How we memorize piano music
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
- Part 1 Why do we memorize?
1:28 changing trends in performing by memory
2:34 benefits of memorizing music
3:55 Why I require my students to memorize at a certain level
5:45 The reality of playing by memory for concert artists
6:22 Artur Schnabel’s big memory slip
7:52 The “moralistic” argument in favor of memory
9:45 The argument from “respect”
10:27 The rise of memory-the decline of improvisation!
11:01 taking the lead of Clara and Franz-maybe we can choose for ourselves?
12:45 Famous artists who have made the switch to using the score
14:38 Why do we really memorize?
Part 2
15:20 How to memorize
15:33 The number one key!
16:46 The two kinds of problems with memory
20:49 theoretical approaches
22:24 Example 1 Mozart K 545
24:14 Example 2 Rachmaninoff B-flat major prelude
27:59 In summation
Link to my video on music schools:
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I am also available for one-on-one online teaching. For a free consultation send me a message at: cole@independentpianist.com - เพลง
This is a reupload. There were problems with the sound and video that I missed the first time. Everything should run smoothly now though-thanks for your patience!
Thanks
Cole,
There’s virtually no way you would remember me but I was one of your group piano students at UMich when you were there for your doctorate (this would have been 2013-2014 school year.
I am now teaching piano and voice lessons and having a blast. Thanks for starting my journey on the keyboard!
Best,
-Sam P.
Hi Sam, of course I remember you! If I'm right, I think you were in my very first piano class. You were working on Bach preludes by the end of the semester as I recall. Glad to hear you are still using the piano to good effect!
@@TheIndependentPianist 💜💜💜
I struggled with memorization the entire time I was preparing to become a classical pianist. I memorized scores easily, but my memory faltered in performances. I would experience a lot of negative self-talk where I would question my ability as I was walking onto the stage or as I was playing. A re-evaluation of the need to perform from memory could certainly be beneficial to the world of classical music.
I couldn’t agree more. Thank you for sharing your experience.
I never came close to becoming a concert pianist, but I played for 15 years through college, took a few years off, then started back up again, and I don't think I've had a single recital since hitting puberty when I haven't had a memory slip, the kind where I have a sudden realization that I'm performing and my mind goes blank. I can't even remember what key I'm in. It's entirely a psychological issue, not a memory issue -- I typically would have a piece memorized to the point I could write it out note by note, without a piano or muscle memory to assist me, within a week or two of learning it, but in those moments of panic in front of an audience, I couldn't have told you my name. The problem compounded as with each performance, I expected to have a memory slip since I'd had one in the previous performance, and it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. I know that there is some way I can overcome this, but eventually I decided it wasn't worth the struggle. I was never going to become a concert pianist regardless of whether I could play from memory or not, and it was taking something that was an otherwise pleasurable activity and making it extremely stressful. For weeks before a performance, I would lay in bed at night visualizing every single note in the score, what finger I would be playing it with, and so on. I still memorize all my pieces, but when I play for others, I have the score there, and I flip the pages when it's convenient, knowing that I won't need to look at them; I only need the score when it's not there.
Very well put. For me, memorization isn't really a problem. I just kind of memorize as I go and its great but I always perform with the music. I know that I know the piece and I could play it with my eyes closed if I wanted to, but there's always that fear of suddenly forgetting something so I always have my music and then I don't even look at it 😅. Another thing is I will practice something and be able to play it perfectly.... until I have an audience. It's so irritating because every time it's some random mistake because of my nerves lol. I know with time and experience these things will improve. It's nice to hear it from someone else's point of view.
I think keeping extraneous thoughts out is one of the hardest things to do …
💥 The great jazz pianist Makoto Ozone also brought back the improvisation to the concert hall. You can listen to him playing Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue here on TH-cam with unbelievable improvisations. There are several recordings, but one of the best is with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Simply amazing ! 🎉❤
Cole, this is the 3rd time I’ve listened to your video. I just want to say your speech/teaching on the subject of memorization is far and above anything written down or on youtube. A true treasure for anyone seeking information on memorization - you even pull in many historical and self witnessed examples. Cheers.
Very good tips about memorizing music.We must remember that before Franz Liszt pianists played using music.Liszt made it fashionable to play from memory.Einstein said Why should i memorise anything if i have a pencil and paper!!!
