Alchemy - The Life Times & Alchemical Writings of Edward Kelley - Beyond John Dee and Enochian Magic
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Sir Edward Kelley (aka Kelly aka Talbot) is (in)famous for being the scryer-medium during the extraordinary angelic conversations with Dr. John Dee. Though, he is sadly less known for his own famed alchemical practice and writings. Here I am going to explore the printed 1676 edition of his alchemical writings to better understand Kelley. Often written off as a mere con man, exploring Kelley and his writings on their own terms gives us a greater glimpse into his importance for the study of western esotericism and the alchemical world of the late 16th century.
Recommended Readings:
Kelley - Alchemical Writings (Latin) - www.google.com...
Kelley - Alchemical Writings (English) - archive.org/de...
Transmutation Tales:
www.alchemyweb...
www.alchemyweb...
Rampling - The Experimental Fire - 978-0226710709
My Article on Kelley - drive.google.c...
General Alchemy Reading
Linden, Stanton J. (ed.) The Alchemy Reader: From Hermes Trismegistus to Isaac Newton. 978-0521796620. Nicely edited collection of alchemical primary texts.
Moran, Bruce. Distilling Knowledge: Alchemy, Chemistry, and the Scientific Revolution. 978-0674022492. Great text on the transition from alchemy to chemistry.
Principe, Lawrence. The Secrets of Alchemy. 978-0226103792. An up-to-date history of alchemy.
Newman, William. Newton the Alchemist: Science, Enigma, and the Quest for Nature's "Secret Fire" 978-0691174877. Cutting edge research on alchemy in the 17th century.
Roob, Alexander(ed.) Alchemy & Mysticism. 978-3836549363. A collection of alchemical imagery and symbolism, also a nice coffee table book!
Anything by Principe and Newman generally
#alchemy #EdwardKelley #JohnDee
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Al Pacino and Robert De Niro as either Dee or Kelley. Seems in my limited perspective and casual impressions that Enochian magic as practiced at this time and Dee-Kelley alchemy saga with its reams of texts don’t dive into esoteric symbolism or comment on mystery schools immersed in psychedelics. The overlay of cosmogony and angel hierarchy is fascinating though. We see through the lens of our time. I wonder about the apparently more prolific writings of physicist (and alchemist) Isaac Newton on alchemy, with his massive relevance today as predecessor to Einstein and others and today’s materialist/reductionist/scientific method-based, though slowly more esoteric (in my view, with string theory maybe) and imaginative thinking.
Some of the “popular” books referencing or bring to mind John Dee or Enochian magic that are on my previewed to-read list:
The Rise of Alchemy in Fourteenth Century England, Jonathan Hughes
The Secret History of the World, Mark Booth aka Jonathan Black
The Essential Enochian Grimoire, Aaron Leitch
And now with this excellent video:
The Experimental Fire, Jennifer Rampling!
I'm not a scholar just an old lady who understands probably 10% of your videos on a good day, however I really treasure and enjoy my 10%, thank you! 🤣
You under credit yourself and if you make it through the videos surely you marvel and enjoy the content despite comprehension.
@@ramkitty Thank you for your encouragement, I know I'm over my head but for some reason it's very enjoyable.😂
I am a septuagenarian woman and have been in the occult realm for over 50 years. The internet changed everything. Not only can we find out details never before known, but we have new challenges and debates. Just when I thought I had read it all,
Well, now comes rebuttal, new info from sources older than we were aware of and much more
Enjoy the mystery. That’s all I have to say. And, most importantly, put the questions into whatever art craft or pastime you enjoy
Continue the curiosity and enjoy doing weird things!
@@panninggazz5244 You are a delight! Thank you ❤
@@annjones9635 well thank you, your comments inspired me and reminded me too! Have a great Sunday!,🙏🏼
I literally *died laughing* around 7:51 with the "DEEZNUTZ" written in Enochian 🤣
You seem ok now ;)
My wife. .. Who is a chemistry professor .. enjoyed your dry admonition to refrain from trying this at home.. it was a little island of delight in our morning..
Yeah, I don't want to earn the ire of any chemistry people. Also, I don't want idiots to harm themselves.
