Cal Fire Pilot Shortage
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- A brief overview of some of the issues impacting the Cal Fire fixed wing airtanker fleet's pilot shortage.
BIG Oroville update inbound...stby ($1.1 Billion!)
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"Weightless"
Aram Bedrosian
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Just a side note, both of those airplanes use the trusty old Honeywell turboprop! We are still cranking them out!
More forest management would help.
YES! Immensely.
higher paying jobs would help... increase pay for all forest service & firefighters.
true but its hard to manage a forest when its on fire all year round lol
As always, very informative video! Keep on, Juan! 😎👍
The small tanker is very fast. They need to put people to work thinning out the forest would help in my opinion.
I would contact ag pilots, some of which have ME ratings, including myself. Alot of us are off October thru may.
Another great report Juan - thank you. :)
Makes me wish I had trained to be a pilot in my youth instead of choosing computer programming as my career.
Very good to know. Here (and a few times previously you have mentioned) you address some factors affecting flight crewing. What is the situation and additional ramifications of the ground crews and controllers?
I'm going to guess one of the factors to flight crewing is the 'hours of service' laws that they began to enforce very strictly.
I'm a long haul trucker/owner op...we have the same problems out on the road. The new laws have actually made the roads more dangerous because everyone is now 'racing the clock'.
Common schedule for city and county firefighters working the ground in California is called the "Two by four" . 48 hours on 96 hours off. Which is change from the previous widespread "three on four off" thats three days on with a day off in-between and then four off in a row i.e.: WORK Mon, weds, fri OFF/ Sat, sun, mon tues. WORK/ Weds, fri, sun OFF/ mon, tues,weds, thurs.
Thanks Craig!
Juan, since there is a shortage, will they employ you as a sub per diem?
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. I bet it would be a nice break from being a bus-driver, although a triple-7 is one badass bus! On a side note, I love the OV-10 Bronco. I have one in my brushless RC airplane collection and it flies like a dream.
The military trains people to operate and maintain aircraft and many well trained people return to civilian life in their late 20s. I retired from the Navy after 20 years in Naval Aviation, but felt the civilian schooling and licencing requirement too much of a burden, so I jumped into manufacturing to keep a cash flow.
It's always seemed to me one would just about have to be born into the tanker pilot "business" to acquire the credentials required to do the work.
Yes, some qualifications are genetic.
You would think that after all the federal money put in to training naval and airforce aviators that there should be a short course program for transferring those skills to the civilian market which should be included in any separation package.
Same with aircraft maintenance and maintenance management.
And they are really screaming for aircraft maintenance at the moment in commercial airlines. Are the qualifications the same or the equivalent ?
My son wants to be a pilot and eventually have enough experience to fly for cal fire...but man, getting a commercial license alone is seriously pricey. Makes it a hard profession to enter.
Yes it is, and to the get the experience that Cal Fire wants to fly it's helicopters takes years.
HOPE your video resolves this situation with there , new found circumstances.
Until they achieve balance in there
Days on too days off duty , there going to have difficulty finding young family persons to train and fill these positions.
Thank you for being a role model of what Is raise children with love, your kids got the best dad around.
Autonomous fire fighting Drones? Equals ZERO pilots. They will all need a BrainChip!
I’m reminded of a Smoke the Bear quote “Only you can prevent forest fires”. Bring back our logging industry! God bless our fire fighters.
UAS will take up some of the slack. Some spotter duties will go unmanned in the near future. I’ve no doubt of this.
A very stressful job and critical service.
I hope they can find a solution.
Good Luck.
drones
Thanks Juan, bummer on the shortage, maybe you could fly for them on your days off :o)...
My dream job to fly the OV-10s. A day late and a dollar short.
BRAVO to ALL those that risk it all to fight these fires....... THANK YOU FIRE FIGHTERS ! .... and Thank You Capt. for the update.
Still short on pilots? How’s the outlook in a few years? This could be an awesome next chapter after I retire from my current gig.
Oct 10, 2020 today. Is there still a pilot shortage? So many are furloughed this year!