A really fascinating presentation, Cole: thank you very much indeed! As is always the case, what you say is well informed, balanced, and most helpful and supportive. One area I would have been interested to hear you comment on is mind wandering - or 'decoupled attention', where we suddenly find ourselves focused inward on self-generated thought instead of fully concentrating on the task at hand - music performance. For me, such mental lapses tend to be more of a problem than mental slips. As I get to know a piece I am learning to the point that I have secure muscle memory of what fingers (and feet as an organist!) are doing, I am no longer really reading the score, even though it is in front of me. This is when I find that my mind can wander, making me like a sleepy driver, nodding off at the wheel, who suddenly wakes to find disaster barely averted! With my playing, I confess to having had plenty of music crashes! Of course, I try to be attentive to my inner state so that I recognize any lull and when sensing a wander occurring, I attempt to 'snap back' on course. I have read that students who have frequent lapses in performance typically establish lax mental habits in practice. So one additional tip you could have shared is that we should all remain fully alert in the practice room and ensure our mindful radar never goes on standby. If and when I am concentrating on playing from memory, I find that the added pressure of such a discipline leaves less room for any mind wandering. Mental slips are altogether different . . . especially with advancing year!
Pavé césar
Yes, a great point you raise here. This is something I often times go into with my students, and it is certainly something I have experienced as well. This kind of ties in to what I was saying about over preparing memory leading to mistakes. Often times we keep practicing without having a clear idea of why we are doing so. In my own experience, wandering attention is often times a sign of over practice, or practice that is not directed towards a musical endpoint. I was always struck by Fritz Kreisler remarking on how damaging he felt practicing was for the imagination! It was an extreme position, but it does make me think that often times we spend much more time at our instruments than is really ideal for developing the kind of focused, laser-like attention that we want. As always a delicate balance-enough practice, but not too much-what is the right balance? And further, when we do really need the extra practice (learning repertoire quickly for example), how do we shift our practicing methods to maintain freshness and real focus over longer periods? It's something I am constantly searching for in my own practicing.
Graham, I don't know if it will help, but if you can access a book entitled, "The Inner Game of Music" it may shed further light regarding your point. The whole book is interesting, but you may want to go directly to Chapter 4, "The Power of Awareness". Take note that this book is from the 80's, but I am not aware of other books that have approached this discussion much. Just a thought...
@@ericanthony8641 Thank you very much for the suggestion. As a consequence, I have just watched a fascinating video where the book is being discussed by 'April Clayton Flute Tube' and the points covered are most illuminating. So important (and challenging!) to know our own mind.
I have struggled all my life with poor self control and lack of patience.....I have learned a lot of pieces over the years but can barely remeber a single note of anything i ever played....mental blocks like you won't believe. so much music is in my head but not in my hands. really enjoyed this video
Interesting topic.
I can relate to the pressure of having it be a requirement to memorise music in the classical sphere. Currently a 2nd-year at my conservatory for classical Piano, all recitals - and even workshop performances - are required to be performed by memory. The exception is literally if you have some kind of learning disorder. Personally speaking, I have never particularly found any pride in memorising music; in fact, my whole life learning Piano music it has been more of a compensatory measure that I developed good musical memory because my sight-reading and ability to play with sheet music at all was always quite terrible, even to this day. This applies even to other styles of music, but especially classical repertoire.
We don't get a lot of time to learn our repertoire per semester as well, so that key factor of time allowing for effective memorisation is a hit-or-miss for those that don't have it come naturally. I know a lot of people who are studying with me who never performed without sheet music before going to the con. I don't like the hypocrisy I've noticed in the attitude surrounding it, as well. I think everyone should be able to play however they're most comfortable and confident. I've seen plenty of people even outside the classical sphere, more in the jazz avante-garde sphere, play with sheet music - I see no problem with that. It's honestly a blessing to be able to play without the score.
A very informative video, full of valuable advice. Thanks!
Excellent video, so glad I’ve found your channel!
Very useful information. Thank you very much.
Playing from memory is also a practice that originated in the 1800s, especially with Liszt. One can play equally well with the score (as is usually done in chamber music) with much less stress.
A great and informative talk Cole. I’ve been playing and teaching for almost 60 years. My teachers made me memorise all my exam pieces and I played well! I was forced to know them well.
The concept of memory playing is a pet subject of mine and I’m thinking of creating a you tube channel based on memory and performance.