I’ve discovered your channel because I’m teaching a novel by Patricia Wrede that uses Dee and Kelley as characters. This is more way more than my students need, but I think a few of them will really appreciate this deep dive into these historical figures, alchemy, and magic.
Hey Justin, I remember reading long back that Kelley was introduced to Dee by his relative ( the elizabethan spy master) and that the main reason for his "selection" was that Dee needed a non-English Catholic stooge to stand-in as his "scryer" during Dees mission to Rudolphs Court. Dee was an English protestant and not trustable to the catholic Rudolph even though he was an esoteric and a scholar. The Irish Catholic Kelley had been selected because he ticked all the boxes as it were, plus by doing the mission he was effectively getting a "get out of jail free" card or more possibly his life (it appears that the first mutation of his ears for coin fraud was followed by death for a second similar offence which kelly had been caught doing).
It would appear that there were many aspects to Dees mission but it was certainly risky for Dee as he was a known senior advisor to Queen Elizabeth who was at war with Spain (Rudolph was only ruling the Holy Roman Empire as a stand-in for the King of Spain who in fact ruled both kingdoms as part of the Habsburg Dynasty). It seems certain that the whole scheme was designed to get Kelly surplanted into the inner circle of the Habsburg court to get info on the Spanish war preparations against England, specifically the great Armada which set sail during Dee and Kellys sojourn to Rudolphs court and ended disastrously for the Habsburgs.
Kelly was heavily promoted as the alchemist and person who held the secret for transmutation of base metalls into Gold for this reason although in reality it was John Dee who was really pulling the strings as the true alchemist and he makes many references to the 92 great chemicals who each have their own position in the earth, and their own unique properties but are numbered in order of ascendency of their mass (surely a reference to the atomic mass of the 92 naturally occuring elements that make up the periodic table we use today and the hidden 93rd radio active element) Each element had its own unique sigil that conveyed its properties although all of them were contained within the same basic frame work and obeyed the same natural physical laws of the cosmos.
Anyway the Spanish were effectively bankrupted before the Armada set sail to conquer England and so the allure of Kelly would have been significant to them and more so after they lost half of the armada in storms. Queen Elizabeth and her spymaster even corresponded with Kelly "begging" him to return with his secrets back to his queen as part of the subterfuge in order to make him more attractive to Rudolph and the Habsburgs. Dee may have had a second mission or it may even have been his part of his first ploy to hide the purpose of Kellys true mission and that was to convene with the angels using his Occult language and for a new "calendar system" to be revealed by the "angels" to Rudolph who could then propose it to the Pope who was trying to find a solution to the leap year issue. Dee solution was ground-breaking and even today (if we would use it) would be 3 times more accurate than our current system of leap years but of course a Protestant could never hope to get such a proposal accepted by the a Catholic Pope. The idea must come from a Catholic source and so he may have woven into the angel scrying narrative. It didnt get taken up but the bait of Kelly did and Dee could return to England with Kelly fully practised in the art of the angel astronomy communication system that Dee had taught him for keeping Dee updated on Habsburg court intrigues.
wow! sorry for the length of this.
They believed in what they were doing, and they were ahead of their time. Producing gold was not the end but the means.
Invaluable understanding and a wealth of knowledge about esoteric subjects. Thank You.
Fun episode, this one
Loved the video. Have you ever thought to do a video on paracelsusian alchemy or on paracelsus himself.
As long as I get your approval I'm golden :)
@@TheEsotericaChannel 😂
The “beard haver” description of Dee was high humour x
This was wonderful! It's refreshing to see a "balanced" perspective on Edward Kelley as I agree - he was, like all of us - many things and very complex. As you mentioned, anyone would have difficulty stepping out from the shadow of Dr. Dee! Reviewing these texts was so helpful to me and I greatly appreciate your scholarly work!!!
Very interesting episode on your wonderful, binge-worthy channel, thank you so much for your work and greetings from - of all places - Leipzig
These kids with their cell phones... In my day, we did necromancy with our bros in the graveyard.
Back in my day to be cook you had to find schizos on blogs or get weird books at the bookstore
Haha
You too?
Stumbled onto your channel and have been fascinated, devouring the content. I love the subject, your knowledge and presentation. Thank you for your time and the work you've done to get here.
