I like how you mention what tracks you listened to in your critiques, it makes the reviews more understandable, especially for beginners like myself. I sometimes find the general audiophile terms are a bit too vague.
Thanks for the honest review Golden. I feel relieved you were not paid or sponsored by that company to just say only positive things. Bad build quality to go along with bad sound quality is to buy more expensive DAC/AMP like the 11 Broadway by WOO Audio.
Haven't had these issues with mine. I actually prefer the amp on EF400 with most of my headphones to a Chord Anni. I've regularly been taken aback by how surprising the EF400 can sound. I thought the Arya v3 also sounded excellent on it, but my comparisons are limited to a Lyr3, a Mojo 2, a liquid spark, and an Anni, with the Lyr3 being most preferable for my tastes with the EF400 just behind. I run both balanced and single-ended without issue as well. I haven't noted any "softness" to the sound though I prefer the OS modes to the NOS modes. I find the EF400 to have some of the characteristics of the Bluemini 2 with snappy/poppy dynamic contrast in the mid-range. Only thing I can say is I bought my unit on Amazon before I saw anyone had a video on it. Usually initial supplies have the most issues but I don't know, mine has been great, especially as a DAC.
@@reign2027 well honestly if you have a Mojo 2 I would just pair that with a less expensive amp. The Mojo 2 and the 109 Pro are a great combo already but if you're looking for something cleaner or warmer in terms of the amp stage, you could just grab something like a Piety or a JDS Labs amp or even a Topping or Schiit amp. I would not pick an EF400 over the Mojo 2 because of the Mojo's versatility and DSP capabilities. For less money you could just grab a Questyle M15 dongle which sounds as good as the EF400 with the 109 Pro. Or a Cayin RU6 if you want something smoother. The EF400 is great if you own some more demanding planars and only need a USB input. It's honestly overkill (a couple of times over) for something like the 109 pro. I really like the EF400 with t60rp Argons, the HEKse, and the Liric. Don't get me wrong it sounds great with the 109 pro but I gotta use an IEMatch adapter from iFi to feel comfortable using it with the 109. If my finger slips adjusting the volume there'd go my hearing.
@@reign2027 can't hurt 😎 but ultimately depends on what you're looking for in terms of sound. I know nothing about FiiO amp to judge. I've run my Mojo 2 into a Piety, a Liquid Spark, a Lyr 3, and an xduoo 602-mt. I think it sounds best on its own or into the Piety. The Mojo 2 is a pretty stellar value for easy to drive cans, so unless you're wanting a particular sound signature or effect I think you already have a really great fit for the 109 Pro.
It would be fair to withdraw that review as it is based on a defective unit… Saying that, it shows Hifiman substandard QC process. I have been through two units with a crackling/popping issue when listening to 16b 44.1kHz music in NOS mode (OS mode is perfect)… …bit I love it so much that I kept it anyway. Looking forward to your updated review as I believe that this is a hell of a product at its price point.
I have quite opposite experience with EF400. Definitely no issues with depth as you described. Actually this unit is great in delivering depth in sound. And it is absolutely beautiful combo with all planars I tried this with (LCD-2C, HE6se V2, Arya Stealth, Emyprean). Maybe your unit has defects?
@@RadoslavMalenovskyFirst of all, cool name bro :). I wonder if you still remember lcd2c + ef400 combo. Wasn’t it too warm/lush? I want to pair my lcd2c with this dac/amp, but I’m afraid the sound will be too muffled, without details, highs in general.
How many people do you think can hear a 0.01 - 0.04 millisecond difference? Come on, be honest with yourself. I have many dacs and amplifiers under $1000 and up, but this is my favorite!
@@chungang7037 Also try Crossfeed if you haven't already, I use the no:2 (Jan Meier) and it has allowed me to listen for hours without getting tired, it's like listening to regular speakers.
Same, I have the ifi stack (ican signature and iDSD) and let me tell you the EF400 was VERY close in everything it wasn’t even funny given the price difference.
I have both the RME and the ef400 and while the RME is great, crisp and sharp the ef400 just has this analog wetness that is hard to get away from. Provided this review is just based on a poor recalled unit, it’s very compelling for what it is. That being said however, I already have an issue with the OS light blinking intermittently and just not working at times. It’s a small thing, but I don’t want to be jammed up if something else isn’t working down the line waiting weeks for warranty work. Regardless, the sound is definitely killer on it. I’m looking forward to more time with the RME as I just got it today and letting it run on my cans in the background. Meze elites, fwiw.
Another great review, AS USUAL. 😊 Has the headphone Show ever done testing and a video on replacement cables and if it’s a benefit or snake oil? Looking for new cables for my 650s, I saw some upwards of $250… wait, what? It’d be great to hear what y’all have say about that, and see what the graphs show. Just a thought!
Cables have never been shown to make a difference for headphones so long as one isn't broken/made with actually terrible material choices. The only exceptions being electrostatic headphones and ribbon drivers where electrical properties can indeed have significant effects. But for normal dynamic/planar headphones, get something soft/non-microphonic and that you like the aesthetics of
I haven't seen anyone else put in this sort of effort to uncover what they were hearing, and as a result I don't think anyone else has discovered these issues until now. Very impressive and helpful!
