I propose that Jordan Love is the Kirk Cousins for Green Bay. He’s pretty good, cost a lot, but he’s not great. Overall he’s a gift to the rest of the NFC North.
And Sam is not that. He’s a very elite franchise QB who was stuck in a baaaad situation. It’s not even a question do you see how the team reacts to him in the locker room? They would be SO PISSED if they sent DARNOLD and he’s too good to just tag him and then what sit JJ for the next 8 clutch years DARNOLD will have? News flash. THIS IS SAM DARNOLDS TEAM. HE and only he is the true LEADER of that team. It’s OVER. They CANT keep JJ.
Love was good for 7-8 games last year, and the media completely forgets about the first 10 when he was terrible. This year he has been average at best. It’s why the Packers have leaned on the run. The more Love throws the more likely they are to lose. I think the demarcation is 30 passes. He’s the same inconsistent passer he was in college.
I disagree with Mackie here. JJ missed a season from injury. If you franchise Sam and keep both, JJ gets the season holding the clipboard he was supposed to get this year, continues to develop as the second string QB, and is ready to start in his 3rd year when you let Sam go if that is what’s best for the team. You can pickup JJ’s 5th year option and still potentially have him start 3 years on his rookie contract.
you simply cannot get rid of JJ without knowing that Sam Darnold of this year is the Sam Darnold of the future. Tag him, run it back, if he accomplishes the same stuff, then try and trade JJ, or let him go and get a compensatory. But trading JJ this offseason is nonsense. Too often to we see one year wonders.
@@realistNFLof course he is. He is playing for a top 5 NFL unit. I would not lock into a Dak, Watson , Cousins contract. Is he going to produce like this with the Raiders or whoever else might be interested ? Not a 50 million a year QB
I don't expect JJ, as a rookie, to match Darnold's 2024 production. However, if he is everything KOC expects he should be, at the least, a middle-tiered producer. As long as we win in FA, the future will look bright as JJ improves.
"However, if he is everything KOC expects he should be, at the least, a middle-tiered producer." >>> So after being shown Top-5 QB play, some vikings fans are willing to settle for middle-tier play. There are 3 letters in the word middle : M...I...D. This is unreal that this is the prevailing attitude now.
@@oel734What’s unreal is the fans' attitude that Sam is now the answer, when these same fans were calling Sam a bust and downplaying the Viking's move to get him. Also, fans are now all of a sudden turning against JJ when in fact these same fans were ready to play him over Darnold before is unreal
@@oel734 You are missing the point. Mid is temporary. The roster is built with the money saved on the rookie contract and JJ develops into a top tiered QB. The roster should be able to carry JJ in the short-term, until he fully develops.
@@newdaddio5629 "until he fully develops" >>> Fully develops into....what, exactly? That's the big risk you are taking here. You just had someone respond that he would prefer McCarthy to be a "middle-tier"(aka Mid) QB instead of giving you Top-5 or 10 QB play. I mean really??? REALLY? That's not why the Vikings traded up to draft him if that's the prevailing attitude now.
Ultimately, I trust KOC and Kwesi to make the right call. I love the show and your insights, but here's how I see it: If the Vikings finish the season strong, the plan should be straightforward. We need to secure Darnold on a three-year deal, structuring it to push some money into later years, keeping his cap hit manageable in 2025 and 2026. The two biggest factors in the above scenario are JJ's knee situation, assuming JJ will be just plug and play and how much the players seem to have rallied behind Darnold-you can see their confidence in him in the locker room footage. Keeping both JJ and Darnold is ideal, and I believe the leadership will find a way to make it happen. Skol!
No, they need to stick with the original plan. Trade Darnold, upgrade interior O line, get bell cow HB, get nose tackle and corner. You're not winning a SB paying a QB that much unless it's Mahomes.
JJ McCarthy is in no position to barder for a trade or anything. All he can do is sit and watch what happens and wait his turn. There is no reason to involve him in anything
Betting on Sam to do it again is a crazy bet to make at that price. Why would we not completely fortify our secondary, defensive front, IOL, and RUN GAME to form that bubble around JJ. There are two scenarios I would extend Sam: 1. Super Bowl appearance after he "takes us there" in earnest, meaning he really put the team on his back and we lose a great game. 2. We win it all. Otherwise: tag-and-trade, guarantee a 2nd round pick+, depending on who gets desperate/reckless. Do not let him walk without getting something for him outside of a comp pick. You guys are great and I love the thought experiments and takes you bring to the table. Hopefully Dex ends up looking like Hulk Hogan by the time our season ends. Happy New Year!
I agree with the first paragraph. I'm for trading him no matter what. If he wins the Super Bowl, do you really think he would run it back again? Only Mahomes, Brady, Elway, Aikman have done that over the last 30 years. McCarthy is going to be good. Fix that interior O line, get a nose tackle, a bell cow HB, and a corner. That will maximize McCarthys potential and get the offense from #10 to top 5 if he plays anywhere close to Sam Darnold.
@@okstate999 I only say sign him after a SB win because at that point we accomplished the mission lol but I agree, I would still be on the JJ wagon after a SB win.
@@userUncleMax San Darnold would help win you a SB and you'd still be all in on McCarthy? There's this section of Vikings fans that agree with you and I just smh. I really don't get this "chasing the cap savings" mindset. You hope McCarthy could reach where Darnold already is. Why would you toss away a MVP candidate just to hope your rookie QB (who has historically what...a less than 50% chance to be good) can one day be a MVP candidate? All for cap savings? Smart teams with top 7 QBs can manage paying the QB while paying other guys as well. Vikings fans are so gun shy ever since paying Kirk that you all have shot to the other side of the spectrum and now never want to pay anyone unless it's mahomes. Pay Sam his money. He's an MVP candidate for God's sake haha. What more do you want?
@@okstate999 JJ McCarthy is light years away from playing like Sam is right now. You guys are delusional if you think you can just plug in an unproven rookie and get the same results as you with Sam right now.
Vikings have lot of free agents. Going to be some holes to fill. Not many pics If rob can make the money work and kwesi can still fill the holes. Sign darnold up
Phil’s take on telling team’s to give up their 1st and have any of the 2 QB’s is crazy. Ward and Sanders may be the only 2 QB’s drafted in the first round and if JJ came back to Michigan in 2024, he may be the first pick overall. Before injury, the tape proved he could and would have played unlike Lance. You need 2 1sts for him or you would be a fool.
JJ mcC is draft value the same as the #1 pick. 2 1st one of which is top 8 this year, you better throw in a starter. Vikings have the leverage here. Thinking Raiders here: 2025 1st rounder pick (currently 8) 2025 3rd round, 2026 1st rounder, and a player. Tom Brady minority owner, Michigan man. That deal might get me to let JJ go; otherwise, keep him. JJ is worth more than Carolina paid for Bryce Young.
@tmcdwldr JJ McCarthy worth pretty much nothing, maybe a 5th round pick. He is an unproven rookie, played two quarters in a preseason game tore up his knee. No team will pony up much at this time
Oh dang I missed the live show. When it comes to Darnold. It’s time to seriously consider keeping him. Team loves him. That being said I trust the coaching. I will trust what they decide. I will definitely complain if they get it wrong though!
Phil, what's malpractice is ATL paying all that money to an aging QB coming off an injury. Darnold is young, in his prime and better than Cousins has ever been. Even before the pros.
You can’t say you need to see more from Sam and be ready to move on to JJ when he’s got zero games to see for himself. This is a tough situation to think about, hopefully the playoffs tells us what to do.
Darnold really has no room to complain if he gets tagged. Without all that Minnesota set him up with, he’s looking at another one year backup or prove it contract. He has been helped out tremendously. Minnesota got one year out of this otherwise, while Darnold will get years of big bucks. You obviously would try to trade him to a team he’d like to play for. Non exclusive tag is the best option if you aren’t going forward with Sam. He could then negotiate with teams, and then work a trade.
If they go out and win a Super Bowl this year I don’t give a damn what they do. They can trade the entire roster for picks and rebuild for the next five years for all I care.
Judd is correct. There’s only one scenario for us. We trade Darnold for whatever someone is willing to give us, and we run it with JJ McCarthy the next 4 years on a rookie contact. Build an absolutely ridiculous team around him and let KOC work his magic.
Goff has now done it for 2 seasons in a row Mahomes Burrow Allen Jackson Goff Darnold is not top 5. And i haven't even remotely thought about who else could be ahead of him. So at best, he is 6th.
@@lukelee32 Starters? I was not into McCarthy AT ALL based on what i saw of his college tape. My rookie QB ranks were: Daniels Nix Penix Williams McCarthy Maye
In his locker room speech two weeks ago KOC said about Darnold (paraphrasing) - he is ur quarterback, your leader, right now- the “right now” seems rather telling.
Easy - you bring Darnold back and McCarthy can sit behind him next year. No big lengthy contract for Darnold and I don’t think Darnold cares if McCarthy is behind him waiting for a chance. Two good qbs are better than one. Phil - slow down on the urgency to remove a qb. We’ve been without one for so long it’s okay to relax and just see what transpires over the next couple years. Enjoy the moment - this is NOT a problem. SKOL!
This is such an unfamiliar position for the Vikings to be in. To have a QB as a legitimate All-Pro candidate, and on top of that a young gun slinger both of which could be the future for the next 10 seasons.
