1:14 "where your family aren't too supportive of a gigantic tower in that setting" :::cough-wife-cough::: We know what you mean Daniel. Boy, do we ever.
For work, I have a Dell 12700H based laptop that I lug back and forth between working at home and at the office. But in both locations I have a docking station and I almost never use the laptop *as a laptop*. So from a business point of view, having a highly portable unit you could take between locations and then plug into a dock and that has lots of (for a SFF machine) CPU grunt makes sense. If the dock also has a GPU for other uses (or games) that's interesting.
I bought a minipc like half a year ago, a 5700U amd one, with 16gb ram and 1tb storage, for like 300$. Replaced it with my 10 year old laptop which i've used as my media station to watch streams, videos, tv-shows and whatnot on my big tv, with some light emulation gaming on the side. One of the best investments i've done in the last 3 years at least.
Sometimes I wonder if his kids are like "Dad's yelling at the computer again to get internet money" when they hear him yappin away for hours everyday. Or when they get old enough to attend the same school and class, kids will be like "I watched your dad on youtube and its sick af"
Yes! I really need to see more of these reviews. I do a lot of travelling and I've actually thought about buying one for gaming, but they can get really expensive so much to the point to where I just give up maybe once the price of Strix point processors start coming down I might pull the trigger. Thanks for the video. Right up my alley.
Got my ~45W mini PC hooked up directly to my router, right next to it. It's my photo backup drop, my development server for home programming projects, etc. I wouldn't use it for gaming, but it's fantastic for what it does and where it quietly sits. Now, if AMD ever releases a scaled-up Steam Deck-style processor for mobile, I'd be very tempted to hook that kind of mini pc up to the tv and play games. For now, I just have a steam deck dock.
The main issue with APUs for gaming right now is memory bandwidth. The GPUs in these mini PCs are as powerful as they can be without choking on dual channel DDR5 memory.
People who rag on mini-PCs need to realize that fundamentally, this product segment is not exactly intended for penny-pinchers, nor is it the holy grail of computing for the ultra-enthusiast. They're laser-focused at just saving space and being somewhat portable to serve as the brains of a dock or be permanently deployed as hospitality devices. I would not buy one because it doesn't cater to my specific needs, but there's absolutely a place for them in the market.
Use them on the tv's. Got a couple of 6900h based minipcs to run entertainment in livingroom and bedrooms, but I'm going to slap an egpu dock on my 780xtx and honestly replace my somewhat more than casual gaming pc. The power consumption difference is staggering
There are many use cases for Mini-PCs, and some of them are incredibly cheap. Technically a Raspberry Pi and similar SBCs are "Mini-PCs", but even in the x86 ecosystem you can get brand new Mini-PCs for $200 or so, using for example an ADL-N N100 CPU. Of course those aren't meant for gaming, but if you just need a system to browse the web, play video, check mails, those are perfectly fine. And many people use those as home-servers, for adblocking, media streaming, smart home control, personal password storage etc... SFF-PC would be the category that tries to do everything a big PC does but in a compact layout
Mini PC's have uses, but most Micro ATX sit under a table, which negates the size issue. The big sell is in VESA mounts behind a screen or as a portable PC with a small KB and mouse. With energy costs being a massive pro.
A note on that UM780XTX-they use slow RAM and can't use XMP due to the requirement of laptop BIOS. In general I'm not impressed by the mini-PCs based on BGA laptop CPUs for this reason (no memory tuning.) With a Ryzen 7 8700G, enabled PBO and tuned 8800 MT/s memory, I can achieve more than double the performance you're getting with that machine. Same "Phoenix" silicon, mind you!
Remodeled basement, poled is a boxed in support beam and he had a custom counter top made to fit the beam to act like a bar table I'm assuming and he probably typically has two bar stoles for there. Just a guess though
Would be cool if you took a look at handhelds+mini PCs and how hard they are CPU bottlenecked when using a combination of Oculink, high TDP and a variety of eGPU solutions, budget-midrange cards in particular would be very interesting. 🙂
..not sure most ppl even know what Oculink is, let alone its capabilities but yeeee this would be an awesome vid by him. It'd get like 27 likes...but still dope lol
Hi, nice video. I have the Beelink PC with the 12900H (you wrote HK in your video but it's only an H) which is also available with the new 285H chips. My Beelink runs with a dock and a 4080 Super Proart from Asus and its performance is really top. The biggest disadvantage I see when playing is the low 1% FPS. Despite GSync, they ruin the fun. The 65 watt TDP is slightly higher than the standard 45 watt. More is not possible because the Beelink only has a 145 watt power supply. Conclusion: As a NAS it is too expensive and inflexible and for gaming the 1% lows are nerfed. But the bottom line is that I paid €500 for the Beelink with dock + €1000 for the 4080 Super and got 32gb 4800mhz RAM and a 1TB Crucial P3 Plus SSD. The performance with the form factor becomes difficult to match.
for what may or may not be a useful frame of reference: the biggest desktop tower computer you can fit in your office / den / bed room / where every you keep your computer is not just not a mini PC. it's actually a microcomputer.
