Thank you for watching! If you haven't already, take the time to check out the rest of the Ancient Lore series at the playlist below, as well as subscribing to The Dan Nation for the regular updates I put out. www.youtube.com/@TheDanNation/subscribe th-cam.com/play/PLz3HFn9IbUgkjnDezofH-cz0_0I6urUOe.html
It is weirdly vague about how Kel'thazad perfected The Plague of Undeath it just states he did so in Scholomance, Heigan the Unclean is the mastermind behind the cauldrons sent them to Kel'thazad at Scholomance. Kel'thazad then infuses them with necromatic sorcery and used samples from the cauldrons to poison the grain kicking off the Scourge of Lordaeron. Before doing that he actually unleashed it on the residents of Caer Darrow killing everyone almost like a test.
RIGHT?!? I would love to know more about how they did it, but it was almost entirely done off screen, so to speak. How much fun would a whole questline have been about this, discovering the origins of the undead plague and how they made something so devastating, even having the Forsaken trying to find out details about it for malicious reasons.
I like to think it was done through kidnapping and experimenting on humans who had caught traditional diseases, isolating the pathogens inside vials and cauldrons and what not, and experimenting through alchemy and death/shadow magic to create a more virulent and deadly plague which raises its victims as undead. Just my little theory anyway.
I love "Kil'Jaeden and the New Deal" at 6:10, it's a lot of fun to picture a demon-lord of unfathomable dark powers taking a break from his millennia of genocidal conquest to, like, find jobs for unemployed orcs during the Orc Great Depression.
You know... for over a decade I felt lost and alone after WotlK launch. All cheered and it became a Legend. For me it destroyed a very good story that started in early Warcraft days and reached its peak with the end of Wc3 TFT. Seeing the old manuals now after 3 minutes into the video - have I finally found my haven?
What I was always a little skeptical about is the ending of the Scourge campaign the Easter Kingdoms. Arthas wiping out Lordaeron is passable for me, but for the others, problems come to arise. We know that the Scourge's main power resided in their massive numbers, with a few necromancers and death knights, and war machines. But these are all the Scourge actually had in their campaign there, no Frost Wyrms or floating Necropolises even. Which is exactly why I believe the Scourge armies were much weaker in Warcraft 3 than what we get to see later in WoW, where the Lich King has many more powerful tools at his disposal. I don't believe this force could have conquered Silvermoon or Dalaran. They had massive numbers, sure, but a large amount of easily killable footmen aren't worth as much when they have to face the most magically guarded places in the entire world. Its especially true for the High Elves, as they've been practicing magic for millenia. I get that the elves were betrayed, but my problem isn't with their defense. It wasn't portrayed as fair matchup, Arthas seemingly triumphed on both occasions without much trouble at all. He almost completely wiped out the Quel'dorei even. The offensive capabilities of magic should outweigh the resilience undead hold, it wouldn't be hard to conjure a massive spell and obliterate an undead horde, considering how 90+% of the Scourge are just mindless zombies. There are necromancers and death knights, which pose a far greater threat than your regular ghoul, but truth is, the latter is the true cause of these victories, because of their sheer numbers. I think this sums up my problems perfectly: A single soldier couldn't run or fight undead forever, a mage on the other hand could teleport away or weave a larger spell to cleanse an entire area. Multiple mages would be capable of even greater magics, even with limited mana pools, they should be able to drive away the hordes of undead.
There is one part of Shadowlands lore I would agree with, as it is supported by past lore and gameplay: that there can be multiple forms of necromancy. We know the classic form of necromancy, that taps into the cosmic force of death (long been in the lore before SL as seen by the cosmic chart). There is also void-based necromancy in the Shadowmoon burial grounds, we have seen fel-based necromancy in Frostfire Ridge as well as misc mobs in fel-based zones, the Drust are life-based necromancy, and so on and so forth. There is no one type of energy or cosmic force which has a monopoly on the ability to puppet a corpse for their own ends or restore a soul to a dead body.
Eehh, okay, I'll quibble here, but I do really appreciate you bringing this up. So the cosmological chart was released with Legion, practically new compared to most of what we reference in this series. Same with a LOT of what you're referencing, especially Shadowmoon and Fristfire from Warlords and Drustvar from BfA. While these are good examples of the expanded forces of magical manipulation, which necromancy is a part of, I don't think there's a good basis for a vast majority of it, minus what we've learned about the interesting divide between void and death when it comes to how shadow power functions. With this, I really do discount pretty much everything past Wrath. Not everyone agrees with me on that, but I feel like that's where I need to draw a line.
