid brick. I have a nasty feeling that the Chinese would deliver it in half the time and a tenth of the cost, judging from their recent high speed rail lines.
I do remember in the early 2010's there being a start to this scheme. Vegatation was cleared from the disused Croxley Green branch but then... nothing. The funding seems to stall at TfL not being prepared to pay for works outside London and Herts County Council not being happy paying for a London Underground line. The last I heard, the initial planning permission lapsed in 2015 and no doubt the vegatation has all grown back!
@@jimtuite3451 The relevant Wikipedia page contains the following somewhat horrifying statement; "A 2017 Freedom of Information request revealed that £130 million of the £284 million funding had already been spent, but the only works that had actually been delivered were some utility diversions and route clearance." There are supporting references, so it is presumably accurate. They don't seem to have got a lot for their money. In fact the mind boggles at what they could have actually spent it on.
@@iankemp1131 Good grief. If that happened anywhere else we'd be dismissing it as coruption. Only in Britain can we squander sums of money like that with receipts to back it up!
I believe that an objector to the Met. buying up land towards Watford was Hubert von Herkomer who had his studio and an art school at Bushey, nearby. He said that the rural peace of his property and therefore his business would be greatly affected.
My old house in Bushey was built on the site of Herkomers old estate (it was literally on Herkomer Road) and we had the last remaining apple tree from his orchard in our back garden . His giant house was called “Lululaund” , it had a balcony inside and when he got tanked up at the parties he used to throw , he’d ride his horse up the stairs and go charging across the balconey , bit of a madman !
Great to see a video about good ol Watford! - I wonder if you could make a video about the "Bushey Arches" on the Watford DC line - such an immense construction just to bring trains to the centre of town (and serving effectively only Watford High Street station) is fascinating
Getting "Sidelined"...nah, always enjoy you branching out. I'm guessing had the "proper" terminus been built they would have changed the name of the current station to Cassiobury park. OR maybe if the park didnt exist at that point, they could have gone with "Watford Gade" - after the nearby river.
Having used the Watford Met station a few times, I would suggest that it's location isn't that bad. After all, not everyone is going to the centre of Watford (Watford High Street) so it works as a Watford West type of station, akin to the vast number of Acton or Finchley stations.
Yep, as a commuter station it's location is actually very good, and hundreds of schoolkids use it everyday too. Just a bit annoying for those people who don't realise that it's not in the centre of town.
The "Cassiobury park" had a silent 'o', I lived just south of Watford for 40 years and have never heard it pronounced that way. Used to get off at Watford station and walk up to Cassionury park to play in the river during the summer holidays. A tin of Heinz baked beans and a pen knife was all that was needed for the day out. Play in river in underpants and dry off in the sun and cold beans for lunch what more did you need. (Late 1960's) The kids of today don't know what fun is without a keyboard.
I'm from ten years later mate and parents now are so paranoid, kids now don't seem to get to explore their area any more. Grab the dog, some food and drink, and some bread for the ducks and get out of town for a bit, especially in Summer.
Is it a silent 'o' (Cass-i-bry) or silent 'i' (Cass-o-bry)? I would write it out as 'Cass-a-bry', but I can see a case for either o or i (the joy of having a dozen vowel sounds with 5 letters to represent them with a lot of overlap). Definitely a single, short vowel sound (/ə/, maybe?) rather than two vowel sounds though. Used to toddle there most days as a todder.
@@darthwiizius I was a bit of a walker and would walk miles without thinking about that at some point i'd have to walk back. My mum still tells me about the time i walked into watford when i was about 5 and marked the way back with chalk marks on gates and the pavement. it was the bus route and they said for weeks you could see where i had been. Happy days.
The road claimed to be Metropolitan Station Approach (at around 3.00) is actually Cassiobury Park Avenue. Station Approach runs down from the left hand side of the station (as you look at it) past the newish Cassio Metro development and meets Rickmansworth Road at the unction with Hagden Lane.
I've arrived at Watford once behind a class 25 BR diesel, direct from Rugby of all places! A railtour back in 1983 which used 25 278 and Met No 12 Sarah Siddons. Quite rateable getting the Rat right through to Watford on LT tracks!
I rather liked the Weatherspoons being an Orwellian Experience comment. While I was in London a few months back I had the unfortunate experience of the 'Spoons at Elephant and Castle. What a dreadful pub in a dreadful place.
I've been in that pub many times. It's like drinking in a run-down factory lunch room. The only reason I went there so often is that it's where I met my mates after my work on Old Kent Road.
I have a cousin who lives in Watford. As an Australian residentially I don’t get to see them too often so when I was last in London in 2019 I arranged to do so, because I do enjoy spending time with family and definitely not because it was the perfect excuse to catch a train to Watford Met. I do like the station and its country house appearance is absolutely lovely, but the fact it’s some distance from town does show. Cassiobury Park is a nice walk and rather pleasant in Winter; my cousin advised not to go there at night though. They also noted that the “proper” station for Watford is in fact Watford Junction rather than Watford High Street (or indeed Watford Met): Maybe that’s just because there are faster trains available to London from there rather than either of the others. It’s frustrating that the Met never quite got to Watford… twice. The 2010s plan to take over the Croxley Green line sounded quite good and the fact they were geared up to extend to Watford back in early last century but got stopped at the last hurdle even more so. Had the Met got their way, I suppose they would have kept the current Watford tube, albeit possibly naming it Cassiobury Park instead. Of course, from 1917 until 1982 the Bakerloo Line also served Watford (Junction and High Street obviously). Maybe there’s a case for re-instating that? Or possibly the Overground’s and National Rail’s service is perfectly adequate and there’s no need for the Bakerloo nor the Met to reach into the middle of Watford now.
I never been to Watford but I think that the Croxley Rail Link to Watford Junction via Watford High Street should still happen. And with Cassiobridge and Vicarage Road tube stations to be built along with the new viaduct and upgrades at Watford High Street. And the St. Albans Abbey branch line is a small but interesting branch line.
@@theobrigham The St Albans Abbey line is another example of an underused line hamstrung by a non-connection at one end (St Albans) due to rival railway companies. On paper there could have been a good east-west route right across Hertfordshire from Rickmansworth through Watford Junction, St Albans, Welwyn and Hertford North to Hertford East and Broxbourne. But the gaps at Croxley and St Albans, the pre-Beeching closure of the central sections and the building of houses across the Hertford North/East link has ruled it out. Herts County Council has aspirational suggestions for a HERT rapid transit route on this axis but that could be 20+ years away even if feasible.
The only thing I know about Watford is that you never get the first train in the morning, as it's full of commuting pigeons to central London. The strange thing is they never get the train back
@@highpath4776 I think it's the 2nd out, and also the last train at night - that catches people out who were expecting a nice sleepy ride in an alcoholic haze back toward Northwood, Harrow and London and instead get rudely dumped at Rickmansworth. There's a Geoff Marshall video on how he rode the curve (with a struggle).
This was yet another very interesting and informative Vlog Jago I always enjoy watching your Vlogs I learn a lot from them and always find them very interesting too keep up the good work my friend take care and stay safe
I thoroughly enjoyed this video. Mostly, for the additional footage of Watford town. It seems like a delightful place out of the hustle and bustle. And I would love the chance to enjoy a beer in a pub named the "Moon Under Water Pub". You certainly know how to whet the appetite of a bloke half the planet away from London. Also, the history of the railway serving that area I find most fascinating as well. Thanks Jago. I really enjoy a bowl of sago, but I'd swap it for serve of Jago!
I wouldn't go near any pub called "The Moon Under Water" for a 'drinking experience' unless I had no other choice. Wetherspoons pubs are large open rooms more akin to a sports hall than an intimate local pub, known for serving cheap beer and microwaved frozen food to those who value cost far more than they do quality. They're the McDonald's of the pub world (in both quality and ubiquitousness) and, whilst they serve their purpose, they're certainly nothing worth going out of your way for!
The station was constructed in the town centre. As far as I know the building is still there. It was nothing to do with the local council but the the Owner of the land where Cassiobury Park now is. It was a "Tube" station but a Metropolitan Railway station.
Opposite the station building there was an LT bus garage, built on the land that was to be part of the route on the other side of the road. This was closed and replaced by three early 1960s detached house. Quite distinct from the rest of the houses either side of them.