When I was a kid my friends used to play a guessing game called: "Animal, vegetable, or mineral." I guess I know where that came from now ;)
H.P. Lovecraft in his At the Mountains of Madness also used this kind of classification, only he then introduced his Elder Things that were neither and therefore must've come from space. Because reasons.
Speaking of which - some people hold the belief that Lovecraft had recieved visions and therefore his texts contain some sort of occult knowledge. I wonder what our host would make of that idea?
man I really love the amount of knowledge you put out in all of your videos. this is probably my twentieth video I've watched. Soaking in the broadcast of knowledge I am recieving from you. Thank you so much!
Why this is very enthralling to someone in depths of study that most cannot direct in a moving forward of knowledge.blessed be.beloved
This is what i was looking for, great, thanks!!! Lookin forward to the other material about Dr. John Dee.
Well Kelley seems like quite the character. I have never really heard much about him before. He certainly gets overshadowed by Dee. Can't wait to read your article.
Hello, Dr. Sledge! I have the CD-ROM from the British Library of most of the Sloan Dee material, and what I'd like to point out is the similarity between those wonderful alchemical drawings in the short Kelley book and the figures drawn in the margins of the spiritual diaries. There is, for instance, a portrait of Madimi that appears to be from the same artist. In addition, the angels and spirits in Kelley's scrying sessions with Dee are often likened (by Kelley) to poppets, puppets and mawmets (once again tiny, grotesque figures--and the alchemical drawings all seem to present what could be taken as doll-like figures arranged in 'shows'. First, I wonder how much access Kelley was allowed to the diaries. Could he be responsible for some of the marginalia in them? And if that's so, was Kelley allowed to add to, correct, and illustrate even in a small way the diaries after the sessions took place? There is evidence that the text was corrected--by Dee, (and Kelley?) and that the Sloan Dee manuscripts were not exactly transcriptions of events, but were written as scripts--literary texts. There's a wonderful book titled Theatre, Magic and Philosophy, that addresses this point by connecting the shows, shews, or visions, to the London writings of Giordano Bruno. Thank you so much for this info. on Kelley. Oh yes, have you read The Reckoning by Charles Nicholl? It appears that there is some evidence--letters and such-- that Kelley was indeed a spy and that Marlowe at least knew of him. Please read past the accidental crossing out. All best, Jesse
There are certainly sections in Kelley's hand - Kelley was trained as a notary and his handwriting is much, much better than Dee's. As for the drawings, I'm not sure. I would like the see the one in the Leipzig ms because the printed ones may be woodcuts or engravings by the printer. I haven't read it but my general sense is that anyone on the continent was a de facto agent of the crown - whether they wanted to be or not.
Thank you for a wonderful, clear, straightforward presentation. Well done! I love your work.
Been waiting for this one...thank you
Thanks for another great video! My list of things to read keeps growing because of you lol.
I was wondering if you've ever read "Liber Memorialis de Caleostro quum esset Roboreti" by Clementino Vannetti? It is an account of Cagliostro written in imitation of the Vulgate, both in style and content, with doctors testing and conspiring against him as he travels around Italy healing the sick.
The wife-swapping immediately reminded me of Joseph Smith. Also the "reformed Hebrew" reminded me of "reformed Egyptian", the original language of the Book of Mormon.
Such a masterful deep dive into (in my opinion) one of the most fascinating figures in early modern Western history: thank you, Dr. Sledge! I have to wonder, given your closing mention of the potentially drastic health consequences of alchemical practice, why mercury/etc poisoning has never been posited as an explanation for the angelic conversations. It would fit alongside your ASC theory rather nicely, accounting for some of the more extreme psychosomatic presentations that the diaries don't explain. Though I suppose not knowing is half the fun of engaging with them!
Most major notoriety is achieved later in life. In the case of Edward Kelly, he only lived to around the age of 42 to 43, (although, back then, the average lifespan was a about 40 to 45 years if I remember correctly). It's hard imagine living in a time where life expectancy was that short.
