A lot of comments here based in ignorance. I worked for Openreach until recently and without working for them you wouldn't understand the pressures placed on engineers to get the job done. This particular job had been sent back multiple times by different engineers about the difficulties of the job but management kept repinning the job to engineers without any changes to the job or addressing the issues. It's very easy to say the engineer should have done a risk assessment but at the end of the day if you were there you might have come to the same conclusion as he did and who in this world can honestly say they've never chanced it.
Ex BT also, your comment is 100% accurate, unfortunately targets being met at any cost is more important than health and safety. Full and proper training for engineers / new recruits drastically reduced compared to the past. A sad loss to life never the less
No, there is no excuse for you yourself behaving in a dangerous manner. Everyone has personal responsibility, and largely common sense dictates what is sensible or not. The same way you wouldn't jump off a cliff, or in front of a bus, etc etc. Well most people, but there are those who walk among us. Well, until they don't. Sad, but true. What this means for Openreach or other employers, is they need to be able to sack people more easily if they're prone to doing stupid stuff. They are clearly a huge liability.
the biggest issue is the 'automated' job handling, many times I (CSE then Frames) and other engineers have sent jobs back with copious notes, only to find on getting the job back (again) that those notes are missing, and can only be seen by accessing CSS.
Re Openreach and the guilty verdict. Did the engineer perform a risk assessment before he used a hammer to throw a line across a fast flowing river.? Every day in life, most of perform a risk assessment either in a working environment or crossing the road. Whilst lack of training had a bearing on the engineer working beside water and the risks involved, I don't think Openreach should be 100% guilty.
He wasn't an engineer. He was a technician. An engineer wouldn't do anything so silly. At the end of the day, people have to apply commonsense and consider the risks involved and not do stupid or dangerous things.
Where was the common sense from the engineer and colleagues to call their supervisor for further advise and should not have even attempted a repair if they don't have a risk assessment or even training on suspending cables over water🤷♂🤷♂🤷♂🤷♂
The law requires a company trained Health and safety officer carry out a risk assessment before and work is carried. The technician was not trained in health and safety.
@@robertburrows6612 Commonsense says he should know a river in flood and fast flowing is dangerous. I have had zero training in Health and Safety but even I know that.
Sympathy to his family - but do not people realise that when these big companies are fined, it simply means that the consumer will end up paying. The Directors should be the ones fined, not the company. Anonymous fines do not do anything for anyone -= fine people, not anonymous unnamed groups.
Openreach have reduced the suitable essential training for Technicians working in the field under pressure from BT Group to cut costs and speed up delivery to the point where there is a very significant Health & Safety risk and should be heavily fined for every single instance like this
100% accurate.. Meeting targets at any cost is to the fore, the engineers deserve better support from their management however saw the rapid decline in that over the years.
If you don't realise a fast flowing river which is in flood, with higher than usual level, is dangerous, then you were not mature enough to leave secondary school. Blunt, but accurate.
@@ElliottHurst Wrong. You consider it heartless because somebody died. But the fact is, I don't believe there is an adult alive that doesn't realise that fast flowing water is dangerous, and I don't believe that any adult when in close proximity to fast using water doesn't have reservations about doing what they are doing. If they have reservations then that means they are aware of the danger. The mistake you are making is linking my post about common sense to the fact someone died. You need to separate the two. You can't address the problem if you try to silence any reasonable debate on the matter by claiming it is heartless Openreach is being criticised because they did not provide training. However, you, I and everyone else knows, that commonsense is relevant here. What is commonsense? The dictionary defines it as: _the basic level of practical knowledge and judgement we all need to help us live in a reasonable and safe way_ . Isn't that exactly what we are talking about here? I think it is. Training can only go so far. Openreach technicians, in the course of their jobs, will encounter all manner of different scenarios, a very large number of different scenarios. Just think where the telecomma cables run. Across rivers, through ditches, up mountains, by the side of roads, across railway lines, underground, over ground and on and on. Weather conditions vary massively from a normal summers day, to blistering heat at 38°C, to winter, sub zero temperatures, ice, snow, rain, fog, even thunderstorms pose a risk. Training can cover some scenarios but it can't cover everything. Commonsense has an important part to play.