During the pandemic I started learning Beethoven Sonata opus 2 number 1. I’ve played the first mouvement many hundreds of times…. With the music.. but… now I’m working on the memory process. I have realised I know hardly non of it by memory! I could get to the first 2 bars and that’s it. The music is a barrier between my playing and the music. Once I started THINKING about the notes and phrases and patterns etc and studying WHAT is going on etc, I have committed to my memory one page. This took a few hours. Lazy me over the last few years ( I have worked on it selecting fingerings and working separate hands etc) so the time is right for memorising. Already I’m able to play it more accurate and faster. Just playing by sight reading day after day months after month etc is a waste of time. We must study the music, read it and practice AWAY from the piano. We must work out and think about the patterns and keys and the sequences. We also must work in small sections . Great video Cole!
WOW! I've been there. I still have trouble. Your post was helpful to looking at practice in a very different way for me. It won't be easy but I need to do something different. Memorizing music has always been impossible for me. Muscle memory can only take you so far. Thanks. I was never taught anything like this in my teens.
Twenty five years ago I met and talked to Angela Hewitt about how she memorizes music. She emphasized learning the score away from the piano as much as possible. Fingerings too! She was delightful in every way. I think she has memorized the entire Bach output. I could be wrong but I heard that from Marc Andre Hamelin. He's amazing in his own right and a wonderful fellow. Thanks Cole.
Wow. Thank you. Your dedication is admirable. Fantastic information from a real pro. Thanks! Cheers
What an amazing point regarding playing from memory and the death of piano improvisation. That never occurred to me, but makes total sense! It's amazing how much I agree with so many of your POV's. I usually don't like that but I can't argue with my own closely held beliefs.
Your memory ideas will take some work. I have a long way to go but making me aware of these ideas are so helpful. WOW! Cole, you are exceptional!
I appreciated the discussion of the strengths and drawbacks to memorizing music.
Wonderful analysis
Another example for who almost always used score is Bartók. He knew all the compulsory conservatory repertoire by heart of course and in the classroom (No. 14 :) ) he really taught the WTC, the Mozart and Beethoven sonatas, Chopin preludes and etudes and the complete oevrue of Liszt and Debussy for example without using the score - BUT, he _always_ used the score when teaching his own compositions. He even took his eyeglasses on. On the stage, he mostly used score.
And how he used the score in the conservatory tells us why he did so: he just had many possible versions of his compositions in his head and the score helped him to recall which one he had written as "the final" version. And I think, regarding the other composers, he just had got used to this kind of recall support, and he started to use the score in the case of all other compositions, too. (Anyways, he played more and more chamber music AND his own compositions; and using the score was/is OK for chamber music, at least in Europe, than and now - I do not know the US custom.)
A drawback of this: when they emigrated to the US, he was planning to live from concerts, mostly two-piano concerts performed with his wife Ditta. But, being an introvert person in all aspects, and added the score and eyeglasses to this, he did not look like an adorable star, and the US publicum just did not recognize that he was among the greatest pianists of our century, and let him - almost literally - die of hunger in New York. (Just to tell this here: had he lived 5 days longer, he would have been literally homeless because the owner had broken their leasing contract on 16 September 1945.)
So - just my thoughts about advantages and disadvantages of playing with score...
Great video.
Trying to read sheet music was turture for me, I now learn by ear and knowing music theory to understand the piece I'm playing. You read the melody and chords in your head and find it on the piano. Looking at the piano watching the shapes of your hands helps you learn the piece and is vital to develop your ear to find the chords and melody. You can look at chords on paper or the computer while you remember the song, but you won't learn to hear the chords that way, you need to memorise the chords and look at your hands while playing them. Eventually, you start to hear the chord you need to play with the melody pattern you are playing.
All songs are just melody patterns over chord progessions. The harder thing is to remember the chord progessions, but the melody is almost atomatic with a lot of practice. I never think in terms of notes, only the interval pattern over chords 1 2 5 7 over Amin for example, this way, it is easy to see the patterns and transposition is also very easy because you don't need to change the melody numbers, only the chords. It might seem complicated at first, but life is much easier this way.
I have no choice, I MUST memorize everything I play due to poor eyes.
