Unstabilized Aircraft approach - Explained!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
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In Todays episode I will dig deep into Aircraft energy states, unstabilized approaches and why they happen. We will talk about descent planning, dangerous shortcuts as well as how pilots can loose hearing if they get too far down the "stress cone".
I will also, towards the end of the video, discuss a case study where an unstabilized approach led to a real crash so stay tuned to the end!
I hope you will enjoy todays episode and that you will consider subscribing to my channel. It would be an honor to have you with me!
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I want to send a huge "Thank You" to the channels featured in todays episode. Please use the following links to check out the full versions of the videos:
NTSBgov (Crash during unstabilized approach Empire Airlines F8284)
• Crash During Unstabili...
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is it me or there's a plane 15:22 coming at high speed
from the right side of the screen and crossing the path of these
landing planes?? played at low speed x.25, it looks like a fighter
jet..
What is your dog looking at?
wow , I had no idea about false glideslopes. Good insights. Are these in the sim?
Couldn't find any video explained this, but can you explain about remaining fuel in the aircraft tank? Is they flushed to empty then they fill new fuel, or just add it as much as needed for the next flight?
Thank's in advance!
Re supporting the channel; are there T-shirts for females. I can’t wear the thrust comment in South London, guys will get the wrong idea. But I LOVE the graphic.
"You can not use flaps at any given speed"
bruh, I use my flaps at any speed in Microsoft Flight Simulator and it always work for me. I also turn of my engines to save fuel on the way down.
Mentour, you got some tricks to learn, my friend
pro-FSX tip: fly inverted with full flaps and the cabin doors open, gives maximum drag.
I start my descend with a b737 with gear down, engines-off, full flaps, full speed-break, full rudder input for slip maneuver, and s-turns.
You guys don't use thrust reversers to help slow down from an altitude drop? Those work great, you don't need to wait for touchdown like the book says.
Jørgen Ramdahl there are limitations in actual world flying. In simulator sittting at home you may do whatever you want. Those tricks doesn’t work in real world.
Indrojit Bhattacharya r/woooosh
When taking flying lessons, when I was 16, my flight instructor first demonstrated and then repeatedly emphasized the go-around:
"The safest maneuver you can ever make".
On the other hand there are incidents like that Cirrus SR20 crash in houston that killed a few people that happened because the ATC kept telling her to go around many times in favour of getting larger jets down and she ended up fatigued, getting progressively less precise and eventually losing control, stalling and falling on to a parking lot. There's a limit and sometimes going around can become unsafe, especially if you're tired after a long flight and have done it several times already.
I remember…..touch and go, touch and go, touch and go. Made me sick lol.
Dissipating energy as you cannot destroy energy. Absolutely fantastic videos as found out more about aviation industry watching your channel from anything else. ❤️✈️
Petter, if Patxi gets any more stabilized he's going to be comatose, lol!🤣🤣
Oh, now that's funny!
i cannot contentrate to the content due to cute putty pilot
@@cintula82 Patxi is a fun distraction, though.😁
Patxi is contemplating demonstrating an unstabilized descent at the end of the video.
LOL!!!
I love how, between Mentour Pilot and Blancolirio, I get to learn about things like a stable approach as it is explained in the context of an incident like this.
When taking flying lessons, when I was 16, my flight instructor first demonstrated and then repeatedly emphasized the go-around:
"The safest maneuver you can ever make".
Good Stuff! Spread the word and hammer it home! Juan.
I really like to think that mr. Mentour just prevented an air disaster in the future, with some aspiring/training pilots taking his many advices and then one of them coming handy in a questionable situation they encounter...
11:00 Excellent points about the stress cone blocking off new stimulus, like alarms, as you put all your attention into fixing your current problem. You can get into a position where you can not handle any new information. Declare GO AROUND! to calm down get stabilized and try again. The aircraft must be stabilized and so must the pilots as well.
Great explanation. Exactly what happened in the Pakistan International Airlines crash in Karachi just about a month ago. Airbus A 320 crashed into.a residential neighborhood killing 97 people.
Great video. I’m a glider pilot and know that since I don’t have the opportunity for a go-around a stabilized approach is critical for a safe landing.
