Go Ahead, Push The Purge When Rinsing - Scuba Tech Tips: S05E15
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2017
- For years, divers were told NEVER push the second stage purge button when rinsing or it will damage the first stage. Alec explains in detail why this is no longer true and should not be taught.
**** Alec Peirce Scuba ****
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Alec Peirce: SCUBA Mythbuster
Downlink great name
You are the only channel i get notifications for, and thats how i want it to stay. I love your tech tips, keep them coming.
great vid I've been diving for 2 years and just by watching all the vids of u i learn alot
Hi Alec, Thanks so much for the tech tips. I've watched every one, sometimes more than once. Between dive trips, I use them to refresh my memory.
Alex, I'm 70 years old, 71 in 3 weeks. I was Naui and Padi certified in 1973 while in college A career, young family, and financial concerations kept me from keeping my certifications current. Forty-three years later my son bought me a Groupon to take an OW class. He's in Indonesia and I thought, why not? I'm in pretty good health and still workout so I did the OW class, Nitrox, and I'm working on AOW. I'm aware of the fact that I'm not in my 20s and dive well within my limits and with experienced divers. I'm loving being back in the water. We're off to Komodo, Indonesia in Nov. You, a gentleman more of my own age, have played a BIG part of my taking up diving again. Thank you Bob
I think this is all great Robert.
The oldest student I ever had was a 72 year-old lady. She loved it and dove here in Ontario and many times in the tropics. That was about 30 years ago. She is gone now but I'll bet she had a smile on her face!
Scuba diving is very low impact. It's less physically stressful than a long, slow walk! And a lot less emotionally stressful than reading a newspaper!
Try a little experiment Robert. Before your next dive, write down on a piece of paper some problem in your life that you are trying to work out - financial, family, big purchase, etc. Tuck the paper away somewhere and then promise yourself that you will think of that problem and will try to work on it during the dive. I can pretty much guarantee that you won't remember. Once you're underwater, the top-side and all it's stresses disappear. Even if it's just for the length of the dive, it's wonderful therapy.
Good luck, Have fun.
Alec
Thanks Alec! Great video as always. Hope you keep them coming!
Dear Mr. Peirce,
Your videos provide a wealth of extremely valuable knowledge, personal insights, and experience, delivered with humor and fun.
I have learned much from your presentations... Thank you!
Steve Toenes
Well thank you Steve. Glad your learning and laughing with me.
Thanks for watching
Alec
love your tech tips Alex, keep up the good work.
This video just provided me with the relief I needed!!!! Accidentally pressed the purge button and was extremely stressed
Glad you learned something new and can dive stress free my friend.
Great video as normal Alec. Was worried you were stopping the videos as I heard you retired. Glad to see you are still making them.
Thanks Ted. Good to hear from you.
Alec
I said the same thing but was shot down. Marvelous explanation Mr.Pierce.
If anyone questions you again, quote me and that watch only the best! Thanks for watching Sailesh.
Learned something new again ;) love love your vids and your way to explain
A physics 101 lesson from a dive instructor. Can't wait for what's next! ;)
Some instructors get too into sharing minute details of stuff that brand new divers can't remember or see how it all fits together. Watching these videos will help new divers slowly absorb how gear works on their own time.
Nice one Alec..... two great minds think alike...........
sir, you've point out my point for years. my instructor argued with me for a long while, and he wouldn't believe that.
Yeah.
I don't know what it is that makes a good diver become so closed-minded and pig-headed when he gets an instructor C-Card! Heck, I STARTED learning after I became an Instructor!!
Alec
BEST DIVE CHANNEL OUT THERE :))))
Thank you Matte and thanks for watching.
Alec
Hello, Alec,
Thanks for the great videos!
Basically I agree with you.
For INT connections this may not be a problem, as a proper seal is possible with a proper dust cap.
In Europe, DIN connections are used for the most part. Here an adequate sealing is almost impossible.
But when I see something like this I also rinse the hoses as you have shown.
You're quite right Goo.
It's harder to seal a DIN reg when rinsing although there are very good dust caps for DIN regs that actually screw on.
They come in Delrin (plastic) and also in Aluminum. They seal as well as if you had the reg on a valve!
Take care.
Alec
Thanks Pierce, you take my fears away. LOL!