I was hoping/waiting/looking for someone to run measurements on the EF400. Not surprised it was you, and glad it was you. As always, exhaustive and incisive! I also read the written review. It amounts to an exposé. The performance is so poor that it could be fairly claimed that the product, or at least some components of it, can be called defective. In the written review you mention that the DAC issues might be fixed with a software update. ????!!!
Love your channel! To the point, articulate communicating, tell it like it is. Saves your time and my time. I can’t stand some of these channels 5 to 10 min plugging their sponsor’s, and then goofy or overly dramatic, sometimes emotional (z-reviews, cheapaudioman), you catch my drift. I especially Iike that in the end, you explain the facts and I for one trust your findings.
Thanks for the info Golden! That phase issue is really important to know about. Great job on using your measuring skills to find that. This video is going to save a lot of people from buying a product they probably won’t like.
I've had this for a couple weeks now and I'm very much enjoying it. Not sure why it got bashed so hard in this review. I am aware it doesn't measure well, but I didn't buy it so I can look at a picture of the graph. Check out some other reviews on this amp and you'll see that it gets a ton of good recognition!
@@Scapegoat32 the issues GO shows (notably the phase stuff) aren't just "not measuring well" but actualy "just broken". As in its not doing what I dac should (outputting both channels at the same time). If you like it, by all means keep loving it! I'm just saying that a poor review given this behavior should be understandable
@@eskamobob8662 For sure. Some people are in it for the graphs and numbers and need (or want) that kind of stuff to measure. Which, I'm not bashing, I get the pursuit of perfection or the chase. I'm just in it more for the listening experience. I'm not saying that he is wrong, maybe its not outputting both channels at the same time (i don't know because I can't hear it if it is) but if you hadn't shown me that graph, I wouldn't have known.
@@Scapegoat32 two channels having different sound delays isn't some "chasing measurements" thing. It's a bare minimum functionality that the device should have. If you want a big luxury cruiser, a minivan, or a Ferrari, they are all valid choices. If any of them veer hard left under normal breaking they are broken And I say this as someone who dailies tubes and one of the worst dacs amir has ever measured and loves my chain. This isn't just "doesn't measure good"
@@eskamobob8662 if it's something that is not detectable to my ear, it's a measurement thing. If you have to hook it up to an instrument in order to see that it's out of phase, it's a measurement thing.
I've had my EF400 for about 6 months and also use the DAC output for my active KEF speaker.s. I was interested to see if HIFIMAN has a response to the issues within the measurements and have had nothing from them after sending them a link to the video.
I had this Amp/Dac for a few weeks. It was my first one in many years, I enjoyed what I heard from it but decided to get a Mojo 2 to compare. Needless to say, the EF400 went back the next day.
@@Jootn2kx I have qudelix and it's small, so I think you use iem. Amp or dac section that you don't like from ef400? What's your amp and dac right now.
I've had this amp for about 2 weeks now. Couldn't be happier for $6 hundo. Paired with the Hifiman Edition XS. P.S. I'd love to see more about the albums in the background. Maybe a list?
😮Sorry to contradict you , this is not at all my impressions listening to this fantastic combo. The volume is more than sufficient, il never use it above the ´10am’ volume potentiometer position. The is absolutely no phase issues. Using it behind an Auralic Aries G1 the scenery is perfect , precise and deep on both my two hifiman headphones and my Audeze. Em400 is way better that the three previous Topping DAC amp (world champ measuring but awful sounding). So I suspect you may have misused this device ( especially when you say it doesn’t deliver enough volume) or that you have been testing a heavily defective unit.
With the volume knob issue, it's not that it doesn't have enough volume, by 'play' I mean that the knob feels loose and there is a small amount you have to turn it before volume actually starts getting adjusted.
It sounds great to me on all my headphones/earphone gear. I can listen to it all day and I listen to everything from 2L to Pantera. Everyone's aural sensitivity is their own so listen to it for yourself.
Once he said it's not good for electronic music I was out because that's most of what I listen to. I was really looking forward to this review because I have 4 Hifiman headphones and the Arya being one of them and the fact it doesn't pair well is all I need to hear.
I'm listening to Strobe by Deadmau5 right now with this amp and the Edition XS headphones and it sounds great. Not sure why he said this isn't good for EDM. The Hills by Kasablanca is another that sounds great. The synths that have a "grittier" sound to them and analog synths are well represented (if that makes sense).
@@Scapegoat32 I' happy with my iFi Neo and Jotunheim setup at the moment, I thought this could be a fun one to try but from the data he showed I'm going to stay away for now but glad you enjoy yours and that's all that matters in the end.