As someone who lived for many years within a short walk of Watford Met, this is a great video. From what I understand that the Watford Met station would have been called "Watford Park" and the town centre station "Watford Central". The "Croxley Rail link" was a complete fiasco, having attended several public events and meetings about it cica 2010. Those from the company pushing it didn't understand that the plan was unfair to those using the station, meaning around a half mile walk to the new planned stations. Also it really just went no where when you could already get to Watford Junction and Watford High Street on the Overground and National Rail. in the late 1980's a plan called the "Colne Valley Rail link" was openly discussed which would have used the "Croxley line" as it would have in the CRL, but it would have been a national rail line running from Aylesbury, then using the curve line, and then joining the Croxley line, onto Watford Junction but it was played not to stop their, joining up with the St Albans Abbey line, with a line planned to be built to join it with the St Albans City line, meaning the plan was to run trains from Luton, St Albans to Watford then onto Aylesbury. Shame it never happened.
When I recently looked at a video of a journey of a Euston to Watford Junction train, which was filmed a few years ago, I noticed that the platform of Watford High Street, had had its middle section, where the shuttle train of the Croxley Green branch, used to stop filled in. I doubt there will ever be a reanimation for that branch spur, especially because the business it served, a paper mill at Croxley Green no longer exists. The Grand Union Canal goes past Cassiobury Park, I remember that from my time at Art School in Watford, and travelling through there on a canal holiday years later. The Wetherspoon's in Wembley High Road was originally a branch of Perrings, a long lost furniture store chain. There is also another pub nearby that used to be the Post Office which is now in a building that was the old branch of Halifax, which moved to a building further down, that was the Eastern Electricity office and showroom. There's a betting shop in the old Gas Board office and showroom. Make of that what you will. 😁
The Croxley Green spur made no sense on its own, but it makes a lot of sense as a through route from the stations on the Metropolitan line to and from Watford High Street and Watford Junction and the many stations you can connect to from the latter. I think the passenger service only survived as long as it did because it was expected that the Croxley Link would be built.
I live in London and I decided to visit Watford around 4 years ago. I was rather surprised when I arrived here, expecting to alight in the middle of a bustling Town centre. I hadn't a clue how to locate the centre of town so I asked a lady for directions and walked there. I'd say it was over a mile away but only by another 800 metres or so. On the way back I walked through that large pleasant park with the unusual name and witnessed something happening, the likes of something you certainly don't see every day out in the open to say the least. Well certainly not during the afternoon!
Lived in the Watford area and went to school in Croxley, but I only ever recall once travelling to Watford station(recall it was close to Watford Grammar School), but bloody miles from anywhere useful!!! Always wondered why it was finished where it was, I assume the line you are taking about is the old BR one?
@@reptongeek none…. It was a line from the movie “Dalek Invasion of Earth 2150AD” from the mid 1960’s. The Doctor says it when trying to evade them after watching the Dalek ship fly overhead, which turns out to be a plot point because Susan has left him a note (that he doesn’t see) that explicitly says she is going to Watford as a known place of safety!). It’s the movie adaptation of the William Hartnell Story “Dalek Invasion of Earth”.
Another very interesting 8 minutes or so of viewing !! How on earth have you become so knowledgeable about the tube ? Just providing all the facts and information about the station at Watford for this edition must have taken some researching, never mind all the other clips you've produced for everyone interested in the London Underground to watch which, I must say have been just as interesting as this one. Top man !! keep up the work. I have recently cancelled my television licence, as I was hardly watching it, (some days not at all), preferring instead to watch channels like yours, and other TH-cam clips. Cheers mate.
Thanks for this - we were in Watford while visiting from Canada back in January and did the trek from the towne centre to Watford Station and wondered.
Absolutely no point to that, two operators serving the same stations makes no sense, it has even been muted that outside of peak hours the Bakerloo would, could and some say should, terminate at Queens Park as it often does due to disruption.
@@nw5835 Other than accessing the depot at Stonebridge Park, the main reason why the Bakerloo extends north of Queens Park is to boost the 4tph frequency that the DC lines provide (by 8tph between Queens Park and Stonebridge Park, and 4tph between Stonebridge Park and Harrow & Wealdstone). North of Harrow, I gather that people mostly want Euston, so having that provide the 4tph service requirement, rather than Bakerloo (which can be changed onto easily), makes sense.
Took a look. Glad i did. One line (of commentary) is a particular treasure. And then there is ' deliberately misleading marketing ' ,it alone reaches all parts. Also you did not mention the unmentionable when discussing 'Metroland' for which I am,yours gratefully 👍
Not only is Watford poorly named, but so were the two Croxley stations, with Croxley on the Met being much closer to Croxley Green itself than the station called Croxley Green at the end of the branch from Watford Junction.
For the Watford FC supporters amongst us, that more recent proposal to connect the Met to Watford Junction would have provided a handy intermediary stop at “Watford Vicarage Road” - the station names have had several variations from those on the map you briefly showed. Alas in its absence travel to the ground by public transport involves a reasonable walk on pretty much any route.
I went to the Watford v Maidstone FA Cup back in the 80s, on a football special train and that's exactly where we got off! I assume that that line wasn't in use then, so it was easier to shunt us up there, right next to the ground than march us from High Street or Junction, with the associated police costs. From memmory (not entirely reliable), the station looked fairly normal (although rather functional) so I assumed that it was regularly used for football specials (I didn't know anything about the Watford rail/Underground situation in tose days). As an aside, sitting right at the top of Watford's (then) big new stand in January was the coldest I have ever been at football - and I once got frozen to the ground at Dagenham!
8.15 that would have been a nice little line and would have been a convenient and well used line. This probably would have taken a few cars off the road and cleaned up the air just that tiny bit.
Thank you so much for talking about this station of a town I love. Sadly priced out of watford now but used to use this station a lot. Always wondered why the distance. And never knew the pub was a planned station - have to tell my parents. My only issue with with watford station is the toilets; urinals we’re badly designed. Might you think about a feature on Watford Junction? I’ve only used the station once in my life to be honest but it would be great.
@2:40, only a couple of days' ago I came across a book detailing what came to be known as Metroland. I might go back and see if it's still there as £3.99 is not a huge stretch after all.
Spent my childhood in Watford, always thought the stations were ridiculous. Incidentally, Wether spoons head office and training office are based in Watford. Ten min walk from Junction station. I did a lot of training there, failed the last one, cash control. Not sad about that now. Didn't really wanna end up managing a pub
Bravo Zulu sir on your videos. I get to see a lot of the surrounding areas of London thru your videos, thank you. Keep up the hard work 😎 Twenty eleven.......two thousand eleven.......really 🤔 🤪 ?! Umm, o k . If that's what people have, ok they can have it. I've got other things to spend my energy on. Peace Love & Groovies 😎
It has always struck me as a trifle odd that St Albans, with a population of around 80,000, is classed as a city, simply because they have a cathedral, whereas the neighbouring settlement of Watford, with over 130,000, is just a lowly market town. Though I guess, if it wasn't for the green belt, it'd probably be a London suburb by now.
Watford Station would probably have been renamed Cassiobury The Croxley rail link or one of it's variants has been proposed several times, it nearly got the go head this time but then funding that depended on other funding that depended on further other funding didn't happen...
Again from my commuting days, maybe I should make a video about those ? The days were, before the Jubbly line (typo intended) , the Bakerloo used to branch at Baker Street and go off on it's merry way to Watford, or now Watford High Street. The was a station announcer, who sounded like Janet Street Porter, who with great gusto announce "WATFORD TRAIN" change here for Paddington, always a pain in the arse having to chance platforms at Baker Street. In the now day job, I carry out searches for house sales and have to report on the rail scheme for the Croxley Rail link, but to the current incumbent of the Mayor's post having bankrupted TfL, the plug got pulled, and as a result Watford Station was reprieved. I'm pretty sure that someone at either Watford or Three Rivers council told me that I can't remember that Lord so and so owned Cassiobury Park and that like so many other land owners didn't want the railway crossing his land.
Great video! I’ve been researching the railway around my local area and i’d be interested if you could do a video on Brunel’s “atmospheric pressure” railways into Devon
I suspect if there was a station in town, Watford would have been Croxley, and Croxley would have been Croxley Green. But wasn't there plans for a huge watford terminus at one point where at Elstree hill roundabout is today (the Esso garage)? That Wetherspoons used to be a Dixons back in the day, I bought my Amstrad in there, and my mum wouldn't was accosted by someone dressed as a giant weetabix who wouldn't let her out the shop until she bought something (not a joke). Or was it a Wimpy and Dixons was next door?