Hey Alex, nice Video as always, about your hate against these dust caps, i seperated my dust cap completely from the regulator, and every time i Dive, i remove the
dust cap and put it into my Maskbox. And when i finished my Dive, i have a nice dry and clean dust cap to put on to my Regulator :)
Good idea Flo. Most divers are not so fastidious. I assume you carry a spare - or at least a wine bottle cork!!!
Every diver has a wine bottle cork right?!!
Thanks for watching. Alec
u the best teacher for me..
Thanks Nemo. Only want to educate and entertain divers to make our sport safer and more fun.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
Hi alec! Thank you for all of these great videos! I've enjoyed every single one of them. This one makes a lot of sense. Whoever played around with a straw in a refreshing drink sould get the idea. The problem here is if the first stage is below the second no air needs to be compressed and the water would run right up the hose. Please correct me if im wrong. Thanks again and best regards from germany.Stefan
Good to hear from you again Stefan.
I suppose water could run up the hose but it's still a stretch. For water to run up the hose air has to come out. It's not a big hose for 2 way traffic. And the second stage valve doesn't open very wide even when in use.
Let's be clear again - I'm not advocating pushing the purge when rinsing. I'm just saying it's not such a big deal as many divers and instructors make out.
I should run some tests to see just how much and if water does go up that hose. To this point I've just been applying physics and experience.
And keeping y'all thinking!!
Alec
Nice information....Thank you
Honestly and well said sir.
Thank you.
hi Alec,
First off, i love your vids. very helpful. I know very basic info on scuba. just woundering if you could clairify decompression in possibly a video, that would be awesome.
It's a good idea but rather hard to make an interesting video.
I suppose I could find a diver to get the bends on video. Actually even that would be boring!
Try reading up on Google or a good textbook.
Decompression and related topics, decompression sickness, recompression, NDL diving, safety stops, etc., are more theories than practical. Tested and proven theories to be sure but pretty dull stuff.
Alec
I have an older Sherwood first stage, Patent No. 4226 257, it has the "dry bleed" rubber stopper. I had it serviced before diving a few weeks ago and it functioned perfectly. However, when I went to put the dust cap on after the second dive, I swear there was water on the filter area. I even tasted it and it tasted salty (of course, everything tasted salty.) I did soak everything in a sink full of fresh water, dust cap on, (even pushed the purge buttons off tank,) and hung it up to dry. Still, I'm worried that salt water might have gotten inside of the first stage, and I have read that this is often what kills these older regulators. Can you go into detail about the dry bleed systems please?
your the man
Is what you are describing in this video based on the regulator first stage completely disconnected from the tank valve but the dust cap on (no air pressure from tank) and only atmospheric pressure in the LP hose to first stage?
Yep. That's right.
If with the reg off the tank, there is still air in the first stage and the hose.
For water to move up the LP hose from the second stage to the first stage would require the air in the hose to be compressed and there's simply no force compressing that air. Ergo, no water will go up the hose.
Alec
Another helpful video, Alec, thanks! I have a related question: Recently when getting ready to dive, after turning on my tank valve I purged my second stage a few times to 'test' that it was working. The DM on the boat said I should never purge the 2nd stage to test it; instead I should breathe through it. The DM said that I could damage the second stage by purging it. Was this correct?
I can't think of any reason why he would say that.
I think it is a good idea to test your reg by breathing in and out. That way you check both the air delivery and the exhaust but ....
... there's certainly no harm in checking the air by pushing the purge button. That is what it's for.
Take care.
Alec
Alex, I do understand your point, water going down a long closed hose is unlikely, although capillary forces can play a role into enabling water to slowly run along the hose wall (therefore no need to go against air pressure). An easy experiment could be perform by putting few drops along the wall of a one-end-closed hose and see if it can run down to the bottom.
Another thing I would be more concerned about is having some water into the hose before storing it for some time, because since equilibrium is going to be building up into the hose, air will be saturated with water, air humidity will build up (water aqueous phase and gas phase) .
So for storage, after rinsing the second stage, if purge valve was pushed, a good flush with the air tank like you showed, might be a good advice.
All this is relevant if there is a communication between the low pressure part of the first stage regulator and the high pressure part of it. In other words, I do not know if the valve enable air to circulate between low and high pressure parts when at atmospheric pressure (valve is close or not ?)
I can't argue with your reasoning but I find it hard to believe capillary forces would enable water to travel 27". At least 1/2 of that distance would be uphill - assuming the hose is coiled. Capillarity, as it is sometimes called, works best with miniscule tubes. The inside diameter of the LP hose is perhaps 1/4" - much too large for normal capillary action to be in play.