NIGHT FLIGHTS - A friend wants to know about night flying. I believe I saw helicopters after dark last year.
Obvious huge risk, but lower air temperatures.
VFR day only.
It's no surprise with the U.S. Forest service, Cal Fire ,B.C.Forest service, etc. etc all doing their own thing, maybe it's time to merge the entire west coast system and control it in a central location
Is there a proper flight simulator for any of the types used and in the style of a firefighting trip?
I doubt anyone would do tanker pilot from a P2 position in an airline, but several folk with an interrupted flight career might like to try an assessment sim ride.Some USA military pilots may be coming to the end of their normal career and still have a wish to fly.
Hey Juan can you do a quick video on the C-1T? This is first time I've seen a C-1 with turboprops and a pointy nose.
I’m 60 and want to get my helicopter license badly but probably ain’t going to happen at this stage.
Gee Dubb never too late my friend!!! Go for it!!!
@blancolirio
LOL!!! Got my little taste of that tune at the end!! THANX!! God Bless!
Too Funny I read about the shortage and I was going to ask you our expert to explain what was going on. you just did it without asking , I knew you used to fly these and would give us the straight story. Thanks
Ten years on the Herc, but I’m getting too old and losing interest in jumping through the hoops. Sure be fun, though.
Where I lived until 5 years ago, in order to be hired to fly helicopters for the police department, you needed 2500 hours of rotor craft time. This was good when there were an abundance of retired military guys, but not now. They dropped their requirements to 1000 hours, and still have problems hiring qualified pilots.
Can't Calfire hire contract pilots, or if not PIC, a right seat guy to spread the resources?
As for the C130 soon to be slots, ANG guys are having trouble getting monthly time. Why not use them with supervision by experienced Calfire pilots for directing aerial drops. If you can drop pallets, you can drop powder.
That's MAFFS vs Cal Fire vs USFS vs Contract USFS Airtankers. See my April MAFFS trng video. I should clarify all CalFire pilots are Contract pilots through DynCorp. Thanks Gunga.
I would clarify that all fixed wing pilots are employed by Dyncorp which is contracted to fly the planes. All rotor wing pilots are CAL FIRE employees
Notice to state : pay the damned people decently and have them a correct life. Just telling.
Thanks for some clarification Juan. As a side note I noticed how thick the trees and brush are behind you at the airport. It looks like a time bomb ready to explode. I'm just speaking to the issue you brought up in a prior video.
Thank you for reporting on this. Thank you for all of your videos this week. I really look forward to your red dot on this channel.
Thanks for the update, Juan! Bet they're sorry you're not there, with your amazing energy!!
they may be just as happy...lol...
hahaha, somehow i doubt that...
Pilot shortage is currently a problem. How long till aircraft are a problem? A lot of the fire fighting fleet are older, converted ex-military aircraft. Will we need replacements in a fairly short time? Will there be suitable surplus aircraft from military or civilian service, or should we be looking at purpose built, new construction aircraft such as the CL-415?
Canada is buying CL-415s, converted Twin Otters, AT802F , and AT802 Fire Boss scoopers.
Praying for RAIN in California
My Dad is a retired deceased Captain of our City's F. D. When he started he worked 2 day shifts, 2 night shifts. Now the City of Revere (2 mins from KBOS where I am sitting right now) and Boston as well works 2 24 hour shifts. That's so sad. Poor animals getting killed and losing their homes. 2018 was horrible for CA. I truly feel for them. Hopefully they will find a suitable solution for everyone. Thanks Juan. Happy Trails. 🛩️🛫
Drones
Good job Juan. Just sick about Nor Cal's fire year for you all down there.
When will those S-2 Tracker aircraft ever wear out?
good question...
Throw enough money at it and the answer is........no time soon....
well...do you need Julianne to help you fill out the application?😁
lol. Thanks Rick!
I reread my comment, didn't mean to sound like a smart ass. Seriously, you seem to be a perfect fit for that kind of flying and the fire seasons are just going to get longer and worse.
