I did stall spin entry and recovery training both in my civilian training and in my USAF pilot training, so I am not against the idea. On the other hand, as much as I am glad I got to do the spin training I am not at all sure it would make me any less likely to get myself killed in a low altitude stall spin. What is useful is to understand the conditions that cause a stall spin accident and train to avoid them. I flew B-52s and watched in horror the video of the famous B-52 crash at Fairchild as a very experienced pilot destroyed a B-52 and killed it's crew in a scenario almost identical to what is described in the above video. He saw he was overshooting his turn, and was going to fly over the weapons storage area (not ok) so he pulled harder and lost control of the plane close to the ground. We didn't practise spins in the B-52, we didn't even practise stalls, only the approach to a stall (vibrations), but were keenly aware of the dangers of actually stalling, forget about spinning the plane, high up or near the ground. So spin entries and recovery is fun, interesting, helpful to someone doing aerobatics, which I love, but spin prevention is much more useful in normal flying.
@@haykodjan I agree with your steeper glide slope so you're not depending on your engine to reach the runway. But if you have an air cooled engine, you should have a little throttle in to so the engine doesn't cool off too much. Plus, it's more likely to stop running with the throttle closed.
@@adhdrenalin4392 Dude, if you fly cleanly, you won't ever need to recover from a spin unless you're in aerobatics. When you've been trained however (which not always the case whatever you believe), you know how much hight is lost before recovery can happen. Then you also know that when turning final too low, if you turn flat while refusing the ground (which is what your reflexive brain shouts you to do) you're probably dead. In a powered aircraft, the conscious brain should remain in control by going around. So that was my point.
I used to enjoy getting some altitude and practice some 3 and 4 turn spins, both directions and the old falling leaf maneuver. Should definitely be brought back!
Only if you have enough recovery altitude. Most of these scenarios don't. So you're dangerously wrong in claiming it saved your life. Below 800-1000 you're dead. No matter how good you think you are.
This is really cool. I don’t know planes or flying, but I’ve always been fascinated by the intelligence required to maneuver one. This video is awesome.
That's why this video makes no sense. There is a reason there is a max bank angle when climbing and descending. If you follow that you won't risk stalling in the first place.
@@jasonMB999 bank angle is irrelevant because you can stall at 5 degrees of bank if you exceed the critical angle of attack. Limiting bank angle gives you a false sense of security.
Am I crazy to say that if Stall-Spin accidents on final are this common then perhaps mandatory stall-spin training should be reinstated for all licences? Why was it ever removed from PPL training? If people who take flight lessons don't like it, then flying isn't for them. Stall-spin training has proved to be a life saver so why this experiment of not requiring it has not been ended???
+Peter Pasieka It was removed (In America) because too many students and instructors were having accidents during training. Now spin recovery is taught on the ground only. There are some instructors and schools that will let you spin their planes, but they are far and few between because insurance is cheaper with the "no spins" placard.
+Peter Pasieka Would there be time to recover on short final only 800- 1000 feet up? Still it's a good idea: We had 20 hours in simulated IFR conditions, unusual attitude recovery and spin/spiral dive recovery as mandatory (in Canada in the early 90s)
Ok....long final. It's been over 20 years. I've probably forgotten everything! Still I remember the HASEL check. These manoeuvres require some altitude to complete.
You go over spins and recovery demonstrations ONLY, while doing your PPL in Canada but anywhere in the world the most important thing to teach is how to prevent it from happening, if your turning from base to final you're probably about 1000 feet the highest but more commonly you'd be lower most likely leaving not enough room for recovery
Super description of Preliminary Graveyard Spiral. I got caught inverted in a Mooney, but we were above 10,000 ft practicing stalls, and engine off.......got caught by a stiff updraft and we were in serious peril. I could reach the yoke, and pedals, because I was taller, with long arms.......flying left seat was a slightly built CFII......as we were getting our asses and Spines sucked back from the Instrument Panel.......I got control, and worked with him to right the Acft, and Agreed not to reveal our Danger.....he was such a good, and giving Pilot. This was a shakedown flight for a turbo Mooney, so he was the most valued, Safe Pilot, entrusted to fly , and bring it home checked off. I was Service/ Parts guy just watching instruments, and worrying about Engine and Hydraulics. Anyway, after this event, my CFII quit flying and became a pharmacist.......Don't EVER think you can't get into a roll, stall, or inverted when you're in the Pattern. We weren't, in the Pattern, and the only thing that saved us, we were out in the practice area, at a high altitude for a Mooney. Would have been certain Death on Final
Agree that going around is always the safest option and have done so many times when I found myself off of the centerline. However, I do want to ask if it would be alright as long as the pilot does a COORDINATED steep turn with an acceptable airspeed?
I’ve overshot the turn to final before. Unless it’s a massive overshoot, I’ll just add throttle, do a quick banked & coordinated S-turn with ample wing loading to get on the centerline, and then go back to normal approach.
You can memorize spin recovery procedures all you want, it's another thing altogether when you're asked to implement that memory when put into a spin in an airplane.
I think the explanation is great. The animation of how the plane enters the spin sucks, but the rest is great. I watched this clip becasue on a flight yesterday I had such a strong tailwind on base leg tat I overshot the centerline too. I tried to get back on it by steepening the bank and beeing careful to keep the nose down but at a certain bank I realized it doesn't feel good so I shallowed the bank and let the wind carry me beyond the centerline. With a 30 degree bank and the nose down I flew back to the centerline and aligned with the runway with a 30 degree right turn ... I would landed halfway down the (9000 ft) runway, but opted to go around because I was too fast aswell. This was in a Cirrus SR22.
Hard rudder stick back will always induce a spin (snap roll ), even with ailerons neutral, and is the first step into the Lomcovak maneuver, the controls are just reversed to complete it, very deadly at low altitudes.
There is an article in AOPA magizine, maybe Aug. 2018 issue, about why "pilots don't know how to turn". As far back as the 1940s in a famous book called "Stick and Rudder" the authur noted that "pilots simply do not know how to turn". Very many do no know to neutralize the rudder after the bank is achieved. Thus, when making a left turn from base to final they continue to skid around the turn with left rudder. Should the airplane stall in this condition, it will roll over in the direction of the applied rudder. In other words, it will enter a spin if the stall is continued. Many pilots very close to the ground will forget their stall training and pull back on the control wheel while low to the ground. The result is a stallspin crash. A while back ago, I read an article in AOPA or IFR mag, can't remember which, which stated that most stall spin accidents occur after the engine quits on takeoff. This seems more probable to me because the nose is already high, the plane is low to the ground and the pilot is surprised and doesn't react immediately. If a pilot overshoots base to final close to the runway and is inexperiences, it is probably better to just go around and try it again. But if the plane is far out on a wide base and overshoots the final, do NOT skid the plane around to turn while near a low stall condition. If high enough, keep the turn coordinated and unload the Gs. That means to relax the load factor while turning. That also means, letting the nose fall and let the speed pick up a little while making a coordinated turn. There is nothing wrong with a 30 degree bank in the pattern if you keep the ball centered and you are not flying close to a stall. This is why I don't like to drag in the plane in low and slow.
Bingo. Proper training will prevent almost all stall spins. Inside rudder will change where the nose is pointing but does a really lousy job of changing the velocity vector- that's what the wings are for, ie, a coordinated turn. If you can't land without screwball maneuvers, go the BLEEP around. A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid the situation where his superior skill is needed to save his life. (adjust pronouns to suit.)