Great news weekly as always Joe. Condolences to the o pen reach engineers family and friends. All these deaths in the industry seem to be getting more frequent . Sad times indeed .
I don't think these kind of incidents are becoming more common. In years gone by, incidents like this would have just been seen as unfortunate accidents, & an occupational hazard that comes with the job. The H&S landscape has changed out of all recognition in the last few decades, making incidents like this quite rare.
@@alanjewell9550well this is the third in as many weeks that Joe has reported on. And there has a few over the past year. So yes I think they becoming more frequent.
@@Dog-whisperer7494 No, you're just hearing about them more. It's a busier world, with more information available. Even more reason though that such incidents should be fewer, but sadly common sense and self preservation is just a thing of the past.
Boy that first death sounds awful. That guy should have never been in such a wild and dangerous situation. Someone taking such a risk only shows the pressure the company puts on workers.
on the subject of over loaded vans....... it is much cheaper to do so than using say a 4.5GVW van with 6 or 8 weekly checks, taco and driving cards. or look at it this way £300 fine, if you get caught say every 10 years then its £30 a year you do the maths.
@@efixx wait this is scripted? ooo while i have your attention... I sent this to SWA... Your armoured cable glands come with a banjo (earthing tag). A fellow electrician and i have been having a heated discussion about whether such tags are needed on a threaded cable entry to a galvanised round conduit box (AKA besa box) which comes with an earth terminal. I see no way of using one without compromising the IP rating of the enclosure. I hope you can clarify for me Kindest reagrds, Martin
We run a competition every week whatever the news, but if you watch carefully you'll notice we never insert challenge words into sensitive stories about loss or injury to respect the people involved and their family.
A lot of comments here based in ignorance. I worked for Openreach until recently and without working for them you wouldn't understand the pressures placed on engineers to get the job done. This particular job had been sent back multiple times by different engineers about the difficulties of the job but management kept repinning the job to engineers without any changes to the job or addressing the issues. It's very easy to say the engineer should have done a risk assessment but at the end of the day if you were there you might have come to the same conclusion as he did and who in this world can honestly say they've never chanced it.
Ex BT also, your comment is 100% accurate, unfortunately targets being met at any cost is more important than health and safety. Full and proper training for engineers / new recruits drastically reduced compared to the past. A sad loss to life never the less
No, there is no excuse for you yourself behaving in a dangerous manner. Everyone has personal responsibility, and largely common sense dictates what is sensible or not.
The same way you wouldn't jump off a cliff, or in front of a bus, etc etc. Well most people, but there are those who walk among us. Well, until they don't. Sad, but true.
What this means for Openreach or other employers, is they need to be able to sack people more easily if they're prone to doing stupid stuff. They are clearly a huge liability.
@@Del1ng Do you need training to tell you not to jump in a river ?
the biggest issue is the 'automated' job handling, many times I (CSE then Frames) and other engineers have sent jobs back with copious notes, only to find on getting the job back (again) that those notes are missing, and can only be seen by accessing CSS.
@@kathrynwhitby9799 but you don't need notes to tell you to not go into rivers
3:39 don't share pics of your tools or van 8:28 Send us pics of your kit and van.
Yur, that thought did cross my mind as I was recording... 😬
@@MakeItWithJim I was a bit slow liking this, I had to go and get my Megger in from the van first.
@@GuyChapman Can you send a picture?!
Re Openreach and the guilty verdict. Did the engineer perform a risk assessment before he used a hammer to throw a line across a fast flowing river.? Every day in life, most of perform a risk assessment either in a working environment or crossing the road. Whilst lack of training had a bearing on the engineer working beside water and the risks involved, I don't think Openreach should be 100% guilty.
