ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2019
- ClearPath Servo Upgrade! To the Original PM727MCNC. Time to upgrade from those old Steppers and Add some new life into the mill. I have tried to be as detailed as possible to the point of being informative but not boring. I will try to keep the videos around the 15 minute mark. Please feel free to ask questions and leave comments
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Follow the PM-727M CNC Build Here: • PM 727M CNC Project
Follow My G0602 Build Here: • Project G0602 CNC conv...
Folllow My X2 Conversion here: • X2 Mini-Mill CNC Conve...
ClearPath Servo's Used:
X and Y Axis CPM-SDSK-3421S-RLN: www.teknic.com/model-info/CPM...
Z Axis CPM-SDSK-3432s-RLN: www.teknic.com/model-info/CPM...
Power supply 72V
www.automationtechnologiesinc...
Disclaimer. I am not a professional. My videos are intended to
document my progress . I express no warranty as to the accuracy reliability or safety of the information provided here. By using any of the information provided in this video you acknowledge that I am not responsible or liable for injury or damage to property. Electricity is Dangerous proceed with caution follow all local regulations in your area. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
This is awesome. I love how quiet they are!
Yes Very quiet
Awesome. I want some clearpath servos. They are awesome
I say any Servo is better than none. Both Clearpath and DMM each have there advantages.
Awsome job Sam!!!! I'm gonna order some of these for my G0704
They make replacing the Steppers Simple.
hell yeah....great video Sam!
Thank you!
Really nice, clearpath is the way to go.
SERVO's Are the Way to go that's for sure But unfortunately they are 3 times the cost of Steppers so there will always be a place for Steppers.
Obviously you are going further and further. Keep going.
Yes Progress!
well presented
thank you!
Pretty cool Sam!
Yes it is!
Glad to see up to speed!!! LOL!!!
I'm slow about everything including replying to this comment! LOL
Thanks Sam
Your Welcome!
The math is not so bad for sizing servos, if you look up the fanuc alpha servo technical docs (or any motion control equipment documents for that matter) it shows step by step how to do it with examples. These motors are incredibly strong but the strength is traded off with speed as you see here. It’s enlightening to have a look at approximate cutting forces/torques and acceleration/speed profiles. It will change your perspective about how you select motors and will help achieve a better result (often with less cost). Just my two cents. My guess is that you will be extra happy with your Z motor if you ever start drilling 1” holes in stainless 😁. Always enjoy your videos and love seeing things come together. Cheers!
Yes you are correct and For my machine Clearpath recommended the SDSK3411s for X and Y and SDSK3421s for the Z I just went up a size on each. I wanted to be sure to have enough torque. I also knew I would be adding weight to the Head with the PDB and Belt Drive. servo's are Very powerful indeed. They make you rethink how to correctly size. ClearPath Enginners can help you correctly size the Servos for your machine in a simulator.
Nice work as always Sam. You may need a brake on that Z axis.
Thanks Yes I may
nice job !! im going with the DMM but ill be following !
I will be installing the DMM on my linear rail conversion.
@@CNC4XR7 DMM's are going on my bridgeport
Nice job Sam. It would be interesting to see how much time you can gain with servos to machine a part.
Of course the more rapids in your code the more time you will Gain. Being a Hobbyist speed is not always necessary. However ruining parts due to missing steps etc is really hard on the guy in his garage pumping out a few pieces a day.
I expect for me I will lower cycle times by 8% just have to see.
Always nice watching your videos and how well you explain things. Im in the middle of doing my conversion and was contemplating going with the clear paths or closed loop steppers to save a little money. Which also have an encoder attached. Would I still need to use a driver with the closed loop stepper or would I just wire it directly to the BOB like the clear paths?
The Closed loop steppers have a driver just like the conventional Steppers so they would be wired just as the original wiring. they just have the additional closed loop feedback cable.
Thanks so much for your videos there a grate help, dip you get the stranded ClearPath or the enhanced version?
Standard with shaft seal
Nice video, very well explained.
Do you have well known good replacement for Kurt mill vise?
I use the 440 from SHARS they are pretty nice and reasonably priced.
Awesome job Sam I've been on the fence between Clearpath and DMM servos on my mill
Well fall Off man either side is a better option than Steppers.
How have these worked out for you?
@@rc-cnc3431
They work well would like a little higher rapids but other than that no issues Rapids at 200ipm.
If your electronics are already set up for DC these are a easy swap.
I could actually go either way. I haven't purchased any drives yet. The only ting I decided on so far is the Centroid Acorn controller. What's the pitch on the ballscrews?