@@TheDanNation Well even before Wrath there were lots of cases of dark casters having of all sorts raising undead of some sort from shamans to shadow priests to warlocks, take a look around gatherings of dark themed mobs and you'll find skeletons surprisingly often at least. I only named the examples from WoD forward as they were the most easy to recall. As for "ignoring everything past Wrath" it is clear this isn't the channel for me then, as while believe me while many have been as frustrated with story and lore decisions for a while now it feels very counterproductive to just write off _actual canon_ as not just because it doesn't suit your tastes. It actually hurts your credibility considerably as someone discussing lore by quite a bit, as someone who is not honest and accepting of information can not be trusted to dispense it themselves. You gotta accept the truth, warts and all, if you want to be someone to pass it on.
I've always thought that undead in Warcraft are "immortal", and its just the death magic what keeps them going. I don't even remember from any story that an undead creature would just get old and simply die, that would only be possible if the magic possessing them somehow deteriorated over time. This fantasy is also the same reason zombie apocalypses are impossible to happen irl, the human body couldn't exist in that state without magic (or any living thing for that matter). Like, when I saw the scene in World War Z, where the zombie falls around 50 meters, and is still crawling after the humans is truly hilarious :D
Yeah it's a bit of a shock to some folks when I explain that it use to be that undead were VERY temporary, even the original Death Knights were decaying over time. This whole immortal undead thing in WoW is new as of Warcraft 3.
It’s not really addressed in-game, but I think it’s mentioned in one of the novels that the Forsaken harvest corpses to replace overly-rotted or damaged body parts.
@@HeatherSchrivener-el2mx In most cases I try to actively discredit the novels, especially the Richard Knaak ones, but in this case I REALLY like that, oh my god lol
@@HeatherSchrivener-el2mx Well thats nonsense then. How come undead skeletons never need to replace their bones? Wouldn't every Scourge creature just fall apart eventually by this logic? A rhetorical question, of course they would, which ruins the fantasy concept of a tireless and undying army.
![The Story of: The Druids of the Flame [Warcraft Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7sgHHIEY1YA/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for watching! If you haven't already, take the time to check out the rest of the Ancient Lore series at the playlist below, as well as subscribing to The Dan Nation for the regular updates I put out.
www.youtube.com/@TheDanNation/subscribe
th-cam.com/play/PLz3HFn9IbUgkjnDezofH-cz0_0I6urUOe.html
Big fan of the series, keep up the good work Dan!
The old lore is just so good.
Sometimes, being old has it's advantages!
Necrolytes have always been my favorite warcraft unit.
It is weirdly vague about how Kel'thazad perfected The Plague of Undeath it just states he did so in Scholomance, Heigan the Unclean is the mastermind behind the cauldrons sent them to Kel'thazad at Scholomance. Kel'thazad then infuses them with necromatic sorcery and used samples from the cauldrons to poison the grain kicking off the Scourge of Lordaeron. Before doing that he actually unleashed it on the residents of Caer Darrow killing everyone almost like a test.
RIGHT?!? I would love to know more about how they did it, but it was almost entirely done off screen, so to speak. How much fun would a whole questline have been about this, discovering the origins of the undead plague and how they made something so devastating, even having the Forsaken trying to find out details about it for malicious reasons.
I like to think it was done through kidnapping and experimenting on humans who had caught traditional diseases, isolating the pathogens inside vials and cauldrons and what not, and experimenting through alchemy and death/shadow magic to create a more virulent and deadly plague which raises its victims as undead. Just my little theory anyway.
Lore hype! Always been a fan of the take the warcraft lore had on the undead
I love "Kil'Jaeden and the New Deal" at 6:10, it's a lot of fun to picture a demon-lord of unfathomable dark powers taking a break from his millennia of genocidal conquest to, like, find jobs for unemployed orcs during the Orc Great Depression.
You know... for over a decade I felt lost and alone after WotlK launch. All cheered and it became a Legend. For me it destroyed a very good story that started in early Warcraft days and reached its peak with the end of Wc3 TFT. Seeing the old manuals now after 3 minutes into the video - have I finally found my haven?
Appreciate the good thoughts, enjoy the lore!
What I was always a little skeptical about is the ending of the Scourge campaign the Easter Kingdoms. Arthas wiping out Lordaeron is passable for me, but for the others, problems come to arise.
We know that the Scourge's main power resided in their massive numbers, with a few necromancers and death knights, and war machines. But these are all the Scourge actually had in their campaign there, no Frost Wyrms or floating Necropolises even. Which is exactly why I believe the Scourge armies were much weaker in Warcraft 3 than what we get to see later in WoW, where the Lich King has many more powerful tools at his disposal.