Sam isn’t going to take a friendly deal to be another year bridge for jj. This is sam’s best chance at signing a multi year starting deal. & Vikings also gonna need corners this offseason. This season just proved koc is legit and should trust him with jj.
Bradbury and Risner are going to cost them in the playoffs. They need to fix several spots on the roster before next season. Need a reliable HB and a nose tackle as well.
@@realistNFL, sure he’s had some bad selections. Addison? Not a good selection? I’ll listen about that one. KOC pretty much told Kwesi he wanted McCarthy.
@@realistNFL, that is very true. What is very true is that they also didn’t need to draft McCarthy if they didn’t think they could develop him to be their QB of the future. Addison not a good pick by Kwesi?
@@realistNFLWhen has KOC shown that he can’t work with any QB? Why is McCarthy not the option because Sam is having 1 good year? The decision to stay with McCarthy is less about Kwesi than it is more about KOC’s ability to coach and mold a QB. You have to trust their process if you have any faith in the organization.
It’s weird that Judd and Thor have this unshakable faith in McCarthy, yet are so skeptical with something that’s happening right in front of their eyes in Sammy. It’s almost like deep down they are hoping he falls apart in the playoffs. Gotta keep Sammy if he keeps slinging it like he is
They need another year to see wear JJ is with his knee .Darnold is playing well , but it's a special team , not just Darnold. Bad take considering trading JJ.
We are contending with the Detroit Lions, who are not I repeat, not winning with a quarterback on a rookie contract. The day we got Sam Darnold I posted on X that this might be our Kurt Warner story. Yeah I get it. It’s a little different but my point being mostly based on potential and age. Just remember Kurt Warner was 28 years old when he signed with the Rams and he went on to the Hall of Fame. So let’s not get super crazy hung up on this rookie based contract philosophy being the only path to success in the NFL. I think John Malkovich said it best in rounders pay that man, his money skol.
We need CBs (MULTIPLE) We need an RB We need DL reinforcement We need a future RT and RG There are simply too many holes to run this back as is - we GOT RID of Spielmam for a reason, we have too many holes aging out and too few picks stashed to cover them to keep Darnold... ship him for a 1 and 2 and stay the course
Detroits defense is terrible. They couldn't stop the 49ers until the 4th quarter. San Fran was ahead and scoring a TD on every drive. They aren't getting to the SB.
@@okstate999 Also remember that the Vikings ultimately held them to what-should've-been 28 points (if not for a Jordan Addison brain-fart preventing a 1st down conversion to Jefferson that would've iced the game for the Vikings but instead it led to the Lions getting the ball back and kicking the Game-winning FG to make it a 31-29 final). Vikings scored 29 points against a then-healthy (sans Hutchinson) Lions Defense. With all the injuries since then? I wouldn't be surprised if they DOUBLED-THAT amount. And the Vikes defense, unlike the Lions, are HEALTHY (i recall Blake Cashman wasn't in that first game). I'm smelling a big Vikings win on the road in Detroit this Sunday night.
Best case scenario. Franchise tag and trade. But not sure if I'd wanna take that chance. I'd rather go with McCarthy, get great FA signings (DT, G, CB, C) and get BPA in the draft
I mean, going with JJ is taking a chance, too. I'm glad I don't have to make that decision. If O'Connell can get JJ to be at least 80% of what Darnold is, and include superior FA signings, I think we be just as good, if not better
This would have been a lot easier if the sports books were right on the 6.5 win total. But Sam has played great all season minus a couple games and now we are on the verge of a possible Number 1 seed and who knows after that. If he wins us the SB, I'm not sure how you don't back up the Brinks truck. The players obviously love him. This isn't the same as Kirk. Sam has risen up to the competition, doesn't checkdown and if he takes us far in the playoffs, it will be more than anything Kirk ever did. That's a franchise QB. At the very least you franchise him
There will be a lot of holes on defense to fill next year, especially in the secondary. Need to realize this is a great story with Sam, and really hope that McCarthy is a hit and use that extra cap to build a great roster around jj.
I guarantee Bradbury and Risner are going to cost us a playoff game. They may have had a good game 2 days ago but that was an anomaly compared to the rest of the season.
Yes, the "build around a QB on a rookie deal" myth... Every legit contender this year has a QB on at least their second contract and that has only really worked 3 times in the last 20 years with Mahommes, Wilson, and Flacco. The Vikings could have 10+ years of Sam Darnold if he doesn't have sustain any major injuries. Just pretend that this is the 5th year of Sam's rookie deal.
@@nathaniellarson8 It's not a myth, it just got us to 14-2 lol. Most wins since 1998. You think Darnold making 45-50mil+ is going to allow for a pro bowl guard or center, a reliable HB, a good nose tackle, and at least one good corner?
We literally just got out of a big money contract in Cousins. Hard to believe we would just jump into another with Darnold. All respect for Darnold and what he's done!
I don't disagree at all with Phil's line of thinking, but how does that reconcile with what he's been saying about Cousins? He's advocating for doing everything the Vikings did with kirk: 1. multi year deal 2. High salary 3. Pushing cap hits into future years to create a window right now and "worrying about it later" For the record I'm totally fine if they want to roll with Sam and change directions from McCarthy, but it is a path that's fraught with the possibility of ending up hamstrung just like you were with Kirk's deal. I'm kind of in the camp that says you tag Darnold, play him one more year and sit JJ. Then you revisit this discussion a year from now. Then you'll at least have one more season of data about Sam on which to base your decision and you haven't burned up JJ's whole rookie contract.
It seems that Phil isn't paying close attention to how Kwesi operates. So far, Kwesi has done a FANTASTIC job at getting GREAT talent without overpaying. It's like Kwesi adopted a philosophy similar to Billy Bean. Trust the process until we can't!
Lol if you don't see the difference between Sam Darnold and Kirk Cousins then you might need to get your eyes checked. Why do you think we are no longer complaining about a guard every week? Funny how as soon as you have a QB that can navigate a pocket and extend a play the offensive line is no longer the main focus of everyones ire.
@@Adam-bx2br the issue isn't whether Sam is better than Kirk or vice versa. The question is philosophical: do you believe that paying any QB a really high salary over an extended period is the correct strategy versus trying to build around an inexpensive QB and make the best team possible? Phil's point has repeatedly been that he feels the Kirk contract was an anchor that kept this team from realizing its full potential due to the cap hits. I don't disagree with that. I'm just trying to figure out why Phil would be okay with doing the exact things he was against with Kirk if it's Sam instead. Maybe Sam is so many orders of magnitude better than Kirk that people feel he's worth the big contract. I'm not so sure yet which is why I'd hedge with the franchise tag.
I trust that KoC and KAM will make the correct decision regarding our qb, and that’s something I have never been comfortable with before as a fan of this team
@ the guy is going to make more money in one year than he has the last six combined. If does good in year 2, then the team knows they have something, and then he’ll know he’s lined up for generational wealth
@ he’ll get his payday one way or another for sure. If he goes to another team or us. With us, it’ll take another year. He’s in the best situation right now that he’s ever been in. He might go to another place and flop, then you’ll be singing the blues that he was a waste of money
Love the show, love these guys. They are the best at what they do. Their content is well delivered, entertaining, and indispensable. That said, and this is just me, Randy from CG is regularly fast-forwarded. It T-bones the broadcast and for me, it just doesn’t work for me “as they say”. Keep up the great work guys in this, the most unexpected of Vikings’ seasons.
Regardless how this season shakes out, what an awesome problem to have with regards to the quarterback and how great this team has played TOGETHER! love the show!
I dont want another Farve magic ride, I dont want another Keenam magic ride. Were now on a Darnold magic ride... I'm tired of one and done. I want to ride with JJ, and a beast roster around him.
team-icon team-icon Minnesota Vikings 14-2-0 1st NFC North 4.4% 14th Off DVOA 28% 10th Passing DVOA -9.2% 18th Rushing DVOA -14.1% 3rd Def DVOA -10.2% 2nd Def Passing DVOA -21.2% Phil spot on about the rushing impact on the offence.
I've seen a lot of people comparing this to the Jordan Love situation, and I think that is a terrible take for two reasons: 1. What makes Jordan Love a success story? He hasn't won anything, and the Packers are a year or towo away from having to deal with the cap hits off his contract. They got basically nothing for drafting him. 2. Aaron Rodgers was near retirement. Packers had to think about the future. They jumped the gun, but at least the time frame made some sense. Sam is 27. Theoretically, he could play like this for 7+ years. The only reason to want to hold both long term is if you think this year is unsustainable. And if that's the case, we should sell high on Darnold. Tagging Darnold makes sense. Anything longer than that should also mean trading McCarthy.
The question is what does O’Connell want cause if we believe he is the QB whisper then we need to let him do what he thinks is best. If Darnold walks it’s because KOC thinks JJ has it.
It’s possible to keep both. Kurt Warner & Matt Leinart, Alex Smith and Mahomes, so on and so forth. You don’t get rid of your original plan for one years worth of production, especially when you don’t have to But we also need to take into account. We have the oldest roster in the nfl. If you give darnold 40 out of the 75, we might have to go bargain basement hunting in free agency. Especially since we have limited draft capital this year
Randy is right, all 53 deserve to be mentioned, even if their contribution is small. And honestly, I don't remember Asamoah playing. Oh, this will be a fun game next weekend - and if everything plays out well the Vikings will play the Lions again in the Championship game.
