It's a leaky dummy load, most of the RF is attenuated in the ferrite - which will warm up with continuous TX. I made a similar finding with a large copper magnetic loop and was pleased with the wide response on the MFJ analyser. In practice it was great for RX but didn't radiate more than a few watts even with 100W @ 7Mhz running into it.
I think it is obvious that the bandwidth is due to loss in the balun. A balun at VHF would not normally need ferrite material unless it is a choke balun. Make 2 baluns and place them back to back and measure the loss through them and divide by 2. I think you'll find you have pretty much a dummy load for a balun. Dale
So I'm sitting here watching this video and you mentioned Chambersburg then I looked and you are KB3TQO, I just talked to you on the radio last weekend. 73, DE KF4LWX
Very nice video, well done and educational for everyone......except the ferrite core is very lossy at these high frequencies. It would be a great balun for a QRP low band antenna. Look into doing the balun with a different core. Then, put together, another great video like this one. Thanks for a nice job. 73 Ron K7RJ
Ferrite that is appropriate for AM broadcast may be OK for lower HF frequencies, but is wholly inappropriate and very lossy at VHF freqnecies. This accounts for the bandwidth.
It"s just a Magnetic Loop. Orienting it horizontally will allow it too function better for weak signal work. Working a repeater just orient it vertically again. What you might find is that vertically it may be broad side directional. Spin the sides towards a weak repeater ,or experiment with a station on 146.550 FM simplex and see if signals get stronger ,or weaker as you spin the loop. On SSB 144.200 +/- the call frequency horizontally won't make a difference.
Havent tried yet but there is the clubs picnic this weekend. They appointed me as the foxhunt coordinater. I'll film the hunt and if successful with the loop, I'll post it up.
Just passed my Technician license test yesterday. I got a free radio for passing, a Yaesu FT-4VR, mono band. Until I get on the database I need to make an antenna for 2 meter for my radio. How did you construct the balun for the delta loop? I have to get out on the deck to be able to even hear the repeater with the rubber ducky antenna.
Muy buenos dias KB3TQO, hago una pregunta que es el cuadradito de color negro donde los cables de la bobina se unen. Estas bobinas son de nucleo de aire o de ferrita. Espero su respuesta. Muy bueno el video estan muy interesante esas bobinas. 73s Cordiales
Great video thanks for sharing. I know delta loops have gain over a dipole and they are a full wavelength usually and fed with 4:1 balun or a 1/4 wave matching 75ohm piece of coax for the frequency you are on. There is some extra gain usually opposite the balun, but not much. I presume yours would give great omni directivity being in loop and be vertically polarised, which you want on 2m FM. Thanks again 73's and good DX Andy M6APJ
A true 5 watts was a bit much. It did get warm. From a handheld you should be fine. Diameter you ask. 3 feet=36 inches circumference divided by Pi (3.14)=11.4649 inches diameter. The shape was somewhat forgiving so don't worry if it looks more like an egg, but do try a circular like shape. Let me know if you don't get the email 73
Nice job. I'm surprised the ferrite rod from an AM radio worked. You'd expect it to saturate at higher frequencies. Perhaps keeping the power down will prevent this from happening.
O....M...G...! thankyouthankyouthankyou 73 W4VEY Tampa, FL...I"d like to try these on LEO ham sats, being a bit directional and with me already getting action on a mere vertical (idea would be to hook up two or more of these E-Z loops to an antenna switcher, North/Sotuh, East/West (maybe more) orientations to switch instead of tracking physically a yagi through the sky....I've done cool things with capacitors but very narrow banded. You could also hang one of these off a balloon in a pinch instead of the ubiquitous, obligatory potato gun or water bottle to get elevation, and better coverage than resorting to NVIS if repeaters go down and you're tinkering trying to help out, this seems valuable what with those ferrules being so common ...anyway anyway thanks again for this most serendipitous post. I source from nearby materials all the time.