Petter, another beautifully explained Lesson!
Sorry if this gets long, but I lost my Dad in 2012, and I've had nobody to "Nerd out" with about Aircraft since then...
My Dad and I are both Retired US Air Force...
I was an E-6, Loadmaster on the C-5B and C-17, but spent a lot of time in the Cockpit, because of my love of Flight. I'm also a light Civilian Pilot.
Those Aircraft didn't have to placate Passengers, just the Laws of Physics!
So what you talked about here was very relevant to large Cargo Aircraft.
Now my DAD. He was the Hot Pilot! He's flown some incredible and significant Aircraft. I'll just mention two, as they exemplify the point I'm about to make...
Starting with the U-2, and finishing with the superlative SR-71 Blackbird!!
NEITHER Plane could even READ the Laws of Physics - much less follow them! 😳
The U-2 had the narrowest Terminal Velocity Band at Altitude. But Landing is the discussion here. This Bird was overly Aerodynamically Efficient when Landing. It would frequently "float" up to 7 metres over the Runway, and often had to be FORCED down. Even as slow as 65 knots!
The Guys often pulled the Drag Chute - 3 metres above the Runway!!!
Now the HABU (SR-71!) She was Aerodynamically Efficient around 1950 KNOTS and above 80,000ft!
Landing was a whole different Animal. Kissing the Tarmac BELOW 215 Knots, meant you've already CRASHED! She was the most beautiful Aircraft, but was essentially a large Boulder with 2 giant Engines! The P&W J58 Turbo/Ramjet Engines produced over 135,000lbs of Thrust.
.... And most People don't realise that she's BIG too. Roughly the same size as a B737-300, that carried two People!
STABILIZED Landing?? Yeah, neither was much good at that.
Now one of my Dad's Friends, flew the F-15 Eagle.
Those Guys MADE their own Stabilization!! 😂 If he was up to 6000ft above Glide Slope on Final.... HE could descend at 15,000ft per minute, and stick the Landing!!
Ain't Fighter Jets COOL?
If you read this, thanks for putting up with me. I really admire what you do here on this Channel. I really HOPE that you don't represent a dying breed... Intuitive, Professional, "Seat-Of-The-Pants" Pilots are going away, being replaced with marginally Trained, get everything out of a Book, Computer Monitoring Devices!
I've seen on too many occasions, CVR evidence of at least one member of the Crew exclaiming "WHAT'S THE AIRCRAFT DOING NOW?" Gives me a sinking feeling.
When I stuff myself into a cramped Airliner - I always HOPE that there's someone like you up at the pointy end.
Good video on that topic. Even for smaller airplanes. Just recently I could experience the difference between stabilized and unstabilized approach and the resulting landing. Flying a C152 came in to an airfield, too high too fast. I realized it when I caught myself pushing for the runway threshold. Decided for a goaround, second time went like a charm. A few weeks later came in to another airfield, got into the same situation, but for some reason - maybe feeling overconfident, maybe just simply getthereytis - I decided to push on, to force her down. There was nothing stabilized anymore - I can definitely confirm that stress level is really spiking all the way down. Not helping at all. The airplane felt “uncooperative”. Of course, I was trying to make her do things that did not fit her energy state! Touchdown was barely controlled and just lucky that type of aircraft can take so much. After that I realized that this was a real life “what if” experience. Two high energy approaches, one aborted and the other showed me “what would it had looked like if” I hadn't aborted.
You are always few steps ahead! Great video 👍 Awesome Channel 🤘
What I find really interesting is the result of some calculations I have done. An aircraft flying at 450 knots at FL390 has to lose around 95% of its energy to be flying at 160 knots at 1000 ft. Although I am not a pilot this clearly illustrates the importance of proper descent planning to manage the energy.
And idling almost all the way to expend that energy against drag. Climbing uses extra energy to accumulate as potential energy of high altitude.
Very good explanation of how the rabbit hole becomes a funnel to disaster particularly the focus cone where no brainer warnings are not even heard and why a stabilised approach is key to a good and safe arrival.
I really appreciate that you chose an incident for the case study that makes the point, but wasn't anywhere near as tragic as it could have been.