@@rc-cnc3431 I believe Acorn Has options for both DMM And ClearPath. My ball Screw pitch is 5mm. Shaft size on Clearpath are 1/2" DMM 86MDHT which is what I have are 14mm. They are 1hp servos. they are a bit beefier and heavier than the ClearPath.
Hey good video. What happened to the MASSO controller that you were going to use for this conversion?
I still have it and may use it on my linear rail conversion I just have not decided.
How about adding a electromagnetic brake on the Z axis ball screw to stop the droop?
I have taken a look at that the Brake is around $300.
What model ClearPath servo motors did you buy? I have been looking at these for a PM-30mv. I noticed that you are not using their com board for the SC series motors.
I have added the Servo's used in the video description along with the power supply.
Good video. What would the conversion cost in terms of parts required.
I don't know exactly as prices change. I also went with the 55ft cables most can get by with the stock length. that will save you some money. the Powersupply i used is from Automation technologies $200 couplings about $60 the servos you can look up for the latest price but $350 each maybe. say less than $1500.
Hi Sam, great video thanks I found it really helpful. I did have one question, why is it you picked a 1.4kW power supply when you have only about 700W of peak power draw from the 3 servos (about 227W each)? Just curious as I’m sizing my power supply to conduct the same upgrade. Thanks again!
Future plans are Rotary ATC and a 4th axis so 5 total
CNC4XR7 Ah I see thanks, sounds like a good strategy!!
@@michaelbrouckaert9797 0
@@michaelbrouckaert9797 1
Hello Sam. How are the ClearPaths doing on your machine since you've mounted them? Great content you're putting on,thank you for your generosity. Salutations from France.
All good! I did have My Y axis Servo go out however I think some coolant somehow got into the connection. I purchased another and sent the original back and they covered it under warranty.
@@CNC4XR7 Honoured by your quick response Sam. I'm looking for an upgrade for my 6090 router and sent them an email to see what they are counseling me . I'm looking also to closed loop steppers ( price issue for me now 🥺 ) . Looking to eliminate the inconsistency of my machine under Mach3. I admire your work since a few years back and thank you for your generosity on your channel. Be blessed. Salutations from France.
@@raulirimias4810 Hi Raul, I completely understand when it comes to cost. I did recently upgrade to Closed loop on my G0602. I am very happy with them and 1/3 the cost.
no issues so far.
@@CNC4XR7 Thank you Sam. I'm having a few suggestions concerning the Mach3 screen . I took a look at your website and saw the screensets you are proposing. I will contact you through the website.
Those should work out well for you. I look forward to hearing your thoughts after you use them for a while.
My first thought is you can go with the 3421s on all Axis.
I have the PM940 and have the same 3 sizes as you do on your PM727. But with the 940 being bigger and heavier, I think the 3432 would be better for the Z. I haven't built my ball screw mounts yet so I haven't used them yet. With the weight of the Z on the 940, the 3421 might not have enough grunt.
With a rolled ball screw and double nuts, how fast do you think you can run your rapids without excessive heat buildup? I know you are set to around 190-200 with your clearpaths and that seems really good. But if possible, how much more would you want to go before you foresee problems?
Someone mentioned a brake for the Z. I have been looking at the brake option as well. Here is a link to some. I am sure you are already aware. But incase anyone else is interested. www.idicb.com/products/Spring%20Applied%20Brakes/Type%20MPC
My Suggestion would be to contact Clearpath and speak to an Engineer. They will gather some info from you and help you decide the size you will need. I was very cautious with my choices I did not want to be under powered. I used the SDSK 3421s for the Xand Y max around 275 ipm the SDSK 3432s max at 190 IPM
For my machine Clearpath recommended the SDSK3411s for X and Y and SDSK3421s for the Z I just went up a size on each. however rapids are limited.
I would say 300 to 350 is where I would really like to be and I dont think heat will be a issue at those speeds.
Thanks Sam. I already talked with clearpath and being that I am a noobie and they needed info I didn't have, they weren't much help. But the PM940 was once produced in a CNC version so it gave me some insight on what size motors to use. PM used a 640 oz. stepper for the X and Y and a 1200 oz. stepper for the Z. So I bought the 3421s for the X and Y and the 3432s for the Z. All 3 are a fair amount bigger than what came on the PM940CNC version. So I figured I should be good to go. I have the electronics enclosure done and the servos hooked up and running. I still need to buy some ball screws and build the mounts. I am still looking into that but hope to start soon.With these mills having the dovetails and gibbs, how fast do you think one can push the rapids without problems? I know the clearpath won't exceed that but if one wants really fast and reliable rapids, then linear rails are needed like on your new PM727 build.
@@halfstep67 I think you will be fine with your choice
Are you going with a Clearpath power supply or other?