I listen to you really because I want to learn more about angles
You give me some much knowledge. Your one of my go to place if I feel down
Interesting to find out mercy needs stabiling but make sense as it is a liquid or water. I think you can freeze mercy. Interesting he used salt. A bit of gold and silver. I am a bit lost are they trying to make gold. When you talk about the stone is that what you mean. After one of your video I painted a picture of a lady with a sword cutting a stone in two. She was looking away and wearing medieval armer. Her face was beautiful and white. I painted a open book on the floor. Thank you so much Dr.
Forgot to say how much I enjoyed the video:) especially the third book that Kelly allegedly wrote, I didnt know about it before so would be great if you manage to get your hands on that and do a video!
I share a birthday with him for whatever that’s worth i find it amusing that I’ve stumbled across all of this thank you as always for your work
You and @nilered oughta collab on recreating some of the Alchemical experiments to see what happens.
Another fascinating video... Thank you!
good to see someone explain Kelley without dismissing him with ad hominems.... Personally I think cannabis could be involved, as in Liber Salomonis (one of the Raziel grimoires) or else some form of nightshade, Kelley was an apothecary after all... some of the puzzling things could thus be explained, and no doubt there would be unconscious projections from Kelley, but all the sexual shenanigans could also be explained by a Gnostic influence.
brilliant talk, thank you, id love to claim Sir Kelley as an irish silent hero
After reading about Cold-Food Powder from the Tang Dynasty, it has really changed my perspective on what this might all have actually been about.
I love your channel. Thank you so much.
32:00 I would probably have ignored the advice anyways, but I do have a Chemical Technologies degree and used to deal with a fume hood on a daily basis, so I'll probably be fine if I can get my hands on adequate equipment.
Nice to get a more nuanced take on Kelly. He may have been as morally compromised as Aleister Crowley but at the same time as brilliantly gifted. He had real alchemical skills and knowledge. And it should be noted it was he and not the multilingual Dee who developed the incredibly complex Angelic Language called Enochian. But why didn't you consider Kelly's son Arthur as the obvious one to inherit and pass on his manuscripts. release the Leipzig Ms!
Good lecturer Jonathan
I still do not trust Edward Kelley for most things, but I will acknowledge that he was a talented scryer.
I knew that he was an alchemist, but I have never looked into his works before.
"swap wife's by Angelic decree" okay lol sounds legit
Great work. We want an episode on the Book of Abraham The Jew.
Dear sir,
If I may be so forward, I would like to suggest collaboration with NileRed when the time comes for your practical experiments. It might be something you would both find fascinating and beneficial (though, I do not know his geographical location, so in-person collab might be difficult).
That's a great idea - love his content!
Interestingly, one could say the same (29:24) about Aleister Crowley, who claimed to be Kelley's reincarnation.
Hi Justin, it may be that the 007 signature of John Dee was his eyes and his number 7 in Gemetrica. Great job 👍
John Dee, Beard-Haver. Fuck, that's funny.
Hey Doc (and ESOTERICA fans), have you ever seen a movie called The Alchemist Cookbook? Not sure if I should recommend it or not for the hardcore Alchies because it’s a horror flick not a technical piece on alchemy but I liked it so much I bought it after the rental. It’s worth a view!
Do I want to read your thoughts on Dee and Kelly? Yes. Very much yes.
Excellent! Watched it on Patreon.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks so much for your continued support of the channel!
So I know that there may be some political issues with doing so, but I would love to hear your thoughts in a video on the collection of occult literature in the Vatican Library and the effects its reticence has on scholarly development in your field. I've long suspected (admittedly since reading Angels & Demons as a kid) that there was very important knowledge being kept there due to the infrastructure that seems to have developed around it. However, it would help to have the perspective of someone who actively works in that field and is familiar with the real professional barriers in studying ancient literature. Your comment at the end about getting that Leipzig manuscript published made it fresh in my mind, but I've been meaning to ask you this for awhile.
My short answer is that I have no reason to think the Vatican is hiding secret texts. In fact I think the opposite is probably true - they are, with exception of recent-ish papal papers - very open to having the archives available to scholars. In fact new things are still being found there - the manuscript of the Spinoza's Ethics from his correspondence circle comes to mind. The real question is what texts are in private hands - unethically and illegally obtained - and sitting in lock boxes out of the reach of scholars. That world - and I am very confident that texts of incredible importance are locked away in private hands - is one that should outrage people. The conspiracy theories about the Vatican distract us from the real gray and black market for important texts.