I earned my instrument rating over 35 years ago. Amazing, and encouraging, how much even the vocabulary has changed. I don't recall ever hearing the term "stabilized approach" back then.
According to the Australian paper work I have I got my instrument rating in 1906 LONG before I got my Private Pilot Rating (They did fix that unfortunately - Flew Airline for 27 years) :o)
You probably didn't hear about destroying energy either... Did you?
@@motomono Not in those terms, but understanding energy management was important before my first flight lesson.
5:08 6:36 it tends to be more like "we can get you in now with [insert shortcut here] or expect 1 hr hold pattern, irate passengers (late and missed all connections, airline forks out heavy for hotel vouchers and 3rd-party rebooks), then a call from the company regarding your career" The kind of external stresses that affect pilot decision making, for the worse.
Yes, that is the pressure. I've found the only way to handle that is to have a hard attitude of not taking the bait no matter what retaliation may come.
LOL, I told the company to "put their mothers and kids on the plane" if they really think it is okay to squeeze the safety margins.
Christopher B. Jack great job Capt
The Air Ontario Flight 1363 is a great example of that... As it was said, "There was a lot of other hands on those throttles, pushing those throttles forward."
@@CMDRSweeper One or two of those hands also interfered with KLM Cpt. van Zanten's throttles in the Tenerife disaster. In that case getting stranded vs. the career impact (losing license) due to exhaustion of duty limits (they were getting close and the diversion had them almost expired by the time the Gran Canaria airport reopened).
Very helpful video. Maybe a video about manual braking would be good, you could talk about the problems hot brakes can cause, how the systems work, along with other things. Thanks for the video!
You and Juan Browne (blancolirio channel) have really opened my eyes about the balancing that has to go on to set up an approach and ride it to the runaway. I had thought of it as a simple thing: fly down to the runway, pull power and flare. Now I would say it is much more like a bird perching on a twig. Proud to become a patron (signed up with Juan a couple days ago).
I think of it as a teenager coming home at 3am in a beat-up jalopy, turning off the engine and coasting in. Can't use the engine or they'll hear you - can't use the brakes or they'll hear them squealing. Have to get the timing just right so you make it into the driveway, but not so fast that you smack into the garage door.
It normally is, however sometimes you get a late descent, change of runway, a shortcut from a longer arrival routing etc. leaving you with less miles to lose altitude. You have to manage it with techniques such as speed, speedbrakes, early gear extension, flaps, or simply ask for vectoring to get more miles.
Great instructive video thank you Petter, us as an atpl students are glad to see such videos and hope to see more like this. Greetings from 🇹🇷
I like the accident review and simulation. Very interesting.
I love your videos because you always have awesome explanations and examples, and your presentation speed is spot on. Thank you.
That was very informative. The behavioural aspects are paramount. I know a 747 pilot in his 60s who has been flying them for the majority of his career (3rd most hours in the company) and he is anal about this stuff. Not stabilized - well we'll just go around for the scenery.
Exactly! Good man!
The case study at the end is AWESOME!!! Very informative, helps to practice the acquired knowledge.
I was a passenger on an A320 flight into Heathrow when there was a medical emergency over Belgium. It was impressive how quickly the pilots took the plane from cruise altitude to touchdown in Brussels. Perhaps 15 or 20 minutes?
I was watching out the window when the pilots began a rapid descent with a sudden reduction in thrust, nose pitch down, and speed brakes out. As no announcement had been made, it was startling. Eventually the pilots did announce that a medical emergency would require landing in Brussels.
Once on the ground, someone who was not moving was put in a wheelchair and taken off the plane, and their luggage was offloaded. We proceeded to an uneventful landing at Heathrow. Never did find out what happened to the passenger.
Patxi takes a very stabilized apporoach!!!
Thanks.. Good explanation.
PIA in Karachi was NOT an unstable approach, it was a dive bomber’s dive, (with a somewhat similar outcome.)
Didn't even extend the wheels, nor reported any jam in wheels... How did they even pass flight school?
I wonder if the PIA report will say something about Covid-19 being a contributing factor, as in the plane being light, and the crew getting fairly direct routing. A big question will be how they got themselves so high on the approach.