Always fly safely within the flight envelope of the aircraft... this envelope is smaller in the circuit. Stall, Spin & Spiral recovery training is done in Canada at 3500AGL minimum ... not only sounding the stall horn, but buffeting and going into a real stall... I believe in the USA they don't want you even sounding the stall horn, because you'll become complacent to that sound...in Canada we ride the stall horn practicing slow flight...Spins are done in a certified aircraft (Cessna) cut power, neutral ailerons, opposite rudder to spin rotation.... spirals, cut power, level aircraft and slowly ease out of the dive, when gaining altitude then go full power... aside from circuits, this training (stalls/spirals/spins) is the most important exercises you'll do as a pilot. (in my opinion)
Not only inside rudder will produce a spin, if you do a Panic Pull due overshooting final messup you will stall faster and spin faster too. I used to teach that kind of Panic Pull Stall Spin, even on Cherokees and Piper Tomahawks. I had to put with so many Pansy Pilots that could do only Mild Maneuvering.
What surprises me most, is that pilots simply don't know this. I've been a licensed glider pilot decades ago, and a spin low to the ground is one of the classic ways to cause your own funeral. Spin recovery training is a joy in gliders, and everybody learns it. No dangerous insurancy restrictions preventing pilots learning basic skills. And alternating steep turning is part of the exams, so you must learn to make coordinated turns, to control your airspeed all the time and watch around you. Pulling a little G is part of the job. For thermals those steep turns are not necessary, it's just good to know that you control the plane, in case you need such a very steep turn. In other aviation video comments I mentioned this spinning risk. But the inexperienced pilots simply would not listen. And even experienced pilots (there was a Cherokee pilot among them) started scolding. Who are you to tell us bla bla bla, instead of reading what I warned them for. Being oldschool I wonder how those arrogant guys are going to survive. The solutions are relatively simple, but you have to know the dangers very well, to solve the problem. Fear of keeping the nose low and fear of steep banking, that's it. Thank you, I hope many pilots read it and ask a proper flightschool for spin recovery training. Not all planes are friendly, better practice with an instructor, than crashing. You don't really want to use that emergency chute, don't you? Do those RPL (or how it's called) pilots use emergency chutes? Those planes don't even have 5 straps seatbelts, I saw. Just the car belt system, sometimes. I don't understand that. Is that for those softie softie pilots? For aerobatics and heavy turbulence you want proper seatbelts. But okay, that's enough. Let's conclude I'm worried about safety, and some habbits and things amaze me. The how on earth effect. The answer is: spinning.
@@voornaam3191 100% on spot.. SA GA needs that military style training but NOOOOO!! How you want us to do hard practice?? NOOO!! Too many chicken pilots on USA GA stopping others from practicken and exercising.. Chumps with a big mouth all oveer
Cross control stalls need to be a part of training. During my training I had read something about cross control stall and asked my instructor about it while flying at altitude. He reduced power and speed then went full right aileron and full left rudder. The Tomahawk immediately did a snap 360 roll/spin. When you’re in a bank, the rudder acts more like an elevator. When the plane is in a bank or level,the rudder pitches the nose back and forth. If you’re in level flight that would be back and forth from 9 o’clock to 3 o’clock. If you’re in a 90 degree bank that would be up and down from 12 o’clock to 6 o’clock.
Any CFI that teaches spins on a Tomahawk is a real CFI. Tommy's fixes or kicks away the clods immediately. Hard airplanes make hard to knock down pilots..
5feetgoaround fullflapsC150 My CFI was a 12,000 hour former Air Force pilot. I had researched the Tomahawk before lessons began so I was well aware of the tendency for it to spin as the stall is entered. In my case, the left wing dropped. I picked it right back up with the rudder. Then recovered just like any other plane.
Not only should spin recovery training be mandatory, I'm also of the opinion that we need to re-think the "one size fits all" method of flying in the pattern. Fly a longer approach if you have the room, carry a little extra speed (energy), and bleed it off. Not a LOT more. Just a bit.
I'm not afraid of go arounds, I never let the yaw ball get out of the brackets unless I intend to... I'm comfortable with 90° bank if it's called for, like an emergency dodge. Then my only consideration is structural load limits vs. avoiding the threat.
For VFR (visual flight rules) a circuit pattern is established to give an orderly method of traffic control, much like driving one way around a parking lot.
There are a couple reasons. First of all if there are many aircraft in pattern, it helps to create larger intervals between the planes, just by extending the downwind. Second of all, at least what I am taught is that while on base it's always good to check your landing area for any obstacles and other stuff so you are sure there's nothing to worry about, or if there is u would need to fly over it(I am in glider training, hence no go arounds) and maybe some other reasons that I am not aware of
I have been taught, turning onto final from base use only 15 aob to line up with the runway if an overshoot seems clear slower steepen to 30. and I see why.
Nice “heads up” video. But, If a pilot induces a spin using too much rudder in an uncoordinated flight, at slow speed and pulling back the stick too hard he/she probably won’t know how to recover from it either.... of course recovering from a spin is elemental to flight training, but once I watched a video about how training about avoiding stall would be much more eficient and it compares to airline jets training. I flew from j3 to 727 and had many kinds of training in life, and I agree with that, train pilots to avoid stall situations, to know how much speed he must maintain as a minimun at each fase of flight sounds more eficient. Anyway, this is an awesome “heads up” video.
As a person who’s done flight instruction with simulators only; i would’ve liked to hear the turn coordinator mentioned. My understanding is that rudder is needed to turn and this video is saying don’t use it. Kind of confusing with my level of knowledge.
Some of the accidents on base to final might be misdiagnosed. Doing a slip which is also cross controls and the flaps being inboard where the primary lift is it's a case of trying a slip the fuselage of the aircraft blocks out airflow to the only lift that's where the flaps are inboard next to the fuselage. Do not practice spins or slips with flaps because that's a spin practice only for CFII's. It's no joke when two guys have to get against the windscreen to get the nose to go down like can happen with some spins after stopping the rotation. Even a nose down/dead spiral will black you out while hearing noises you never knew the plane could make. Long story short, don't do slips with flaps while slow because it is dangerous as heck when all or part of the lift is at the flaps section of wings.
I always do slips - they help loose energy... Always with extra speed - which is causing to lose some more.... Ending up with low and rather fast glide slope. At the designated point I am okey-ish, dumping the flaps and stick to the ground. However, this is not standard landing procedure, just a bad competition flying habit.
@@PovilKa I guess the type of airplane can make a huge difference. I've been a glider pilot, and the types I have flewn could spin quietly, and after recovery VNE never was a problem. Modern gliders don't have those huge airbrakes no more, so a dive after recovery is a risk, pull up firmly. Thanks to the very low stall speed of gliders, forward slipping is the safest thing in the world. What happens is that the angle of attack changes, it's getting smaller, so you can never stall a slipping glider. That is, in normal landing configuration, flaps down. Flaps up and low speed is always a bad idea. And the gliders I have flown slipped the most effective with the nose very high. To pilots of one engined planes, that is probably unbelievable. Slipping the safest thing in the world? No way! Spinning from 9,000 feet till 2,000 feet? Is that a Pitts Special? No, just a modern club glider. I guess this all has to do with low airspeeds, extreme low wing loads and low weight, keeping those planes flying, where powered planes with their smaller wings could stall and spin in the same conditions. Adding extra problems, like an aircooled engine that can cool down too fast, during a steep descent. Yes, planes are not the same. Fly safe.
