So with these changes from 2022 about pedestrians at junctions I just a couple of things I would like clarified. It is specifically to do with junctions of some description, so going into or out of a T junction or really any junctions that is not controlled by traffic lights. What about roundabouts on entry AND exit? What about at 2:49, the dropped kerb with the island, does that not count?
Good questions. Always best to remember that you are required to not create a dangerous situation by stopping. Approaching at a slower speed can give you and a pedestrian time and keep everyone safer as a result. The rule is the same for roundabouts so in theory you could stop on entry or exit in the same way you could at a T junction. Leaving a roundabout would require you to stop partially on the roundabout so I would only do this in a safe area with little to no following traffic. Remember that you should not be creating danger for you or the pedestrian. The same at the island with drop kerb at 2:49. The island is to make it easier for pedestrians to cross. You can stop but only if safe. It’s not a junction so I would again only stop if on a quiet road or the pedestrian looks more vulnerable. I hope this helps!
My biggest problem with this is I have probably clocked the pedestrian waiting to cross before I get there and checked it is safe to stop and went to let them go but then after a while of having my back end in the road and the pedestrian reluctant to cross I have gone anyway. I think the problem is most drivers either don't know the new rules or don't care anyway and the pedestrians not knowing what the hell to do. Also another issue is at roundabouts under the new rules pedestrians just walk out and expect drivers to stop for them. I think it needs to be more two way, if it's not safe to stop in a flow of traffic the pedestrians should also use their common sense and wait. But I have to say as a pedestrian with a dangerous area I never get anyone stopping for me to cross which angers me. But I have a copy of roadcraft and the highway code at all times in my car and most people probably have a girlie mag or something.
Very true that not all drivers and pedestrians are confident with the rules. It will take a long time before pedestrians can cross as intended but they will always need to use common sense and check.
Have looked at the problem of roundabouts especially mini roundabouts when taking the third exit staying close to the roundabout and then crossing towards the exit if you stop for a pedestrian to cross you are exposed sideways to a car coming from the lift especially in dull conditions this was highlighted on another driving instructors chanel on film he said this car should stop if there is a pedestrian a second later a van shot past the back of the car if it had stopped there would have been a collision the car coming from you left wouldn't see your break lights because you are sideways on and would be looking to his right to check traffic as you showed turning right at a normal junction isn't a problem you don't move across the opposite lane until the traffic and pedestrian are clear
Good point, some situations will be easier than others to deal with. I know that by adjusting my driving to suit the conditions I will always be safe. If everyone could learn that skill then we would all be safer.
I think you would have to take the best action suitable to the situation if the pedestrian has not set foot in the road move slowly through the junction if the pedestrian is starting to cross try to stop on the apex of the roundabout as if the exit is blocked by traffic and leave enough room for vehicles to pass to front of your vehicle maybe this is why roundabouts are not mentioned directly only junctions
@@brianhardern273 Rule H2 says you should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross at junctions and DVSA have confirmed that that covers both the entrance and the exit of roundabouts. If you did as you suggest on a driving test then that would be a minor fail. If you approach a roundabout then you have to be prepared for vehicles to stop and give way to waiting pedestrians. If everyone follows the rules then our roads would be a lot safer for everyone.
@@simonavarne9635 It wouldn't necessarily be a minor fail as it would be down to context at the time e.g. how close were cars behind you, what were other cars doing next to and around you at the same time, how visible was the pedestrian beforehand, was the pedestrian visibly waiting to cross, would it have caused confusion or a danger for the vehicle to stop etc etc. And this is precisely the problem. Whereas before it was always that a pedestrian shouldn't cross until it's clear to do so (commonsense), now there are all kinds of variables not only that the vehicle has to quickly analyse but also that the pedestrian has to be aware of too. Don't forget that these rules are only at a junction and not say 4m down the road (actually an unspecified distance?) where previous rules once again apply. It's absolutely bonkers. Confusing at best and downright dangerous at worst.
A lot of these rules largely make sense, but the new pedestrian priority is downright dangerous. It’s now open to interpretation by both vehicles and pedestrians at EXACTLY the wrong time (when someone is waiting to cross a road!). And there are now different rules depending on where the pedestrian is standing (when does a junction stop being a junction for instance and thus pedestrian priority changes again). And giving way to pedestrians as a vehicle is exiting a roundabout is really dangerous. Its not expected that a car suddenly stops in the middle of a roundabout (think mini roundabouts too) and will result in more near misses or indeed collisions. I don’t know what was wrong with the old rules - at least there was consistency. I know as a pedestrian I will not be applying these changes - from a self preservation perspective! As a cyclist and car driver I am now far more confused and concerned than I was. We need clarity from DVSA.