I bought a BMAX mini-PC almost 5 years ago with W-10-pro for $185.00, auto upgraded to W-11pro for free. I've added an NVME drive for storage (used, replaced from another system) and mounted on the back large flat panel screen. Not only does it play streaming media, internet surfing, and stored videos, I can also remote to it accessing/storing/playing media from my phone. Best investment ever. 😀
good piece, this is very good now as ppl think you need the latest and greatest to run new games. And you dont need 300fps for an adventure/rpg game. Fitting a small pc behind your TV is a nice option from a console due to, you know all the extra availability you get from it as well. thx Owen
Been a small form factor enthusiast for about as long as PC's existed. Own and used a bunch of MinisForum APU based systems for low end gaming and currently running an Intel i7 Beast Canyon NUC with a base dual slot 4070 stuffed into it and yes it fits both physically and PSU rating (just). Helps that all it needs is an old school 8pin, hence why I think its the sweet spot of the 40x range. Noise isn't too much of an issue for a lounge gaming PC as not only do you sit a fair distance from it, its noise would also get drowned out by the TV/stereo's audio anyway. Even more so if you position the PC behind the TV etc.
I liked this video a lot. The lengthy introduction was great, wouldn't mind more videos like this! Just can't seem to get used to the color of the walls. Am I the only one? 😂
15:12 Yes, but a mini PC with a Ryzen AI MAX+ 395 which has 40 CUs will not only be able to replace a 4K console, they'll be able to replace a 4K PC. We'll have to wait until Q2 for that.
After so many years of experience on ITX PC's, I decided it's best to stick to the most common type of hardware. I still use an ITX motherboard on a 10~ liter sandwich case though. My GPU is about 33 CM long. This layout requires a riser cable which makes it non-standart, but it's a really effective way of going small. Otherwise your case gets at least 2x bigger and it can still likely NOT offer you 35 CM lenth of GPU support a 10 liter sandwich layout could. Going smaller while still not compromising is only possible in a DIY way with liquid cooling - like the guy who did a 5 liter 4090 build, which isn't really for everyone. My only motivation is taking it on a plane with me, which I never did yet, otherwise it might not worth the hassle if you don't wanna deal with the potential compatibility issues or spend extra.
you SAVED me from getting that ACEMAGIC and not having VRR on my TV... was going to emulate and play older games at 4K ~80ish fps, and not having VRR would have been terrible.... Makes me want to consider eGPU at this point!
I think I have a mini pc addiction lol. To be fair, many of those were sent as review samples so I didn't spend quite as much as you might think for my collection lol
I feel like many people use these mini PCs for TV/media/home server type of PCs which is why they are offered with 16 core processors and most don't contain discrete GPUs. They can swap in 4-16TB storage and they're off to the races with built in graphics being fine for 4K 2D rendering and mAYBe even some light gaming.
I'd be curious about if the 4060 DLSS upscaling to 4K is actually a decent experience, also relative to FSR, because a lot of reviewers I've watched seem suggest that no, not really.
Hi David.. can you compare the 12900h docked with 4070 super to a desktop with at least 7800x3d in 1080 / 1440p? Obviously I think the desktop will win but just to see how it is a "desktop replacement" for smaller footprint
The mini pc i bought had some funky bios that would only let me install a pre approved Windows OS to it that i had to directly download from them.. Impossible to get linux on it. Then the SSD died a week after purchase.. It got returned to amazon and i don't have the ambition to try again.
I don't think I have time for a dedicated video, but you saw the gaming performance here. Overall I like it, although as I mentioned in the video the fans seem a bit loud. Aleo no built in wifi so that would have to be added if you need it.
I remember looking around for them before, but I can't remember if any of them have graphics cards in them. Which ones would you say have one? Btw, I'm not sure if you can remember who, but I do remember being in your old class in the 2019-2020 school year before the lockdown happened.
There's 2 related but distinct categories to consider. The Mini PC, which is a tiny pre-built, typically 2-5 liter capacity, with limited specs and upgrade path, and the Small Form Factor or SFF system which is a fully fledged and customizable PC in a small case, typically 9-20 liter capacity. For comparison, full towers go up to 60 liters. I've been using only SFF for 15 years now. Currently got the popular Cooler Master NR200 case, which is 18 liters, with a 9800X3D and 4080. It can fit 4090 Strix too. Runs cool and quiet and matches any similarly spec'd tower PC. With the exception of extreme overclockers or tempered glass/RGB nuts, I personally don't understand these huge cases people buy, which take up a lot of space and give them nothing. For 90% of users, SFF will work great. They do tend to cost a bit more, though. Mostly around $100 extra for an SFF motherboard.There are some great SFF dedicated TH-cam channels, like Machines & More and Optimum Tech, if anyone is interested in more info.
Ease of use, ease of build, and ease of upgrade. Small time cystom builder here, there is nothing fun or easy about building in SFF its just more tedious, requires alot of patience, and tiny fingers are useful too lol. I would much rather have more space than i need than not enough. Also, you cant really have a high end system in sff without spending about twice as much on components while also sacrificing upgrade paths. It's just not viable for someone who cares about the price/performance ratio. So, theres a variety of reasons but the last one i mentioned is usually the one people care about the most.
@@Gimpy17 I agree about the ease of build and upgrade, but not about doubling the cost. The CPU, GPU, cooler, RAM, display, keyboard, mouse and case costs are the same. The mobo and PSU will indeed cost more, but the overall cost of the system might be 15-20% higher. Thing is, 90% of users are not enthusiasts who upgrade a component every 3 months and overclock to the max. Many users, including those who buy pre-builts and never even pop the case open, are not even aware that SFF exists, and I think would be very happy with a space saving SFF system, if they knew it was an option.