Funny you should mention the station at Elstree, that’s going to be in a video I’ve had in the works for quite a while. A pox upon the treachery of Weetabix!
Watford wouldn’t have been Croxley because it’s not even in Croxley - Cassiobury would be a much better name for it since its proximity to the park and the residential Cassiobury estate
I really like the architecture of Watford Station, but calling it Watford is a bit of a stretch. Should be called Cassiobury, or Outer Watford, somethong like that.
Whenever I am shown a new part of London in these vidoes, I go to google maps to see how it is there. And imagine myself having grown up in the area. Would be so nice.
As someone who lives in North Watford and have done my entire life I've never once used the station, its miles away from most people and in my opinion almost completely useless. I was so excited about the croxley link but unfortunately there's almost no chance it ever gets built- council is useless and I'm sure covid has killed any chance of TFL wanting to fund it since we aren't in London anyway. Guess I'll have to keep paying £15 a day for my commute just to Euston and back- nevermind the underground. What a joke. Great video though
From your LeviNZ correspondent, this fine autumn day..... the "railway domestic" style is quite charming and appeals to me. If the little business could remove their otherwise non functional orange awning it would balance the frontal aspect quite nicely. The density and ..sameness..of so much UK suburban design is quite foreign,,obviously.. to NZ eyes. The Metroland Peak houses shown here have a solid charm of their own. 2022 "2 thousand and twenty two"....there you go ;-)
Don't push your love too far Your wounds won't leave a scar Right now is where you are In a broken dream Python Lee Jackson featuring an uncredited Rod Stewart as the singer.
I forsook Watford in 1969 but 'The Moon under Water' used to be Grange (for G-Plan furniture) with a large fancy metal 'canopy' suspended over the entrance. It was only a little way up from the High Street LNW station. PS. the earthworks, especially the bridge over the Gade at the southern end of Cassiobury park were extensive and costly. involving much piling. The goods shed at Watford Met. still proclaimed 'Metropolitan and Great Central Railway goods warehouse'. I expect the goods yard has become a car park but that was half a century ago.
There used to be Bakerloo trains to Watford Junction, plus the mainline trains to Euston, which offered a much quicker option to London from the centre of town.
When I lived in South Harrow as a lad in the 1950's - 60's I had no reason to travel to Watford Met. Station being a fair walk from the Watford shops. It was not on a red bus route so I travelled to Harrow and Wealdstone on the 158 bus and took the Bakerloo line to Watford High Street - YES, 1938 stock - lovely little red trains running through the countryside. There was also British Rail brown compartment stock, bigger and noisier, especially the compressors. These were happy times when life was lived at a slower pace and people seemed kinder than they are now.
I'm told that funding was not available for the extension of the Met to Watford Jct because that was in Hertfordshire, and Mayor Sadiq, whose sole interest in transport seems to be to make journeys by bus as slow and off-putting as possible, wouldn't finance something that might benefit something that was Not London. 🙍 Even though it might have benefitted TfL by encouraging more passengers to use the line.
The Mayor, or at least his spokesperson, gave the petty and parochial 'its not London' reason to the press when pausing the project. While that played well to much of the mayors' audience at City Hall, and played terribly in Watford (and other places beyond the boundary either with or possibly getting TfL-run service), it wasn't the reason it was cancelled. They found that the disused railway embankment wasn't suitable for putting a railway along anymore, and so the viaduct needed to be much longer. This meant a much higher costs, but the same benefits, and the business case was gone.
@@iankemp1131 probably had subsided - it hadn't really been maintained for some time, when the last train ran in '96, the line was already in a depilated state. Plus there's a difference between what you need in an embankment for a short EMU running over it infrequently in days when H&S wasn't as strict, and an embankment with long trains running over it 6 times an hour in both directions in this era post-Railtrack and their failings. E-W Rail is also finding out that they need to do a lot of work on the old track bed there. And Crossrail basically entirely rebuilt the stretch of North London Line they use (part of that is alignment reasons). It's not a specific Croxley branch problem.
@@sihollett Very interesting points. Shows that although we think of cuttings and embankments as pretty solid, we can't rely on them to keep integrity without maintenance. I remember some years ago being booked on a railtour to the Weardale Railway but the little-used connecting link at Bishop Auckland subsided. It was repaired some years later in 2018 and the railtour finally took place.
I am glad to see this wee tale turn up on your channel, though in truth I expected it would eventually 😎 I remember the new scheme being proposed but realised any progress had screamed to a halt on account of nothing happening for about four years and “Watford” most definitely still being on the map! I was one of those that took a ride on the Croxley Green stub just before it closed and it did strike me then what a half-baked curiosity it was, barely used despite the proximity of the Met line. Was that part of an old proposal? An idea that passed them by? Or maybe they were just fed up with Watford altogether and thought “some other mug can do that”?😂 I am guessing that the proposed link to bridge over the extant roads from Croxley over to the site of the old Croxley Green station was the tipping-point preventative cost that scuppered the proposal, and in any case I guess the success of the current Overground route has at least partly undermined the desired impact such a line through Croxley Green might have made🤔Apparently there were working parties clearing lines etc before the plug was pulled so they must have been fairly serious about it! 🤷🏻♂️ As for the story of the Cassiobury Park, I was of the understanding that one of the reasons the council got funny about it was because they only got the land from the previous ownership on the condition that a ruddy great railway didn’t go through it. I don’t know if that is one of the stories you heard but I seem to recall there was something about that in some book or other I once read back in the midsts of time when I was less senile 🙄 Thanks old stick, great mini-telly as ever 👍🍻🍀
When arriving at Watford Junction by train the announcements say "change here for the Underground" which is probably the biggest stretch of walking distance anywhere!
It's disappointing that the line wasn't extended to the High Street. If they'd managed to include a bar one could have had a near Orwellian Wetherspoons experience before departure and upon arrival when travelling to Baker Street.
It's unfortunate that TFL didn't see it as an investment in capacity - however it was Sadiq Khan that blocked it as it didn't benefit London (or so he thought).
@@hairyairey I'm probably wrong, but I thought that his decision followed on from Hertfordshire County Council deciding that they were no longer willing to contribute to the Link, and if Herts CC won't/can't fund public transport works in their county, why should TfL who are after all funded by London's taxpayers? Something along those lines, anyway.
@@atraindriver no, TFL are not just funded by London's taxpayers they run services well outside London. The Wikipedia page on the croxley rail link says the Mayor blocked it. With a reference
@@hairyairey I said I was probably wrong, and so I was :) Where they run doesn't necessarily represent where their funding comes from, though; they cover various routes outside London for historic reasons.
@@atraindriver Just look at all the tube lines that finish outside London. All of that is income for TFL including the Metropolitan line. I really cannot understand them not doing it. Diversion routes for rail lines are much needed. Any issue between Watford Junction and Euston can be diverted down the Metropolitan line.
Now it occurs that I have never been to Watford, rather only to play golf somewhere in its countryside but I have partook of Weatherspoons in several locales, the most distant from London being York. I need to track my Weatherspoons now and also up my train ridership to greater London destinations to keep up with the video explorations!
I went there too , 1984-1991 “Trog” Turner was the headmaster . We used to buy individual cigarettes in the little shop at the station after flogging our meal tickets 😄
Very interesting. I've done Watford High Street and Watford Jn on the overground on the return leg of a trip from Staines to Milton Keynes, but I haven't yet done Watford because I usually get the Zones 1-6 travelcard which of course aren't valid out in the outer reaches of the Met. Tbh I've still got all of the Watford DC line to do aside from Watford Jn, Watford High Street, Bushey, Wembley Central, and Willesden Jn, and all the stops north of Baker St on both Bakerloo and Met lines (I'm counting visiting the stations on overground separately from national rail for this line (which tbh would only then include Euston and Harrow & Wealdstone. I include stations I've done on overground as part of the national rail set, but I can't count stations towards the overground count if I've only done them with other operators (Virgin Trains for Euston and LNWR for Harrow & Wealdstone in this case), and counting visiting them on the bakerloo as separate too, like I'll need to do with the Met and Chiltern joint stops (Harrow on the Hill, and RIckmansworth northwards). I wonder what my best option for tickets for station hopping in zones 7-9 would be. Maybe driving to Amersham and getting a travelcard from there , or I could drive to Aylesbury, do all stops Chiltern and Met down to Marylebone and back up via the Chiltern Mainline (although that's quite a few stops and I doubt the stopping frequency would allow such a thing within one day. I also have to do the curve to Bicester Village, and up to Lapworth and across to Stratford (not including Leamington Spa or Banbury) to complete the Chiltern network)
I believe that pub was the first ever 'Spoons, and so the first of several in the group with that name. In the early days of the group standard urban and suburban pubs were in steep decline. Watford was a brewing town, turning out, by then, only dire keg beer, and Lord Moon of the Mall brought a genuine new broom to a dying institution, and real draught ale which was increasingly scarce anywhere, particularly around London which is where his early pubs were.