I agree that it will cause dangerous situations while we all get used to it. As with everything it will be those travelling too fast or not planning ahead who will find the most problems. Roundabouts are the most concern as you rightly point out. This is where many 'experienced' drivers could do with top up training even with the previous rules. Stay safe and don't hold your breath waiting for clarity from the DVSA.
@@ChimpOnCars Dangerous situations that are caused by this bizarre new rule. What was wrong with the old rule of a pedestrian shouldn't cross until it's clear to do so i.e. no cars coming? What safety issue has this new rule actually fixed? Mind you I do think that drivers should undergo a refresher course every 5-10 years or so. Not necessarily a pass/fail, but certainly a compulsory assessment.
@@Being_Jeff not good enough. Certainly when it goes against years of advice and general wisdom. If it's gonna be changed then communication of the new rules need to be dramatically improved...
@@ChimpOnCars You mean while 20% of people get used to it and the other 80% don't know, don't care or refuse because it is nonnsensical. As a pedstrian I am sure as shit not walking out into the road because some piece of paper says I have priority. Therefore, what's the point? Just to criminalise drivers for driving safely when pedestrians choose to risk their own lives.
Confusing 'should' (advice)' and 'must'(law). If someone is in the process of crossing you must give way, if someone is waiting the word is should, so if the road is busy or you consider it dangerous then you have the option to carry on and this covers leaving a roundabout, again the safest place for a pedestrian is on the pavement.
And the safest place for a driver is to know that when the pedestrian is about to cross, he has the right to do so regardless whether the drive thinks so or not! The driver ‘must’ therefore be offering the pedestrian the hierarchy at All times. It will end in tears if we muddle over ‘must’/‘should’ when the pedestrian has the same perception of these two options but both came to differing decisions! Let’s take the sensible route, give way to pedestrians as a must, for you’ll be prosecuted if you hit a pedestrian and no ‘should/ must’ will mitigate the sentence handed down. Who wants to languish in jail for such a crime simply because we were confused over ‘should’ or ‘must’! Just give way at every junction, whether RA or lowered pavement, slip roads and town junctions, it will delay you inconceivably
“How to do the give way to pedestrians safely” eh, nothing changes when the car in front is slowing, your distance must reflect the car in front. You should be aware why one needs to slow at junctions but regardless of whether a pedestrian is the reason for slowing or not makes no difference whatsoever, the driver behind just needs to keep his eye on the car in front. That’s always been the case and the New HC does not change that necessary distance one iota! The driver behind isn’t slowing/stopping for the pedestrian, he’s stopping/slowing because the car in front has done so! Also, you ‘must’ give way, drivers don’t have the option of ‘giving’ anything, the pedestrian now has the right over the driver! The pedestrian now already has the hierarchy at the crossing! It may simply be a claim some drivers make but it’s very much like it’s a gripe against the new rules that require a change of hierarchy in favour of the pedestrian and clearly, the ‘impatient driver hates that need to now slow down. The driver is no longer ‘king of the road’ and about time too. Ps. I’m both a regular driver and pedestrian. There is absolutely no excuse, we all need to be much more careful, be a lot quicker on the uptake of the ‘significant new HC, you’ll enjoy driving and showing that long lost art/need for ‘GRACE’ an attribute that is the very need of the hour! If you are really in that much of a hurry, leave earlier, but no more putting your tardy driving on the pedestrian.
You are correct, they now don’t have to have started to cross. How are you finding this, are you stopping when someone is waiting to cross or looking like they are going to cross?
@@ChimpOnCars If I can see a pedestrian going at their current speed would walk into me as I turn, I stop and wait for them. I always did this. This has always been the rule really because you can't begin a turn if they're about to step onto the road and they have priority when they do. It seems to me the new changes are just making old rules more explicit to drivers who didn't previously understand this.
