Ornithopter is underrated. I completely agree. My personal pet mana rock is Midnight Clock. It let's me just cast my hand away and it's fun to make bell sounds every turn. If I'm bring cheeky, The Great Hendge is a great 2 mana rock.
Completely agree. For me, Midnight Clock is an auto-include on mono-blue decks, and a staple in many others (Alela, Breya, and other artifact decks, for example).
I would class Ornithopter as a mana dork, not a mana rock as mana dorks are creatures that generate mana and mana rocks are artifacts (not artifact creatures) that generate mana.
I feel like Everflowing Chalice deserves a spot as a 2 Mana rock, but maybe you missed it since it kinda costs 0 with Multikicker? Neat little rock that scales though, only downside is that it's colorless Mana. I also think that it would have been nice to give an honorable mention to Springleaf Drum. Most of the 0 or 1 Mana rocks are extremely busted and well known, so I understand why you didn't want to talk about them, but Springleaf Drum is still good in the right deck. Mentioning it here for completeness if anyone is looking for options in the comments. Also I fully agree with the people who are outraged over the lack of inclusion of Midnight Clock, the card is great in a lot of decks.
@@Akantor5 it is a mana dork not a rock, same with the ornithopter which is in the list. For the rest, unless you want to mill yourself, it is pretty underwhelming ... The myr cycle (copper, gold, ...) also costs 2 and taps for colored mana. Unless you are playing an artifact deck with a colorless commander I wouldn't be tempted by it.
Good to see Chromatic Lantern in the list. I would have rated it higher as it is the ultimate fixer. On top of that it turns certain utility lands which don't tap for mana (e.g. maze of ith) into actual lands. Of course it generally only really shines in decks with three of more colors yet in some two color decks it can have it's place. For instance in Feather the Redeemed. As you might have multiple instants of the same color in your hand it really helps you play whatever you want both in your turn and your opponent's.
Darksteel ingot was huge when it came out. I remember shopping around for them and buying 50+ of them because before that, the best we got for mana fixing was mana prism. It's been outshined now, but when it came out, was a huge deal. Also, still worth it for decks that destroy everything on the board, IE child of alara.
I'd pick Coldsteel Heart above the diamonds in most cases, there's that edge-case benefit in monocolored decks if you somehow end up needing off-colored mana!
On the two rock lost, I would consider mana cost reduction as a rock as well, in which case, the medallions, familiars, and monuments should all be counted.
Sceptre of Eternal Glory is an absolute powerhouse in mono-colored decks. Even though green doesn't need mana rocks, it did work in my Green Omnath deck before I moved it to another deck. It now has a home in my mono black and mono red decks.
I’ve always loved the Signets, but they really shine when you stick a Mana Reflection. I fell out of love with Thought Vessel when I built a deck that accidentally drew my whole library. I swapped it and Reliquary Tower for graveyard shuffle effects. 😂 I’m going to give Cursed Mirror and a couple of these others a try for sure. Great topic!
played empowered autogenerator in my colorless deck paired with a couple cheaper mana rocks, unwinding clock, helvault, and my commander, The Peregrine Dynamo. It was hilarious exiling two creatures every upkeep, but it put a massive target on my back.
My favorite, very niche 3 MV rock is Cryptolith fragment. Comes in tapped, taps for 1 of any color, each player loses a life. Neheb the Eternal however makes it read add 1 now and 3 later.
Oh, yeah... I play it in my Belbe and my Vilis decks. In Belbe it reads: Add {1}, then add {6} on your post-combat main phase. In Vilis it reads: Add {1}, draw a card. The funny thing is that I also have Vilis in the 99 of Belbe. You can imagine the Cryptolith Fragment with both of those on the battlefield, at the same time... ;-)
I love basalt monolith because my favorite thing to do is when someone asks, "anyone have a response?" I'll happily declare "yes!" Then durdle the monolith like 5 times and pass priority
I remember way back when guilded lotus was a staple in my playgroup and we thought it was such a big deal to get one out. 1 game lasted for hours on end back then. Now we play 4-5 games in 2 hours and change up decks each game. I miss those old slow ass games.
I hear that. We still generally play those long-ass games(usually assisted by a case of beer). We sped up with everyone else over the years, but identified that we were getting more competitive, which wasn't what we wanted. Now we do it with many of the same powerful cards, but we play stupid Rube Goldberg win-cons. It speeds up the early part of the game and extends the midpoint, where everyone gets to do cool stuff.
What about midnight clock? It's a solid rock in any blue deck, and I gives you a great upside of shuffling your hand and graveyard back into your deck and getting a full grip of 7 cards.
I do run lavabrink floodgates in my Ashling the Pilgrim deck. it's more of a fun card than a good card. It usually ends up getting ticked up and sacrificed by my opponents after another boardwipe has recently happened resulting in very little value or just gets sacced before i can even untap with it. Also I'm a little surprised we didn't see midnight clock or staff of compleation at 3 (at least compared to commander's sphere)
I generally use mind stone (hedron archive and command sphere as well) as my first-draft mana rocks. filler ramp for early iterations of a deck that can easily be taken out for either better forms of ramp for the deck or other cards entirely.