The Minnesota Vikings currently have the Highest paid WR in the League , 4 Year 140,000,000. They have the 2nd highest paid Left Tackle, 4 Year 104,000,000. and the 2nd HIghest Paid TE, 4 Year 68,500,000. If we sign Sam Darnold to stay wilth our team next year, we will be the Cincinnati Bengals with a Lesser QB. We signed 4 year contracts with these players so we can ride it out with JJ McCarthy's rooking contract. We need the rookie QB contract to maintain a superior team. I believe JJ McCarthy, under KOC, will be as good if not better than Sam Darnold. With the rooking contract, we will have $40,000,000 to spend on our defense. Teams with top 5 QBs ,who win, have strong defenses. The three contracts I listed at the start of this take, tell me we are trading Darnold and rolling with McCarthy. I only buy MN Viking jersey's of players that I hope will stay with the MN Vikings. My first jersey was a Chad Greenway Jersey,. My second Jersey was a rooking Harrison Smith Jersey,. I also purchased JJ McCarthy Jersey. SKOL Vikings!!! Darnold can win this year. JJ will be our stud the next three years.
Efforts must be made to keep both Sam in the short term is our present and JJ is the long-term future Minnesota is in a unique position in the league with a competitive QB like Sam and an ongoing project like JJ if they keep We talked to both of us about having our position secured for the next 10 years.
McCarthy is coming off a major two surgery knee injury and is a completely unproven commodity. Imagine the pressure that you would be putting on a rookie coming off of injury to match this season production. The first sign of the team struggling would have the media going for the front office and jj’s throat and he would crumble. You have to let Darnold fail first to alleviate that pressure. So franchise tag if Sam matches this season’s success then sign to long term deal and flip McCarthy for picks. If the clock strikes midnight on darnold then you can go with McCarthy without the media pressure of what if.
It would be similar to going to a high level college who has historically been great but has been real down lately. And then turning them around to win a national championship.
Let’s not lose sight of our mission… ONE before I die. I agree with ol Mackey… This roster has been the closest we’ve ever been in a long while… let’s stick with Sam for the foreseeable future, and flip JJ for picks. we can worry about the next window or next superbowls or next cap issues next time, because we have a shot this year and next year… Remember, step one is ONE Super Bowl … figure the rest out later… I would trade places with the Rams in a heartbeat… they got theirs!
2025 would be the tryout season for Darnold if you tag him. You let McCarthy sit and develop for one season, Sam gets a chance to prove he deserves a long-term contract and to be the franchise QB. Rodgers and Kirk were both over 35, Darnold is only 27. They're not the same. Darnold can be the guy for a decade.
This take is off because it forgot Brian Flores. The reason we have come this far is not Sam alone, but because of the unique defense that Flores brings. He leaves, and we are possibly back to square one on D with a lot of misfit pieces. They work in his system. You would be with Donald on a high contract without the assets to bring in premier defenders.
I’m 100% with Judd! If you bring back Darnold, it should be on a franchise tag! Let’s see if this is the “real” Darnold. Coordinators are going to have an entire year of good tape on him and could pickup on his flaws and exploit them. If Darnold repeats what he’s doing this year, trade McCarthy next off season.
he's coming back for at least next year, either franchise or flexible contract. the plan was to have JJ behind him, practicing, taking 2nd team reps, learning, etc. he's able to attend the meetings and be with the team, but he can't practice. NEXT year then will essentially be the first year of the "plan" with JJ practicing behind Sam. if JJ looks outstanding, maybe you trade Sam in season. if Sam looks out of this world, you extend him if franchised and then figure out what to do....keep JJ? trade JJ? as far as the franchise eating up cap, you have 76 mil in cap space. you can franchise him and still have 35 million; and nothing says you can't make your free agent aquisition's first year cap hit very low, like we did with Grenard, Van Ginkle, and Cashman to work around Kirk's and Danielle's dead money (remember, our QB Cap hit is over $40M this year due to Kirk's $28M dead cap) If Sam continues this level of play next year, I think it's obvious he's elite, not "pretty good" like Dak or Kirk, and I think the Lions, Bills, Chiefs, Eagles, Rams, and Ravens have shown that you can pay your guy and still dominate if he is elite.
Idc if Sam wins us a SB. Cant let him take up half of the available cap. Thats wasting JJs rookie contract like GB did with Love. The better we do with same the more we get when we trade him. If KOC can do this with Sam, he can do it with JJ.
@@laserchiefwankoo204exactly and I would like to believe until proven otherwise that JJ’s ceiling is higher than Sam’s. KOC has a proven track record of getting the best and most out of QB’s. So JJ missed this year for a lot of the physical stuff, we all know he was getting in the mental reps and I’m sure they probably had him doing VR throws in a chair or something so he was getting in practice making “live” reads. So I doubt they completely wasted year 1 for JJ.
Phil, you're crazy. You're saying Sam is only worth one 1st round pick?? He's gone up in value, he's worth two 1st rounds and a 2nd round. Yeah, JJ is untested and had a "surgery," take a 1st round pick for him, but Sam's stock is way too high for just one 1st rounder. First round picks aren't magical GOAT cards, you're not guaranteed anything! But with Sam we have results already!
Knowing how much Darnold would get in a trade after being franchised is a good question. Darnold could replenish all the picks the Vikings traded after last year. Plus, some NFL talking heads say it will be a weak free-agent class.
Thank goodness Judd is here to talk sense into Mackey! Why would you trade your hand-picked QBOTF for a 1st rd pick when you spent more than that to move up & get him?! Not to mention his higher ceiling & the time & resources spent scouting him.
Sorry Zed I’m with Phil on this and I have 5-6 takes on this 1) I don’t believe Mcarthy is really O’Connell’s guy. Do you remember after the draft that New England leaked that there were 2 teams trying to move up to the 3 pick and they mentioned us as 1 of the 2 and we’re closer to giving NE what they wanted for the 3 pick? I do believe NE and we were trying to move up and select Maye and when they couldn’t make it happen Mcarthy was a panicked pick being we had only Mullens as a QB on our roster 2) Mcarthy was the 4 QB taken in this draft not the 1,2, 3 but the 4: If Mcarthy is all that why didn’t the Bears take him number 1 overall then they like dual threat QBS 3) Mcarthy is a bust like Williams is! Jim Harbaugh didn’t let Mcarthy throw the ball 30-35 times a game like Maye, Daniels, penix , Nix why do you think that is? I know why it’s because he’s a game manager in the literal definition of the word nothing more and I’m appalled that we spent thev10 overall selection on a game manager 4) I question the naysayers who are afraid to have faith. I wasn’t 1 of the naysayers I knew he would succeed here because he for the first time in his career has a supporting cast around him! I mean people want to talk about his tenure with the Jets/Panthers so alright let’s go there then. Neither 1 of those teams had an offensive line and neither still do, but can you name me 1 just 1 offensive player on either team he had to throw the ball to or hand the ball to? I believe Breece Hall wasn’t there yet that Wilson got the opportunity to hand the ball of to Breece and Thielen wasn’t in Carolina yet or even if he was he’s washed up. 4) The veteran leadership wants Sam Darnold to be the QB going forward not Mcarthy. If Mcarthy is a bust and he will be a bust I promise you how are you going to look Jefferson, Addison, Hockenson in the eye and say with a straight face not to worry they got them. Do you want to lose a locker room that quickly? 5) Sam Darnold Naysayers I have a question for you, Do you really think Darnold is going to regress to his tenure with the Jets with this Offense and this Supporting cast? I don’t think so ; will he regress and next year not be quite as could as this one maybe, but I think it is far more likely he will continue to improve with each year he’s here think Andy Reid Pat Mahomes O’Connell against the Packers wasn’t calling dink and dunk let’s run the ball keep the clock moving, but he was asking Sam to make Franchise Qb throws and he made them even when up big late so if O’Connell trusts him in those situations why don’t we? 5) Hasn’t Darnold in this Offense and this supporting cast earned the benefit of the doubt? If not what does he need to do to earn it win the SB? Sometimes you have to have faith and we have been begging for a franchise QB since I can remember and no Dante was not a franchise QB he was in the Cousins Mold; that when we finally get one; however that might be luck in this case, what your just going to give him a handshake at the end of the season and say thanks for everything you did for us really 6) SanFranciso didn’t want to lose him in FA
Oddly, I feel the x- factor in the darnold discussion is Brian Flores. If he leaves, does the front office feel we can simply run it back next season? If the state of the defense isn't Superbowl capable, we don't sign a big qb contract for the short term.
I would keep both QBs. You can never have enough great QBs on your team. Franchise tag Darnold and see how 2025 goes. Continue developing JJ. At the beginning of 2026 is when they need to make long term decisions.
I’m with Judd on this I think. I think Kwesi will franchise Darnold, go see what kind of draft capital he can get for him, if it’s not rich enough - they just run it back with Sam next year. If a good team that seems like a good fit (preferably in the AFC, or maybe the Rams), is willing to give us their first round pick or maybe two seconds in 25 and 26 … I bet Kwesi takes that deal. If the price isn’t right out there, they just run it back one more year on the franchise. Or they offer Sam and his agent a two year deal with like 50+ guaranteed over two years and 40 the first year so they could trade him after next year. The threat of the franchise is a useful bargaining chip that I don’t think Kwesi will hesitate to use
Cousins has made this group so skeptical about a super solid QB.. Signing Darnold long term is a no brainer, he will not regress because coaching matters..