I may not have GoldenEars but this amp/dac sounds pretty good with my Aryas - and even better when used as a DAC. Hard to beat for the price if you want something with a bit of r2r character. But I guess "character" can result in bad meassurements. All in all though, I did not detect any phase problems and the EF400 has driven anything I've thrown at it so far.
not sure if they've solved it since but I got one when they first came out and discussing with other people revealed that at least some of these had issues delivering the same levels of power (I couldn't get mine past 9'oclock but others could get theirs past 12'oclock and still find it quiet)
Absolutely baffled by all the hate this guy is getting. He is giving an honest opinion about a product that HIS company sells so if he was being dishonest, he’d be motivated to be dishonest and say it was awesome. That is why I always try to buy from them. They are straightforward and always give an honest opinion regardless of what they do, or don’t have on sale. The real question for me as whether these are quality control issues, because other trusted reviewers have had very different experiences . Unfortunately, it would not be the first time that this company had wide unit variances or quality control issues.
Thanks for the review. With regards to the channel phase issue I just wonder how many dual chip or R2R external array dacs suffer from the same problem but we don't know because no-one has measured this. Am I right to assume that in dual chip Delta Sigma dacs that problem, if present, may be highly mitigated due to the very high sampling frequency of the Delta Sigma stream or in that case the problem would manifest itself in the PCM to bitstream conversion process?
The phase shift is a constant, not a function of the wavelength. Obviously it becomes more significant at higher frequencies when the wavelengths are shorter
@@bluemonstrosity259 sure but I'm talking about both channels going out of phase from each other, the change in phase is not the same across the frequency span
How in the world does a guy who looks like he’s in his early 20s know so much? Are you just a prodigy? Not to pry but I’d love to know a bit more about your history. BTW, I obviously love your content so keep up the great work!
I am not going for the Hifiman. Just too many choices I can get for a little more on separates, and have that much more flexibility. I listen mostly analog tape. So the DAC is not that big to me. I want R2R DAC but in no hurry to get it for my listening sources.
I have a Hifiman EF-400, what software was used to chart the left and right channel? I want to test my amp and see if I have the same issues while the recall is still active. Any help from anyone would be appreciated
This dude is hilarious. He starts of testing a 7000 dollar headphone called Susvara on this 500 dollar dac headphone amp, says its not good, then proceeds to talk about Arya on it and says thats not good either, but never manages to come with any recommendation for headphone on it, then he starts talking about music on it.... What a fail
How much of these "measurement defects" are even audible? I'd wager that most of them aren't. Whatever, this is just one opinion - while the many EF400 owners like them greatly. IMO, it's a NOGO for me because it's an all in one - and as such, not very flexible.....
before you get 1000s opinoins. You would need to specify what best means for you .. accuracy of instruments sound? stage size separation imaging what kind of music you listen too and what you drive these headphones with. and of course would you prefer a closed headphone or open
@@PascalPayantfilms Then I would recommend a used Hifiman Arya. It hits beautifully. It's stand out is the bass comes from the floor and surrounds you as a sub woofer would. Rather than a standard headphone sound of the bass beside your head on each side. Runner up for me would be the lcd2c. It is a rather smooth headphone with rolled off treble. However, the lack of high frequency details wouldn't be an issue with Movies / tv.
I have this DAC amp for a little while, it's absolutely amazing, sounds amazing and the build is excellent, I find it really wrong to show the volume nob having such slacks, has it doesn't. Really poor reporting, and showing graphs as all audiophile knows, is meaningless. really disappointed from the channel. Up your game in proper reviews instead of whatever was this. And show more of the product and less of this guy...
So is the GoldenSound channel pretty much dead? Besides the recent podcast there’s been no reviews. Personally what attracted me to your reviews were the high end components. No stuff like this.
Typical of Hifiman, usually it tries to look good outside, but uses very very cheap parts inside, even on their overpriced products. Never interested especially in their electronics. Just don't get why many audiophiles never learn.
I've found the opposite with Hifiman actually. I'm still pretty new to the "audiophile" thing but I am a musician/ bedroom producer. I've found they typically cheap on the materials and invest more into the sound.
Their HPs are class-leading in SQ in most price categories - so yeah, that's why people buy their HPs. I own(ed) several of them - from HE-4XX, HE-400i 2020, Sundara, Ananda, Arya v2, and now Arya Stealth. IMO, they're a good company whose customer service is excellent.....
@@eskamobob8662 in the same world where this manufacturer is duping ppl of their hard earned money by selling half baked product like this DAC/AMP. No ethical company will sell such broken product
@@SAURAV2k3 a company can make bad products in one category, and great products in others because they are different teams. Yes, the should of sold this product, but that doesnt stop the susvara from being god tire. God tier technical performance, practically flawless FR.
@@SAURAV2k3 quality of any given product isn't realy tied to how good a company is wholesale. Lots of fantastic products sold by mlms for example. I don't even think sus is the right call for 99% of people in the market but it's still objectively a damn good can.
I'm not an "audiofile" and am currently using the SSL2(audio interface, perfect for recording guitars and vocals), and it has a pretty clean sounding DAC in it. Considering how affordable it is, I don't really know if getting a dedicated audio amp is worth it, and would like to know how much better it can sound compared to my interface.
