@@andrewcomerford9411 although Pentax is good - I am shooting with Pentax cameras for years - Sigma and Tamron stopped manufacturing lenses for it. For many years there is no new high-end APS-C model (KP is mid-range). Problems with slow AF are still here, too.
1. Don't use data sources when you don't understand how they're generated. 1a. You can have 1000 entires of the same product on the Amazon list, in different packaging. 2. Don't confuse volume with profit. 3. Make sure your data source is based on the target demographic (high margin products in photography is not purchased on Amazon).
I would add that a listing without quantities is worse than useless. It gives false information. Number 3 on the list could be almost at the same quantity as number 1. Furthermore Paretto law suggest that 20 percent of the items should generate 80% of the sales.
Although I own a Nikon DSLR with 4 lens the camera I carry with me is my Sony RX100IV. It is small, practical, takes reasonable pictures and most importantly is in my hand!
It's also the case the DVD-Audio vs. SACD simply split the market, preventing either format from gaining much ground. But it's relevant to think of "high end audio" vs MP3 as being akin to "real cameras" versus smartphones. The set of people who had home stereo systems capable of exploting full CD quality is fairly small... meanwhile, the MP3 travelled with you everywhere and offered the convience of your whole collection on one small device. DSLR or mirrorless, you get far superior quality in a camera over a phone, if you really learn photography: shooting and editing. The phone, like MP3, is "good enough" for average non-photographers. And they increasingly employ advanced photo techniques like various kinds of photo stacking, all AI controlled. The upshot of all this is that a novice with a modern smartphone, moving to an entry-level DSLR or mirrorless, is going to have trouble getting shots that match what they got on the phone. There's a learning curve, and they're unprepared. In the past, you might have moved from a snapshot camera to a compact rangefinder or something before your SLR, and each upgrade immediately delivered better images. Not so much anymore.
I think the Tony's right in everything he said I have the d700 d500 and the d850 I will never replace them for a mirrorless camera I'm very happy with them the great cameras great colors great image what else can I say if ain't broke don't fix it thank you Tony for your Insight
Just as an analogy, think sports car.. I have driven the E-Type Jag and a modern Lamborgini.. The Lambo is so much more refined.. You can’t smell the oil. The ride is quiet and you can here your passenger speak. The ride doesn’t shake your teeth loose at high speed.. Now look at the definition of the true sports car.. Good looks and fast. You can smell the oil and your teeth get shaken loose at high speed and you would have to take your eyes off the road to lipread what your passenger was saying.. Those were the days! My DSLR is more like an E-Type!
@@paulsimmonds2030 Sure....but the exhilarating induction roar from those SU carbs, isn't that analogous with the mirror moving out of the way in your DSLR? PS:- (Just pulling your leg).
You're missing some vitally important common sense here. In short: speculation. Mirrorless camera owners have a much greater appetite for new lenses compared to DSLR owners who have an existing range of lenses and/or know that they'll upgrade to mirrorless in near future and therefore hold off buying DSLR lenses. Also, although by current numbers alone it makes no sense for manufacturers to invest in mirrorless lenses/accessories, in the long-run it makes absolute sense as a lot of consumers will hold off changing to mirrorless until there's a larger infrastructure in place. Yes there are mounts for EOS lenses, etc. but when changing formats I (and most) want a range of mirrorless lenses to enable them to go all-in.
Agreed. You can also add in exponential growth of Mirrorless with a decrease in the number of new DSLRs being produced and an increase in new Mirrorless models (from all manufacturers) that covers more/all of the market. The fact that virtually all DSLR lenses can be used on Mirrorless will compound the move to ML.
I think you're right but not just because it's 'mirrorless'. New mounts demand new lenses. Old mounts have many lenses to choose from in the secondary market, including third party and used. Also most owners of DSLRs don't go past their kit lens, especially low cost kits (APSC DSLRs especially), which really diminishes the significance of the installed base. This would likely apply to mirrorless too, but most current mirrorless sales are chasing full-frame and high-end users, which tend to buy multiple primes and can afford more lenses too.
Tony & Chelsea Northrup There are more DSLR owners so of course the lenses are selling more atm. You don't need to spend time analysing Amazon statistics to assume that. I was talking about DSLR Vs Mirrorless owners 1-1 (not all-all which is pointless atm as the ratio will swing dramatically since we're in a crossover stage). Not everyone jumps ship immediately after new tech goes on sale; rather they re-evaluate their tech when their natural upgrade cycle comes around - for many/most this is still years away. There were more horses on the road than cars until around 1908 - more than 20 years after the first car went on sale but selling/buying fuel wasn't dumb in 1890. Likewise, cart spares carried on selling well for my years to come. It's not a case of all or nothing. My point is that any sales numbers you cite at the relative birth of new tech aren't indicative of the numbers of tomorrow. Mirrorless sales will rise exponentially rather than, as you seem to be suggesting, linearly. Happy to let time be the teller, though.
@@TonyAndChelsea If however you spend any amount of time on forums I think you can see that this is because the majority of mirrorless users are enthusiasts that will adapt lenses to their cameras. For example their existing Canon lenses, m-mount lenses or the now plethora (over 150+ at last count for Sony from a wide variety of manufacturers and inc. Cine lenses, full list on Brian Smith's site) of E mount lenses. Therefore many different lenses but likely sales spread around them so that individual lenses likely don't figure on best seller lists. There's a reason Sony (for example) are now the world's #2 ICL camera seller, having just overtaking Nikon, and have been the #1 seller of Full Frame cameras for quite some time. Naturally they can't have obtained that position without selling an awful lot of lenses. I would add that personally I hear of very few of those users on forums buying from Amazon. This may be a smaller market than your average non-enthusiast, one DSLR/one or two zooms, buyer on Amazon but they buy many many more lenses.
Thought it would be interesting to see how things have changed in the past few months, so here's an update as of Nov 5: the Canon T6 and T7 along with Nikon 3000 and 5000 series are still the top sellers, but mirrorless models appear to have moved up.... #11 Sony A6000 #54 Sony A7R iii #57 Canon EOS M50 #61 Nikon Z50 #66 Sony A6500 The vast majority of the top 100 are entry DSLR kits (with tripods, bags, SD, etc. included) between $300 and $600, along with a few high end Nikon and Canon bodies
@@mainmain5303 I have both. The XT3 beats the D500 in everything except lens selection and build/weather sealing. Well, I also think the XT3 is too small in the hand, I much prefer the feel of the D500. I'm going to get the XT3 battery grip and see it that helps.
If Tony is correct, it creates an interesting business strategy scenario for Canon and Nikon. But, my guess is that most of the people who buy the Canon T6 or T7 or whatever never buy an additional lens beyond the kit lens. And, those who do buy an additional lens usually buy a low cost, low margin nifty-fifty or something. So, the vast bulk of their use base isn't really the potential cash cow that Tony assumes. I have a Fuji XT-3 and I've bought three lenses for it in the last 3 months. I also have a Canon DSLR that takes beautiful photos and is four years-old. There's no way I'm buying a lens for the Canon even though it is great camera -- it seems like putting money in a time machine and sending it to the past. The one thing that seems clear to me (and I wish it wasn't) is that the Sony A7III is selling great. I'll take it further. The A7III is a break-out, industry-changing, decent camera that came at just the right moment to destroy the dominance of Canon and Nikon. A7III customers will be buying additional lenses for that device. That's just the perfect volume + likely to buy further into the ecosystem price point right now and that hurts so much given what Canon and Nikon had riding on their new mounts. I'm still using Fuji, though. Just love taking photos with it.
Maybe your recent lens purchases, three in three months, is more due to your transitioning to the new format. I've never been able to move past the dslr i bought 13 years ago, except a nifty-fifty, lol! I'd love to upgrade. That ol' d70...yup...still goes out with me most mornings. But I'm not trying to make money with it.
As others have said, including you guys, include camera stores like B&H and Adorama. I don't think most people who would buy a Panasonic S1, Nikon Z series or Canon R series would be jumping to Amazon to buy their cameras. Most Rebel type buyers get a kit with a couple of lenses that cover most of the shooting range. Why would they consider buying better lens? They usually don't.
Smartphone sales have declined 5 quarters in a row, so smartphones are also taking a hit. We've pretty much plateaued technology-wise for cameras and smartphones, and many people are finding their current cameras and smartphones are good enough for a while. There is not much incentive for many consumers to upgrade their equipment.
Smartphone cameras today take good pictures and are great for most casual pictures and they are handy, but they can't yet replace a DSLR, DSLM with good high quality interchangeable lenses or even a good P&S. There will always be a market for good cameras and lenses.
@@MrAyybee2cold I definitely don't understand why I should spend thousands of dollars on camera and lens when my smartphone can take good enough photos (it's better than my 15-year-old DSLR in most situations). No one said that the smartphone can take better photos, but if you are not a professional or have a lot of money, in my opinion the smartphone is a better option for most people (and it can do more than just take photos).
K. C. Absolutely, the smart phone is enough phone for the average person that wants what used to be called that “Kodak Moment”. The candid shots that uses to cost for developing and printing are basically free on a phone. There was a translation period when people still printed on printers, now with most people just snapping candid shots for social media, the smart phone is good enough. For the professional, a better dedicated camera body with lenses are important. I predict that one day, there will only be a few camera options, a smart phone and a higher end camera with nothing in between.
At the end of the day, if a DSLR has great dynamic range, quality focusing system, and so on, I see no problem with DSLRs. If the end results are what you need, it should not matter if it is mirrorless or a DLSR in my opinion.
If you can get sales numbers from B&H and other retailers you mentioned, please share them with the world, make a TH-cam video. I personally think the sales numbers Tony pulled from amazon are both relevant and the only set of numbers you can get from public domain that have any significance.
Hao Zheng I was just explaining my own experience, but I think you could look at best sellers on B&H by categories, it could be a small representation.
@@officialMainspring I still have my Denon too but it didn't play the HiDef 5.1 version of Amused To Death so I had to spend $500 so I could listen to that disc. Totally worth it.
Declaring DSLR cameras dead is a good thing because with camera manufacturers now shifting to mirrorless, fullframe DSLRs and APSC can finally be affordable. I see this as good news for beginners and professionals.
Tool Craze Ok? First off, anecdotes are anecdotes. Similarly, I could tell you the story of how horrible the stills on a gh5 came out during my last concert shoot. That doesn’t tell you anything. Second, nowhere did I say it doesn’t take good photos, only that for the price, there are far better systems out there.
While all of that is, no doubt, very true, I just bought a Nikon Z 6 last month as a birthday present to myself. It's the most fun camera I've ever owned!
The differences between mirrorless and DSLR are not strong enough for most people to make the switch. Image quality between a DSLR and mirrorless, is essentionaly the same. There are a couple of perceived advantages that mirrorless have over DSLR (OVF, fps and autofocus), but not compelling enouigh advantages for most confidently skillfull DSLR users invested in glass to switch. I see mirrorless cameras peaking soon on improving on the advantages that they have now, which still won't be enough to convince invested DSLR users to switch,... Besides improvements in what all cameras already do: The real question is what "New" things are mirrorless cameras going to do in the future? That will convince people to completely leave their DSLR behind...
Other than autofocus, mirrorless doesn't do anything I can't already accomplish with a DSLR. Being able to use all my DSLR Canon glass on a mirrorless body makes it worth a try, which is why I bought a Canon EOS R.
Xio Kassay the a7 series has terrible autofocus in low light and sports. This is why all sports are being shot on DLSRs. If mirrorless was better, sports shooters would use them, but they don't.
@@JaredRibic Autofocus is the number one requirement, for years I have moaned about DSLR focus inconsistency, using my Sony its almost like cheating, I just laugh to myself as I do not get any misfocus images ( biggest issue is trying to sell my Nikon gear )
I shot the fuji xt2, the sony a7rii and the OMD EM1 mark ii and I always came back to my 5d mark iv. Just the ease of use and reliability of canon is just awesome!
I firmly believe the DSLR are slowly being walked down. Trust recognition and tech. Better glass really makes companies build a better technology platform. And yes, Canon and Nikon will focus more on mirrorless to catch up. again, TRUST is the key. as soon as Pro photographers start trusting mirrorless bodies...DSLR's will become special. It's TECHNOLOGY.
It took 3rd gen smartphones @2011 and the consumer walked away and accelerating. Sony/Fuji are well into Gen3 ML so canikon may hang around with dslr but a solid Gen4 from Sony/Fuji in 2020 will force very rapid conversion to ML.
Im in a similar boat. I currently have a d5300 with 4 f mount lenses. To go mirrorless ,with the cost of new lenses is out of bounds financially. So what do i do? I upgrade,yes,but to an f mount Nikon. The camera companies that not all customers can afford to spends several thousands at upgrade time. Heres looking forward to my d850 next summer.
Thanks for the D500 recommendations, the reason I’m debating between the 2 is because I own some full frame lenses, with the high res of the D850 shooting in DX mode will give me a really close quality that the D500 offers which mean I can shoot DX or FX depending of the situation. Although the D500 is more of realistic price that I can afford at the moment.