Literally impossible to make a decision on Darnold until we see how he performs in the playoffs, on the biggest stage, when it matters the most. If he plays like he has for the majority of this season and the Vikes make a deep run, of course you consider bringing him back. If he has a meltdown, McCarthy szn.
I would rather them let Sam sarnold move on in free agency than to stick him with the franchise tag. We have been a destination for free agents to come highlight there skills bounce and get paid we get compensatory picks and a good player for cheap for a year. If we start franchise tagging to save some money then free agents wont want to come here and we lose out in the long run.
Remember Sam was a linebacker in high school in his prime franchise him if play’s good next year then rethink options trading him for the sink if McCarthy good or trade McCarthy for picks team will win every way possible
I get this feeling Vikings are going to try doing With Jones what they did with Darnold.... Franchise tag and trade Sam. Give JJ a shot to compete for #1. Just my feel. Will see how play offs go
I would tag and trade for no less than 1 first and additional picks then tell JJ we are going to do the same thing with Daniel Jones we did with Darnold to get picks and a stronger team while he works on mechanics and getting stronger to keep him durable for the long run like Mahomes, Rogers, and others because long term I do believe in JJ
I feel the need to say this but Lions and Packer fans are so insecure man about the Vikings being a good team it’s hilarious. They’re so quick to post smack talk about a team that is 14-2 and act like they aren’t worthy to be in the discussion for best team in the league. Packer fans are just annoying but Lions fans really are scared the team will fall short again this year and I am sort of here for it. I was rooting for them last post-season but this year I truly hope they are one and done- praying that’s not the case for the Vikes though lol
They're honestly terrified. The Packers think they should just be gifted the division every year and the Lions are scared their one chance in 50 years is gonna get blown up. But we didn't weather 30 years of GB nonsense just to hand the division over to Detroit. The fact is that Love isn't anywhere near the QB that Favre or Rodgers were and Dan Campbells risk taking is guaranteed to produce a "Same Old Lions" result.
@@billhicks808 Cambell played his starters in a game last night with zero seeding implications. That to me is all we need to know that he is *not* Coach of The Year. He’s a good coach and deserves a ton of credit but let’s be real man he’s also an airhead as well.
@@tricksonafixed Campbells more a director of vibes than a coach. I'd never consider him a decent Xs and Os guy. He's smart enough to know that and get good coordinators but we saw how depending on coordinators goes under Zimmer.
The only difference I see is if you trade darnold you want a first this year and if you trade jj you want a first next year. Probably both command an additional 4th-5th.
I admire what Darnold has done but the Vikings need to keep the original plan. We franchise Darnold and have two options. We trade him for a 1st round pick or we keep him one more year and JJ McCarthy ready to take over in 2026. Don’t know why all the talk about releasing JJ McCarthy. The Vikings are not in a position to keep just one, we have a rookie QB that we need to step in to build a team around. Again the Vikings need to stay with the plan and start JJ in 2025 or 2026.
Don't forget we are Minnesota Nice. So I doubt we franchise tag Darnold. If we franchise tag him, and he doesn't do good next year and McCarthy takes over, Darnold loses and his career as a starter is over. Now, if we offer him and tell him the truth, that we can't pay him top dollar, and there is no garantee that he is the starting QB for next year and beyond, and he is ok with that, then fine. But don't franchise him and ruin his career. I don't think KOC will do that. I know it's a business, but this is where we owe Darnold as much as Darnold owes the Vikings.
We don't owe Darnold anything. This mindset is why we haven't been to the Super Bowl in almost 50 years. Trade him and stick with the plan. Loyalty and emotions kill the salary cap and prevent you from fielding a complete team.
I’m not down with a long term mega deal but I do love the franchise tag. Either you’ll get high draft capital for him or he’ll get year 2 in KOCs system while McCarthy is the backup
That interior O line is going to cost them a playoff game. Stick with the plan. Trade Darnold and use the cap space to upgrade the trenches, get a star rookie HB and a corner. Create a formidable run game and McCarthy is instantly better.
It's just a good locker room. The guys will pull for anyone. They were always hyped for Kirk too. They'll be just as hyped for McCarthy during his good moments.
@@CrudPig12 That was nearly a Super Bowl Celebration. But really , I think it was planned to send a message to management or by management to send to Darnold to help out with negotiations later?
I don’t think teams should be allowed to franchise tag player that they only had on a 1 year contract. It should probably be restricted to players who were on 3+ year contracts.
Franchise tag and trade Darnold. Start Mcarthy, 2025. This is a team game. The overall roster will be better without committing a bunch of money to 1 position.
I would love to keep Darnold and see how the team looks with him being paid more and sitting JJ for a few years. THAT IS HOW YOU BECOME THE PACKERS OR THE NINERS. Don't dump JJ and don't dump Darnold.
I propose that Jordan Love is the Kirk Cousins for Green Bay. He’s pretty good, cost a lot, but he’s not great. Overall he’s a gift to the rest of the NFC North.
there's a football noob around here that thinks love and cousins are elite.... SKOL😂
Cousins does not have the same talent level that Love has.
I've been saying the same thing since before the season even began. There are more parallels than you think.
And Sam is not that. He’s a very elite franchise QB who was stuck in a baaaad situation. It’s not even a question do you see how the team reacts to him in the locker room? They would be SO PISSED if they sent DARNOLD and he’s too good to just tag him and then what sit JJ for the next 8 clutch years DARNOLD will have? News flash. THIS IS SAM DARNOLDS TEAM. HE and only he is the true LEADER of that team. It’s OVER. They CANT keep JJ.
Love was good for 7-8 games last year, and the media completely forgets about the first 10 when he was terrible. This year he has been average at best. It’s why the Packers have leaned on the run. The more Love throws the more likely they are to lose. I think the demarcation is 30 passes. He’s the same inconsistent passer he was in college.
I disagree with Mackie here. JJ missed a season from injury. If you franchise Sam and keep both, JJ gets the season holding the clipboard he was supposed to get this year, continues to develop as the second string QB, and is ready to start in his 3rd year when you let Sam go if that is what’s best for the team. You can pickup JJ’s 5th year option and still potentially have him start 3 years on his rookie contract.
I think this question answers itself within weeks!
Plus, we can push money into the future on free agents we sign next off season preparing for Darnold’s contract to come off the books.
I trust KOC. If he goes with JJ, then that speaks volumes.
Definitely!
And if he chooses to go with Darnold? What then?
@@oel734it speaks volumes too. Has nothing to do with either of these guys and more to do with KOC
@@1230cjones Exactly, you nailed it!
Why didn’t you mention Sam?
you simply cannot get rid of JJ without knowing that Sam Darnold of this year is the Sam Darnold of the future. Tag him, run it back, if he accomplishes the same stuff, then try and trade JJ, or let him go and get a compensatory. But trading JJ this offseason is nonsense. Too often to we see one year wonders.
You dont trade jj. You trade sam who gives you a bigger return. You dont trade a top 10 pick before he steps on the firld
We see even more first round rookie busts than one year wonders
@@laserchiefwankoo204 JJ was the 5th QB drafted. Sam is playing like a top 5 QB now
Just sign Darnold 21 year old JJ can wait until you're done with Darnold or JJ takes his job and it's a win win
@@realistNFLof course he is. He is playing for a top 5 NFL unit. I would not lock into a Dak, Watson , Cousins contract. Is he going to produce like this with the Raiders or whoever else might be interested ? Not a 50 million a year QB
I don't expect JJ, as a rookie, to match Darnold's 2024 production. However, if he is everything KOC expects he should be, at the least, a middle-tiered producer. As long as we win in FA, the future will look bright as JJ improves.
"However, if he is everything KOC expects he should be, at the least, a middle-tiered producer."
>>> So after being shown Top-5 QB play, some vikings fans are willing to settle for middle-tier play. There are 3 letters in the word middle : M...I...D.
This is unreal that this is the prevailing attitude now.
@@oel734What’s unreal is the fans' attitude that Sam is now the answer, when these same fans were calling Sam a bust and downplaying the Viking's move to get him. Also, fans are now all of a sudden turning against JJ when in fact these same fans were ready to play him over Darnold before is unreal
@@oel734 You are missing the point. Mid is temporary. The roster is built with the money saved on the rookie contract and JJ develops into a top tiered QB. The roster should be able to carry JJ in the short-term, until he fully develops.
@@1230cjones 🤡
@@newdaddio5629 "until he fully develops"
>>> Fully develops into....what, exactly?
That's the big risk you are taking here. You just had someone respond that he would prefer McCarthy to be a "middle-tier"(aka Mid) QB instead of giving you Top-5 or 10 QB play. I mean really??? REALLY?
That's not why the Vikings traded up to draft him if that's the prevailing attitude now.
Ultimately, I trust KOC and Kwesi to make the right call.
I love the show and your insights, but here's how I see it: If the Vikings finish the season strong, the plan should be straightforward. We need to secure Darnold on a three-year deal, structuring it to push some money into later years, keeping his cap hit manageable in 2025 and 2026.