@@TheEsotericaChannel This black market world for unpublished manuscripts is the modern version of the burning of the library at Alexandria. It is very disturbing to contemplate sometimes!
Never attempt to perform and recreate alchemy.... Well that's like telling a child not to play with fire.
Lots eventually do and get burned 😅.
Most of the alchemy experiments do not work because the formulas are deliberately inaccurate so the non initiate are kept in the dark therefore like hiding things in plain sight 😅.
Your narration are very well done and appreciated including the jokes too 🙂. Thank you and keep up the fantastic work 🙏🙏🙏.
Gille de Rais episode, hopefully, is somewhere on the way, right?
Fascinating person.
Angel Heart brought me here 🖤
Leipzig is on my travel wishlist, too, but then aimed at music. Bach. Its just a many hour drive, but with the many lockdowns in Europe, its not going to happen anytime soon. Greetings from the Netherlands!
Say hello - I miss living in the Netherlands a to. Have an oude jenever and send my regards to that beautiful country!
@@TheEsotericaChannel thanks. i do like oude jenever occasionally. how long and where did you spend time here?
@@willemkossen I did my MA there at the UVA and lived in Amsterdam. My dorm actually had a tiny balcony onto the Prinsengracht!
Didn't even know about Kelley's Writings.
Yep, most people don't. Even John Dee fans.
@@TheEsotericaChannel now that i think of it, i remember that Vincent Bridges was working in Prague on some translations that either mentioned Kelley or written by Kelley.
8:37 - link to article about Kelleys role with Dee in the enochian sessions?
Oh yeah...let me add that!
Link in the description now!
As much as I see that there were substances and physical methods, I would see the operations with John Dee as being far more important in terms of psychological and spiritual alchemy.
I would see Edward Kelly as being the Shamsi Tabrizi figure that influences the scholar and ritual master more than the other and going on; still benefited by exposure to the scholar friend.
Do you have a reference for the 007 thing? I can’t find any actual evidence but would love to see some. Thanks!
Thanks!
Love the literary work you put into these as well as the third documentation throughout. 👍
Thank you.
My Big Questions are is there ANY truth behind their communications; if so where they Angels & can anyone still communicate with these beings today using this system/alphabet?
Rumor has it Kelly never actually died but was rather taken in by the mists of Ravenloft. It's only a rumor though.
I'm Dr. Justin Sledge and I support this Ravenloft theory.
@@TheEsotericaChannel I thought as much :) no need for a wisdom check roll here.
@@sloppycabi I just love AD&D!
@@TheEsotericaChannel I haven't played in ages... I do miss it. Hearing you talk about D&D in one of your recent live streams brought back good memories.
@@sloppycabi :) me too friend, me too! I miss those days!
🌺 Aloha Dr Sledge Mahalo
I'm a bit rusty what follows is
not my best
We glimpsed our kindred
first spirit 007
as Rudolph the King did
and angels of heaven . . .
doomed failed money achiever
the imprisoned believer.
So too, this land poor
seeker has
sweet dreams of
the tomes at Leizig.
You sir are a fount of knowledge. As if you have done a lifetime of study without getting a hint of grey in that beard.
There's some gray in there :)
Here for class.
C'mon gang! To Leipzig!
Rumor has it that Edward Kelley may have created the Philosopher’s Stone with the red and white powders he found.
Sounds to me like his last words were "Could I have some water?"
7:55 🤔😮🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ancient sacred Enochian word!
Did you know that we can create gold through fusion and the base that is used to make it is mercury? The process is not cost effective right now (costs more to make than the gold is worth). Funny how they were on the right track. Divine inspiration?
Alchemists were led to using mercury in their experiments because of its reaction with gold (as well as some other metals). When mercury contacts gold it absorbs it in an amalgam. The amalgam can be boiled and the mercury evaporates and leaves the gold behind. People have been exploiting that for at least three millennia to mine gold from ore.
Alchemists didn’t know why it worked, but they knew there was a special reaction between mercury and gold. So it seemed like a logical place to focus.
Remember to read right-to-left @ 7:55 lolol
Edward Kelley may be a past life of mine.