So with these changes from 2022 about pedestrians at junctions I just a couple of things I would like clarified. It is specifically to do with junctions of some description, so going into or out of a T junction or really any junctions that is not controlled by traffic lights. What about roundabouts on entry AND exit? What about at 2:49, the dropped kerb with the island, does that not count?
Good questions. Always best to remember that you are required to not create a dangerous situation by stopping. Approaching at a slower speed can give you and a pedestrian time and keep everyone safer as a result.
The rule is the same for roundabouts so in theory you could stop on entry or exit in the same way you could at a T junction. Leaving a roundabout would require you to stop partially on the roundabout so I would only do this in a safe area with little to no following traffic. Remember that you should not be creating danger for you or the pedestrian.
The same at the island with drop kerb at 2:49. The island is to make it easier for pedestrians to cross. You can stop but only if safe. It’s not a junction so I would again only stop if on a quiet road or the pedestrian looks more vulnerable.
I hope this helps!
My biggest problem with this is I have probably clocked the pedestrian waiting to cross before I get there and checked it is safe to stop and went to let them go but then after a while of having my back end in the road and the pedestrian reluctant to cross I have gone anyway. I think the problem is most drivers either don't know the new rules or don't care anyway and the pedestrians not knowing what the hell to do. Also another issue is at roundabouts under the new rules pedestrians just walk out and expect drivers to stop for them. I think it needs to be more two way, if it's not safe to stop in a flow of traffic the pedestrians should also use their common sense and wait. But I have to say as a pedestrian with a dangerous area I never get anyone stopping for me to cross which angers me. But I have a copy of roadcraft and the highway code at all times in my car and most people probably have a girlie mag or something.
Very true that not all drivers and pedestrians are confident with the rules. It will take a long time before pedestrians can cross as intended but they will always need to use common sense and check.
Have looked at the problem of roundabouts especially mini roundabouts when taking the third exit staying close to the roundabout and then crossing towards the exit if you stop for a pedestrian to cross you are exposed sideways to a car coming from the lift especially in dull conditions this was highlighted on another driving instructors chanel on film he said this car should stop if there is a pedestrian a second later a van shot past the back of the car if it had stopped there would have been a collision the car coming from you left wouldn't see your break lights because you are sideways on and would be looking to his right to check traffic as you showed turning right at a normal junction isn't a problem you don't move across the opposite lane until the traffic and pedestrian are clear
Good point, some situations will be easier than others to deal with.
I know that by adjusting my driving to suit the conditions I will always be safe. If everyone could learn that skill then we would all be safer.
I think you would have to take the best action suitable to the situation if the pedestrian has not set foot in the road move slowly through the junction if the pedestrian is starting to cross try to stop on the apex of the roundabout as if the exit is blocked by traffic and leave enough room for vehicles to pass to front of your vehicle maybe this is why roundabouts are not mentioned directly only junctions
@@brianhardern273 Rule H2 says you should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross at junctions and DVSA have confirmed that that covers both the entrance and the exit of roundabouts. If you did as you suggest on a driving test then that would be a minor fail. If you approach a roundabout then you have to be prepared for vehicles to stop and give way to waiting pedestrians. If everyone follows the rules then our roads would be a lot safer for everyone.
@@simonavarne9635 It wouldn't necessarily be a minor fail as it would be down to context at the time e.g. how close were cars behind you, what were other cars doing next to and around you at the same time, how visible was the pedestrian beforehand, was the pedestrian visibly waiting to cross, would it have caused confusion or a danger for the vehicle to stop etc etc. And this is precisely the problem. Whereas before it was always that a pedestrian shouldn't cross until it's clear to do so (commonsense), now there are all kinds of variables not only that the vehicle has to quickly analyse but also that the pedestrian has to be aware of too. Don't forget that these rules are only at a junction and not say 4m down the road (actually an unspecified distance?) where previous rules once again apply. It's absolutely bonkers. Confusing at best and downright dangerous at worst.
A lot of these rules largely make sense, but the new pedestrian priority is downright dangerous. It’s now open to interpretation by both vehicles and pedestrians at EXACTLY the wrong time (when someone is waiting to cross a road!). And there are now different rules depending on where the pedestrian is standing (when does a junction stop being a junction for instance and thus pedestrian priority changes again). And giving way to pedestrians as a vehicle is exiting a roundabout is really dangerous. Its not expected that a car suddenly stops in the middle of a roundabout (think mini roundabouts too) and will result in more near misses or indeed collisions. I don’t know what was wrong with the old rules - at least there was consistency. I know as a pedestrian I will not be applying these changes - from a self preservation perspective! As a cyclist and car driver I am now far more confused and concerned than I was. We need clarity from DVSA.