However, your suggestion to pass dry tank air through your regulator after rinsing is great! I doubt many divers will do that. It's a struggle to get them to rinse! And then hang the regulator by the first stage to store.
Re the valve, a piston first stage is normally open when not under pressure (in storage) while a diaphragm is normally closed. I'll have to think for a while to see if there's an advantage to one over the other. Initially I'd suggest the piston is better in that there's no pressure on the seating surfaces so they stay fresh - they don't get deformed.
Thanks for watching and for your thoughtful comments.
Alec
You're right, capillary forces is not the appropriate term, but I can picture liquid running along a hose side (not uphill of course) and not having to work against a hose air pressure. bottom line might be, do not hang regulator by the second stage :-)
Please keep up with your tech tips from which not only I learn but that develop my thinking. All your years of experience is of great value for all of us, especially taught in a very pedagogical way, make your tech tips perfect, at least for me. Thanks
Thanks Bruno.
Some of things I say might go contrary to what a diver has heard.
What he chooses to believe and how he chooses to act is entirely up to him.
But, if I can get him to think rather than just blindly follow along, I think that's good.
Take care.
Alec
In my first comment I meant Long term storage. Having to flush regulator with air after rinsing it, might be cumbersome if done after every dive.
Alec, what are your thoughts on the following, since when we service our regulators , we do first stage plus both 2nd stages
What i find most people do is only use the primary 2nd stage and not the occy, so next time they are service they are basically servicing an unused piece of equiptment ( the occy) which they have paid to have serviced????
Having said that what i do throughout the intervals between services is change the 2nd stages over so they get equal use
Admittedly i do have matched 2nd stages
Your thought on this
Assuming the 2 seconds are identical, that's a decent idea. Most divers (if thev've been watching my videos) have the best primary possible and a solid but cheap Safe Second. They won't be the same at all. It's for the same reason that you state - the Safe Second just doesn't get used so why spend big bucks on it?
It's nice that you thought of it from the diver's point-of-view.
Alec
Hi Alec.
What is your opinion on tec diving
Hi Alec. Fantastic video thanks so much. Quick question- I have not been pressing the purge button (so far), but when I unscrewed the second stage from the LP hose, a small amount of water was in the hose and into the air inlet of the second stage- is this normal?
If you've not pressed the purge during rinsing, there should not be water in the hose. Odd!
However, simply make a habit of blasting some air out of the reg with the purge before removing it from the tank. That ought to get rid of any water.
Alec
Some regulators you have to pressurize before you soak (like atomic regs) just read your owner's manual
Sometimes I have to rinse in my bathtub. Since I don't have a tank, do you know of something to put some compressed air through the regulators? A bicycle pump would do the trick?
To get air to flow through the reg you'd need at least 200 to 250psi.
A bike pump won't work. You need a scuba tank or a dive shop to get that pressure.
Alec
Hi I have a cracked diaphragm cover On my 2nd stage. Do I need to replace it? I was underwater And was still able to breathe ok.
A cracked purge cover should be replaced and maybe your reg checked as to why it cracked. It still works because the breathing diagram has not torn so when you suck in it still pulls in air. Not something to ignore for long.
It would seem that if the 2nd stage is below the hose - water could not go up the hose unless the air in the hose was compressed - like the man said here. It would require some depth of water to allow any significant amount of water into the hose. We usually don't rinse regs in deep water. But if the 2nd stage is above the hose - then with the purge valve in - I think air could escape from the hose and allow water to flow in. I avoid pushing the purge when soaking the reg unless the reg is attached to a tank and pressurized. I also blow out the reg after soaking by attaching to a tank and pressing the purge valve and also depressing the stem in the BC hose. I have 3 USD regs that are 30 to 45 years old and still in service.
That's a good idea CP - installing the reg and blowing air through the 2nd, the safe 2nd and the LP hose after rinsing. Very few divers would think of that but tank air is very dry and that would get rid of any water than may have snuck in.
Thanks.
Alec
How do I prevent water goes into first stage when I rinse a twin hose? I’m afraid the one way mouth piece can leak a bit, so when I rinse it with freshwater, the water goes through the right hose into first stage.
It would for sure.
The non-return mushroom valve in the mouthpiece is there to prevent that.
Be sure the dust cap is installed snugly on the yoke, then squeeze the exhaust hose shut with your hand and blow into the
mouthpiece.
If the non-return is working, no air will go through into the 1st stage and you're safe to rinse.