"Catch the train to London, stopping at Rejection, Disappointment, Backstabbing Central and Shattered Dreams Parkway.”
I am automaticaly suspicious of any new station whose name ends in 'Parkway'. The old GWR and LSWR often had station names ending in 'Road' ie Clarbiston Road - which means, as does 'Parkway' that the station is some distance from the place it purports to serve......
Yup, my mum's local train station is Oxford Parkway, yet it's not in Oxford. It should be called Kidlington, as that's where it's closest to!
Funny you should reference Alan Partridge, as Watford Met featured in a few scenes of another Coogan creation 'Saxondale'. Infact most of it was filmed in Watford.
@@johndavies1090 "Parkway" is more honest than "Road" because at least "Parkway" gives you the instant feeling that you'll need to drive there and try to find a space less than a mile's hike across some humongous car park which used to be about three farms back in the day.
@@sapphireseptember It's Oxford Parkway because it's intended much more as a Park & Ride station for motorists from the wider area going to Oxford or London than as a local station for local people in Kidlington. Sometimes there is method to their madness!
Used by generations of schoolboys travelling from the leafy well to do suburbs of Northwood and Moor Park, to the Grammar school next to to station.
Within memory the platforms had the original cast iron fancy lamp posts along the platform which were much prettier than the functionally identical modern ones.
The Croxley rail link would have required the building of a new fourth bridge over the road at the roundabout and the ironic demolition of the Pub called the Three Bridges, now an anonymous Harvester.
The Harvester is encased in scaffolding at the moment, suggesting a refurbishment, so they obviously don't expect the extension to be built.
The pub is in fact The Two Bridges built in 1957 to replace The Halfway House adjacent to the canal.
Central heating (3:15) was largely unknown in 1925; it's easy to forget that things we take for granted today have not been around for ever. My parents' house was built in 1927 and was coal-fired, like virtually all others at the time. In the 1960s we used to stay with friends in London who had had the new-fangled central heating installed; we used to feel it was too warm and stuffy. My dad put electric fires in the fireplaces (it was very useful to be able to remove them and re-use the grate during 1970s strikes and power cuts) but it was not till he died in 2007 and the house was sold that the new owners retrofitted central heating. Coal-fired boilers weren't great for CH either; up to the 1960s coal and oil were cheap, gas and electricity was expensive. Gas became the fuel of choice when North Sea gas was discovered. So the Met were not behind the times in putting coal fires in Watford and the staff would not have blinked an eyelid then or for many years afterwards.
Hercule Poirot, in many of the earlier novels and stories, goes into rhapsodies about central heating and doesn’t understand why it’s relatively uncommon in England. The first Poirot novel was written by Agatha Christie in 1916 and published in the U. S. in 1920 and the U. K. in 1921, and so I’m guessing 1925-1940, maybe later, for Poirot doing that. Seems likely enough.
yeah, like free trade with Europe you mean ?
Much the same as my parents house. except tey remained using electric fires till the '90s
Exactly.
Coal fires were the norm in station waiting rooms until the 1950s and 60s. Railway staff who had accomodation in the station would also have heated their homes with open fires. Gas fired central heating only became common when natural gas came ashore from the North Sea.
Of course Americans had central heating generations earlier, nobody wanted to carry sacks of coal up high rise Manhattan flats.
@@thomasburke2683 indeed, although that was steam district heating provided from a large central boiler some miles away, rather than central heating per building or per apartment as we think of it today. NYC still has the largest steam network today, and steam is still a little cheaper than gas from ConEd, though more and more buildings are changing to their own managed heating systems and disconnecting from the steam.
Ah, that explains Orwell's literary masterpiece 'Down and out in Paris and Wetherspoons!'
The Road to Watford Pier; Amersham Farm; Homage to Camdentown; Coming Up For (F)airlop; Shooting an Elephant & Castle; Burnt Oak Days.
1984 The cost of a round of drinks at Wetherspoons, or a badly timed train.
You do have to wonder what Orwell, who once wrote of the money tainted atmosphere of England, would think of his somehow inspiring Tim Martin's cheap grog shop empire. I can't imagine he'd be a fan of Weatherspoons.
@@dickmove9517 Orwell wrote of hotel rooms in Paris with mold covered walls and lines of insects climbing up them. And of London 'Spikes' where you'd sleep draped across a rope lined up with other down and outs! I suspect he'd feel right at home in a Wetherspoons!
PS sleeping slumped across a taut rope (usually too drunk to pay for a bed) is where the term 'Hung-over' originates!
That last line was a good laugh..."Bad news for the credibility of the Metropolitan Railway's publicity department" 😄
On the other hand, they deserve applause, being next asked to sell ice to eskimos and sand to arabia.
My home town.
I always tell people there were plans to put a station where ‘moons’ is, but they never believe me!
The brick building at Watford fits in quite well with the surrounding brick-built semi-detached housing.
Yes, it's beautiful.
I suspect Watford's station being where it is has helped make houses within walking distance of it more expensive. There are some large houses on the other side of Cassiobury park which are just a 5 or so minute walk across the park from the station which must be a pleasant way to start your commute.
The Cassiobury estate,or just the Cassiobury,as it's widely known locally,has long been one of the most sought-after parts of Watford to live in.
@@rjjcms1 Very similar to the Town of Mount Royal in Montreal QC Canada - Created by the Canadian Northern RR at the portal of Mount Royal Tunnel.
Best end to a muddy dog walk, feet up, mug of coffee and watching Jago Hazzard😁❤️🚂
Never ceasing amazement at people getting worked up at trivia like 2022 versus 2022! Great videos by the way.
When will people realise it's MMXXII?
2022 or 2022? Everyone surely knows it's neither of them but 2022!
Surely it's two, zero, two, two?
Its all about which god you believe in really, you can chose from 5782, 1443, 2775, 3414, or many others. 2022 is just the most convenient one.
Its obviously 2022 because of its better syllable grouping and rhythm than 2022.
2-2-1 rather than 1-2-1-1. That saves time during the course of a week.
That Wetherspoon was the 100th Wetherspoon. I lived in Watford when it opened, and they threw an opening event which I went to. This was in about 1994, when a Wetherspoon was a welcome addition to the local ale scene. Then I went back to drinking in Blake’s…
Has it always been 'The Moon Under Water' since it has been opened? I ask as there used to be one in Twickenham with the same style of writing on the frontage which has now been renamed and wondered if this has now just moved or is just a common name.
@@andyaccount I think most 'Spoons back then were named after what the building was previously used for. The first one in Derby is in an 18th century bank, so is named 'The Standing Order'. Could 'The Moon Under Water' be the standard name when the building hasn't got such a distinctive history?
@@MarkJohnsonmarknotgeorge That is Correct.
@@andyaccount Yes - at the time, Wetherspoon had a few pub names they used a lot.
How long did it take you to recover from a Wetherspoons experience?
l used to work at Watford Met as a Booking Clerk ( those were the days. from start to end of traffic)
There existed a rumour that the tunnels under Cassiobury Park were actually started and if the concrete walls at the platform ends were pierced you would come across them!
That's interesting I wonder if they are there, I'd like to know.!
Hmmm...I would have thought that if tunnels were even partially excavated the local authorities may have sought to use them as public air-raid shelters during World War 2. Doesn't always follow though...cost and all that....
02:50 _This street is called Metropolitan Station Approach._
No, that's nearby and is not so picturesque. This is Cassiobury Park Avenue.
(Anyway, nice of you to look in on Watford.)