He wasn't an engineer. He was a technician. An engineer wouldn't do anything so silly.
At the end of the day, people have to apply commonsense and consider the risks involved and not do stupid or dangerous things.
Yes common sense.. indeed, applies to all of us...even the engineers ...
Where was the common sense from the engineer and colleagues to call their supervisor for further advise and should not have even attempted a repair if they don't have a risk assessment or even training on suspending cables over water🤷♂🤷♂🤷♂🤷♂
The law requires a company trained Health and safety officer carry out a risk assessment before and work is carried. The technician was not trained in health and safety.
@@robertburrows6612 Commonsense says he should know a river in flood and fast flowing is dangerous.
I have had zero training in Health and Safety but even I know that.
Common sense isn’t so common neither.
Sympathy to his family - but do not people realise that when these big companies are fined, it simply means that the consumer will end up paying. The Directors should be the ones fined, not the company.
Anonymous fines do not do anything for anyone -= fine people, not anonymous unnamed groups.
Openreach have reduced the suitable essential training for Technicians working in the field under pressure from BT Group to cut costs and speed up delivery to the point where there is a very significant Health & Safety risk and should be heavily fined for every single instance like this
100% accurate.. Meeting targets at any cost is to the fore, the engineers deserve better support from their management however saw the rapid decline in that over the years.
What training do you need to tell you not to go in rivers ? That's like training not to jump off the roof of a building.
@@Del1ng very good point about the management as some teams have a new Field Manager now every few months not good
If you don't realise a fast flowing river which is in flood, with higher than usual level, is dangerous, then you were not mature enough to leave secondary school.
Blunt, but accurate.
Not secondary school, primary school.
This is a pretty blunt and heartless thing to say. If you are to suggest you have never taken a calculated risk at work then, you may as well go home.
@@ElliottHurst It's a simple truth.
@@ElliottHurst Wrong. You consider it heartless because somebody died.
But the fact is, I don't believe there is an adult alive that doesn't realise that fast flowing water is dangerous, and I don't believe that any adult when in close proximity to fast using water doesn't have reservations about doing what they are doing. If they have reservations then that means they are aware of the danger.
The mistake you are making is linking my post about common sense to the fact someone died. You need to separate the two. You can't address the problem if you try to silence any reasonable debate on the matter by claiming it is heartless
Openreach is being criticised because they did not provide training. However, you, I and everyone else knows, that commonsense is relevant here. What is commonsense?
The dictionary defines it as:
_the basic level of practical knowledge and judgement we all need to help us live in a reasonable and safe way_ .
Isn't that exactly what we are talking about here? I think it is.
Training can only go so far. Openreach technicians, in the course of their jobs, will encounter all manner of different scenarios, a very large number of different scenarios. Just think where the telecomma cables run.
Across rivers, through ditches, up mountains, by the side of roads, across railway lines, underground, over ground and on and on. Weather conditions vary massively from a normal summers day, to blistering heat at 38°C, to winter, sub zero temperatures, ice, snow, rain, fog, even thunderstorms pose a risk. Training can cover some scenarios but it can't cover everything.
Commonsense has an important part to play.
Nonsense. You talk completely out of ignorance. Just add more insult to injury.
Common sense ...im afraid _ some people need to be told ....dont put your hand in a fire. ...or they,ll do it ,,ffs use your brains
Great news weekly as always Joe. Condolences to the o pen reach engineers family and friends. All these deaths in the industry seem to be getting more frequent . Sad times indeed .
I don't think these kind of incidents are becoming more common.
In years gone by, incidents like this would have just been seen as unfortunate accidents, & an occupational hazard that comes with the job. The H&S landscape has changed out of all recognition in the last few decades, making incidents like this quite rare.
@@alanjewell9550well this is the third in as many weeks that Joe has reported on. And there has a few over the past year. So yes I think they becoming more frequent.