Well since I need a minimum of at least a UR rating I'll be going with ClearPath servos :)
OK I'm not sure what the RU /UR rating has to do with it? UR rating are normally for products that are meant to be used inside electrical cabinets. Like Relays etc. that do not have there own housing.
At any rate I'm sure you will be happy either route.
Did you have nema 34s for all 3 axis' before the swap?
Yes
Never knew these servos needs tuning, does this mean that I would need to buy a branded servo set to get the best performance and precision?
I'm not sure as I have only tested a few brands . but they are all about the same setup.
I wanna know how you built your enclosure
There is a video on that!
silly question, but are those X, Y, Z fuses DC power?
Yes 5 amp fuses
What would you recommend to learn how to wire a cab like that? 😳 Just getting started with my build.
well you can start by watching my video on the PM727M build. but understanding wiring diagrams is a good start.
@@CNC4XR7 Yes, I found and watched that after making the comment. Should have searched first. 🙃
What acceleration are you running your servos at. I have a bridgeport with .2in/rev ball screws and 750w 3000rpm servos and 4:1 belt drive. I am trying to get an idea what max acceleration and cutting feed i can run.
Hi Matt the max speed / Acceleration will be dictated by which model you choose. 2*3000 rpm you can travel @ 600ipm /4 = 150 max rapid /cutting speed. The acceleration will take care of itself in the Auto tune.
@@CNC4XR7 i am just not sure I completely understand these servo motors. For some reason if I set the speed to a maximum of 200ipm it will move that fast, so they can be command to move much faster then the nameplate rpm. Also the acceleration settings make a huge difference. At 5in/s sq the machine is maybe a bit sluggish, if I change the acceleration to 100 in/s sq mt 2500 lb machine shakes Round from the table stopping and starting so fast.
@@mattbentley8958 The commanded speed is that in the Clear-path software or your control software?
from my experience the Motor on my Z axis 3431s has a max rpm of 1040 and will give me a max speed of around 200IPM with 5mm ball-screws. that is all I can get out of it. As far as acceleration you have to find a sweet spot those servos can be gentle or violent as you have found out.
@@CNC4XR7 , I am just changing settings in machv3 motor turning. Haven't messed with the controller or drives which is an Apollo 3 from mach motion.
Price comparison for dmm and clear path...
I think you will find the costs are similar for both systems.
Nice! you wouldn't go down the DMM route again? I just bought two 750w
No not at all, I will be installing my DMM servo's on my linear rail conversion. This upgrade was mainly due to a opportunity to purchase the Clearpath at a discount. It also did not require much effort to modify my control cabinet.
Is that SSR on a heatsink?
Hmmm there is a SSR in the box but it is not on a heat sink No.
buy the crimp tool, $18 on Amazon.
Yes I think that would be a good investment but I still like a soldered connection.
I have the Molex service grade crimpers. They work really well. They run about $60-70. Makes quick work of those pins. When you make a new enclosure plate, are you going to use aviation plugs or Molex connectors? I used aviation connectors, the 16mm. I would probably go with 20mm if I had to do it again. The 8 pins are pretty close together making it harder to solder especially the center pin. 20mm would make it much easier. I already had bought aviation connectors so I used them but I might go with Molex connectors if I ever do another enclosure. That would be an easy way to do it.
@@halfstep67 for this enclosure I will use the moles on my new build most likely aviation.
Is he willing to ship
I'm sure he would at minimum Crate it up. He is in New Hampshire. it has power feed and DRo's and a custom Stand to house the control panel.
Ease of installation won out over the higher torque of the DMM, huh?
Yes and No The original plan was to upgrade to DMM servos they are sitting in a box ready to go. But plans changed when I acquired the 2nd PM727M so rather than upgrading the current original machine I decided to build another the PM727MXL. New Electronics enclosure to house the new DMM servo drives etc. That machine will be a Linear rail Machine to take advantage of the higher rapids the DMM allow.
So my original machine I just wanted to keep running as is ! Until the opportunity to pick up the Clearpath servos happened so therefore the upgrade. They seem to work well no complaints other than i would like a little higher rapids but I think that is partially the servo model not so much the clearpath servo's.
@@CNC4XR7 I've learned so much from your channel! Thank you!
@@Capnmax Your very welcome!
WHAT KIND OF BOARD ARE YOU HOOKING THIS UP TO
Hi Ken I did not change my BOB this is a CNC 4 PC C11gs
Ken Hendricks
Don't type in all caps ---that is regarded on the Internet as SHOUTING !!
I AM A TOOL AND DIE MAKER NOT A TYPIST I AM NOT SHOUTING AND I DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO COMPLY. TOO BUSY