:)
Prob the road signage is confusing
A tale from the Island! My old home ground,Locust Valley,has a similar write up,to Watford! Seems,when the Long Island,made it past Glen Head,and later Glen Cove,it came to the heights[really a ridge line],and built a terminal,complete with turntable and engine house! This was then called- Locust Valley(which actually was on a hill),of course this was during the 1870's,and the branch was run as a shuttle service,with a Locust Valley car,originating out of Brooklyn! Oh,yes,the original village of LV,was down in the hollow,and it was removed to the top of the hill,where now,everything resides! You have to know where to look,to find the history! Then came Teddy Roosevelt,and that's for another time! Thank you,Jago,for another,very interesting video!! I apologize for my overdone verbiage,but I think history really should be more open,and far better known,London,has so much,and most people walk by it,with barely a second glance!! Thanks again 😊!
That Weatherspoons jibe is very good, congrats.
spat my tea at that - the delivery of the line was just great
Cassobury park has a small children's railway. It would be nice to see a part of the video covering that. Although this was a great and that might of confused things
You just made my day Jago. I’ve been waiting ages for you get around to doing the Met line and the first station you do is Watford, I grew up using that station. Thank you.
The Croxley Link is absolutely worth a separate video, it might be quite a long one with all the false starts over the years. As another commenter pointed out, it was first proposed in the late 1940s. In a logical world there would have been an end-on connection to the LMS Croxley Green branch from the word go, but the LNER and LMS were rivals, so it got a separate line instead. Were Watford Council wrong to block the extension? Even if it had happened, it would still have dead-ended in the middle of town with no connection from the Northwood/Harrow area to Watford Junction without a walk. From 1948, with a single nationalised railway, the Croxley Link made huge sense, but just never happened despite repeated proposals. Periodically, massive documents are produced by the councils and TfL with lots of alternatives for the route, but all the useful ones are ruled out as too expensive. My personal favourite would be light rail or tram Rickmansworth-Croxley-Croxley Green-Watford High Street- Watford Junction (flyover)-St Albans Abbey-St Albans City, possibly via town centre. Cheaper than heavy rail, but apparently a problem is that it would be hard to make the trains and signalling compatible with the Underground in the Croxley area as well as National Rail round Watford. As we know from the Elizabeth line, getting different sets of software to talk to each other can be much harder than it looks. Similar problems seem to have been claimed with the Met extension to Watford Junction, accounting for much of the escalation in expected cost (£65M 2005, £360M 2018; gold-plated rails?).
Possibly its the signalling but I think the Viaduct needed wasnt properly costed in the early days. The project for Barking Riverside involving a viaduct of similar distance is coming in at £327M
@@simoncolenutt5228 Wow, that's pretty incredible. I wonder how that compares with the cost of the whole London to Greenwich or Blackwall viaducts adjusted to modern times - all hand laid brick. I have a nasty feeling that the Chinese would deliver it in half the time and a tenth of the cost, judging from their recent high speed rail lines.
I do remember in the early 2010's there being a start to this scheme. Vegatation was cleared from the disused Croxley Green branch but then... nothing.
The funding seems to stall at TfL not being prepared to pay for works outside London and Herts County Council not being happy paying for a London Underground line.
The last I heard, the initial planning permission lapsed in 2015 and no doubt the vegatation has all grown back!
@@jimtuite3451 The relevant Wikipedia page contains the following somewhat horrifying statement; "A 2017 Freedom of Information request revealed that £130 million of the £284 million funding had already been spent, but the only works that had actually been delivered were some utility diversions and route clearance." There are supporting references, so it is presumably accurate. They don't seem to have got a lot for their money. In fact the mind boggles at what they could have actually spent it on.
@@iankemp1131 Good grief. If that happened anywhere else we'd be dismissing it as coruption. Only in Britain can we squander sums of money like that with receipts to back it up!
In modern parlance, it would have been called Watford Parkway.
I've heard it called NOTford.
Usually just called Watford Met by the locals I know.
It's very good for commuters in the North/West of the town though
I believe that an objector to the Met. buying up land towards Watford was Hubert von Herkomer who had his studio and an art school at Bushey, nearby. He said that the rural peace of his property and therefore his business would be greatly affected.
Bet he claimed that he wasn't a NIMBY, too. They always do.
My old house in Bushey was built on the site of Herkomers old estate (it was literally on Herkomer Road) and we had the last remaining apple tree from his orchard in our back garden . His giant house was called “Lululaund” , it had a balcony inside and when he got tanked up at the parties he used to throw , he’d ride his horse up the stairs and go charging across the balconey , bit of a madman !
I love your sense of humour. I'm watching the date and am ready for this year's "biddy ripper" 😂
Great to see a video about good ol Watford! - I wonder if you could make a video about the "Bushey Arches" on the Watford DC line - such an immense construction just to bring trains to the centre of town (and serving effectively only Watford High Street station) is fascinating
Beautiful station - and really convenient for the Cassiobury Park next door.
Getting "Sidelined"...nah, always enjoy you branching out. I'm guessing had the "proper" terminus been built they would have changed the name of the current station to Cassiobury park. OR maybe if the park didnt exist at that point, they could have gone with "Watford Gade" - after the nearby river.
Having used the Watford Met station a few times, I would suggest that it's location isn't that bad. After all, not everyone is going to the centre of Watford (Watford High Street) so it works as a Watford West type of station, akin to the vast number of Acton or Finchley stations.
Yep, as a commuter station it's location is actually very good, and hundreds of schoolkids use it everyday too. Just a bit annoying for those people who don't realise that it's not in the centre of town.
The "Cassiobury park" had a silent 'o', I lived just south of Watford for 40 years and have never heard it pronounced that way.
Used to get off at Watford station and walk up to Cassionury park to play in the river during the summer holidays. A tin of Heinz baked beans and a pen knife was all that was needed for the day out. Play in river in underpants and dry off in the sun and cold beans for lunch what more did you need. (Late 1960's)
The kids of today don't know what fun is without a keyboard.
I'm from ten years later mate and parents now are so paranoid, kids now don't seem to get to explore their area any more. Grab the dog, some food and drink, and some bread for the ducks and get out of town for a bit, especially in Summer.
Well, they could play in the river with a keyboard...
Is it a silent 'o' (Cass-i-bry) or silent 'i' (Cass-o-bry)? I would write it out as 'Cass-a-bry', but I can see a case for either o or i (the joy of having a dozen vowel sounds with 5 letters to represent them with a lot of overlap). Definitely a single, short vowel sound (/ə/, maybe?) rather than two vowel sounds though.
Used to toddle there most days as a todder.
@@sihollett I think the 'Cass-a-bry' sounds about right in my head.
@@darthwiizius I was a bit of a walker and would walk miles without thinking about that at some point i'd have to walk back.
My mum still tells me about the time i walked into watford when i was about 5 and marked the way back with chalk marks on gates and the pavement. it was the bus route and they said for weeks you could see where i had been. Happy days.
The road claimed to be Metropolitan Station Approach (at around 3.00) is actually Cassiobury Park Avenue. Station Approach runs down from the left hand side of the station (as you look at it) past the newish Cassio Metro development and meets Rickmansworth Road at the unction with Hagden Lane.
You can no longer get through I think, not by car anyway.
I've arrived at Watford once behind a class 25 BR diesel, direct from Rugby of all places! A railtour back in 1983 which used 25 278 and Met No 12 Sarah Siddons. Quite rateable getting the Rat right through to Watford on LT tracks!
I rather liked the Weatherspoons being an Orwellian Experience comment. While I was in London a few months back I had the unfortunate experience of the 'Spoons at Elephant and Castle. What a dreadful pub in a dreadful place.
I've been in that pub many times. It's like drinking in a run-down factory lunch room. The only reason I went there so often is that it's where I met my mates after my work on Old Kent Road.
I have a cousin who lives in Watford. As an Australian residentially I don’t get to see them too often so when I was last in London in 2019 I arranged to do so, because I do enjoy spending time with family and definitely not because it was the perfect excuse to catch a train to Watford Met.
I do like the station and its country house appearance is absolutely lovely, but the fact it’s some distance from town does show. Cassiobury Park is a nice walk and rather pleasant in Winter; my cousin advised not to go there at night though. They also noted that the “proper” station for Watford is in fact Watford Junction rather than Watford High Street (or indeed Watford Met): Maybe that’s just because there are faster trains available to London from there rather than either of the others.
It’s frustrating that the Met never quite got to Watford… twice. The 2010s plan to take over the Croxley Green line sounded quite good and the fact they were geared up to extend to Watford back in early last century but got stopped at the last hurdle even more so. Had the Met got their way, I suppose they would have kept the current Watford tube, albeit possibly naming it Cassiobury Park instead.