It completely depends on the headphone you are using. Cheaper headphones are less demanding of souce equipment because their drivers have greater distortion, and therefore, less technical effort to benefit from such an upgrade.
You should get a dedicated amp - but the SSL2 DAC is great, I run it through a Schiit Magni amp for my PC (with 1990 Pros). My listening setup uses a Ferrum Erco and better headphones though. For music production the PC setup is perfect
It depends on the headphones you're using, and how much power the interface you're using can output. If the headphones you're using are pretty efficient and don't require a lot of power, you're likely not going to gain any benefit in sound other than being able to drive them even louder than before. Conversely, if your headphones are really inefficient and require more power than the built-in amplifier in your audio interface can put out, then you will likely not be able to get enough volume out of them, the amplifier may clip during certain sections of songs, or you will not be able to get the full dynamic range from a song or media that makes good use of it. (If your volume is already turned to the max, and you can't go any higher, for example.) The SSL2 can sufficiently power most headphones between 16 to 300ohm impedance, so you'll likely not benefit from getting a dedicated amp unless like mentioned earlier, your headphones are extremely inefficient.
@@saikousocial they dont have to be "extremely inefficient". That is true for dynamic headphones, which have pretty linear relationships between their impedance and sensitivity, but planars have almost always low impedance, which mean they need more current for the same impedance load to be applied to them. Almost all mid level planars and up benefit from high capacitance amplifiers as apposed to ones with simply more power.
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA W2D5 | Fall | พลาดวันนี้ จะต้องเสียใจ](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A5-Cuo12p6A/mqdefault.jpg)
I've seen you on the Headphone Show a few times. Never realised you're Golden Sound! Always loved your reviews
I like how you mention what tracks you listened to in your critiques, it makes the reviews more understandable, especially for beginners like myself. I sometimes find the general audiophile terms are a bit too vague.
Yea too many reviewers never mention what music they listen to
I've never seen a Dac/Amp review this solidly backed up by data. Great work, hope to see more reviews from you!
The No Theme Reviews channel goes even more indepth, if you are into that~
@teqai LOL!. ... yeah testing a 7000 dollar headphone on a cheap dac like this is very solid. KUDOS!
Not sure what you are referring to here~
@@chungang7037 Sorry it was meant for the Goldenboy fanboy who thinks its a solid review
I appreciate your analysis, but for whatever reason this thing just sound great to me
I use the Arya stealth and Audeze MM 500 headphones with this and I think it sounds great. To each of its own.
Thanks for the honest review Golden. I feel relieved you were not paid or sponsored by that company to just say only positive things. Bad build quality to go along with bad sound quality is to buy more expensive DAC/AMP like the 11 Broadway by WOO Audio.
yes you need to buy a 8k + headphone amplifier that is the way ,,,,
Haven't had these issues with mine. I actually prefer the amp on EF400 with most of my headphones to a Chord Anni. I've regularly been taken aback by how surprising the EF400 can sound. I thought the Arya v3 also sounded excellent on it, but my comparisons are limited to a Lyr3, a Mojo 2, a liquid spark, and an Anni, with the Lyr3 being most preferable for my tastes with the EF400 just behind. I run both balanced and single-ended without issue as well. I haven't noted any "softness" to the sound though I prefer the OS modes to the NOS modes. I find the EF400 to have some of the characteristics of the Bluemini 2 with snappy/poppy dynamic contrast in the mid-range. Only thing I can say is I bought my unit on Amazon before I saw anyone had a video on it. Usually initial supplies have the most issues but I don't know, mine has been great, especially as a DAC.
how does is compare to mojo 2. I am looking into ef400 for my meze 109 even though I have mojo 2
@@reign2027 well honestly if you have a Mojo 2 I would just pair that with a less expensive amp. The Mojo 2 and the 109 Pro are a great combo already but if you're looking for something cleaner or warmer in terms of the amp stage, you could just grab something like a Piety or a JDS Labs amp or even a Topping or Schiit amp. I would not pick an EF400 over the Mojo 2 because of the Mojo's versatility and DSP capabilities. For less money you could just grab a Questyle M15 dongle which sounds as good as the EF400 with the 109 Pro. Or a Cayin RU6 if you want something smoother. The EF400 is great if you own some more demanding planars and only need a USB input. It's honestly overkill (a couple of times over) for something like the 109 pro. I really like the EF400 with t60rp Argons, the HEKse, and the Liric. Don't get me wrong it sounds great with the 109 pro but I gotta use an IEMatch adapter from iFi to feel comfortable using it with the 109. If my finger slips adjusting the volume there'd go my hearing.
@@dasninjastix I've a fiio k7 lying around. Should I just connect mojo using 3.5 to RCA output?
@@reign2027 can't hurt 😎 but ultimately depends on what you're looking for in terms of sound. I know nothing about FiiO amp to judge. I've run my Mojo 2 into a Piety, a Liquid Spark, a Lyr 3, and an xduoo 602-mt. I think it sounds best on its own or into the Piety. The Mojo 2 is a pretty stellar value for easy to drive cans, so unless you're wanting a particular sound signature or effect I think you already have a really great fit for the 109 Pro.