Really good vid. Glad you didn't waste time with the 0/1 MV stuff. Certainly a few I didn't know and a couple of others I knew, but hadn't thought of their upsides enough. I'd be delighted if you did more 'basics' if you can skim the obvious and dwell more on the subtle value/s. Well done.
Ive been swapping 2 mana rocks for 3 mana rocks with utilities. I know theyre a lot slower and less powerful, but i find those 3 mana rocks just a bit more fun to play.
I love Cursed Mirror. I'd pay 3 for the clone effect alone, the mana rock is just a nice bonus. Stonespeaker Crystal though? I never heard of it but I'm going to definitely run that.
I think the key thing to note about the monoliths is that they are not really rocks, they are combo pieces. Both have at least a dozen ways to make infinite mana with another card. If you are not playing infinite combos, then there is pretty much never a good reason to play them. If you are, they represent the easiest (and earliest printed) infinite mana combos. This takes them totally outside the realm of thran dynamo, that doesn't have an untap ability.
With Mesmeric Orb in play you can also go out in style by decking yourself. Or if you're feeling like a degenerate, combo win in myriad different ways.
@@JushakF Exactly. Any deck with built in infinite mana combos should be winning immediately, or its built wrong. There are so many ways to turn that mana into a win.
I would argue that Sol Ring isn’t always an autoinclude. My Riku of Two Reflections deck would rather have Spells and Creatures doing ramping (including by searching lands), and my Sliver Overlord would rather have colored pips.
EDHRECast had a cool episode breaking down sol ring usage. They talked about which decks had it show up the least I would argue that's it's an autoinclude if you have to justify why NOT to put it in your deck instead of why to put it in. For example, I don't run it in my jarad, golgari lich lord deck, because I heavily care about creatures on the battlefield or in the bin (52 creatures)
Arcane Signet has the same problem as Commander's Sphere and Command Tower: their dependency on color identity, and their wording, essentially blanks them with colorless commanders. Also, no Inspired Statuary? It's a 3-mana rock that dodges Null Rod effects, at its floor.
Why stop at 4 mana rocks? Higher cost mana rocks that deserve a mention: Gilded lotus, The Mightstone and Weakstone, Coveted Jewel, Chromatic Orrey. Also if ornithoper of paradise is in it can we give a shout out to metal worker. All very playable
Can you do this but ramp cards? Of course these count as ramp, but it would be cool if you had top 2 mana ramp like rampant growth, 3 mana like cultivate, 4 mana like sky shroud claim, etc. maybe one list of green one list of non green tho, lol. Cause if you did non green, smothering tithe makes the list, but it might not on an all colors list
No, the legend rule cares about two permanents under your control having the same name, not about permanent type. I copied this rule. 704.5j If two or more legendary permanents with the same name are controlled by the same player, that player chooses one of them, and the rest are put into their owners’ graveyards. This is called the “legend rule.”
I tried using it for a bit but unless you have both a board and a lot of carddraw it kinda goes to waste, leaving you without a hand or a bunch of unused mana.
Putting a mention for Honor-Worn Shaku in any deck that you like Relic of Legends. it is colorless mana, so not as nice, but still gets you the 2+ mana every turn. Has been an all star in my Captain Sisay and Norin the Wary decks for as long as EDH has existed.
So far, I've only built one deck in paper, and it's a landfall deck (Omnath, Locus of Rage). I have 0 mana rocks in that deck. I have a few others that I've planned out, but don't have the cards for yet. I will certainly be referencing this video and reviewing my decks before assembling them. There were definitely a few in this video that I missed that would be good fits.
I just got into commander and got the eldrazi precon. I changed a few things, but the amount of times I go 4th land, thran dynamo, sculpting steel, palladium myr, pass is ridiculous. You go from 4 mana to 12 on turn 4, sometimes.
I’ve always loved Skyclave Relic, but never had a spot I found it truly shined. In Vishgraz, the Doomhive it’s amazing. Turn 3 it sets me up for a Turn 4 Vishgraz, and later in the game, if I’m lucky, I can end up with more than two copies if I kick it because of the token doubling effects in the deck.
I have a Mairsil deck and Liquimetal Torque is an all star there. Getting to remove enchantments in grixis sure feels good. Shenanigans and Viashino Heretic are my repeated artifact removal there.
I feel like Throne of Eldraine deserves a call out. This thing is an absolute monster in Mono Decks. 4 colored mana for 5 is crazy, with restrictions that aren’t restrictions in a Mono Deck. The recurring draw-two for three mana is just gravy. I think a lot more decks could benefit from Throne’s inclusion.
Mind stone is still a 2 mana rock that taps for 1. Its better in some cases than a fellwar stone. Ornithopter of paradise is a mana dork, not a mana rock.
You didnt have Staff of Completetion. It is so versatile. Especially if you have life to spare. I may be biased because it does abolutely everything my Piru the Volatile deck wants. 1. It destroys Piru the turn it comes out for the wipe and lifegain effect. 2. Im playing a whole lot of mana rocks because i know im gonna need to recast my commander multiple times. Its a mana rock. 3. Im playing a planeswalker variation and they dont get killed by the Piru wipe. Being able to proliferate is awesome. 4. Its a Mardu deck so card draw is always welcome 5. I tend to have 15 to 20 mana on board by turn 6. 5 mana to proliferate two times or 3 times in a turn or draw some extra cards is so cool. 6. It gains so much life even though its not a lifegain deck and one boom from Piru will put me in a really safe place that i can take advantage of the cost of life it requires. It may be the absolute perfect place for this card.
