I forget to mention one basic core benefit of swapping is that you can finish all in just 3-4 mins. It might require a sustained power output of 2,000KW for equivalent time if charging, which is barely possible for comtemporary human technology.
One thing in this video I did not yet think about: That the swapping station can feed the "regular" chargers which are mounted right next to it and provide cheap power, if the swap station has charged the batteries at times when power was cheap. The longer I think about Battery Swap, the greater I think it is... Thanks for this video.
Yes this co-working of adjusting grid peak loads were planned and succeeded multiple times and the power swap stations have been profiting already. I heard that this co-working could be more profitable towards EU grid system as its more mature in terms of detailed adjustments. Let's just wait for that progress, overall I believe the swap stations in EU are far not enough to realize that.
Ciao , grazie per il tuo video di recensione reale . Io vivo in Italia e da qualche hanno ho potuto seguire NIO solo dal loro sito web ed blog aziendale . E una cosa fra tutte ha attirato la mia attenzione il suo sistema innovativo di scambio batteria , che lo trovo una idea geniale ! . Guardando i video , leggendo recensioni ho trovato veramente utile ed sostenibile il tutto oltre alla velocità di scambio batterie . Inoltre non ci devi piu' pensare alla batteria in quanto fa parte del servizio di stazione di rifornimento . Faccio un esempio reale di adesso , io che ho la mia auto a carburante diesel o benzina devo andare comunque in una stazione di rifornimento carburante , ora se io avessi una auto elettrica (magari NIO !! Onvo o altro modello di NIO) andrei comunque in una stazione di rifornimento solo che invece di inserire energia elettrica attraverso la spina , scambio tutta la batteria e sarei piu' contento perché primo viene sempre controllata dal sistema NIO , sarebbe quindi sicura e verificata , non dovrei piu' preoccupami del tempo e quindi del suo degrado . Inoltre supponiamo che anche qui in Italia o in Europa decidono di poter in futuro poter installare la tecnologia di auto come NIO e supponiamo che la revisione di due anni dell'auto come normativa metta anche il controllo della batteria e se poi non va bene ? Quindi meglio la soluzione scambio batteria di Nio . Inoltre immagino che le batterie vengano caricate con energia per esempio a pannelli fotovoltaici o comunque sostenibile ed inoltre se una stazione ha energia non utilizzata quella di essere immessa in rete se per esempio quel giorno ci sono pochi scambi di batteria , quindi è la vedo come una idea stupenda e complimenti al Teams di NIO per la sua tecnologia , per le sue auto e la sua mission e vision . Grazie per il tuo video , mi sono iscritto anche io
Thank you very much for your comment and time spent on my content. I can't write Italian well so pardon me for expressing my gratitude here in English. It appears that you understand quite well about the NIO fundamentls via study, I am very glad and I hope you could own and enjoy one of NIO vehicles, welcome to the new world.
The question that never gets answered by those videos is the logistics behind all this (I have to try and find some more videos on the subject though). 1. Let's say that a charging station contains 20 batteries (as you said in the video) ... if 21 users come one after another to swap batteries, the last one will basically get the first battery that was swapped (4 min/charge x 20 users) 1h20 minutes ago. That means that the swapping station must make sure that it can charge a battery at least to 80% in that time. For a 100 kWh battery, assuming 20% charge for the previous user, it's an average of around 50kW (which would still be a DC charge ... but much more friendly to the battery I agree). 2. On motorways, during summer holidays, you'd need at least 6 of those side by side to cope with the needs (assuming users are well behaved and optimize their stop). There you are starting to have an insane number of batteries all in the same location, which could decide thieves to come and steal them. I think that having chargers that can give 250 kW is largely enough. If your car can keep this speed till 80% like some new ones currently do, you have a quick enough 10-80% (50 kWh every 12 minutes). And while it's charging, you can do something else, you don't have to stay in your car and/or wait for a swapping station to get free. Fortunately, you can still fast charge even with a swap-able battery. Nevertheless, if swapping can bring a standardized format to batteries, then it's all the better.