It would be fair to withdraw that review as it is based on a defective unit…
Saying that, it shows Hifiman substandard QC process.
I have been through two units with a crackling/popping issue when listening to 16b 44.1kHz music in NOS mode (OS mode is perfect)…
…bit I love it so much that I kept it anyway.
Looking forward to your updated review as I believe that this is a hell of a product at its price point.
I like that the Headphone show is featuring other reviewers, keeps things interesting.
I have quite opposite experience with EF400. Definitely no issues with depth as you described. Actually this unit is great in delivering depth in sound. And it is absolutely beautiful combo with all planars I tried this with (LCD-2C, HE6se V2, Arya Stealth, Emyprean). Maybe your unit has defects?
@@humm6155 I would say it was a nice combo. EF400 as well as EF600 were built for planars, so it pairs nice with them.
@@RadoslavMalenovskyFirst of all, cool name bro :). I wonder if you still remember lcd2c + ef400 combo. Wasn’t it too warm/lush? I want to pair my lcd2c with this dac/amp, but I’m afraid the sound will be too muffled, without details, highs in general.
How many people do you think can hear a 0.01 - 0.04 millisecond difference?
Come on, be honest with yourself.
I have many dacs and amplifiers under $1000 and up, but this is my favorite!
Never seen a DAC/amp combo that has made me want to replace my RME ADI-2, listening too it now with my Arya V2.
Same here, the best DAC/amp combo on the market imo.
yea,after a lot of research this was the conclusion I came to as well. The EQ options are crazy great as well
@@chungang7037 Also try Crossfeed if you haven't already, I use the no:2 (Jan Meier) and it has allowed me to listen for hours without getting tired, it's like listening to regular speakers.
Same, I have the ifi stack (ican signature and iDSD) and let me tell you the EF400 was VERY close in everything it wasn’t even funny given the price difference.
I have both the RME and the ef400 and while the RME is great, crisp and sharp the ef400 just has this analog wetness that is hard to get away from. Provided this review is just based on a poor recalled unit, it’s very compelling for what it is. That being said however, I already have an issue with the OS light blinking intermittently and just not working at times. It’s a small thing, but I don’t want to be jammed up if something else isn’t working down the line waiting weeks for warranty work. Regardless, the sound is definitely killer on it. I’m looking forward to more time with the RME as I just got it today and letting it run on my cans in the background. Meze elites, fwiw.
Another great review, AS USUAL. 😊
Has the headphone Show ever done testing and a video on replacement cables and if it’s a benefit or snake oil? Looking for new cables for my 650s, I saw some upwards of $250… wait, what? It’d be great to hear what y’all have say about that, and see what the graphs show. Just a thought!
Cables have never been shown to make a difference for headphones so long as one isn't broken/made with actually terrible material choices. The only exceptions being electrostatic headphones and ribbon drivers where electrical properties can indeed have significant effects.
But for normal dynamic/planar headphones, get something soft/non-microphonic and that you like the aesthetics of
@@GoldenSound Thanks! Wallet is relieved!
I haven't seen anyone else put in this sort of effort to uncover what they were hearing, and as a result I don't think anyone else has discovered these issues until now. Very impressive and helpful!
Very informative review with well presented measurements and corresponding examples as always. Thank you!
OK. that was a interesting review! Well done, looking forward to more of these!
I was hoping/waiting/looking for someone to run measurements on the EF400. Not surprised it was you, and glad it was you. As always, exhaustive and incisive! I also read the written review. It amounts to an exposé. The performance is so poor that it could be fairly claimed that the product, or at least some components of it, can be called defective. In the written review you mention that the DAC issues might be fixed with a software update. ????!!!
Love your channel! To the point, articulate communicating, tell it like it is. Saves your time and my time. I can’t stand some of these channels 5 to 10 min plugging their sponsor’s, and then goofy or overly dramatic, sometimes emotional (z-reviews, cheapaudioman), you catch my drift. I especially Iike that in the end, you explain the facts and I for one trust your findings.
Thanks for the info Golden! That phase issue is really important to know about. Great job on using your measuring skills to find that. This video is going to save a lot of people from buying a product they probably won’t like.
I've had this for a couple weeks now and I'm very much enjoying it. Not sure why it got bashed so hard in this review. I am aware it doesn't measure well, but I didn't buy it so I can look at a picture of the graph. Check out some other reviews on this amp and you'll see that it gets a ton of good recognition!
@@Scapegoat32 the issues GO shows (notably the phase stuff) aren't just "not measuring well" but actualy "just broken". As in its not doing what I dac should (outputting both channels at the same time). If you like it, by all means keep loving it! I'm just saying that a poor review given this behavior should be understandable
@@eskamobob8662 For sure. Some people are in it for the graphs and numbers and need (or want) that kind of stuff to measure. Which, I'm not bashing, I get the pursuit of perfection or the chase. I'm just in it more for the listening experience. I'm not saying that he is wrong, maybe its not outputting both channels at the same time (i don't know because I can't hear it if it is) but if you hadn't shown me that graph, I wouldn't have known.