I totally get why Wand of the Worldsoul wasn't mentioned, as of this videos release MotM was like a month old, give or take... but it's one of the very best 3 mana rocks in White especially now, and it's still under two dollars which is crazy. Giving any big spell convoke when there's so much token play especially in White really cheats things out and in token decks that already dread the board wipe and stop it at all costs, it just scales perfectly with your game plan anyways. I'm running in Zinnia now and I don't need to explain how that just compounds. Between 1 or 2 tutors and some etb scrying and card draw it is not difficult to see this every single game, and while in Zinnia I keep my creature mana curve hugging as low to the floor as I can, I use Worldsoul to cheat out those massive cost and obnoxious sorceries in Jeskai, and when I've got tokens fueling the costlier cast and all my true mana open, good luck to anyone trying to win the counterspell mini game with me.
There’s no way Worn Powerstone is worse than Commander’s sphere, tapping for 2 mana is something only 4 mana rocks can do usually, getting that for 3 mana even entering tapped is huge.
@@edhdeckbuilding i know you like underwhelming commanders, but why jegantha instead of ramos or even jenson carthalion (i cant remember if thats the right card, but im talking about the selesnya guy that gives wubrg and rewards you for casting spells of all colors from the Painbow precon)
@@edhdeckbuilding filtering mana isn’t necessarily a bad thing since you need wubrg to activate legacy weapon right? Color fixing is always the most awkward part of playing 5c decks for me.
@ Demo Overall I think that within the confines of the casting cost that your list was pretty good. However I think you should reconsider a few that I can think of. 2 mana coldsteel heart. It’s ok but I think better than some you listed. 3 mana heraldic banner. In my opinion it is a pretty strong mana rock for its casting cost. Obviously it shines in a creatures matter and/or tribal anthem theme. Manascape refractor - in the right deck this is the best 3 mana rock I know of. The utility on it is nuts. In order to really take advantage of it you need to be either using a good amount of either utility lands or multi-mana lands….it also works on opponent’s lands as well so if your opponent has a Gaia’s cradle; great now so do you!!! Obviously it is not good everywhere so if you mostly run basics then this artifact is moot.
Kodama is one of my main ramp engines in the 99 of my deck... I use his ability to etb sol talisman for free after I play a land, it's basically a mana crypt that only costs $1. Same goes for lotus bloom literally being a black lotus with kodama... If you're playing green I would say kodama should be your main creature for ramp if you can get him out by turn 4. Other than that I only use sol ring because green ramp is already busted overall.
Relic of Legends is the most absurd card in my Jodah "Commander Tribal" deck, and its ALWAYS my first tutor target. That card is secretly a 3 mana rock that gives 10+ mana per turn...
the sol best mana rock for commander is obviously sol ring but i dont play it in my decks that have a commander which mana cost doesnt at least include 2 generic. I bought multiples of it and Arcane Signet some years ago. Im even considering removing it from all my decks. 2 free deckslots yay! (same with command tower actually)
Personally, I would throw the medallions in to this conversation. They are 2 drop cost reducers, but I would much rather slot them in to a mono or even two colored deck than a lot of mana rocks. They lead to much more explosive turns. My mana rock, without ways to untap, only gives me a single burst of mana and any of the two drop ones only gain me one mana, except the Grim manalith, but you can say it gets you -1 without something to reliably untapn it. The medallions will typically net you two or more mana per turn. Definitely deserve a spot in the two drops, though I suppose you do have to ask the question should mana reducers be included? If things that tap for colorless only are, then yes.
I just can't get on board with taking out Mind Stone. It's there when you need the mana early, and cycles itself away in the late. I don't personally have Commander's Sphere in any of my decks because it's a 3 for 1. I just feel like that single pip of colored mana isn't worth a 3 slot just to sac later. The ratio isn't there for me. I'd play with 3 mana rocks if they truly synergize with the deck, but just sacing to draw a card isn't worth 3 mana.
You can’t think of 2 mana rocks on only turn two. What if turn two you played a arcane signet and turn three you draw an ornithopter of paradise and want to still play a three drop? If you had a 2 mana rock like Mind Stone you could cast mind stone and still play your 3 drop. But with ornithopter you now have to wait till turn four when you should be now casting a 6 drop or two 3 drops etc. coming in untapped or with haste is a huge deal
Me too, along with Clock of Omens (one of my favorite cards in all of MtG, thanks to its utter simplicity and effectiveness). And in a heavy draw deck (like Jhoira), it can consistently be untapped without spending {3}.
Me too, the Creature type takes precedence over it being an Artifact. With the criteria he mentioned (being useful to block, later on), he should have included the Myr cycle over the diamonds, as they are basically the same.
when I saw relic of ancients I knew I had to immediately order it for my King Macar deck (same with Liquimetal Torque) edit: okay I need Patriarch Seal right now lol
Generically, no, but for specific decks, yes. GILDED LOTUS: For the Archaeomancer + Ghostly Flicker combo. And also for Orvar (which also has infinite combos with Gilded Lotus). I also put it in my ridiculously mana intensive mono-white Brisela deck (Bruna, the Fading Light as commander, and Gisela, the Broken Blade in the 99). PRISMATIC GEOSCOPE: I use it in my Jodah, Archmage Eternal deck. Adds an additional WUBRG to cast expensive spells. (Most of the ramp in that deck is land ramp, so I get all basic land types quite quickly).