It's so stupid that the average instructor teaches stall after stall recovery but not pin recovery. If you are going to be a pilot you better be comfortable recovering from spins. It may very well be your life.
The Last Rebel Show they teach it on the ground, but it is considered to be not worth the risk for private pilot training. Too many students were being killed by their instructors.
Then the USA CFI's are the ones no good for spins. Most USA CFI's are used to mild maneuvering only. IFR kind of maneuvering all Mild Maneuvering ONLY. Most USA CFi's are afraid of spins due like to be only "Mild Maneuvering CFI's". Pansy Pilots. The former Military excluded of course. But most USA CFI's are pansies I found. I was the Aerobatics and take off emergencies specialist at my airport. Pansie Pilots used to say "He is a tough CFI". Retired now. Do other hobbies instead of flying.
@@CFITOMAHAWK2 The Commercial Handbook states no maneuvers which push the air vehicle into this situation and why *anybody* would apply inside rudder just there makes me glad that I stay on the ground now
@@ChiDraconis-- Pansy Pilots are the ones that crash most via pilot error. And they cowards even make books and videos telling you not to practice any hard maneuver. That is like obese guys making videos criticizing people who exercise. DAm Pansy Pigs posing as CFI's are the root of so many pilot error tragedies in USA. They infiltrated the FAA and promote half training and lowering the standards too in the milenium. Now you dont even have to demo MCA slow flights and most hard maneuvers in USA. You can be a Mild Maneuvering Maggot and get all kinds of USA pilot licenses. Corrupted Clods all over.
@@CFITOMAHAWK2 Commercial Examiners Handbook clarifies we do not attempt edge of envelope when pushing paper; Such as the Certification of MAX-8 with HUge Engines hung on prior air-frame then saying it is the same aircraft
Watching this video makes me realize how much I miss flying the Zling. Sure it was a SOB when flying a cross country but everything else demanded your attention and was an amazing aircraft to fly.
I second that. It's been a year or so since I flew Zlin . I've some hours on Z42 which is very similar to Z142. It's absolutely awesome airplane to fly. The view from it, the handling, the airplane itself .. awesome. On engine failure it goes down like a brick but that's another story :)
The most valuable lesson is...GO AROUND! I wish people would do that while driving when they missed their exit and not just cut me off which I drive a semi 80,000 lbs
Interesting.... one can describe this as a low level cross control stall ie: combining aileron with opposite rudder. Also thinking the reason for overshooting the centerline is very relevant in this situation especially given the many illusions caused by drift. Question: Would a left crosswind aggravate the angle of attack of the left wing while in a skidding turn onto final ?
Am I crazy or is it not that hard to get back aligned with centerline just with banking the aircraft and maintaining coordination? I do it all the time. It’s not typical that I roll out perfectly on centerline
I went through and became certified never actually encountering a real spin. Now, I'm looking for a place that will teach aerobatics, for my own (and the those below me)'s sake.
I did spin recovery during my training and I am glad I did. If you have not experienced it you might not understand what was happening till it was too late. It's also a lot of fun!
It is not a free fall, the aircraft has significant air resistance even during a spin so it is just a rapid descent. Pulling out of the dive during recovery is about +1g slightly unpleasant, but not enough to cause a blackout. Some people find the rotation upsetting and have thrown up - the guy before me did and the instructor had a bucket and mop out, so I knew what had happened!
This is one of my main topics! When stalled, all airplanes will spin (or even “snap”) away from the ball! This is why low altitude, “ground patterns” are so important! Pilots need be able to interpret what they see is happening near the ground when the aircraft being affected by wind. In this case, the “deadly downwind turn.” Moral: Keep @&#$ing ball in the middle. Keeping the ball centered will give the pilot lots of buffeting, prior to any spin, thus giving that pilot time to get his head back out of his ass, and fix the stall. Bill C.
I wish I saw these videos before flying my Remote Control plane, it entered a Stall spin just before landing and now I have to watit to save up money for a new plane. :(
The 3 basic rules in aviation are #1: speed #2:speed #3: SPEED regardless of weather your turning final or whatever your doing if we have the right speed we can go as hard as we want even turning final !
@@maxhaines3794 Yes but SPEED is only relevant according to the direction of "THE RELATIVE WIND"..... the exact direction of the relative wind hitting the wing is your angle of attack... you could be going 500 kts but if the "relative wind" hitting the wing has exceeded the angle of attack then that speed MEANS NOTHING. I think you can't pinpoint the most important factor, but Angle of Attack is #1 and Speed (which is really just airflow over the wing) is #1.2!... example: you could have an indicated airspeed of 100kts and plenty of flow over the wing, but your ground speed can be 1kt.... think of an airplane as traveling inside the tube of a train.
Lot of these start with engine failure on take off pilot attempts turn back to the airport they no longer have engine helping to produce lift they might have a bad habit of using rudder to correct overshoot base to final. They try the same thing again with the turn back and stall spin.
I find this curious. I am in no way a trained pilot, I play flight sims and largely just picked up how to fly in a simulator by playing simulators. I don't claim to know what it's actually like to fly a plane and I have no formal training. But I found myself in a situation like this the other day. I was in FSX and was coming in a bit fast on base at ronaldsway airport. In an attempt to shed some speed before turning on to final (as I wouldn't slow down fast enough descending on final) I left turning a bit late and found myself off the centerline and admittedly a bit high. It seemed natural to me that this was a missed approach so I scrapped it and went around. Now I really botched that approach but even if it was more in the margins, I don't see myself trying to use the rudder at low speed to try and "swing the nose around", if I couldn't get the plane reasonably in line and the approach under control in good time using normal sorts ofprocedures then I'd rather go around. It's weird to me that so many trained GA pilots kill themselves trying this sort of maneuver rather than take a few minutes to fly around the pattern once more.
Many pilot are still under the misconception that the rudder turns the aircraft. Roll is a byproduct of yaw. Rudder induces or reduces yaw. The turn comes from the horizontal component of lift in a banked attitude. Rudder is there to counter the adverse yaw and nothing else. If more pilots took the time to learn the connection between the various attitudes and movements and the processes in which a stall spin can occur there would be less occurrences. Unfortunately until the training changes the misconception will continue.
They really need to bring spin recovery training back to the ppl curriculum. Recognizing it, preventing it, knowing how to get out of it. Given the number of base-turn spins we see, somebody tell me how real spin-recovery training (not just a paper drill) won't save lives.
Because most people can’t possibly recover from a low-altitude spin. I’ve done lots of spins but if I spin during a departure stall or a turn to final, I’m done.
I agree with you. My thinking is, if an instructor doesn't get his student confident with his ability to recover from a spin, then he might be afraid to practice stalls, because they might get away from him.
It doesn’t matter how good you are at recovering from a spin if you enter a spin turning onto base - you don’t have enough altitude to recover. What is more important than spin recovery is spin avoidance.
I am gonna make this really simple for all of you that are pilots or want to become one..... A Go-Around because you messed up the approach is a little embarrassing but crashing your plane is the single biggest embarrassment you can ever face.