@@Scapegoat32 two channels having different sound delays isn't some "chasing measurements" thing. It's a bare minimum functionality that the device should have. If you want a big luxury cruiser, a minivan, or a Ferrari, they are all valid choices. If any of them veer hard left under normal breaking they are broken
And I say this as someone who dailies tubes and one of the worst dacs amir has ever measured and loves my chain. This isn't just "doesn't measure good"
@@eskamobob8662 if it's something that is not detectable to my ear, it's a measurement thing. If you have to hook it up to an instrument in order to see that it's out of phase, it's a measurement thing.
Awesome video. Thanks for your efforts.
Smashed it Cameron, thanks for this.
You also sometimes get a crackle in NOS mode. There’s a thread on it on head-fi. HifiMan say to turn it off and on again when this happens. 🙄
I've had my EF400 for about 6 months and also use the DAC output for my active KEF speaker.s. I was interested to see if HIFIMAN has a response to the issues within the measurements and have had nothing from them after sending them a link to the video.
Very good review !
I would like to see your opinion about other Hifimans : EF500 and Serenade.
Another great review !!! But I’m waiting for you to review the spl phonitor ex and spl elector preamp. Thanks in advance Golden👍🏼
I had this Amp/Dac for a few weeks. It was my first one in many years, I enjoyed what I heard from it but decided to get a Mojo 2 to compare. Needless to say, the EF400 went back the next day.
Agreed mine went back same evening, my cheap qudelix 5K dac sounded better lmao
@@Jootn2kxseroiusly? What iem u used with qudelix and ef400
@@yongkykurniawan1089 hifiman edition XS, no iem and yes i'm a hifiman fan, love all their headphones but I hated the EF400, i'm serious.
@@Jootn2kx I have qudelix and it's small, so I think you use iem. Amp or dac section that you don't like from ef400?
What's your amp and dac right now.
I've had none of these problems with my unit...
I've had this amp for about 2 weeks now. Couldn't be happier for $6 hundo. Paired with the Hifiman Edition XS. P.S. I'd love to see more about the albums in the background. Maybe a list?
This has interested me cause of the R2R, thanks for the video!
Can't believe they got the phase wrong. Any chance it's a defect?
Read the written review.
Nope. Other people like L7Audiolabs have done measurements and it is the same. The phase shift is unacceptable
😮Sorry to contradict you , this is not at all my impressions listening to this fantastic combo.
The volume is more than sufficient, il never use it above the ´10am’ volume potentiometer position.
The is absolutely no phase issues. Using it behind an Auralic Aries G1 the scenery is perfect , precise and deep on both my two hifiman headphones and my Audeze.
Em400 is way better that the three previous Topping DAC amp (world champ measuring but awful sounding). So I suspect you may have misused this device ( especially when you say it doesn’t deliver enough volume) or that you have been testing a heavily defective unit.
With the volume knob issue, it's not that it doesn't have enough volume, by 'play' I mean that the knob feels loose and there is a small amount you have to turn it before volume actually starts getting adjusted.
Would be nice to compare it against the R2R11 from Audio-gd. Similar price points and a great DAC amp
Just curious, what are the other options that you keep referring during the review?
I'm looking forward to seeing the new EF600 reviewed. Could it be a decent upgrade over the EF400?
It sounds great to me on all my headphones/earphone gear. I can listen to it all day and I listen to everything from 2L to Pantera. Everyone's aural sensitivity is their own so listen to it for yourself.
Once he said it's not good for electronic music I was out because that's most of what I listen to. I was really looking forward to this review because I have 4 Hifiman headphones and the Arya being one of them and the fact it doesn't pair well is all I need to hear.
I'm listening to Strobe by Deadmau5 right now with this amp and the Edition XS headphones and it sounds great. Not sure why he said this isn't good for EDM. The Hills by Kasablanca is another that sounds great. The synths that have a "grittier" sound to them and analog synths are well represented (if that makes sense).
@@Scapegoat32 I' happy with my iFi Neo and Jotunheim setup at the moment, I thought this could be a fun one to try but from the data he showed I'm going to stay away for now but glad you enjoy yours and that's all that matters in the end.
@@TechnoGuy11 Couldn't blame you a bit. That's a nice set up!
I may not have GoldenEars but this amp/dac sounds pretty good with my Aryas - and even better when used as a DAC. Hard to beat for the price if you want something with a bit of r2r character. But I guess "character" can result in bad meassurements. All in all though, I did not detect any phase problems and the EF400 has driven anything I've thrown at it so far.
Please review the Holo audio Bliss, Ferrum Oor and the Forge or Mogwai🤞🏼
Top review thanks
Compared to the iFi Audio Zen CAN / Zen DAC combo, or compared to the JDS Labs Atom DAC 2 / Atom AMP 2, how do you rate the Burson Playmate 2 ?
not sure if they've solved it since but I got one when they first came out and discussing with other people revealed that at least some of these had issues delivering the same levels of power (I couldn't get mine past 9'oclock but others could get theirs past 12'oclock and still find it quiet)
Absolutely baffled by all the hate this guy is getting. He is giving an honest opinion about a product that HIS company sells so if he was being dishonest, he’d be motivated to be dishonest and say it was awesome.