im pretty sure as some others have said the ferrite is acting as a dummy load and thats why you have such a flat swr, you could prove this, and improve the antenna tons by making a 4:1 balun with some coax www.n-lemma.com/calcs/dipole/balun.gif K0LIN
Nice. Amazing bandwidth. I'd like to try it on ssb. Do you think it would handle 10 watts? Here's another request for the balun drawing. Also whats the diameter of the loop? knightsonbroadway at yahoo dawt calm. 73 and thanks W7WBB
what you made was a 2mtr full wave loop, which as any amateur knows would be a 3x full wave on 70cms.. like a lot of ham bands they work on harmonic frequencies, so a 6mtr 1/4 will work on 2mtr and 70cms. a 2mtr 1/4 is a 3/4 on 70cms. so it's not wide banded at all it's a resonant antenna for VHF and the 3rd harmonic frequency is in UHF.. bloody hams...they're crap now days..
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It's a leaky dummy load, most of the RF is attenuated in the ferrite - which will warm up with continuous TX. I made a similar finding with a large copper magnetic loop and was pleased with the wide response on the MFJ analyser. In practice it was great for RX but didn't radiate more than a few watts even with 100W @ 7Mhz running into it.
That's what I thought watching this.
I think it is obvious that the bandwidth is due to loss in the balun. A balun at VHF would not normally need ferrite material unless it is a choke balun.
Make 2 baluns and place them back to back and measure the loss through them and divide by 2. I think you'll find you have pretty much a dummy load for a balun.
Dale
Older and maybe even newer internal AM radio antennas are wrapped around
a ferrite rod that you can use for a balun, if thats what you are asking.
So I'm sitting here watching this video and you mentioned Chambersburg then I looked and you are KB3TQO, I just talked to you on the radio last weekend.
73, DE KF4LWX
Thats awesome, how often does that happen? 73
Hint. Delta means Three Side. A Triangle. There is also Square Loop, Hex, Oct, Coat Hanger, Hula Hoop, and this, Loop.
Very nice video, well done and educational for everyone......except the ferrite core is very lossy at these high frequencies. It would be a great balun for a QRP low band antenna. Look into doing the balun with a different core. Then, put together, another great video like this one. Thanks for a nice job. 73 Ron K7RJ
Ferrite that is appropriate for AM broadcast may be OK for lower HF frequencies, but is wholly inappropriate and very lossy at VHF freqnecies.
This accounts for the bandwidth.
It"s just a Magnetic Loop. Orienting it horizontally will allow it too function better for weak signal work. Working a repeater just orient it vertically again. What you might find is that vertically it may be broad side directional. Spin the sides towards a weak repeater ,or experiment with a station on 146.550 FM simplex and see if signals get stronger ,or weaker as you spin the loop. On SSB 144.200 +/- the call frequency horizontally won't make a difference.
100% correct Mike. I had posted the same answer some months back.
Dale W4OP
Havent tried yet but there is the clubs picnic this weekend. They appointed me as the foxhunt coordinater. I'll film the hunt and if successful with the loop, I'll post it up.
Just passed my Technician license test yesterday. I got a free radio for passing, a Yaesu FT-4VR, mono band. Until I get on the database I need to make an antenna for 2 meter for my radio. How did you construct the balun for the delta loop? I have to get out on the deck to be able to even hear the repeater with the rubber ducky antenna.
Muy buenos dias KB3TQO, hago una pregunta que es el cuadradito de color negro donde los cables de la bobina se unen. Estas bobinas son de nucleo de aire o de ferrita. Espero su respuesta. Muy bueno el video estan muy interesante esas bobinas. 73s Cordiales
Great video thanks for sharing. I know delta loops have gain over a dipole and they are a full wavelength usually and fed with 4:1 balun or a 1/4 wave matching 75ohm piece of coax for the frequency you are on. There is some extra gain usually opposite the balun, but not much. I presume yours would give great omni directivity being in loop and be vertically polarised, which you want on 2m FM. Thanks again 73's and good DX Andy M6APJ
A true 5 watts was a bit much. It did get warm. From a handheld you should be fine. Diameter you ask. 3 feet=36 inches circumference divided by Pi (3.14)=11.4649 inches diameter. The shape was somewhat forgiving so don't worry if it looks more like an egg, but do try a circular like shape. Let me know if you don't get the email 73
Have you a web page on the construction of this balun? Would be nice to experiment with this idea.
BTW: A Delta is triangular shaped.