Thanks for an interesting video Tony and Chelsea...just some thoughts... - Mirrorless has only just 'started' to be a true replacement with Sony (Canon and Nikon's first atempt was premeture tech and not ready yet) - Professional SLR vs Mirroless sales on Amazon seem to indicate professionals (higher value units) have switched to Mirrorless (Sony) - Majority of 'higher value' lenses on Amazon are mirorless mounts (Sony again!) - Seems Sony is winning the war currently and Canon and Nikon are lagging behind, perhaps once the next generation is ready it might help level the playing field a little and make it clear mirrorless is the future? - Once A9 tech gets cheaper and into the entry level mirrorless camera's this should start to see the end of many of the lower/entry level SLR's I believe
@INTOtheVOID11 You shoot? Are you a professional? If so have you switched or not? what's so funny? around 4 years when we tried out the A7Rii in our studio at photography events and meetups we were the only one shooting mirrorless... fast forward to today... there are significantly more people shooting Sony that I've seen! Also Sales data indicates there is very few sales on the higher end SLR gear compared to the uptake on mirrorless so I'm not too sure why you are 'LOL' Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all professionals are switching I"m just saying professionals are starting to switch to mirrorless now as it's only 'becoming' more mature now... Even our A7riii is still not perfect but it kept up with just about most SLR's and the A9 is beating most SLR's out there already so what I'm saying is the next generation of mirrorless I believe is going to kill SRL's as the old advantages such as battery life, fast focus and more importantly accurate focus at a decent FPS are all essentially been fixed with the A9 and the future of mirrorless is looking good... if you are a professional I'm keen to know what you find wrong about this statement and what you disagree about? I'm also keen to hear your opinion/side...
You forgot to mention the advantages of dslrs. A lot of people forget that what is best for them may not be for everyone. I prefer a bigger and slighty heavier camera over a smaller one, it feels more comfy and I shake a lot less with a bigger dslr and I am not the only one. Also I like the optical viewfinder and an evf can damage your eye over time when you spend hours shooting everyday. I start to feel dizzy after a day with an efv and again Im not the only one. Everyone has their preferences so buy what you like. Im looking to upgrade and am looking for the canon 1d series theres no doubt thats what I want.
I noticed that the more I buried my head in these statistics, the less I was thinking about taking pictures. It's good info but it's an unhealthy distraction for an Artist. Just pick up your camera and go take pictures. 📸
As long as the prices of Canon/Nikon DSLR's cameras /lenses continue with the current prices, Sony market will continue to grow as their technology is much better today. See their APC's camera keep improving (a6400) and FF are superb. Buttom line: Sony giving the best value for money today!
@@cowboys5group444 laughed at by professionals? Is that why the A9 is objectively better than the D5 and 1Dx Mark II in terms of image quality, autofocus, and shooting speed? And their lenses autofocus faster and more accurately, plus they're sharper. Have you seen the 400mm f2.8?
@@cowboys5group444 "laughed at by professionals" this isn't the days of the original a7 and the SLT series cameras. Sony's stuff is great now. I just swtiched from the original a7s to the xt3 but only cause my a7s is breaking down after 5 plus years of heavy use and (mainly) water damage
True. Unless I see a sub $1000 mirrorless that isn't a complete shitbox, I'm not convinced. Looking at the $ony 6000 series, I don't think much technology will leak down from the flagships in the observable future.
Yess but you can still grap the original a7 new for less and less money. a new 650 euro a7 (or a new 800 euro a7r) is not that much worse then an a7iii
@@davidstremmelaar5819 I'd go further than that and suggest that and suggest that the old faithful original a6000 is still on the market for a reason. Tech-wise it might not be very compelling to us, but it's very cheap and actually a very capable device considering that (at least in the UK where I live) I see them on sale for around £350 making it a worthwhile beginner's camera with a solid upgrade path. Arguably, neither Cannon or Nikon have a camera on the market that can be bought from New at that price that's as capable. Of course, if a teenager approached me for a recommendation, I probably wouldn't advise then to buy new for a first camera (get an old T3i off eBay for £75 and you'll be pretty content for a while) but parents supporting their hobby, or older people just getting into it will feel pretty well served. And hey, I took photos of gigs and theatre for years on an a6000, along with a bit of portraiture. It might not have the bells and whistles, but it'll do the job.
@@2406ab totally, but with sensor size being the marketing battleground of the moment I think that people are starting to get more cautious any M4/3. Then again, a lot of beginner's just see a compact "proper camera" with interchangeable lenses at a low price, I met a guy not long ago who bought an entry level Olympus specifically for astro photography and who was really pleased with it. Unexpected things do happen. I do think the upgrade path hurts people a bit though; the higher end M4/3 bodies are just fighting a losing battle against larger sensors right now.
I pretty much agree. I hope that Nikon survives as a long-time Nikon user. I am sitting on the fence as far as the Z mount goes. I also expect MFT to survive but with a focus on video with niche players like Blackmagic and with Olympus persevering with cameras more suited to still photography. Good video. Thanks.
You have some really interesting perspectives on the future for camera brands and their various mounts. But I really hope that your wrong about M43, because we deserve such a good alternative to full frame. I have both, but I find myself grabbing the M43 gear for hobby use. I'm so tired of lugging around heavy gear at work, and I'm amazed what kind of quality I'm able to get from that little sensor. I love those tiny prime lenses that are sharp all the way to F:1.8. Their weight is next to nothing, they cost less and they perform well. My favorites now are these Olympus lenses: 1.8/75mm, 2/12mm and 4/12-100mm. And I also love my super fast Panasonic G9. And because these lenses are quite fast I can keep ISO low and quality high. And I have used a lot of top class full frames, like Canon 1DxMk2, Canon R, Sony A9, A7iii. They are all super good, but the glass is so heavy (and the 1DxMk2). So for you people doing photography for fun, it's really nice to carry a very small bag with lenses from (35mm equiv.) 18 to 600 mm that fulfills all your needs, even nice bokeh.
Precisely. Ideal travel camera, often "amphibious" - great photo AND video capabilities, light, weatherproof. My no. 1 for any outdoor job. Basically I rarely use any high ISO values. One of the photographer's jobs is controlling the light conditions. 20 Mpix M43 sensor is better than 10+ years old 10 Mpix APS-C sensor of my Pentax K10D. When shooting films, M43/Super16 sensors are larger than 1" sensors of most of pro grade video cameras. Super 35 sensor is the APS-C equivalent. Alexa Mini or Amira are S35 but using much lower pixel density than photographic sensors is what makes them to be superb in low light (similarly Lumix GH5s or BMPCC with M43/Super 16). For some shots, even using S35 is impossible or difficult taking into account large size of the camera and accessories.
I like this analysis, because it's based on real data and not just personal preferences. Canon and Nikon especially are in a REALLY tricky situation right now.
youuuuuuuuuuutube what I find interesting is that Canon basically just copied a bunch of their existing lenses and made them mirrorless. I wonder if they actually spent a lot of money developing them or if they just reverse engineered what they had cheaply. Nikon didn’t invest too much in the Z mount, hence the poor quality lenses with a high price tag. And Canon also raises the prices significantly on theirs. I would also agree with Tony that Sony and Fuji are poised to keep growing.
@@danielcrotty8697 Are you sure they just copied lenses? Sounds like they made higher quality versions, for example the 85mm 1.2 has this new "Blue Spectrum Refractive" technology, the problem is that they're also incredibly expensive. They might have convinced more people to buy into the R system with cheaper lenses.
@@danielcrotty8697 That is complete nonsense. Canon's RF lenses are designed specifically for the shorter flange back distance of the RF mount, so there is no way they could be reverse engineered from existing EF designs. Nikon has invested heavily in the Z mount, and the current lenses for it are optically spectacular; the primes are near Otus levels for 1/6th the price, 1/3rd the weight and with autofocus, so how is that overpriced?
It's amazing that Tony can spend all of this time and energy accumulating data, but at the same time be unaware that Nikon has been very clear that they are not abandoning developing new DSLR's and F-mount lenses. They've been practically shouting that from the rooftops.
@@aceflibble Maybe you missed the releases of the 180-400mm and the 500mm PF. Also the pretty reliable signs that a D6 and a D750 replacement are coming. Not the actions of a company "just saying" they are going to support F-mount.
@@aceflibble The 600PF is already in NPS hands and should be released this summer. So if Tony is saying that if Nikon goes full-bore into mirrorless and doesn't continue to support DSLR, they will go out of business. Are you then basically saying they are willingly going to go out of business? I really can't see that happening.
There's a big flaw with all this data and that's the focus on FF. I can see the smaller sensor cameras gaining market share just because of the overall value vs. the FF premium.
"I just like a good old-fashioned record player" And what do you see now when you walk into the music shops? Vinyl. It's back. It wouldn't be getting the shelf space if people weren't buying it.
Not necessarily, it's just that CD sales are becoming more and more comparable to vinyl. Physical music media is becoming more of a niche and yes, it's not dead but like it or not, it's getting replaced by streaming and downloads in the mainstream market. Same with cameras. Sad but true.
Met a Pulitzer-winning photojournalist on a trip recently who says EVF's are still not good enough and his eyes quickly tire when watching a screen rather than looking at the world through a lens, so not an option for pro work. Made me feel like a hobbyist with my Fuji.
...and he was 70 yo. :) But jokes aside, i switched from 5d Mk3 to Sony A7R3 in december last year (yes it was a pain to ditch those great Canon lenses after so many years), but a couple of month was enough to me to stop looking into a small hole when taking pictures. I don't use the EVF at all now. It is so easier to look at the backscreen and more convenient to use both my eyes. It's bright enough, works great even in direct sunlight (it's much brighter then the screen on the "basic" A73, or any of my previous Canon bodies), refresh rate is more than enough, lag is barely noticable. EVF is far from replacing OVF, but right now i'm not even sure if it has to. I really enjoy using my camera this way and the quality of the backscreen will be a key point in my future investments.
I know .. I tried to come up with the same list and i can't. So cited sources would already help .. Plus, the latest camera to come out was tye x-t3 i believe. So to be fair you would have to compare sales as of that date.. I liked his lighting videos but so far in the 10 minutes i watched on this one(will finish tonight), i am not impressed. And nikon d5300 shows up twice on his top 16 which they probably meant nikon d3500 but hey..
Very interesting discussion. I’ll throw my 2 cents in. I tried a mirrorless and despite the obivious and many advantages I just do not like the EVF. I want to like it but I just don’t.
I just did my yearly walkthrough of B&H, tried every body under $1500. I was surprised, the two standouts for me were the D750 and 6Dii in every way. I had gone in thinking I’d probably be coming home with a mirrorless. I sold my 80D to buy the X100F nine months ago, and somewhat regret it.
finally someone mentions EXISTING BODIES rather than sales. the dslr sales numbers are a red herring because people are holding onto their bodies and buying used more than before because dslr quality has plateaud compared to the early 2000s
Pentax and Olympus long ago figured out how to survive and thrive as niche players in the camera market. When was the last time Pentax cameras outsold Canon cameras, 1976? So if market share alone were determinative, Pentax would have folded up shop in the early 1990s. Same goes for Olympus. Same goes for Fujifilm. Pentax is the Canada Dry of the camera world. Olympus is the Dr. Pepper. Sure, there are much bigger competitors in the marketplace. Sure, there are 10 flavors of Diet Coke (and 10 flavors of Canon lens mounts), but niche companies aren't going away anytime soon.
Apparently the imaging division of Ricoh is profitable. Of which Pentax is a part, along with what seems the very successful Ricoh GR series. Nope, Pentax is not going anywhere soon it would seem.
Yep. This is what happens in shrinking markets. Canon and Nikon are playing catch-up with Sony. They are selling fewer cameras in total and even their new mirrorless designs are not selling close to their own estimates. Like Tony said, when the money is in lenses, why invest in a mount that is small to begin with and declining. You mention Pentax and Olympus, and I agree that they have their niches. Pentax in particular has a great advantage in the K mount. It has been around forever and requires no investment. Read that again. NO investment. Tony says it will die but not that long ago he rated the K-1 as the best landscape camera on the market. I just looked at one and hmmm, Pentax is making no investment in the multi-format movie space. The K-1 will make movies but just enough, again NO investment needed. But what I did notice were the strange little touches Pentax is famous for. Lights to help see the lens mount and card slots in the dark. A very cool GPS integration. Astro-tracking/tracing whatever that is, large easy to use by feel control wheels and to my surprise, the ability to make the rear LCD display in night vision red. What does this mean? With NO investment Pentax has found a place with astro photographers. Maybe not a large niche, but I'll bet one that will sustain the brand. Finally I looked at the wild price reductions from Canon and Nikon as they try to buy share from Sony, which I think is a losing proposition. Then I looked at the price of a K-1. Hmmm just down about $100 from its launch price maybe 3 years ago? It's only new release was the 50mm f/1.4 which I imagine is a lens the astro boys were very happy to see. A low investment product on a NO investment mount. So the Ricoh/Pentax guy who made that outlandish statement may be dead on. When all the dust has settled maybe the remaining players will be Sony, Olympus and Pentax.
