As a Bazaar player, this makes me very happy. 😊 I can dust off my hollowvine deck that was obliterated by bauble. Glad bauble + any hate piece being GGs for Dredge is less of a thing. It was a rough couple of months!
I think I agree with the sentiment in the video. "I wouldn't necessarily restrict these cards, but there are reasonable reasons to do so" I think overall the format will still be very fun and healthy, I'm excited to see how these changes shake out and how the meta adapts.
I agree with restricting Vexing bauble. Main reason is that winning a dice roll with the bauble in hand could mean a win even without playing. Sometimes you have to mull your 2 mox hand because of you losing the dice roll. I think it's good to restrict it.
I will not miss saga gaming. Powerful, low opportunity cost, and linearizing the most diverse decks of the format into either huge creatures or only needing 1 "real" tutor to get into vault/key - the key comes out of a powerful land you want to play anyway for free. Vexing bauble is obviously is restricted if chalice is restricted. It's not great, it's not like being on the play with bauble is often backbreaking for your opponent but why would you need more annoying play/draw cards in vintage? Agree it doesn't matter much though, I never felt that bad about the card. I don't think I'm 100% on board with your take that these cards (mostly saga) had positive impacts on vintage. I'm not sure that the beloved combo decks of vintage getting into huge boards nearly for free when they cannot push through their combo and starting a different minigame that demands very different answers is good, and Im not sure that saga getting shops onto huge threats in a way that can only really be positively interacted with by wasteland or dress down is healthy. Time will tell, I suppose. I agree vintage was in a healthy place with saga and that these restrictions are kind of out of left field but I think we will just see vintage in another healthy place with somewhat less constructs and vaultkeys, which you can decide if that is better based on what your favorite vintage decks are lol. Sorry rambling as I process through this change.
its mostly that saga demands u answer permanents instead of spells on the stack which IMO was a breath of fresh air in a normally combo orientated stack battle space. Note it didnt push those decks out either.
Wow that's an interesting turn for the format. I loved the Saga metagame, which brought (as you said) a very balanced metagame to the table. I personnaly thought it would be Lorien Revealed that would eat the ban hammer, as it was the enabler of Saga for blue decks. People wanted Lurrus Saga to disappear, and they will see Lurrus Wasteland prosper in the new era, imo. Bauble is more anecdotic than anything, it will simply disappear, as it has no role if not played as a 4-of (again, imo, but it might stick in shops as an anti force tool, even if it wasn't that efficient). Will be interesting to see how workshop and MWI will adapt (i suspect MWI to simply disappear), and the impact it will have on dredge/bazaar coming back to the front of the scene. Might see the resurgence of Oath, as it is a decent counter to Lurrus strategies, with or without Saga (not particularly happy about that, Oath is boring).
Overall you have a similar take as me and other Seattle vintage gamers I've talked too. I'm a little more pleased Bauble restriction because it had dumb feel bads, and I do think it continues to see play based on how powerful it's been even as a 1-of to naturally draw in Lurrus control. Very much agreed I'm not sure how Oath pans out. For blue combo, I think you're underrating the improvement to Citadel, I'm expecting much more of that, unfortunately. My biggest question mark is what happens to non-frog control like those Questing Druid / Wren & Six decks. They're cool looking, hopefully they'll see more play.
i think the restricted bauble plays more into winning the dice roll with bauble in hand. opponents are less likely to mull moxen heavy hands with bauble restricted, so the punishment will be even more severe. I can respect the babuble ban and i hope it still sees play in the format
I want to play Red Green and I needed Bauble to be competitive. You’re absolutely right. Now it’s just more of the same bullshit three decks in this format. FOW, Shops, Bazaar. That’s it. So what that someone swaps up a few cards. It’s basically the same.
Wasteland numbers won't go down, but main deck Spreading Seas will be replaced with real Magic cards. As someone that doesn't play Saga at all, all my opponents just had their decks get better. Therefore, I shall now complain on the internet,because that's how we do things in 2024. #UnrestrictSaga
This is a very well-articulated take. Major props for following their logic and decision-making, just not approving. As someone who only spectates older formats, I thought this would be viewed positively. My impression was Saga was this relatively free backup plan that also found the primary plan and Bauble was just antithetical to Vintage as a format. You did a really good job at explaining why that wasn't necessarily the case. I'm excitied to see how everything shakes out in the end.
Restricting urza's saga with shop and bazar not is absurd. Also their explanations contradict each other...."vintage is a format for powerful cards that we want to let them play" this comment is absurd in the context of limiting cards
It's been over three years coming, but my MH2 spoiler season prediction about Urza's Saga getting restricted in Vintage is finally right. Take that, random Reddit thread where no one even really disagreed with me there.