@@guy197 they simply do not. this is not my opinion this is just data from building about 20-30 computers a year for the past 7 years. the overall cost difference from 2 similar builds just this year was about 300 dollars. (mid tower atx to itx sff) SFF is a niche category and it is that way for a multitude of reasons, non being easy to explain other than cost and build process.
I'd argue that laptops are basically a subclass of mini-PC though, laptops falls under most definitions of mini-PC outside of the single note of being desktop only
On your point of mini pc companies' CPU choice: Very often, these lesser known companies get bulk discounted CPUs from AMD/Intel because they're usually the "unwanted" ones, maybe binned down that's not suited for more expensive laptops. Other times, it's a configuration that serves a really common purpose outside of the consumer space or even literally a huge and weirdly-specifically-configured order from a huge client (which solves their problem of producing them at scale cheaply), and they just repackaged some of the extras for direct consumer products. If it's a little off, they may just be contorting the marketing a little bit to convince you to buy something they were already making anyway. This is the same situation for other OEM products.
One of the most exciting things about the supposedly upcoming Playstation and Xbox Handhelds is that devs will have to optimize for these less powerful chips with integrated graphics if they want to enter that market. And I think this market will grow substantially over the next decade.
I got a GEM 12 6900hx for just over $300. That is cheaper than I could have bought the parts. Its fast and runs cool while not being loud. Yes its only a 680m but has occulink and I have been very impressed with its speed and price. It has a few drawbacks as you mentioned but I got it for my wife who has no room for a pc in her office and needs it for work and less for gaming.
I myself don’t use a mini pc but several friends of mine who are also into astrophotography just stick them to the mount and can capture footage with it.
I really think mini pc's are meant for ever day use. Some have decent graphics on the processor. Most can be played at 1080P Low settings if you can stand it. I think mini pc's would be good for Linux.
I was hoping to get a mini-pc as a super low power server to tinker around with and host as many discord bot/apps as I want, maybe as a NAS, but also use it on the side for the occasional TH-cam video or indie game. Customizability isn't high up on my list. I just need it to be fairly cheap, run well enough, and not cook itself to an early death. I'd definitely be turned off if its durability/longevity isn't any better than a laptop because those things are really rough at their 3rd or 4th year of ownership. The new Mac Minis really put a hard ceiling on how expensive/bad-for-the-price mini pcs can get because you can just get the really good base model mac mini for $600. Just based on how well Apple devices age, I'm inclined to think it'll be no slouch on the longevity department either.
Mini PC’s are a niche product that started out as a why to add “smarts” to a TV for during the internet, streaming and low level games. Most TV’s sold now have the streaming/entertainment stuff already baked in so a lot of the need for these went away other than people wanting them for low level computing/internet stuff without taking up a large foot print. Really I think the new M4 Mac mini has blown these mini PC’s out of the water in both price and performance if you stay with the base model so I see this segment of the market being taken over by Apple in the future unless they can bring the cost/performance in line with the M4.
To be entirely fair, the 780xtx will play almost anything released before 2021 without much issue (cyberpunk, yeah, needs fsr, but still looks not terrible, if its what you got...), fallout 4/76, most any console emulation, Xcom, diablo3, gtaV, halflife 2 stuff, doom eternal, it will run that kind of game without issue
It's not for someone that only needs a gaming device, thats why i think these systems should have a bigger thing towards high core and thread count. A minipc is for the one person that has a budget for a laptop. needs it for school work and here and there some gaming. and i think you forgrt the prices in other countries in A country where prices are high and keep at it for longer, it might be cheaper for a more all around device. a emulator or somekind of hub.
I just got a Ryzen 6900HX GEM minipc from aliexpess and it kicks ass, decent enough gaming performance for what i play, so quiet even when gaming, low footprint on desk. I can't go back.
I started a new business model with 5 beelink mini pc’s. I take LAN parties to bars. I stream the event and broadcast it to the bar on their projector screens. The form factor allows me to carry all 5 pc’s in one box.
Intels new gpu architecture seems to be far more powerful per cu and also needs less bandwidth. mayhaps an apu will be competative with AMD this time around 🤞
No, the only good mini pc is a Mac mini M4 / M4 Pro. All the cpus in these systems are slow a/f and suck a ton of energy. The Steam decks cpu is about as powerful as a iPhone 6S lmao. And btw the "mini" pcs in the video are still huge ancient bricks.
Imo a "mini pc" is a computer that can fit in your hand that can also easily be carried around, I'd consider the maximum size about 6"x6"2", mSTX would just fit into this category whereas mITX I'd definitely categorize as larger than a mini pc. I really like the idea of mini PCs, however the lack of upgradability really kills it for me, but with that said even without being able to upgrade, I've definitely considered switching to a mini PC, although another issue I'd have is that they're all AMD based, which itself isn't bad and arguably a good thing considering how good AMD APUs have been, but AMD encoders just aren't as good as intel's or nvidia's.
Cracking up at frame gen flopping twice in a row. Insane that we've been stuck on 8gb cards for so long, cards like the 4060 or the 7600 would be infinitely more useful with 30 bucks of extra vram. So many owners of those cards are in for years of unnecessary frustration. That part isn't funny, genuinely feel for people who are gonna go through that, I'd be pissed.