I am a recent convert to the Nikon Z6. I come from the D1, D2, D2X, and D4 (I also have a D7000) and a plethora of F-mount lenses. I weighed buying a new D850 vs. the Z6, and landed on the Z with the F-mount adapter - couldn't be happier. So although I agree Nikon could be a sinking ship financially, I believe the future is in mirrorless cameras. I manage a 55,000 sq/ft studio for a fortune 100 manufacturer of construction and ag machinery. And after much research, we believe the transition to mirrorless is inevitable, for all of the obvious reasons. Simply don't see the need for a mirror flopping around inside the camera body - one more thing to break or slow things down. And with the lens adapters as we transition (and no image quality degradation), looking forward, we are betting on mirrorless .
@@dzevadbayraktar322 Hi David, I appreciate the reply, but have you actually used a Z-mound camera? I don't find them to be awkward to hold or unproportional. It's a bit of a different feel, but nothing that bothers me - even with the adapter and my 70-200 mounted. And the image quality of both still and video are amazing. I'm totally diggin' this rig!
I think all new interchangeable lens camera buyers will go for a mirror less system. There are so many advantages for video and stills. They just have to make a better mirror less camera for the same or a lower price and people will slowly make the transition. I am using a Canon R for TH-cam now and am forced to use EF lenses because the RF lenses are so expensive. I think once affordable lenses are available, more people will jump on board with the new mirror less systems. For now, it;s not just the price of the body, it's the lenses you need to buy, that kills the deal for most people.
But you're using your EF lenses on it, right? And they work correctly, yes? Canon is basically giving the adapter away with the camera for just that reason.
Sadly, I am already committed to Nikon, and Nikon's Z-adapter is NOT free. Still, I am using a Z50 and am very happy with it. Because I have a lot of Nikon lenses - and bought a new one that is F-mount - I am glad I spent the money on the adapter.
This kind of video again Tony. 😊 Is this dead? Is that dead? Is x dying? Is y gonna die out? Yes. Everything dies eventually. Everything have a beginning, a middle and an end. Even mirrorless 😱🤫
babylon4953 right!?! Why are we beating this horse again? We get it, you’ve established your opinion on the future of photography and need not bombard us with data to validate that opinion. We aren’t investors in canon and Nikon. Invested in the systems; yes, and there is definitely something to be said for that aspect of the conversation. But this is dragging it out. Content has to be made, but think outside the box Tony and or Chelsea
Hong Kong Phooey yes and the black hole in the center of the Milkyway will just expand and swallow the whole galaxy. (our sun isn't big enough to become a super nova btw) Including our sun, by then a white dwarf. (who knew astrology could be so racist, right?) So let's just all lay down and wait to die.
I really feel that Nikon HAS to release an APS-C (DX) level Z series consumer / Pro-Sumer camera that people can grow into . They need an update path like Sony has to make it in the long run.
calling the micro 4/3 mount as going to die is foolish, it may not have a huge photo following but it has a huge video market, especially with the blackmagic pocket cinema camera 4k and the Panasonic GH5
Stagecoaches aren't going anywhere. Cars are too expensive. The wood of the stagecoach is more natural to my eye than this cold metal. And the range of the cars is lower. With my horses I can travel for days on end without looking for a pump.
Usually when a new technology comes out, it takes time for it to catch up and even overtake the existing tech. I remember when digital cameras hit the market? Many people said digital cameras will not be as good as film. I remember a buddy saying, he'll never go digital. I believe even he has. Mirrorless has been slowly but surely catching up with DSLR.
The problem is you only remember the winners. The losing new tech never reaches the public. That's why Tony's point about DVD audio is a great one. It's not really possible to say if something will overtake or if it's a gimmick. Nobody knows.
@@CanditoTrainingHQ I see your point. I am mainly thinking of Mirrorless cameras. which isn't like to say DCC, DAT, or Laserdisc. I remember as a kid Kodak disc cameras. Ya, that didn't do too well. I have a Z6 and I like it. It does have advantages & disadvantages to DSLR. My D5200 is faster with moving subjects but the Z6 kills it in low light.
Your assumptions are on a linear acceptance rate, which is a false assumption. When Nikon and Canon put actual, professional mirrorless bodies out, their R, RP, Z6-7 will be purchased more. Also, as native trinity glass is produced for both systems, there will be a greater number that transition. Love you guys, but success isn't linear, and neither will sales for mirrorless.
I second this. it won't be linear for sure. ppl buying MILC from Nikon & Canon now are kinda early adopters. when the shift actually happens DSLRs sales will plummet.
Exactly, when 2nd gen Canikon mirrorless cameras, with all the kinks ironed out, hit the market then adoption rates will increase exponentially. Also, it is much harder to convince an existing DSLR user to buy new lenses than it is to convince a new mirrorless user who presumably want to take advantage of mirrorless mounts for lenses. So Tony's assessment of the potential new lens buyer market is completely wrong.
@@mikhaillastname8719 Before the Sony A9 and A7iii Tony still didn't even like Sony... because there wasn't enough native glass at that time. I like these two, but maybe it's time to get out of his own head. He clearly worked to defend that he knew what he was talking about, but left out some really key factors and strictly made assumptions based on one sales stream.
@@Bayonet1809 bingo. That's why Canon & Nikon didn't release "Pro" bodies first. Without the native Glass to support the system there was no point. Until Sony's most recent body releases of the A9 and A7s, that finally have two card slots and the glass to support them, people still questioned the future of mirrorless including Tony. That is why Chelsea bought the D850. Some short memories on this episode.
@@Bayonet1809 I do agreee about the Canon M line up though. That one doesn't look like it's going anywhere. We will see. Who knows, maybe Canon is paying someone to figure that out.
Great video, but I disagree. The adapters work just fine for the Canon and Nikon mirrorless cameras and their old lenses. They’ll likely pull the mirrors out, and start releasing more products, but on fewer platforms. Much like Sony and Subaru, to save money they’ll unify their platforms, but diversify internal differences to make for different models. People will be using their adapter Canon and Nikon glass long after I’m dead and gone, but I would be shocked if Nikon or Canon released a camera with a mirror later than 2-3 years from now. Additionally, follow the money. Since, as you mentioned, the real money is in lenses, by releasing a new mount with new lenses and cameras, it allows them to get their cash cow customers, of which there are many, to totally buy all their gear all over again. They know they won’t ever sell as well (hence the crazy prices), but it’s financially in their best interest to come out with the new and shinies.
SwitchRich I think manufacturers know this about the average APS-C users, which is why they’re pushing hard into the full frame/medium format range right now. That’s where the people with money spend it.
DSLR are like ICE (intnernal combustion engine) mirrorless are like EVs, ice are on the late stage of it's development while on EVs are on it's early stage. DSLR has very little space to improve mirrorless has the future or even the smartphone cams ( already seen a phone shooting 8k)
Being in the situation of being confused on what to buy right now as my first DSLR, I'm tempted to go with something like a Canon D80 which has virtually everything I need to learn on, it's not too expensive unlike the current crop of Mirrorless like Sony, Panasonic and Olympus and their lenses are fairly expensive as well.....like most newish tech on the market, once theres a lot more models, tech flows down through the lower priced models and they get cheaper over time. I already have a mirrorless phone camera and a slightly older Mirrorless Fujifilm 6800s zoom bridge camera that I can use....so don't really crave more...I can cope with a mirror flapping about a bit as I rarely do action photos anyway. Great video Tony & Chelsea..thankyou.
Dslr is not dead until the image quality declines. I have yet to have a client look at my portfolio and ask "Are these taken with a mirrorless camera?".
@Дуотт Даэнур The problem is most of the people caught in this spec war are video guys. Us photo guys would much prefer to just ditch the video crap and go back to the good old days when a photo camera didnt have to have video features to be relevant
I just finished up on a 2 week holiday travelling around tourist hot spots in Australia. I watch the analytical videos that T&C and others had put up and it puts me on the lookout for what cameras everyone was using. I can tell you the following from my holiday: A. When I saw an elderly caucasian person with a camera (I define elderly as 50 years old or older) 10/10 times they had a DSLR hanging around their neck. B. When I saw an elderly Asian person with a camera, roughly half the time they had a DSLR and half the time they had a mirror less camera. And I NEVER saw a Nikon mirroreless in anyone's hands. It was almost always a Sony mirrorless. C. When there were younger Caucasian or younger Asian human beings, they almost always had mirroreless cameras, not DSLRs. Again almost all were Sony and I never saw a Nikon mirrorless. Note, the above comments refer to those who had interchangeable lens cameras. When looking at all cameras, most people simply used their smart phones, second was ILC and third was gopro. The elderly caucasian people do not seem to use smart phones for photos, rather they were consistently using an ILC and they were always using a DSLR ILC. My question : Are elderly retiress propping up the DSLR sales? Do they know mirrorless exist? They don't seem to know their smartphone exists. Tony can you dig up age group and ethnic data for those camera sales? There's always more to the story than overall trends.
Aged 66, use Sony Nex 7 and Sony xa1 mobile phone. Resisted getting a 35mm until 1993 when I got a Minolta 7Xi and by 2005 had a small collection of 35mm cameras to pick from. From 1970 until 2003 I mostly used subminiature film cameras when no one every had a camera with them except for special occassions. Used 35mm film until around 2009. Got a Sony Nex 5a in July 2010; as an upgrade to the camcorder 6mp Sony HDR-HC7E. I only know of one DSLR camera user. A couple of friends have compact point and shoot digital camera but half of them only use their iPhone or Android phone cameras. Outside of professional use I would guess than 90% of people's interest and needs for taking stills or videos are covered by camera phones and unlike cameras the phone is with them nearly all the time. Of the tourists I see in the UK many seem to prefer to use their mobile phone for photography even if they also have a camera (digital compact , bridge, mirrorless or DSLR) around their necks. 15 years ago many thought that most camera companies would disappear. Some, like Leica who manufacture in very small numbers might continue with specialist equipment but mass produced models would disappear. Minolta, who got awards for the best camera of the century in the Vectis S1 sold out to Sony and Konica and Minolta disappeared. The number of companies and range of models seems higher than ever although the choices of significant differences in new models are smaller .
Do professional phhotographers really buy their gear on Amazon ? I don't think so ... But amateurs do ! And they represent the main part of high quality cameras like APSC sensors ... It would be great to see all this in the full frame market and what professionals will be chosing in the future :)
Amazon sales figures are not a good indicator. No-one would buy a high end camera without checking it hands on first - and that would be in a store; and professionals probably have a relationship with a store where they buy their gear. I cant imagine any pro buying his gear on Amazon, and the good stores would probably price match Amazon anyway.
@@chrissimpson9981 This. I don't buy anything but minor accessories and the odd hard-to-get lens online. The guys at the local shop know me and my needs. That counts for a hell of a lot.
About how many pro - users did you speak? There are so many people outthere who are selling the stuff without to get money for their pictures! They feel like professional users, but they aren't. This is the market for the big companies, the pros are just a much smaller group with very special interest in technical gear. I have seen a group of 15 - 20 doctors on a private date at a winery just to relax. Everyone of them had a top dslr with extreme expensive lenses on it. I could count how many pictures are made: 0 ! But it was nice to see the cams in their cars... Porsche/Ferrari/Jaguar... You know what I mean? Too much people with too much money... And such people will buy at Amazon...or their secretaries ;-)
"when film died" lol... I just bought some Kodak Ultramax that is now sitting in my fridge. Also Ive shot two rolls of medium format film in the last year, seems fine to me.
Just because everyone buys phones with camera's doesn't mean camera's on their own are dead. It just says people buy phones with camera's. DSLR's will stay for a while longer, probably for another 100 years. Also misinformation doesn't mean the phone addicts are right, phones are phones regardless of what toy they add. They will never be as good and personally I wouldn't call someone using a phone a pro photographer at any level. I call them misguided fools trying to feel special while there is no thing special thing to what they do. Also the misguided idea of really needing the latest and the best doesn't make your work better, it's the skills and knowledge that you build up over the years that make the real difference. Giving a starter a top of the line body and lenses doesn't instantly make that person a pro, all they do is have some lucky shots with the camera where the camera actually does the heavy lifting as it was designed to do. I'd like to put out a challenge to everyone that has the financial means to do this and having high end camera's: Buy yourself some cheap camera's that are no more then 100 USD, yes the cheap toy things pretty much. Now go out there and make some photo's, without editing them right away you should check the difference and also check whether your photo's still look as good as your usual work. You will be surprised for the results.
@@ZeldagigafanMatthew In both cases I wouldn't call it photography, compact camera's are for tourists and the common family photo's while a phone remains a phone, no matter how shiny the paint job or good the camera is.
Thanks a tonne both of you for stating the fact from a photographer pov.. My current strategy : 1. Buy more L lenses cause they are reliable . 2. Invest on Learning, Marketing to get more paying clients and lighting equipments. 3. Buy backup lenses and bodies 4. Finally go for exotic lenses 🥳☺️ Lenses are gonna stay 💞, bodies will come and go away.
Fascinating discussion and analysis. Thank you for sharing (I don't shoot the messenger -- as.a former journalist, I used to be one of those messengers who was used for target practice). I think it would be interesting in a couple of years if you would re-examine the numbers again to see how closely today's projections reflect reality.