I mostly stop playing three mana rock because it's just too slow in general like all my deck have sol ring, arcana signet, fellwar stone and all the talisman and signet unless I play green I don't put anyrock but sol ring because land is safer. The only time I have three mana rock if that card have synergy like the celestus for my tovolar deck
I think chromatic lantern has fallen off over the years because the land mana bases back when it was first printed in RTR were far weaker than what we have now. Battlebond duals, slow lands, triomes, etc. have made lantern less of a necessity. Even with 5 color decks, all it takes is a little compitence when deck building and you shouldn't have trouble casting what you want and you can free the lanterns slot for something more useful. On a completely different side note, a lot of people saying ornithopter of paradise doesn't count as a rock and here I am with my mind blown that I haven't even been considering what's essentially a second arcane signet in my decks this entire time.
You aren't wrong in your reasoning of why chromatic lantern has fallen off over the years. That being said, I still think it is the best '3-mana mana rock' around. Why? Because it totally fixes you. Yes you can easily build a mana base that allows you to play any color you want but even the best mana base will force you to make choices, as you might have only one or two mana of a specific color. (especially in 3 colors or more decks) Personally I got a feather the redeemed deck and although it is just 2 colors I play lantern in it. It is just so nice to be able to play any number of red or white spells without worrying. I also do not consider it an actual mana rock but as a color fixer. The fact it taps for mana is just an added bonus.
Ornithopter is underrated. I completely agree.
My personal pet mana rock is Midnight Clock. It let's me just cast my hand away and it's fun to make bell sounds every turn.
If I'm bring cheeky, The Great Hendge is a great 2 mana rock.
Mid might clock is a blue staple to me!
Completely agree. For me, Midnight Clock is an auto-include on mono-blue decks, and a staple in many others (Alela, Breya, and other artifact decks, for example).
Came straight to the comment section to make sure someone mentioned midnight clock lol
I would class Ornithopter as a mana dork, not a mana rock as mana dorks are creatures that generate mana and mana rocks are artifacts (not artifact creatures) that generate mana.
I’ve been obsessed with relic of legends ever since it came out, glad to see it getting some recognition
I feel like Everflowing Chalice deserves a spot as a 2 Mana rock, but maybe you missed it since it kinda costs 0 with Multikicker? Neat little rock that scales though, only downside is that it's colorless Mana.
I also think that it would have been nice to give an honorable mention to Springleaf Drum. Most of the 0 or 1 Mana rocks are extremely busted and well known, so I understand why you didn't want to talk about them, but Springleaf Drum is still good in the right deck. Mentioning it here for completeness if anyone is looking for options in the comments.
Also I fully agree with the people who are outraged over the lack of inclusion of Midnight Clock, the card is great in a lot of decks.
First thing I was thinking was Everflowing Chalice. Definitely should have been in the video on the same logic as Skyclave Relic.
Well skyclave is still a 3 mana value spell, chalice is 0.
What about Millikin? Is the one live to low, idk.
Any good in recursion artifact deck? 😅🙈
@@Akantor5 it is a mana dork not a rock, same with the ornithopter which is in the list. For the rest, unless you want to mill yourself, it is pretty underwhelming ... The myr cycle (copper, gold, ...) also costs 2 and taps for colored mana. Unless you are playing an artifact deck with a colorless commander I wouldn't be tempted by it.
@@Morrodin-WH40K Technically, it is both.
Good to see Chromatic Lantern in the list. I would have rated it higher as it is the ultimate fixer. On top of that it turns certain utility lands which don't tap for mana (e.g. maze of ith) into actual lands. Of course it generally only really shines in decks with three of more colors yet in some two color decks it can have it's place. For instance in Feather the Redeemed. As you might have multiple instants of the same color in your hand it really helps you play whatever you want both in your turn and your opponent's.
What timing! Ive spent the last two days stuggeling to decide on what rocks to play, there are so many to choose from
Stonespeaker crystal is a card I completely forgot about, really does so much for you for a colourless card
Darksteel ingot was huge when it came out. I remember shopping around for them and buying 50+ of them because before that, the best we got for mana fixing was mana prism. It's been outshined now, but when it came out, was a huge deal. Also, still worth it for decks that destroy everything on the board, IE child of alara.
I know you didn't talk about 5 mana cost, but tone of the guild pact in the right deck is so good
I'd pick Coldsteel Heart above the diamonds in most cases, there's that edge-case benefit in monocolored decks if you somehow end up needing off-colored mana!
Agree, altho i belive the snow upside might be more common than needing off colors.
On the two rock lost, I would consider mana cost reduction as a rock as well, in which case, the medallions, familiars, and monuments should all be counted.
I would recommend you review unpopular 0 and 1 cost mana rocks as well. Jeweled amulet and everflowing chalice each have their place.
Sceptre of Eternal Glory is an absolute powerhouse in mono-colored decks. Even though green doesn't need mana rocks, it did work in my Green Omnath deck before I moved it to another deck. It now has a home in my mono black and mono red decks.