@@fltof2
>how they got themselves so high on the approach
hookah?
Hell yeah it was.
Love how you say “stabilized “. Stab-a-lized . :-) And love your show. You have good content and good context. I love it when you and Juan get together
Mentour, thanks for uploading man.
Love your videos. So much information that you cant get else where
Thank you
Love the case studies! Thanks Mentour!
"There's the runway! Quick, we can't let it escape!"
7:36: *Oooh, if you do this you're going to be really really high.*
Dutch people, walking out of a "coffee shop": Ya, that's the plan.
Coincidentally, in Russian "plan" has also been a slang for certain herb.
The energy conversion way of thinking is great
Phyde4ux made a question about flight PIA 8303. I had the same question in another vlog and the answer was no. That crash's most PROBABLE CAUSE was that, when descending with engines idling, the aircraft was most of the time between 200 and 250kts, therefore they were able to deploy the landing gears. The warning signs were for extended flaps in higher speed than the ones determined by Airbus. That's why they did not pay attention to them, they knew what they meant. I believe they had the landing gears down and locked before approaching the runway. Until very close to landing, the flying pilot was calm and had not requested emergency landing due to mechanical problems. When he noticed he would miss the threshold, he called internally "go around" and the co-pilot retracted flaps and landing gears too soon. Due to the stress of steep descending and all the adjustment for the sudden decision, they did not communicated that to ATC immediately. Only after the aircraft had stricken the runway and gained altitude, he communicate problems with landing gear. Notice that the warning sounds stopped when he tells that to ATC. That's because the flaps were retracted by the co-pilot. Due to the speed and very low altitude, without flaps, the aircraft lost lift momentarily until the engines recovered thrust. That's why ATC witnessed an attempt on belly landing and asked the pilot if he was going to do it again. Another crucial point to consider is that a major international airport such as London, Zurich, JFK, Atlanta, ATC would never allow this unstable approach and would never ask if the captain was "comfortable". How that theses appeals to my Mentour Pilot's colleagues?
8:30 Physics teacher here. Drag does not "destroy" energy; it just moves your kinetic energy to the air around you instead and also converts some of the kinetic energy to heat. The result is a reduction of speed. I have heard fighter pilots on documentaries mention trading altitude (gravitational potential energy) for speed (kinetic energy) and in air combat, Speed is Life. In non-combat aviation, that is not such an important detail, but when coming in to land, you have to lose (not destroy) your gravitational potential energy while not picking up too much speed.
So the energy process is: chemical potential energy (fuel + oxygen in the air) is used to produce thrust, thus gaining kinetic energy which is traded off to gain altitude, thus gaining gravitational potential energy, taking you to cruising altitude and speed. To land, the gravitational potential energy is converted to kinetic energy (you speed up as you descend), but the pilots reduce thrust to allow drag to slow you down (transfer kinetic energy of the aircraft to kinetic energy of the air and heat). As you slow down, you can start using drag-inducing flaps to increase the drag energy transfer to the air. The flaps also produce extra lift at low speed by converting some horizontal kinetic energy to vertical (upward) kinetic energy, but you are descending faster than the flaps are lifting, so you keep going down). So by balancing the transformation of gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy and the translation of aircraft kinetic energy to air kinetic energy (and heat), the aircraft can be safely brought down on the runway threshold, where it can convert almost all of the rest of its kinetic energy to air kinetic energy (by thrust reversers, as well as flaps and other drag inducing mechanisms) and heat (brakes, and increased drag) in order to slow down to taxi speeds.
And just think, birds do all of this naturally.
@Peter L Yup, I stand corrected, even though I am sitting right now. The flaps are converting momentum, not kinetic energy, well not in a way that stays with the aircraft. The flaps are providing increased lift with increased drag, and if the aircraft is too fast, there is too much drag on the flaps and thus too much force and the flaps could be damaged. The additional lift provided by the flaps is balanced with the rest of the flight controls to keep the aircraft going in a general down direction during approach for landing, while at the same time allowing more of the kinetic energy and momentum of the aircraft to be transferred to the surrounding air.