@@OttoBerrg I think I already have the few AI lenses I'll ever need which are the: 28mm f3.5; 50mm f1.4; 135mm f2.8; 80-200mm f4.5. But out of curiosity, What are you selling?
@@typoded Tony said that in his EOS RP review. He helped creating the "cheapest full frame" mirrorless camera hype, which is dead by now as we all know.
What about several years from now when the 1DX dies, and the new mirrorless of the day has several times the resolution and two stops more DR-oh, and *you can seamlessly use every one of your existing lenses* because every single one of these cameras pretty much comes with Canon's own factory EF adapter-oops, one of the three different models of adapters they offer.
That's probably just fine for a couple of years at least. But eventually you may have to, if your competitors are enjoying things like a full stop faster performance on their mirrorless lenses, more consistent AF tracking, etc, due to the newer tech.
DSLRs have conplicated mechanical moving parts and can fail or malfunction at any given instance. And you need to be very careful in handling them. Mirrorless its enemies are dust and over all climate
In a different very informative episode, you correctly pointed out how much the job market for photographers is changing. You stated there that one of the best ways to escape this downward trend is to develop one's skills in multiple areas, namely photo and video. If we look at video specs, mirrorless cameras are already outperforming DSLRs by a considerable margin. If we add the advantages of advanced object tracking, I am tempted to believe that this technological shift might significantly shorten camera replacement cycles because professional photographers will need to switch to mirrorless just to stay in business. While the DSLR base is huge currently, I would argue it will shrink a lot faster, especially in the face of a more competitive job market. Now, you already announced M4/3 dead, you now also put the L mount on the list of "endangered" species. Can both be true at the same time? This would leave Panasonic without any mount. Also, the L mount is backed by 3 well-respected companies which is unique in the camera industry to date. As always, big thanks for the high quality content from you. I am looking forward a lot to your in-depth reviews of the Fujifilm X-T3 and GFX100.
reminds me of my first mp3 player. It had - I kid you not - 8MB space for your music and no way to add external storage. So you could have about 2 songs in decent quality on that thing. They got kicked out of the market by minidisc player at that time. Couple of years later, better mp3 player entered the market and overtook everything else, including first Ipad and so on, the rest is history.
Nicholas Kellingley Sony clung to their Betamax for a long time. What really sunk Betamax is that Sony was insiting on royalties to use their system, and the other manufacturers were not having a bar of that.
We're not even mentioning the most important factor here, which is the average age of camera users... It's a rapidly ageing market and unless something changes, Canon and Nikon will die with their current DSLR userbase. These 40 to 80 year olds won't prop up the industry forever. Kids are basically getting into photography via smartphones nowadays, so we need to make their progression to 'real' cameras seamless... I.e a sub $1000 android powered camera. But giant DSLR's with flappy mirrors seem like antiques to young people. That's a huge problem! There are simply no new buyers. Sony have now merged their smartphone and imaging departments are that is a massive positive and an encouraging sign that Sony "get it". Unless others follow suit they're all dead within 6 years. Say what you like about Sony but they're the only manufacturer who isn't in total denial. Sadly it is the reluctance of stubborn DSLR owners to switch to mirrorless which is ultimately killing the industry. Young people don't have thousands to spend on camera gear so a $10k medium format camera aimed at people over 40 is not the move. The industry is so short-termist, arrogant and elitist in its approach to new gear it's laughable. Anyway, sorry for the essay... I didn't realise what a complex issue this was until I started typing! Haha
In the film days there was camera progression from point-n-shoots to 35mm range finders to DSLRs to medium format cameras. The price points made moving up more reasonable as one's interests matured. Now it is phone to DSLR/mirrorless with very few rangefinder type cameras around. What I see at events is phones or DSLRs and nothing in between. There is big jump from essentially a free camera in the phone to $500+ kit to with a DSLR. No one seems to use about $150 - $250 rangefinder now. This will create a migration problem as those who get into photography have spend serious money up front with no intermediate step (or stopping point).
The real comparison here is HDTV. It took HDTV over 20 year to replace standard definition TV because it required a change/upgrade in hardware. The bottom line is that mirror-less will get here but it is going to take time. DDJ
I’ve been a long time Nikon DSLR shooter and I have recently made the plunge into mirrorless. What prompted me to do so were the rave reviews on the Nikon Z mount new lenses and their excellent optical capabilities that were, as a new line of lenses, optically above and beyond the very mature line of Nikon F mount lenses (I’m a high cropper and thus a sharpness addict). I looked long and hard at the Nikon Z7 and the Sony a7R3, shooting with each of them for a few hours. I did not look at the canon mirrorless because I wanted a 40+ megapixel sensor. In the end I purchased the Z7, because I absolutely loved it’s ergonomics, including the touchscreen capabilities to very quickly control the camera. Yes, the Sony’s focus tracking capabilities were superior to the Z7, but that was not enough for me to tilt the balance, the way I shoot. What I really love about the Z7, with which I’ve already shot several thousand images, other than the excellent optical quality of the lenses, is the great electronic viewfinder-It’s super usable in both lowlight and direct sun conditions. Also, the ability to adjust exposure on the fly and see what your shot is going to look like is simply priceless to me. The ability to look at the live histogram and see how much clipping you’re going to get is also super useful. Do I think DSLR’s are dead? Well as long as Nikon DSLRs have better focus tracking than their mirrorless models, DSLRs will survive, and the impending arrival of the Nikon D6 thus makes sense. In my view, once that hurdle is crossed, there won’t be any turning back. There’s just no reason to stick to DSLRs in the long run. In the short run of course if you have a lot invested in DSLR lenses, and are loathe to use an adapter, and are happy with the image sharpness you are getting, then it makes sense to stick to DSLR’s for a while longer.
Everyone should listen to Tony and ditch their MFT equipment now. Sell to KEH or B&H so I can spot those new sweet deals. If you think Tony is "full of it"... dump your F mount equipment in those same places so I can reluctantly save cash when I remain in the past... Thanks in advance!
Man you two and the Fro are just in another level. Thanks for this! PS: A true thank you for not being part of the advertising mordor army of the recent new tripod :)
Jon Snow is not dead... And I think even 1% of a massive, active and growing mirrorless market is still profitable enough to make a few new lenses. Fast nickle versus slow dime. :)
DSLRs will be around for years, but like DVD players, the technology will stop advancing and become much cheaper. But like film and records, most things stick around as long as the people who use them are around. But mirrorless is the future.
You can still buy a new Nikon F6. I do think that many if not most of the new technology fgoing into cameras will be computational and AI based, and leave behind DSLRs over the next 5-10 years.
No! The m43 segment isn’t served by cell phones. That’s absurd! 20mp is not a liability of the m43 system either. I’m a amateur not a pro, and I simply enjoy my hobby. Photography isn’t all about pixels count, dynamic range, and bokeh it’s about the imagination and artistic capabilities of the photographer. In most cases raw file against raw file most would not perceive a consequential difference. I love the gear head talk, because I enjoy learning about gear too, and I think Tony and Chelsea have a fantastic channel and I’ve bought their books on photography, but I’m not sure they understand the m43 segment of the market.
Panasonic and Olympus have really dropped the ball with pushing m43 sensor development, and it shows. So many products with the old 16 megapixel sensor still, and all of them should be upgraded to the 20 megapixel sensors in the current EM-1 series, and the EM1X should have had substantial upgrades for image quality. I am looking forward to what Sharp's new 8k m43 camera is going to be like.
Tony Wong Od agree. Olympus has been slower than Panasonic to employ the 20mp sensor. Frustrating to wait for the E-M5 III with hopefully an upgraded sensor and discontinuing the Pen F. However, the difference is marginal anyway. The problem is physics not development.
I cannot say how much I value your analyses. If I were a HR guy from Canon or Sony I would have tried to hire you years ago. Thanks for the awesome, scientific, free content. Regards from a german dr. of engineering
Not dead but dying in a few years mirrorless cameras has passed DSLR in speed, focus, and every thing else so whats the point having a noisy mirror closing and opening
Looking forward to good DSLR equipment finally becoming affordable.
It is - look at Pentax.
Get a used Nikon D750
Yes and value of good glasses stays more stable than bodies which prices change so quickly
Used d800e bodies selling for under $800. Some with very reasonable actuations, like >50k.
@@andrewcomerford9411 although Pentax is good - I am shooting with Pentax cameras for years - Sigma and Tamron stopped manufacturing lenses for it. For many years there is no new high-end APS-C model (KP is mid-range). Problems with slow AF are still here, too.
1. Don't use data sources when you don't understand how they're generated.
1a. You can have 1000 entires of the same product on the Amazon list, in different packaging.
2. Don't confuse volume with profit.
3. Make sure your data source is based on the target demographic (high margin products in photography is not purchased on Amazon).
But how can they mold data to fit their narrative if they actually collect it properly?!?!
I would add that a listing without quantities is worse than useless. It gives false information. Number 3 on the list could be almost at the same quantity as number 1. Furthermore Paretto law suggest that 20 percent of the items should generate 80% of the sales.
probably should have used B&H and other more profession like store fronts for that specific gathering of data.
Amazon is far and away the largest retailer. It’s fairly safe to assume the sales ranks are a power law distribution.
Although I own a Nikon DSLR with 4 lens the camera I carry with me is my Sony RX100IV. It is small, practical, takes reasonable pictures and most importantly is in my hand!
It's also the case the DVD-Audio vs. SACD simply split the market, preventing either format from gaining much ground. But it's relevant to think of "high end audio" vs MP3 as being akin to "real cameras" versus smartphones. The set of people who had home stereo systems capable of exploting full CD quality is fairly small... meanwhile, the MP3 travelled with you everywhere and offered the convience of your whole collection on one small device. DSLR or mirrorless, you get far superior quality in a camera over a phone, if you really learn photography: shooting and editing. The phone, like MP3, is "good enough" for average non-photographers. And they increasingly employ advanced photo techniques like various kinds of photo stacking, all AI controlled.
The upshot of all this is that a novice with a modern smartphone, moving to an entry-level DSLR or mirrorless, is going to have trouble getting shots that match what they got on the phone. There's a learning curve, and they're unprepared. In the past, you might have moved from a snapshot camera to a compact rangefinder or something before your SLR, and each upgrade immediately delivered better images. Not so much anymore.
Well said!
I think the Tony's right in everything he said I have the d700 d500 and the d850 I will never replace them for a mirrorless camera I'm very happy with them the great cameras great colors great image what else can I say if ain't broke don't fix it thank you Tony for your Insight
You're going to have to eat your words at some point ^^
Just as an analogy, think sports car.. I have driven the E-Type Jag and a modern Lamborgini.. The Lambo is so much more refined.. You can’t smell the oil. The ride is quiet and you can here your passenger speak. The ride doesn’t shake your teeth loose at high speed.. Now look at the definition of the true sports car.. Good looks and fast. You can smell the oil and your teeth get shaken loose at high speed and you would have to take your eyes off the road to lipread what your passenger was saying.. Those were the days! My DSLR is more like an E-Type!
@@Sidowse yeah but thats less of a mirrorless more of a cinema
The D850 is a heirloom.
@@paulsimmonds2030 Sure....but the exhilarating induction roar from those SU carbs, isn't that analogous with the mirror moving out of the way in your DSLR?
PS:- (Just pulling your leg).
In 2021 the Night King will raise his arms and all the neglected DSLRs will rise again.
Yeah but there Samsung will just stab him and it’ll be all over
You can't kill what's already dead!
Arya Stark: "Hold my beer ..."
Haha 😂
I’d like to think of stony as the Night King.
I don't have any intention of neglecting my DSLRs ..... Mirrorless will be the Betamax of the camera world.
You're missing some vitally important common sense here. In short: speculation.
Mirrorless camera owners have a much greater appetite for new lenses compared to DSLR owners who have an existing range of lenses and/or know that they'll upgrade to mirrorless in near future and therefore hold off buying DSLR lenses.
Also, although by current numbers alone it makes no sense for manufacturers to invest in mirrorless lenses/accessories, in the long-run it makes absolute sense as a lot of consumers will hold off changing to mirrorless until there's a larger infrastructure in place. Yes there are mounts for EOS lenses, etc. but when changing formats I (and most) want a range of mirrorless lenses to enable them to go all-in.
Agreed. You can also add in exponential growth of Mirrorless with a decrease in the number of new DSLRs being produced and an increase in new Mirrorless models (from all manufacturers) that covers more/all of the market. The fact that virtually all DSLR lenses can be used on Mirrorless will compound the move to ML.
I think you're right but not just because it's 'mirrorless'. New mounts demand new lenses. Old mounts have many lenses to choose from in the secondary market, including third party and used.
Also most owners of DSLRs don't go past their kit lens, especially low cost kits (APSC DSLRs especially), which really diminishes the significance of the installed base. This would likely apply to mirrorless too, but most current mirrorless sales are chasing full-frame and high-end users, which tend to buy multiple primes and can afford more lenses too.