Most experienced double hose divers will hang their reg from the first stage with the hoses hanging before they rinse it. That way the chance of water going into the regulator (uphill) is not likely.
Alec
Here's a question posed by Jet Screamer a few days ago.
I couldn't find his comment but I think it's a good one and have copied it here for us all to read:
.................................................
Jet Screamer
Hi Alec, I really enjoy your videos, very fun and informative but I noticed that you have contradicted yourself in regards to pressing the purge button when rinsing the regulator. In Scuba Tech Tips #9: Servicing The Second Stage Published on 22 Jul 2015 ( th-cam.com/video/BL4CutwooRo/w-d-xo.html ) at 4:08 & 5:56 you stated that one should NOT push the purge button when rinsing the second stage because water will travel up the hose to the first stage and hurt the first stage. I'm just wondering if you have changed your mind on this?
..................................................
The short answer is yes Jet Screamer. I have changed my mind.
In the earlier video I was mimicking the 'party line', that is, what is and has been common knowledge. But I subsequently have been thinking about this and after a lot of thought plus some checking of actual regulators, decided I was wrong, along with a lot of other people.
Plus I love to create controversy so others start thinking for themselves too.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
Hi Alec, i'm a new diver and i'm watching a lot of your vids to learn. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. I really love the fact that you are willing to change your mind when the evidences point to a contrary position and went so far as to admit you were "wrong" (although i don't think you were wrong, you formed an opinion on the knowledge you had at the time, and with new info updated your knowledge and position). Shows that you're a great teacher.
Is it true that the water is not possible to go up through the intake hose into the first stage on a twin hose reg because there is tank pressure? Even though hoses are so much bigger that a single hose reg.
Water will not go up the intake hose of a 2 hose but it's not because of air pressure. It's because there's a non-return valve in the mouthpiece that closes off the intake hose unless you're sucking on it.
The early double hose regs, say, pre-1960, did not have this simple feature and, as I learned in my first scuba class, if the mouthpiece came out of your mouth, it was quite a trick, combined with some gymnastics, to clear the hoses of water - both hoses!!
Even then, if water does get into the regulator body, it's not a disaster. The water will not go past the air valve and on your next breath, or while clearing, most of it will be expelled back down the intake hose. The reg might need cleaning though, especially if it's salt water.
Best to keep the reg in your mouth - good advice even today!
Take care.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thank you so much !
DIn type of regulator dont have that dust cap on the end there :) If open will there still be air in the line to keep water out? LOVE YOUR CHANNEL!!! THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HELP!!!
Much appreciated and thanks for watching.
A
There's absolutely a cap for din regulators. If yours didn't come with one, get one. It's a separate screw on cap that seals against the oring of the din fitting.
And you really shouldn't rinse or transport the first stage without it
the problem is, if you push the purge button, water may enter the balance mechanism (balance piston has a small hole in the sealing cap, leading trough the piston to the balance chamber) of the 2nd stage, and block it by freezing in cold conditions.
Possible although remaining air in the balance chamber ought to stop any water from entering. Assuming you're air is dry as it should be, a 3 second blast will dry out any small amount of water in there.
Alec
Hi Alec. I like your videos. But with all due respect I have to disagree with this one. First of all I am sorry for my English, but I will try to explain what physics REALLY does. You talk about the pressure inside the hose. You talk about the water can not beat it. But the pressure of the water doesn't HAVE to beat it. Because as soon as the hose inclines from vertical to horizontal position (a thing that happens all the time while you rinse), the water and the air inside the hose occupies a TRANSVERSAL section. Then the water comes in and the air goes out. Is the same principle with the demonstration with the glass on the surface of the water for the Open Water Diver course (I usually show that little primary school experiment to my students when I teach the first class to show that the water doesn't compress the air inside the glass WHILE IS FACES DOWN). But if I incline the glass, bubbles come out and water occupies its space. I could make a video to show you why your theory is wrong if you want to.
You are quite right of course, in pure physics terms. I taught physics for several years.
I couldn't begin to explain, as you have, all the aspects of the motion of air and water in a tube. The video would be 1 hour long and no one would watch it. Plus, few would understand it either.