This is so counter intuitive to use the rudder for accelerating the turn, I can't understand how people are that unintuitive about flying... Even if I've never fly a real aircraft, my experience on simulator (DCS mainly) give me the habit to automatically use rudder coordinated with turns and only use it outside coordination if I need to move the nose slightly left or right, or when I want to goes into a spin in fact... And personally my first reflex if I did not wanted to go around will be to turn right to make a simple circle that will safely align me with the runway even if it need 3 quarter of a full turn rather than pushing for aligning when its clearly too tight... I think we should make pilot learning about extreme out of envelop dynamic, volunteer spin and other things like that by making them experiencing that on simulator, cause it feel like it give knowledge of things that most pilot never know, except once before a crash maybe sadly. I mean yes DCS is only a simulator and I can't pretend to know everything about aircrafts but with both A10C and P51 I often play putting myself on a spin and never I did crash cause of that, I in fact have more difficulty getting into those situation than getting out of them... And I also feel that teaching pilot how helicopter work (on simu) could also help cause on helicopter the controls are even more coupled and the rudder often is coupled easily to the turn like on airplanes and will almost only at hover or really slow speed being independent without causing an obvious awkward position.
+Demongornot I agree somewhat. If you're flying a traffic pattern, though, as this video suggests, you're not going to just want to break right in the middle of a left base-to-final or just base. It's bad practice especially if you aren't alone in the pattern. You're taking a regular base leg and throwing in a wrong-way turn, which in itself isn't necessarily a bad idea. Practicality says otherwise at a towered field. In the US, stalls and spins are both covered as part of the SPL/PPL curricula. Actual spin training is not mandated anymore, but nevertheless a very good idea. These small errors or lapses in judgement are what kill pilots. At my flight school, the 172s are all technically certified when operating under the Utility category. Most all PPL students will encounter a spin at least once in the air as part of their training. It's an imperative that recovery become second nature.
+Aviation Unlimited Don't worry I know that pushing on the other side is a bad habit and should only be done in a simulator or if we have a real urge/emergency but not just to earn time to avoid doing another full base. And well, as I have read on some comment spin recovery have been removed cause a lot of crash during spin recovery training have been done, that's why training pilot with a simulator first for those situation might be a good idea, plus in a simulator we can push even further where in real life it will be way too risky, but spin recovery itself is not a good idea without simulator training I think, there is several physic realistic aircraft simulator available that could be good for those trainings and it only need a computer and a joystick/hotas/yoke (probably better a yoke here) which will cost quickly less than life and crashed aircraft and could then lead to a way safer live spin recovery training and probably allow those training to be back in service !
Using rudder absolutely will accelerate the turn. In fact you can perform all turns without aileron, albeit less efficiently. But it also increases the bank angle. Better solution is to go around. Or if traffic permits do a 360 as you proposed to better align yourself. Or perform a coordinated turn and accept that you won't be on the extended center line as far out as you would prefer. But under no conditions use the rudder to accelerate the turn. Frank Davis, CFI
USA CFI's are allowed to be too chicken on stalls, spins and forced landings on take off. And due the are chickens they put down whoever is doing them right and not watered down spins. Cowards. CFI spins on a C172 can be watered down a lot. You need only a CFI with 2 years of mild maneuvering to take you to 5,000 feet and drop a wing for 2 turns, if ever.. and you get the spin endorsement. No need to show that on CFI test. BS Spin training is what kills most CFI's.
And that is the most dangerous reaction in the world. There is no video, so it is not true. Many many idiots react like that. There is no video, because you don't want to see a compilation of dead pilots and passengers in a wreck. There is no video, because you are not going to demonstrate a fatal spin from 300 feet. That's like crashing your bike into a concrete wall at 150 pmh, just to show you will not survive that. But this deadly situation is in every flightschool program and in every good book or publication on flight safety. So if you doubt the seriousness of this problem, you get me very angry. For that is the most stupid reaction ever. Do you understand that? If you are a pilot, you should send your licence back to the FAA, mentioning that you are a danger to yourself and others. Yes, you just made me that angry.
Filming an aircraft as it spins is some legitimate air-to-air photography.
I did stall spin entry and recovery training both in my civilian training and in my USAF pilot training, so I am not against the idea. On the other hand, as much as I am glad I got to do the spin training I am not at all sure it would make me any less likely to get myself killed in a low altitude stall spin. What is useful is to understand the conditions that cause a stall spin accident and train to avoid them.
I flew B-52s and watched in horror the video of the famous B-52 crash at Fairchild as a very experienced pilot destroyed a B-52 and killed it's crew in a scenario almost identical to what is described in the above video. He saw he was overshooting his turn, and was going to fly over the weapons storage area (not ok) so he pulled harder and lost control of the plane close to the ground. We didn't practise spins in the B-52, we didn't even practise stalls, only the approach to a stall (vibrations), but were keenly aware of the dangers of actually stalling, forget about spinning the plane, high up or near the ground.
So spin entries and recovery is fun, interesting, helpful to someone doing aerobatics, which I love, but spin prevention is much more useful in normal flying.
The most valuable lesson is...GO AROUND!
David Stewart
Wtf?
Darrin Nunyah that's the first thing that came to mind when he said *runway overshoot*
Hell my instructor call me. Go around
I was just about to say that you can allways go around no judgment
@Martina Skretowicz alr lemme find out
I would rather say: "Go Around is always mandatory, Landing is optional" this is the correct way of handling all approaches.
Diego Cueto for me safe approach is higher glideslope , no throttles
Totally agree
always in a Cirrus
@@haykodjan I agree with your steeper glide slope so you're not depending on your engine to reach the runway. But if you have an air cooled engine, you should have a little throttle in to so the engine doesn't cool off too much. Plus, it's more likely to stop running with the throttle closed.
Landing IS mandatory... Landing alive is optional.
Spin recovery is part of a glider pilot' training (at least in Europe), because going around in a glider is NOT an option ;-)
Duh, its a part of training in every kind of flight instruction. But there is no way you'll recover a spin on final.
Heck, it was part of my training to fly model aircraft.
Cause spins only happen on final
@@adhdrenalin4392 Dude, if you fly cleanly, you won't ever need to recover from a spin unless you're in aerobatics. When you've been trained however (which not always the case whatever you believe), you know how much hight is lost before recovery can happen. Then you also know that when turning final too low, if you turn flat while refusing the ground (which is what your reflexive brain shouts you to do) you're probably dead.
In a powered aircraft, the conscious brain should remain in control by going around.
So that was my point.
was doing spins today to practice but never had insight on how they could happen in the real world, this video covers that very well
A humble pilot does a go around. I've been in this situation.
I'm not even a pilot and this was explained so well I can totally understand it
I used to enjoy getting some altitude and practice some 3 and 4 turn spins, both directions and the old falling leaf maneuver. Should definitely be brought back!
spin stall training is a very important part of learning to fly, it saved my butt
And yet it’s not taught until CFI training the the US. Pretty crazy!
@@Parker-di7ef I asked for it. a pilot i know that flys 747s told me it will be the best thing for me too. and he was right
Only if you have enough recovery altitude. Most of these scenarios don't. So you're dangerously wrong in claiming it saved your life. Below 800-1000 you're dead. No matter how good you think you are.
@@Barabus-yx2cn correct
Upset Recovery training is definitely a necessary stage of pilot training for solving extreme situations. Anything can happen in the air. Cool video.