"Mirrorless camera owners have a much greater appetite for new lenses compared to DSLR owners"
Tony & Chelsea Northrup There are more DSLR owners so of course the lenses are selling more atm. You don't need to spend time analysing Amazon statistics to assume that. I was talking about DSLR Vs Mirrorless owners 1-1 (not all-all which is pointless atm as the ratio will swing dramatically since we're in a crossover stage). Not everyone jumps ship immediately after new tech goes on sale; rather they re-evaluate their tech when their natural upgrade cycle comes around - for many/most this is still years away. There were more horses on the road than cars until around 1908 - more than 20 years after the first car went on sale but selling/buying fuel wasn't dumb in 1890. Likewise, cart spares carried on selling well for my years to come. It's not a case of all or nothing. My point is that any sales numbers you cite at the relative birth of new tech aren't indicative of the numbers of tomorrow. Mirrorless sales will rise exponentially rather than, as you seem to be suggesting, linearly. Happy to let time be the teller, though.
@@TonyAndChelsea If however you spend any amount of time on forums I think you can see that this is because the majority of mirrorless users are enthusiasts that will adapt lenses to their cameras. For example their existing Canon lenses, m-mount lenses or the now plethora (over 150+ at last count for Sony from a wide variety of manufacturers and inc. Cine lenses, full list on Brian Smith's site) of E mount lenses. Therefore many different lenses but likely sales spread around them so that individual lenses likely don't figure on best seller lists.
There's a reason Sony (for example) are now the world's #2 ICL camera seller, having just overtaking Nikon, and have been the #1 seller of Full Frame cameras for quite some time. Naturally they can't have obtained that position without selling an awful lot of lenses.
I would add that personally I hear of very few of those users on forums buying from Amazon. This may be a smaller market than your average non-enthusiast, one DSLR/one or two zooms, buyer on Amazon but they buy many many more lenses.
quick answer - NO. My DSLR's are gonna serve until the shutter shatters.
LordArioh x....haha, yes but then they will be dead right? Looool
@@tonypower9315 obviously. unless I fix them and make a video 'Are DSLR cameras undead?'
You mean...when your DSLR dies?
@@hakujo Then you get the shutter replaced.. then you're gonna be good for another 300k
Then you are the kind of consumer the camera companies are aiming for when they plan their marketing strategies
Thought it would be interesting to see how things have changed in the past few months, so here's an update as of Nov 5: the Canon T6 and T7 along with Nikon 3000 and 5000 series are still the top sellers, but mirrorless models appear to have moved up....
#11 Sony A6000
#54 Sony A7R iii
#57 Canon EOS M50
#61 Nikon Z50
#66 Sony A6500
The vast majority of the top 100 are entry DSLR kits (with tripods, bags, SD, etc. included) between $300 and $600, along with a few high end Nikon and Canon bodies
I think it will take a long time for DSLR to completely die off. It's probably not on the critical list yet.
Yep- the Nikon D850 is a relic, sell it to me cheap. 😎
It is a hell of a camera. It is really overkill most of the time. GFX 100 is just insane.
Dennis W I actually want one... using a d500 right now and am fine with the d850 coming down in price. 😊
@@jen43072 How is the D500? XT3 better?
Have never used the XT3. I like the d500 a Lot but want its big brother for full frame
@@mainmain5303 I have both. The XT3 beats the D500 in everything except lens selection and build/weather sealing. Well, I also think the XT3 is too small in the hand, I much prefer the feel of the D500. I'm going to get the XT3 battery grip and see it that helps.
If Tony is correct, it creates an interesting business strategy scenario for Canon and Nikon. But, my guess is that most of the people who buy the Canon T6 or T7 or whatever never buy an additional lens beyond the kit lens. And, those who do buy an additional lens usually buy a low cost, low margin nifty-fifty or something. So, the vast bulk of their use base isn't really the potential cash cow that Tony assumes. I have a Fuji XT-3 and I've bought three lenses for it in the last 3 months. I also have a Canon DSLR that takes beautiful photos and is four years-old. There's no way I'm buying a lens for the Canon even though it is great camera -- it seems like putting money in a time machine and sending it to the past. The one thing that seems clear to me (and I wish it wasn't) is that the Sony A7III is selling great. I'll take it further. The A7III is a break-out, industry-changing, decent camera that came at just the right moment to destroy the dominance of Canon and Nikon. A7III customers will be buying additional lenses for that device. That's just the perfect volume + likely to buy further into the ecosystem price point right now and that hurts so much given what Canon and Nikon had riding on their new mounts. I'm still using Fuji, though. Just love taking photos with it.
Maybe your recent lens purchases, three in three months, is more due to your transitioning to the new format. I've never been able to move past the dslr i bought 13 years ago, except a nifty-fifty, lol! I'd love to upgrade. That ol' d70...yup...still goes out with me most mornings. But I'm not trying to make money with it.
As others have said, including you guys, include camera stores like B&H and Adorama. I don't think most people who would buy a Panasonic S1, Nikon Z series or Canon R series would be jumping to Amazon to buy their cameras.
Most Rebel type buyers get a kit with a couple of lenses that cover most of the shooting range. Why would they consider buying better lens? They usually don't.
@Carpet Hooligan then they will look to more "upscale" cameras.... how many Rebel owners are walking around with Sigma ART or Canon L glass...
Chelsea: "Plus, Limewire came out!"
*Napster has left the chat.*
Chelsea never really adds much to the conversation
Haha!
Next……Plus Bittorrent came out….now LIMEWIRE HAS LEFT THE CHAT🤣🤣🤣
Smartphone sales have declined 5 quarters in a row, so smartphones are also taking a hit. We've pretty much plateaued technology-wise for cameras and smartphones, and many people are finding their current cameras and smartphones are good enough for a while. There is not much incentive for many consumers to upgrade their equipment.
plus prices of both keep going up. Why should I upgrade when I got what I want and its to expensive to do so or change over.
Smartphone cameras today take good pictures and are great for most casual pictures and they are handy, but they can't yet replace a DSLR, DSLM with good high quality interchangeable lenses or even a good P&S. There will always be a market for good cameras and lenses.
Stuart Hirsch this is something normal people don’t understand. They literally don’t see a point in a camera that isn’t in their phone lol.
@@MrAyybee2cold I definitely don't understand why I should spend thousands of dollars on camera and lens when my smartphone can take good enough photos (it's better than my 15-year-old DSLR in most situations). No one said that the smartphone can take better photos, but if you are not a professional or have a lot of money, in my opinion the smartphone is a better option for most people (and it can do more than just take photos).
K. C. Absolutely, the smart phone is enough phone for the average person that wants what used to be called that “Kodak Moment”. The candid shots that uses to cost for developing and printing are basically free on a phone. There was a translation period when people still printed on printers, now with most people just snapping candid shots for social media, the smart phone is good enough.
For the professional, a better dedicated camera body with lenses are important. I predict that one day, there will only be a few camera options, a smart phone and a higher end camera with nothing in between.
At the end of the day, if a DSLR has great dynamic range, quality focusing system, and so on, I see no problem with DSLRs. If the end results are what you need, it should not matter if it is mirrorless or a DLSR in my opinion.
so true..
I am a pro (7 years now) I never bought any camera from Amazon. I buy from B&H, Wexphotovideo, adorama, second hand sometimes...
Tony did mention that he is using Amazon because the publish their sales figures
If you can get sales numbers from B&H and other retailers you mentioned, please share them with the world, make a TH-cam video. I personally think the sales numbers Tony pulled from amazon are both relevant and the only set of numbers you can get from public domain that have any significance.
I believed B & H and Adorama sell cameras via Amazon too.
Hao Zheng I was just explaining my own experience, but I think you could look at best sellers on B&H by categories, it could be a small representation.
I tried once to buy a camera from Amazon UK, it didn't go well. Wex, Ebay, Currys/PC World and local shops are where I go for camera gear.
I especially bought a Sony Blu-Ray play as it could play my SACD of Dark Side Of The Moon.
I still have my Denon dvd/sacd player. not throwing it away.
@@officialMainspring I still have my Denon too but it didn't play the HiDef 5.1 version of Amused To Death so I had to spend $500 so I could listen to that disc.
Totally worth it.
bro，I even play vinyl record in my house. it brings me unique feeling of listening to music
A good way fritter and waste the hours in an offhand wayyyy
My dslr isn’t dead, it’s working as good as the day I bought it
Declaring DSLR cameras dead is a good thing because with camera manufacturers now shifting to mirrorless, fullframe DSLRs and APSC can finally be affordable. I see this as good news for beginners and professionals.
I bought a GH5 this year. i dont consider that a dead system.
Hey there fellow MFT user! :)
But isn’t that mirrorless.
The GH5 is king of video, but no one buys it for its stills performance.
Tool Craze Ok? First off, anecdotes are anecdotes. Similarly, I could tell you the story of how horrible the stills on a gh5 came out during my last concert shoot. That doesn’t tell you anything. Second, nowhere did I say it doesn’t take good photos, only that for the price, there are far better systems out there.
Tool Craze Reading comprehension isn’t one of your strong suits, is it?
While all of that is, no doubt, very true, I just bought a Nikon Z 6 last month as a birthday present to myself. It's the most fun camera I've ever owned!
Same thing I've heard about every Z6 user.
I can only agree, it brings back joy in photography and makes it possible to shoot high quality video. Ergonomics in buttons and menues is amazing.
The differences between mirrorless and DSLR are not strong enough for most people to make the switch. Image quality between a DSLR and mirrorless, is essentionaly the same. There are a couple of perceived advantages that mirrorless have over DSLR (OVF, fps and autofocus), but not compelling enouigh advantages for most confidently skillfull DSLR users invested in glass to switch. I see mirrorless cameras peaking soon on improving on the advantages that they have now, which still won't be enough to convince invested DSLR users to switch,... Besides improvements in what all cameras already do: The real question is what "New" things are mirrorless cameras going to do in the future? That will convince people to completely leave their DSLR behind...
Other than autofocus, mirrorless doesn't do anything I can't already accomplish with a DSLR.
Being able to use all my DSLR Canon glass on a mirrorless body makes it worth a try, which is why I bought a Canon EOS R.
Xio Kassay the a7 series has terrible autofocus in low light and sports. This is why all sports are being shot on DLSRs. If mirrorless was better, sports shooters would use them, but they don't.
Xio Kasay: Your comment is one of the best ones I've read. I couldn't agree with you more. Check out my comment.
@@JaredRibic Autofocus is the number one requirement, for years I have moaned about DSLR focus inconsistency, using my Sony its almost like cheating, I just laugh to myself as I do not get any misfocus images ( biggest issue is trying to sell my Nikon gear )
Thanks @@Ydkoll, I'm interested in checking out your comment. Are you aware of an easy way for me to locate it? Lol
I shot the fuji xt2, the sony a7rii and the OMD EM1 mark ii and I always came back to my 5d mark iv. Just the ease of use and reliability of canon is just awesome!
Not that I can afford it, but I wish the 5D had the same screen movement of my 80D.
I am having a fun time with my Canon 70D with 5 lenses to cover all my shooting needs.
which lens are these if you don't mind sharing?
I firmly believe the DSLR are slowly being walked down. Trust recognition and tech. Better glass really makes companies build a better technology platform.
And yes, Canon and Nikon will focus more on mirrorless to catch up. again, TRUST is the key. as soon as Pro photographers start trusting mirrorless bodies...DSLR's will become special. It's TECHNOLOGY.
It took 3rd gen smartphones @2011 and the consumer walked away and accelerating. Sony/Fuji are well into Gen3 ML so canikon may hang around with dslr but a solid Gen4 from Sony/Fuji in 2020 will force very rapid conversion to ML.
I own a D7200 and thinking about a D850 or D500 for my next camera.... DSLR arent going anywhere for a while :)
i love my d850 expensive but worth it ! im sure its going to last foverer too
Go d500....
Im in a similar boat. I currently have a d5300 with 4 f mount lenses.
To go mirrorless ,with the cost of new lenses is out of bounds financially.
So what do i do?
I upgrade,yes,but to an f mount Nikon.
The camera companies that not all customers can afford to spends several thousands at upgrade time.
Heres looking forward to my d850 next summer.
Or d750. Plenty good enough for me.
Thanks for the D500 recommendations, the reason I’m debating between the 2 is because I own some full frame lenses, with the high res of the D850 shooting in DX mode will give me a really close quality that the D500 offers which mean I can shoot DX or FX depending of the situation. Although the D500 is more of realistic price that I can afford at the moment.
Thanks for an interesting video Tony and Chelsea...just some thoughts...
- Mirrorless has only just 'started' to be a true replacement with Sony (Canon and Nikon's first atempt was premeture tech and not ready yet)
- Professional SLR vs Mirroless sales on Amazon seem to indicate professionals (higher value units) have switched to Mirrorless (Sony)
- Majority of 'higher value' lenses on Amazon are mirorless mounts (Sony again!)
- Seems Sony is winning the war currently and Canon and Nikon are lagging behind, perhaps once the next generation is ready it might help level the playing field a little and make it clear mirrorless is the future?