All I was trying to accomplish in this video is relieve the anxiety on divers with respect to the "law" that you must not press the pure button when rinsing. The hose is quite long (25 to 30 inches) and the 1st stage end is closed. So, while there may be some air/water movement as you've described depending on the positioning of the hose, it would be very little. The diver is unlikely to hold the purge button open for more than a moment so for most of the time while the reg is being rinsed, BOTH ends of the hose are sealed. In that case transversal movement would be limited.The likelihood of water making its way to the 1st stage is slight and that would be expelled instantly the moment the reg is re-attached to the tank. That would also completely dry the hose since the air is very dry.
So, while your physics application is correct, in this instance it's of little importance.
Pressing the purge is no reason to panic nor to spend $150 to service the reg.
Thanks for watching and for your comments.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Almost nobody in Europe uses these useless rubber seals on the first stage. so water will come into the 2nd if you push the button (in my opinion it will also come inside if you have these useless seal...but ive only an PhD in Science). And i got some 2nd hand regulators which sufferes from moisture....simply dont do it. And throw away that dust caps.
Hi Alec, thank you so much for this great video, (my first ever reg) made me a bit relaxed as i did purge my second stage and octopus while rinsing them in fresh water.. I made sure the dust cap is on and the first stage was higher than the regs.. Next day i went to the dive store and did run pressured air in them.. It did spit few drops and kept going until i made sure no water drops were coming out.. Would you advise to send it to a shop for inspection or just relax my mind? Again thank you for your help..
If you rinsed it and then blew fresh scuba air through, I'd suggest you're OK. Take it in for regular service when it's time but I wouldn't make a special trip.A special trip to the dive store for service now and it's likely they will simply blow clean, dry air through it.
Alec
Well i had to wait until the morning (almost 12 hours) for the shop to open to blew fresh scuba air in the reg, would that cause an issue?
As well is there any signs i should be aware off to take it for an early service? Really sorry for the too much questions but just a biggner.. Thanks again for your help..
Assuming it was fresh water that you rinsed it in you should be OK.
There's no way to tell for sure without a complete disassembly but that's really not necessary.
Don't miss you next scheduled service.
Alec
Thank you so much Alec and hope one day you can be our guest in our diving sites in Egypt :)
Hello Alec, after all also I found your channel, absolutely love it.
Now one probably silly question, people "don't push the purge button" to avoid some drops of water travelling up, but no one asks for sealing the inflator (BC) hose while rinsing, right? Seems a bit contradictive to me...
Cheers!
Maybe you're right that it's never mentioned and should be.
Between you and me (no one else will read this!), the BC inflator hose is sealed by a Schrader valve just like the one in a bicycle tire. No water will go up that hose.
You ought to rinse the end of it though. Salt water will corrode the valve.
Take care.
Alec
Dear Alec, many thanks for being so patient with an ignorant like me. Mine is the red nose... well deserved.
- To do list, new entry: finally get familiar with stuff. Watch ALL of Alec's vids!
Seriously, thanks so much, for your knowledge, experience and, not at least, your sense of humour. Regards, too, to Kevin The Invisible!
Trust me when I say it's a good thing that Kevin is invisible!!
So Kevin and I share the same fate. 20 years of family pics, and I seem to not exist at all 😁
This is exactly what "Big Regulator" wants you to believe.
Hi Alec,
What exactly will happen if water gets into the first stage? I have read that it can cause the second stage and octo to freeflow and can even do damage to the SPG. Is this true? And what should be done if water does get into the first stage? Can it just be dried out with the dust cap off?
Thanks!
Mike
Well, the issue is usually overblown a bit. Fresh water in the first stage is not a big deal. If it's put onto a tank and air blows through it it will dry out almost instantly. This must be down quickly though since even fresh water has minerals that could cause the metal parts to bind.
Now if it's salt water, it's a different story. Salt water can start corrosion very quickly. If you can blow clean air through it within minutes you'll be ok. If not, I suppose soaking the first stage in fresh water, inside and out, will lessen the impact of the salt and then blow it out. If you get salt water into the first stage and it stays there for a while, even hours will be enough, the metals parts will corrode and the seats will get salt deposits on them. If serviced fairly soon, say within weeks or so, the corrosion will likely all come off. The seats are replaced in any service anyway so you will still be good.
In all these cases, remove the SPG before blowing. You do not want any water in the HP hose leading to the SPG or computer. See below.
It's when the reg sits for a long time and the salt water actually dries inside that you will probably have main parts destroyed.
The second stage is largely plastic and is not affected.
Re freeflow, sure. If the first stage is corroded, the seats will no longer seal and the IP climbs causing a freeflow in the second(s).