That is why I always try to buy from them. They are straightforward and always give an honest opinion regardless of what they do, or don’t have on sale.
The real question for me as whether these are quality control issues, because other trusted reviewers have had very different experiences . Unfortunately, it would not be the first time that this company had wide unit variances or quality control issues.
Thanks for the review. With regards to the channel phase issue I just wonder how many dual chip or R2R external array dacs suffer from the same problem but we don't know because no-one has measured this. Am I right to assume that in dual chip Delta Sigma dacs that problem, if present, may be highly mitigated due to the very high sampling frequency of the Delta Sigma stream or in that case the problem would manifest itself in the PCM to bitstream conversion process?
having shifting phase shift between channels is really weird....
The phase shift is a constant, not a function of the wavelength. Obviously it becomes more significant at higher frequencies when the wavelengths are shorter
@@bluemonstrosity259 sure but I'm talking about both channels going out of phase from each other, the change in phase is not the same across the frequency span
@@rokiedecentra9656 the phase shift is caused by a constant time delay
How in the world does a guy who looks like he’s in his early 20s know so much? Are you just a prodigy? Not to pry but I’d love to know a bit more about your history. BTW, I obviously love your content so keep up the great work!
Long held passion for a topic can allow you to learn a ton about it.
I am not going for the Hifiman. Just too many choices I can get for a little more on separates, and have that much more flexibility. I listen mostly analog tape. So the DAC is not that big to me. I want R2R DAC but in no hurry to get it for my listening sources.
Here’s a question- is it more appealing at $300?
Make a review on rme products as well please
ThanksMuch!
Gordonsound is back
Where are the comparisons?
I wonder what his take will be on the R2R DAC and 5.3 watts on tap on the recently released EF600?
Is this phase cancellation issue also present on the line outputs of the amp?
Please back up your distortion measurements with the threshold of perception.
Far from - 115 dB transparency, but when you buy this product you want colouration.
Can you review Yulong aurora ? Measurements as well.
How long have you been burnt/listened this headphone amplifier?
10:10 what would you recommend for the Arya in the same price range? Thanks
I have a Hifiman EF-400, what software was used to chart the left and right channel? I want to test my amp and see if I have the same issues while the recall is still active. Any help from anyone would be appreciated
How about versus video comparing this to the Burson Playmate 2?
Looks like a sweet combo for the price
I'm stupid enough to have AnK 3000sp with lcd x 21/ empire Odin. Any use to me?
When I see R2R I think vynil performance, - 70dB dht noise, because analog lovers loves distortion? I don't know.
Please review the ef600
Would this be a good match for the Arya stealth or would the Topping A/D 30 combo be better?
Golden where art thou...
Unfortunately, the single digital input makes it unusable for me.
This dude is hilarious. He starts of testing a 7000 dollar headphone called Susvara on this 500 dollar dac headphone amp, says its not good, then proceeds to talk about Arya on it and says thats not good either, but never manages to come with any recommendation for headphone on it, then he starts talking about music on it....
What a fail
I agree I actually use the Arya stealth with the EF 400 and it’s an absolutely fantastic pairing I think
Me: *waiting for holo bliss review*
Cam: I’m going to do literally everything else first.
(Joke)
How much of these "measurement defects" are even audible? I'd wager that most of them aren't. Whatever, this is just one opinion - while the many EF400 owners like them greatly. IMO, it's a NOGO for me because it's an all in one - and as such, not very flexible.....
If it is so bad why are you selling it
what would you recommand headphone wise under 1000$ as the best option
Meze 109 pro . Audeze lcd-2 classic
before you get 1000s opinoins. You would need to specify what best means for you ..
accuracy of instruments sound?
stage size
separation
imaging
what kind of music you listen too and what you drive these headphones with. and of course would you prefer a closed headphone or open
@@KenMoreira totally. Mostly it’s watching movies that’s my main tool for the job
@@PascalPayantfilms Then I would recommend a used Hifiman Arya.
It hits beautifully. It's stand out is the bass comes from the floor and surrounds you as a sub woofer would. Rather than a standard headphone sound of the bass beside your head on each side.
Runner up for me would be the lcd2c. It is a rather smooth headphone with rolled off treble. However, the lack of high frequency details wouldn't be an issue with Movies / tv.
I thought funny everyone else loved this model,I pop over to the very sales base website still no more info funny very funny,know what I mean?
WOW! That's bad! I have really enjoyed the sound of this, but it was really bad serving as a DAC. My ears must need a lot of improvement...
This EF400 or Asgard 3 + Modius?
Bliss
Just get a JDS Labs Element III Boosted. Better build, better sound, better customer support, and it's cheaper.