1. Is no problem, 50kW average charge is lower than most middle class EVs output these days. 2. Not thinking about thieves, but the logistics. Must be insane. Overall its a race between the infrastructures, charging vs swapping, and also battery tech. If batteries will charge 10-80 in 10 minutes and you have them everywhere, while swapping stations arent available everywhere, why should people swap? Especially when it gets crowded. I also see drawbacks in innovation and functionality: you have to support older vehicles for a longer time, therefore accepting possible bad Design flaws from the beginning. What happens when batteries get lighter or heavier? Suspension wont work with zo much difference and still allow full capacity for persons and baggage.
Im probably not as well informed as you about this subject but i would like to share some points with you. Please feel free to correct me where im wrong: 1- from my understanding when we buy a new car from Nio, we dont own the battery, but still it costs as much as a comparable car with the battery price included. So, no savings there. 2- we have to pay the subscrition for the battery (the price i found was about 165€/month on europe). That means in 8 years (the battery warranty time in any other brand) we spent almost 16000€ (about the price of 2 batteries). 3- this stations are very expensive and from what i ve seen only swaps one car at the time. If you need to scale up you have to build another station? The cost for station i found (probably outdated) was $600.000.
Hi, thanks for bringing up your doubts here. 1. I don't know how you define the comparable cars in EU region, but I'd suggest you touch and try the car on road by yourself. Many other freatures like the very important NIO service is excellent as one of the only kind (No idea how they perfom in EU). For instance, right now I'd still prefer an EC6 over a Macan EV if I want a new purchase. 2. I'll share you from the perspective of CN domestic market, people calculated for about 6 years, namely if you plan to use the vehicle over 6 years, then it's suggested to purchase the battery altogether with the car, then you'll just need to spend for later swaps but no subscription fees of the battery. I'd suggest you to conversate with your local agent for details as different regions vary. 3. Due to scale effect the construction cost of each station has brought down to 2 Mil RMB (300K USD), but NIO keeps adding new stuff and features inside with a goal of shorter time and better service, this could make it a bit more expensive again, but ultimately it's about the scale effect that reduces the average cost.
I liked the comparison. However, one thing missing is the numerical aspect. How do the costs compare when considering fast charging versus battery swapping (local to you)?
Thank you, the fact is that the overall expense of swapping is roughly the same as the charging, occasionally lower. I see someone else commented about this before, I'll make a video for detailed demostration next week.
On paper battery swapping makes sense and solves much of EVs recharging problems, however, for so many reasons battery swapping is never going to catch on. EV suppliers have enough problem agreeing on a standard re-charging format (plug, handshake, throughput) they are never going to agree to a universal battery format. For many of the newer EVs, cell-to-body technology is used where the battery cells are seamlessly installed into a car’s structure, reducing weight and less space. If there was ever a window of opportunity for swapping batteries, it is rapidly closing, growing a rapid recharging infrastructure is far easier to roll out and upgrade than battery swapping stations. Battery swap stations will only ever work at scale and there are simply not enough cars that support battery swapping. Scandinavian countries already have the best charging infrastructure globally and without state support and legislation, battery swap is going to remain niche, and eventually become the Betamax to VHS.
Hi, the power stations are able to store and manage different types/formats of batteries; the cost of constructing a power station is down to similar as ultrafast chargers due to scale effect. Indeed I agree that the swapping solution will not be the only/best option for most parts of the world, at least for now.
Hertz originally announced in 2021 that it would invest in 100,000 Teslas, but reversed course earlier this year due to low demand Unreliability Hertz's EV fleet, which is primarily made up of Teslas, has been unreliable Higher costs EVs are more expensive than gas-powered vehicles and have higher repair costs Got that also
I forget to mention one basic core benefit of swapping is that you can finish all in just 3-4 mins. It might require a sustained power output of 2,000KW for equivalent time if charging, which is barely possible for comtemporary human technology.
One thing in this video I did not yet think about: That the swapping station can feed the "regular" chargers which are mounted right next to it and provide cheap power, if the swap station has charged the batteries at times when power was cheap. The longer I think about Battery Swap, the greater I think it is... Thanks for this video.