You absolutely *cannot* build a desktop PC for less than a mini PC at the low end (no GPU, cheap CPU), and even some of the middle tier mini PCs with graphics can be really competitive on price (minisforum neptune series with 6800HX/6600M).
I think some of the blame lies with Intel and AMD rather than the miniPC companies... the AMD APUs seem to have overkill CPU specs and barely-enough GPU specs... If they stuck to 6 CPU cores and added 2 or 4 more GPU CUs (or better yet, better GPU memory bandwidth) they'd get better gaming performance and more balanced temps. Roll on Strix Halo and the hopeful improvements there.
We do heavy nested virtualisation at work to generate virtual networks to play with, and these are absolutely fine with no dGPU, high core, 64GB RAM minimum and easy to roll out/fix
For decades I've been an atx guy. Atx is just the cheapest, most versatile, most upgradeable choice. Just keep the pc under the desk and it won't matter how tall it is. I have an h7 flow that's nearly full tower size and if anything it makes the desk look cooler than any of these dinky small boxes would
Unreal 5, making games unbelievably demanding whilst not improving the graphics all that much. Every time I see a game is made with the engine I pass on it.
I think you should also test a Mac Mini, just for fun and comparison - I know it's not for gaming, but still actually a lot of bang for the buck and I seriously consider one for everything else.
They are really cool for Mac supported applications, but since I pretty much exclusively focus on gaming performance it didn't make much sense for this video.
@@danielowentech But don't you want to test Cyberpunk once it's out for Mac, Daniel? With Raytracing? Should be fun! :D Personally I'd also like to see a few comparisons with the titles that exist natively, like BG3 or Resident Evil, simply because nobody else does it as throrough as you and I'm seriously wondering how much this M4 is actually good for when games are actually optimized for it. Who knows, maybe it's the secret RT king!
This can also be fun, and gives you a lot of customizability and upgrade options. However, I think you still pay a price penalty vs a standards size build because of the more limited part selections for truly tiny builds.
most customers, especially women, like the mini pc's or laptops. I find them always to be a compromise in performance but size wise...........tops. I see mini pc's with these ultra hot chips from Intel...........why? Mini pc's with Zen 4 or 5 are much more efficient so I don't get it? I am not a fan of any brand so keep this out of the discussion. For me the mini ITX size is ok because you can choose your own hardware, unlike apple or any other mini. Played with the new Apple mini M4 yesterday, my son has one, and its fast but its an Apple so useless for me as the Apple OS is a no go for me. I absolutely don't like the closed format of Apple.
1:14 "where your family aren't too supportive of a gigantic tower in that setting"
:::cough-wife-cough:::
We know what you mean Daniel. Boy, do we ever.
For work, I have a Dell 12700H based laptop that I lug back and forth between working at home and at the office. But in both locations I have a docking station and I almost never use the laptop *as a laptop*. So from a business point of view, having a highly portable unit you could take between locations and then plug into a dock and that has lots of (for a SFF machine) CPU grunt makes sense. If the dock also has a GPU for other uses (or games) that's interesting.
Sounds like a great use case for the GPU dock type set up.
I bought a minipc like half a year ago, a 5700U amd one, with 16gb ram and 1tb storage, for like 300$. Replaced it with my 10 year old laptop which i've used as my media station to watch streams, videos, tv-shows and whatnot on my big tv, with some light emulation gaming on the side. One of the best investments i've done in the last 3 years at least.
Sometimes I wonder if his kids are like "Dad's yelling at the computer again to get internet money" when they hear him yappin away for hours everyday. Or when they get old enough to attend the same school and class, kids will be like "I watched your dad on youtube and its sick af"
Yes! I really need to see more of these reviews. I do a lot of travelling and I've actually thought about buying one for gaming, but they can get really expensive so much to the point to where I just give up maybe once the price of Strix point processors start coming down I might pull the trigger. Thanks for the video. Right up my alley.
Got my ~45W mini PC hooked up directly to my router, right next to it. It's my photo backup drop, my development server for home programming projects, etc. I wouldn't use it for gaming, but it's fantastic for what it does and where it quietly sits.
Now, if AMD ever releases a scaled-up Steam Deck-style processor for mobile, I'd be very tempted to hook that kind of mini pc up to the tv and play games. For now, I just have a steam deck dock.
The main issue with APUs for gaming right now is memory bandwidth. The GPUs in these mini PCs are as powerful as they can be without choking on dual channel DDR5 memory.
People who rag on mini-PCs need to realize that fundamentally, this product segment is not exactly intended for penny-pinchers, nor is it the holy grail of computing for the ultra-enthusiast. They're laser-focused at just saving space and being somewhat portable to serve as the brains of a dock or be permanently deployed as hospitality devices.
I would not buy one because it doesn't cater to my specific needs, but there's absolutely a place for them in the market.
Use them on the tv's. Got a couple of 6900h based minipcs to run entertainment in livingroom and bedrooms, but I'm going to slap an egpu dock on my 780xtx and honestly replace my somewhat more than casual gaming pc. The power consumption difference is staggering
There are many use cases for Mini-PCs, and some of them are incredibly cheap. Technically a Raspberry Pi and similar SBCs are "Mini-PCs", but even in the x86 ecosystem you can get brand new Mini-PCs for $200 or so, using for example an ADL-N N100 CPU. Of course those aren't meant for gaming, but if you just need a system to browse the web, play video, check mails, those are perfectly fine. And many people use those as home-servers, for adblocking, media streaming, smart home control, personal password storage etc...