Hifiman 🤣🤣🤣
Get the EF400, don’t listen to this gentleman. At $399 new, $330 used, it’s the best value in audio.
Jotunheim 2 destroys the EF400, I say this from personal experience.
@@RaKnows ...its got nothing common with this
@@MrDannyyb Two all in one amp/DACs in a similar price range, both have R2R DACs. Nothing in common? You sure about that?
@@RaKnowsit’s more expensive if you add a DAC module while the EF400 has one included.
I have this DAC amp for a little while, it's absolutely amazing, sounds amazing and the build is excellent, I find it really wrong to show the volume nob having such slacks, has it doesn't. Really poor reporting, and showing graphs as all audiophile knows, is meaningless. really disappointed from the channel. Up your game in proper reviews instead of whatever was this. And show more of the product and less of this guy...
Very disappointing news. That thing is a hot mess.
So is the GoldenSound channel pretty much dead? Besides the recent podcast there’s been no reviews. Personally what attracted me to your reviews were the high end components. No stuff like this.
He should just stick to high-end components. Anything that's of reasonable value doesn't stand a chance being reviewed by him 🤷🏾♂️
@@stevendavis1135 he likes affordable things too. Moondrop Kato for example was a great vid.
He has some stuff comming on his main channel as well iirc
it's to cheep for Golden Sound I suppose...
Plenty of very affordable products I'm a big fan of. See my reviews of KATO and Mojo 2 for example.
Those phase issues are unacceptable for any price.
Yea, normally something needs to be more then 700 before it starts to sound good for goldensound
Typical of Hifiman, usually it tries to look good outside, but uses very very cheap parts inside, even on their overpriced products. Never interested especially in their electronics. Just don't get why many audiophiles never learn.
I've found the opposite with Hifiman actually. I'm still pretty new to the "audiophile" thing but I am a musician/ bedroom producer. I've found they typically cheap on the materials and invest more into the sound.
Their HPs are class-leading in SQ in most price categories - so yeah, that's why people buy their HPs. I own(ed) several of them - from HE-4XX, HE-400i 2020, Sundara, Ananda, Arya v2, and now Arya Stealth. IMO, they're a good company whose customer service is excellent.....
Probably best to just avoid any/all hifiman products.
You're listening to a $600 headphone amp with a $6,000 set of cans interesting
All you really need...
So what?
A mediocre headphone which performs with speaker amp is at $6000 so you can imagine what $600 will bring from the same company
In what world is susvara mediocre? Even on a dongle stuff like detail is basicaly as high as you can get short of estats
@@eskamobob8662 in the same world where this manufacturer is duping ppl of their hard earned money by selling half baked product like this DAC/AMP. No ethical company will sell such broken product
@@SAURAV2k3 a company can make bad products in one category, and great products in others because they are different teams. Yes, the should of sold this product, but that doesnt stop the susvara from being god tire. God tier technical performance, practically flawless FR.
@@SAURAV2k3 quality of any given product isn't realy tied to how good a company is wholesale. Lots of fantastic products sold by mlms for example. I don't even think sus is the right call for 99% of people in the market but it's still objectively a damn good can.
@@eskamobob8662 ok they can make bad product and there is learning in it but decision to sell it doesn’t bode well
I'm not an "audiofile" and am currently using the SSL2(audio interface, perfect for recording guitars and vocals), and it has a pretty clean sounding DAC in it. Considering how affordable it is, I don't really know if getting a dedicated audio amp is worth it, and would like to know how much better it can sound compared to my interface.
It completely depends on the headphone you are using. Cheaper headphones are less demanding of souce equipment because their drivers have greater distortion, and therefore, less technical effort to benefit from such an upgrade.
You should get a dedicated amp - but the SSL2 DAC is great, I run it through a Schiit Magni amp for my PC (with 1990 Pros). My listening setup uses a Ferrum Erco and better headphones though. For music production the PC setup is perfect
It depends on the headphones you're using, and how much power the interface you're using can output.
If the headphones you're using are pretty efficient and don't require a lot of power, you're likely not going to gain any benefit in sound other than being able to drive them even louder than before.
Conversely, if your headphones are really inefficient and require more power than the built-in amplifier in your audio interface can put out, then you will likely not be able to get enough volume out of them, the amplifier may clip during certain sections of songs, or you will not be able to get the full dynamic range from a song or media that makes good use of it. (If your volume is already turned to the max, and you can't go any higher, for example.)
The SSL2 can sufficiently power most headphones between 16 to 300ohm impedance, so you'll likely not benefit from getting a dedicated amp unless like mentioned earlier, your headphones are extremely inefficient.
@@saikousocial they dont have to be "extremely inefficient". That is true for dynamic headphones, which have pretty linear relationships between their impedance and sensitivity, but planars have almost always low impedance, which mean they need more current for the same impedance load to be applied to them. Almost all mid level planars and up benefit from high capacitance amplifiers as apposed to ones with simply more power.
add a zen can 200bugs and u r fine
it is way better then our interfacesound
u wont regret
i use stellia, sundara, hd 660s, ndh 20