Of course, from 1917 until 1982 the Bakerloo Line also served Watford (Junction and High Street obviously). Maybe there’s a case for re-instating that? Or possibly the Overground’s and National Rail’s service is perfectly adequate and there’s no need for the Bakerloo nor the Met to reach into the middle of Watford now.
1:59 Charles Walter Clark.....he just went tick-tock and chimed every hour! LOL
I never been to Watford but I think that the Croxley Rail Link to Watford Junction via Watford High Street should still happen. And with Cassiobridge and Vicarage Road tube stations to be built along with the new viaduct and upgrades at Watford High Street. And the St. Albans Abbey branch line is a small but interesting branch line.
I believe the authorities concerned are sniffing around it, now called "W2CL".
@@sillypuppy5940 True.
A video on the st albans abbey branch would be great
@@theobrigham Indeed.
@@theobrigham The St Albans Abbey line is another example of an underused line hamstrung by a non-connection at one end (St Albans) due to rival railway companies. On paper there could have been a good east-west route right across Hertfordshire from Rickmansworth through Watford Junction, St Albans, Welwyn and Hertford North to Hertford East and Broxbourne. But the gaps at Croxley and St Albans, the pre-Beeching closure of the central sections and the building of houses across the Hertford North/East link has ruled it out. Herts County Council has aspirational suggestions for a HERT rapid transit route on this axis but that could be 20+ years away even if feasible.
The only thing I know about Watford is that you never get the first train in the morning, as it's full of commuting pigeons to central London. The strange thing is they never get the train back
Fly - Isnt too the first train out one (maybe 2nd) that starts in Rickmansworth and uses the croxley curve ?
@@highpath4776 I think it's the 2nd out, and also the last train at night - that catches people out who were expecting a nice sleepy ride in an alcoholic haze back toward Northwood, Harrow and London and instead get rudely dumped at Rickmansworth. There's a Geoff Marshall video on how he rode the curve (with a struggle).
@@iankemp1131 Who considers a night out in Watford the height of entertainment !
@@highpath4776 Apparently some do - probably livelier than a night out in Rickmansworth or Northwood ...
@@highpath4776 well there is the Joanna Lumley pole dancing club on the high street. Not that Joanna Lumley
These are definitely becoming "must watch". Well done!
I once ended up at Watford as an away fan intending to get to Vicarage Road. It was a long walk !
This just keeps getting better and better.
Thank you, your work is much appreciated.
This was yet another very interesting and informative Vlog Jago I always enjoy watching your Vlogs I learn a lot from them and always find them very interesting too keep up the good work my friend take care and stay safe
I thoroughly enjoyed this video. Mostly, for the additional footage of Watford town. It seems like a delightful place out of the hustle and bustle.
And I would love the chance to enjoy a beer in a pub named the "Moon Under Water Pub". You certainly know how to whet the appetite of a
bloke half the planet away from London. Also, the history of the railway serving that area I find most fascinating as well. Thanks Jago. I really
enjoy a bowl of sago, but I'd swap it for serve of Jago!
I wouldn't go near any pub called "The Moon Under Water" for a 'drinking experience' unless I had no other choice. Wetherspoons pubs are large open rooms more akin to a sports hall than an intimate local pub, known for serving cheap beer and microwaved frozen food to those who value cost far more than they do quality. They're the McDonald's of the pub world (in both quality and ubiquitousness) and, whilst they serve their purpose, they're certainly nothing worth going out of your way for!
Is it twinned with a pub in "Milk Wood"....?
The local council rejected a tube station in the centre of town and instead built a concrete flyover half way along the High Street. Planners, eh?
The station was constructed in the town centre. As far as I know the building is still there. It was nothing to do with the local council but the the Owner of the land where Cassiobury Park now is.
It was a "Tube" station but a Metropolitan Railway station.
Opposite the station building there was an LT bus garage, built on the land that was to be part of the route on the other side of the road. This was closed and replaced by three early 1960s detached house. Quite distinct from the rest of the houses either side of them.
Beautifully shot as always, good dose of British eye candy
As someone who lived for many years within a short walk of Watford Met, this is a great video. From what I understand that the Watford Met station would have been called "Watford Park" and the town centre station "Watford Central". The "Croxley Rail link" was a complete fiasco, having attended several public events and meetings about it cica 2010. Those from the company pushing it didn't understand that the plan was unfair to those using the station, meaning around a half mile walk to the new planned stations. Also it really just went no where when you could already get to Watford Junction and Watford High Street on the Overground and National Rail. in the late 1980's a plan called the "Colne Valley Rail link" was openly discussed which would have used the "Croxley line" as it would have in the CRL, but it would have been a national rail line running from Aylesbury, then using the curve line, and then joining the Croxley line, onto Watford Junction but it was played not to stop their, joining up with the St Albans Abbey line, with a line planned to be built to join it with the St Albans City line, meaning the plan was to run trains from Luton, St Albans to Watford then onto Aylesbury. Shame it never happened.
When I recently looked at a video of a journey of a Euston to Watford Junction train, which was filmed a few years ago, I noticed that the platform of Watford High Street, had had its middle section, where the shuttle train of the Croxley Green branch, used to stop filled in. I doubt there will ever be a reanimation for that branch spur, especially because the business it served, a paper mill at Croxley Green no longer exists.
The Grand Union Canal goes past Cassiobury Park, I remember that from my time at Art School in Watford, and travelling through there on a canal holiday years later.
The Wetherspoon's in Wembley High Road was originally a branch of Perrings, a long lost furniture store chain. There is also another pub nearby that used to be the Post Office which is now in a building that was the old branch of Halifax, which moved to a building further down, that was the Eastern Electricity office and showroom. There's a betting shop in the old Gas Board office and showroom. Make of that what you will. 😁
The Croxley Green spur made no sense on its own, but it makes a lot of sense as a through route from the stations on the Metropolitan line to and from Watford High Street and Watford Junction and the many stations you can connect to from the latter. I think the passenger service only survived as long as it did because it was expected that the Croxley Link would be built.
3:15I doubt many houses would have had central heating then. Nearly everywhere would have had a fireplace in every room (usually tended by the maid)
I’m dubious that everywhere had a maid…
Rather, a fireplace or enclosed stove in the living room seemed most common in working class houses.
Another cracking video sir.
Great stuff, Mr H, as indeed we have come to expect from your good self. No - wait - make that 'excellent self'. Fully spiffing, and Thanks. Simon T
I live in London and I decided to visit Watford around 4 years ago. I was rather surprised when I arrived here, expecting to alight in the middle of a bustling Town centre. I hadn't a clue how to locate the centre of town so I asked a lady for directions and walked there. I'd say it was over a mile away but only by another 800 metres or so. On the way back I walked through that large pleasant park with the unusual name and witnessed something happening, the likes of something you certainly don't see every day out in the open to say the least. Well certainly not during the afternoon!
So very British to add 800 metres to a mile!
Mind telling us what it was you saw on Cassiobury Park that afternoon ?
@@alanlittle4589 Ah yes, I get your point.
Most interesting! Thank you. That explains a lot!
Lived in the Watford area and went to school in Croxley, but I only ever recall once travelling to Watford station(recall it was close to Watford Grammar School), but bloody miles from anywhere useful!!! Always wondered why it was finished where it was, I assume the line you are taking about is the old BR one?
I always avoid Watford, apparently it’s crawling with Daleks 😎
Is that a derogatory name for all of those welcoming polish gentlemen outside the station?
If the alternative is Luton, I'll risk it ;-)
@Rich Remind me which serial of Doctor Who that featured Daleks was recorded in Watford
@@reptongeek none…. It was a line from the movie “Dalek Invasion of Earth 2150AD” from the mid 1960’s. The Doctor says it when trying to evade them after watching the Dalek ship fly overhead, which turns out to be a plot point because Susan has left him a note (that he doesn’t see) that explicitly says she is going to Watford as a known place of safety!).
It’s the movie adaptation of the William Hartnell Story “Dalek Invasion of Earth”.
@@tbjtbj7930 😁
Another very interesting 8 minutes or so of viewing !!
How on earth have you become so knowledgeable about the tube ?
Just providing all the facts and information about the station at Watford for this edition must have taken some researching, never mind all the other clips you've produced for everyone interested in the London Underground to watch which, I must say have been just as interesting as this one.