I’ve always loved the Signets, but they really shine when you stick a Mana Reflection. I fell out of love with Thought Vessel when I built a deck that accidentally drew my whole library. I swapped it and Reliquary Tower for graveyard shuffle effects. 😂 I’m going to give Cursed Mirror and a couple of these others a try for sure.
Great topic!
played empowered autogenerator in my colorless deck paired with a couple cheaper mana rocks, unwinding clock, helvault, and my commander, The Peregrine Dynamo. It was hilarious exiling two creatures every upkeep, but it put a massive target on my back.
*every upkeep including my opponents
My favorite, very niche 3 MV rock is Cryptolith fragment. Comes in tapped, taps for 1 of any color, each player loses a life. Neheb the Eternal however makes it read add 1 now and 3 later.
Oh, yeah... I play it in my Belbe and my Vilis decks.
In Belbe it reads: Add {1}, then add {6} on your post-combat main phase.
In Vilis it reads: Add {1}, draw a card.
The funny thing is that I also have Vilis in the 99 of Belbe. You can imagine the Cryptolith Fragment with both of those on the battlefield, at the same time... ;-)
Man i love it when my mana rocks are on theme
I love basalt monolith because my favorite thing to do is when someone asks, "anyone have a response?" I'll happily declare "yes!" Then durdle the monolith like 5 times and pass priority
I remember way back when guilded lotus was a staple in my playgroup and we thought it was such a big deal to get one out. 1 game lasted for hours on end back then. Now we play 4-5 games in 2 hours and change up decks each game. I miss those old slow ass games.
I hear that. We still generally play those long-ass games(usually assisted by a case of beer). We sped up with everyone else over the years, but identified that we were getting more competitive, which wasn't what we wanted. Now we do it with many of the same powerful cards, but we play stupid Rube Goldberg win-cons. It speeds up the early part of the game and extends the midpoint, where everyone gets to do cool stuff.
Wand of the worldsoul, my man. My favorite of the new 3 CMC colored rocks.
All star
One of my favorite underrated mana rock is Manascape Refractor.
It's pretty good copying my opponent's lands ability
Skyclave Relic and Replicating Ring (it seems you've missed that one) are awesome in Urza, Chief Artificer
What about midnight clock? It's a solid rock in any blue deck, and I gives you a great upside of shuffling your hand and graveyard back into your deck and getting a full grip of 7 cards.
Everflowing Chalice is slept on imo.
I do run lavabrink floodgates in my Ashling the Pilgrim deck. it's more of a fun card than a good card. It usually ends up getting ticked up and sacrificed by my opponents after another boardwipe has recently happened resulting in very little value or just gets sacced before i can even untap with it. Also I'm a little surprised we didn't see midnight clock or staff of compleation at 3 (at least compared to commander's sphere)
14:58 was expecting to see the Medallions in the top 10 of the two cmc mana rocks
I generally use mind stone (hedron archive and command sphere as well) as my first-draft mana rocks. filler ramp for early iterations of a deck that can easily be taken out for either better forms of ramp for the deck or other cards entirely.
Really good vid. Glad you didn't waste time with the 0/1 MV stuff. Certainly a few I didn't know and a couple of others I knew, but hadn't thought of their upsides enough. I'd be delighted if you did more 'basics' if you can skim the obvious and dwell more on the subtle value/s. Well done.
Ive been swapping 2 mana rocks for 3 mana rocks with utilities. I know theyre a lot slower and less powerful, but i find those 3 mana rocks just a bit more fun to play.
I did the opposite^^
@seriaon whatever works for you man. :)
It is good to find a balance
Fun is the name of the game. I did the same.
Sol ring, signet, chromatic lantern, and thought vessel never lets me down (3 color so lantern is really helpful)
I love Cursed Mirror. I'd pay 3 for the clone effect alone, the mana rock is just a nice bonus. Stonespeaker Crystal though? I never heard of it but I'm going to definitely run that.
I think the key thing to note about the monoliths is that they are not really rocks, they are combo pieces. Both have at least a dozen ways to make infinite mana with another card. If you are not playing infinite combos, then there is pretty much never a good reason to play them. If you are, they represent the easiest (and earliest printed) infinite mana combos. This takes them totally outside the realm of thran dynamo, that doesn't have an untap ability.
With Mesmeric Orb in play you can also go out in style by decking yourself.
Or if you're feeling like a degenerate, combo win in myriad different ways.
@@JushakF Exactly. Any deck with built in infinite mana combos should be winning immediately, or its built wrong. There are so many ways to turn that mana into a win.
I would argue that Sol Ring isn’t always an autoinclude. My Riku of Two Reflections deck would rather have Spells and Creatures doing ramping (including by searching lands), and my Sliver Overlord would rather have colored pips.
Demo argued the same thing in many videos now :)
I agree. For example, I don't use it in my Jodah, Archmage Eternal deck. No place for colorless mana, there.
EDHRECast had a cool episode breaking down sol ring usage. They talked about which decks had it show up the least
I would argue that's it's an autoinclude if you have to justify why NOT to put it in your deck instead of why to put it in. For example, I don't run it in my jarad, golgari lich lord deck, because I heavily care about creatures on the battlefield or in the bin (52 creatures)
@@overtone55 I think I’ve seen that one. That might be where I first thought about Sol Ring in my decks.
