I swapped a vertical to horizontal splash lube briggs back in 2010. I had bought a Cub Cadet 582 with a broken rod and used a very late, (I'm guessing around a 2002) vertical twin from a MTD lawn tractor. The MTD had very little use and was abandoned at the lawnmower shop I worked at sometime around 2005. I ended up selling the Cub to a guy I worked for at the time and he used it for about 6 years to cut his grass. Flash forward to 2021 and I ended up buying the Cub back. I know this is a long story, but I have been using the Cub up until this year when I started having serious blowby issues with one cylinder. Turns out the RH breather valve facing the flywheel came apart, (ie. the bakelite flapper broke). When I removed the breather the lifter valve spring area was HALF-FULL of oil! Turns out there was no way for the oil to return back down into the crankcase! There were two holes, but would only work in the vertical position not horizontal. I overlooked this when I assembled the engine. I have taken the engine apart and drilled two holes (one in each area) for the oil to go down. I hope to get the engine back together sometime next week. I was also getting a lot of smoke on startup, I hope this fixes the issue.
Very informative video sir! Thank you. I'm constantly searching for pressure lubed twins. So far, i've only managed to snag one, a 422777. It's nice to know a little more about them now. Thank you much.
How do I know if I have a dual purpose block? And my Koler vertical that I’m trying to convert to horizontal only has one vertical oil pan and the filter stays on the engine and the case splits right side and left side. I don’t know maybe it’s how all of them are but would appreciate any feedback thanks.
The blocks you speak of that were dual purpose (plastic plug in the horizontal dipstick hole) were from about '91 to '94. The cooling shroud on those were black. When they went to the red ones from the mid 90's and later the hole is just closed off like the one in the video.
Hello I’m trying to figure out if I have a dual purpose block. This plastic plug for the dipstick. Mine I think if I’m looking at it correctly it looks like a allen type plug? Is that possible? Just curious if you know or have gained any more knowledge about the subject? If not please don’t worry about it you were the first person to mention the dual purpose blocks. Either way Thank you.
Bought a couple of these a few years ago that were blown up for 20 bucks for both, the blocks survived and the cylinders dont look happy but they're both iron bore so ive thought about trying to hone them out and rebuild them and maybe convert one or both to horizontal for a crazy project idea but im not sure just yet, still trying to study em more and try to find more info to make sure they can work.
Couldn't resist to watch. Interesting detailing, I appreciate that sincerely. Makes me want to start disassembling and 3D scanning parts somehow, either at the local Fab Lab or trying some open source photogrammetry.
Makes me want to look into more what I got since I just jumped on when I had the chance and am not for sure. Another great reason to get my part and material stock pallet rack up and start organizing more. Thanks for sharing the two design differences... I've not seen on any other YT video.
I feel like a well supported peerless 700....I'm talking needle bearing swapped, 4 shift forks, fully girdled, with an input and output support bearing to a good chain drive live axle might just be a good route to go if you have a vertical shaft one of these... i do think that setup could turn some big tires... Idk that's what I'm gonna do with my oppy anyway.. I have 22" ATV tires for the rear I plan on taking advantage of the rear suspension possibility too... Lol honestly though if I had a wheel horse rear end and I really wanted to use an oppy on it I'd probably use a ragb but I can get my hands on that kind of stuff basically free and people typically want $ for any old tractor parts weather or not they're in good shape especially anything horizontal shaft...
I think I'll add a dry sump pump and remote filter to my horizontal conversion if I can find the correct crank and cam there is a long stroke model 46 local was thinking about buying😉
Never heard of a long stroke 46 incher, but theres a big bore block thats getting 46CI with a 42CI crank. Stab a 46CI crank in that baby and youre gonna have an animal!
@@captain_315 I have lot of the parts including billet rods, billet flywheel but need to order pistons though I found a big bore model 46 and a long stroke model 46 I have had the long stroke model 46 dip lube crank machined to same dimensions as a horizontal shaft. I'm thinking about adding pressure lube with a drysump pump and remote filter going to be a while as I get part together. I think I can modify the flywheel side bushings for oil feed as the pto side has a bearing not sure how I'll do it yet need to watch ebay for a horizontal pressure lube sump
@@willyck948 theres not much 'meat' to do a lot with those manifolds, I saw a decent loss in flow with one even fully ported, but nowhere near as bad as a factory vertical manifold. I think if you have the ability you will see big gains building your own. Bring the entrance into the port from the head side and loop it around- saw big gains here too versus stock entry.