This is really cool. I don’t know planes or flying, but I’ve always been fascinated by the intelligence required to maneuver one. This video is awesome.
this one is especially against ones intuition or natural reaction
Sorry to burst your bubble, but in a long lifetime of flying, I've come across more dumb pilots than I care to admit.
I was told by a commercial pilot that he would not bank turn onto final more than 25°. He didn't mention the attack angle from memory.
That's why this video makes no sense. There is a reason there is a max bank angle when climbing and descending. If you follow that you won't risk stalling in the first place.
@@jasonMB999 bank angle is irrelevant because you can stall at 5 degrees of bank if you exceed the critical angle of attack. Limiting bank angle gives you a false sense of security.
Am I crazy to say that if Stall-Spin accidents on final are this common then perhaps mandatory stall-spin training should be reinstated for all licences? Why was it ever removed from PPL training? If people who take flight lessons don't like it, then flying isn't for them. Stall-spin training has proved to be a life saver so why this experiment of not requiring it has not been ended???
+Peter Pasieka It was removed (In America) because too many students and instructors were having accidents during training. Now spin recovery is taught on the ground only. There are some instructors and schools that will let you spin their planes, but they are far and few between because insurance is cheaper with the "no spins" placard.
+Peter Pasieka Would there be time to recover on short final only 800- 1000 feet up? Still it's a good idea: We had 20 hours in simulated IFR conditions, unusual attitude recovery and spin/spiral dive recovery as mandatory (in Canada in the early 90s)
The only aircraft at 1,000 ft on short final is the space shuttle.
Ok....long final. It's been over 20 years. I've probably forgotten everything! Still I remember the HASEL check. These manoeuvres require some altitude to complete.
You go over spins and recovery demonstrations ONLY, while doing your PPL in Canada but anywhere in the world the most important thing to teach is how to prevent it from happening, if your turning from base to final you're probably about 1000 feet the highest but more commonly you'd be lower most likely leaving not enough room for recovery
If you're turning base-final, you probably won't have enough altitude to recover, but its a good skill to have just in case
Super description of Preliminary Graveyard Spiral. I got caught inverted in a Mooney, but we were above 10,000 ft practicing stalls, and engine off.......got caught by a stiff updraft and we were in serious peril. I could reach the yoke, and pedals, because I was taller, with long arms.......flying left seat was a slightly built CFII......as we were getting our asses and Spines sucked back from the Instrument Panel.......I got control, and worked with him to right the Acft, and Agreed not to reveal our Danger.....he was such a good, and giving Pilot. This was a shakedown flight for a turbo Mooney, so he was the most valued, Safe Pilot, entrusted to fly , and bring it home checked off. I was Service/ Parts
guy just watching instruments, and worrying about Engine and Hydraulics.
Anyway, after this event, my CFII quit flying and became a pharmacist.......Don't EVER think you can't get into a roll, stall, or inverted when you're in the Pattern.
We weren't, in the Pattern, and the only thing that saved us, we were out in the practice area, at a high altitude for a Mooney. Would have been certain Death on Final
Puede hacerse sin problemas un overshoot,si el viraje es COORDINADO.Muy buen video,gracias
Agree that going around is always the safest option and have done so many times when I found myself off of the centerline. However, I do want to ask if it would be alright as long as the pilot does a COORDINATED steep turn with an acceptable airspeed?
It,s alright
I’ve overshot the turn to final before. Unless it’s a massive overshoot, I’ll just add throttle, do a quick banked & coordinated S-turn with ample wing loading to get on the centerline, and then go back to normal approach.
That,s ok.
Zero Forgiveness from physics of flight! You can die real quick. Very informative. Thanks for this excellent video.
You can memorize spin recovery procedures all you want, it's another thing altogether when you're asked to implement that memory when put into a spin in an airplane.
My best friend and me used to go out with an old 172 and take turns doing spins for fun.
Trained in Canada.
I think the explanation is great. The animation of how the plane enters the spin sucks, but the rest is great. I watched this clip becasue on a flight yesterday I had such a strong tailwind on base leg tat I overshot the centerline too. I tried to get back on it by steepening the bank and beeing careful to keep the nose down but at a certain bank I realized it doesn't feel good so I shallowed the bank and let the wind carry me beyond the centerline. With a 30 degree bank and the nose down I flew back to the centerline and aligned with the runway with a 30 degree right turn ... I would landed halfway down the (9000 ft) runway, but opted to go around because I was too fast aswell. This was in a Cirrus SR22.
Your go around decision was late but at least the correct decision
Every pilot should learn to fly aerobatics, this will help them alot, playing with spins and stalls
What a stupid comment.
Hard rudder stick back will always induce a spin (snap roll ), even with ailerons neutral, and is the first step into the Lomcovak maneuver, the controls are just reversed to complete it, very deadly at low altitudes.
There is an article in AOPA magizine, maybe Aug. 2018 issue, about why "pilots don't know how to turn". As far back as the 1940s in a famous book called "Stick and Rudder" the authur noted that "pilots simply do not know how to turn". Very many do no know to neutralize the rudder after the bank is achieved. Thus, when making a left turn from base to final they continue to skid around the turn with left rudder.
Should the airplane stall in this condition, it will roll over in the direction of the applied rudder. In other words, it will enter a spin if the stall is continued. Many pilots very close to the ground will forget their stall training and pull back on the control wheel while low to the ground. The result is a stallspin crash.
A while back ago, I read an article in AOPA or IFR mag, can't remember which, which stated that most stall spin accidents occur after the engine quits on takeoff. This seems more probable to me because the nose is already high, the plane is low to the ground and the pilot is surprised and doesn't react immediately. If a pilot overshoots base to final close to the runway and is inexperiences, it is probably better to just go around and try it again.
But if the plane is far out on a wide base and overshoots the final, do NOT skid the plane around to turn while near a low stall condition. If high enough, keep the turn coordinated and unload the Gs. That means to relax the load factor while turning. That also means, letting the nose fall and let the speed pick up a little while making a coordinated turn. There is nothing wrong with a 30 degree bank in the pattern if you keep the ball centered and you are not flying close to a stall. This is why I don't like to drag in the plane in low and slow.
The most valuable lesson is just pay attention going on final. Most general aviation crashes happen right before landing and after takeoff.
So avoid steep turns at low altitude. And especially at approach airspeed.
Is spin recovery really a reliable method when turning final at say 300-500’? Or is it all about not stalling or entering a spin in the first place?
Bingo. Proper training will prevent almost all stall spins. Inside rudder will change where the nose is pointing but does a really lousy job of changing the velocity vector- that's what the wings are for, ie, a coordinated turn. If you can't land without screwball maneuvers, go the BLEEP around. A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid the situation where his superior skill is needed to save his life. (adjust pronouns to suit.)
Always fly safely within the flight envelope of the aircraft... this envelope is smaller in the circuit. Stall, Spin & Spiral recovery training is done in Canada at 3500AGL minimum ... not only sounding the stall horn, but buffeting and going into a real stall... I believe in the USA they don't want you even sounding the stall horn, because you'll become complacent to that sound...in Canada we ride the stall horn practicing slow flight...Spins are done in a certified aircraft (Cessna) cut power, neutral ailerons, opposite rudder to spin rotation.... spirals, cut power, level aircraft and slowly ease out of the dive, when gaining altitude then go full power... aside from circuits, this training (stalls/spirals/spins) is the most important exercises you'll do as a pilot. (in my opinion)
Not only inside rudder will produce a spin, if you do a Panic Pull due overshooting final messup you will stall faster and spin faster too. I used to teach that kind of Panic Pull Stall Spin, even on Cherokees and Piper Tomahawks. I had to put with so many Pansy Pilots that could do only Mild Maneuvering.