Pointless argument imho, the cases are so niche they are irrelevant.
I just had a buddy play Lavabrink Floodgates. It was pretty cool as I had never seen it before.
Top exchange control cards, just built a deck around it and am moving to foiling it out. It's Jon Irenicus. Infect with exchange control effects.
Love your vids man! Keep em coming!!
Arcane Signet has the same problem as Commander's Sphere and Command Tower: their dependency on color identity, and their wording, essentially blanks them with colorless commanders.
Also, no Inspired Statuary? It's a 3-mana rock that dodges Null Rod effects, at its floor.
Why stop at 4 mana rocks? Higher cost mana rocks that deserve a mention: Gilded lotus, The Mightstone and Weakstone, Coveted Jewel, Chromatic Orrey. Also if ornithoper of paradise is in it can we give a shout out to metal worker. All very playable
Relic of Legends #1, agree completely! An incredible value piece, one of the best new mana rocks!
Can you do this but ramp cards? Of course these count as ramp, but it would be cool if you had top 2 mana ramp like rampant growth, 3 mana like cultivate, 4 mana like sky shroud claim, etc. maybe one list of green one list of non green tho, lol. Cause if you did non green, smothering tithe makes the list, but it might not on an all colors list
Elementalist's Palette can quickly stack to add 4+ mana in a X spells matters deck. Costs 3 mana to play and has a narrow application.
Does the machine God effigy dodge the legend rule as its not a legendary creature anymore?
No, the legend rule cares about two permanents under your control having the same name, not about permanent type. I copied this rule.
704.5j If two or more legendary permanents with the same name are controlled by the same player, that player chooses one of them, and the rest are put into their owners’ graveyards. This is called the “legend rule.”
yeah unfortunately no. but doesn't stop you from copying your opponents commanders.
What about the new white 3 mv mana rock that allows a spell you cast to have convoke?
I tried using it for a bit but unless you have both a board and a lot of carddraw it kinda goes to waste, leaving you without a hand or a bunch of unused mana.
I use Chromatic Lantern in any deck that's 3+ colors; it makes a big difference
Putting a mention for Honor-Worn Shaku in any deck that you like Relic of Legends. it is colorless mana, so not as nice, but still gets you the 2+ mana every turn. Has been an all star in my Captain Sisay and Norin the Wary decks for as long as EDH has existed.
So far, I've only built one deck in paper, and it's a landfall deck (Omnath, Locus of Rage). I have 0 mana rocks in that deck. I have a few others that I've planned out, but don't have the cards for yet. I will certainly be referencing this video and reviewing my decks before assembling them. There were definitely a few in this video that I missed that would be good fits.
The one mana rock I put in my landfall deck was Khalni Gem. You get two lands back to hand to play them again.
@@TheSkepticalCat - Ooh, I like that
I just got into commander and got the eldrazi precon. I changed a few things, but the amount of times I go 4th land, thran dynamo, sculpting steel, palladium myr, pass is ridiculous. You go from 4 mana to 12 on turn 4, sometimes.
is Basalt Monolith any good with an Colorless Commander deck like the new Eldariz deck?
I think the mana myrs are great in decks that try to go for turbo-ing Mechtitan
I put my Liquimetal Torque in my new Gimbal deck and I know it's a 3 color deck, but boy oh boy, if that thing works there.
Wouldnt ornithopter fit more as a mana dork than a mana rock?
Yes
I’ve always loved Skyclave Relic, but never had a spot I found it truly shined. In Vishgraz, the Doomhive it’s amazing. Turn 3 it sets me up for a Turn 4 Vishgraz, and later in the game, if I’m lucky, I can end up with more than two copies if I kick it because of the token doubling effects in the deck.
i love it in jor kadeen cause it basically guarantees metalcraft for the rest of the game.
@@empty5013 That’s a really awesome synergy. Love to see it.
My current favorite Mana rock is the wand of worldsoul. It’s convoke on a stick and in my token deck it does work
What are your thoughts about the border borderposts like fieldmist borderpost?
Does the Medallion cycle count as rocks? Cuz they're amazing. Also, no love for Coldsteel Heart? 😢
Medallions are fantastic.
I have a Mairsil deck and Liquimetal Torque is an all star there. Getting to remove enchantments in grixis sure feels good. Shenanigans and Viashino Heretic are my repeated artifact removal there.
I feel like Throne of Eldraine deserves a call out.
This thing is an absolute monster in Mono Decks. 4 colored mana for 5 is crazy, with restrictions that aren’t restrictions in a Mono Deck.
The recurring draw-two for three mana is just gravy.
I think a lot more decks could benefit from Throne’s inclusion.
Mind stone is still a 2 mana rock that taps for 1. Its better in some cases than a fellwar stone.
Ornithopter of paradise is a mana dork, not a mana rock.
You didnt have Staff of Completetion. It is so versatile. Especially if you have life to spare. I may be biased because it does abolutely everything my Piru the Volatile deck wants.
1. It destroys Piru the turn it comes out for the wipe and lifegain effect.
2. Im playing a whole lot of mana rocks because i know im gonna need to recast my commander multiple times. Its a mana rock.