- Once A9 tech gets cheaper and into the entry level mirrorless camera's this should start to see the end of many of the lower/entry level SLR's I believe
@INTOtheVOID11 You shoot? Are you a professional? If so have you switched or not? what's so funny? around 4 years when we tried out the A7Rii in our studio at photography events and meetups we were the only one shooting mirrorless... fast forward to today... there are significantly more people shooting Sony that I've seen! Also Sales data indicates there is very few sales on the higher end SLR gear compared to the uptake on mirrorless so I'm not too sure why you are 'LOL' Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all professionals are switching I"m just saying professionals are starting to switch to mirrorless now as it's only 'becoming' more mature now... Even our A7riii is still not perfect but it kept up with just about most SLR's and the A9 is beating most SLR's out there already so what I'm saying is the next generation of mirrorless I believe is going to kill SRL's as the old advantages such as battery life, fast focus and more importantly accurate focus at a decent FPS are all essentially been fixed with the A9 and the future of mirrorless is looking good... if you are a professional I'm keen to know what you find wrong about this statement and what you disagree about? I'm also keen to hear your opinion/side...
You forgot to mention the advantages of dslrs. A lot of people forget that what is best for them may not be for everyone. I prefer a bigger and slighty heavier camera over a smaller one, it feels more comfy and I shake a lot less with a bigger dslr and I am not the only one. Also I like the optical viewfinder and an evf can damage your eye over time when you spend hours shooting everyday. I start to feel dizzy after a day with an efv and again Im not the only one. Everyone has their preferences so buy what you like. Im looking to upgrade and am looking for the canon 1d series theres no doubt thats what I want.
I noticed that the more I buried my head in these statistics, the less I was thinking about taking pictures. It's good info but it's an unhealthy distraction for an Artist. Just pick up your camera and go take pictures. 📸
Yes. It good info to know that a dslr is bad.
So is sport and playing video games...
Aujah One Sak My guess is you guys just aren’t that creative if a TH-cam video kills it...
As long as the prices of Canon/Nikon DSLR's cameras /lenses continue with the current prices, Sony market will continue to grow as their technology is much better today.
See their APC's camera keep improving (a6400) and FF are superb.
Buttom line: Sony giving the best value for money today!
Sony doesn't give value over Nikon and Canon. Sony holds back what people want and is laughed at by professionals.
@@cowboys5group444 laughed at by professionals? Is that why the A9 is objectively better than the D5 and 1Dx Mark II in terms of image quality, autofocus, and shooting speed? And their lenses autofocus faster and more accurately, plus they're sharper. Have you seen the 400mm f2.8?
@@cowboys5group444 "laughed at by professionals" this isn't the days of the original a7 and the SLT series cameras. Sony's stuff is great now. I just swtiched from the original a7s to the xt3 but only cause my a7s is breaking down after 5 plus years of heavy use and (mainly) water damage
2000 Dollar cameras will never replace 400 dollar cameras with consumers.
True. Unless I see a sub $1000 mirrorless that isn't a complete shitbox, I'm not convinced. Looking at the $ony 6000 series, I don't think much technology will leak down from the flagships in the observable future.
Yess but you can still grap the original a7 new for less and less money.
a new 650 euro a7 (or a new 800 euro a7r) is not that much worse then an a7iii
@@davidstremmelaar5819 I'd go further than that and suggest that and suggest that the old faithful original a6000 is still on the market for a reason. Tech-wise it might not be very compelling to us, but it's very cheap and actually a very capable device considering that (at least in the UK where I live) I see them on sale for around £350 making it a worthwhile beginner's camera with a solid upgrade path. Arguably, neither Cannon or Nikon have a camera on the market that can be bought from New at that price that's as capable.
Of course, if a teenager approached me for a recommendation, I probably wouldn't advise then to buy new for a first camera (get an old T3i off eBay for £75 and you'll be pretty content for a while) but parents supporting their hobby, or older people just getting into it will feel pretty well served.
And hey, I took photos of gigs and theatre for years on an a6000, along with a bit of portraiture. It might not have the bells and whistles, but it'll do the job.
@@StrikeFromTheSkies did you ever heard about Micro-Four-Thirds !??
@@2406ab totally, but with sensor size being the marketing battleground of the moment I think that people are starting to get more cautious any M4/3.
Then again, a lot of beginner's just see a compact "proper camera" with interchangeable lenses at a low price, I met a guy not long ago who bought an entry level Olympus specifically for astro photography and who was really pleased with it. Unexpected things do happen.
I do think the upgrade path hurts people a bit though; the higher end M4/3 bodies are just fighting a losing battle against larger sensors right now.
I pretty much agree. I hope that Nikon survives as a long-time Nikon user. I am sitting on the fence as far as the Z mount goes. I also expect MFT to survive but with a focus on video with niche players like Blackmagic and with Olympus persevering with cameras more suited to still photography.
Good video. Thanks.
You have some really interesting perspectives on the future for camera brands and their various mounts. But I really hope that your wrong about M43, because we deserve such a good alternative to full frame. I have both, but I find myself grabbing the M43 gear for hobby use. I'm so tired of lugging around heavy gear at work, and I'm amazed what kind of quality I'm able to get from that little sensor. I love those tiny prime lenses that are sharp all the way to F:1.8. Their weight is next to nothing, they cost less and they perform well. My favorites now are these Olympus lenses: 1.8/75mm, 2/12mm and 4/12-100mm. And I also love my super fast Panasonic G9. And because these lenses are quite fast I can keep ISO low and quality high. And I have used a lot of top class full frames, like Canon 1DxMk2, Canon R, Sony A9, A7iii. They are all super good, but the glass is so heavy (and the 1DxMk2). So for you people doing photography for fun, it's really nice to carry a very small bag with lenses from (35mm equiv.) 18 to 600 mm that fulfills all your needs, even nice bokeh.
Precisely. Ideal travel camera, often "amphibious" - great photo AND video capabilities, light, weatherproof. My no. 1 for any outdoor job.
Basically I rarely use any high ISO values. One of the photographer's jobs is controlling the light conditions.
20 Mpix M43 sensor is better than 10+ years old 10 Mpix APS-C sensor of my Pentax K10D.
When shooting films, M43/Super16 sensors are larger than 1" sensors of most of pro grade video cameras. Super 35 sensor is the APS-C equivalent. Alexa Mini or Amira are S35 but using much lower pixel density than photographic sensors is what makes them to be superb in low light (similarly Lumix GH5s or BMPCC with M43/Super 16). For some shots, even using S35 is impossible or difficult taking into account large size of the camera and accessories.
I like this analysis, because it's based on real data and not just personal preferences. Canon and Nikon especially are in a REALLY tricky situation right now.
youuuuuuuuuuutube what I find interesting is that Canon basically just copied a bunch of their existing lenses and made them mirrorless. I wonder if they actually spent a lot of money developing them or if they just reverse engineered what they had cheaply. Nikon didn’t invest too much in the Z mount, hence the poor quality lenses with a high price tag. And Canon also raises the prices significantly on theirs. I would also agree with Tony that Sony and Fuji are poised to keep growing.
@@danielcrotty8697 Are you sure they just copied lenses? Sounds like they made higher quality versions, for example the 85mm 1.2 has this new "Blue Spectrum Refractive" technology, the problem is that they're also incredibly expensive. They might have convinced more people to buy into the R system with cheaper lenses.
@@danielcrotty8697 That is complete nonsense. Canon's RF lenses are designed specifically for the shorter flange back distance of the RF mount, so there is no way they could be reverse engineered from existing EF designs.
Nikon has invested heavily in the Z mount, and the current lenses for it are optically spectacular; the primes are near Otus levels for 1/6th the price, 1/3rd the weight and with autofocus, so how is that overpriced?
It's amazing that Tony can spend all of this time and energy accumulating data, but at the same time be unaware that Nikon has been very clear that they are not abandoning developing new DSLR's and F-mount lenses. They've been practically shouting that from the rooftops.
@@aceflibble Maybe you missed the releases of the 180-400mm and the 500mm PF. Also the pretty reliable signs that a D6 and a D750 replacement are coming. Not the actions of a company "just saying" they are going to support F-mount.
@Дуотт Даэнур Except Nikon IS releasing new F lenses and bodies
@@aceflibble The 600PF is already in NPS hands and should be released this summer. So if Tony is saying that if Nikon goes full-bore into mirrorless and doesn't continue to support DSLR, they will go out of business. Are you then basically saying they are willingly going to go out of business? I really can't see that happening.
Ok, well then both Tony and I disagree with you. I’m comfortable with that.
Paw patrol
There's a big flaw with all this data and that's the focus on FF. I can see the smaller sensor cameras gaining market share just because of the overall value vs. the FF premium.
Most of the formats in the upper half of the top-16 list were cropped.
"I just like a good old-fashioned record player" And what do you see now when you walk into the music shops? Vinyl. It's back. It wouldn't be getting the shelf space if people weren't buying it.
Not necessarily, it's just that CD sales are becoming more and more comparable to vinyl. Physical music media is becoming more of a niche and yes, it's not dead but like it or not, it's getting replaced by streaming and downloads in the mainstream market. Same with cameras. Sad but true.
Met a Pulitzer-winning photojournalist on a trip recently who says EVF's are still not good enough and his eyes quickly tire when watching a screen rather than looking at the world through a lens, so not an option for pro work. Made me feel like a hobbyist with my Fuji.
...and he was 70 yo. :) But jokes aside, i switched from 5d Mk3 to Sony A7R3 in december last year (yes it was a pain to ditch those great Canon lenses after so many years), but a couple of month was enough to me to stop looking into a small hole when taking pictures. I don't use the EVF at all now. It is so easier to look at the backscreen and more convenient to use both my eyes. It's bright enough, works great even in direct sunlight (it's much brighter then the screen on the "basic" A73, or any of my previous Canon bodies), refresh rate is more than enough, lag is barely noticable. EVF is far from replacing OVF, but right now i'm not even sure if it has to. I really enjoy using my camera this way and the quality of the backscreen will be a key point in my future investments.
If Tony was a DA or Federal prosecutor, we would all be in jail! His fact-finding is legit!
🤣🤣🤣 what shady activity are you into?
I know .. I tried to come up with the same list and i can't. So cited sources would already help .. Plus, the latest camera to come out was tye x-t3 i believe. So to be fair you would have to compare sales as of that date.. I liked his lighting videos but so far in the 10 minutes i watched on this one(will finish tonight), i am not impressed. And nikon d5300 shows up twice on his top 16 which they probably meant nikon d3500 but hey..
Very interesting discussion. I’ll throw my 2 cents in. I tried a mirrorless and despite the obivious and many advantages I just do not like the EVF. I want to like it but I just don’t.
I just did my yearly walkthrough of B&H, tried every body under $1500. I was surprised, the two standouts for me were the D750 and 6Dii in every way. I had gone in thinking I’d probably be coming home with a mirrorless.
I sold my 80D to buy the X100F nine months ago, and somewhat regret it.
finally someone mentions EXISTING BODIES rather than sales. the dslr sales numbers are a red herring because people are holding onto their bodies and buying used more than before because dslr quality has plateaud compared to the early 2000s
Pentax and Olympus long ago figured out how to survive and thrive as niche players in the camera market. When was the last time Pentax cameras outsold Canon cameras, 1976? So if market share alone were determinative, Pentax would have folded up shop in the early 1990s. Same goes for Olympus. Same goes for Fujifilm.
Pentax is the Canada Dry of the camera world. Olympus is the Dr. Pepper. Sure, there are much bigger competitors in the marketplace. Sure, there are 10 flavors of Diet Coke (and 10 flavors of Canon lens mounts), but niche companies aren't going away anytime soon.
Apparently the imaging division of Ricoh is profitable. Of which Pentax is a part, along with what seems the very successful Ricoh GR series. Nope, Pentax is not going anywhere soon it would seem.
Yep. This is what happens in shrinking markets. Canon and Nikon are playing catch-up with Sony. They are selling fewer cameras in total and even their new mirrorless designs are not selling close to their own estimates. Like Tony said, when the money is in lenses, why invest in a mount that is small to begin with and declining.
You mention Pentax and Olympus, and I agree that they have their niches. Pentax in particular has a great advantage in the K mount. It has been around forever and requires no investment. Read that again. NO investment. Tony says it will die but not that long ago he rated the K-1 as the best landscape camera on the market. I just looked at one and hmmm, Pentax is making no investment in the multi-format movie space. The K-1 will make movies but just enough, again NO investment needed. But what I did notice were the strange little touches Pentax is famous for. Lights to help see the lens mount and card slots in the dark. A very cool GPS integration. Astro-tracking/tracing whatever that is, large easy to use by feel control wheels and to my surprise, the ability to make the rear LCD display in night vision red. What does this mean? With NO investment Pentax has found a place with astro photographers. Maybe not a large niche, but I'll bet one that will sustain the brand. Finally I looked at the wild price reductions from Canon and Nikon as they try to buy share from Sony, which I think is a losing proposition. Then I looked at the price of a K-1. Hmmm just down about $100 from its launch price maybe 3 years ago? It's only new release was the 50mm f/1.4 which I imagine is a lens the astro boys were very happy to see. A low investment product on a NO investment mount. So the Ricoh/Pentax guy who made that outlandish statement may be dead on. When all the dust has settled maybe the remaining players will be Sony, Olympus and Pentax.
Do you and Jared call each other before posting.......
Agreed. I saw Jared's first. And on the side was this one. This is just way more detailed. LOL
Jared is really Tony in disguise (just kidding) 🤔
LOL no but we do talk occasionally. I didn't know he did a video on the same topic.