SFF-PC would be the category that tries to do everything a big PC does but in a compact layout
Mini PC's have uses, but most Micro ATX sit under a table, which negates the size issue. The big sell is in VESA mounts behind a screen or as a portable PC with a small KB and mouse. With energy costs being a massive pro.
@@brokeandtiredThey're worth it if you need a work PC you run 10h a day and have 0.45€/hr electricity cost 😅
Can you go more in depth with the 790s7?? Out of all of them that one looks the most interesting!
A note on that UM780XTX-they use slow RAM and can't use XMP due to the requirement of laptop BIOS. In general I'm not impressed by the mini-PCs based on BGA laptop CPUs for this reason (no memory tuning.)
With a Ryzen 7 8700G, enabled PBO and tuned 8800 MT/s memory, I can achieve more than double the performance you're getting with that machine. Same "Phoenix" silicon, mind you!
Why is there a pole through your table?
What, you don't have a pole through your table? Weird.
Remodeled basement, poled is a boxed in support beam and he had a custom counter top made to fit the beam to act like a bar table I'm assuming and he probably typically has two bar stoles for there. Just a guess though
Either that or I just really wanted a table with a giant pole through it.
Don't all teachers have custom tables just for displaying collections of unique computers?
Daniel is now going to get called into the principal's office to explain rumors that he has a pole in his basement.
Would be cool if you took a look at handhelds+mini PCs and how hard they are CPU bottlenecked when using a combination of Oculink, high TDP and a variety of eGPU solutions, budget-midrange cards in particular would be very interesting. 🙂
..not sure most ppl even know what Oculink is, let alone its capabilities but yeeee this would be an awesome vid by him. It'd get like 27 likes...but still dope lol
Hi, nice video. I have the Beelink PC with the 12900H (you wrote HK in your video but it's only an H) which is also available with the new 285H chips. My Beelink runs with a dock and a 4080 Super Proart from Asus and its performance is really top. The biggest disadvantage I see when playing is the low 1% FPS. Despite GSync, they ruin the fun. The 65 watt TDP is slightly higher than the standard 45 watt. More is not possible because the Beelink only has a 145 watt power supply. Conclusion: As a NAS it is too expensive and inflexible and for gaming the 1% lows are nerfed. But the bottom line is that I paid €500 for the Beelink with dock + €1000 for the 4080 Super and got 32gb 4800mhz RAM and a 1TB Crucial P3 Plus SSD. The performance with the form factor becomes difficult to match.
Recently I've been considering getting one for different reasons and then you release this video, I'll take it as a sign lol
for what may or may not be a useful frame of reference: the biggest desktop tower computer you can fit in your office / den / bed room / where every you keep your computer is not just not a mini PC. it's actually a microcomputer.
great video. I do agree with the other comments and would like more videos like this
Daniel should do some DIY projects like Zach Builds. I would totaly watch that.
I bought a BMAX mini-PC almost 5 years ago with W-10-pro for $185.00, auto upgraded to W-11pro for free. I've added an NVME drive for storage (used, replaced from another system) and mounted on the back large flat panel screen. Not only does it play streaming media, internet surfing, and stored videos, I can also remote to it accessing/storing/playing media from my phone. Best investment ever. 😀
you mean downgraded to win 11
@GewelReal I have found workarounds for personal gripes with W-11.
good piece, this is very good now as ppl think you need the latest and greatest to run new games. And you dont need 300fps for an adventure/rpg game. Fitting a small pc behind your TV is a nice option from a console due to, you know all the extra availability you get from it as well. thx Owen
Been a small form factor enthusiast for about as long as PC's existed. Own and used a bunch of MinisForum APU based systems for low end gaming and currently running an Intel i7 Beast Canyon NUC with a base dual slot 4070 stuffed into it and yes it fits both physically and PSU rating (just). Helps that all it needs is an old school 8pin, hence why I think its the sweet spot of the 40x range.
Noise isn't too much of an issue for a lounge gaming PC as not only do you sit a fair distance from it, its noise would also get drowned out by the TV/stereo's audio anyway. Even more so if you position the PC behind the TV etc.
I liked this video a lot. The lengthy introduction was great, wouldn't mind more videos like this! Just can't seem to get used to the color of the walls. Am I the only one? 😂
My camera makes the walls look way more yellow than they really are. In person they are more of a tan/brown with a slight orange tint.
15:12 Yes, but a mini PC with a Ryzen AI MAX+ 395 which has 40 CUs will not only be able to replace a 4K console, they'll be able to replace a 4K PC. We'll have to wait until Q2 for that.
