Louisville NAC 2023 SMF - L4 - Andrew Chen v Miles Chamley-Watson

This is a semifinal bout in the senior men's foil event at the 2023 January NAC in Louisville, Kentucky. Andrew Chen is on the left and Miles Chamley-Watson is on the right.
Results for this tournament can be found here:
www.fencingtim...
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[@garchompdude]

Andrew Chen is quietly becoming the next American superstar. I love his fencing

[@CyrusofChaos]

Honestly me too

[@kevinzhou7442]

don’t forget Allen

[@Bigworm50]

chase emmer is going to prob be the next one then chen andrew

[@Bigworm50]

@@kevinzhou7442 lol if Allen and Andrew became 2028 olympians that would be crazy

[@matthewclark5890]

what was the card Miles was looking for?

[@alexthegreat38]

Covering target with the mask. Specifically I think Miles was arguing that Chen was bringing his mask sideways to cover his left shoulder during his counterattacks/remises.
I agree with the ref on all the non-calls, except for possibly the last one before they get the side judges. That one, the head movement might've been enough for the card, but like they were saying it can be hard to tell from the angle we are watching from.

[@showwhite7320]

​@@alexthegreat38 I would disagree. The amount of head movement in 7:14 is within the acceptable range of motion. When you are leaning forward, your head is going to be more upright. Yes, he might leaning to the side but it's not covering his left shoulder.
Some fencers will tilt their mask in order to block the flick, but that's not the case here. Fencers are allowed to displace their target and body to avoid getting hit. That's what the fencer is doing here. He's trying to move closer to Miles and arching his back to avoid getting hit.
What's absurd about this is that Miles actually hit his opponent on the left shoulder/back for that point. So his opponent obviously wasn't covering his target. How could he have the balls to call for side judges here?

[@tomsimpson5317]

Wish I had the money af blows

[@caterinavega4228]

You can see the difference in skill, dramatic skill. Andrew was calm just trying to get on with fencing. Watson was doing all sorts of time stalling, hand gestures and other dramatics to get andrew flustered.

[@CyrusofChaos]

Hard to fault someone for doing something that wins them the bout

[@caterinavega4228]

@@CyrusofChaos knowing when to be a diva and put on the dramatics can be a large part of fencing.

[@CyrusofChaos]

@@caterinavega4228 agreed!

[@showwhite7320]

@@CyrusofChaos "Hard to fault someone for doing something that wins them the bout"
I don't know about this… We need to emphasize sportsmanship which is lacking in fencing. Some people will have no problem with cheating to win. Or bending the rules or finding loopholes. However, I think we should expect people to play in a fair and civilized manner.

[@CyrusofChaos]

@@showwhite7320 *within reason. nobody is more aware of the edge case problems than I am but i think with the exception of a few bad actors most of the community is on the same page about that stuff. And I don't think Miles's behavior here crosses the line

[@showwhite7320]

I think Miles is complaining about nothing like he frequently does. It's just absurd that he is always complaining about calls even though he won the point. Yes, it's important to establish the correct rules, but he goes too far. He doesn't complain to make sure the ref is seeing the action correctly. In my opinion, he likes to establish dominance and authority. To establish that he's right.

[@ganzuhh]

I disagree that its for establishing dominance and authority. It really just looks like he is arguing for a card or hoping to clarify that a touch is his for a different reason (attack - touch, instead of attack - no - counterattack - touch)
Another reason he does what he does is to buy time, which is very effective in messing with the opponent when they're building momentum, or to allow him to reassess the situation and what to do better. I think he does do these things a little bit excessively, but he is one of the top fencers in the United States, a former world champion, and heading to the Olympics, so if it ain't broke don't fix it I guess.

[@showwhite7320]

@@ganzuhh "he is one of the top fencers in the United States, a former world champion, and heading to the Olympics, so if it ain't broke don't fix it I guess."
So if someone plays with poor sportsmanship, we should let it go if he wins?
Unfortunately, fencing is rife with poor sportsmanship and a lack of class. People will complain about things that are petty and are not true. Or people will overly celebrate. I see this with top fencers and fencers at the bottom. There is a reason why other sports have instituted rules to stop over-celebration. It really gets out of hand sometimes.

[@ganzuhh]

@@showwhite7320 I think people should be allowed to celebrate as much as they want as long as it doesn't go into trash-talking territory. Also, wasting time can be used for both sides, if the other fencer is focused then it helps them as well. I don't think it is bad sportsmanship, I just think its a little silly sometimes, but not malicious.

[@Bigworm50]

this is div 1 bruv