The two biggest factors in the above scenario are JJ's knee situation, assuming JJ will be just plug and play and how much the players seem to have rallied behind Darnold-you can see their confidence in him in the locker room footage. Keeping both JJ and Darnold is ideal, and I believe the leadership will find a way to make it happen. Skol!
No, they need to stick with the original plan. Trade Darnold, upgrade interior O line, get bell cow HB, get nose tackle and corner. You're not winning a SB paying a QB that much unless it's Mahomes.
JJ McCarthy is in no position to barder for a trade or anything. All he can do is sit and watch what happens and wait his turn. There is no reason to involve him in anything
Yes! You are absolutely right!
@@coreycarter1419 Hopefully he or his agent don't try to make waves. As u say , really no leverage
mccarthy won't try to get traded....he likes sam and was right in the mix during the celebration
Betting on Sam to do it again is a crazy bet to make at that price. Why would we not completely fortify our secondary, defensive front, IOL, and RUN GAME to form that bubble around JJ.
There are two scenarios I would extend Sam:
1. Super Bowl appearance after he "takes us there" in earnest, meaning he really put the team on his back and we lose a great game.
2. We win it all.
Otherwise: tag-and-trade, guarantee a 2nd round pick+, depending on who gets desperate/reckless. Do not let him walk without getting something for him outside of a comp pick.
You guys are great and I love the thought experiments and takes you bring to the table. Hopefully Dex ends up looking like Hulk Hogan by the time our season ends.
Happy New Year!
I agree with the first paragraph. I'm for trading him no matter what. If he wins the Super Bowl, do you really think he would run it back again? Only Mahomes, Brady, Elway, Aikman have done that over the last 30 years. McCarthy is going to be good. Fix that interior O line, get a nose tackle, a bell cow HB, and a corner. That will maximize McCarthys potential and get the offense from #10 to top 5 if he plays anywhere close to Sam Darnold.
@@okstate999 I only say sign him after a SB win because at that point we accomplished the mission lol but I agree, I would still be on the JJ wagon after a SB win.
@@userUncleMax San Darnold would help win you a SB and you'd still be all in on McCarthy? There's this section of Vikings fans that agree with you and I just smh. I really don't get this "chasing the cap savings" mindset. You hope McCarthy could reach where Darnold already is. Why would you toss away a MVP candidate just to hope your rookie QB (who has historically what...a less than 50% chance to be good) can one day be a MVP candidate? All for cap savings? Smart teams with top 7 QBs can manage paying the QB while paying other guys as well. Vikings fans are so gun shy ever since paying Kirk that you all have shot to the other side of the spectrum and now never want to pay anyone unless it's mahomes. Pay Sam his money. He's an MVP candidate for God's sake haha. What more do you want?
@@okstate999 JJ McCarthy is light years away from playing like Sam is right now. You guys are delusional if you think you can just plug in an unproven rookie and get the same results as you with Sam right now.
Vikings have lot of free agents. Going to be some holes to fill. Not many pics If rob can make the money work and kwesi can still fill the holes. Sign darnold up
Phil’s take on telling team’s to give up their 1st and have any of the 2 QB’s is crazy. Ward and Sanders may be the only 2 QB’s drafted in the first round and if JJ came back to Michigan in 2024, he may be the first pick overall. Before injury, the tape proved he could and would have played unlike Lance. You need 2 1sts for him or you would be a fool.
@@lifeisabouttheodds Nobody will give one 1st rd pick for McCarthy certianly not 2
JJ mcC is draft value the same as the #1 pick. 2 1st one of which is top 8 this year, you better throw in a starter. Vikings have the leverage here. Thinking Raiders here: 2025 1st rounder pick (currently 8) 2025 3rd round, 2026 1st rounder, and a player. Tom Brady minority owner, Michigan man. That deal might get me to let JJ go; otherwise, keep him. JJ is worth more than Carolina paid for Bryce Young.
@tmcdwldr JJ McCarthy worth pretty much nothing, maybe a 5th round pick. He is an unproven rookie, played two quarters in a preseason game tore up his knee. No team will pony up much at this time
Phil listen to Judd. He's right.
Oh dang I missed the live show. When it comes to Darnold. It’s time to seriously consider keeping him. Team loves him. That being said I trust the coaching. I will trust what they decide. I will definitely complain if they get it wrong though!
Phil, what's malpractice is ATL paying all that money to an aging QB coming off an injury. Darnold is young, in his prime and better than Cousins has ever been. Even before the pros.
Why not both?
$$$
If Sam is back for a team friendly 30 a year we could trade JJ for pick 45-60 and maybe that's our future center or nose tackle
@@everlastinglife5978Sam isn’t staying for 30 .. 40-45 at best .. and then it would be long term 3-4 years , at this point .
We need a Purple Daily Hall Of Fame. Randy should be inducted 1st ballot.
You can’t say you need to see more from Sam and be ready to move on to JJ when he’s got zero games to see for himself. This is a tough situation to think about, hopefully the playoffs tells us what to do.
The Vikings are sticking to their plan. So please let’s stop circling the wagon.
wagons*
You need two good qbs you have to keep both
Darnold really has no room to complain if he gets tagged. Without all that Minnesota set him up with, he’s looking at another one year backup or prove it contract. He has been helped out tremendously. Minnesota got one year out of this otherwise, while Darnold will get years of big bucks. You obviously would try to trade him to a team he’d like to play for. Non exclusive tag is the best option if you aren’t going forward with Sam. He could then negotiate with teams, and then work a trade.
I here for randy to go through the whole roster and practice squad and call them a stud
He's a idiot and a waste of time.
FOR REAL 😂
If they go out and win a Super Bowl this year I don’t give a damn what they do.
They can trade the entire roster for picks and rebuild for the next five years for all I care.
💯
Literally. All I want is a super bowl. Don't care who gets you there
😂😂😂
I could not agree more. I've been waiting 51 years. Just one before I go! Skol Purple Nation!!!!
Ikr. Who cares. Let's just get to the SB first.
Judd is correct. There’s only one scenario for us. We trade Darnold for whatever someone is willing to give us, and we run it with JJ McCarthy the next 4 years on a rookie contact. Build an absolutely ridiculous team around him and let KOC work his magic.
Sam darnold is top 5 right now you dont just flippantly send him down the road! Lol keep them both let Brazinski do his cap magic.
You dont waste a rookie contract like GB did with LOve. We can get value picks for Sam and have cap due to JJs rookie contract
@@laserchiefwankoo204 Rookie contracts don't matter if they're not top 5 QBs.
Waste of roster space to keep 2 starters. If darnold makes nfc chip or superbowl. Trade Mccarthy for a 1st and 2nd.
Goff has now done it for 2 seasons in a row
Mahomes
Burrow
Allen
Jackson
Goff
Darnold is not top 5. And i haven't even remotely thought about who else could be ahead of him. So at best, he is 6th.
@@lukelee32 Starters? I was not into McCarthy AT ALL based on what i saw of his college tape. My rookie QB ranks were:
Daniels
Nix
Penix
Williams
McCarthy
Maye
In his locker room speech two weeks ago KOC said about Darnold (paraphrasing) - he is ur quarterback, your leader, right now- the “right now” seems rather telling.
I remember that standing out
I didn't hear that, that is very telling
I don't think that means anything.
Easy - you bring Darnold back and McCarthy can sit behind him next year. No big lengthy contract for Darnold and I don’t think Darnold cares if McCarthy is behind him waiting for a chance. Two good qbs are better than one. Phil - slow down on the urgency to remove a qb. We’ve been without one for so long it’s okay to relax and just see what transpires over the next couple years. Enjoy the moment - this is NOT a problem. SKOL!
same here
This is such an unfamiliar position for the Vikings to be in. To have a QB as a legitimate All-Pro candidate, and on top of that a young gun slinger both of which could be the future for the next 10 seasons.
Sam isn’t going to take a friendly deal to be another year bridge for jj. This is sam’s best chance at signing a multi year starting deal. & Vikings also gonna need corners this offseason. This season just proved koc is legit and should trust him with jj.
Bradbury and Risner are going to cost them in the playoffs. They need to fix several spots on the roster before next season. Need a reliable HB and a nose tackle as well.
Trust Kwesi, KOC, McCarthy is the future. Thank you for your service Sam Darnold.
When has Kwesi shown that he can draft?
@@realistNFL, sure he’s had some bad selections. Addison? Not a good selection? I’ll listen about that one. KOC pretty much told Kwesi he wanted McCarthy.
@@chhinchhem3816 KOC wanted Drake Maye. Then they flew their entire staff to watch Penix's workout when they couldn't trade up.
@@realistNFL, that is very true. What is very true is that they also didn’t need to draft McCarthy if they didn’t think they could develop him to be their QB of the future. Addison not a good pick by Kwesi?
@@realistNFLWhen has KOC shown that he can’t work with any QB? Why is McCarthy not the option because Sam is having 1 good year?
The decision to stay with McCarthy is less about Kwesi than it is more about KOC’s ability to coach and mold a QB. You have to trust their process if you have any faith in the organization.
SKOL , To a healthy Happy New Year Purple Daily and everyone ! Make it Happen this coming year 🤞🍀 !!