I prefer the term "dissipate energy". When you have energy you don't want, kinetic or potential, you don't care where it goes just as long as you are not carrying it any longer! You can't destroy it, you just dissipate it into your surroundings.
In the open context of a plane the energy is destroyed. It came in as kerosene and now it's gone. But I can understand that lawyers (including physics teachers) disagree.
Agree, as a science student, the phase "destroy energy" annoy me
It’s awesome that a pilot can say nah I don’t like this, let’s go around” for any reason, even maybe no reason - maybe just a gut feeling that something wasn’t right with the approach, and there is a no-blame policy. I wonder if the same is true of all airlines.
It should be.
Mentour Pilot I do wonder if gut feelings count as part of the no-blame policy. Seems to me that our gut feeling - our instinct, is what keeps us alive. It’s hardwired into us from thousands of generations of evolution. It feels like that if you have a gut feeling about something, even if everything on your instrumentation seems ok, then you might not want to chance it with Ansett (Aussie joke there!), because your gut feeling is telling you something. Your gut feeling could keep *hundreds* of people alive here, surely?
If your gut feeling is telling you that maybe it’s not a great idea to go down a strange alley at night - then I think you should damn well listen to it, because your brain is trying to tell you something that the monkey-see-monkey-do side of your brain may not be aware of.
Smart way to report given the interest with 8303. Thanks Mentour !
I learn sooooo much from all your videos 🙏🏼👍🏼 Thank you so much.
Great to hear! Feel free to share them with your friends!
It would be great if you could do a podcast about the PL101 crushing at Smolensk. It would be great to hear the airline pilot opinion about that accident.
Great idea. I would be very curious to listen.
Great explanation as always! Thank you!
Very nice, thanks for comprehensive information.
I just noticed the red and green pillows on the left and right of the couch - just like an airplane! Very clever.
Hard to believe an experienced crew could get it so wrong
Quite informative. Good job!
Very informative video. Thank you.
Thank You my friend!
Loved the case study - more of these please. :)
nicely explained, thanks
Great channel! And watching your dog is very relaxing!
Thanks for the very Informative video.
Very nice video, Captain.
Well said Peter knowing your configuration thank you
I'm addicted to your videos great job keep it up big fan from algeria
So good video! I learned very much!!!
Once again, I learnt a lot from this video. Simply excellent. Thank you very much.
Thanks for putting efforts in making these videos.
Thanks for that. Always a pleasure to listen to you. Stay safe. Regards. Mick🇬🇧
Thank you! Glad you liked it!
Many thanks Mentour! Your advice about stabilised approaches helped me improve my rc model plane landings a lot! :)
Could you do a video on how you choose TO
and landing flaps ?
Fantastic video thank you
Loved this video!
now THATS amazing content. More content like this captain learned so much!
Thank you! Glad you liked it!
Great explanation. Brings back memories on my first flight with a new Mooney. Slippery
lovely work Petter ! ty for that :D
Very informative in explaining how pilots can get into such situations.
Excellent vid. I'm a bit surprised that those two pilots were not fired and/or sued.
Would that have helped anyone? It will only ruin a couple of otherwise good pilots' careers
how does not one NOT have an absolutely fantastic day after this? Amazing content as always.
Excellent content. Please keep making these vids.
Atc guys are just brilliant. Salute
Great explanation
Thank you for explaining. Give the dog a hug from me
Excellent videos! As a non-aviator, they are endlessly informative. I would consider refraining from saying “destroying energy”. The First Law of Thermodynamics is; Energy can neither be created or destroyed, only altered in form. Keep up the great work.
Petter I’m a LONG time follower who’s only a simple AVGeek. My site kept me from going military and commercial BUT I keep up with you. Thank you for letting me liv vicariously through you and understanding everything you are explaining. This is an AH HA common sense yet DUH “Why didn’t I get it “ moment. It all makes sense now! Thank you. I would love to shake your hand and jump seat with you one day. At the least Patreon but digging the c19 life in California. BTW sincerely like the “Positive Attitude” vs. “Bad Attitude” shirts! I’ll buy one when I get back to work!! You are so inspirational. All the best to you and your family. Hope you get back in the sky soon!! Peace:
So happy that you like it my friend! You never know when we might cross paths.