@@TonyAndChelsea 🤔
Very interesting video as always. After 25 years with Canon im now a Sony mirrorless guy and couldn't be happier :-)
Yes. My dslr is collecting dust. I will give it a proper burial soon.
I am a recent convert to the Nikon Z6. I come from the D1, D2, D2X, and D4 (I also have a D7000) and a plethora of F-mount lenses. I weighed buying a new D850 vs. the Z6, and landed on the Z with the F-mount adapter - couldn't be happier. So although I agree Nikon could be a sinking ship financially, I believe the future is in mirrorless cameras.
I manage a 55,000 sq/ft studio for a fortune 100 manufacturer of construction and ag machinery. And after much research, we believe the transition to mirrorless is inevitable, for all of the obvious reasons. Simply don't see the need for a mirror flopping around inside the camera body - one more thing to break or slow things down. And with the lens adapters as we transition (and no image quality degradation), looking forward, we are betting on mirrorless .
@@dzevadbayraktar322 Hi David, I appreciate the reply, but have you actually used a Z-mound camera? I don't find them to be awkward to hold or unproportional. It's a bit of a different feel, but nothing that bothers me - even with the adapter and my 70-200 mounted. And the image quality of both still and video are amazing. I'm totally diggin' this rig!
I think all new interchangeable lens camera buyers will go for a mirror less system. There are so many advantages for video and stills. They just have to make a better mirror less camera for the same or a lower price and people will slowly make the transition. I am using a Canon R for TH-cam now and am forced to use EF lenses because the RF lenses are so expensive. I think once affordable lenses are available, more people will jump on board with the new mirror less systems. For now, it;s not just the price of the body, it's the lenses you need to buy, that kills the deal for most people.
But you're using your EF lenses on it, right? And they work correctly, yes? Canon is basically giving the adapter away with the camera for just that reason.
the adapters are pretty much being given out for free, what are you on about?
Sadly, I am already committed to Nikon, and Nikon's Z-adapter is NOT free. Still, I am using a Z50 and am very happy with it. Because I have a lot of Nikon lenses - and bought a new one that is F-mount - I am glad I spent the money on the adapter.
Mines work perfectly and will continue so till I'll be dead, so I honestly don't even bother about mirrorless cameras.
This kind of video again Tony. 😊
Is this dead? Is that dead? Is x dying? Is y gonna die out?
Yes. Everything dies eventually. Everything have a beginning, a middle and an end.
Even mirrorless 😱🤫
babylon4953 right!?! Why are we beating this horse again? We get it, you’ve established your opinion on the future of photography and need not bombard us with data to validate that opinion. We aren’t investors in canon and Nikon. Invested in the systems; yes, and there is definitely something to be said for that aspect of the conversation. But this is dragging it out. Content has to be made, but think outside the box Tony and or Chelsea
@@yourmommashouse, believe it or not, the channel actually does get new viewers all the time.
Hong Kong Phooey yes and the black hole in the center of the Milkyway will just expand and swallow the whole galaxy. (our sun isn't big enough to become a super nova btw) Including our sun, by then a white dwarf. (who knew astrology could be so racist, right?)
So let's just all lay down and wait to die.
"X is dying" seems to be the winner in views these days.
I really feel that Nikon HAS to release an APS-C (DX) level Z series consumer / Pro-Sumer camera that people can grow into . They need an update path like Sony has to make it in the long run.
They are, it's called the Z50.
calling the micro 4/3 mount as going to die is foolish, it may not have a huge photo following but it has a huge video market, especially with the blackmagic pocket cinema camera 4k and the Panasonic GH5
Stagecoaches aren't going anywhere. Cars are too expensive. The wood of the stagecoach is more natural to my eye than this cold metal. And the range of the cars is lower. With my horses I can travel for days on end without looking for a pump.
If you want to make this comparison work, cars become cheaper than stagecoaches.
... and the gas pump simply becomes a water pump. Throw in the cost of feed and new “shoes” 😊
Mirrorless are not cars. They are just smaller stagecoaches.
Tony predicted the bankruptcy of his employer. Bet that made him really popular in the boardroom. ;-)
Most of the Canon owners have a cheap DSLR with a kit lens and will never by new lenses.
Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM, dirt cheap
if your going to use a chart, identify red and green lines someplace
He gave you enough verbal cues to know what they were showing.
Usually when a new technology comes out, it takes time for it to catch up and even overtake the existing tech. I remember when digital cameras hit the market? Many people said digital cameras will not be as good as film. I remember a buddy saying, he'll never go digital. I believe even he has. Mirrorless has been slowly but surely catching up with DSLR.
The problem is you only remember the winners. The losing new tech never reaches the public. That's why Tony's point about DVD audio is a great one. It's not really possible to say if something will overtake or if it's a gimmick. Nobody knows.
@@CanditoTrainingHQ I see your point. I am mainly thinking of Mirrorless cameras. which isn't like to say DCC, DAT, or Laserdisc. I remember as a kid Kodak disc cameras. Ya, that didn't do too well. I have a Z6 and I like it. It does have advantages & disadvantages to DSLR. My D5200 is faster with moving subjects but the Z6 kills it in low light.
I think Tony is right. Thanks for an other good video. Love to watch you two!
Your assumptions are on a linear acceptance rate, which is a false assumption. When Nikon and Canon put actual, professional mirrorless bodies out, their R, RP, Z6-7 will be purchased more. Also, as native trinity glass is produced for both systems, there will be a greater number that transition. Love you guys, but success isn't linear, and neither will sales for mirrorless.
I second this. it won't be linear for sure. ppl buying MILC from Nikon & Canon now are kinda early adopters. when the shift actually happens DSLRs sales will plummet.
Exactly, when 2nd gen Canikon mirrorless cameras, with all the kinks ironed out, hit the market then adoption rates will increase exponentially.
Also, it is much harder to convince an existing DSLR user to buy new lenses than it is to convince a new mirrorless user who presumably want to take advantage of mirrorless mounts for lenses. So Tony's assessment of the potential new lens buyer market is completely wrong.
@@mikhaillastname8719 Before the Sony A9 and A7iii Tony still didn't even like Sony... because there wasn't enough native glass at that time. I like these two, but maybe it's time to get out of his own head. He clearly worked to defend that he knew what he was talking about, but left out some really key factors and strictly made assumptions based on one sales stream.
@@Bayonet1809 bingo. That's why Canon & Nikon didn't release "Pro" bodies first. Without the native Glass to support the system there was no point. Until Sony's most recent body releases of the A9 and A7s, that finally have two card slots and the glass to support them, people still questioned the future of mirrorless including Tony. That is why Chelsea bought the D850. Some short memories on this episode.
@@Bayonet1809 I do agreee about the Canon M line up though. That one doesn't look like it's going anywhere. We will see. Who knows, maybe Canon is paying someone to figure that out.
I noticed the same thing they did during my recent trip to Japan. Most of people that used actual camera were using some form of DSLR. Not Mirrorless.
And small mirrorless cameras are supposed to be more popular in Asia too.
Great video, but I disagree. The adapters work just fine for the Canon and Nikon mirrorless cameras and their old lenses.
They’ll likely pull the mirrors out, and start releasing more products, but on fewer platforms. Much like Sony and Subaru, to save money they’ll unify their platforms, but diversify internal differences to make for different models. People will be using their adapter Canon and Nikon glass long after I’m dead and gone, but I would be shocked if Nikon or Canon released a camera with a mirror later than 2-3 years from now.
Additionally, follow the money. Since, as you mentioned, the real money is in lenses, by releasing a new mount with new lenses and cameras, it allows them to get their cash cow customers, of which there are many, to totally buy all their gear all over again. They know they won’t ever sell as well (hence the crazy prices), but it’s financially in their best interest to come out with the new and shinies.
SwitchRich I think manufacturers know this about the average APS-C users, which is why they’re pushing hard into the full frame/medium format range right now. That’s where the people with money spend it.
DSLR are like ICE (intnernal combustion engine) mirrorless are like EVs, ice are on the late stage of it's development while on EVs are on it's early stage. DSLR has very little space to improve mirrorless has the future or even the smartphone cams ( already seen a phone shooting 8k)
Being in the situation of being confused on what to buy right now as my first DSLR, I'm tempted to go with something like a Canon D80 which has virtually everything I need to learn on, it's not too expensive unlike the current crop of Mirrorless like Sony, Panasonic and Olympus and their lenses are fairly expensive as well.....like most newish tech on the market, once theres a lot more models, tech flows down through the lower priced models and they get cheaper over time. I already have a mirrorless phone camera and a slightly older Mirrorless Fujifilm 6800s zoom bridge camera that I can use....so don't really crave more...I can cope with a mirror flapping about a bit as I rarely do action photos anyway. Great video Tony & Chelsea..thankyou.
As long as the camera companies can make $$ selling DSLRs they will continue to produce them.
Dslr is not dead until the image quality declines. I have yet to have a client look at my portfolio and ask "Are these taken with a mirrorless camera?".
@Дуотт Даэнур The problem is most of the people caught in this spec war are video guys. Us photo guys would much prefer to just ditch the video crap and go back to the good old days when a photo camera didnt have to have video features to be relevant
Tony, you definitely know your Product Marketing. Sure you'll get a whole bunch of non-fan mail, but it is what it is.
My D850 is still working; just checked
and it will for a long time. Just bought one as my pro/con resulted for me it's better than the Z7.
should i replace my d750 with z6?
I just finished up on a 2 week holiday travelling around tourist hot spots in Australia. I watch the analytical videos that T&C and others had put up and it puts me on the lookout for what cameras everyone was using.
I can tell you the following from my holiday:
A. When I saw an elderly caucasian person with a camera (I define elderly as 50 years old or older) 10/10 times they had a DSLR hanging around their neck.
B. When I saw an elderly Asian person with a camera, roughly half the time they had a DSLR and half the time they had a mirror less camera. And I NEVER saw a Nikon mirroreless in anyone's hands. It was almost always a Sony mirrorless.
C. When there were younger Caucasian or younger Asian human beings, they almost always had mirroreless cameras, not DSLRs. Again almost all were Sony and I never saw a Nikon mirrorless.
Note, the above comments refer to those who had interchangeable lens cameras.
When looking at all cameras, most people simply used their smart phones, second was ILC and third was gopro.
The elderly caucasian people do not seem to use smart phones for photos, rather they were consistently using an ILC and they were always using a DSLR ILC.
My question :
Are elderly retiress propping up the DSLR sales? Do they know mirrorless exist? They don't seem to know their smartphone exists.
Tony can you dig up age group and ethnic data for those camera sales? There's always more to the story than overall trends.
Interesting insight, thanks !
Aged 66, use Sony Nex 7 and Sony xa1 mobile phone. Resisted getting a 35mm until 1993 when I got a Minolta 7Xi and by 2005 had a small collection of 35mm cameras to pick from. From 1970 until 2003 I mostly used subminiature film cameras when no one every had a camera with them except for special occassions. Used 35mm film until around 2009. Got a Sony Nex 5a in July 2010; as an upgrade to the camcorder 6mp Sony HDR-HC7E. I only know of one DSLR camera user. A couple of friends have compact point and shoot digital camera but half of them only use their iPhone or Android phone cameras. Outside of professional use I would guess than 90% of people's interest and needs for taking stills or videos are covered by camera phones and unlike cameras the phone is with them nearly all the time. Of the tourists I see in the UK many seem to prefer to use their mobile phone for photography even if they also have a camera (digital compact , bridge, mirrorless or DSLR) around their necks.
15 years ago many thought that most camera companies would disappear. Some, like Leica who manufacture in very small numbers might continue with specialist equipment but mass produced models would disappear. Minolta, who got awards for the best camera of the century in the Vectis S1 sold out to Sony and Konica and Minolta disappeared. The number of companies and range of models seems higher than ever although the choices of significant differences in new models are smaller .
Do professional phhotographers really buy their gear on Amazon ? I don't think so ... But amateurs do ! And they represent the main part of high quality cameras like APSC sensors ...
It would be great to see all this in the full frame market and what professionals will be chosing in the future :)
Amazon sales figures are not a good indicator. No-one would buy a high end camera without checking it hands on first - and that would be in a store; and professionals probably have a relationship with a store where they buy their gear. I cant imagine any pro buying his gear on Amazon, and the good stores would probably price match Amazon anyway.
@@chrissimpson9981 This. I don't buy anything but minor accessories and the odd hard-to-get lens online. The guys at the local shop know me and my needs. That counts for a hell of a lot.
If the price is right I don’t care where I buy, most sales people are not top photographers. I normally know what I want, internet sites help.
About how many pro - users did you speak? There are so many people outthere who are selling the stuff without to get money for their pictures! They feel like professional users, but they aren't. This is the market for the big companies, the pros are just a much smaller group with very special interest in technical gear.
I have seen a group of 15 - 20 doctors on a private date at a winery just to relax. Everyone of them had a top dslr with extreme expensive lenses on it. I could count how many pictures are made: 0 !
But it was nice to see the cams in their cars... Porsche/Ferrari/Jaguar...
You know what I mean? Too much people with too much money...