It’s weird that Judd and Thor have this unshakable faith in McCarthy, yet are so skeptical with something that’s happening right in front of their eyes in Sammy. It’s almost like deep down they are hoping he falls apart in the playoffs.
Gotta keep Sammy if he keeps slinging it like he is
Phil has been converted, he’s just being subtle. I get the strong impression he wants Darnold back. Dex too possibly.
@@RM-ru3fk Journalism majors are always a little late to the table.
No the faith judd has is in KOC
They need another year to see wear JJ is with his knee .Darnold is playing well , but it's a special team , not just Darnold. Bad take considering trading JJ.
@@BatMasterson-4T also need another year to see if Darnold is legit.
We are contending with the Detroit Lions, who are not I repeat, not winning with a quarterback on a rookie contract. The day we got Sam Darnold I posted on X that this might be our Kurt Warner story. Yeah I get it. It’s a little different but my point being mostly based on potential and age. Just remember Kurt Warner was 28 years old when he signed with the Rams and he went on to the Hall of Fame. So let’s not get super crazy hung up on this rookie based contract philosophy being the only path to success in the NFL. I think John Malkovich said it best in rounders pay that man, his money skol.
Seriously. The whole argument is based on only paying elite QBs…it looks like we have one?
We need CBs (MULTIPLE)
We need an RB
We need DL reinforcement
We need a future RT and RG
There are simply too many holes to run this back as is - we GOT RID of Spielmam for a reason, we have too many holes aging out and too few picks stashed to cover them to keep Darnold... ship him for a 1 and 2 and stay the course
Detroits defense is terrible. They couldn't stop the 49ers until the 4th quarter. San Fran was ahead and scoring a TD on every drive. They aren't getting to the SB.
@@okstate999 Also remember that the Vikings ultimately held them to what-should've-been 28 points (if not for a Jordan Addison brain-fart preventing a 1st down conversion to Jefferson that would've iced the game for the Vikings but instead it led to the Lions getting the ball back and kicking the Game-winning FG to make it a 31-29 final).
Vikings scored 29 points against a then-healthy (sans Hutchinson) Lions Defense.
With all the injuries since then? I wouldn't be surprised if they DOUBLED-THAT amount.
And the Vikes defense, unlike the Lions, are HEALTHY (i recall Blake Cashman wasn't in that first game).
I'm smelling a big Vikings win on the road in Detroit this Sunday night.
He could be Kurt Warner or Nick Foles. Either way you get a SB title with both.
Best case scenario. Franchise tag and trade. But not sure if I'd wanna take that chance. I'd rather go with McCarthy, get great FA signings (DT, G, CB, C) and get BPA in the draft
I mean, going with JJ is taking a chance, too. I'm glad I don't have to make that decision. If O'Connell can get JJ to be at least 80% of what Darnold is, and include superior FA signings, I think we be just as good, if not better
We have to. Why rehab QBs if you're not getting any compensation...?
I want to see what the haul would be for Darnold! If we could get multiple top picks I think we have to at least consider...
JJ and build a juggernaut
You can’t know if JJ is gonna be good or stay healthy!!! Darnold looks to be a top 5 QB!!
This would have been a lot easier if the sports books were right on the 6.5 win total. But Sam has played great all season minus a couple games and now we are on the verge of a possible Number 1 seed and who knows after that. If he wins us the SB, I'm not sure how you don't back up the Brinks truck. The players obviously love him. This isn't the same as Kirk. Sam has risen up to the competition, doesn't checkdown and if he takes us far in the playoffs, it will be more than anything Kirk ever did. That's a franchise QB. At the very least you franchise him
There will be a lot of holes on defense to fill next year, especially in the secondary. Need to realize this is a great story with Sam, and really hope that McCarthy is a hit and use that extra cap to build a great roster around jj.
I guarantee Bradbury and Risner are going to cost us a playoff game. They may have had a good game 2 days ago but that was an anomaly compared to the rest of the season.
@@okstate999actually Bradbury was unable to get the sweeping LB’s from GB. And that is meant to be a strength.
i can't wait for you to get out of detroit ben
Yes, the "build around a QB on a rookie deal" myth... Every legit contender this year has a QB on at least their second contract and that has only really worked 3 times in the last 20 years with Mahommes, Wilson, and Flacco. The Vikings could have 10+ years of Sam Darnold if he doesn't have sustain any major injuries. Just pretend that this is the 5th year of Sam's rookie deal.
@@nathaniellarson8 It's not a myth, it just got us to 14-2 lol. Most wins since 1998. You think Darnold making 45-50mil+ is going to allow for a pro bowl guard or center, a reliable HB, a good nose tackle, and at least one good corner?
We literally just got out of a big money contract in Cousins. Hard to believe we would just jump into another with Darnold. All respect for Darnold and what he's done!
After watching Brock Purdy fall down to earth, San Fran is definitely looking at MN to see what they do with Sam.
Delusional. They let sam walk for a reason. Silly you
He's a great example of why I don't give Sam a ton of cash ... He will fall back to Earth
@@petemacinnes Cant fall back to earth when ya havent gone anywhere lolol.
Reports were that San Fran was pissed that Minnie poached him@@StillKeepOnLosing
@@RyanDrevlow Lmfao. LMFAO. LMFAOO. No. Silly you. They had $50M of cap space they disnt use. They coulda paid Darnold $50M to stay... Silly you
I don't disagree at all with Phil's line of thinking, but how does that reconcile with what he's been saying about Cousins? He's advocating for doing everything the Vikings did with kirk: 1. multi year deal 2. High salary 3. Pushing cap hits into future years to create a window right now and "worrying about it later" For the record I'm totally fine if they want to roll with Sam and change directions from McCarthy, but it is a path that's fraught with the possibility of ending up hamstrung just like you were with Kirk's deal.
I'm kind of in the camp that says you tag Darnold, play him one more year and sit JJ. Then you revisit this discussion a year from now. Then you'll at least have one more season of data about Sam on which to base your decision and you haven't burned up JJ's whole rookie contract.
like the second part play sam one more yr but if a 1rd pick is offer take it and trade donald
It seems that Phil isn't paying close attention to how Kwesi operates. So far, Kwesi has done a FANTASTIC job at getting GREAT talent without overpaying. It's like Kwesi adopted a philosophy similar to Billy Bean. Trust the process until we can't!
Lol if you don't see the difference between Sam Darnold and Kirk Cousins then you might need to get your eyes checked. Why do you think we are no longer complaining about a guard every week? Funny how as soon as you have a QB that can navigate a pocket and extend a play the offensive line is no longer the main focus of everyones ire.
Sam is 10x better than kirky
@@Adam-bx2br the issue isn't whether Sam is better than Kirk or vice versa. The question is philosophical: do you believe that paying any QB a really high salary over an extended period is the correct strategy versus trying to build around an inexpensive QB and make the best team possible? Phil's point has repeatedly been that he feels the Kirk contract was an anchor that kept this team from realizing its full potential due to the cap hits. I don't disagree with that. I'm just trying to figure out why Phil would be okay with doing the exact things he was against with Kirk if it's Sam instead. Maybe Sam is so many orders of magnitude better than Kirk that people feel he's worth the big contract. I'm not so sure yet which is why I'd hedge with the franchise tag.
I trust that KoC and KAM will make the correct decision regarding our qb, and that’s something I have never been comfortable with before as a fan of this team
Good talk guys, I would go with KOC thoughts.
Keep both. Franchise Sam. See how he does year 2, if he crumbles, then it’s a single year payout and we have JJ on standby ready to roll
Sam will not return if you franchise him. How can you do that to him and expect him to return?
@ the guy is going to make more money in one year than he has the last six combined. If does good in year 2, then the team knows they have something, and then he’ll know he’s lined up for generational wealth
@@SuperMex99 You're taking $60m in guaranteed money away from him and expect him to return?
@ he’ll get his payday one way or another for sure. If he goes to another team or us. With us, it’ll take another year. He’s in the best situation right now that he’s ever been in. He might go to another place and flop, then you’ll be singing the blues that he was a waste of money
Randy was about to hype up the whole team that's awesome
Love the show, love these guys. They are the best at what they do. Their content is well delivered, entertaining, and indispensable. That said, and this is just me, Randy from CG is regularly fast-forwarded. It T-bones the broadcast and for me, it just doesn’t work for me “as they say”. Keep up the great work guys in this, the most unexpected of Vikings’ seasons.
I used to feel this way, but this season with Van Jinkle has actually been pretty funny
Franchise Tag and Trade Darnold
Regardless how this season shakes out, what an awesome problem to have with regards to the quarterback and how great this team has played TOGETHER! love the show!
I watch because I love the show and am itching for Vikings content. But I’m so out on any conversation that does not involve the next 5 weeks
I can honestly say I trust whatever KOC and KAM decide. Other than drafts, these guys have done nothing but produce positive results.
koc knows for sure
JJ will be better. He looked better in preseason and will have had a year to study the offense. Sam will be franchise and traded to the Rams.
No he didn’t Mcarthy looked like trash when the 2 were in there, he only looked better when they were playing 3-4
Aaron Rodgers sat 3 years Jordan loves sat 3 years all kinds of top quarterbacks sat 3 years ...Darnold if we can afford him 😮
NO to trading Mccarthy, he is the man moving forward and with that we can build our franchise skol #9
We hope…JJ already has knee problems and, he’s never played an actual game. We have no clue if he can be good.