3. Im playing a planeswalker variation and they dont get killed by the Piru wipe. Being able to proliferate is awesome.
4. Its a Mardu deck so card draw is always welcome
5. I tend to have 15 to 20 mana on board by turn 6. 5 mana to proliferate two times or 3 times in a turn or draw some extra cards is so cool.
6. It gains so much life even though its not a lifegain deck and one boom from Piru will put me in a really safe place that i can take advantage of the cost of life it requires.
It may be the absolute perfect place for this card.
Does machine gods effigy work with Sharuum?
The empowered autogenerator is really good with untap shenanigans like in derevi.
I totally get why Wand of the Worldsoul wasn't mentioned, as of this videos release MotM was like a month old, give or take... but it's one of the very best 3 mana rocks in White especially now, and it's still under two dollars which is crazy. Giving any big spell convoke when there's so much token play especially in White really cheats things out and in token decks that already dread the board wipe and stop it at all costs, it just scales perfectly with your game plan anyways. I'm running in Zinnia now and I don't need to explain how that just compounds. Between 1 or 2 tutors and some etb scrying and card draw it is not difficult to see this every single game, and while in Zinnia I keep my creature mana curve hugging as low to the floor as I can, I use Worldsoul to cheat out those massive cost and obnoxious sorceries in Jeskai, and when I've got tokens fueling the costlier cast and all my true mana open, good luck to anyone trying to win the counterspell mini game with me.
Huh, Signets and Mind Stone are my favourite 2-value rocks. They are affordable, easy to play and quite stable at this job.
Oh look, lunch time, new video!
No mention of Midnight Clock :(
a card i have never used. and also a card that i've rarely seen actually go off.
Please tell me he knows basalt monolith is run for combos...
There’s no way Worn Powerstone is worse than Commander’s sphere, tapping for 2 mana is something only 4 mana rocks can do usually, getting that for 3 mana even entering tapped is huge.
I really want to use the powerstone. It is the 3 mana for an ETB tapped rock that hurts.
Do you have speech to text naming the chapters? Got some wild and fun names over there. Machine Gun's Effigy!
If you were to have a 3, 4, and 5 color deck (all three options), which commanders would you choose?
looking at a toluz deck right now. 4 would have to be some partner combination and 5 would be jegantha so i could use legacy weapon
@@edhdeckbuilding i know you like underwhelming commanders, but why jegantha instead of ramos or even jenson carthalion (i cant remember if thats the right card, but im talking about the selesnya guy that gives wubrg and rewards you for casting spells of all colors from the Painbow precon)
@@connorl0204 jenson doesn't add mana, only filters it. and ramos wouldn't be great with the cards i'm playing that are mostly mono-colored.
@@edhdeckbuilding filtering mana isn’t necessarily a bad thing since you need wubrg to activate legacy weapon right? Color fixing is always the most awkward part of playing 5c decks for me.
the only thing that I like about the signets is that they can make colorless lands or rocks make color
@ Demo
Overall I think that within the confines of the casting cost that your list was pretty good.
However I think you should reconsider a few that I can think of.
2 mana
coldsteel heart. It’s ok but I think better than some you listed.
3 mana
heraldic banner. In my opinion it is a pretty strong mana rock for its casting cost.
Obviously it shines in a creatures matter and/or tribal anthem theme.
Manascape refractor - in the right deck this is the best 3 mana rock I know of. The utility on it is nuts.
In order to really take advantage of it you need to be either using a good amount of either utility lands or multi-mana lands….it also works on opponent’s lands as well so if your opponent has a Gaia’s cradle; great now so do you!!!
Obviously it is not good everywhere so if you mostly run basics then this artifact is moot.
Kodama is one of my main ramp engines in the 99 of my deck... I use his ability to etb sol talisman for free after I play a land, it's basically a mana crypt that only costs $1. Same goes for lotus bloom literally being a black lotus with kodama... If you're playing green I would say kodama should be your main creature for ramp if you can get him out by turn 4. Other than that I only use sol ring because green ramp is already busted overall.
I differentiate between mana rocks and mana dorks. Things that die to creature removal are too fragile.
One more on the 3 mana that's really useful, is midnight clock.
31:48 Basalt/Grim Monolith are probably better thought of as combo pieces than mana rocks.
Ever flowing Chalice and Springleaf drum are great. I'd rather chalice over thought vessel
Tapping the Chalice for 4+ mana feels great.
20:22 pro tip, don’t untap your creature until they swing at you. Give them a false sense of a free hit on you
Also, I'm very surprised so many ppl miss manascape refractor as it should be in the top 3 of 3 mana rocks, just a ridiculous card.
Relic of Legends is the most absurd card in my Jodah "Commander Tribal" deck, and its ALWAYS my first tutor target. That card is secretly a 3 mana rock that gives 10+ mana per turn...
If Sceptre of Eternal Glory had a reprint that didn't have a necron on one the art, then I would definitely run it.
hi, i like phial of galadriel for a 3 mana rock. from lord of the rings. love your videos thank you!
the sol best mana rock for commander is obviously sol ring
but i dont play it in my decks that have a commander which mana cost doesnt at least include 2 generic.