Regarding time: at university I was given a 32 page sontata and I had memorized the two largest movements in three months of summer. That winter for the performance in puvlik I had a huge nervous break fown. My teacher did not offer any help, but took it quite personally. I dont think I ever will get over that. I stopped playing for nearly 10 years.
I never had this happen before, and now I doubt myself.
Great video pls continue,thx
Thank you so much for this, especially for the second half where you address the issue of over-practicing. I often find myself falling into that trap of repeating what should be a technically simple passage or piece several hundred times out of fear that more memory slips will happen if I don’t. It’s reassuring to hear a pianist of your caliber correct this along with my realization that memory slips or mistakes in general are inevitable with unedited live performances. I would happily mix performing from memory with reading from the score now that bluetooth pedals that allow for convenient page turning are available. Unfortunately in my case I have no choice but to memorize everything, but I do my best as long as this incredible music is conveyed effectively.
Yes, it is a special situation in your case. I should probably have made it clearer that there are many approaches to learning and memorizing. Glenn Gould, Walter Gieseking, Zygmunt Stojowksi and Gina Bachauer all preferred learning (even memorizing) their music away from the piano, for example. And many artists prefer playing by memory-even with the risks involved. So there is definitely not only one correct way! I think we just need to find our own ideal method, based on our circumstances and our own talents. It's always best to keep our focus on the beauty of the music we play-that helps distract from focusing on our own feelings of inadequacy. That has helped me anyway.
🙏 I began by studying classical music in the conservatory. When I was very young, I had a fantastic memory. My reading was bad, I had to read very slow, almost bit by bit, but as long as I played a bar complete, it was in my memory. Currently, I'm 57, and I have played all kinds of music during my life, specially Jazz. So, with time, my reading became a lot better, but currently, I have great difficulty to memorize classical pieces. I can play around 60 Chopin's pieces, and some 20 Scriabin preludes, but I always need the sheet music in front of me. Without it, I can only remember the pieces I learned when I was very young, as some nocturnes and waltzes. No way I can memorize Scriabin. Even repeating and repeating, and playing correctly, looks like my brain is rewired to disable memory while reading. After I finish playing a piece, I can't remember even the first bar. Perhaps it's a problem in some circuits of my brain 🧠. 😮😮😮
It has to do with the way you are learning the pieces now. If you want to memorize it, play short parts at a time and aim to memorize them bit by bit. Look at your fingers´ placement on the piano, what sounds come when you play. Practice each hand separately. Then you will memorize the pieces as you did when you were a child. Start with easier pieces to get the hang of it again.
For me i sight read well but memorise with difficulty. My eyes are well connected to my fingers but my ears are not. I’m starting on really working to improve my memory. I’ve been learning Rach prelude op 23,no 4 in D so that’s what I’m trying to memorise. So far about 1/2 is (insecurely) in there - it’s mainly physical (not just finger) memory. I hope to work on the analysis in the coming weeks to improve my structural framework. You didn’t discuss aural - finger connection. I think this is important - I can sing the melody but only weakly know what keys to press. This I want to improve. Also, the structural analysis generates almost as many things to remember as just the notes. There must be a combination memory that uses simplified structural analysis with aural and physical memory filling in the details. Oscar Peterson thought only in shapes, his minimum unit was a phrase not a note 😎
💥 Although Franz Liszt could sight read everything, he said that when he wanted to learn a new piece of music, he would study it very slowly, bar by bar, paying much attention, and absorbing each detail. Chopin also stated to one of his pupils that a piece is only ready to be presented on a concert, if the pianist could play it perfectly by memory, in complete dark. 🎉❤
Great video!! Bring back improvisation!!
I enjoyed this video very much. I remember Jean Pierre Rampal once said something to the effect that playing in concert from memory is good if you have a knack for it (paraphrase), but not so much if you have a problem with doing it. If the performance is far better with the music being there, I would say use it.
It was really an interesting experience to me to begin piano classes and learn that memorizing pieces was something people admired. I had 0 musical trainning growing up but picked up piano by my own bc my dad had a piano.
With youtube and synthesia videos (lol) i learned and would memorize the pieces, it made me feel so ashamed that i couldnt figure out how to read music. The diversity in enpreiences in the music world makes me feel so happy! I want to interact more with the music community, it's wonderful to hear different opinions and stories
What a wonderful video this was :], glad to have seen it in my recommendeds
Thanks so much for sharing your experience! Everyone has their own path to follow, and no shame at all if you end up using unusual methods. I hope you giving reading music a try again as well-it's helpful to have as a skill.