I did not bother with this as 99% of our riding requires bottom end and midrange power vs top end. Mine definitely 'lays down' about 5000-5500, likely due to the single carb and factory intake.
I'm working on one right now. I have the sump with screen Ive drilled a hole up to the screw hole that will feed front cover lower crank front and can above however my cam doesn't have a hole tru it captin! So it's either I drill all the way thru cam or send a feed up and over I'm not sure
Oh yeah, you definitely need SOME way to get oil to the other side, thats what feeds the other main bearing and rod. Should be able to drill the cam pretty easily, but it would need to be done on a lathe. Dont see why an external oil line to the other side wouldnt work just fine either.
As long as any passages leading from the pan to the pump are sealed up good, there shouldnt ever be an issue. Many automotive engines have the pump located above the oil level.
I've been running my vertical to horizontal swapped engine for almost a year now with no issue. Thanks for the info!
I swapped a vertical to horizontal splash lube briggs back in 2010. I had bought a Cub Cadet 582 with a broken rod and used a very late, (I'm guessing around a 2002) vertical twin from a MTD lawn tractor. The MTD had very little use and was abandoned at the lawnmower shop I worked at sometime around 2005. I ended up selling the Cub to a guy I worked for at the time and he used it for about 6 years to cut his grass. Flash forward to 2021 and I ended up buying the Cub back. I know this is a long story, but I have been using the Cub up until this year when I started having serious blowby issues with one cylinder. Turns out the RH breather valve facing the flywheel came apart, (ie. the bakelite flapper broke). When I removed the breather the lifter valve spring area was HALF-FULL of oil! Turns out there was no way for the oil to return back down into the crankcase! There were two holes, but would only work in the vertical position not horizontal. I overlooked this when I assembled the engine. I have taken the engine apart and drilled two holes (one in each area) for the oil to go down. I hope to get the engine back together sometime next week. I was also getting a lot of smoke on startup, I hope this fixes the issue.
Yes sir that will definitely do it! Good catch!
Very informative video sir! Thank you. I'm constantly searching for pressure lubed twins. So far, i've only managed to snag one, a 422777. It's nice to know a little more about them now. Thank you much.
Theyre like trying to find a needle in a haystack arent they?
How do I know if I have a dual purpose block? And my Koler vertical that I’m trying to convert to horizontal only has one vertical oil pan and the filter stays on the engine and the case splits right side and left side. I don’t know maybe it’s how all of them are but would appreciate any feedback thanks.
Pretty cool. Someday I will be attempting to put one of these engines in a Cub Cadet 125.
The blocks you speak of that were dual purpose (plastic plug in the horizontal dipstick hole) were from about '91 to '94. The cooling shroud on those were black. When they went to the red ones from the mid 90's and later the hole is just closed off like the one in the video.
Hello I’m trying to figure out if I have a dual purpose block. This plastic plug for the dipstick. Mine I think if I’m looking at it correctly it looks like a allen type plug? Is that possible? Just curious if you know or have gained any more knowledge about the subject? If not please don’t worry about it you were the first person to mention the dual purpose blocks. Either way Thank you.
@@dalylarose2516 If there's a plastic plug there of any type, the hole will be underneath. It should be threaded.
Bought a couple of these a few years ago that were blown up for 20 bucks for both, the blocks survived and the cylinders dont look happy but they're both iron bore so ive thought about trying to hone them out and rebuild them and maybe convert one or both to horizontal for a crazy project idea but im not sure just yet, still trying to study em more and try to find more info to make sure they can work.
hope this video helps a bit!
Couldn't resist to watch. Interesting detailing, I appreciate that sincerely. Makes me want to start disassembling and 3D scanning parts somehow, either at the local Fab Lab or trying some open source photogrammetry.