Thank you for the update! And love the music by AB. "The Mist" by AB is awesome...take a listen! 😊
Thanks Juan, I trained on S2 Trackers and we had one do a taxi roll past during our tech graduation ceremony, ( were retired and no longer flight certified at that time)they were used in the ASW role in Canada, very tough air frame and so is the C130 H they can take a lot of abuse but you need to keep an eye on that G meter ha ha.
Juan, what’s the best way to pick up the requisite experience for one of these jobs?
If you are young enough...I would consider becoming a wildland firefighter first (boots on the ground experience), then get your ratings during the off season...
blancolirio 39 and thinking of making a career switch to flying (not the regionals-would like to do something different). Got all the ratings and about 500 hours with a good amount of tailwheel and glider experience, but short on multi time. Curious to know the path guys take to build hours in order to get into air attack.
Does your day job allow you enough time to work part time as a fire pilot?
Don't expect any help from Pacific Gouge and Extortion!
Thanks Juan. You always give me a real life look at the subjects you talk about.
It's probably much easier to find willing lumber companies and fight the envirofinatics
This enviro-fanatic is all for healthy forests, sustainable logging and controlled burns. I dread my local Bay Area mountains, looking for a repeat of Oakland Hills.
Well, you sound more like a promoter of stewardship than an envirofanatic to me
Is this sort of thing a part 121 or 135 operation? In the sense of having an age 65 retirement mandated? Or can one fly past 65 in an operation like this, and how far past 65?
Part 91
I don't know how long it takes to train a pilot specialist in firefighting and Navigator yeah I think if they did some massive advertising Nationwide there would be quite a group of licensed Pilots that would show up for work and training. I know how incredibly dangerous this is born in California 49 and we all know that some go straight to heaven while fighting to save us and protect us. God bless all firefighters Brandon Cook mechanics the people in The Towers whoever's involved they are heroes to me
About 2 fire seasons to train up.
@@blancolirio longer than I thought oh boy that's a terrible worry isn't it. Praying for all of you. Stay cool from Florida
@@osakarose5612 well we know he's not a firefighter of any kind.
Those clowns sit for hours, if not through-out their dismal lives, waiting and hoping for some sort of acknowledgment.....even if its bad. There was a shortage of pilots in Independence Day; we won that fire too.
Aren't the fixed wing pilots employed by DynaCorp as contract pilots? How does that fugure into the equation?
Yes. That's where you apply for the job.
Got chah! Total respect for you sir. just sayin
Juan, do you know if Cal Fire uses part time pilots?
I don't think so.
Maybe you can work your days off?
One of my best friends funerals was two months ago at Chico airport. He died in lake Oroville in a boat accident. He wanted to invest in bags to sling water under his R-44 to protect his friends and own investments/homes. Although he only flew rotor. I used to have a Jr pilots lic from kccr. Would love to get into flying commercial but it takes too much investments for me right now. This economy doesn't seem to want to ease. Food prices soaring. Seems middle class is almost non existent. It's upper middle-class, retired, wealthy. Or struggling to get by paycheck to paycheck. What one man could work 30 hour for.. years ago, takes two people working 40 hours today, and hardly make ends meet. Couples divorcing over money issues. Women opting for selfish "career" life instead of the fulfilling job of motherhood. .. it almost seems as if there's a battle between good and evil waging. But that's just the bible thumping conspiracy theorist in me talking, right😁😁😁
Late question but can you become a pilot and a firefighter? Like u finish ur flight school and build some flight hours, then you complete ur firefighting program wich is 16 weeks if im not wrong. And u end up being qualified to be a firefighter pilot and on normal days a normal firefighter. Is it possible?
Actual Wildland firefighting experience is great to have before becoming a tanker pilot or Leadplane pilot. But you can't do both at the same time. They are 2 full time jobs (during fire season).
@@blancolirio oh okay thanks. Was wondering because i really look into becoming an aerial firefighter but the schedule and the fact that you work for only 6 months approximately and use unemployment doesnt look that interesting now so i dont know yet. I hope that the changes said in the video would come soon.