@@TheIndependentPianist i am! its the main reason i decided to take classes :], i'm enjoying it alot, it's simply wonderful
Thanks, Cole for a wonderfully insightful presentation. I am an older pianist who suffered for years with memory issues, yet I was fortunate to get degrees from some of our country's finest music institutions. As I continued to learn more repertoire after formal schooling , I have come to agree with the you and the approach you outlined in this presentation. Now as I teach beginners of all ages, I use this method from the beginning as the student is learning the piece so that memorization is not so much a separate step, but it is how the student initially learns and practices the piece. Like you, I am aware that there are other thoughtful and helpful discussions on kinds of memory (tactile/physical, aural, visual etc.), but I have started to gravitate primarily toward the analytical method you discussed here and to use the other memory types secondarily. (BTW: If you have not discussed polyrhythms I would be very interested to hear your thoughts. I'm considering learning "Reflets dan l'eau or other pieces of the same rhythmic type.)
Thanks Eric-great idea for another video! Polyrhythms and other difficulties of coordination.
The one advantage of memorization is that it eliminates problematic page turns, the score falling onto the keys, the score trying to close in the middle of a piece, etc. Those are things we deal with in the organ world (where we often need scores for registrants if nothing else).
The organ is a whole other world. I never cease to be amazed by what you guys have to handle-and then piling memory on top as well!
@TheIndependentPianist Getting the right touch is more difficult on piano. Piano also gets larger leaps (it's hard to do large leaps on the organ when you don't have a sustain pedal).
I knew it.... Time and stress made me forget some things
to add to your perahia anecdote, my teacher attended a similar type of event where he revealed that he doesn’t perform music unless he’s spent at least a year with it
Awesome
Meorizing is always hard for me because even though I can play something from memory, I tend to get very stressed during exams, play without any confidence, just focus on hitting the right notes and constantly question my memory. I see no point in forcing me to memorize as it makes me 10x more nervous before an exam and I don't want to be a professional musician anyway, I play the piano as a hobby.
In case of Richter it was his fear of missing objective Details, he said in that famous doku by Bruno M. - - -
Hi, thanks for the really, really intresting video! I have a question: ok, i can do the harmonic and formal analysis of the piece, but then i have to memorize the analysis. it's not like after doing it i magically remember it. So how does this approach not just shift the problem, instead of solving it?
I guess I would answer this by saying that memorizing itself is not really the problem, it's rather what you are trying to memorize that creates problems. If you are memorizing thousands of individual notes and chords, divorced from context, then it becomes a very bewildering process, and you have to over rely on muscle memory. When you see everything in context, then you are memorizing one much larger structure, which subsumes all the constituent notes. I am reminded of a comment Mozart made-I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something about being able to "see" an entire composition in one moment, where all aspects come together in the musician's mind as a single object. That's kind of the way I feel about it as well. When everything fits into place in a larger structure, the actual process of memorizing is simple, and is just a matter of time and familiarity. It's only when the logical process is a little fuzzy that we end up having to force ourselves to memorize, and it feels very difficult.
Of course, there is no magic trick to memorize. Even if you understand everything, you still need to put in the time to become familiar with the music... But ideally it should be a natural and painless process.
Great tutorial ,thank you .
I enjoyed this presentation and appreciate your making it. But I must admit that once you launched into a theoretical analysis of those few phrases from the Rachmaninoff B flat Major Prelude, my brain immediately fogged over! I believe it'd be much easier for me to simply build in physical memory by repeating the passage rather than trying to keep in mind the progression of chord names, their inversions, phrase lengths, etc.! That feels like making the memorization process even more complicated! Though I gather that it helps many pianists--and I am just an amateur pianist with (thankfully!) no obligation to memorize anything--all that theoretical "decoding" just adds an additional difficulty for the likes of yours truly. Also, with monster chord passages like the one you chose to "decipher," it seems to me that your hands have to learn to deal with all those notes and become accustomed to "handling" them. Though I gather there are some pianists who can just mentally "scan" a score and then sit down at the piano and play it. I have also heard that those who tend to be good sight readers aren't so comfortable with memorizing. I'm in that "camp," for better or worse! I remember reading that when Richter was asked what advice he might have for young pianists, he advised them to use the music when performing. Doing so, he said, allows musicians to enjoy a far greater number of pieces over the years. Makes sense to me! Most of all, though, no doubt that the fear of having a memory lapse is crippling for many pianists and can easily mar their performances. So if using the scores makes pianists more comfortable and more able to concentrate on "making music" as opposed to "just getting through without any disastrous memory gaps," then using the scores makes more sense. Marc-Andre Hamelin said that feels that score use in performance somehow takes away from the overall performance. Maybe because a score-using pianist might seem less "magical" and almighty. Just the same, my vote is for doing whatever helps pianists feel the most confident about their performances.
