Shin said that Bach did not compose anything directly for the lute and only for lute-like keyboard instruments like the lautenwerck. However, Bach had a relationship with Sylvius Leopold Weiss. Weiss was the last great lutenist. So some of Bach's compositions could have been written for Weiss. Bach and Weiss were said to have competed in improvisation, as the following account by Johann Friedrich Reichardt describes: "Anyone who knows how difficult it is to play harmonic modulations and good counterpoint on the lute will be surprised and full of disbelief to hear from eyewitnesses that Weiss, the great lutenist, challenged J.S. Bach, the great harpsichordist and organist, at playing fantasies and fugues."
Thank you for this interesting discussion about the lautenwerck, it’s a mysterious instrument indeed! Guitarists know about this instrument and about these works (the so-called “lute suites” and the Prelude, Fugue and Allegro) very well. It’s very cool to hear them performed on the lautenwerck, though. I listened to the interview on NPR this morning (3/25/21) and the host said that nowadays you can only hear them performed on the harpsichord, which I believe is a mistake. Traditionally they have been performed a lot more by guitarists than even lutenists, especially for the last 100 years or so, since Segovia started playing individual dances from BWV 996. These works have been an integral part of the guitarist’s repertoire for decades. Thanks again for this great video, your performance was beautiful!
What a perfect way to spend a snowy day discovering this bizarrely beautiful sounding instrument. Thank you Dongsok for a compelling performance and clear, yet erudite explanation.
Thank you, Mr. Shin, for your informative presentation and lovely performance on the lautenwerck! I have always enjoyed these pieces as transcribed for classical guitar. The lautenwerck has a warm tone that is a pleasure to listen to.
It seems possible that he wrote these pieces not entirely understanding how the math of the lute fingerboard works (being a keyboard player). In the end it seems to have worked out anyway, because people found a way to play it.
Dare I say, in the world of keyboards I like the Bob James approach to keyboard. Use what you got. One could layer a harpsichord preset with a lute preset with some attack adjustments and still be in the ballpark. "Learn from the past, participate in the present, and welcome the future" is what I was taught at music school.
@@Frederer59 I accept your philosophical opinion about this. However, for myself, I beg to differ. For one thing, it ISN'T always 100% about the sound of the instrument(s). For me, 50% of the pleasure of playing these instruments is the feel of them under the fingers. All the various harpsichords and lautenwerks and early pianos that I play have different feels and necessitate different approaches. So NO electronic substitute will work for me (though there was a time many years ago that I thought it could!).
Absolutely wonderful presentation and performance! Congratulations and thank you for sharing it. My first thought after enjoying the beautiful sound is what a tuning nightmare it must present. I find it interesting enough with 5 gut strings on my cello . . .
There were more types of lutes than hot diners around at that time. Peter Croton has performed the "lute" works on Italian lute (as used in Germany during this time) without any modifications and in the original keys.
Thank you for your presentation and very pleasant performance. I believe that I would enjoy it even more if "flavored" with the judicious addition of optional ornaments. See, for example, "Ornamentation In J S Bach S Organ Works", by Putnam Aldrich
this brings tears to my eyes actually. I have been listening to the Sarkozy recording for years - the Sarkozy instrument was conceived along completely different lines - 16, 2X8, in gut, 4' in steel or so. This is 2X8 with actually lute inspired scalings., man..... We'll be in touch. I'm mostly done with FB, but I will find you. Cheers. Keep up the good work.
@@dongsoks Sir, I'm 54 years old; this whole digitilision isn't particularly going down well with me. I'm at Ambyerstraat Noord 95 6225 EC Maastricht The Netherlands
Building an instrument takes months and months; wtf the young ones of these days expect an answer within a second. Why rush to grow old? Peace be with you.
I wish the performer'would have demonstrated the individual tonal elements of this instrument rather than just talking about them. Hearing the Gut and Brass Strings separately and together along with the Upper/Lower Manual differences, Buff Action, Etc. would have improved the presentation.
I would have, if I owned the instrument. But unfortunately, I don't. And it was in Wyoming, while I was at home in New York City when I made the talk part of the video...
I wish to second Marsha P's comment here. Notable also, that you simply sit at the instrument and play, without excessive body movements and gurning your face into strange contortions that some performers feel adds to the emotional value of the music!
A stunningly vibrant, well-paced performance. But also a stunning instrument and recording. It's almost like reverb was added. As if this was enhanced in the studio? Or maybe it was? // I personally ALWAYS add reverb and delay to my piano recordings. Mr. Dongshok, this sounds lower than A432 (my home tuning). I'm guessing this is in A415Hz?