Gotta believe in KOC and Kwesi. Even if you KNOW what their plan was in August, you have no idea what their plan is today.
SKOL 💜💛💜 To the BOWL
1 year tag on Darnold and develop McCarthy
Good think Mackey isn’t the gm
I dont want another Farve magic ride, I dont want another Keenam magic ride. Were now on a Darnold magic ride... I'm tired of one and done. I want to ride with JJ, and a beast roster around him.
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Minnesota
Vikings
14-2-0
1st
NFC North
4.4%
14th
Off DVOA
28%
10th
Passing DVOA
-9.2%
18th
Rushing DVOA
-14.1%
3rd
Def DVOA
-10.2%
2nd
Def Passing DVOA
-21.2%
Phil spot on about the rushing impact on the offence.
We need to spend the cap room to resign some of the new guys and a D line stud. Two top corners - and Center with at least one guard
Maybe draft better so we don't need to spend so much on free agents like every Super Bowl team
“One day at a time” SKOL 💜💜
I've seen a lot of people comparing this to the Jordan Love situation, and I think that is a terrible take for two reasons:
1. What makes Jordan Love a success story? He hasn't won anything, and the Packers are a year or towo away from having to deal with the cap hits off his contract. They got basically nothing for drafting him.
2. Aaron Rodgers was near retirement. Packers had to think about the future. They jumped the gun, but at least the time frame made some sense.
Sam is 27. Theoretically, he could play like this for 7+ years. The only reason to want to hold both long term is if you think this year is unsustainable. And if that's the case, we should sell high on Darnold.
Tagging Darnold makes sense. Anything longer than that should also mean trading McCarthy.
The question is what does O’Connell want cause if we believe he is the QB whisper then we need to let him do what he thinks is best. If Darnold walks it’s because KOC thinks JJ has it.
he better be right or else it will be a disaster!
And he doesn’t think Sam has it at 14-2? He’s been scouting Sam’s and Sam was in high school. JJ McCarthy has done literally nothing this year.
It’s possible to keep both. Kurt Warner & Matt Leinart, Alex Smith and Mahomes, so on and so forth. You don’t get rid of your original plan for one years worth of production, especially when you don’t have to
But we also need to take into account. We have the oldest roster in the nfl. If you give darnold 40 out of the 75, we might have to go bargain basement hunting in free agency. Especially since we have limited draft capital this year
Randy is right, all 53 deserve to be mentioned, even if their contribution is small. And honestly, I don't remember Asamoah playing.
Oh, this will be a fun game next weekend - and if everything plays out well the Vikings will play the Lions again in the Championship game.
The Minnesota Vikings currently have the Highest paid WR in the League , 4 Year 140,000,000. They have the 2nd highest paid Left Tackle, 4 Year 104,000,000. and the 2nd HIghest Paid TE, 4 Year 68,500,000. If we sign Sam Darnold to stay wilth our team next year, we will be the Cincinnati Bengals with a Lesser QB. We signed 4 year contracts with these players so we can ride it out with JJ McCarthy's rooking contract. We need the rookie QB contract to maintain a superior team. I believe JJ McCarthy, under KOC, will be as good if not better than Sam Darnold. With the rooking contract, we will have $40,000,000 to spend on our defense. Teams with top 5 QBs ,who win, have strong defenses. The three contracts I listed at the start of this take, tell me we are trading Darnold and rolling with McCarthy. I only buy MN Viking jersey's of players that I hope will stay with the MN Vikings. My first jersey was a Chad Greenway Jersey,. My second Jersey was a rooking Harrison Smith Jersey,. I also purchased JJ McCarthy Jersey. SKOL Vikings!!! Darnold can win this year. JJ will be our stud the next three years.
Efforts must be made to keep both Sam in the short term is our present and JJ is the long-term future Minnesota is in a unique position in the league with a competitive QB like Sam and an ongoing project like JJ if they keep We talked to both of us about having our position secured for the next 10 years.
Tag and trade for kings ransom or tag and let jj and sammy compete for starter
McCarthy is coming off a major two surgery knee injury and is a completely unproven commodity. Imagine the pressure that you would be putting on a rookie coming off of injury to match this season production. The first sign of the team struggling would have the media going for the front office and jj’s throat and he would crumble. You have to let Darnold fail first to alleviate that pressure. So franchise tag if Sam matches this season’s success then sign to long term deal and flip McCarthy for picks. If the clock strikes midnight on darnold then you can go with McCarthy without the media pressure of what if.
This. It’s locker room suicide to discard Sam at this point
It would be similar to going to a high level college who has historically been great but has been real down lately. And then turning them around to win a national championship.
Let’s not lose sight of our mission… ONE before I die. I agree with ol Mackey… This roster has been the closest we’ve ever been in a long while… let’s stick with Sam for the foreseeable future, and flip JJ for picks. we can worry about the next window or next superbowls or next cap issues next time, because we have a shot this year and next year… Remember, step one is ONE Super Bowl … figure the rest out later… I would trade places with the Rams in a heartbeat… they got theirs!
Really still giving Randy time? He's as bad as listening to the old guys on FOX. 🤦♂️
2025 would be the tryout season for Darnold if you tag him. You let McCarthy sit and develop for one season, Sam gets a chance to prove he deserves a long-term contract and to be the franchise QB. Rodgers and Kirk were both over 35, Darnold is only 27. They're not the same. Darnold can be the guy for a decade.
This take is off because it forgot Brian Flores. The reason we have come this far is not Sam alone, but because of the unique defense that Flores brings. He leaves, and we are possibly back to square one on D with a lot of misfit pieces. They work in his system. You would be with Donald on a high contract without the assets to bring in premier defenders.
Randy 😂
shots of rumpy for everybody
I’m 100% with Judd! If you bring back Darnold, it should be on a franchise tag! Let’s see if this is the “real” Darnold. Coordinators are going to have an entire year of good tape on him and could pickup on his flaws and exploit them. If Darnold repeats what he’s doing this year, trade McCarthy next off season.
Other than the Minnesota Vikings subreddit, this podcast has the most unhinged takes and fans.
I thought for a minute Randy from Cottage Grove was going to get emotional and start breaking down.
he's coming back for at least next year, either franchise or flexible contract. the plan was to have JJ behind him, practicing, taking 2nd team reps, learning, etc. he's able to attend the meetings and be with the team, but he can't practice. NEXT year then will essentially be the first year of the "plan" with JJ practicing behind Sam. if JJ looks outstanding, maybe you trade Sam in season. if Sam looks out of this world, you extend him if franchised and then figure out what to do....keep JJ? trade JJ?
as far as the franchise eating up cap, you have 76 mil in cap space. you can franchise him and still have 35 million; and nothing says you can't make your free agent aquisition's first year cap hit very low, like we did with Grenard, Van Ginkle, and Cashman to work around Kirk's and Danielle's dead money (remember, our QB Cap hit is over $40M this year due to Kirk's $28M dead cap)
If Sam continues this level of play next year, I think it's obvious he's elite, not "pretty good" like Dak or Kirk, and I think the Lions, Bills, Chiefs, Eagles, Rams, and Ravens have shown that you can pay your guy and still dominate if he is elite.
Idc if Sam wins us a SB. Cant let him take up half of the available cap. Thats wasting JJs rookie contract like GB did with Love. The better we do with same the more we get when we trade him. If KOC can do this with Sam, he can do it with JJ.
@@laserchiefwankoo204exactly and I would like to believe until proven otherwise that JJ’s ceiling is higher than Sam’s. KOC has a proven track record of getting the best and most out of QB’s. So JJ missed this year for a lot of the physical stuff, we all know he was getting in the mental reps and I’m sure they probably had him doing VR throws in a chair or something so he was getting in practice making “live” reads. So I doubt they completely wasted year 1 for JJ.
Phil, you're crazy. You're saying Sam is only worth one 1st round pick?? He's gone up in value, he's worth two 1st rounds and a 2nd round. Yeah, JJ is untested and had a "surgery," take a 1st round pick for him, but Sam's stock is way too high for just one 1st rounder. First round picks aren't magical GOAT cards, you're not guaranteed anything! But with Sam we have results already!
No one is going to give up two 1st's and a 2nd for Sam after one good season.
Knowing how much Darnold would get in a trade after being franchised is a good question. Darnold could replenish all the picks the Vikings traded after last year. Plus, some NFL talking heads say it will be a weak free-agent class.
Thank goodness Judd is here to talk sense into Mackey! Why would you trade your hand-picked QBOTF for a 1st rd pick when you spent more than that to move up & get him?! Not to mention his higher ceiling & the time & resources spent scouting him.