Speaking of Richter, I saw him in a performance given at the Tokyo Bunka Kaikan in either 1983 or 1984. He used the scores for his recital, and although that was unusual at the time, it didn't bother me at all. But I was hoping that the great Russian musical "bear" would be offering up some titanic slabs of Russian Romantic fare, but instead he played a book of Debussy Preludes, of all things! And a Szymanowski something-or-another I can't recall. I wish I could say I was thrilled by the recital, but I can't remember anything about the quality of Richter's playing at the time.
Yes, well it will seem intimidating applied to the Rachmaninoff, if that is the first thing you are looking at! That was why I used the Mozart K 545-you can see the outline of the idea first. I only went into great detail for the sake of explication. The process is much more instinctive once you are very familiar with all if the chords and inversions-you start to just “see” the patterns as you practice, and having that knowledge in the back of your head makes the learning process 10x faster. You do need to do this consciously first, but with much simpler music! It might seem harder, but trust me, if you invest a little bit of time each day learning to think this way, the dividends are huge down the road!
Fascinating stuff about Richter also. I totally agree with him about using the score. Too bad that you didn’t catch him on a good day-he had some ups and downs those last few years.
When I saw RIchter, I wasn't very familiar with the Debussy Preludes, so I wasn't able to enjoy the music as much as I would have otherwise. The Szymanowski piece(s?) was no doubt just a bit too sophisticated for my ears at the time and I probably would have had to have heard the piece(s?) a few times in order to be able to appreciate it(them?). Then again, it's possible that the Szymanowski just wasn't my musical cup of tea. I wish to goodness that I had gotten something out of that recital, but I wasn't far enough into Debussy at the time. All in all, though, if it had to be a book of preludes, I would have preferred it be a book of Rachmaninoff Preludes. My dad had an LP many years ago of Richter playing both books of Rachmaninoff Preludes, and that was a treat for the ears and heart!
My main problem with regard to memorizing is that I am, in a word, lazy! Also, I have found that when I have put in the time necessary to memorize something, by the time I've finally memorized a given piece, I'm sick of it and no longer want to play it. "Okay, I memorized it. Great. Now I can put the blasted thing away and be done with it!" My other "problem" is that I have spent so many happy hours at the piano sightreading that I am--for an ungifted amateur--a pretty good sightreader, or at least of non-virtuosic music. And I get so much pleasure so quickly at the piano in sightreading that I don't feel any great motivation to memorize pieces. I join two amateur piano festivals in Japan twice a year in spring, and I play a 5-minute piece in one of the festivals and an 8-minute piece in the other. I do make an effort to know the music well at the piano for those two recital efforts, but I do use the music. I do feel slightly ashamed about that since almost all of the other participants don't use music when they perform. But I'm already so intensely nervous before and during performance that there's no way I could heap yet more nervousness on top of myself by not using the score and having to worry about memory lapses in additioon to everything else.
I admire you for being able to use your theoretical understanding of music to aid in your memorization. I doubt it's something I could do. I'm not that industrious a person--see former "lazy" self-reference. I believe some pianists have photographic memory and can just look at a page of music and remember it/"scan" it in an instant. That must be wonderful! You must be very energetic to spend so much time analyzing the scores that you play. I would be very glad to have that kind of brain and energy/ambition!