Top man !! keep up the work. I have recently cancelled my television licence, as I was hardly watching it, (some days not at all), preferring instead to watch channels like yours, and other TH-cam clips.
Cheers mate.
Thanks for this - we were in Watford while visiting from Canada back in January and did the trek from the towne centre to Watford Station and wondered.
Never understood why they dont just re extend the Bakerloo Line which used to server Watford Junction
They might probably lost the London Overground Watford DC service to Euston?
Absolutely no point to that, two operators serving the same stations makes no sense, it has even been muted that outside of peak hours the Bakerloo would, could and some say should, terminate at Queens Park as it often does due to disruption.
@@nw5835 Other than accessing the depot at Stonebridge Park, the main reason why the Bakerloo extends north of Queens Park is to boost the 4tph frequency that the DC lines provide (by 8tph between Queens Park and Stonebridge Park, and 4tph between Stonebridge Park and Harrow & Wealdstone).
North of Harrow, I gather that people mostly want Euston, so having that provide the 4tph service requirement, rather than Bakerloo (which can be changed onto easily), makes sense.
Took a look. Glad i did. One line (of commentary) is a particular treasure. And then there is ' deliberately misleading marketing ' ,it alone reaches all parts. Also you did not mention the unmentionable when discussing 'Metroland' for which I am,yours gratefully 👍
The Unmentionable?
Someone I'd rather not mention 👀
Imagine living in a street called „Metropolitan Station Approach“.
Battersea Power Station Station Station Approach (Bus Station) Station bus stop
I can actually; I like the sound of it!
Not only is Watford poorly named, but so were the two Croxley stations, with Croxley on the Met being much closer to Croxley Green itself than the station called Croxley Green at the end of the branch from Watford Junction.
I;m glad you included Watford. I had ancestors that lived there by the name of Carter. It looks like a lovely little town I would like to visit .
Really. Interesting video thanks!
For the Watford FC supporters amongst us, that more recent proposal to connect the Met to Watford Junction would have provided a handy intermediary stop at “Watford Vicarage Road” - the station names have had several variations from those on the map you briefly showed. Alas in its absence travel to the ground by public transport involves a reasonable walk on pretty much any route.
I went to the Watford v Maidstone FA Cup back in the 80s, on a football special train and that's exactly where we got off! I assume that that line wasn't in use then, so it was easier to shunt us up there, right next to the ground than march us from High Street or Junction, with the associated police costs. From memmory (not entirely reliable), the station looked fairly normal (although rather functional) so I assumed that it was regularly used for football specials (I didn't know anything about the Watford rail/Underground situation in tose days). As an aside, sitting right at the top of Watford's (then) big new stand in January was the coldest I have ever been at football - and I once got frozen to the ground at Dagenham!
8.15 that would have been a nice little line and would have been a convenient and well used line.
This probably would have taken a few cars off the road and cleaned up the air just that tiny bit.
Thank you so much for talking about this station of a town I love. Sadly priced out of watford now but used to use this station a lot. Always wondered why the distance. And never knew the pub was a planned station - have to tell my parents. My only issue with with watford station is the toilets; urinals we’re badly designed. Might you think about a feature on Watford Junction? I’ve only used the station once in my life to be honest but it would be great.
Love this station and the mini columns at the front of the station
@2:40, only a couple of days' ago I came across a book detailing what came to be known as Metroland. I might go back and see if it's still there as £3.99 is not a huge stretch after all.
If its the same book I bought in 1999 its a cracking good read.
By Julian Barnes. His first published novel, in fact.
@@philroberts7238: it's not the novel.
@@peterforden5917: when I get the book, I'll let you know.
@@eattherich9215 No, clearly not. I wasn't paying enough attention, I'm afraid.
Wonderful, thank you. 😊
Enjoyed your video and history lesson, 😊
Spent my childhood in Watford, always thought the stations were ridiculous. Incidentally, Wether spoons head office and training office are based in Watford. Ten min walk from Junction station. I did a lot of training there, failed the last one, cash control. Not sad about that now. Didn't really wanna end up managing a pub
Bravo Zulu sir on your videos. I get to see a lot of the surrounding areas of London thru your videos, thank you. Keep up the hard work 😎
Twenty eleven.......two thousand eleven.......really 🤔 🤪 ?! Umm, o k .
If that's what people have, ok they can have it. I've got other things to spend my energy on.
Peace Love & Groovies 😎
It has always struck me as a trifle odd that St Albans, with a population of around 80,000, is classed as a city, simply because they have a cathedral, whereas the neighbouring settlement of Watford, with over 130,000, is just a lowly market town. Though I guess, if it wasn't for the green belt, it'd probably be a London suburb by now.
The voiceover guy is the reason why I watch this stuff 😂 the accent is 💯
Watford Station would probably have been renamed Cassiobury
The Croxley rail link or one of it's variants has been proposed several times, it nearly got the go head this time but then funding that depended on other funding that depended on further other funding didn't happen...
Again from my commuting days, maybe I should make a video about those ? The days were, before the Jubbly line (typo intended) , the Bakerloo used to branch at Baker Street and go off on it's merry way to Watford, or now Watford High Street. The was a station announcer, who sounded like Janet Street Porter, who with great gusto announce "WATFORD TRAIN" change here for Paddington, always a pain in the arse having to chance platforms at Baker Street. In the now day job, I carry out searches for house sales and have to report on the rail scheme for the Croxley Rail link, but to the current incumbent of the Mayor's post having bankrupted TfL, the plug got pulled, and as a result Watford Station was reprieved. I'm pretty sure that someone at either Watford or Three Rivers council told me that I can't remember that Lord so and so owned Cassiobury Park and that like so many other land owners didn't want the railway crossing his land.
Good afternoon everyone.
May you all enjoy an Orwellian video from Mr Hazzard.
Jago! Mate! It’s like you know when it is my bedtime!
Used to go there for the Watford Finescale Extravaganza.
Great video! I’ve been researching the railway around my local area and i’d be interested if you could do a video on Brunel’s “atmospheric pressure” railways into Devon
I suspect if there was a station in town, Watford would have been Croxley, and Croxley would have been Croxley Green.
But wasn't there plans for a huge watford terminus at one point where at Elstree hill roundabout is today (the Esso garage)?
That Wetherspoons used to be a Dixons back in the day, I bought my Amstrad in there, and my mum wouldn't was accosted by someone dressed as a giant weetabix who wouldn't let her out the shop until she bought something (not a joke). Or was it a Wimpy and Dixons was next door?
Funny you should mention the station at Elstree, that’s going to be in a video I’ve had in the works for quite a while. A pox upon the treachery of Weetabix!
Didn't the area around the Esso garage on Elstree Hill, the A41 ? Used to be a bus garage ?
Watford wouldn’t have been Croxley because it’s not even in Croxley - Cassiobury would be a much better name for it since its proximity to the park and the residential Cassiobury estate
@@martyonline1957 Yes, that's where the Aldenham Overhaul Works were, where the Centenary Trading Estate is now.
@@Stubrit the amount of times I've had to type out reports on that development
I really like the architecture of Watford Station, but calling it Watford is a bit of a stretch. Should be called Cassiobury, or Outer Watford, somethong like that.
Watford Grammar Stop.
Whenever I am shown a new part of London in these vidoes, I go to google maps to see how it is there. And imagine myself having grown up in the area. Would be so nice.
As someone who lives in North Watford and have done my entire life I've never once used the station, its miles away from most people and in my opinion almost completely useless. I was so excited about the croxley link but unfortunately there's almost no chance it ever gets built- council is useless and I'm sure covid has killed any chance of TFL wanting to fund it since we aren't in London anyway. Guess I'll have to keep paying £15 a day for my commute just to Euston and back- nevermind the underground. What a joke. Great video though
1 of the many great what if's in history.
From your LeviNZ correspondent, this fine autumn day..... the "railway domestic" style is quite charming and appeals to me. If the little business could remove their otherwise non functional orange awning it would balance the frontal aspect quite nicely.
The density and ..sameness..of so much UK suburban design is quite foreign,,obviously.. to NZ eyes. The Metroland Peak houses shown here have a solid charm of their own.
2022 "2 thousand and twenty two"....there you go ;-)
# ‘On the boulevard of broken dreams, my willpower at it’s lowest ebb, save my soul from sin’.
Don't push your love too far
Your wounds won't leave a scar
Right now is where you are
In a broken dream
Python Lee Jackson featuring an uncredited Rod Stewart as the singer.