Shit ban philosophy If you wanted to play with old cool cards, just play oldschool and slam your moxen in some Ernham Djinn or 4 color legends deck, or wheel or fortune and gauntlet of might in your kobolds of kher deck... That format is 100% about playing old cards just to play old cards and people often design bad decks with a bunch of old reserve list cards just for the flavor points people do not do this vintage, people in vintage play the most powerful cards to win as fast as possible, there is no flavor or playing old cards like Ali from Cairo just cause it's "cool" they play broken shit and compete for prize money, that's a competitive format. and you shouldn't ban and restrict things in a competitive format simply because it feels bad that these shit players might have to add a nature's claim or krosan grip to their deck to deal with a bauble instead of just cramming in more value engines like bolas citadel... It's wild how bad some vintage players are that they can't play around a 1 drop that legacy players have no problem playing around
The important question now is do we make the 999,999,999 POints reward UNrestrict urza's saga? Also, agree this is probably ok but mostly just an excuse to shake-up the meta. Bauble didn't need to get hit tho.
The saga restriction seems like a move as therapy for the format to reduce the stress all the vintage players were feeling trying to fit saga in their manabases
I actually agree with restricting bauble. The fact that you can empty your hand and then play a bauble is just too powerful. You say it was enabling the more fair decks but let's be honest, there aren't any actual fair decks in magic. PO was playing it, and it's supposed to be symmetrical, but due to the nature of 0 costs, it just wasn't.
it was very bad in jewel and the strong jewel pilots were cutting it. Almost all fow decks were cutting down to 1 bauble for saga. it didnt perform as you listed here
“there aren’t any actual fair decks in magic” is, frankly, a fucking insane take. just because you may not play formats that have them doesn’t mean they don’t exist lol.
I can accept vexing bauble restriction (or even ban) even though it's not that good of a card simply because it can be very unfun in Vintage, like they state. As for Urza's Saga i totally agree... no need for this.
Vintage and legacy arent for playing old cards but ALL the cards and the BEST decks. Restricting something beceause feels bad underpowered counter to overpowered zero cost cards is the height of stupidity. Next legacy will be a casual 4 player singleton format lol
@@IamActuallyLvL1 it's not that your response wasn't 'well-reasoned', it's that you complain. Nobody wants to hear a complainer, and you alongside the other MTG man-children need to come to terms with the reality that your consistently pessimistic attitudes are the reason you don't succeed.
Wotc single handedly buffing Justin by limiting him to only 1 Saga getting wasted off the face of the earth per game
im very happy to not register 4 saga. that card was so bad for me :D
WotC wasn't happy Bosh n Roll won a Black Lotus with T1 Wasteland on Saga and wanted to stop it from happening again.
As a Bazaar player, this makes me very happy. 😊 I can dust off my hollowvine deck that was obliterated by bauble. Glad bauble + any hate piece being GGs for Dredge is less of a thing. It was a rough couple of months!
Ill be so happy to see Bazaar decks in action again 🎉
I think I agree with the sentiment in the video.
"I wouldn't necessarily restrict these cards, but there are reasonable reasons to do so"
I think overall the format will still be very fun and healthy, I'm excited to see how these changes shake out and how the meta adapts.
RIP Saga gaming.
I agree with restricting Vexing bauble.
Main reason is that winning a dice roll with the bauble in hand could mean a win even without playing. Sometimes you have to mull your 2 mox hand because of you losing the dice roll. I think it's good to restrict it.
Not surprised here. The first words out of my mouth when Vexing Bauble was spoiled was "this will be restricted in Vintage".
It wasn’t even that good though
@@trevorlahey9037 its about the principle of the format. it made all the things that made vintage vintage uncastable if you slam this t1
I will not miss saga gaming. Powerful, low opportunity cost, and linearizing the most diverse decks of the format into either huge creatures or only needing 1 "real" tutor to get into vault/key - the key comes out of a powerful land you want to play anyway for free.
Vexing bauble is obviously is restricted if chalice is restricted. It's not great, it's not like being on the play with bauble is often backbreaking for your opponent but why would you need more annoying play/draw cards in vintage? Agree it doesn't matter much though, I never felt that bad about the card.
I don't think I'm 100% on board with your take that these cards (mostly saga) had positive impacts on vintage. I'm not sure that the beloved combo decks of vintage getting into huge boards nearly for free when they cannot push through their combo and starting a different minigame that demands very different answers is good, and Im not sure that saga getting shops onto huge threats in a way that can only really be positively interacted with by wasteland or dress down is healthy. Time will tell, I suppose. I agree vintage was in a healthy place with saga and that these restrictions are kind of out of left field but I think we will just see vintage in another healthy place with somewhat less constructs and vaultkeys, which you can decide if that is better based on what your favorite vintage decks are lol.