By the way, I love your piano introduction to your videos! What is it? It sounds a bit like Gershwin's "Someone To Watch Over Me." @@TheIndependentPianist
@@Radiatoron88 I think playing from the score is a great idea, and nothing to be ashamed of! I actually meant that this approach to thinking about harmony and structure will just generally help to learn pieces faster, retain them better and aid a deeper interpretation-whether or not you want to actually play them by memory. In general I’m rather against conscious memorization, which, as you mentioned, is kind of a chore. Rather I think we should simply try to understand the music. Then we will automatically learn them by heart over time. This also does help with the occasional passage which must be memorized-for instance it isn’t possible to play that one “monster” Rachmaninoff passage while looking at the music (at least not for me). I totally sympathize with the score-readers approach, since that is my own as well, and I much prefer having the score in performance. I think Richter was quite right to say that we give a much more musically meaningful interpretation when the score is there.
So I guess I’m saying to continue what you are doing! It sounds like a good system. I do think reflecting on harmony can help you feel like you know the piece better and thereby reduce nerves however. :-)
What you wrote makes perfect sense. As just an amateur "home hobby pianist" I'm always just dazzled when pianists start getting into theoretical breakdowns of scores. My relationship with music is simpler, and I guess I'm a simple person. I've never been naturally drawn to dissecting music or to thinking about music's "architecture." But when I watch videos like yours, I can see that there is a lot to be gained from formal analysis. Or, to be honest, at least I sense that the musicians dissecting a score seem to get a lot out of their analyses. I'd have to know more about music theory in order to get more out of it though. I suppose that "dissection" of art doesn't appeal to me because a given art work itself is so beautiful that I don't want to take away its magic by taking it apart. Mostly no doubt just sheer laziness on my part! I would love to have your greater insights!
You are right that it isn't possible to literally "read" scores during performances--or at least not difficult passages--so the scores are really just there as a reference and to keep us from getting totally derailed in mid-performance. It's a given that we have to have memorized the hardest parts of pieces that we perform. I didn't know that Richter said that we give a much more musically meaningful interpretation when have the scores in front of us. That makes sense to me though since having the music allows us to focus more on the music itself and not on "ego issues" of trying not to have a memory lapse and feel foolish and trying to impress, etc. And also because I think there's an inherent modesty in using the score, as if saying to audiences, "the music is what's most important."
By the way, I'm really curious to know what that opening bit of piano music is in your videos. Obviously, please don't feel obliged to tell me if you prefer to keep it a mystery. I'm just curious. It's very beautiful, and it echoes "Someone To Watch Over Me." Cancel that last request! Looking into some of your other videos, it seems that it is "Music in the intro is Earl Wild’s Etude no. 1 after George Gershwin’s “Liza." Really beautiful!
@@TheIndependentPianist
I think teachers shy away from pressuring students to memorize because they don't want to lose them. The teacher should ask at the outset, Do you want to memorize this music? If the student says No, then it's not a problem. If Yes, the student should play the sections of the piece quite under-tempo a number of times, and then move to memorisation, before they can play them at tempo. This process will take time but at the end of it, much of the piece may be playable at tempo, and the student will "own" the piece and have the score embedded in his/her mind. To memorize just before performance is NOT good: it takes a while to embed the score, levels and levels of comfort. Of course you can be a fine musician and not have to memorize a note, as with chamber musicians, orchestral musicians, and "accompanists". It's a choice.
My technique to memorize is to play sections of the music with eyes closed and play by feel. Once you're good at this, play the entire music and then play with your eyes closed and muscle memory.
At 21:20, you say to know all major and minor scales and chords like the back of your hand. How should I practice to get to this state of knowing them? How will I know I "know" them?
21:19 that was the fastest hairdresser‘s visit I‘ve ever witnessed 😂
What’s your jawline workout routine bro
in my experience, i'm absolutely awful at sight-reading. i can't recognize the notes and rhythms fast enough. i learned piano as a kid, quit because i hated practicing, then found it again through synthesizer youtube tutorials, thats how i learned how to play clair de lune! my favorite way to play pieces is by memory-- once i KNOW the piece, i can play it perfectly, and continue to improve the character of the piece rather than working on the correct notes or rhythm if i were reading the music.
Thanks for your perspective! I hate to play devil's advocate... but I have found that when people learn from tutorials exclusively, rather than at least supplementing with the sheet music, sometimes errors can creep in. But it's still a good way to learn things of course. I feel like the more well rounded one can be about methods, the better. Just my two cents-do what you enjoy and what works of course! Thanks again for commenting!
@@TheIndependentPianist i totally agree! if i were better at sight-reading, i definitely think i wouldn't make as many mistakes as i do! thanks for the insight!