Love the current video snippets
'Drinking in Wetherspoons is a truly Orwelian experience' hahaha 😆
I forsook Watford in 1969 but 'The Moon under Water' used to be Grange (for G-Plan furniture) with a large fancy metal 'canopy' suspended over the entrance. It was only a little way up from the High Street LNW station. PS. the earthworks, especially the bridge over the Gade at the southern end of Cassiobury park were extensive and costly. involving much piling. The goods shed at Watford Met. still proclaimed 'Metropolitan and Great Central Railway goods warehouse'. I expect the goods yard has become a car park but that was half a century ago.
There used to be Bakerloo trains to Watford Junction, plus the mainline trains to Euston, which offered a much quicker option to London from the centre of town.
When I lived in South Harrow as a lad in the 1950's - 60's I had no reason to travel to Watford Met. Station being a fair walk from the Watford shops. It was not on a red bus route so I travelled to Harrow and Wealdstone on the 158 bus and took the Bakerloo line to Watford High Street - YES, 1938 stock - lovely little red trains running through the countryside. There was also British Rail brown compartment stock, bigger and noisier, especially the compressors. These were happy times when life was lived at a slower pace and people seemed kinder than they are now.
Truly the the most comfortable generation there ever will be. We had it so good.
I'm told that funding was not available for the extension of the Met to Watford Jct because that was in Hertfordshire, and Mayor Sadiq, whose sole interest in transport seems to be to make journeys by bus as slow and off-putting as possible, wouldn't finance something that might benefit something that was Not London. 🙍 Even though it might have benefitted TfL by encouraging more passengers to use the line.
The Mayor, or at least his spokesperson, gave the petty and parochial 'its not London' reason to the press when pausing the project. While that played well to much of the mayors' audience at City Hall, and played terribly in Watford (and other places beyond the boundary either with or possibly getting TfL-run service), it wasn't the reason it was cancelled.
They found that the disused railway embankment wasn't suitable for putting a railway along anymore, and so the viaduct needed to be much longer. This meant a much higher costs, but the same benefits, and the business case was gone.
@@sihollett Hadn't heard before about the embankment. Had it subsided or something?
@@iankemp1131 probably had subsided - it hadn't really been maintained for some time, when the last train ran in '96, the line was already in a depilated state.
Plus there's a difference between what you need in an embankment for a short EMU running over it infrequently in days when H&S wasn't as strict, and an embankment with long trains running over it 6 times an hour in both directions in this era post-Railtrack and their failings.
E-W Rail is also finding out that they need to do a lot of work on the old track bed there. And Crossrail basically entirely rebuilt the stretch of North London Line they use (part of that is alignment reasons). It's not a specific Croxley branch problem.
@@sihollett Very interesting points. Shows that although we think of cuttings and embankments as pretty solid, we can't rely on them to keep integrity without maintenance. I remember some years ago being booked on a railtour to the Weardale Railway but the little-used connecting link at Bishop Auckland subsided. It was repaired some years later in 2018 and the railtour finally took place.
There is a corner of every Wetherspoons which is forever a dystopian nightmare
I am glad to see this wee tale turn up on your channel, though in truth I expected it would eventually 😎 I remember the new scheme being proposed but realised any progress had screamed to a halt on account of nothing happening for about four years and “Watford” most definitely still being on the map! I was one of those that took a ride on the Croxley Green stub just before it closed and it did strike me then what a half-baked curiosity it was, barely used despite the proximity of the Met line. Was that part of an old proposal? An idea that passed them by? Or maybe they were just fed up with Watford altogether and thought “some other mug can do that”?😂
I am guessing that the proposed link to bridge over the extant roads from Croxley over to the site of the old Croxley Green station was the tipping-point preventative cost that scuppered the proposal, and in any case I guess the success of the current Overground route has at least partly undermined the desired impact such a line through Croxley Green might have made🤔Apparently there were working parties clearing lines etc before the plug was pulled so they must have been fairly serious about it! 🤷🏻♂️
As for the story of the Cassiobury Park, I was of the understanding that one of the reasons the council got funny about it was because they only got the land from the previous ownership on the condition that a ruddy great railway didn’t go through it. I don’t know if that is one of the stories you heard but I seem to recall there was something about that in some book or other I once read back in the midsts of time when I was less senile 🙄
Thanks old stick, great mini-telly as ever 👍🍻🍀
When arriving at Watford Junction by train the announcements say "change here for the Underground" which is probably the biggest stretch of walking distance anywhere!
Perhaps they mean for the Overground and then the Underground, via Harrow & Wealdstone
@@AndreiTupolev no they literally say "change here for the Underground" and it's over a mile walk!
Careful with those Wetherspoon burns; that's a fire hazzard.
You given great service to this expatriate in reminding him why he is one. As usual. :)
Interesting video mostly about ( in my view ) my favourite pub on the rare occasions I visit Watford. I mean, of course, The Moon Under Water pub!
It's disappointing that the line wasn't extended to the High Street. If they'd managed to include a bar one could have had a near Orwellian Wetherspoons experience before departure and upon arrival when travelling to Baker Street.
It's unfortunate that TFL didn't see it as an investment in capacity - however it was Sadiq Khan that blocked it as it didn't benefit London (or so he thought).
@@hairyairey I'm probably wrong, but I thought that his decision followed on from Hertfordshire County Council deciding that they were no longer willing to contribute to the Link, and if Herts CC won't/can't fund public transport works in their county, why should TfL who are after all funded by London's taxpayers? Something along those lines, anyway.
@@atraindriver no, TFL are not just funded by London's taxpayers they run services well outside London. The Wikipedia page on the croxley rail link says the Mayor blocked it. With a reference
@@hairyairey I said I was probably wrong, and so I was :)
Where they run doesn't necessarily represent where their funding comes from, though; they cover various routes outside London for historic reasons.
@@atraindriver Just look at all the tube lines that finish outside London. All of that is income for TFL including the Metropolitan line. I really cannot understand them not doing it. Diversion routes for rail lines are much needed. Any issue between Watford Junction and Euston can be diverted down the Metropolitan line.
Now it occurs that I have never been to Watford, rather only to play golf somewhere in its countryside but I have partook of Weatherspoons in several locales, the most distant from London being York. I need to track my Weatherspoons now and also up my train ridership to greater London destinations to keep up with the video explorations!
I was a student at the nearby boys 'grammar' school while the Croxley rail link was an active proposal, needless to say it wasn't popular.
I went there too , 1984-1991 “Trog” Turner was the headmaster . We used to buy individual cigarettes in the little shop at the station after flogging our meal tickets 😄
Very interesting. I've done Watford High Street and Watford Jn on the overground on the return leg of a trip from Staines to Milton Keynes, but I haven't yet done Watford because I usually get the Zones 1-6 travelcard which of course aren't valid out in the outer reaches of the Met.
Tbh I've still got all of the Watford DC line to do aside from Watford Jn, Watford High Street, Bushey, Wembley Central, and Willesden Jn, and all the stops north of Baker St on both Bakerloo and Met lines (I'm counting visiting the stations on overground separately from national rail for this line (which tbh would only then include Euston and Harrow & Wealdstone. I include stations I've done on overground as part of the national rail set, but I can't count stations towards the overground count if I've only done them with other operators (Virgin Trains for Euston and LNWR for Harrow & Wealdstone in this case), and counting visiting them on the bakerloo as separate too, like I'll need to do with the Met and Chiltern joint stops (Harrow on the Hill, and RIckmansworth northwards).
I wonder what my best option for tickets for station hopping in zones 7-9 would be. Maybe driving to Amersham and getting a travelcard from there , or I could drive to Aylesbury, do all stops Chiltern and Met down to Marylebone and back up via the Chiltern Mainline (although that's quite a few stops and I doubt the stopping frequency would allow such a thing within one day. I also have to do the curve to Bicester Village, and up to Lapworth and across to Stratford (not including Leamington Spa or Banbury) to complete the Chiltern network)
I believe that pub was the first ever 'Spoons, and so the first of several in the group with that name. In the early days of the group standard urban and suburban pubs were in steep decline. Watford was a brewing town, turning out, by then, only dire keg beer, and Lord Moon of the Mall brought a genuine new broom to a dying institution, and real draught ale which was increasingly scarce anywhere, particularly around London which is where his early pubs were.