What surprises me most, is that pilots simply don't know this. I've been a licensed glider pilot decades ago, and a spin low to the ground is one of the classic ways to cause your own funeral. Spin recovery training is a joy in gliders, and everybody learns it. No dangerous insurancy restrictions preventing pilots learning basic skills. And alternating steep turning is part of the exams, so you must learn to make coordinated turns, to control your airspeed all the time and watch around you. Pulling a little G is part of the job. For thermals those steep turns are not necessary, it's just good to know that you control the plane, in case you need such a very steep turn.
In other aviation video comments I mentioned this spinning risk. But the inexperienced pilots simply would not listen. And even experienced pilots (there was a Cherokee pilot among them) started scolding. Who are you to tell us bla bla bla, instead of reading what I warned them for.
Being oldschool I wonder how those arrogant guys are going to survive. The solutions are relatively simple, but you have to know the dangers very well, to solve the problem. Fear of keeping the nose low and fear of steep banking, that's it. Thank you, I hope many pilots read it and ask a proper flightschool for spin recovery training. Not all planes are friendly, better practice with an instructor, than crashing. You don't really want to use that emergency chute, don't you?
Do those RPL (or how it's called) pilots use emergency chutes? Those planes don't even have 5 straps seatbelts, I saw. Just the car belt system, sometimes. I don't understand that. Is that for those softie softie pilots? For aerobatics and heavy turbulence you want proper seatbelts. But okay, that's enough. Let's conclude I'm worried about safety, and some habbits and things amaze me. The how on earth effect. The answer is: spinning.
@@voornaam3191 100% on spot.. SA GA needs that military style training but NOOOOO!! How you want us to do hard practice?? NOOO!! Too many chicken pilots on USA GA stopping others from practicken and exercising.. Chumps with a big mouth all oveer
Cross control stalls need to be a part of training. During my training I had read something about cross control stall and asked my instructor about it while flying at altitude. He reduced power and speed then went full right aileron and full left rudder. The Tomahawk immediately did a snap 360 roll/spin. When you’re in a bank, the rudder acts more like an elevator. When the plane is in a bank or level,the rudder pitches the nose back and forth. If you’re in level flight that would be back and forth from 9 o’clock to 3 o’clock. If you’re in a 90 degree bank that would be up and down from 12 o’clock to 6 o’clock.
Any CFI that teaches spins on a Tomahawk is a real CFI. Tommy's fixes or kicks away the clods immediately. Hard airplanes make hard to knock down pilots..
5feetgoaround fullflapsC150 My CFI was a 12,000 hour former Air Force pilot. I had researched the Tomahawk before lessons began so I was well aware of the tendency for it to spin as the stall is entered. In my case, the left wing dropped. I picked it right back up with the rudder. Then recovered just like any other plane.
Not only should spin recovery training be mandatory, I'm also of the opinion that we need to re-think the "one size fits all" method of flying in the pattern. Fly a longer approach if you have the room, carry a little extra speed (energy), and bleed it off. Not a LOT more. Just a bit.
I dare say it was a very good explanation. I could hardly hear it over the totally unnecessary and distracting 'muzak'.
I'm not afraid of go arounds, I never let the yaw ball get out of the brackets unless I intend to... I'm comfortable with 90° bank if it's called for, like an emergency dodge. Then my only consideration is structural load limits vs. avoiding the threat.
Thank you for teaching sir 🙏
So don’t use yaw to steer only make corrections?
2:05. I find hitting the left brake like that has no effect on the airplane in flight.
If you haven’t got a stabilized approach or landing, then abort early. Don’t try to save it or save face. It’s a psychological problem.
I haven't flown in years, I was taught that if the approach did'nt look good, go around.
power down.. full right rudder .. most spins are left because of the engine pulling to the left.
no ailerons
Can anyone tell me why the standard approach is not a "straight in"?
For VFR (visual flight rules) a circuit pattern is established to give an orderly method of traffic control, much like driving one way around a parking lot.
No crashes no youtube man, thats why.
There are a couple reasons. First of all if there are many aircraft in pattern, it helps to create larger intervals between the planes, just by extending the downwind. Second of all, at least what I am taught is that while on base it's always good to check your landing area for any obstacles and other stuff so you are sure there's nothing to worry about, or if there is u would need to fly over it(I am in glider training, hence no go arounds) and maybe some other reasons that I am not aware of
My Boeing 747 is flat spinning what should I do
Seems like a dangerous place to practice spins?
I have been taught, turning onto final from base use only 15 aob to line up with the runway if an overshoot seems clear slower steepen to 30. and I see why.
What is aob?
@@Wookierabbit angle of bank
Nice “heads up” video. But, If a pilot induces a spin using too much rudder in an uncoordinated flight, at slow speed and pulling back the stick too hard he/she probably won’t know how to recover from it either.... of course recovering from a spin is elemental to flight training, but once I watched a video about how training about avoiding stall would be much more eficient and it compares to airline jets training. I flew from j3 to 727 and had many kinds of training in life, and I agree with that, train pilots to avoid stall situations, to know how much speed he must maintain as a minimun at each fase of flight sounds more eficient. Anyway, this is an awesome “heads up” video.
Very informative, thank u
As a person who’s done flight instruction with simulators only; i would’ve liked to hear the turn coordinator mentioned. My understanding is that rudder is needed to turn and this video is saying don’t use it. Kind of confusing with my level of knowledge.
To recover from a stall-turn (in german "vrille") you may only use the opposite rudder. No ailerons!
Some of the accidents on base to final might be misdiagnosed. Doing a slip which is also cross controls and the flaps being inboard where the primary lift is it's a case of trying a slip the fuselage of the aircraft blocks out airflow to the only lift that's where the flaps are inboard next to the fuselage. Do not practice spins or slips with flaps because that's a spin practice only for CFII's. It's no joke when two guys have to get against the windscreen to get the nose to go down like can happen with some spins after stopping the rotation. Even a nose down/dead spiral will black you out while hearing noises you never knew the plane could make. Long story short, don't do slips with flaps while slow because it is dangerous as heck when all or part of the lift is at the flaps section of wings.
I always do slips - they help loose energy... Always with extra speed - which is causing to lose some more.... Ending up with low and rather fast glide slope. At the designated point I am okey-ish, dumping the flaps and stick to the ground. However, this is not standard landing procedure, just a bad competition flying habit.
@@PovilKa I guess the type of airplane can make a huge difference. I've been a glider pilot, and the types I have flewn could spin quietly, and after recovery VNE never was a problem. Modern gliders don't have those huge airbrakes no more, so a dive after recovery is a risk, pull up firmly.
Thanks to the very low stall speed of gliders, forward slipping is the safest thing in the world. What happens is that the angle of attack changes, it's getting smaller, so you can never stall a slipping glider. That is, in normal landing configuration, flaps down. Flaps up and low speed is always a bad idea. And the gliders I have flown slipped the most effective with the nose very high.