The unemployment rate is low and a lot of professions are hurting. I can’t even find good production workers. We’ve had to take on temporary staff. Thank for the awesome update. 👍🏻👍🏻✌🏻
What's the hiring process for pilots? Where do you apply if you want to?
I got a chance to hear one fly over today while outside. Pretty neat to hear a low fly over from a twin prop high performance fixed wing plane. Got me chasing the clouds to catch a glimpse. Usually we got the helicopters from
the news channels or water monitoring folks. On very rare occasions we get a P-51 or a old bomber like B-22. I always head outside and look to the sky see if I can catch a glimpse causing such great noises.
Take a look at the recent fly8ma on why he stopped being a commercial pilot .... Might be why there is a shortage
No.
A friend of Mine flew S-2’s in the Navy in the 1960’s and later for Cal Fire until He became too old to fly. He loved the S-2. In California many people are moving away , fed up with a lot of things and singing those Democrat Blues like the Hawaiian’s are now. Government Jobs , like being a cop are like sitting in the Black Dodgers Chair at the County Fair. If the bad guys or a fire doesn’t do You in some overly sensitive LBGTQ or Crossdresser will.
Coming in 8 years
Some ridiculous comments here. Logging...Right because Oxygen will just make itself. We can all breath something else??
Thanks for the update.
Thank you
Fund the qualifications and ratings I need and i will give you the next 10 years of my life.
i will be trying to join the CFPA and hopefully fly the s2 tracker
I know you're talking about fixed-wing, but as a helicopter pilot I can make more money and live in a cheaper State and commute to work. There's no incentive for me to look at working for Cal Fire.
I was as an observer, I have around 2000 combat hours.Alaska fire water drops three weeks flying 8 per day.
I’ve always wanted to learn to fly. Never had the opportunity. More than confident that i could do it. No money and because of that, no time.
Miss the 'Mighty Luscombe' flights. DWR just isn't giving any lengthy flights. Frequent but not as good as yours. No commentary either. Thanks for the update on the pilot shortage. Other than the pilot situation, Sacramento really think they can cover the cost of maintaining C-130Hs?
We'll find out...
Something to keep in mind, the Tanker and Air Attack Pilots are not Cal Fire employees. They are Dyncorp employees. Dyncorp does all Pilot hiring and all maintenance on the fixed wing and Copters. Copter Pilots are Cal Fire employees. So while this certainly effects Cal Fire, the ball is in Dyncorp court, so to speak. And the C-130’s are a few years away before they are placed in service, except for the two that the USFS is currently using. All the wing boxes must be replaced and the last I was told it takes a year per aircraft to perform this task. And, the federal government has yet to sign the useable C-130’s over to The State of California yet. And that is anyone’s guess how long that will take.
Correct.
I used to work at Marsh Avation.. Great company
You mentioned using C 130 to help out . While I have only seen that was painted in the USFS designation parked here in the boneyard in Tucson does it take a lot of time and effort to convert them to firefighting use ? Also could the Governor declare an emergency and call out the California Air National Guard for fire fighting duty?
yes, and yes.
I wonder how things are now during the pandemic and all the airline pilots being laid off...
The shortage is hitting us over here in the UK and Europe too. Current summer season has been 95 block hrs a month avg on 5/2 with our regional. Many pilots leaving for larger airlines puts more pressure on us, so I know exactly where the Cal Fire guys are coming from! Tough times.
Yep! Worldwide! Thanks Chris.
And with all the other "quality of life" issues in California such as the higher costs for everything, would pilots want to uproot their families and have to deal with it year round?
Questions about the C130... does it carry enough more retardant (3 times as much) to make up for the additional on board crew needed. Are there other issues with the S2's that are prompting the change such as ageing and parts availability?
The C-130 carries up to 3000 gallons of retardant, and is used as a different tool in a fire managers tool box. It's a complex aircraft requiring a minimum crew of 3 regardless. Nothing to do with aging S-2 fleet...the C-130 H's are aging just as quickly...
Ok, thanks for the reply
Take 2 RED PILLS & call me in the morning!