Wonderful performance and the beautiful sound of the lautenwerck is pure heaven. But I can’t help feeling how strange it is to be playing on the insides of animals. What if aliens enslaved humans and used our guts for instruments for joyful sounds. I would love to know if Nylagut or synthetic strings that emulate gut are made in all gauges needed for the Lautenwerck. If this can be done, we can soar to new heights with the revival of this incredible instrument, without the guilt. What do you think? Thanks!
Great performance and amazing tone! However, I would be able to tell that this is not played on a lute. The sound that's created when a hand plucks a string is different than when it's done with an instrument's plectrum.
Lovely sound. But are the strings on modern Lautenwercks actually gut, or are they nylon? It seems to me that gut strings wouldn't hold their turning for more than one performance. Tuning that thing repeatedly and often with so many strings would be horribly inconvenient compared to, say, a lute with just six strings. That may explain why the Lautenwerck declined while the harpsichord survived to this day.
If you take a tuning wich is not too high and too much tension for the strings, it will keep in tune quite a while.... my luth has 24 strings/ 13 course. With actual gut nowadays, cause i couldnt stand that plastic no more, and wanted to be historical. Ordered strings 415 Hz, but i am seddled at around 403 Hz momentarily, not to hurt or destroy my luth cause of tension!!! And save the thin strings from getting 'done' too early ... In concerts i See the clavichord beeing retuned a lot between Sets... its too very sensitiv to moisture and Temperatur. My guess it would stay much longer in tune and being not so metallic by tuning Down some Hz.... Cheers
I wonder if the lautenwercks made today use actual gut strings. My impression is that everything today is nylon. But since these instruments are so special, I can see the makers wanting to use gut strings in order to have as much authenticity as possible.
Most of harp strings are made of gut (only low register are wire and high register are mainly nylon). I don't think it would be impossible to use gut on lautenwercks.
I thought I made that pretty clear. The Houben lautenwerk I am playing on the video is strung in actual gut. My wife, Gwendolyn Toth, and I also own a lautenwerk, made by Willard Martin. Our Martin lautenwerk also is completely in gut strings. Most of the Martin lautenwerks were strung in Nylgut because string breakage is a BIG problem on lautenwerks with real gut strings, but we think real gut sounds distinctly better.
I do believe it was an 18th century German attempt at humor. I'm pretty sure the instrument was only described, and never built. The "maker" of such an instrument surely would die of Kat Scratch Fever!
Since I made the recording, I know. There is only a very tiny bit of added reverb. The room was made for recording, and had just about enough "ring" as it needed naturally.
Very nice sound and playing. What do you think of the following phrasing: take the two as upbeat to the three (which was quite usual in that time) so that the notes are not so even. If you do this in the counterpoints (in double tempo) its thrilling. Listen to maestro Georg Lawall on guitar th-cam.com/video/s9rJ-DK2V3Y/w-d-xo.html at minute 5 .40 When Bach imitated the Lute, he is imitating the keys.
![ปฏิเสธไม่ไหว (Crush on you) - LIPTA feat. No One Else [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NBw1jF342vw/mqdefault.jpg)
Fascinating! This instrument removes much of the top-end "harshness" that one might perceive in a harpsichord. Very warm and full!
Shin said that Bach did not compose anything directly for the lute and only for lute-like keyboard instruments like the lautenwerck. However, Bach had a relationship with Sylvius Leopold Weiss. Weiss was the last great lutenist. So some of Bach's compositions could have been written for Weiss.
Bach and Weiss were said to have competed in improvisation, as the following account by Johann Friedrich Reichardt describes:
"Anyone who knows how difficult it is to play harmonic modulations and good counterpoint on the lute will be surprised and full of disbelief to hear from eyewitnesses that Weiss, the great lutenist, challenged J.S. Bach, the great harpsichordist and organist, at playing fantasies and fugues."
Thank you for this interesting discussion about the lautenwerck, it’s a mysterious instrument indeed! Guitarists know about this instrument and about these works (the so-called “lute suites” and the Prelude, Fugue and Allegro) very well. It’s very cool to hear them performed on the lautenwerck, though.
I listened to the interview on NPR this morning (3/25/21) and the host said that nowadays you can only hear them performed on the harpsichord, which I believe is a mistake. Traditionally they have been performed a lot more by guitarists than even lutenists, especially for the last 100 years or so, since Segovia started playing individual dances from BWV 996. These works have been an integral part of the guitarist’s repertoire for decades.
Thanks again for this great video, your performance was beautiful!
They don't have any extant models. They're all repros.
What a perfect way to spend a snowy day discovering this bizarrely beautiful sounding instrument. Thank you Dongsok for a compelling performance and clear, yet erudite explanation.