After so many years of experience on ITX PC's, I decided it's best to stick to the most common type of hardware. I still use an ITX motherboard on a 10~ liter sandwich case though. My GPU is about 33 CM long. This layout requires a riser cable which makes it non-standart, but it's a really effective way of going small. Otherwise your case gets at least 2x bigger and it can still likely NOT offer you 35 CM lenth of GPU support a 10 liter sandwich layout could. Going smaller while still not compromising is only possible in a DIY way with liquid cooling - like the guy who did a 5 liter 4090 build, which isn't really for everyone. My only motivation is taking it on a plane with me, which I never did yet, otherwise it might not worth the hassle if you don't wanna deal with the potential compatibility issues or spend extra.
you SAVED me from getting that ACEMAGIC and not having VRR on my TV... was going to emulate and play older games at 4K ~80ish fps, and not having VRR would have been terrible.... Makes me want to consider eGPU at this point!
😂wow that's a heck of a lot of pc's. I generally avoid mini pc's due to difficulty in cooling them and upgrades.
I think I have a mini pc addiction lol. To be fair, many of those were sent as review samples so I didn't spend quite as much as you might think for my collection lol
It's not the size of the boat, but the motion of the ocean, you guys.
Massive cope. You need 7-8 inches. Dickpill is brutal.
you can't fit a 9800x3d and 4090 in a dingy.
that form factor is veeery interesting and saves quite some space.
I feel like many people use these mini PCs for TV/media/home server type of PCs which is why they are offered with 16 core processors and most don't contain discrete GPUs. They can swap in 4-16TB storage and they're off to the races with built in graphics being fine for 4K 2D rendering and mAYBe even some light gaming.
I'd be curious about if the 4060 DLSS upscaling to 4K is actually a decent experience, also relative to FSR, because a lot of reviewers I've watched seem suggest that no, not really.
For 4K TV at that GPU power, 1080p gaming with integer scaling enabled is the way to go in my opinion.
Hi David.. can you compare the 12900h docked with 4070 super to a desktop with at least 7800x3d in 1080 / 1440p? Obviously I think the desktop will win but just to see how it is a "desktop replacement" for smaller footprint
The mini pc i bought had some funky bios that would only let me install a pre approved Windows OS to it that i had to directly download from them.. Impossible to get linux on it. Then the SSD died a week after purchase.. It got returned to amazon and i don't have the ambition to try again.
Plz do a full review of the Minisforum 790s7!
I don't think I have time for a dedicated video, but you saw the gaming performance here. Overall I like it, although as I mentioned in the video the fans seem a bit loud. Aleo no built in wifi so that would have to be added if you need it.
@@danielowentechI’m mostly concerned about the temps is it safe for the gpu to reach 90c sometimes?
I'd like to try one of the BeeLink and/or Minisforum models with the AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 chips.
I'm using my Atomman g7 PT and I'm super happy with this device, I don't called mini pc but a small pc.
Mr Owen is really flexing (literally) lifting that PC case repeatedly.
This guy is living my dream. However, I lack the importance and value to others to actually have money.
I remember looking around for them before, but I can't remember if any of them have graphics cards in them. Which ones would you say have one?
Btw, I'm not sure if you can remember who, but I do remember being in your old class in the 2019-2020 school year before the lockdown happened.
I have a Velka 7 with a 4070 Super and 9800x3d... works REALLY well. And it fits in backpack
There's 2 related but distinct categories to consider. The Mini PC, which is a tiny pre-built, typically 2-5 liter capacity, with limited specs and upgrade path, and the Small Form Factor or SFF system which is a fully fledged and customizable PC in a small case, typically 9-20 liter capacity. For comparison, full towers go up to 60 liters. I've been using only SFF for 15 years now. Currently got the popular Cooler Master NR200 case, which is 18 liters, with a 9800X3D and 4080. It can fit 4090 Strix too. Runs cool and quiet and matches any similarly spec'd tower PC. With the exception of extreme overclockers or tempered glass/RGB nuts, I personally don't understand these huge cases people buy, which take up a lot of space and give them nothing. For 90% of users, SFF will work great. They do tend to cost a bit more, though. Mostly around $100 extra for an SFF motherboard.There are some great SFF dedicated TH-cam channels, like Machines & More and Optimum Tech, if anyone is interested in more info.
Ease of use, ease of build, and ease of upgrade. Small time cystom builder here, there is nothing fun or easy about building in SFF its just more tedious, requires alot of patience, and tiny fingers are useful too lol. I would much rather have more space than i need than not enough. Also, you cant really have a high end system in sff without spending about twice as much on components while also sacrificing upgrade paths. It's just not viable for someone who cares about the price/performance ratio. So, theres a variety of reasons but the last one i mentioned is usually the one people care about the most.
@@Gimpy17 I agree about the ease of build and upgrade, but not about doubling the cost. The CPU, GPU, cooler, RAM, display, keyboard, mouse and case costs are the same. The mobo and PSU will indeed cost more, but the overall cost of the system might be 15-20% higher. Thing is, 90% of users are not enthusiasts who upgrade a component every 3 months and overclock to the max. Many users, including those who buy pre-builts and never even pop the case open, are not even aware that SFF exists, and I think would be very happy with a space saving SFF system, if they knew it was an option.
@@guy197 they simply do not. this is not my opinion this is just data from building about 20-30 computers a year for the past 7 years. the overall cost difference from 2 similar builds just this year was about 300 dollars. (mid tower atx to itx sff) SFF is a niche category and it is that way for a multitude of reasons, non being easy to explain other than cost and build process.
What about those velka cases with full systems?