Makes me want to look into more what I got since I just jumped on when I had the chance and am not for sure. Another great reason to get my part and material stock pallet rack up and start organizing more. Thanks for sharing the two design differences... I've not seen on any other YT video.
@@jafinch78 awesome!
I have the hens teeth Im debating on what to do with it
Beautiful wheel horses
thanks!
thanks im interested because i have several vertical opposed cyl briggs engines and will try to do a change one at least one
I feel like a well supported peerless 700....I'm talking needle bearing swapped, 4 shift forks, fully girdled, with an input and output support bearing to a good chain drive live axle might just be a good route to go if you have a vertical shaft one of these... i do think that setup could turn some big tires... Idk that's what I'm gonna do with my oppy anyway.. I have 22" ATV tires for the rear I plan on taking advantage of the rear suspension possibility too... Lol honestly though if I had a wheel horse rear end and I really wanted to use an oppy on it I'd probably use a ragb but I can get my hands on that kind of stuff basically free and people typically want $ for any old tractor parts weather or not they're in good shape especially anything horizontal shaft...
great video man
thanks!
Nice review. Love the info.
If I find a pressure lube model 46 crank I'd just add it to my horizontal dip lube block and add dry sump with lines feeding the crank🤔
I think I'll add a dry sump pump and remote filter to my horizontal conversion if I can find the correct crank and cam there is a long stroke model 46 local was thinking about buying😉
Never heard of a long stroke 46 incher, but theres a big bore block thats getting 46CI with a 42CI crank. Stab a 46CI crank in that baby and youre gonna have an animal!
@@captain_315 I have lot of the parts including billet rods, billet flywheel but need to order pistons though
I found a big bore model 46 and a long stroke model 46
I have had the long stroke model 46 dip lube crank machined to same dimensions as a horizontal shaft.
I'm thinking about adding pressure lube with a drysump pump and remote filter going to be a while as I get part together.
I think I can modify the flywheel side bushings for oil feed as the pto side has a bearing not sure how I'll do it yet need to watch ebay for a horizontal pressure lube sump
@@captain_315 I also bought the split aluminum intake manifold for horizontal so I can port it out then silicone it back together
@@willyck948 theres not much 'meat' to do a lot with those manifolds, I saw a decent loss in flow with one even fully ported, but nowhere near as bad as a factory vertical manifold. I think if you have the ability you will see big gains building your own. Bring the entrance into the port from the head side and loop it around- saw big gains here too versus stock entry.
I did not bother with this as 99% of our riding requires bottom end and midrange power vs top end. Mine definitely 'lays down' about 5000-5500, likely due to the single carb and factory intake.
I'm working on one right now. I have the sump with screen Ive drilled a hole up to the screw hole that will feed front cover lower crank front and can above however my cam doesn't have a hole tru it captin! So it's either I drill all the way thru cam or send a feed up and over I'm not sure
Oh yeah, you definitely need SOME way to get oil to the other side, thats what feeds the other main bearing and rod. Should be able to drill the cam pretty easily, but it would need to be done on a lathe. Dont see why an external oil line to the other side wouldnt work just fine either.
Just picked up an 18hp pressure, horizontal motor for 150 bucks. Going in my wheelhorse c161 automatic
thats like a needle in a hay stack. Good score!
What is the part number for the horizontal shaft oil pan and cover plate?
Sorry, I did not write the numbers down before I put it together. They are very hard to find.
Is that oil sump for horizontal shaft for sale?
No, sorry
Nice shirt 😎
Yeah buddy!
Any write ups on this?
as far as?
I am totaly confused. Should have covered one type at a time.
So wait this whole time i coulf have made a vertical into a horizontal
absolutely
That motor is way too big to fit on my bicycle.
hahahaaaa
Great video,but it seems to me if you put the oil pump higher than the oil level you would loose your prime.
As long as any passages leading from the pan to the pump are sealed up good, there shouldnt ever be an issue. Many automotive engines have the pump located above the oil level.
Had to zoom in a bit still… your ugly mug was out of the way but that beautiful beard …. Way to memorizing lol😅
hahahaaaa
Just talking and wasted time
My apologies. 18 minutes wasted that you could've spent cleaning your mommys basement.
Beautiful wheel horses
thanks!