Yes this co-working of adjusting grid peak loads were planned and succeeded multiple times and the power swap stations have been profiting already. I heard that this co-working could be more profitable towards EU grid system as its more mature in terms of detailed adjustments. Let's just wait for that progress, overall I believe the swap stations in EU are far not enough to realize that.
Excellent content. Please keep it up. Subscribed.
Sure thing : )
Thanks for knowledge from real user.
🙏🏼
Ciao , grazie per il tuo video di recensione reale . Io vivo in Italia e da qualche hanno ho potuto seguire NIO solo dal loro sito web ed blog aziendale . E una cosa fra tutte ha attirato la mia attenzione il suo sistema innovativo di scambio batteria , che lo trovo una idea geniale ! . Guardando i video , leggendo recensioni ho trovato veramente utile ed sostenibile il tutto oltre alla velocità di scambio batterie . Inoltre non ci devi piu' pensare alla batteria in quanto fa parte del servizio di stazione di rifornimento . Faccio un esempio reale di adesso , io che ho la mia auto a carburante diesel o benzina devo andare comunque in una stazione di rifornimento carburante , ora se io avessi una auto elettrica (magari NIO !! Onvo o altro modello di NIO) andrei comunque in una stazione di rifornimento solo che invece di inserire energia elettrica attraverso la spina , scambio tutta la batteria e sarei piu' contento perché primo viene sempre controllata dal sistema NIO , sarebbe quindi sicura e verificata , non dovrei piu' preoccupami del tempo e quindi del suo degrado . Inoltre supponiamo che anche qui in Italia o in Europa decidono di poter in futuro poter installare la tecnologia di auto come NIO e supponiamo che la revisione di due anni dell'auto come normativa metta anche il controllo della batteria e se poi non va bene ? Quindi meglio la soluzione scambio batteria di Nio . Inoltre immagino che le batterie vengano caricate con energia per esempio a pannelli fotovoltaici o comunque sostenibile ed inoltre se una stazione ha energia non utilizzata quella di essere immessa in rete se per esempio quel giorno ci sono pochi scambi di batteria , quindi è la vedo come una idea stupenda e complimenti al Teams di NIO per la sua tecnologia , per le sue auto e la sua mission e vision . Grazie per il tuo video , mi sono iscritto anche io
Thank you very much for your comment and time spent on my content. I can't write Italian well so pardon me for expressing my gratitude here in English. It appears that you understand quite well about the NIO fundamentls via study, I am very glad and I hope you could own and enjoy one of NIO vehicles, welcome to the new world.
@@ransyoutube Grazie per la tua risposta ed i video 📹 molto interessanti di Nio . Complimenti Ciao ( mi spiace so poco o niente lingua Inglese )
The question that never gets answered by those videos is the logistics behind all this (I have to try and find some more videos on the subject though).
1. Let's say that a charging station contains 20 batteries (as you said in the video) ... if 21 users come one after another to swap batteries, the last one will basically get the first battery that was swapped (4 min/charge x 20 users) 1h20 minutes ago. That means that the swapping station must make sure that it can charge a battery at least to 80% in that time. For a 100 kWh battery, assuming 20% charge for the previous user, it's an average of around 50kW (which would still be a DC charge ... but much more friendly to the battery I agree).
2. On motorways, during summer holidays, you'd need at least 6 of those side by side to cope with the needs (assuming users are well behaved and optimize their stop). There you are starting to have an insane number of batteries all in the same location, which could decide thieves to come and steal them.
I think that having chargers that can give 250 kW is largely enough. If your car can keep this speed till 80% like some new ones currently do, you have a quick enough 10-80% (50 kWh every 12 minutes). And while it's charging, you can do something else, you don't have to stay in your car and/or wait for a swapping station to get free. Fortunately, you can still fast charge even with a swap-able battery.
Nevertheless, if swapping can bring a standardized format to batteries, then it's all the better.
1. Is no problem, 50kW average charge is lower than most middle class EVs output these days.
2. Not thinking about thieves, but the logistics. Must be insane.
Overall its a race between the infrastructures, charging vs swapping, and also battery tech.