@@Dog-whisperer7494 No, you're just hearing about them more. It's a busier world, with more information available. Even more reason though that such incidents should be fewer, but sadly common sense and self preservation is just a thing of the past.
Boy that first death sounds awful. That guy should have never been in such a wild and dangerous situation. Someone taking such a risk only shows the pressure the company puts on workers.
Kawabunga and Motzarella
Really stuck out like a sore thumb that.
You can't fix stupid......
on the subject of over loaded vans....... it is much cheaper to do so than using say a 4.5GVW van with 6 or 8 weekly checks, taco and driving cards. or look at it this way £300 fine, if you get caught say every 10 years then its £30 a year you do the maths.
Kawabunga and Mozzarella
Hope the family get the £ but still dreadful. Sorry to hear this.
Joe, one question... who challenges you with these words? is it gaz
No, it's usually our scriptwriter Ray, sometimes I'll challenge myself with a word if I don't like the one I've been given for some reason.
@@efixx wait this is scripted? ooo while i have your attention... I sent this to SWA...
Your armoured cable glands come with a banjo (earthing tag). A fellow electrician and i have been having a heated discussion about whether such tags are needed on a threaded cable entry to a galvanised round conduit box (AKA besa box) which comes with an earth terminal. I see no way of using one without compromising the IP rating of the enclosure. I hope you can clarify for me
Kindest reagrds, Martin
I think I know the answer. What did they come back with? 🤔
@@efixx They haven't got back to me :(
'Cowabunga' and 'mozzarella'.
Surely...
Kawabunga and mozzarella
Any positives ?? Almost as negative as the bbc !
Bit insensitive having a competition considering the seriousness of the subject matter.
We run a competition every week whatever the news, but if you watch carefully you'll notice we never insert challenge words into sensitive stories about loss or injury to respect the people involved and their family.
Mozzarella and jam
your not allowed to work near water, been that way for over 3 years
It's got to be Cowabunga and Mozzarella.
Cwabunga mozzarella
Cowabunga mozzarella?
Kowabbunga Motzarella
Cowabunga, Mozzarella.
Karabunga and mozzarella
Kawabonga & mozzarella
Cowabunga, mozzerella
Cowabunga and mozzarella
Has to be cowabunger and motzerella. Gread vid as always
Cowabunga and Mozzarella
_Circumferential_ and _Cowabunga?_ 🔁🐮😇
Sounds like a newly opened Network Rail station! 🚈🇬🇧🙃
Cowabunga & Mozarella 😁
Cowabunga & mozzarella
Cowabunga & Mozzarella.....
Cowabunga & mozzarella 🤔
Kawabunga and Mozzarella (...on Master 'Joe' Splinter's pizza!!! 🍕)
Nice reference from my youth there Mark! 😂
Cowabunga and mozzarellaj
Cowabunga and mozzarella.
Cowabunga & mozzarella 😊
Mozzarella, cowabunga
Mozzarella and pizza
Cowabunga/mozzarella
cowabunga and mozzarella
Cowabunga and nibble
Kawabunga and Mozzarella
Kawabunga and mozzarella
Cowabunga and Mozzarella
Cowabunga & Mozzarella
Cowabunga & mozzarella
Mozzarella, cowabunga
Kawabunga and Mozzarella
Cowabunga and mozzarella
Good guesses, listen to next week's show to see if you're right. 😃
Cowabunga and mozzarella
Good guesses, listen to next week's show to see if you're right! 😃
Cowabunga and mozzarella
Cowabunga and mozzarella
Cowabunga and mozzarella
Cowabunga and mozzarella
Cowabunga and mozzarella
Cowabunga and mozzarella
Cowabunga & mozzarella
Cowabunga and Mozzarella
Cowabunga and Mozzarella
Cowabunga and mozzarella
OR are one of the worst I have ever dealt with