And such people will buy at Amazon...or their secretaries ;-)
Fuji had been in trouble when film died and they learnt there lesson.
May be some big camera companies may go through what fuji did when film died .
And what is that, make skincare products and makeup?
"when film died" lol... I just bought some Kodak Ultramax that is now sitting in my fridge. Also Ive shot two rolls of medium format film in the last year, seems fine to me.
Just because everyone buys phones with camera's doesn't mean camera's on their own are dead. It just says people buy phones with camera's. DSLR's will stay for a while longer, probably for another 100 years. Also misinformation doesn't mean the phone addicts are right, phones are phones regardless of what toy they add. They will never be as good and personally I wouldn't call someone using a phone a pro photographer at any level. I call them misguided fools trying to feel special while there is no thing special thing to what they do.
Also the misguided idea of really needing the latest and the best doesn't make your work better, it's the skills and knowledge that you build up over the years that make the real difference. Giving a starter a top of the line body and lenses doesn't instantly make that person a pro, all they do is have some lucky shots with the camera where the camera actually does the heavy lifting as it was designed to do. I'd like to put out a challenge to everyone that has the financial means to do this and having high end camera's:
Buy yourself some cheap camera's that are no more then 100 USD, yes the cheap toy things pretty much. Now go out there and make some photo's, without editing them right away you should check the difference and also check whether your photo's still look as good as your usual work. You will be surprised for the results.
Dedicated compact cameras are more or less dead due to how great the cameras on phones are getting.
@@ZeldagigafanMatthew In both cases I wouldn't call it photography, compact camera's are for tourists and the common family photo's while a phone remains a phone, no matter how shiny the paint job or good the camera is.
Curious why Nikon D5300 showed twice (at number 4 & number 16) on the top 16 cameras being sold? Was 16 supposed to be D3300?
Thanks a tonne both of you for stating the fact from a photographer pov..
My current strategy : 1. Buy more L lenses cause they are reliable . 2. Invest on Learning, Marketing to get more paying clients and lighting equipments. 3. Buy backup lenses and bodies 4. Finally go for exotic lenses 🥳☺️ Lenses are gonna stay 💞, bodies will come and go away.
Fascinating discussion and analysis. Thank you for sharing (I don't shoot the messenger -- as.a former journalist, I used to be one of those messengers who was used for target practice).
I think it would be interesting in a couple of years if you would re-examine the numbers again to see how closely today's projections reflect reality.
I won't even count in any statistic since I only buy vintage Nikkor lenses.
nikon can be adapted to anything accept pentax,
i feel the same way.
I have quite a few vintage Nikkor lenses for sale
@@OttoBerrg I think I already have the few AI lenses I'll ever need which are the: 28mm f3.5; 50mm f1.4; 135mm f2.8; 80-200mm f4.5.
But out of curiosity, What are you selling?
@@davidstremmelaar5819 That's what I love most. Hence, why I'm saving up for an X-T3.
I do remember Tony said EOS RP will be the best selling full frame camera in 2019
2019 is not over yet, come back in january to see what full frame camera sold the most :)
did he actually say that? theres literally no glass cheaper than the camera itself yet LOL
He also said that the manufactures could make a fullframe mirrorless for a few hundred dollars. Maybe they could, but they will not.
@@gelisob I will be 90% sure that it will be A7III
@@typoded Tony said that in his EOS RP review.
He helped creating the "cheapest full frame" mirrorless camera hype, which is dead by now as we all know.
I have a Canon 1DX with a large range of lenses. I certainly will not be changing to a mirrorless camera.
What about several years from now when the 1DX dies, and the new mirrorless of the day has several times the resolution and two stops more DR-oh, and *you can seamlessly use every one of your existing lenses* because every single one of these cameras pretty much comes with Canon's own factory EF adapter-oops, one of the three different models of adapters they offer.
@@Bolton115 don't be a chach
That's probably just fine for a couple of years at least. But eventually you may have to, if your competitors are enjoying things like a full stop faster performance on their mirrorless lenses, more consistent AF tracking, etc, due to the newer tech.
DSLRs have conplicated mechanical moving parts and can fail or malfunction at any given instance. And you need to be very careful in handling them. Mirrorless its enemies are dust and over all climate
In a different very informative episode, you correctly pointed out how much the job market for photographers is changing. You stated there that one of the best ways to escape this downward trend is to develop one's skills in multiple areas, namely photo and video. If we look at video specs, mirrorless cameras are already outperforming DSLRs by a considerable margin. If we add the advantages of advanced object tracking, I am tempted to believe that this technological shift might significantly shorten camera replacement cycles because professional photographers will need to switch to mirrorless just to stay in business. While the DSLR base is huge currently, I would argue it will shrink a lot faster, especially in the face of a more competitive job market.
Now, you already announced M4/3 dead, you now also put the L mount on the list of "endangered" species. Can both be true at the same time? This would leave Panasonic without any mount. Also, the L mount is backed by 3 well-respected companies which is unique in the camera industry to date.
As always, big thanks for the high quality content from you. I am looking forward a lot to your in-depth reviews of the Fujifilm X-T3 and GFX100.
Pro photographers have influence, but their purchases do not in and of themselves drive the market. We are what? 5% of an already shrinking market?
A better analogy would have been VHS vs Betamax... Betamax was indubitably "better" but it lost to cheaper, more available, etc.
reminds me of my first mp3 player. It had - I kid you not - 8MB space for your music and no way to add external storage. So you could have about 2 songs in decent quality on that thing.
They got kicked out of the market by minidisc player at that time.
Couple of years later, better mp3 player entered the market and overtook everything else, including first Ipad and so on, the rest is history.
VHS had better audio and Beta had better video.
VHS won thanks to the porn industry.
Nicholas Kellingley Sony clung to their Betamax for a long time. What really sunk Betamax is that Sony was insiting on royalties to use their system, and the other manufacturers were not having a bar of that.
We're not even mentioning the most important factor here, which is the average age of camera users... It's a rapidly ageing market and unless something changes, Canon and Nikon will die with their current DSLR userbase. These 40 to 80 year olds won't prop up the industry forever.
Kids are basically getting into photography via smartphones nowadays, so we need to make their progression to 'real' cameras seamless... I.e a sub $1000 android powered camera. But giant DSLR's with flappy mirrors seem like antiques to young people. That's a huge problem! There are simply no new buyers.
Sony have now merged their smartphone and imaging departments are that is a massive positive and an encouraging sign that Sony "get it". Unless others follow suit they're all dead within 6 years.
Say what you like about Sony but they're the only manufacturer who isn't in total denial.
Sadly it is the reluctance of stubborn DSLR owners to switch to mirrorless which is ultimately killing the industry.
Young people don't have thousands to spend on camera gear so a $10k medium format camera aimed at people over 40 is not the move. The industry is so short-termist, arrogant and elitist in its approach to new gear it's laughable.
Anyway, sorry for the essay... I didn't realise what a complex issue this was until I started typing! Haha
In the film days there was camera progression from point-n-shoots to 35mm range finders to DSLRs to medium format cameras. The price points made moving up more reasonable as one's interests matured. Now it is phone to DSLR/mirrorless with very few rangefinder type cameras around. What I see at events is phones or DSLRs and nothing in between. There is big jump from essentially a free camera in the phone to $500+ kit to with a DSLR. No one seems to use about $150 - $250 rangefinder now. This will create a migration problem as those who get into photography have spend serious money up front with no intermediate step (or stopping point).
Thank you for bringing this up! It didn't even occur to me.
The real comparison here is HDTV. It took HDTV over 20 year to replace standard definition TV because it required a change/upgrade in hardware. The bottom line is that mirror-less will get here but it is going to take time.
DDJ
Probably the best parallel I've heard so far. Very related.
I’ve been a long time Nikon DSLR shooter and I have recently made the plunge into mirrorless. What prompted me to do so were the rave reviews on the Nikon Z mount new lenses and their excellent optical capabilities that were, as a new line of lenses, optically above and beyond the very mature line of Nikon F mount lenses (I’m a high cropper and thus a sharpness addict).
I looked long and hard at the Nikon Z7 and the Sony a7R3, shooting with each of them for a few hours. I did not look at the canon mirrorless because I wanted a 40+ megapixel sensor.
In the end I purchased the Z7, because I absolutely loved it’s ergonomics, including the touchscreen capabilities to very quickly control the camera. Yes, the Sony’s focus tracking capabilities were superior to the Z7, but that was not enough for me to tilt the balance, the way I shoot.
What I really love about the Z7, with which I’ve already shot several thousand images, other than the excellent optical quality of the lenses, is the great electronic viewfinder-It’s super usable in both lowlight and direct sun conditions. Also, the ability to adjust exposure on the fly and see what your shot is going to look like is simply priceless to me. The ability to look at the live histogram and see how much clipping you’re going to get is also super useful.
Do I think DSLR’s are dead? Well as long as Nikon DSLRs have better focus tracking than their mirrorless models, DSLRs will survive, and the impending arrival of the Nikon D6 thus makes sense. In my view, once that hurdle is crossed, there won’t be any turning back. There’s just no reason to stick to DSLRs in the long run. In the short run of course if you have a lot invested in DSLR lenses, and are loathe to use an adapter, and are happy with the image sharpness you are getting, then it makes sense to stick to DSLR’s for a while longer.
Everyone should listen to Tony and ditch their MFT equipment now. Sell to KEH or B&H so I can spot those new sweet deals.
If you think Tony is "full of it"... dump your F mount equipment in those same places so I can reluctantly save cash when I remain in the past...
Thanks in advance!
Well I would never sell old lenses since they can all be adapted to mirrorless cameras
Sounds like you didn't even watch the video. Whoever listens to the advice given here would certainly not ditch their F mount gear.
Man you two and the Fro are just in another level. Thanks for this!
PS: A true thank you for not being part of the advertising mordor army of the recent new tripod :)
Tony's flabbergasted comment about how expensive that tipod was at the end of his review was perfect!
@@GeraldBertramPhotography oh yes!
Canon just released their new 70-200 f2.8 III so i think that Canon are still backing the DSLR !
@@TimHuhtala i have the mark 2 and love it , the 3 would be sweet !
Jon Snow is not dead... And I think even 1% of a massive, active and growing mirrorless market is still profitable enough to make a few new lenses. Fast nickle versus slow dime. :)
I'm a banker and a photographer and I can listen to Tony talk for ages about photography AND business. Damn :/
DSLRs will be around for years, but like DVD players, the technology will stop advancing and become much cheaper. But like film and records, most things stick around as long as the people who use them are around. But mirrorless is the future.
Yes agree! Folks like nostalgia.
You can still buy a new Nikon F6. I do think that many if not most of the new technology fgoing into cameras will be computational and AI based, and leave behind DSLRs over the next 5-10 years.
I still think you are wrong about m43. You are discounting a huge segment than isn’t interested in heavy and big gear.
I hope you're right. I hope that some sort of sensor breakthrough that favors m43 comes out, like organic sensors.
Or 1 inch fixed lens camera's
With their fast zooms performance is close to a compact m43 set-up excluding primes of course.
No! The m43 segment isn’t served by cell phones. That’s absurd! 20mp is not a liability of the m43 system either. I’m a amateur not a pro, and I simply enjoy my hobby. Photography isn’t all about pixels count, dynamic range, and bokeh it’s about the imagination and artistic capabilities of the photographer. In most cases raw file against raw file most would not perceive a consequential difference. I love the gear head talk, because I enjoy learning about gear too, and I think Tony and Chelsea have a fantastic channel and I’ve bought their books on photography, but I’m not sure they understand the m43 segment of the market.
Panasonic and Olympus have really dropped the ball with pushing m43 sensor development, and it shows. So many products with the old 16 megapixel sensor still, and all of them should be upgraded to the 20 megapixel sensors in the current EM-1 series, and the EM1X should have had substantial upgrades for image quality.
I am looking forward to what Sharp's new 8k m43 camera is going to be like.
Tony Wong Od agree. Olympus has been slower than Panasonic to employ the 20mp sensor. Frustrating to wait for the E-M5 III with hopefully an upgraded sensor and discontinuing the Pen F. However, the difference is marginal anyway. The problem is physics not development.
I think hybrid, optical/electronic, viewfinders may be an option for some of the older mounts.
I think the D6 and possibly D760 will have hybrid viewfinders.
I cannot say how much I value your analyses. If I were a HR guy from Canon or Sony I would have tried to hire you years ago. Thanks for the awesome, scientific, free content.
Regards from a german dr. of engineering
Congrats on over 100,000 views on this podcast. You surely reached a lot of people.
Very intelligent tony... you have come up with such a insane data.. Good work
I just moved from Mirrorless X-T2 to Canon Fullframe - just makes more sense to my style of shooting!
Canon is very popular in Pakistan
Sony is sitting back laughing because they have full frame and APSC using the SAME MOUNT. Canon is too segmented.
well if things go in favor of dslrs in some years, who will be laughing ?
and having eye AF even on animals.. sony is so far ahead its ridiculous
Just bought d500 today not going mirrorless any time soon.
Not dead but dying in a few years mirrorless cameras has passed DSLR in speed, focus, and every thing else so whats the point having a noisy mirror closing and opening