Did all those old scholars and Druid’s, if i can call them so, knew that gold came from space and that the basic ingredients are just some of the main ingredients of planet Earth, also i wonder if they knew that the human body has a small percentage of gold witch is mostly beneficial for human joints. I wonder if they perhaps did not know the origins, that made all the future alchemy and chemistry innovations possible as they are today?
I practice spiritual alchemy
Kelley knew the secret and wouldn’t let the secret out so those in power slander his name and that’s why he went by Kelley and not his real name (Talbot) 🤔 maybe
You seem to dismiss the spiritual alchemy idea. I’ld like to know more about the why of that. Cheers!
There's basically no evidence for 'spiritual alchemy' prior to the 18th century - even then it's somewhat a revisionism - and was basically invented in the 19th & 20th centuries.
@@TheEsotericaChannel which still would make it an interesting subject. how did that invention happen, and with what purpose, and by whom? Esoterics change over time, too :)
@@willemkossen I talk about it a bit in my episode on alchemy misconceptions - Mary Anne Atwood is really the ground zero for the idea (and Jung to a degree as well). Here "Dissertation" was incredibly influential in the development of the idea. It's certainly an interesting current just historically disconnected from the historical practice of alchemy.
What are your thoughts on the works of Manly P. Hall?
Haven't read 'em - probably need to get around to that.
Imagine naming your son Manly. He'd have quite a bit to live up to lol
I had a dream about Edward Seer whom I had never heard of before. I wonder why I dreamt about him. Moreover, it's fascinating to know his life right after dreaming him on a cold Sunday morning.
0:10 / 33:54
Hold my beer
#AntiHero🌌
Edit: 👁️🗨️ added the time stamp for *context*
They say Kelly has much contact with archangel uriel
john dee: what the hell is this
kelley: hey the angels said we should be swingers.
john dee: he didn't even leave a note? i hope he enjoys Rudolf II's prison.
cool
12:05 he married his very talented daughter?!
What do you think about internal alchemy? I know it’s not western but fuck it
Like the modern self-help stuff? I'm not even sure I believe in selves.
@@TheEsotericaChannel No, the ancient Chinese practice that gets cribbed by self-help types. The goal is to transmute your three inner energies (jing chi shen) to heal the body. It’s heavily tied to Qigong and has a lot in common with “spiritual alchemy”, so maybe the latter is just syncretism? Maybe SA has some validity?
@@stevebisset1522 I'm no expert of Chinese alchemy / religious philosophy so I can't judge.
@@TheEsotericaChannel Fair, I just figured it could put some things in context
You must understand that Kelley possessed genius. All mediums have their familiar spirit that guides them. People like this end up tycoons or industrialist/barons or serialkillers since they must offer a sacrifice to their genius on a constant basis to continue rising into positions of power. A very good example is Arthur Stillwell and his brownies.
It's the Devil!!!! 😈🤣🤣🤣
🙃
Firstly, I love your channel and I'm happy it exists as there is a profound lack of academic information on youtube regarding the subject of the Western Esoteric Tradition. However, in several videos you've posted concerning the subject of alchemy, you've often asserted that the idea of alchemy being a spiritual pursuit was born in the 19th century, specifically via the work of Mary Anne Atwood. I'm quite surprised by your commitment to this assertion as it is patently false. Of course, following Atwood and Jung's work, alchemy became widely branded as a purely psychological and abstract pursuit involving the transformation of the self and this misconception has been perpetuated into the 21st century. However, even the earliest extant works on alchemy, those of Zosimos of Panopolis, clearly declare alchemy as both a chemical pursuit and a mode of spiritual transformation. For someone like Zosimos, there is ultimately no difference between the two; all is One. Thus, the processes taking place in the vessels/laboratory can never be divorced from what is occurring within the alchemist himself; they are inextricably linked because the lab is fundamentally a MIRROR. This concept is core in alchemical philosophy as I'm sure you realize. I recommend reading his own work "On Excellence" as well as "Becoming Gold" by Shannon Grimes which details Zosimos' life and philosophy. Furthermore, Jakob Boehme (a 17th century German mystic; 2 centuries before Atwood or Jung) clearly uses alchemical terms and nomenclature to convey his rather complicated mystical philosophy regarding the transformation of Man. Yet, there is no evidence at all that he was a practicing laboratory alchemist in any way. Moreover, his disciples, especially John Pordage, went on to do the very same thing (see the "Pordage Letter" in Versluis' "Wisdom's Children") and again there's no evidence at all that he was practicing lab alchemy. Rather, it was indeed a purely mystical/spiritual pursuit for him. In the late 17th century and throughout the 18th century, several Para-Masonic groups arose that utilized lab alchemy as a mode of spiritual transformation. The most popular of these groups were perhaps the The Fraternity of the Golden and Rosy Cross formed by Federico Gualdi and Maria di Santinelli and the Gold Und Rosenkreutz order of Germany formed by Hermann Fichtuld. Both of these organizations practiced practical alchemy while maintaining that the aim was entirely spiritual. There are innumerable other references I can provide but this comment is already way too long. Regardless, I love your channel and love what you do. Keep it up!