Saw the story in the media, but no word on how to apply. Nothing listed on the Cal Fire website. I might be qualified, definitely interested, but no idea on where to turn. Any suggestions?
I'm looking too....which makes no sense, they should keep the applications open. The contactor is DynCorp.
Thanks! Great channel...we should get out airplanes together for a photo op. 1946 Taylorcraft out of KSAC. Love the Luscombe videos!
Will my 500hrs in a C172 qualify ?
no
What are the prospects like for someone who has no aerial firefighting experience? This is a dream job of mine, currently flying cargo but come from a public service background (Former fire fighter and State Trooper). Information is hard to come by and it seems like a catch 22 industry where everyone requires previous experience but there's no apparent way to acquire any. Thanks!
If it's multi engine PIC turbine time...you are getting the right experience.
Awesome, that's good to hear. I'll keep plugging away at it! Thanks.
I don't have a Muti engine rating or a IFR rating so can I still apply as a observer or A Pilot for the Bronco once I earn my Muti rating training through CAL Fire Ops ?
You will have to get that on your own.
But there are never pilot positions listed in the vacancies.
You must lobby them directly.
@@blancolirio Wow, never knew this.
They want pilots just to cold call them? Thanks for the reply.
Walk in. How it's always been.
@@blancolirio Love it, like the good ole days. Didnt know that still existed. Thanks.
Where are the offices for them located? I see a few listed online.
Is that Grass Valley?
Yes. GVAAB
I bet there is no more pilot shortage now 😂🙈
Thanks Juan! Always great information on your channel. Of course, as I write this, there currently is NO pilot shortage worldwide, due to COVID19 networks.pan-galactic.net/covids , and many pilots, flight attendants, and other airline personnel, and their families will be hurting for a long time to come, I'm afraid. (You pointed this situation out in a recent video). This is the worst case of "being on the back-side of the wave" that I, and you, have ever seen. I currently fly cargo for a large white-purple-and-orange company who will remain nameless. We have NOT been affected negatively, so far.
How is it Juan sits back, gives you a bunch of facts, occasionally adds some of his valuable vast experience, rarely adds his informed reasoned opinion and is just the best news source on what he covers!
I looked into this in August, but the companies who hire these pilots told me that they are not hiring right now. Is it true that they will only hire after the new year for the next training dates? Is there a place you can send an application now?
why are you not flying for them? just sayin
For the very issues discussed here.
Hey why arent you flyinh with them
Are pilots underpaid, or is there a shortage. Raise rates and there won’t be a shortage.
not that simple unfortunately...
Anyone know what that pink stuff is they drop on the fires?
Industry name 'Phos-Check'...here ya go -phoschek.com/product-class/fire-retardant-for-wildland/
@@blancolirio thank you
There is no-one queuing for a position where you fly VFR at 250' AGL and let your type rating on anything an airline might want because its an end of line job. You get 2500 hrs P1 and an ATPL then let it all lapse while flying an old relic VFR.
If you are a fresh holder of a CPL and a frozen ATPL and say 300 hours looking for a right seat position for a company 1/ you want lots of hours a month, 2/ you need lots of instrument work 3/you need to keep a current type rating on something in commercial use. Fire flying offers none of these.
Retiring or ex mil pilots who have the hours, have the ATPL, probably have a useful group of type ratings , might be a better hunting ground.
Does any major airline want applicants who have 2000 hours of flying VFR and 250 feet AGL.
It might even be an option to get airliner tankers so that there are current aircrew can just switch seats for a new ride. I guess that there are still DC10 and 747 crew available on the USA employment market.
It takes a uniquely qualified individual to pass the rigorous training and be able to maintain an even strain throughout a busy fire season. By no means is this an airline pilot lead in job.
Where do I sign up?
I volunteer as tribute
Cal now needs an army to battle fire.
Cal needs an army to fight the libtard inviromentalists that are destroying this state !!!
interesting ,
Not sure if you have covered this or not. How would a SEL private pilot go about qualifying to fly for CALFIRE?
no
They still short on pilots?
yes. C-130's inbound.
Thanks