If batteries will charge 10-80 in 10 minutes and you have them everywhere, while swapping stations arent available everywhere, why should people swap? Especially when it gets crowded.
I also see drawbacks in innovation and functionality: you have to support older vehicles for a longer time, therefore accepting possible bad Design flaws from the beginning. What happens when batteries get lighter or heavier? Suspension wont work with zo much difference and still allow full capacity for persons and baggage.
Im probably not as well informed as you about this subject but i would like to share some points with you. Please feel free to correct me where im wrong:
1- from my understanding when we buy a new car from Nio, we dont own the battery, but still it costs as much as a comparable car with the battery price included. So, no savings there.
2- we have to pay the subscrition for the battery (the price i found was about 165€/month on europe). That means in 8 years (the battery warranty time in any other brand) we spent almost 16000€ (about the price of 2 batteries).
3- this stations are very expensive and from what i ve seen only swaps one car at the time. If you need to scale up you have to build another station? The cost for station i found (probably outdated) was $600.000.
Hi, thanks for bringing up your doubts here.
1. I don't know how you define the comparable cars in EU region, but I'd suggest you touch and try the car on road by yourself. Many other freatures like the very important NIO service is excellent as one of the only kind (No idea how they perfom in EU). For instance, right now I'd still prefer an EC6 over a Macan EV if I want a new purchase.
2. I'll share you from the perspective of CN domestic market, people calculated for about 6 years, namely if you plan to use the vehicle over 6 years, then it's suggested to purchase the battery altogether with the car, then you'll just need to spend for later swaps but no subscription fees of the battery. I'd suggest you to conversate with your local agent for details as different regions vary.
3. Due to scale effect the construction cost of each station has brought down to 2 Mil RMB (300K USD), but NIO keeps adding new stuff and features inside with a goal of shorter time and better service, this could make it a bit more expensive again, but ultimately it's about the scale effect that reduces the average cost.
Nice video. What do you think about Huawei's comments on Swapping?
Thanks, I believe that was responded by the NIO VP Shen Fei.
I liked the comparison. However, one thing missing is the numerical aspect. How do the costs compare when considering fast charging versus battery swapping (local to you)?
Thank you, the fact is that the overall expense of swapping is roughly the same as the charging, occasionally lower. I see someone else commented about this before, I'll make a video for detailed demostration next week.
On paper battery swapping makes sense and solves much of EVs recharging problems, however, for so many reasons battery swapping is never going to catch on.
EV suppliers have enough problem agreeing on a standard re-charging format (plug, handshake, throughput) they are never going to agree to a universal battery format.
For many of the newer EVs, cell-to-body technology is used where the battery cells are seamlessly installed into a car’s structure, reducing weight and less space.
If there was ever a window of opportunity for swapping batteries, it is rapidly closing, growing a rapid recharging infrastructure is far easier to roll out and upgrade than battery swapping stations.
Battery swap stations will only ever work at scale and there are simply not enough cars that support battery swapping. Scandinavian countries already have the best charging infrastructure globally and without state support and legislation, battery swap is going to remain niche, and eventually become the Betamax to VHS.
Hi, the power stations are able to store and manage different types/formats of batteries; the cost of constructing a power station is down to similar as ultrafast chargers due to scale effect. Indeed I agree that the swapping solution will not be the only/best option for most parts of the world, at least for now.
Yes, I think the same. With ever-improving battery technology, the arguments for swapping batteries are diminishing and will eventually disappear.
Wait till you try to resell a non battery swap car.
Hertz originally announced in 2021 that it would invest in 100,000 Teslas, but reversed course earlier this year due to low demand
Unreliability
Hertz's EV fleet, which is primarily made up of Teslas, has been unreliable
Higher costs
EVs are more expensive than gas-powered vehicles and have higher repair costs
Got that also
I assume that most expenses come from the battery. That’s why they would consider withdraw the battery out as separate asset.
The used NIO EVs here in local market are really well sold via NIO app as they are best value for money.