Maybe. What bands are you listening to and how much room are you working with?
Very creative, nice job.
Nice job. I'm surprised the ferrite rod from an AM radio worked. You'd expect it to saturate at higher frequencies. Perhaps keeping the power down will prevent this from happening.
LOL! It's happened to me as well. DId you try to see if it has directivity yet? I know on HF versions they do.
Did you get the plans for the balun?
How is the Q in the antenna system? When it apparently is so broadbanded - what is the reason and much power is getting out?
OZ1FKU
O....M...G...! thankyouthankyouthankyou 73 W4VEY Tampa, FL...I"d like to try these on LEO ham sats, being a bit directional and with me already getting action on a mere vertical (idea would be to hook up two or more of these E-Z loops to an antenna switcher, North/Sotuh, East/West (maybe more) orientations to switch instead of tracking physically a yagi through the sky....I've done cool things with capacitors but very narrow banded. You could also hang one of these off a balloon in a pinch instead of the ubiquitous, obligatory potato gun or water bottle to get elevation, and better coverage than resorting to NVIS if repeaters go down and you're tinkering trying to help out, this seems valuable what with those ferrules being so common ...anyway anyway thanks again for this most serendipitous post. I source from nearby materials all the time.
does all fm radios have transmission line in it ?
No tone on that repeater?
I caught that after watching the vid. I was on a Delts loop kick then and was calling all loops Delta loops. 73
Would love to make this as a loop for SWl could you help with that
The truth is, I don't think "so much power is getting out". At a true 5 watts, there is a lot of heat from the balun on 2 meters.
WOW. SWR of 1.0.... impressive.
On it's way. If you dont get it, let me know.
Well done, Sir!
Cool! Look forward to it.
just because something has a low SWR does NOT mean it will perform well..
try telling that to a lot of today's hams..
clueless and uneducated..!!
I have built many antennas I have thrown my SWR meter away my best performing ones have never been tested
Congratulations!
Wonderful video. Production quality is so great that it is a pleasure to watch it!
73 de VA6POP
Vasile
very interesting vid
Nice antenna! 73s N3WYZ
if you move it higher from the ground the swr will even inprove...
Thanks
nope, not yet
for 440 you'd have to have a much smaller loop
muito bom.
im pretty sure as some others have said the ferrite is acting as a dummy load and thats why you have such a flat swr, you could prove this, and improve the antenna tons by making a 4:1 balun with some coax www.n-lemma.com/calcs/dipole/balun.gif K0LIN
Space is not a factor. I would like it to be multi band. I
A nice dummy load lol
Just sent it. Let me know if you dont get it.
and a loop is round. *sigh*
Just sent it to your email, let me know if you did'nt get it and I can do it again.
73 and good luck
Like normal. Nobody there on the repeaters. :(
Just sent it. If you dont get it, let me know and I'll do it again. 73 and have fun
KB3TQO/Chris
GOOD INFO.!!!
It looks like you are at canyon lake
nice ant. 73's n3wyz
It was emailed to me, I could send it to you
Nice. Amazing bandwidth. I'd like to try it on ssb. Do you think it would handle 10 watts? Here's another request for the balun drawing. Also whats the diameter of the loop? knightsonbroadway at yahoo dawt calm.
73 and thanks
W7WBB
On its way. 73
what you made was a 2mtr full wave loop,
which as any amateur knows would be a 3x full wave on 70cms..
like a lot of ham bands they work on harmonic frequencies,
so a 6mtr 1/4 will work on 2mtr and 70cms.
a 2mtr 1/4 is a 3/4 on 70cms.
so it's not wide banded at all it's a resonant antenna for VHF and the 3rd harmonic frequency is in UHF..
bloody hams...they're crap now days..
Get away from the camera. You are spitting in my face . Delta is a triangle.
Cool thanks.73
Send your email and I can send the print out from this video. 73
Enjoyed your video - will make a similar, OZ1FKU, Ole
Got the email. Thanks.
Will
2E0WHN
why has this weirdo got the camera stuck in face ?? uncomfortable viewing ..
Sometimes it is useful to see if your nose needs picking, whilst under the guise of making a video about antennas...