Sorry rambling as I process through this change.
its mostly that saga demands u answer permanents instead of spells on the stack which IMO was a breath of fresh air in a normally combo orientated stack battle space. Note it didnt push those decks out either.
Wow that's an interesting turn for the format. I loved the Saga metagame, which brought (as you said) a very balanced metagame to the table. I personnaly thought it would be Lorien Revealed that would eat the ban hammer, as it was the enabler of Saga for blue decks. People wanted Lurrus Saga to disappear, and they will see Lurrus Wasteland prosper in the new era, imo. Bauble is more anecdotic than anything, it will simply disappear, as it has no role if not played as a 4-of (again, imo, but it might stick in shops as an anti force tool, even if it wasn't that efficient). Will be interesting to see how workshop and MWI will adapt (i suspect MWI to simply disappear), and the impact it will have on dredge/bazaar coming back to the front of the scene. Might see the resurgence of Oath, as it is a decent counter to Lurrus strategies, with or without Saga (not particularly happy about that, Oath is boring).
Vexing Bauble getting restricted means that Countervine is playable again. This was a really easy one for WOTC, and nobody will be unhappy about it.
Overall you have a similar take as me and other Seattle vintage gamers I've talked too. I'm a little more pleased Bauble restriction because it had dumb feel bads, and I do think it continues to see play based on how powerful it's been even as a 1-of to naturally draw in Lurrus control.
Very much agreed I'm not sure how Oath pans out. For blue combo, I think you're underrating the improvement to Citadel, I'm expecting much more of that, unfortunately.
My biggest question mark is what happens to non-frog control like those Questing Druid / Wren & Six decks. They're cool looking, hopefully they'll see more play.
Hey thanks for putting this out there right after the announcement!
i think the restricted bauble plays more into winning the dice roll with bauble in hand. opponents are less likely to mull moxen heavy hands with bauble restricted, so the punishment will be even more severe. I can respect the babuble ban and i hope it still sees play in the format
I want to play Red Green and I needed Bauble to be competitive. You’re absolutely right. Now it’s just more of the same bullshit three decks in this format. FOW, Shops, Bazaar. That’s it. So what that someone swaps up a few cards. It’s basically the same.
I'm looking forward to the counter wars over turn 1 forest crop rotation
Restrict Sword of the Ages again NOW Wizards!!!
So i think you nailed it here. i hope that wotc isnt to proude to go back if this turns out badly.
I hope your surgery goes well
I wonder where Sphere shops goes with this change
I just hope this will open up diversity within blue decks and not lead to a Meta dominated by fast combo.
I love these restrictions ! Looking forward to play the format more often know again.
"the mob has won" 😭😭😭😭
Wow you did not lie when you said 5 min. So excited to see this
I’m elated by this b&r to be honest. Hollowvine is back!
I'm not excited that i have to respect bazaar again. But I AM excited that other decks will have less SB slots too.
I love the timelines in the video description, so useful... 😂😂
Totally agree with you on the B&R
copy pasteeeeeeeeeee
We all know you’re gonna do some PO with this change. Do you think the 1-of is worth it in PO still? (Refering to your old monoU list)
probably. i like finding it with vamp vs counters
I mean baubles removal brings back squee decks and beseech can see play again. I think bug might be better now
I don’t think saga getting restricted is a bad thing- it made all your restricted artifacts essentially a 5 of in the deck.
Wow, this Is probably the first time powerful staples have been restricted. How unique.
Wasteland numbers won't go down, but main deck Spreading Seas will be replaced with real Magic cards. As someone that doesn't play Saga at all, all my opponents just had their decks get better. Therefore, I shall now complain on the internet,because that's how we do things in 2024. #UnrestrictSaga
unrestrict spreading seas :(
@@IamActuallyLvL1 super-unrestict. Let me play 8 spreading seas and 8 tide shapers.
This is a very well-articulated take. Major props for following their logic and decision-making, just not approving.
As someone who only spectates older formats, I thought this would be viewed positively. My impression was Saga was this relatively free backup plan that also found the primary plan and Bauble was just antithetical to Vintage as a format. You did a really good job at explaining why that wasn't necessarily the case. I'm excitied to see how everything shakes out in the end.
I was blindsided by these restrictions!
Happy to see Saga get hit. Demoralizing to land a Null Rod against Jewel and them seemingly always see Saga into Ancient Tomb/Academy into lose.
in day 0, i knew saga is not health for vintage :) nice.
Restricting urza's saga with shop and bazar not is absurd. Also their explanations contradict each other...."vintage is a format for powerful cards that we want to let them play" this comment is absurd in the context of limiting cards
It's been over three years coming, but my MH2 spoiler season prediction about Urza's Saga getting restricted in Vintage is finally right. Take that, random Reddit thread where no one even really disagreed with me there.