To pilots of one engined planes, that is probably unbelievable. Slipping the safest thing in the world? No way! Spinning from 9,000 feet till 2,000 feet? Is that a Pitts Special? No, just a modern club glider. I guess this all has to do with low airspeeds, extreme low wing loads and low weight, keeping those planes flying, where powered planes with their smaller wings could stall and spin in the same conditions. Adding extra problems, like an aircooled engine that can cool down too fast, during a steep descent.
Yes, planes are not the same. Fly safe.
@@voornaam3191 I practice something called A Diving Slip..Slip with flaps at over VGL, Its very effective and dsager that slow speed slips..
It's so stupid that the average instructor teaches stall after stall recovery but not pin recovery. If you are going to be a pilot you better be comfortable recovering from spins. It may very well be your life.
The Last Rebel Show they teach it on the ground, but it is considered to be not worth the risk for private pilot training. Too many students were being killed by their instructors.
Then the USA CFI's are the ones no good for spins. Most USA CFI's are used to mild maneuvering only. IFR kind of maneuvering all Mild Maneuvering ONLY. Most USA CFi's are afraid of spins due like to be only "Mild Maneuvering CFI's". Pansy Pilots. The former Military excluded of course. But most USA CFI's are pansies I found. I was the Aerobatics and take off emergencies specialist at my airport. Pansie Pilots used to say "He is a tough CFI". Retired now. Do other hobbies instead of flying.
@@CFITOMAHAWK2 The Commercial Handbook states no maneuvers which push the air vehicle into this situation and why *anybody* would apply inside rudder just there makes me glad that I stay on the ground now
@@ChiDraconis-- Pansy Pilots are the ones that crash most via pilot error. And they cowards even make books and videos telling you not to practice any hard maneuver. That is like obese guys making videos criticizing people who exercise. DAm Pansy Pigs posing as CFI's are the root of so many pilot error tragedies in USA. They infiltrated the FAA and promote half training and lowering the standards too in the milenium. Now you dont even have to demo MCA slow flights and most hard maneuvers in USA. You can be a Mild Maneuvering Maggot and get all kinds of USA pilot licenses. Corrupted Clods all over.
@@CFITOMAHAWK2
Commercial Examiners Handbook clarifies we do not attempt edge of envelope when pushing paper; Such as the Certification of MAX-8 with HUge Engines hung on prior air-frame then saying it is the same aircraft
hi there wondering what kind of go pro mount you used on the left wing thanks
No more than 30 degrees bank with coordinated rudder using turn coordinator. If misaligned.....full power and go around.
The accident that happened with Yeti ATR 72 (9N-ANC) happens to be due to this exact reason.
Watching this video makes me realize how much I miss flying the Zling. Sure it was a SOB when flying a cross country but everything else demanded your attention and was an amazing aircraft to fly.
I second that. It's been a year or so since I flew Zlin . I've some hours on Z42 which is very similar to Z142. It's absolutely awesome airplane to fly. The view from it, the handling, the airplane itself .. awesome.
On engine failure it goes down like a brick but that's another story :)
0:29
FSX F12 view. :)
Go around or be in the ground
The most valuable lesson is...GO AROUND! I wish people would do that while driving when they missed their exit and not just cut me off which I drive a semi 80,000 lbs
Very informative!
Interesting.... one can describe this as a low level cross control stall ie: combining aileron with opposite rudder. Also thinking the reason for overshooting the centerline is very relevant in this situation especially given the many illusions caused by drift. Question: Would a left crosswind aggravate the angle of attack of the left wing while in a skidding turn onto final ?
Am I crazy or is it not that hard to get back aligned with centerline just with banking the aircraft and maintaining coordination? I do it all the time. It’s not typical that I roll out perfectly on centerline
Agree. Apparently their final is also very short.
I went through and became certified never actually encountering a real spin.
Now, I'm looking for a place that will teach aerobatics, for my own (and the those below me)'s sake.
I did spin recovery during my training and I am glad I did. If you have not experienced it you might not understand what was happening till it was too late. It's also a lot of fun!
Why don't you suffer blackout during this free fall ? Vertigo?
It is not a free fall, the aircraft has significant air resistance even during a spin so it is just a rapid descent. Pulling out of the dive during recovery is about +1g slightly unpleasant, but not enough to cause a blackout. Some people find the rotation upsetting and have thrown up - the guy before me did and the instructor had a bucket and mop out, so I knew what had happened!
3:23 wrong. Go arounds are mandatory. Landings are optional
If go arounds are mandatory, then landing is not an option.
This is one of my main topics! When stalled, all airplanes will spin (or even “snap”) away from the ball! This is why low altitude, “ground patterns” are so important! Pilots need be able to interpret what they see is happening near the ground when the aircraft being affected by wind. In this case, the “deadly downwind turn.” Moral: Keep @&#$ing ball in the middle. Keeping the ball centered will give the pilot lots of buffeting, prior to any spin, thus giving that pilot time to get his head back out of his ass, and fix the stall. Bill C.
I wish I saw these videos before flying my Remote Control plane, it entered a Stall spin just before landing and now I have to watit to save up money for a new plane. :(
Well it’s n only that your speed was a problem to
Scratch build with foam. $1 pet sheet. FliteTest is your friend.
Never use inside rudder to slip on base
The 3 basic rules in aviation are #1: speed #2:speed #3: SPEED regardless of weather your turning final or whatever your doing if we have the right speed we can go as hard as we want even turning final !
Amen
maybe "angle of attack" is more important...but they are related...
Can Conservative , absolutely although the angle of attack can be hard to evaluate in some situations.
@@canconservative8976 and what do u need the higher the AOA is??? ;)
@@maxhaines3794 Yes but SPEED is only relevant according to the direction of "THE RELATIVE WIND"..... the exact direction of the relative wind hitting the wing is your angle of attack... you could be going 500 kts but if the "relative wind" hitting the wing has exceeded the angle of attack then that speed MEANS NOTHING. I think you can't pinpoint the most important factor, but Angle of Attack is #1 and Speed (which is really just airflow over the wing) is #1.2!... example: you could have an indicated airspeed of 100kts and plenty of flow over the wing, but your ground speed can be 1kt.... think of an airplane as traveling inside the tube of a train.
Well explained thanks
so how can that be cured?
Which Aircraft?
Yeti Airlines Crash had similar scenario. Based on ground footage.
Final report is yet to come.
Lot of these start with engine failure on take off pilot attempts turn back to the airport they no longer have engine helping to produce lift they might have a bad habit of using rudder to correct overshoot base to final. They try the same thing again with the turn back and stall spin.
0:29 you took a screenshot of an airport from FSX
I tried to get my SUV to flat spin... all I got was a ticket
Best option if you r overshooting is to give a deliberate stall turns in which u can literally spin on a dime & lose zero altitude
You forgot your tag.
It’s also a pretty cool way to lose altitude quickly 😂
It’s happened to me in MS Flight sim I have no idea what to do then it crashed
It was terrifying
Always Go Around AGA
This is excellent.
Thomas Steven Roth, MBA, MD
this is why i always come in with a little extra speed.
Most likely there will be times when that extra speed will cause problems.