Once again here to request a look at the history of generational GPU price:performance improvement over the years 🙏
Google it
If you can afford it, mini PC is the absolute way to go for the living room. Regular tower cases are best hidden if you are an adult
Hopefully the next Steam Deck has occulink or thunderbolt.
depends of the use case, i have one for development on linux and light emulation gaming
Best part about the minis is that they allow for upping the power to the cpu/iGpu beyond what one would see in laptops. Cooling is still a concern...
I'd argue that laptops are basically a subclass of mini-PC though, laptops falls under most definitions of mini-PC outside of the single note of being desktop only
The only mini PC that I consider is just to have Plex with terabytes of movies and leave it on 24/7
On your point of mini pc companies' CPU choice:
Very often, these lesser known companies get bulk discounted CPUs from AMD/Intel because they're usually the "unwanted" ones, maybe binned down that's not suited for more expensive laptops. Other times, it's a configuration that serves a really common purpose outside of the consumer space or even literally a huge and weirdly-specifically-configured order from a huge client (which solves their problem of producing them at scale cheaply), and they just repackaged some of the extras for direct consumer products. If it's a little off, they may just be contorting the marketing a little bit to convince you to buy something they were already making anyway. This is the same situation for other OEM products.
One of the most exciting things about the supposedly upcoming Playstation and Xbox Handhelds is that devs will have to optimize for these less powerful chips with integrated graphics if they want to enter that market. And I think this market will grow substantially over the next decade.
i thought the ol' cooler master elite 110 mini itx was a neat size and set of options casewise.
I got a GEM 12 6900hx for just over $300. That is cheaper than I could have bought the parts. Its fast and runs cool while not being loud. Yes its only a 680m but has occulink and I have been very impressed with its speed and price. It has a few drawbacks as you mentioned but I got it for my wife who has no room for a pc in her office and needs it for work and less for gaming.
I myself don’t use a mini pc but several friends of mine who are also into astrophotography just stick them to the mount and can capture footage with it.
It stinks we went away from the thunderbolt type graphics card docks. The alienware alpha r2 was an older version of these sort of mini pcs.
I really think mini pc's are meant for ever day use. Some have decent graphics on the processor. Most can be played at 1080P Low settings if you can stand it. I think mini pc's would be good for Linux.
ITX would be the best choice!
bro's got a whole collection
I was hoping to get a mini-pc as a super low power server to tinker around with and host as many discord bot/apps as I want, maybe as a NAS, but also use it on the side for the occasional TH-cam video or indie game.
Customizability isn't high up on my list. I just need it to be fairly cheap, run well enough, and not cook itself to an early death. I'd definitely be turned off if its durability/longevity isn't any better than a laptop because those things are really rough at their 3rd or 4th year of ownership.
The new Mac Minis really put a hard ceiling on how expensive/bad-for-the-price mini pcs can get because you can just get the really good base model mac mini for $600. Just based on how well Apple devices age, I'm inclined to think it'll be no slouch on the longevity department either.
I like the idea of miniPCs with eGPUs, but I feel like it won't really be viable until Thunderbolt 5 is a thing. I scratch the itch with SFFPC.
What about this Vs using moonlight
Mini PC’s are a niche product that started out as a why to add “smarts” to a TV for during the internet, streaming and low level games. Most TV’s sold now have the streaming/entertainment stuff already baked in so a lot of the need for these went away other than people wanting them for low level computing/internet stuff without taking up a large foot print. Really I think the new M4 Mac mini has blown these mini PC’s out of the water in both price and performance if you stay with the base model so I see this segment of the market being taken over by Apple in the future unless they can bring the cost/performance in line with the M4.
For years the mini pc is used in the corporate world for office work. I wonder if companies will switch from NUC or AMD based minis to a M4.
To be entirely fair, the 780xtx will play almost anything released before 2021 without much issue (cyberpunk, yeah, needs fsr, but still looks not terrible, if its what you got...), fallout 4/76, most any console emulation, Xcom, diablo3, gtaV, halflife 2 stuff, doom eternal, it will run that kind of game without issue
It's not for someone that only needs a gaming device, thats why i think these systems should have a bigger thing towards high core and thread count. A minipc is for the one person that has a budget for a laptop. needs it for school work and here and there some gaming.
and i think you forgrt the prices in other countries in A country where prices are high and keep at it for longer, it might be cheaper for a more all around device.
a emulator or somekind of hub.
The Math Teacher is bulking up
We can see the muscles starting to stretch out those clothes ...
What is bro doing with all of that hardware?
I just got a Ryzen 6900HX GEM minipc from aliexpess and it kicks ass, decent enough gaming performance for what i play, so quiet even when gaming, low footprint on desk. I can't go back.
I started a new business model with 5 beelink mini pc’s. I take LAN parties to bars. I stream the event and broadcast it to the bar on their projector screens. The form factor allows me to carry all 5 pc’s in one box.
This sounds like something that happened in your mind instead of real life
www.youtube.com/@J.Luke.C
@@lukec1 nice
Intels new gpu architecture seems to be far more powerful per cu and also needs less bandwidth. mayhaps an apu will be competative with AMD this time around 🤞
Review mac mini with m4. Will body any of these mini pcs.
No, the only good mini pc is a Mac mini M4 / M4 Pro. All the cpus in these systems are slow a/f and suck a ton of energy. The Steam decks cpu is about as powerful as a iPhone 6S lmao. And btw the "mini" pcs in the video are still huge ancient bricks.