Sorry Zed I’m with Phil on this and I have 5-6 takes on this
1) I don’t believe Mcarthy is really O’Connell’s guy. Do you remember after the draft that New England leaked that there were 2 teams trying to move up to the 3 pick and they mentioned us as 1 of the 2 and we’re closer to giving NE what they wanted for the 3 pick? I do believe NE and we were trying to move up and select Maye and when they couldn’t make it happen Mcarthy was a panicked pick being we had only Mullens as a QB on our roster
2) Mcarthy was the 4 QB taken in this draft not the 1,2, 3 but the 4: If Mcarthy is all that why didn’t the Bears take him number 1 overall then they like dual threat QBS
3) Mcarthy is a bust like Williams is! Jim Harbaugh didn’t let Mcarthy throw the ball 30-35 times a game like Maye, Daniels, penix , Nix why do you think that is? I know why it’s because he’s a game manager in the literal definition of the word nothing more and I’m appalled that we spent thev10 overall selection on a game manager
4) I question the naysayers who are afraid to have faith. I wasn’t 1 of the naysayers I knew he would succeed here because he for the first time in his career has a supporting cast around him! I mean people want to talk about his tenure with the Jets/Panthers so alright let’s go there then. Neither 1 of those teams had an offensive line and neither still do, but can you name me 1 just 1 offensive player on either team he had to throw the ball to or hand the ball to? I believe Breece Hall wasn’t there yet that Wilson got the opportunity to hand the ball of to Breece and Thielen wasn’t in Carolina yet or even if he was he’s washed up.
4) The veteran leadership wants Sam Darnold to be the QB going forward not Mcarthy. If Mcarthy is a bust and he will be a bust I promise you how are you going to look Jefferson, Addison, Hockenson in the eye and say with a straight face not to worry they got them. Do you want to lose a locker room that quickly?
5) Sam Darnold Naysayers I have a question for you, Do you really think Darnold is going to regress to his tenure with the Jets with this Offense and this Supporting cast? I don’t think so ; will he regress and next year not be quite as could as this one maybe, but I think it is far more likely he will continue to improve with each year he’s here think Andy Reid Pat Mahomes O’Connell against the Packers wasn’t calling dink and dunk let’s run the ball keep the clock moving, but he was asking Sam to make Franchise Qb throws and he made them even when up big late so if O’Connell trusts him in those situations why don’t we?
5) Hasn’t Darnold in this Offense and this supporting cast earned the benefit of the doubt? If not what does he need to do to earn it win the SB? Sometimes you have to have faith and we have been begging for a franchise QB since I can remember and no Dante was not a franchise QB he was in the Cousins Mold; that when we finally get one; however that might be luck in this case, what your just going to give him a handshake at the end of the season and say thanks for everything you did for us really
6) SanFranciso didn’t want to lose him in FA
Oddly, I feel the x- factor in the darnold discussion is Brian Flores. If he leaves, does the front office feel we can simply run it back next season?
If the state of the defense isn't Superbowl capable, we don't sign a big qb contract for the short term.
I would keep both QBs. You can never have enough great QBs on your team. Franchise tag Darnold and see how 2025 goes. Continue developing JJ. At the beginning of 2026 is when they need to make long term decisions.
I’m with Judd on this I think. I think Kwesi will franchise Darnold, go see what kind of draft capital he can get for him, if it’s not rich enough - they just run it back with Sam next year. If a good team that seems like a good fit (preferably in the AFC, or maybe the Rams), is willing to give us their first round pick or maybe two seconds in 25 and 26 … I bet Kwesi takes that deal.
If the price isn’t right out there, they just run it back one more year on the franchise. Or they offer Sam and his agent a two year deal with like 50+ guaranteed over two years and 40 the first year so they could trade him after next year. The threat of the franchise is a useful bargaining chip that I don’t think Kwesi will hesitate to use
Cousins has made this group so skeptical about a super solid QB..
Signing Darnold long term is a no brainer, he will not regress because coaching matters..
Literally impossible to make a decision on Darnold until we see how he performs in the playoffs, on the biggest stage, when it matters the most. If he plays like he has for the majority of this season and the Vikes make a deep run, of course you consider bringing him back. If he has a meltdown, McCarthy szn.
If I’m the Vikings I’m going to the combine to shop Darnold and tagging and trading him for a 1st and go and get Ashton Jeanty or Kaleb Johnson
Can you imagine the Vikes offense w Jeanty AND Aaron Jones? Plus maybe add in a stud center or right guard?? Duuude
@@jakebromley8255 yo fr and imagine if we get a chance to draft a combination of Ashton Jeanty and a DT, or Kaleb Johnson and a better defender
We love you Randy moss get well 🙏🙏🙏
I would rather them let Sam sarnold move on in free agency than to stick him with the franchise tag. We have been a destination for free agents to come highlight there skills bounce and get paid we get compensatory picks and a good player for cheap for a year. If we start franchise tagging to save some money then free agents wont want to come here and we lose out in the long run.
I think if we can sign Sam for a reasonable contract do it. If not tag and play him back or trade him. We can’t get into cap hell again
Remember Sam was a linebacker in high school in his prime franchise him if play’s good next year then rethink options trading him for the sink if McCarthy good or trade McCarthy for picks team will win every way possible
I get this feeling Vikings are going to try doing With Jones what they did with Darnold.... Franchise tag and trade Sam. Give JJ a shot to compete for #1. Just my feel. Will see how play offs go
i agree as much as i love this season i don't want to commit so much cap space to one player but it's fine whatever they decide.
I would tag and trade for no less than 1 first and additional picks then tell JJ we are going to do the same thing with Daniel Jones we did with Darnold to get picks and a stronger team while he works on mechanics and getting stronger to keep him durable for the long run like Mahomes, Rogers, and others because long term I do believe in JJ
Randy is a legend 😂😂😂
Hot take, i don't necessarily agree with: Sign Darnold, trade McCarthy, draft big needs in 1st round. Use remaining cap space to crush it in FA.
I feel the need to say this but Lions and Packer fans are so insecure man about the Vikings being a good team it’s hilarious. They’re so quick to post smack talk about a team that is 14-2 and act like they aren’t worthy to be in the discussion for best team in the league.
Packer fans are just annoying but Lions fans really are scared the team will fall short again this year and I am sort of here for it. I was rooting for them last post-season but this year I truly hope they are one and done- praying that’s not the case for the Vikes though lol
They're honestly terrified. The Packers think they should just be gifted the division every year and the Lions are scared their one chance in 50 years is gonna get blown up.
But we didn't weather 30 years of GB nonsense just to hand the division over to Detroit. The fact is that Love isn't anywhere near the QB that Favre or Rodgers were and Dan Campbells risk taking is guaranteed to produce a "Same Old Lions" result.
@@billhicks808 Cambell played his starters in a game last night with zero seeding implications. That to me is all we need to know that he is *not* Coach of The Year. He’s a good coach and deserves a ton of credit but let’s be real man he’s also an airhead as well.
@@tricksonafixed Campbells more a director of vibes than a coach. I'd never consider him a decent Xs and Os guy. He's smart enough to know that and get good coordinators but we saw how depending on coordinators goes under Zimmer.
The only difference I see is if you trade darnold you want a first this year and if you trade jj you want a first next year. Probably both command an additional 4th-5th.
I admire what Darnold has done but the Vikings need to keep the original plan. We franchise Darnold and have two options. We trade him for a 1st round pick or we keep him one more year and JJ McCarthy ready to take over in 2026. Don’t know why all the talk about releasing JJ McCarthy. The Vikings are not in a position to keep just one, we have a rookie QB that we need to step in to build a team around. Again the Vikings need to stay with the plan and start JJ in 2025 or 2026.
Don't forget we are Minnesota Nice. So I doubt we franchise tag Darnold. If we franchise tag him, and he doesn't do good next year and McCarthy takes over, Darnold loses and his career as a starter is over. Now, if we offer him and tell him the truth, that we can't pay him top dollar, and there is no garantee that he is the starting QB for next year and beyond, and he is ok with that, then fine. But don't franchise him and ruin his career. I don't think KOC will do that. I know it's a business, but this is where we owe Darnold as much as Darnold owes the Vikings.
We don't owe Darnold anything. This mindset is why we haven't been to the Super Bowl in almost 50 years. Trade him and stick with the plan. Loyalty and emotions kill the salary cap and prevent you from fielding a complete team.
I’m not down with a long term mega deal but I do love the franchise tag. Either you’ll get high draft capital for him or he’ll get year 2 in KOCs system while McCarthy is the backup
@ if you think Darnold has been mediocre this year you either don’t watch football or you live under a rock 😂😂
That interior O line is going to cost them a playoff game. Stick with the plan. Trade Darnold and use the cap space to upgrade the trenches, get a star rookie HB and a corner. Create a formidable run game and McCarthy is instantly better.
This question used to be so easy, keep JJ, now I guess let it play out but the joy in the locker room for Sam was plain to see
It's just a good locker room. The guys will pull for anyone. They were always hyped for Kirk too. They'll be just as hyped for McCarthy during his good moments.
@@CrudPig12 That was nearly a Super Bowl Celebration. But really , I think it was planned to send a message to management or by management to send to Darnold to help out with negotiations later?
I don’t think teams should be allowed to franchise tag player that they only had on a 1 year contract. It should probably be restricted to players who were on 3+ year contracts.
Franchise tag and trade Darnold. Start Mcarthy, 2025. This is a team game. The overall roster will be better without committing a bunch of money to 1 position.
if you're QB isn't great, your team will be mediocre at best regardless of the roster.
I would love to keep Darnold and see how the team looks with him being paid more and sitting JJ for a few years. THAT IS HOW YOU BECOME THE PACKERS OR THE NINERS. Don't dump JJ and don't dump Darnold.