You're right about the SPG though. If salt water gets up the HP hose and into the SPG head, it's toast! It cannot be
cleaned. A new SPG head only is about $100. If you have a hose mount air-integrated dive computer, things can get very expensive!
So, if you think you got salt water into the reg, get it serviced right away.
Hope this helps.
Alec
Thank you so much for your response! I think I might have gotten a little fresh water into the first stage as I switched tanks in shallow water. When I first repressurized the first stage both the second stage and the octo free flowed. I shut the tank off and when I repressurized a second time everything worked fine for an hour long dive. Can I assume that if any water did make it into the first stage it worked its way out during the dive?
Thanks
As I tried to show in the video, it only takes a few minutes of blowing fresh, dry air through a regulator to dry it out. Assuming it was fresh water and if it wasn't sitting with water in it for a long time, I'm sure you're OK.
Maybe this is a good time to point out to divers that the fresh water rinse tank on dive boats isn't full of fresh water. It WAS full of fresh water but unless it's changed after every dive, there is salt in that water.
Be careful!
Alec
Hi Mr Alec, i am a diver from Cape Town, South Africa and your videos has helped me a lot with my diving. When i am finished rinsing my regulator a normaly connect it with my cilinder and put fresh air through it, is this ideal?
Nothing wrong with that. Can't hurt and might be beneficial to ensure all's working well and is dry for the next dive.
We're going to be in Cape Town in a couple of weeks. How's the weather?
Alec
Alec Peirce Scuba , Hi sir, the weather down bere hasnt been that great, have lost a lot of diving time due to bad conditions and viz, if it is possible and you are in cape town, it will be a honor to meet you in person if your schedule allows it, we can maybe fit in a dive together. Please let me know.
I am on a schedule of course but will be staying overnight at least once.
Suppose I send you the name of the hotel where we'll be staying and the date and if you like you can call me or meet me there for a short while. It might be fun.
Alec
Apparently we're staying at the Lagoon Beach hotel on our arrival of the night of Nov 10. I think it's a late arrival - 7pm or so.
On Nov 11 we will be touring the area, Cape Point, Table Mountain, etc, and staying over again.
The next morning, Nov 12, we head off to Hermanus to shark dive in Gansbaai.
I don't know if that's convenient to you but it would be fun to meet.
Alec
Yes sir, please do so, as i would realy want to meet the man in person that has tought me so much just by watching his chanel.
Pushing the purge button can allow water to reach your first stage. The odds of it without using complete submersion of entire second stage and hoses are almost zero. Almost zero is not zero. There is not a pressurized hose stopping water entry. There is a hose with remaining air that can easily be displaced in exchange for water if hoses reach lower then second stage. Always dangle first stage out of cleaning bucket wall cleaning second stage or you will get water in your first stage.
At my store Scuba 2000, new students were taught that technique. Take care Don.
Can't you just hook it back up and purge it after rinsing
So what you are saying is, if you suspect you accidentially depressed the purge button while rinsing, finish rinsing it, hook it up to a tank, pressurize it and press the darn purge button again for a few seconds.
You have said this! lolol
Thanks Warren.
Alec
Wanted to say thanks for all of the tips sometimes they're a little long-winded but I enjoy them all the same and I wouldn't have it any other way
I will not have water inside the air valve of my second Stange. Nobody think that water goes in the first stage.
The key point is 'when rinsing' in clean water, not salt water. If unsure that water may be in the 2nd stage hose, open the 1st stage a bit and press the 2nd stage purge. Any water/moisture will be blown out before storing.
👍
Hi Alec, interesting video.
My second stage has a feature that keeps the purge button depressed for long term storage. I accidentally left it depressed for a full hour soaking in a bathtub. Do you think it would still be ok? I follow your reasoning but it still seems to me like it's possible for air to escape.
Thank you!
That feature existed on several models for years before being dropped or using a clip on part. Put the reg on a tank and purging some air will dry out the hose. Being in a fresh water bathtub with clean water should not be a problem after running air through the reg and safe second.
Safe diving.
Alec
Thanks Alec. I brought it to my local dive shop and did just that.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter As always, thank you for the videos, they are very fun and informative to watch. My question is about the DIN regulator's dust cap. If it is screwed on, is it just as air and water-tight as yoke dust cap? Can you briefly soak the first stage of the DIN regulator as you would a yoke regulator? the reason I am asking is because yoke dust caps are usually rubber, and they provide a pretty tight seal, while DIN dust caps are usually hard plastic or even metal, so do they provide the same air-tight and water-tight sealing in case I want to soak 1st stage or 2nd stage. if the dust cap is not as sealed, water will get inside the hose as there would be no air pressure to keep it away. thanks again!