If you like this google the theorbo. I'll post me doing some pieces if you can't find one.
What a piece! I loved the talk and performance. Beautiful instrument. Nothing hits as hard as Bach.
Yes, so true!! Nothing
Thank you, Mr. Shin, for your informative presentation and lovely performance on the lautenwerck! I have always enjoyed these pieces as transcribed for classical guitar. The lautenwerck has a warm tone that is a pleasure to listen to.
This is wonderful, and I'm so glad to find it. Thank you for sharing it with us.
I want one! I love the theorbo, and as a keyboard player, this is like a theorbo I could play without having to learn a totally different instrument.
It seems possible that he wrote these pieces not entirely understanding how the math of the lute fingerboard works (being a keyboard player). In the end it seems to have worked out anyway, because people found a way to play it.
Beautiful playing....limpid and sensitive to the structure and harmonies...Thank you Dongsok!
Dear Sir Shin, your playing is exquite from the introduction to the presentation, in short, examplary, thank you very much, indeed.
this is gorgeous sounding
What a delightful surprise with my morning coffee.
Dare I say, in the world of keyboards I like the Bob James approach to keyboard. Use what you got. One could layer a harpsichord preset with a lute preset with some attack adjustments and still be in the ballpark. "Learn from the past, participate in the present, and welcome the future" is what I was taught at music school.
@@Frederer59 I accept your philosophical opinion about this. However, for myself, I beg to differ. For one thing, it ISN'T always 100% about the sound of the instrument(s). For me, 50% of the pleasure of playing these instruments is the feel of them under the fingers. All the various harpsichords and lautenwerks and early pianos that I play have different feels and necessitate different approaches. So NO electronic substitute will work for me (though there was a time many years ago that I thought it could!).
Wonderful introduction and splendid performance. Thank hyou!
Wow, that instrument has a gorgeous sound!
Dear DS
More lecture demos please
Really enjoyed hearing/seeing you.
Thank you Fred R for presenting.
Wkr Murphy
Absolutely wonderful presentation and performance! Congratulations and thank you for sharing it. My first thought after enjoying the beautiful sound is what a tuning nightmare it must present. I find it interesting enough with 5 gut strings on my cello . . .
This one is pretty easy to tune and stable.
This is just so wonderful . . . in every way. Thank you!
one of my favorite pieces
There were more types of lutes than hot diners around at that time. Peter Croton has performed the "lute" works on Italian lute (as used in Germany during this time) without any modifications and in the original keys.
This sounds so much cooler than a piano
Having struggled with this lute work for many years on lute and guitar, maybe I should make myself a lute harpsicord. Great performance !
Thank you, Maestro, for a very informative video
That's amazing sound and playing! I'd never heard of this instrument until today.
Fantasitc! It would be fun to hear some of Scarlatti's peices in this "timbre".
How b e a u t i f u l ! Thank you so much for this upload!
Awesome! Thank you for sharing this wonderful music with such beautiful sonority! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thank you for your presentation and very pleasant performance. I believe that I would enjoy it even more if "flavored" with the judicious addition of optional ornaments. See, for example, "Ornamentation In J S Bach S Organ Works", by Putnam Aldrich
Nice discussion. Great instrument.
Bravo!
Wow. What an interesting instrument!
Wonderful. Thanks!
Very interesting, and what a lovely instrument. I have a clavichord and find compositions for lutes fit nicely.
This is fantastic!!
Muy interesante además de bellísimo. Gracias
this brings tears to my eyes actually. I have been listening to the Sarkozy recording for years - the Sarkozy instrument was conceived along completely different lines - 16, 2X8, in gut, 4' in steel or so. This is 2X8 with actually lute inspired scalings., man..... We'll be in touch. I'm mostly done with FB, but I will find you. Cheers. Keep up the good work.
I'm at dongsokshin at gmail if you wish to write!
@@dongsoks Sir, I'm 54 years old; this whole digitilision isn't particularly going down well with me. I'm at Ambyerstraat Noord 95 6225 EC Maastricht The Netherlands
Building an instrument takes months and months; wtf the young ones of these days expect an answer within a second. Why rush to grow old? Peace be with you.
@@paulnijsten6360 I'm 61 years old!
Great content! I LOVE this instrument!!!
Beauty beyond description played with feeling and utter mastery!
Theorbenflugel, Fleischer specs?
I wish the performer'would have demonstrated the individual tonal elements of this instrument rather than just talking about them.
Hearing the Gut and Brass Strings separately and together along with the Upper/Lower Manual differences, Buff Action, Etc. would have improved the presentation.
I would have, if I owned the instrument. But unfortunately, I don't. And it was in Wyoming, while I was at home in New York City when I made the talk part of the video...