Imo a "mini pc" is a computer that can fit in your hand that can also easily be carried around, I'd consider the maximum size about 6"x6"2", mSTX would just fit into this category whereas mITX I'd definitely categorize as larger than a mini pc.
I really like the idea of mini PCs, however the lack of upgradability really kills it for me, but with that said even without being able to upgrade, I've definitely considered switching to a mini PC, although another issue I'd have is that they're all AMD based, which itself isn't bad and arguably a good thing considering how good AMD APUs have been, but AMD encoders just aren't as good as intel's or nvidia's.
High end gaming on a mini PC isn't optimal if it doesn't have discreet graphics. For retro/ casual/ indy games they work fine.
Cracking up at frame gen flopping twice in a row. Insane that we've been stuck on 8gb cards for so long, cards like the 4060 or the 7600 would be infinitely more useful with 30 bucks of extra vram. So many owners of those cards are in for years of unnecessary frustration. That part isn't funny, genuinely feel for people who are gonna go through that, I'd be pissed.
The advantage here is apparently the lower cost, lower weight, lower size. I'd say if that's what you're after just get a console ❤
I was just looking at mini pcs, one for travel perhaps and mostly to try to lure my mother away from tablet/phone complaining they aren't a pc.
You absolutely *cannot* build a desktop PC for less than a mini PC at the low end (no GPU, cheap CPU), and even some of the middle tier mini PCs with graphics can be really competitive on price (minisforum neptune series with 6800HX/6600M).
I thought about buying one to use as a minecraft server. However, i don't need it to be so small and would rather have the extra performance
lol easy mistake to make but the 7840hs is actually a 8 core 16 thread cpu not 16/32
Daniel Owen definitely lifts and goes to the gym.
Just 3d print a super tight itx case.
For gaming those are terrible.
But if you don't need mobility of a laptop, they are perfect because you can work on a much bigger screen
I think some of the blame lies with Intel and AMD rather than the miniPC companies... the AMD APUs seem to have overkill CPU specs and barely-enough GPU specs...
If they stuck to 6 CPU cores and added 2 or 4 more GPU CUs (or better yet, better GPU memory bandwidth) they'd get better gaming performance and more balanced temps. Roll on Strix Halo and the hopeful improvements there.
We do heavy nested virtualisation at work to generate virtual networks to play with, and these are absolutely fine with no dGPU, high core, 64GB RAM minimum and easy to roll out/fix
I got sucked into the SFF vortex. Wish I had not. Wasted a lot of money for bragging rights.
i bought microatx just because it was the best value for money at the time, I would've gone regular atx if that was better value
Meanwhile laptops are just a sub-category of mini-PCs, which helps people to visualise what exactly mini-pcs are.
For decades I've been an atx guy. Atx is just the cheapest, most versatile, most upgradeable choice. Just keep the pc under the desk and it won't matter how tall it is. I have an h7 flow that's nearly full tower size and if anything it makes the desk look cooler than any of these dinky small boxes would
Unreal 5, making games unbelievably demanding whilst not improving the graphics all that much. Every time I see a game is made with the engine I pass on it.
I think you should also test a Mac Mini, just for fun and comparison - I know it's not for gaming, but still actually a lot of bang for the buck and I seriously consider one for everything else.
They are really cool for Mac supported applications, but since I pretty much exclusively focus on gaming performance it didn't make much sense for this video.
@@danielowentech But don't you want to test Cyberpunk once it's out for Mac, Daniel? With Raytracing? Should be fun! :D
Personally I'd also like to see a few comparisons with the titles that exist natively, like BG3 or Resident Evil, simply because nobody else does it as throrough as you and I'm seriously wondering how much this M4 is actually good for when games are actually optimized for it. Who knows, maybe it's the secret RT king!
What’s the story with the jacket? Sponsor or something? Every single video.
ASUS Serpent Canyon is better balanced with 20 Threads and a Arc A770M ($700).
what about building a mini pc?
This can also be fun, and gives you a lot of customizability and upgrade options. However, I think you still pay a price penalty vs a standards size build because of the more limited part selections for truly tiny builds.
Get a steam deck. Forget those impostors.
Daniel, the thumbnail doesn't look like you. I think that's the reason this video is getting fewer views. But maybe that's just me.
I have a Raspberry pi 4 single board computer the size of a credit card 8 Gb of ram running Linux pi os.129.00 dollars.
That's what she said
I define mini pc by cpu the vast majority are laptop cpu.
I absolutely hate the idea of mini PC
That's a microPC, the rest are mini PCs, other than the tower.
laptops are mini pcs *runs away*
Minecraft servers! Also terraria palworld etc...
its funny cuz the smaller they are the bigger price is
most customers, especially women, like the mini pc's or laptops. I find them always to be a compromise in performance but size wise...........tops. I see mini pc's with these ultra hot chips from Intel...........why? Mini pc's with Zen 4 or 5 are much more efficient so I don't get it? I am not a fan of any brand so keep this out of the discussion. For me the mini ITX size is ok because you can choose your own hardware, unlike apple or any other mini. Played with the new Apple mini M4 yesterday, my son has one, and its fast but its an Apple so useless for me as the Apple OS is a no go for me. I absolutely don't like the closed format of Apple.
Send one to me
And pay for delivery