A great question which was sadly left unanswered by the OP...
Aha... This make the ACD on my aqualung the best thing ever invented. I have to worry for nothing
Be careful.
ACD's (Automatic Closure Device) are NOT perfect as I hinted in the video.
First, they're not new and certainly not invented by USD.
Regardless, almost every such offering has not stood the test of time and was withdrawn from the market for a variety of reasons ranging from 'weren't worth the trouble' to 'cut off the air to the diver'.
I suggest that you never depend on any such device to replace proper care and maintenance.
Take care.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter I haven't about that in that light. Thanks sir
the dust cap is not sealed so if you push the second stage purge button water will get inside the first stage by gravity specially if the second stage is place higher than the 1st stage , yes i agree that if you push your second stage place the regulator back in the scuba tank and purge until its dry, so better not to push the purge button while rinsing ,
1. the dust cap SHOULD be sealed. If yours isn't, get a new one or check that it's installed properly. If the dust cap doesn't seal,
there's no need for it!
2. The first stage HP seat is normally sitting in the closed position. No air can pass. If you push the purge, water can only go up
the hose if it displaces the air in the hose and subsequently in the 1st stage. Since the air in the hose and 1st can't get out,
water can't get in, certainly not by gravity and not even under pressure. And there's a lot of air in there. The hose is 1/4"
diameter (inside) and 27" long. For water to pass the 2nd stage valve, a very small orifice, then travel up the entire length of the
hose and finally enter the 1st would require a lot of air to exit. Not going to happen!
Interesting that at least one well-known brand regulator has what's called a floating orifice in the 2nd stage. It's not a new idea and it has some merit. However, the floating orifice is essentially the same as if you were holding the purge button open. When the reg is NOT under pressure (as when you're rinsing it) the 2nd stage valve is open.
I'm glad to see my video has you thinking. That can only be good. The more we think about what's happening, the more in control we are.
Take care.
Alec
If you put a pipe upright in water with it sealed at the bottom bubbles will come out water will replace the bubbles it has to now seal both ends turn the pipe 1 way water will be at the bottom turn it the other way water will run to the other end if it can't go from the pipe to the first stage no problem but if it can it will
Another myth debunked!. Tks Alec
AHAHAHAHA! there you go! 50 bucks!
as you said the hp seat seated then water can get in the low pressure side of the 1st stage , if water get inside the hose water can flow through the lower part of the hose allowing air to pass through the upper part of the hose but i agree that if you press the regulator while rinsing then place it back on a scuba tank that way you can purge the water out but still just dont press your regulator while rinsing saves you the trouble thanks
I agree if a bit of water was sitting in by the second stage and you hung it upside down with 1st stage at the bottom that water can easily run down and can sit there for months till you next get it out to use it
That's fine, until someone drops their regulator in a deep bin of water, even with the dust cap cover on, and then presses the purge with the entire reg system underwater. Air in the hose compresses, albeit slightly, creating a vacuum where water will fill the void. Or someone blasts their regulator with a hose directly into the mouthpiece while purging...
Also, It's not a matter of the droplets getting down (although that would be even worse), it's a matter of the water creating high humidity, which in the long run is no bueno for the reg. And the intense Florida heat guarantees that water turns to air humidity quickly. Your tests may vary, but mine has resulted in regs getting quite nasty by the time I service them. If anything, I think I'd be doing a disservice to folks by teaching them to have fun pushing the purge when rinsing.
"teaching them to have fun pushing the purge when rinsing" !!
I'm not sure if it was 3 times or 4 times in the video that I said I'm not suggesting you push the purge , that you shouldn't do it.
Not sure WB1 where you got the impression I said to do it, much less teach divers to do it.
Must be the heat down there.
It would have to be a deeeep bin! At 30' the water would have been forced up the 27" hose 1/2 way only.
Anyway, the video was only to dispel an incorrect impression and to teach a bit about regulators.
I agree that one should avoid pushing the purge while rinsing if possible.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
Appreciate the response. I apologize- I didn't mean to imply that you were saying to have fun pushing the purge. But the video does imply that it's not that big of a deal if it happens. It can be a big deal- especially when dealing with regulators that are being used with 100% O2. And sure, 30' would be about half way, but that's half the hose being completely filled with water and is obviously extreme. Rather, a 2 ft bin will cause about 1 inch of a 22" hose to be filled with water. An inch of water in a hose is more than enough to cause extreme humidity / moisture to form in the 1st stage once that water evaporates in the summer heat.