I bought multiples of it and Arcane Signet some years ago. Im even considering removing it from all my decks. 2 free deckslots yay! (same with command tower actually)
Personally, I would throw the medallions in to this conversation. They are 2 drop cost reducers, but I would much rather slot them in to a mono or even two colored deck than a lot of mana rocks. They lead to much more explosive turns. My mana rock, without ways to untap, only gives me a single burst of mana and any of the two drop ones only gain me one mana, except the Grim manalith, but you can say it gets you -1 without something to reliably untapn it. The medallions will typically net you two or more mana per turn. Definitely deserve a spot in the two drops, though I suppose you do have to ask the question should mana reducers be included? If things that tap for colorless only are, then yes.
Crowded crypt looks sweet, going into my phage deck
I just can't get on board with taking out Mind Stone. It's there when you need the mana early, and cycles itself away in the late. I don't personally have Commander's Sphere in any of my decks because it's a 3 for 1. I just feel like that single pip of colored mana isn't worth a 3 slot just to sac later. The ratio isn't there for me. I'd play with 3 mana rocks if they truly synergize with the deck, but just sacing to draw a card isn't worth 3 mana.
You can’t think of 2 mana rocks on only turn two. What if turn two you played a arcane signet and turn three you draw an ornithopter of paradise and want to still play a three drop? If you had a 2 mana rock like Mind Stone you could cast mind stone and still play your 3 drop. But with ornithopter you now have to wait till turn four when you should be now casting a 6 drop or two 3 drops etc. coming in untapped or with haste is a huge deal
Think my favorite 3 mana rock is command sphere so good
With my monolith I always run the keys to untap them
Me too, along with Clock of Omens (one of my favorite cards in all of MtG, thanks to its utter simplicity and effectiveness). And in a heavy draw deck (like Jhoira), it can consistently be untapped without spending {3}.
What are your thoughts on the medallion series? I guess they’re technically not mana rocks, but have a similar purpose.
def better than any mana rocks in a vacuum, but technically does create mana.
i use them all in my mono-colored decks. but anymore colors decreases their value greatly.
Woah, wait! No Midnight Clock? That card slaps!
Basalt monolith is only good if your comboing or have some other way to untap it
honestly i think i ranked it too high.
I would have to say that Ornithopter of Paradise is a 'mana dork', not a 'rock'.
Me too, the Creature type takes precedence over it being an Artifact.
With the criteria he mentioned (being useful to block, later on), he should have included the Myr cycle over the diamonds, as they are basically the same.
I play stryxhaven stadium as a three mana rocks.
Got one in my Marisi token deck. Its pretty cool.
Springleaf drum! 1 mana, tap it and a creature, add one mana of any color.
Notable omissions:
-Midnight Clock
-Altar of the Pantheon
-Astral Cornucopia/EverFlowing Challice
And
-Replicating Ring!
when I saw relic of ancients I knew I had to immediately order it for my King Macar deck (same with Liquimetal Torque)
edit: okay I need Patriarch Seal right now lol
Do you think there are any 5 mana rocks worth playing?
Generically, no, but for specific decks, yes.
GILDED LOTUS: For the Archaeomancer + Ghostly Flicker combo. And also for Orvar (which also has infinite combos with Gilded Lotus). I also put it in my ridiculously mana intensive mono-white Brisela deck (Bruna, the Fading Light as commander, and Gisela, the Broken Blade in the 99).
PRISMATIC GEOSCOPE: I use it in my Jodah, Archmage Eternal deck. Adds an additional WUBRG to cast expensive spells. (Most of the ramp in that deck is land ramp, so I get all basic land types quite quickly).
that grim monolith is just broken because there's so many cards that can force it to untap. for example paradox engine and unwinding clock.
I mostly stop playing three mana rock because it's just too slow in general like all my deck have sol ring, arcana signet, fellwar stone and all the talisman and signet unless I play green I don't put anyrock but sol ring because land is safer. The only time I have three mana rock if that card have synergy like the celestus for my tovolar deck
Firemind vessel?
You mentioned playing one or two color decks but no medallions!?
medallions are auto-includes in mono-colored decks if you got em.
I think chromatic lantern has fallen off over the years because the land mana bases back when it was first printed in RTR were far weaker than what we have now. Battlebond duals, slow lands, triomes, etc. have made lantern less of a necessity. Even with 5 color decks, all it takes is a little compitence when deck building and you shouldn't have trouble casting what you want and you can free the lanterns slot for something more useful. On a completely different side note, a lot of people saying ornithopter of paradise doesn't count as a rock and here I am with my mind blown that I haven't even been considering what's essentially a second arcane signet in my decks this entire time.
You aren't wrong in your reasoning of why chromatic lantern has fallen off over the years. That being said, I still think it is the best '3-mana mana rock' around. Why? Because it totally fixes you. Yes you can easily build a mana base that allows you to play any color you want but even the best mana base will force you to make choices, as you might have only one or two mana of a specific color. (especially in 3 colors or more decks) Personally I got a feather the redeemed deck and although it is just 2 colors I play lantern in it. It is just so nice to be able to play any number of red or white spells without worrying. I also do not consider it an actual mana rock but as a color fixer. The fact it taps for mana is just an added bonus.
You are just the sort of casual & weird player I am requiring for this subject, bring out the obscure theme cards for this video.