I find this curious. I am in no way a trained pilot, I play flight sims and largely just picked up how to fly in a simulator by playing simulators. I don't claim to know what it's actually like to fly a plane and I have no formal training. But I found myself in a situation like this the other day. I was in FSX and was coming in a bit fast on base at ronaldsway airport. In an attempt to shed some speed before turning on to final (as I wouldn't slow down fast enough descending on final) I left turning a bit late and found myself off the centerline and admittedly a bit high. It seemed natural to me that this was a missed approach so I scrapped it and went around. Now I really botched that approach but even if it was more in the margins, I don't see myself trying to use the rudder at low speed to try and "swing the nose around", if I couldn't get the plane reasonably in line and the approach under control in good time using normal sorts ofprocedures then I'd rather go around. It's weird to me that so many trained GA pilots kill themselves trying this sort of maneuver rather than take a few minutes to fly around the pattern once more.
Arrogance afer a sloppy approach makes you not go around but tighten the turn mmore tosave face
Many pilot are still under the misconception that the rudder turns the aircraft. Roll is a byproduct of yaw. Rudder induces or reduces yaw. The turn comes from the horizontal component of lift in a banked attitude. Rudder is there to counter the adverse yaw and nothing else. If more pilots took the time to learn the connection between the various attitudes and movements and the processes in which a stall spin can occur there would be less occurrences. Unfortunately until the training changes the misconception will continue.
Center rudder, move stick to center, nose down somewhat is it is too high and add power.
Great video, music way too loud.
first time war thunder sim pilots : *write that down, WRITE THAT DOWN!!*
The Zlin 242L is a wonderful aircraft. I would love to own or go partners on one. Anyone game?
Phil Cogan If you want a Zlin aircraft, you would have to go to Czech republic.
They really need to bring spin recovery training back to the ppl curriculum. Recognizing it, preventing it, knowing how to get out of it. Given the number of base-turn spins we see, somebody tell me how real spin-recovery training (not just a paper drill) won't save lives.
Because most people can’t possibly recover from a low-altitude spin. I’ve done lots of spins but if I spin during a departure stall or a turn to final, I’m done.
I agree with you. My thinking is, if an instructor doesn't get his student confident with his ability to recover from a spin, then he might be afraid to practice stalls, because they might get away from him.
It doesn’t matter how good you are at recovering from a spin if you enter a spin turning onto base - you don’t have enough altitude to recover. What is more important than spin recovery is spin avoidance.
Just go around and line yourself up with the runway.
I am gonna make this really simple for all of you that are pilots or want to become one.....
A Go-Around because you messed up the approach is a little embarrassing but crashing your plane is the single biggest embarrassment you can ever face.
This is so counter intuitive to use the rudder for accelerating the turn, I can't understand how people are that unintuitive about flying...
Even if I've never fly a real aircraft, my experience on simulator (DCS mainly) give me the habit to automatically use rudder coordinated with turns and only use it outside coordination if I need to move the nose slightly left or right, or when I want to goes into a spin in fact...
And personally my first reflex if I did not wanted to go around will be to turn right to make a simple circle that will safely align me with the runway even if it need 3 quarter of a full turn rather than pushing for aligning when its clearly too tight...
I think we should make pilot learning about extreme out of envelop dynamic, volunteer spin and other things like that by making them experiencing that on simulator, cause it feel like it give knowledge of things that most pilot never know, except once before a crash maybe sadly.
I mean yes DCS is only a simulator and I can't pretend to know everything about aircrafts but with both A10C and P51 I often play putting myself on a spin and never I did crash cause of that, I in fact have more difficulty getting into those situation than getting out of them...
And I also feel that teaching pilot how helicopter work (on simu) could also help cause on helicopter the controls are even more coupled and the rudder often is coupled easily to the turn like on airplanes and will almost only at hover or really slow speed being independent without causing an obvious awkward position.
+Demongornot I agree somewhat. If you're flying a traffic pattern, though, as this video suggests, you're not going to just want to break right in the middle of a left base-to-final or just base. It's bad practice especially if you aren't alone in the pattern. You're taking a regular base leg and throwing in a wrong-way turn, which in itself isn't necessarily a bad idea. Practicality says otherwise at a towered field.
In the US, stalls and spins are both covered as part of the SPL/PPL curricula. Actual spin training is not mandated anymore, but nevertheless a very good idea. These small errors or lapses in judgement are what kill pilots. At my flight school, the 172s are all technically certified when operating under the Utility category. Most all PPL students will encounter a spin at least once in the air as part of their training. It's an imperative that recovery become second nature.
+Aviation Unlimited
Don't worry I know that pushing on the other side is a bad habit and should only be done in a simulator or if we have a real urge/emergency but not just to earn time to avoid doing another full base.
And well, as I have read on some comment spin recovery have been removed cause a lot of crash during spin recovery training have been done, that's why training pilot with a simulator first for those situation might be a good idea, plus in a simulator we can push even further where in real life it will be way too risky, but spin recovery itself is not a good idea without simulator training I think, there is several physic realistic aircraft simulator available that could be good for those trainings and it only need a computer and a joystick/hotas/yoke (probably better a yoke here) which will cost quickly less than life and crashed aircraft and could then lead to a way safer live spin recovery training and probably allow those training to be back in service !
That's because you haven't flown in a real airplane
I wish more details on that then, please !
Using rudder absolutely will accelerate the turn. In fact you can perform all turns without aileron, albeit less efficiently. But it also increases the bank angle. Better solution is to go around. Or if traffic permits do a 360 as you proposed to better align yourself. Or perform a coordinated turn and accept that you won't be on the extended center line as far out as you would prefer. But under no conditions use the rudder to accelerate the turn.
Frank Davis, CFI
Great movie content wise !! but the music being almost as loud as the voice over is quite annoying :-///
Too many CFI don't know how to teach it! That's the name of that tune!
USA CFI's are allowed to be too chicken on stalls, spins and forced landings on take off. And due the are chickens they put down whoever is doing them right and not watered down spins. Cowards. CFI spins on a C172 can be watered down a lot. You need only a CFI with 2 years of mild maneuvering to take you to 5,000 feet and drop a wing for 2 turns, if ever.. and you get the spin endorsement. No need to show that on CFI test. BS Spin training is what kills most CFI's.
Would love to see a full video with a tail camera view like was in the very end of this video.
That looked quiet scary...i can see why this type of training is set on simulators rather than real life.
You gotta do spinning in real life 😂🤦♂️
only for commercial ariliners its a simulator training...
if you were about to spin open your door and jump like GTA then do parachute cheat.
If it's so common then wbere is the video
And that is the most dangerous reaction in the world. There is no video, so it is not true. Many many idiots react like that.
There is no video, because you don't want to see a compilation of dead pilots and passengers in a wreck.
There is no video, because you are not going to demonstrate a fatal spin from 300 feet. That's like crashing your bike into a concrete wall at 150 pmh, just to show you will not survive that.
But this deadly situation is in every flightschool program and in every good book or publication on flight safety.
So if you doubt the seriousness of this problem, you get me very angry. For that is the most stupid reaction ever. Do you understand that? If you are a pilot, you should send your licence back to the FAA, mentioning that you are a danger to yourself and others. Yes, you just made me that angry.
I would say this type of accident rare, more likely mishandled go-around's a bigger killer.
Good outside view here left landing gear and wing destroyed. @ ..
You can always go around
3:04 I'd be more concerned about those shorts.
Overshot base to final? OK- go downwid and re-enter pattern. You'll lose about 5 minutes but won't risk your life.