All that said, I appreciate what you do for our community with your videos. I recently saw some regulator videos (mixing regs together / adjusting 2nd stage.) I thought it might be cool if you did a part 3 showing how magnehelics are used and how to manage without one via measuring how far the reg needs to be submerged before air comes out / IP drops... Just a thought for a future video!
Good idea WB!
I can do that. Show divers how inhalation is measured and how to judge if your reg measures up so to speak.
Alec
I really liked the channel and already saw many videos, no one is perfect and we can make mistakes but personally I think this kind of statements without evidence that confirm it is dangerous for divers, an I felt the need to write this, first, the logic says that if you don’t have a check valve or something similar in that hose that prevents a return, water may find its way to the first stage, the water obviously DONˋT HAVE TO COMPRESS ANY AIR in the hose or the first stage, the water replace the air, do the experiment, do it a thousand times and then make a video showing people the results and then you can say “go and press the button because I did it 1000 times and nothing happened, BUT even thought it is not correct to give that as a fact, is my opinion, I think there is a responsibility in this channels with many subscribers and watchers to give accurate information, and if you made a mistake do a new video with the corrections, nothing happens, people understand, I’m concern about the comments, people saying “oh I was worry because I press the bottom, now I’m ok” in this business that is dangerous, like I said before in a thousand or a million times nothing happens, but if in the million and one a person has an accident because he or she saw a video of a respected TH-cam channel that said NOTHING HAPPENS IF YOU PRESS THE PURGE BUTTOM UNDERWATER, GO AND PRESS IT”
Like I said is my opinion, my recommendation to the viewers of any TH-cam channel is this one, in cases like this, when the info given goes contrary to what everyone else is recommending, and more important, if your life depends on it, go and recheck the info, go and study, research a little bit before any conclusion, and in the scuba business stay with the safest option, that in this case is DO NOT PRESS THE PURGE BUTTOM WHEN CLEANING THE REGULATOR, water may enter the first stage and damage the unit.
You have stated your case but mine is simple. As a certified Service Technician for decades for multiple manufacturers plus more vintage regs, single and double hose than I can remember, this has never been a problem. So lets leave our comments for others to read or post your issue on www.scubaboard.com and let the wider scuba community offer feedback. Thanks for watching Bernardo.
I like your videos but you are wrong on some of your statements. When you take off the second stage the ose becomes open to the atmosphere. With that you you have np pressure in the hose. The water could displace the air and make it to the first stage.
Second since the first stage has a diaphragm in it the dust cap on the tank side of the first stage is isolated from the hose side. The water could eventually displace the air and make it to the first stage.
As far as drying the hose out with the tank that would work but doing it too fast would cause condensation in the hose which you’re trying to remove.
Might want to rethink those statements. Tony
Differences in opinion are good Tony and I appreciate your comments.
I think maybe my explanation is not as clear as it could be. I am limited in time and often glance over things that others, like yourself, want to discuss.
Removing the second stage entirely COULD allow water to run up the hose and into the 1st stage. I'm not sure why one would remove the 2nd other than is service, in which case it's not underwater. If that did happen, the instant you turn on the air, any water would be immediately displaced and blow out the hose. However, it's best to not remove the 2nd except for service and certainly keep the 1st and hose out of water.
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say in your second point. The LP hose is connected directly to the chamber below the diaphragm, the side that is NOT exposed to water. The hose and that chamber are, for all intents, the same chamber, the low-pressure chamber. The hose is simply a long, thin extension of that chamber. The dust cap keeps water out of the 1st stage high-pressure chamber. That is NOT the same chamber. These two chambers never connect except when under air pressure and then when you draw on the hose.
Assuming the air in the tank is dry air, there will be no condensation inside the hose. The hose may get cold and condensation from atmospheric air might appear on the outside of the hose.
Thanks for your comments. These drawn-out explanations are often a lot of fun and informative for those technical-leaning divers.
Alec
Too much unnecessary words
Yet when I threaten to shorten the videos I get flack too.
I watch a lot of U-Tube videos and I'm in the habit of jumping ahead using the progress bar when I don't need to hear everything.
Maybe that will help.
Thanks for watching.
Alec