Take care my friend and keep a positive attitude!
Very informative.
In the NTSB video, as soon as either pilots says "go around" you go around, period.
Or if you're Canadian Airlines you just ignore ATC until you're on the ground. Or just continue approach to a taxiway.
That was the best video you ever done , and I always wonder about go around power and you said there is approach thrust!
Thank you!
Wow I feel privileged you took time to reply me , you know I’ve had many thoughts about this go around and how does the engine spool up as you say and now you explain really well , you will be a great teacher in aviation, Andrew Australia ,
Seen it described as a JU87 Bombing Run for the PIA Airbus. Very apt! !
Petter/Mentour,
Great video and explanation - thank you!
God bless
Paul (in MA USA)
Fantastic video, learned a ton. Maybe your best yet!
Great content !
Great video, as always! :D Greetings from Wroclaw! :D
I love the case studies
I love this series.
Excellent!!
Your explanation is impeccable. In the case of PIA 8303 there was not an offer from Karachi's ATC for a short cut because they warned the pilot that he was not under SOP and then later ATC commanded him to turn 180°, giving the pilot a chance to circle once more, slowing down speed and lowering his altitude. But the pilot ignored that, unfortunately.
I learned a lot today about the descent until landing operation both in nominal and degraded mode and the role of both the captain and the copilot during approach until landing.
I completed the video with going to Wikipedia in order to understand what the ILS is and how it is implemented around the landing strip.
Your videos are great!
I love your dog.
Love you copilot sleeping in the background! So cute!
These videos deserve more likes and views
Descents ... Oh, the stories I could tell about my student pilot days ...
Like the time I was on a student solo on the downwind leg in the pattern for landing and the tower asked me if I could make a short approach. My response? _"I'll try."_ ATC: _"Disregard. I'll call your base."_ (IIRC, the tower was trying to get me in ahead of another aircraft on a straight in approach.)
Yes, now I know that my response should have been _"unable"._ I had done a few short approaches with my instructor, but wasn't really proficient, especially since my CFII's preferred method was to perform a slip to lose altitude.
This is the best and most sophisticated video about this topic I found by far! I'm very impressed and showing you my full respect for your work. Thank you.
(Maybe Pakistan [and Indonesia and some more countries] should hire you as an official speaker and officer for airline safety and education...)
excellent
Another good video,thx for the good info as Always,belgian greetings.
Dude if the video is 25 minutes long and you commented after 3 minutes, what informations are you talking about, the ones that you didn't even hear?
@@ale.venosiniwanker, i have watched more of his vids,and i Always found it good info for me!and i have watched the vid 1 time before i replied! wtf
Commenting for Al, thanks for the video bud!
It's easier to explain why you went around, then to explain why you didn't.
There's a stronger version of this saying.
It's better to explain why you went around, then for others to find out why you didn't.
I totally agree with this Statement
Zweistein - Sounds like, “If you’re explaining why you did a “go-around”, you’re alive. If someone is trying to figure out why you didn’t, you’re dead.
than
Yup. Describing your decisions is easier (& better for everyone) than many people analysing the CVR
Thanks!
One either plans or one doesn’t. “Pre-plan” is a tautology.
Fascinating to learn just how much thinking and planning has to go into an approach. I just assumed you would get your shortcut, drop altitude, slow down and pop the aircraft onto the ground. Had no idea there were so many additional factors to consider.
Oh, ice only skimmed the surface of all decisions that needs to be taken yet.
@thomasm1964 or rather a morphemic pleonasm
Speaking of trying to lose energy and how it can be difficult at times, that reminds me of situation I read about. A military aircraft needed to refuel from a tanker out over the ocean somewhere. I don't remember the exact details but they were having trouble making enough speed so after the tanker had done everything else to slow down, the pilots In the thirsty aircraft were shocked to see the landing gear come out of the bottom of the tanker
8:50 Dear Mentour, energy doesn't get destroyed, it transforms in to a different form of energy.
You know what he means.
Yes, that’s true
He meant dissipated.