I wish to second Marsha P's comment here. Notable also, that you simply sit at the instrument and play, without excessive body movements and gurning your face into strange contortions that some performers feel adds to the emotional value of the music!
So you are telling me that i can make the lute sound with the piano playing technique. I would definitely immerse myself if i have that instrument.
A stunningly vibrant, well-paced performance. But also a stunning instrument and recording. It's almost like reverb was added. As if this was enhanced in the studio? Or maybe it was? // I personally ALWAYS add reverb and delay to my piano recordings.
Mr. Dongshok, this sounds lower than A432 (my home tuning). I'm guessing this is in A415Hz?
Wonderful performance and the beautiful sound of the lautenwerck is pure heaven. But I can’t help feeling how strange it is to be playing on the insides of animals. What if aliens enslaved humans and used our guts for instruments for joyful sounds. I would love to know if Nylagut or synthetic strings that emulate gut are made in all gauges needed for the Lautenwerck. If this can be done, we can soar to new heights with the revival of this incredible instrument, without the guilt. What do you think? Thanks!
Ambiance supreme!
Great performance and amazing tone! However, I would be able to tell that this is not played on a lute. The sound that's created when a hand plucks a string is different than when it's done with an instrument's plectrum.
Lovely sound. But are the strings on modern Lautenwercks actually gut, or are they nylon? It seems to me that gut strings wouldn't hold their turning for more than one performance. Tuning that thing repeatedly and often with so many strings would be horribly inconvenient compared to, say, a lute with just six strings. That may explain why the Lautenwerck declined while the harpsichord survived to this day.
If you take a tuning wich is not too high and too much tension for the strings, it will keep in tune quite a while.... my luth has 24 strings/ 13 course.
With actual gut nowadays, cause i couldnt stand that plastic no more, and wanted to be historical. Ordered strings 415 Hz, but i am seddled at around 403 Hz momentarily, not to hurt or destroy my luth cause of tension!!! And save the thin strings from getting 'done' too early ...
In concerts i See the clavichord beeing retuned a lot between Sets... its too very sensitiv to moisture and Temperatur. My guess it would stay much longer in tune and being not so metallic by tuning Down some Hz....
Cheers
5:20 on lute sonatas
Tell us more about the Katsenburk! (how do you spell it?)
In German it should be Katzenwerk
Katzenwerk, as mentioned by Matthias. Also, I think it was an attempt at a joke by the writer!
Sounds even better on a real lute! 🙂
We can agree to disagree! ;-)
Here's a beautiful performance on a baroque lute: th-cam.com/video/VEoOToX_PuE/w-d-xo.html
I wonder if the lautenwercks made today use actual gut strings. My impression is that everything today is nylon. But since these instruments are so special, I can see the makers wanting to use gut strings in order to have as much authenticity as possible.
Most of harp strings are made of gut (only low register are wire and high register are mainly nylon). I don't think it would be impossible to use gut on lautenwercks.
He says in his talk that much of the instrument’s strings you are hearing is gut.
I thought I made that pretty clear. The Houben lautenwerk I am playing on the video is strung in actual gut. My wife, Gwendolyn Toth, and I also own a lautenwerk, made by Willard Martin. Our Martin lautenwerk also is completely in gut strings. Most of the Martin lautenwerks were strung in Nylgut because string breakage is a BIG problem on lautenwerks with real gut strings, but we think real gut sounds distinctly better.
@@dongsoks Thank you SO MUCH for this WONDERFUL video. I had never heard this instrument before. A million thanks!
👏
@02:03 -- Katzenwerk? So "The Torturer's Apprentice" in _The Adventures of Baron Munchausen_ wasn't so far-fetched after all . . . .
I do believe it was an 18th century German attempt at humor. I'm pretty sure the instrument was only described, and never built. The "maker" of such an instrument surely would die of Kat Scratch Fever!
😮
This sounds magnificent. Are you sure the recording isn't enhanced by artificial Room Reverb?
Since I made the recording, I know. There is only a very tiny bit of added reverb. The room was made for recording, and had just about enough "ring" as it needed naturally.
Very nice sound and playing. What do you think of the following phrasing: take the two as upbeat to the three (which was quite usual in that time) so that the notes are not so even. If you do this in the counterpoints (in double tempo) its thrilling. Listen to maestro Georg Lawall on guitar th-cam.com/video/s9rJ-DK2V3Y/w-d-xo.html at minute 5 .40
When Bach imitated the Lute, he is imitating the keys.
I see you switching manuals: is that notated or is that just a stylistic addition?
Braun Meadows
Great instrument and playing, shame about the composition.