I don't believe this force could have conquered Silvermoon or Dalaran. They had massive numbers, sure, but a large amount of easily killable footmen aren't worth as much when they have to face the most magically guarded places in the entire world. Its especially true for the High Elves, as they've been practicing magic for millenia. I get that the elves were betrayed, but my problem isn't with their defense. It wasn't portrayed as fair matchup, Arthas seemingly triumphed on both occasions without much trouble at all. He almost completely wiped out the Quel'dorei even.
The offensive capabilities of magic should outweigh the resilience undead hold, it wouldn't be hard to conjure a massive spell and obliterate an undead horde, considering how 90+% of the Scourge are just mindless zombies. There are necromancers and death knights, which pose a far greater threat than your regular ghoul, but truth is, the latter is the true cause of these victories, because of their sheer numbers.
I think this sums up my problems perfectly: A single soldier couldn't run or fight undead forever, a mage on the other hand could teleport away or weave a larger spell to cleanse an entire area. Multiple mages would be capable of even greater magics, even with limited mana pools, they should be able to drive away the hordes of undead.
I'm very surprised you don't have more subscribers, especially considering how well put together these videos are. Subbed 👍
Thank you so much, very happy to have you. I hope you enjoy the whole Ancient Lore series!
Awesome, a fellow masshole. I’m now a fan.
YEAH BUDDY!
Great stuff!!!
Thank you!
There is one part of Shadowlands lore I would agree with, as it is supported by past lore and gameplay: that there can be multiple forms of necromancy.
We know the classic form of necromancy, that taps into the cosmic force of death (long been in the lore before SL as seen by the cosmic chart). There is also void-based necromancy in the Shadowmoon burial grounds, we have seen fel-based necromancy in Frostfire Ridge as well as misc mobs in fel-based zones, the Drust are life-based necromancy, and so on and so forth. There is no one type of energy or cosmic force which has a monopoly on the ability to puppet a corpse for their own ends or restore a soul to a dead body.
Eehh, okay, I'll quibble here, but I do really appreciate you bringing this up.
So the cosmological chart was released with Legion, practically new compared to most of what we reference in this series. Same with a LOT of what you're referencing, especially Shadowmoon and Fristfire from Warlords and Drustvar from BfA.
While these are good examples of the expanded forces of magical manipulation, which necromancy is a part of, I don't think there's a good basis for a vast majority of it, minus what we've learned about the interesting divide between void and death when it comes to how shadow power functions.
With this, I really do discount pretty much everything past Wrath. Not everyone agrees with me on that, but I feel like that's where I need to draw a line.
@@TheDanNation Well even before Wrath there were lots of cases of dark casters having of all sorts raising undead of some sort from shamans to shadow priests to warlocks, take a look around gatherings of dark themed mobs and you'll find skeletons surprisingly often at least. I only named the examples from WoD forward as they were the most easy to recall.
As for "ignoring everything past Wrath" it is clear this isn't the channel for me then, as while believe me while many have been as frustrated with story and lore decisions for a while now it feels very counterproductive to just write off _actual canon_ as not just because it doesn't suit your tastes. It actually hurts your credibility considerably as someone discussing lore by quite a bit, as someone who is not honest and accepting of information can not be trusted to dispense it themselves. You gotta accept the truth, warts and all, if you want to be someone to pass it on.
I've always thought that undead in Warcraft are "immortal", and its just the death magic what keeps them going. I don't even remember from any story that an undead creature would just get old and simply die, that would only be possible if the magic possessing them somehow deteriorated over time.
This fantasy is also the same reason zombie apocalypses are impossible to happen irl, the human body couldn't exist in that state without magic (or any living thing for that matter). Like, when I saw the scene in World War Z, where the zombie falls around 50 meters, and is still crawling after the humans is truly hilarious :D
Yeah it's a bit of a shock to some folks when I explain that it use to be that undead were VERY temporary, even the original Death Knights were decaying over time. This whole immortal undead thing in WoW is new as of Warcraft 3.
It’s not really addressed in-game, but I think it’s mentioned in one of the novels that the Forsaken harvest corpses to replace overly-rotted or damaged body parts.
@@HeatherSchrivener-el2mx In most cases I try to actively discredit the novels, especially the Richard Knaak ones, but in this case I REALLY like that, oh my god lol
@@HeatherSchrivener-el2mx Forsaken legos confirmed?
@@HeatherSchrivener-el2mx Well thats nonsense then. How come undead skeletons never need to replace their bones? Wouldn't every Scourge creature just fall apart eventually by this logic?
A rhetorical question, of course they would, which ruins the fantasy concept of a tireless and undying army.
Good content keep going
Thanks, will do!