I agree that it will cause dangerous situations while we all get used to it. As with everything it will be those travelling too fast or not planning ahead who will find the most problems. Roundabouts are the most concern as you rightly point out. This is where many 'experienced' drivers could do with top up training even with the previous rules.
Stay safe and don't hold your breath waiting for clarity from the DVSA.
@@ChimpOnCars Dangerous situations that are caused by this bizarre new rule. What was wrong with the old rule of a pedestrian shouldn't cross until it's clear to do so i.e. no cars coming? What safety issue has this new rule actually fixed? Mind you I do think that drivers should undergo a refresher course every 5-10 years or so. Not necessarily a pass/fail, but certainly a compulsory assessment.
You said "Its not expected that a car suddenly stops in the middle of a roundabout" well now it is expected.
@@Being_Jeff not good enough. Certainly when it goes against years of advice and general wisdom. If it's gonna be changed then communication of the new rules need to be dramatically improved...
@@ChimpOnCars You mean while 20% of people get used to it and the other 80% don't know, don't care or refuse because it is nonnsensical. As a pedstrian I am sure as shit not walking out into the road because some piece of paper says I have priority. Therefore, what's the point? Just to criminalise drivers for driving safely when pedestrians choose to risk their own lives.
Confusing 'should' (advice)' and 'must'(law). If someone is in the process of crossing you must give way, if someone is waiting the word is should, so if the road is busy or you consider it dangerous then you have the option to carry on and this covers leaving a roundabout, again the safest place for a pedestrian is on the pavement.
Thank you, good advice
And the safest place for a driver is to know that when the pedestrian is about to cross, he has the right to do so regardless whether the drive thinks so or not! The driver ‘must’ therefore be offering the pedestrian the hierarchy at All times. It will end in tears if we muddle over ‘must’/‘should’ when the pedestrian has the same perception of these two options but both came to differing decisions!
Let’s take the sensible route, give way to pedestrians as a must, for you’ll be prosecuted if you hit a pedestrian and no ‘should/ must’ will mitigate the sentence handed down. Who wants to languish in jail for such a crime simply because we were confused over ‘should’ or ‘must’! Just give way at every junction, whether RA or lowered pavement, slip roads and town junctions, it will delay you inconceivably
“How to do the give way to pedestrians safely” eh, nothing changes when the car in front is slowing, your distance must reflect the car in front. You should be aware why one needs to slow at junctions but regardless of whether a pedestrian is the reason for slowing or not makes no difference whatsoever, the driver behind just needs to keep his eye on the car in front. That’s always been the case and the New HC does not change that necessary distance one iota! The driver behind isn’t slowing/stopping for the pedestrian, he’s stopping/slowing because the car in front has done so!
Also, you ‘must’ give way, drivers don’t have the option of ‘giving’ anything, the pedestrian now has the right over the driver! The pedestrian now already has the hierarchy at the crossing!
It may simply be a claim some drivers make but it’s very much like it’s a gripe against the new rules that require a change of hierarchy in favour of the pedestrian and clearly, the ‘impatient driver hates that need to now slow down. The driver is no longer ‘king of the road’ and about time too.
Ps. I’m both a regular driver and pedestrian. There is absolutely no excuse, we all need to be much more careful, be a lot quicker on the uptake of the ‘significant new HC, you’ll enjoy driving and showing that long lost art/need for ‘GRACE’ an attribute that is the very need of the hour! If you are really in that much of a hurry, leave earlier, but no more putting your tardy driving on the pedestrian.
Well put, I like the comment about them no longer being ’king of the road’.
This is hardly new, pedestrians have always had priority if the have already begun crossing before the car starts turning in.
You are correct, they now don’t have to have started to cross. How are you finding this, are you stopping when someone is waiting to cross or looking like they are going to cross?
@@ChimpOnCars If I can see a pedestrian going at their current speed would walk into me as I turn, I stop and wait for them. I always did this.
This has always been the rule really because you can't begin a turn if they're about to step onto the road and they have priority when they do. It seems to me the new changes are just making old rules more explicit to drivers who didn't previously understand this.