Saga gaming is dead. Time for new channel point reward
unrestrict saga
i understand why they don’t, but I wish they’d restrict wasteland (and with it, all the busted lands it’s needed to “keep in check”)
Shit ban philosophy
If you wanted to play with old cool cards, just play oldschool and slam your moxen in some Ernham Djinn or 4 color legends deck, or wheel or fortune and gauntlet of might in your kobolds of kher deck...
That format is 100% about playing old cards just to play old cards and people often design bad decks with a bunch of old reserve list cards just for the flavor points people do not do this vintage, people in vintage play the most powerful cards to win as fast as possible, there is no flavor or playing old cards like Ali from Cairo just cause it's "cool" they play broken shit and compete for prize money, that's a competitive format.
and you shouldn't ban and restrict things in a competitive format simply because it feels bad that these shit players might have to add a nature's claim or krosan grip to their deck to deal with a bauble instead of just cramming in more value engines like bolas citadel...
It's wild how bad some vintage players are that they can't play around a 1 drop that legacy players have no problem playing around
Lol, I feel you though
Here for the thumbnail
Masonnnnnnnnnn
I saw Bauble from a mile away. WotC does not like cheap things that stop people from casting moxen in Vintage. Saga is just a broken card, imo.
Is Dress Down dead now?
kinda feels like it? depends on if there is a lurrus based combo deck or a PO deck
Great video!
As the aggro shops player losing 6 slots in my deck make me sadge and angie lol. I need my big dumb constructs
just when shops was strong again :(
Well time to play a lurus frog bowmasters pile. Not sure if I should be esper grixis or bug.
The important question now is do we make the 999,999,999 POints reward UNrestrict urza's saga?
Also, agree this is probably ok but mostly just an excuse to shake-up the meta. Bauble didn't need to get hit tho.
bauble hit was silly but its not really consequential so nbd
Hitting Bauble is easy for WOTC. It's not a beloved card that creates interesting gameplay. It either ruins games or doesn't.
@@IamActuallyLvL1 btw I posted this before I got to the end of the video but good luck on the surgery, hope all is well.
Ugh. Now it’s back to Force of Will decks just dominating again. They should restrict FOW.
The saga restriction seems like a move as therapy for the format to reduce the stress all the vintage players were feeling trying to fit saga in their manabases
something something "Saga gaming" something something "Magic cards"
what knows a lvl1 gamer about vintage? not much i bet
*sighs* Can we PLEASE just fucking get rid of the One Ring already?
I actually agree with restricting bauble. The fact that you can empty your hand and then play a bauble is just too powerful. You say it was enabling the more fair decks but let's be honest, there aren't any actual fair decks in magic. PO was playing it, and it's supposed to be symmetrical, but due to the nature of 0 costs, it just wasn't.
it was very bad in jewel and the strong jewel pilots were cutting it. Almost all fow decks were cutting down to 1 bauble for saga. it didnt perform as you listed here
“there aren’t any actual fair decks in magic” is, frankly, a fucking insane take. just because you may not play formats that have them doesn’t mean they don’t exist lol.
Clearly Jewel just actually runs 4 Sink
should already do that
painnnnnn
@@IamActuallyLvL1 Well yeah but now they've run out of excuses. And the bauble restriction lets them run Golos to find Academy too
big if true
Turns out Saga gaming is busted…
🦎
No more saga gaming, Justin 🤣🤭
god bless
I can accept vexing bauble restriction (or even ban) even though it's not that good of a card simply because it can be very unfun in Vintage, like they state. As for Urza's Saga i totally agree... no need for this.
Finally. Those two cards make the game very dull.
Vintage and legacy arent for playing old cards but ALL the cards and the BEST decks. Restricting something beceause feels bad underpowered counter to overpowered zero cost cards is the height of stupidity. Next legacy will be a casual 4 player singleton format lol
Classic mtg man-child still complaining despite laying a solid argument that these WOTC updates were justified. Crazy
Thanks for watching my video! If thats your take away from this well reasoned response. Yikes!
@@IamActuallyLvL1 it's not that your response wasn't 'well-reasoned', it's that you complain. Nobody wants to hear a complainer, and you alongside the other MTG man-children need to come to terms with the reality that your consistently pessimistic attitudes are the reason you don't succeed.
I dont succeed huh :D
Thanks for boosting my content!
@@IamActuallyLvL1 your facetious, backhanded comments only sullies your reputation and makes you looks like more of an idiot. Take care.
Hope you find happiness, optimism and positivity
there was only ONE THING more meaningless than the NO BANS in standard .... who gives a f about VINTAGE BRO touch some grass XD
thank you for your input we don't care
please returne whence ye came (I assume commander) and rest a while
@@flav_jja i am not sure exactly but i`ll try to handle that language barrier of yours
@@denisdebenis you care enough to spend your time commenting this son ^^
Why are you here?