This is covered in Zuber's dissertation and remains a minority position. Also, there is little to no evidence of any 'spiritual' continuity post-Zosimus, especially in the European context between the 12th and 16th centuries. I've mentioned these exceptions but exceptions they are. Also, it's odd that you would recommend that I read a text that in my alchemy videos I've literally recommended. Did you not watch closely or do you not believe I've read it?
@@TheEsotericaChannel didn’t realize you recommended that text. I must’ve missed that recommendation. No I wasn’t implying that I don’t believe you’ve read the text. It was an honest mistake. I stand by critique regardless as there is ample academic evidence to contradict your position deriving from European sources pre 19th century. You’re certainly correct that there are virtually no works characterizing alchemy as a spiritual discipline between the 12th and 16th centuries, but there are indeed some (the Swedish Masonic archives contain several for example). Yes, it is seemingly scarce as the lines are obviously blurred between alchemy as a kind of mystical philosophy and alchemy as a kind of proto-chemistry whereby alchemists were carrying out experiments solely for the purpose of understanding what we’d now call chemistry. However, to assume that even texts like the Splendor Solis or the Book of Lambspring are solely devoted to chemical experiments is a bit myopic in my personal opinion. All the best.
@@derekdunivan6879 Right, I never said it didn't exist. I'm saying it was a very minority position with basically no textual evidence from the periods in question. Do you have sources or evidence of alchemists contemporary to the Splendor Solis or the Book of Lambspring reading them as otherwise?
@@TheEsotericaChannel To be clear, I was stating that in my personal opinion these texts are examples of European alchemical texts that possess a mystical character, in addition to their obvious references to lab processes. However, to my knowledge (and I may simply be ignorant regarding this) there weren't any contemporaneous commentaries on the Splendor Solis or the Book of Lambspring at all. As far as I know, it wasn't until much later (19th century) that figures like Yeats, Joyce, etc. began to pen commentaries on the Splendor Solis, following the Occult revival of the 19th century. If you have examples to the contrary, I'd love to see them as Alchemy is certainly a personal passion!
I think one thing we have to bear in mind is that pre-Enlightenment Europeans did not necessarily distinguish between the "mystical" and the "mundane" in the way that we do now. We, as moderns, are very much inundated with and conditioned by a kind of "atheistic-materialism", but Europeans in the early to late middle ages, and even well into the Renaissance, did not see things this way; they still believed the world and nature to be enchanted. This is certainly central to the alchemical worldview which is wholistic, unitary and non-dual in its approach; matter and spirit are fundamentally One. Thus, given the rather pronounced mystical and philosophical features of a text like the Splendor Solis, I personally don't think it's a leap to presume the author to have seen any and all alchemical experiments in the lab as having their analogue within the alchemist themselves. In other words, I don't think it's an "either/or" situation. However, I'm certainly in agreement with you that the New Age idea that alchemy is "whatever you want it to be" or Atwood's assertion that all alchemical texts were simply referencing "spiritual alchemy" is nonsense. :)
Young Frankenstein.......shhhh
secrets.
A Practitioner..........= Alchemists.
shhhhhh.
Class is in session.
multiplication of gold, gold plating, none of that had anything to do with alchemy.
they were being stoned