What I don't understand about the standard of memorization is that it is a relatively recent practice. Historically no one memorized anything except for concertos or the performer's own compositions before the time of Clara Schumann and Liszt. If you played from memory in the time of Chopin, for example, it was assumed that it was your own improvisation and if it wasn't it was seen as the equivalent of plagiarism.
Just curious: given that time is one of the most critical components to cementing memory for a piece, How did you Commit pieces so rapidly to memory when you were in conservatory? It takes me three months to commit a Schubert sonata movement to memory and that’s just getting the piece into my fingers. I am about five years into my piano studies, is it because by the time you were in conservatory you had been playing for at least 12 years? Or is it because my three hours a day of practice learning multiple pieces simply not enough? Or am I simply trash? Lol
Good questions! You are definitely not trash. Unfortunately memory is one of the most mysterious elements related to piano playing (it's already mysterious in other places in life as well). I'm not sure to what extent memorizing well has to do with years spent studying. I think being able to memorize quickly mostly has to do with instinctive understanding of harmony and structure and the ability to find patterns efficiently. Granted, what I and many others do when memorizing quickly feels quite uncomfortable. You don't feel very secure in performance, even if you do in fact get through things unscathed most of the time. Over time your confidence can become eroded and you find yourself having more and more memory errors in performance.
My question is: why should it matter how quickly we memorize? Although it is wonderful to know our music by heart and to have it with us always, why should that ever be a matter of such importance that we end up sabotaging ourselves? At any rate, I think the real key to memory (besides what I already stated) is careful attention. I think careful, mindful attention to all the musical elements of a piece of music is what really leads to secure memory-at whatever pace is right for you!
Ill take you
I think it's a matter of personal pride/benchmarking yourself against "real talent". Would love to get a consultation from you at some point to see "where I should be" given my experience level
@@zfierstadt Of course, feel free to email me sometime if that interests you cole@independentpianist.com
Regarding improvisation, you neglected to mention Cyprien Katsaris.
if Richter can do it...
We are just too lazy to read notes every time
Haha, how interesting! Could you expand on what you mean?
mmmnmnnn
spoken like a true citizen of Seattle. next it will be ok to just not even have competitions, or just drop out like Simon Biles.
Oh I'd be fine if piano competitions disappeared forever. I really detest the artificially exaggerated "playing to the galleries" style they encourage (everyone trying to play faster, or look more expressive and interesting than everyone else), the way the winners so often have to satisfy as broad a range of judges as possible, by avoiding true risk taking. The mistaken correlation between artistic endeavor and athletic competition is a very great evil, in the music world at the very least. As Bartok said: "Competitions are for horses, not artists!"
I also can't account for the underhand jab at Seattle. It's a lovely city, with a thriving cultural life. Maybe some personal prejudices are clouding your view of it? I won't even bother addressing the Simone Biles thing-but I will say, that the moralistic tone of your comment plays into exactly the stereotype of the "my way or the highway" rigid conservatory approach that I mention in the video. I've had enough of that kind of nonsense in my life, and I won't sit quietly for it anymore!
@@TheIndependentPianist one doesn't HAVE to compete. If the pressure is too much for you or doesnt suit your temperament then, please, just put on concerts with your scores open in Lumen Field. I'm more worried that Seattle has influenced more than your music. Seattle is a dumpster fire. The city is trash. And as for Simon, she can quit as many events as she wants. I just don't want to hear her called an athletic competitor. Maybe she can start a hobby group for gymnasts who lack the follow-through. It can be held in Seattle right next to the non-competitive concerto competition where everyone gets rewarded not for merit, but attendance.
@@Felipe-js1wl Why all this talk about Seattle? Just because I had a teacher based in Seattle? I'm not actually from Seatlle-not that it matters anyway! Calling Seattle a dumpster fire, or trash, is just name-calling: a non-specific way of venting your prejudice. It doesn't mean anything. Also it is Simone, not Simon. Simone Biles in no way connects to my points about memory. Do you have anything at all concrete or constructive to offer?
You are quite right-one doesn't have to compete. Unfortunately most young musicians feel a great deal of pressure to take part in competitions, which ultimately seem to do much more harm than good, from an artistic standpoint. This is a matter of perspective of course, so our viewpoints may differ-but I haven't heard you offer any basis for your (seeming) preference for competitions. Do you have any basis for this view?